View Full Version : 56yr Old Woman shoots and kills intruder. Audio
mrnbcox
12-05-2009, 12:30 AM
Wow. Poor lady! listen to the live audio of the 911 call here: http://www.newsok.com/multimedia/video/54313835001
Justin
12-05-2009, 06:57 AM
Wild. I wonder if he thought that was his house, but was to drunk to realize it wasn't... he was calling for Pat?
Digging4Truth
12-05-2009, 07:18 AM
I wept for her situation at the end. It was a terrible situation to be put in and no matter how warranted one may feel their actions are there is still the terrible feeling that you have taken a human life.
On another note... I feel that it was TERRIBLY irresponsible to post this audio with her address, where she hides her key to the house, her sons name & phone number as well as where her husbands work place still intact.
That data should have been removed from the audio.
Jeffrey
12-05-2009, 11:25 AM
So sad.
Sounds like his daughter (?) was passed out in a vehicle in a ditch in the road, he was trying to get help, while being in a drunken stupor. It's easy to second-guess the frightened woman who was home alone, and say she should have shot at knee caps, etc... (my first reaction), but she has no idea what the circumstances are. This is a tragedy in many ways.
tstew
12-05-2009, 11:59 AM
Man that is tough. It seems that it took the officers a long time to respond considering the nature of the call. I wonder if they were in a very rural place.
I feel bad for the lady. I wonder, though, if it might have been a good idea to grab the shotgun and announce herself while he was still outside once she saw he was a drunk older man.
Digging4Truth
12-05-2009, 12:18 PM
Man that is tough. It seems that it took the officers a long time to respond considering the nature of the call. I wonder if they were in a very rural place.
I feel bad for the lady. I wonder, though, if it might have been a good idea to grab the shotgun and announce herself while he was still outside once she saw he was a drunk older man.
Yeah... a warning shot would have been a good idea. Especially since she would not have to reload to get off another shot. But... I'm not second guessing her though. Hindsight is 20/20 and the heat of the moment is a tough place to make decisions like that. (Do I remember her saying early on that he had a gun? I'm not sure...)
From the call it seemed as though she may have been in a rural area. There is no way of knowing from the recording but it seemed that way.
She has goats and large dogs to guard them.
Her only neighbors were elderly (80 years or so old)
They sent the county deputy (that is often the case in unincorporated areas.)
Several things left that impression with me.
mrnbcox
12-05-2009, 12:23 PM
Dude, a 56yr woman awakened by a man banging on her door and then busting through. She is not thinking anything about reasoning, she is trying to survive.
It's a major tragedy, but I don't know that I would have done different. You never know how you will react in those situations
Digging4Truth
12-05-2009, 12:33 PM
Dude, a 56yr woman awakened by a man banging on her door and then busting through. She is not thinking anything about reasoning, she is trying to survive.
It's a major tragedy, but I don't know that I would have done different. You never know how you will react in those situations
Absolutely.
That is what I was saying.
tstew
12-05-2009, 02:17 PM
Dude, a 56yr woman awakened by a man banging on her door and then busting through. She is not thinking anything about reasoning, she is trying to survive.
It's a major tragedy, but I don't know that I would have done different. You never know how you will react in those situations
I'm not trying to fault her, I was just wondering what the pros and cons would have been for announcing to him that she was armed and on the phone with the police. Honestly she did not strike me as a frightened, rattled woman. She was remarkably level headed throughout. It was also not like she woke up and had a man standing over her and did not have time to react, think, or gain the upper hand. It may simply be different for me as a younger man and she as an older woman though.
MissBrattified
12-05-2009, 02:36 PM
I wept for her situation at the end. It was a terrible situation to be put in and no matter how warranted one may feel their actions are there is still the terrible feeling that you have taken a human life.
On another note... I feel that it was TERRIBLY irresponsible to post this audio with her address, where she hides her key to the house, her sons name & phone number as well as where her husbands work place still intact.
That data should have been removed from the audio.
I completely agree.
That audio was heart breaking.
I do think that it might have been advisable to try to hide, to give the police more time to get there and deal with it, and/or to announce loudly that she had a gun and would shoot if he came on in. Our pastor's son frightened an intruder away by letting him know he had a gun....it seems like the police or the dispatcher might have suggested something of that sort.
:(
Truthseeker
12-05-2009, 02:37 PM
I'm not trying to fault her, I was just wondering what the pros and cons would have been for announcing to him that she was armed and on the phone with the police. Honestly she did not strike me as a frightened, rattled woman. She was remarkably level headed throughout. It was also not like she woke up and had a man standing over her and did not have time to react, think, or gain the upper hand. It may simply be different for me as a younger man and she as an older woman though.
let me add the 911 operator advised her that she has a right to protect her property. When the lady said she's going to have to kill/shoot the guy operator responded with i understand. Heaing this may give a person the feeling it's what she has to do.
There's some other options I could think of being an arm chair QB at this point, but lady was within her right to shoot the guy.
MissBrattified
12-05-2009, 02:42 PM
let me add the 911 operator advised her that she has a right to protect her property. When the lady said she's going to have to kill/shoot the guy operator responded with i understand. Heaing this may give a person the feeling it's what she has to do.
There's some other options I could think of being an arm chair QB at this point, but lady was within her right to shoot the guy.
Absolutely. Until it happens to you, you really don't know what you will do--you can only hope that you'll react in the best way possible.
Truthseeker
12-05-2009, 02:56 PM
Absolutely. Until it happens to you, you really don't know what you will do--you can only hope that you'll react in the best way possible.
Yep, and whether one agrees are not, she was lawfully right to shoot the guy.
Truthseeker
12-05-2009, 02:57 PM
I'm sure there's some liberal antigun tree huggin frog kissers out there that will condemn her.
RandyWayne
12-05-2009, 03:12 PM
I'm sure there's some liberal antigun tree huggin frog kissers out there that will condemn her.
There are some "liberal antigun tree huggin frog kissers" HERE who will condemn her.
Truthseeker
12-05-2009, 03:15 PM
There are some "liberal antigun tree huggin frog kissers" HERE who will condemn her.
who?
freeatlast
12-05-2009, 03:17 PM
who?
Benny Casa comes to mind..some others too.
pelathais
12-05-2009, 03:35 PM
I'm sure there's some liberal antigun tree huggin frog kissers out there that will condemn her.
"Frog kissers?"
Sweet Pea
12-05-2009, 05:47 PM
I wept for her situation at the end. It was a terrible situation to be put in and no matter how warranted one may feel their actions are there is still the terrible feeling that you have taken a human life.
On another note... I feel that it was TERRIBLY irresponsible to post this audio with her address, where she hides her key to the house, her sons name & phone number as well as where her husbands work place still intact.
That data should have been removed from the audio.
I agree with the bolded above - however, I don't fault the original poster. The fault lies with whatever news agency got ahold of it and posted it - as well as the law enforcement agency that released it without removing that info from the audio.. JMHO
Jeffrey
12-05-2009, 05:48 PM
Dude, a 56yr woman awakened by a man banging on her door and then busting through. She is not thinking anything about reasoning, she is trying to survive.
It's a major tragedy, but I don't know that I would have done different. You never know how you will react in those situations
She was quite calm before he actually broke in -- and considering, it took him about 5-10 minutes of pounding on the door and yelling a name she didn't recognize.
I understand she was probably petrified. But she knew what was about to go down. The woman on the phone could have helped a bit more.
"I'm going to have to kill him if he comes in."
"I understand..."
Depending on her experience with guns, she could have shot his legs, fired a warning shot, caulked the gun... a number of things. She could evidently see the guy since he walked all around her wrap-around porch. She suspected him of being drunk even.
All hindsight. But all these facts make the story more tragic.
Sweet Pea
12-05-2009, 05:49 PM
Absolutely. Until it happens to you, you really don't know what you will do--you can only hope that you'll react in the best way possible.
Agreed!
However, there IS something about hearing the pump of a shotgun that would deter most sane and/or sober people when breaking and entering ...... It appears that this man was not sober and who know if he was sane....
This is a heartbreaking incident - I pray that the lady is able to deal with the certain aftermath and mental anguish that will haunt her. She seemed so "together" in the beginning, but was really distraught at what happened. May the Prince of Peace touch her mind and heart!
Jeffrey
12-05-2009, 05:52 PM
I'm not a tree-hugger, but you can say I'm not a huge fan of Wild West culture. Hiding and letting the man take what he needed would have been better. She had a gun, she was safe. Had he discovered her -- game over. The operator made the situation worse by approving her frightened prospect of "i'll have to kill him."
At the same time, I'm not condemning her. We are all just playing armchair QB on this. It's tragic... who knows how each of us would react. This story would have been better had there been no loss of life. The man was likely drunk driving, and trying to help his passed out daughter who was nearby in a car. He was frantic.
Jeffrey
12-05-2009, 05:52 PM
Agreed!
However, there IS something about hearing the pump of a shotgun that would deter most sane and/or sober people when breaking and entering ...... It appears that this man was not sober and who know if he was sane....
This is a heartbreaking incident - I pray that the lady is able to deal with the certain aftermath and mental anguish that will haunt her. She seemed so "together" in the beginning, but was really distraught at what happened. May the Prince of Peace touch her mind and heart!
Yes, her emotions afterward were heartbreaking. "Father, forgive me... forgive me, Father..."
Sweet Pea
12-05-2009, 05:52 PM
She was quite calm before he actually broke in -- and considering, it took him about 5-10 minutes of pounding on the door and yelling a name she didn't recognize.
I understand she was probably petrified. But she knew what was about to go down. The woman on the phone could have helped a bit more.
"I'm going to have to kill him if he comes in."
"I understand..."
Depending on her experience with guns, she could have shot his legs, fired a warning shot, caulked the gun... a number of things. She could evidently see the guy since he walked all around her wrap-around porch. She suspected him of being drunk even.
All hindsight. But all these facts make the story more tragic.
She obviously was familiar enough with the shotgun to know that if she was forced to shoot - there wasn't going to be much chance of his survival (if at very close range)
Esther
12-05-2009, 05:53 PM
She was quite calm before he actually broke in -- and considering, it took him about 5-10 minutes of pounding on the door and yelling a name she didn't recognize.
I understand she was probably petrified. But she knew what was about to go down. The woman on the phone could have helped a bit more.
"I'm going to have to kill him if he comes in."
"I understand..."
Depending on her experience with guns, she could have shot his legs, fired a warning shot, caulked the gun... a number of things. She could evidently see the guy since he walked all around her wrap-around porch. She suspected him of being drunk even.
All hindsight. But all these facts make the story more tragic.
The sad thing about wounding someone they come back and sue you and you lose! It is rediculous but the way it is.
I have not listened to the tape, but if he was drunk, then he could have been out of control. Folks on drugs and some are mean drunks you can't mess around with.
Taking a life I would think would be a tragic thing to deal with.
Jeffrey
12-05-2009, 05:55 PM
The sad thing about wounding someone they come back and sue you and you lose! It is rediculous but the way it is.
I have not listened to the tape, but if he was drunk, then he could have been out of control. Folks on drugs and some are mean drunks you can't mess around with.
Taking a life I would think would be a tragic thing to deal with.
I'd much rather someone sue me than me deal with the pain of taking their life when I didn't have to.
Yes, he was drunk. From her perspective, he appeared belligerent, but as it turns out he was likely only frantic, and trying to get help. I've read a few other news stories on this.
I feel for the homeowner... she has to live with replaying all the things she could have done differently.
*AQuietPlace*
12-05-2009, 06:11 PM
I'm not a tree-hugger, but you can say I'm not a huge fan of Wild West culture. Hiding and letting the man take what he needed would have been better. She had a gun, she was safe. Had he discovered her -- game over. The operator made the situation worse by approving her frightened prospect of "i'll have to kill him."
Imagine what the backlash would have been if the operator had tried to talk her out of shooting him, and the intruder had harmed the woman.
Jeffrey
12-05-2009, 06:13 PM
Imagine what the backlash would have been if the operator had tried to talk her out of shooting him, and the intruder had harmed the woman.
True... with 20/20, and scrutiny, the woman had a good look at the man (and could have seen if he was armed), she recognized that he may be drunk. She has a shotgun. The likelihood of her being harmed in this situation is not great.
But yes, it's hard to see this as she saw it, since we have all the details.
Esther
12-05-2009, 07:46 PM
True... with 20/20, and scrutiny, the woman had a good look at the man (and could have seen if he was armed), she recognized that he may be drunk. She has a shotgun. The likelihood of her being harmed in this situation is not great.
But yes, it's hard to see this as she saw it, since we have all the details.
That is a huge assumption. Regardless if he had a weapon in hand or not, he could still have harmed her, even killed her with his bare hands. If he thought he was in his home and she was the intruder, he could have reacted differently, and felt he was defending his home, using whaterver was handy.
tstew
12-05-2009, 08:08 PM
I feel for the woman in this situation. All I was asking was whether it would have been good or bad to have said something while he was still outside unarmed and she was inside armed. If this were a case where she awoke to someone sneakily trying to break in, ramming a door, or climbing through a window, I say shoot first and shoot often. In this case he spent ten minutes knocking on various doors and windows and loudly calling for Pat. That would not strike me as the actions of a man initially looking to break-in.
She was reasonably calm and identified him as an older man while he was still outside. I'm just saying that in that situation I would probably have grabbed my gun and informed him that I was armed and the police were on the way and there was no Pat in my house.
But once again, I am allowing for the fact that I am a younger man and she is an older woman.
Jeffrey
12-05-2009, 08:19 PM
That is a huge assumption. Regardless if he had a weapon in hand or not, he could still have harmed her, even killed her with his bare hands. If he thought he was in his home and she was the intruder, he could have reacted differently, and felt he was defending his home, using whaterver was handy.
All I'm saying is... she had a shotgun for crying out loud. The squeeze of a trigger gave her the power to be assured the likelihood of her injury to be minimal.
Jeffrey
12-05-2009, 08:21 PM
I feel for the woman in this situation. All I was asking was whether it would have been good or bad to have said something while he was still outside unarmed and she was inside armed. If this were a case where she awoke to someone sneakily trying to break in, ramming a door, or climbing through a window, I say shoot first and shoot often. In this case he spent ten minutes knocking on various doors and windows and loudly calling for Pat. That would not strike me as the actions of a man initially looking to break-in.
She was reasonably calm and identified him as an older man while he was still outside. I'm just saying that in that situation I would probably have grabbed my gun and informed him that I was armed and the police were on the way and there was no Pat in my house.
But once again, I am allowing for the fact that I am a younger man and she is an older woman.
TStew, that's where I was going with it as well.
And your last statement is true. Though she sounded calm, I'm sure she was frightened to be left alone at dark with a drunk stranger trying to force himself in her home.
From what I understood of the call she did inform the intruder, when he started to break in and she put the phone down, that she had a gun and was on the phone with the police. He proceeded to break in with a patio chair and then the table. Those are the actions of a mad man and a few seconds of indecision could have caused her her life. Her son was a police officer and she knew quite a few of them asking for specific ones to come. I believe she had been trained in how to take care of herself in this type of situation. She had no desire to shoot the man and only did so when she felt she was left with no other choice.
tstew
12-05-2009, 08:56 PM
From what I understood of the call she did inform the intruder, when he started to break in and she put the phone down, that she had a gun and was on the phone with the police. He proceeded to break in with a patio chair and then the table. Those are the actions of a mad man and a few seconds of indecision could have caused her her life. Her son was a police officer and she knew quite a few of them asking for specific ones to come. I believe she had been trained in how to take care of herself in this type of situation. She had no desire to shoot the man and only did so when she felt she was left with no other choice.
I listened to the point of the shooting, but didn't hear any of that. However, I could have missed it. Either way, I was not talking about the point when he actually entered the house but the ten minutes or so when he was locked outside, knocking, and calling for Pat.
He's My Friend
12-05-2009, 08:59 PM
If I remember correctly the intruder was 53 years old.
He was a well known person to law enforcement.
He was a well known drug addict and alcoholic.
While he was breaking in this home, his sister was in his truck (about 1-2 miles) down the road drugged out of her mind.
The woman (victm) is familar with the police which possibly helped her remain calm. Her son is a policeman.
MissBrattified
12-05-2009, 09:13 PM
From what I understood of the call she did inform the intruder, when he started to break in and she put the phone down, that she had a gun and was on the phone with the police. He proceeded to break in with a patio chair and then the table. Those are the actions of a mad man and a few seconds of indecision could have caused her her life. Her son was a police officer and she knew quite a few of them asking for specific ones to come. I believe she had been trained in how to take care of herself in this type of situation. She had no desire to shoot the man and only did so when she felt she was left with no other choice.
I'm in agreement that she has the legal right to defend herself and her property, as noted earlier on the thread. I don't fault her at all for doing what she felt necessary to protect herself.
I didn't hear her announce to the man that she had a gun and would shoot.
Truthseeker
12-05-2009, 09:16 PM
regardless of what one thinks should have been done, a citizen as the right to stand their ground and defend their property by all enemies, foreign and domestic. :)
I think I would have run out the front door or hid in a back room with gun pointed to door hoping sheriff would come before having to shoot, but I always don't think the ECU pirates shouldn't have run the ball on 4 and 1 after being stopped twice. ;) Easy to make judgements after the fact.
I listened to the point of the shooting, but didn't hear any of that. However, I could have missed it. Either way, I was not talking about the point when he actually entered the house but the ten minutes or so when he was locked outside, knocking, and calling for Pat.
I think she wanted to avoid confrontation she kept asking them to hurry. I believe everyone would handle the situation differently depending on their strengths and weaknesses. Coming from a woman's perspective their is no way I would have wanted to confront him, she was worried about him seeing her and had even turned off all the lights. At one point they asked her if their was a room she could lock herself in in the house. She said no she didn't feel comfortable in a small bathroom with a shotgun. I believe you are looking from a man's point of view which might have been a bit more rational. This man was pounding on all the doors and windows and was yelling, this can be pretty intimidating to a woman, where a man might feel more in control. Even though she was level headed she was probably trained on how to act, thinking beyond that might have been too much at the moment.
I'm in agreement that she has the legal right to defend herself and her property, as noted earlier on the thread. I don't fault her at all for doing what she felt necessary to protect herself.
I didn't hear her announce to the man that she had a gun and would shoot.
I had to listen to that part over again, because it was confusing to me. I believe she relayed that to the operator, we couldn't hear her when she actually said it to the man, right before she actually shot him. I will have to listen again to be sure it was earlier today.
Sandra
12-05-2009, 09:29 PM
I listened to the whole 32 min. I didn't intend to listen that long. I think the police took way to long! I wish she would of just shot him in the leg , just wounded him. I don't fault her, I know she had to do what she had to do. It is clear on tape that she didn't want to kill him, but again the police took FOREVER!
MissBrattified
12-05-2009, 09:30 PM
I had to listen to that part over again, because it was confusing to me. I believe she relayed that to the operator, we couldn't hear her when she actually said it to the man, right before she actually shot him. I will have to listen again to be sure it was earlier today.
Okay, well, what I meant was yelling through the door to let him know she had a gun, before he ever broke in. I guess she was trying to keep him from knowing she was home or from seeing her through the windows/doors? I think she was hoping he would give up and go away.
It's a moot point anyway. The man is dead, and the woman, although she defended herself rightfully, will have to deal with some terrible guilt. I feel bad for her. Listening to her after she shot him made me cry, too. What a terrible thing to have to live with. :(
Okay, well, what I meant was yelling through the door to let him know she had a gun, before he ever broke in. I guess she was trying to keep him from knowing she was home or from seeing her through the windows/doors? I think she was hoping he would give up and go away.
It's a moot point anyway. The man is dead, and the woman, although she defended herself rightfully, will have to deal with some terrible guilt. I feel bad for her. Listening to her after she shot him made me cry, too. What a terrible thing to have to live with. :(
I agree, I would not have handled it as well. I probably would have been under a bed or tried to get out another way.
I listened to the whole 32 min. I didn't intend to listen that long. I think the police took way to long! I wish she would of just shot him in the leg , just wounded him. I don't fault her, I know she had to do what she had to do. It is clear on tape that she didn't want to kill him, but again the police took FOREVER!
This happens a lot. In our area, the police were talking to a group of teens explaining that their were only six officers on duty at one time. He then proceeded to ask if there was a bank robbery and a call that there was an intruder at their home, which do you think the police would respond to first? Of course the robbery. So in that perspective it can take a long time depending on where they are and what they are doing.
tstew
12-05-2009, 09:56 PM
I think she wanted to avoid confrontation she kept asking them to hurry. I believe everyone would handle the situation differently depending on their strengths and weaknesses. Coming from a woman's perspective their is no way I would have wanted to confront him, she was worried about him seeing her and had even turned off all the lights. At one point they asked her if their was a room she could lock herself in in the house. She said no she didn't feel comfortable in a small bathroom with a shotgun. I believe you are looking from a man's point of view which might have been a bit more rational. This man was pounding on all the doors and windows and was yelling, this can be pretty intimidating to a woman, where a man might feel more in control. Even though she was level headed she was probably trained on how to act, thinking beyond that might have been too much at the moment.
Yes, I was trying to make allowance for the fact that I am a relatively younger man and she is a relatively older woman. I just think that if he was stealthily trying to break in, there would be no question in my mind about motive. However, if someone were to come knocking on my doors and yelling for a person that didn't live there, I would think that they could possibly be confused or disoriented. I'm not saying that I wouldn't arm myself and address the potential threat.
Yes, I was trying to make allowance for the fact that I am a relatively younger man and she is a relatively older woman. I just think that if he was stealthily trying to break in, there would be no question in my mind about motive. However, if someone were to come knocking on my doors and yelling for a person that didn't live there, I would think that they could possibly be confused or disoriented. I'm not saying that I wouldn't arm myself and address the potential threat.
I re-listened and I was incorrect she didn't identify that she had a gun and was on the phone with the police before or after she shot him. I am not arguing, but he wasn't just yelling or knocking he was also threatening to do something to the house. She thought he was drunk not for sure.
I think I would have been hiding under the bed or trying to get as far away as I could. Using a gun isn't my specialty.
I had to listen to that part over again, because it was confusing to me. I believe she relayed that to the operator, we couldn't hear her when she actually said it to the man, right before she actually shot him. I will have to listen again to be sure it was earlier today.
I don't know how I came to this conclusion, but no where in there did she say she identified that she had a gun or was on the phone with the police. Just wanted to correct that error.
Digging4Truth
12-07-2009, 06:29 AM
I have told my kids about this recording and I think I am going to let them listen to the whole thing. I think it is a good lesson in the consequences of self defense. You can hear how confident the lady is in the beginning. She says she doesn't want to but she will kill him dead if he breaks in. It is sort of a matter of fact statement. You can tell that she and her sons have discussed this and that she knows what to do if she is forced to do it.
Then... after the fact... even though she was justified to fire the gun the very real terror that would hit any of us to know that we have taken a human life.
I can tell my family about how to defend themselves in a situation like that... and they should... but nothing compares you for the realization of the true human consequences of what you had to do.
Jeffrey
12-07-2009, 09:12 AM
regardless of what one thinks should have been done, a citizen as the right to stand their ground and defend their property by all enemies, foreign and domestic. :)
I think I would have run out the front door or hid in a back room with gun pointed to door hoping sheriff would come before having to shoot, but I always don't think the ECU pirates shouldn't have run the ball on 4 and 1 after being stopped twice. ;) Easy to make judgements after the fact.
Ha! I think you're confused with the duties of the United States Government, and its Commander-in-Chief! lol "foreign and domestic..."
vBulletin® v3.8.5, Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.