Rebel Yell!!

[Kutless]

I am in support of TV. I own 4. However part of me thinks it is cowardly for an AS signing preacher to go against the org. and own or advertise anyway.

I mean if you don't agree to the point of being dishonest how is that any better.

Can any of my liberal brothers set me straight?

[Nahum]

Nope, you are right.

[nathan_slatter]

I'm of the belief that if you are going to believe something -- live it.

[Ronzo]

I am in support of TV. I own 4. However part of me thinks it is cowardly for an AS signing preacher to go against the org. and own or advertise anyway.

I mean if you don't agree to the point of being dishonest how is that any better.

Can any of my liberal brothers set me straight?


I never understood why someone would want to be part of an org and sign something they don't believe or practice.

Either you agree with and live by the 'by laws' or you don't.

[Kutless]

I'm of the belief that if you are going to believe something -- live it.so how does that work to my question?

Rebel? (stay in)

or

Yell? (get out)

[Ronzo]

Yell.



Personal opinion.

[nathan_slatter]

so how does that work to my question?

Rebel? (stay in)

or

Yell? (get out)

Yell -- I honestly believe that there is no such thing as "changing from within". But that's just me.

[Kutless]

Yell -- I honestly believe that there is no such thing as "changing from within". But that's just me.although it is happening. Go across the street and read about the success in deltaguitars UPC - TV - advertising church.

[nathan_slatter]

although it is happening. Go across the street and read about the success in deltaguitars UPC - TV - advertising church.

There is more than just TV that needs changing but point is taken.

[deltaguitar]

I am in support of TV. I own 4. However part of me thinks it is cowardly for an AS signing preacher to go against the org. and own or advertise anyway.

I mean if you don't agree to the point of being dishonest how is that any better.

Can any of my liberal brothers set me straight?

I am not sure there is anything dishonest about it. I am sure that in our district it is no secret that we have been advertising.

Truthfully, it would be a lot easier for the UPC to kick us out than cause a stir in our church by trying to convince the church members that we need to get out.

Remember, we are in a period of transition. There has to be some preachers who push the issue in the correct way so that the positive effects of TV can be demonstrated.

In my opinion, preachers who are leading the way towards TV are leaders in our movement. Not cowards.

[Kutless]

I am not sure there is anything dishonest about it. I am sure that in our district it is no secret that we have been advertising.

Truthfully, it would be a lot easier for the UPC to kick us out than cause a stir in our church by trying to convince the church members that we need to get out.

Remember, we are in a period of transition. There has to be some preachers who push the issue in the correct way so that the positive effects of TV can be demonstrated.

In my opinion, preachers who are leading the way towards TV are leaders in our movement. Not cowards.No offense but that remains to be seen

[Ferd]

Well, I cant speak for everyone. I cant even speak for myself, as i dont hold a licenes even though I preach in, attend only UPCI churches.

But let me say, I am a 5th Gen Pentecostal. my home church was part of the merger. Both my family and my ministerial heritage are UPCI going back to before there was a UPCI, so asking me to leave the UPCI would be like asking me to leave my own home.

I know there are a lot of men who do hold licenes and feel the same as I do. It is the only home they know and leaving the UPCI sperates them from the only fellowship they have ever known.

doctrinally it is a dangerous world out there. you leave your tether and you are set loose in a sea of shifting doctrine and it is hard to be stable without being in fellowship with like minded men.

this is key. I know a lot of guys that left for good reason but over time, more things changed than they intended. Ive even had a guy tell me NOT to leave no matter what....for this reason. he left and wishes it could be un-done. sad.

so, what you end up with is smart guys that by and large agree with the fundimental doctrine of the UPCI and agree with the stated goals and mission statement, but have a few ancillary issues with some of the "rules"

and folk want them to burn down the only home they have ever known because they dont agree with a couple of minor house rules.

I dont have a problem with these guys staying. In fact i prefer it. I would rather the org be changed from with in.

[Scott Hutchinson]

But hey aren't there other oneness folks out there besides UPCI, who believe similar to the UPCI ?

[deltaguitar]

Well, I cant speak for everyone. I cant even speak for myself, as i dont hold a licenes even though I preach in, attend only UPCI churches.

But let me say, I am a 5th Gen Pentecostal. my home church was part of the merger. Both my family and my ministerial heritage are UPCI going back to before there was a UPCI, so asking me to leave the UPCI would be like asking me to leave my own home.

I know there are a lot of men who do hold licenes and feel the same as I do. It is the only home they know and leaving the UPCI sperates them from the only fellowship they have ever known.

doctrinally it is a dangerous world out there. you leave your tether and you are set loose in a sea of shifting doctrine and it is hard to be stable without being in fellowship with like minded men.

this is key. I know a lot of guys that left for good reason but over time, more things changed than they intended. Ive even had a guy tell me NOT to leave no matter what....for this reason. he left and wishes it could be un-done. sad.

so, what you end up with is smart guys that by and large agree with the fundimental doctrine of the UPCI and agree with the stated goals and mission statement, but have a few ancillary issues with some of the "rules"

and folk want them to burn down the only home they have ever known because they dont agree with a couple of minor house rules.

I dont have a problem with these guys staying. In fact i prefer it. I would rather the org be changed from with in.


Yes, you said it better than I could. :iagree

[delta soundman]

Well, I cant speak for everyone. I cant even speak for myself, as i dont hold a licenes even though I preach in, attend only UPCI churches.

But let me say, I am a 5th Gen Pentecostal. my home church was part of the merger. Both my family and my ministerial heritage are UPCI going back to before there was a UPCI, so asking me to leave the UPCI would be like asking me to leave my own home.

I know there are a lot of men who do hold licenes and feel the same as I do. It is the only home they know and leaving the UPCI sperates them from the only fellowship they have ever known.

doctrinally it is a dangerous world out there. you leave your tether and you are set loose in a sea of shifting doctrine and it is hard to be stable without being in fellowship with like minded men.

this is key. I know a lot of guys that left for good reason but over time, more things changed than they intended. Ive even had a guy tell me NOT to leave no matter what....for this reason. he left and wishes it could be un-done. sad.

so, what you end up with is smart guys that by and large agree with the fundimental doctrine of the UPCI and agree with the stated goals and mission statement, but have a few ancillary issues with some of the "rules"

and folk want them to burn down the only home they have ever known because they dont agree with a couple of minor house rules.

I dont have a problem with these guys staying. In fact i prefer it. I would rather the org be changed from with in.

When i run for Supt, I want you to be my speech writer. Well spoken!

[Ferd]

Thanks. im cheep too!

[nathan_slatter]

Thanks. im cheep too!

But I hear he can cook... :D

[delta soundman]

But I hear he can cook... :D

I like to cook, it's the cleaning up I have a problem with.:donuts

[Ferd]

I like to cook, it's the cleaning up I have a problem with.:donuts

we must think a lot alike.


im test driving a new smoker this weekend. I gots me an electric one with digital themometer/time control.

and a brisket that has been ageing since sunday.... oh boy it is going to be a fun weekend!

[nathan_slatter]

we must think a lot alike.


im test driving a new smoker this weekend. I gots me an electric one with digital themometer/time control.

and a brisket that has been ageing since sunday.... oh boy it is going to be a fun weekend!

explain the aging brisket to me -- I've never done that. And considering my favorite is brisket, I need to know... :D

[Ferd]

explain the aging brisket to me -- I've never done that. And considering my favorite is brisket, I need to know... :D

You have heard of aging meat? where you hang a piece of beef in a cooler and let is stay there exposed to the elements for a period of time?

well, im using my meat drawer to draw out some of the excess liquid and allow it to age a bit. I dont know exactly what all it does but Alton Brown recomends it for Rib roast so i figure it cant be bad for Brisket...

we shall see.

This is Altons take on the rib roast and I assure you it is outstanding. i figured I would try it for the brisket...(first part is on ageing.)

http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/recipes/recipe/0,,FOOD_9936_17372,00.html?rsrc=search

[Theophilus]

I think I've come to the final analysis on the TV issue.

Certain Leaders show us their underestimated wisdom with their support of television.

They have targeted the perfect demographic...the TV Viewer.

Where else can you find someone to sit passively and be entertained, while you fill their skull full of mush with rancid liberal pentecostalism?

What bravado!?

[Ferd]

I think I've come to the final analysis on the TV issue.

Certain Leaders show us their underestimated wisdom with their support of television.

They have targeted the perfect demographic...the TV Viewer.

Where else can you find someone to sit passively and be entertained, while you fill their skull full of mush with rancid liberal pentecostalism?

What bravado!?

they have targeted the perfect demographic...the TV Viewer"

dude, dont you know that is everybody but a handfull of folk that are either already Apostolic or are some form of Amish/Menonite?

good grief

[Theophilus]

they have targeted the perfect demographic...the TV Viewer"

dude, dont you know that is everybody but a handfull of folk that are either already Apostolic or are some form of Amish/Menonite?

good grief

LOL! Not everyone is so easily entertained. There are plenty of people in the world, various churches, and religions that know that there is nothing on the tube but cheese whiz.

What is even more sad and pathetic is that in the last days those of us that really knew better in the first place are so drawn to it. :tvhappy

Good Luck with the TV strategy though...at least you'll have someone to watch it with you.

[Ferd]

LOL! Not everyone is so easily entertained. There are plenty of people in the world, various churches, and religions that know that there is nothing on the tube but cheese whiz.

What is even more sad and pathetic is that in the last days those of us that really knew better in the first place are so drawn to it. :tvhappy

Good Luck with the TV strategy though...at least you'll have someone to watch it with you.

Theo, what is the current % of American homes without TV? is that the only demographic you are looking for?

all 11 familes? get real man. you made a silly point.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

You have heard of aging meat? where you hang a piece of beef in a cooler and let is stay there exposed to the elements for a period of time?

well, im using my meat drawer to draw out some of the excess liquid and allow it to age a bit. I dont know exactly what all it does but Alton Brown recomends it for Rib roast so i figure it cant be bad for Brisket...

we shall see.

This is Altons take on the rib roast and I assure you it is outstanding. i figured I would try it for the brisket...(first part is on ageing.)

http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/recipes/recipe/0,,FOOD_9936_17372,00.html?rsrc=search

They had all these soaker bags where you take a good chunk of BEEF and let it sit for as many days as you can wait. Seems they were about $10 .

Jack Daniels Branded.....

[Theophilus]

Theo, what is the current % of American homes without TV? is that the only demographic you are looking for?

all 11 familes? get real man. you made a silly point.

11 families? Who's silly?

[Hoovie]

I am in support of TV. I own 4. However part of me thinks it is cowardly for an AS signing preacher to go against the org. and own or advertise anyway.

I mean if you don't agree to the point of being dishonest how is that any better.

Can any of my liberal brothers set me straight?

Well the way you package it - yes it sounds "cowardly" even hypocritical.

Myself though, I can easily see how someone may run an ad on TV while choosing not to indulge in a daily diet of the same medium.

Steve Hoover

[Theophilus]

P.S. I never boasted a majority....think about it.

Hint: A biblical principle contrasting the many to the few.

[Theophilus]

Well, I gotta go for now. It's time for my favorite program.

Real Family Time

Who needs carefully crafted "entertainment" when you have God and all his gifts running around the house.

Peace be to you and your TV.

[Ferd]

Well, I gotta go for now. It's time for my favorite program.

Real Family Time

Who needs carefully crafted "entertainment" when you have God and all his gifts running around the house.

Peace be to you and your TV.

i am still at work. hate that.

when I get home there will be serious family time. me laying on the floor and Toddler Ferd jumping on me yelling "more!"

that is about all my back can take but it sure is fun. at some point in the background will be the Mavs game. if they loose this one I may swear off tv for good!

[Ferd]

They had all these soaker bags where you take a good chunk of BEEF and let it sit for as many days as you can wait. Seems they were about $10 .

Jack Daniels Branded.....

ive never heard of that. did they sit in burbon?????

dry aged is when the meat hangs in a cooler for a few days.

[Praxeas]

I never understood why someone would want to be part of an org and sign something they don't believe or practice.

Either you agree with and live by the 'by laws' or you don't.
I wonder how many parents think it is a great idea to tell their kids "If you don't like all my rules kid you can run away from home and not be a part of this family"

[South of I 90]

Kutless; I dedicate this clip to this thread!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToeY7MkCm0c

[Hoovie]

Kutless; I dedicate this clip to this thread!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToeY7MkCm0c

uhhh.... I think these folks must be "Independent"!

[Monkeyman]

Thought this thread would be about Billy Idol!

[Kutless]

Kutless; I dedicate this clip to this thread!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToeY7MkCm0cVery nice! Steve Stephens is a very underrated guitarist.


Anyhoo, while I certainly understand where Hoover, Ferd, and Prax are coming from I think we still must account for the verbage in the AS. (of which I have no idea). But does it say anything about preaching against such mediums? Do liscensed preachers not sign that they will not have one in their home? Does it address advertisement?

[MrsMcD]

Well, I cant speak for everyone. I cant even speak for myself, as i dont hold a licenes even though I preach in, attend only UPCI churches.

But let me say, I am a 5th Gen Pentecostal. my home church was part of the merger. Both my family and my ministerial heritage are UPCI going back to before there was a UPCI, so asking me to leave the UPCI would be like asking me to leave my own home.

I know there are a lot of men who do hold licenes and feel the same as I do. It is the only home they know and leaving the UPCI sperates them from the only fellowship they have ever known.

doctrinally it is a dangerous world out there. you leave your tether and you are set loose in a sea of shifting doctrine and it is hard to be stable without being in fellowship with like minded men.

this is key. I know a lot of guys that left for good reason but over time, more things changed than they intended. Ive even had a guy tell me NOT to leave no matter what....for this reason. he left and wishes it could be un-done. sad.

so, what you end up with is smart guys that by and large agree with the fundimental doctrine of the UPCI and agree with the stated goals and mission statement, but have a few ancillary issues with some of the "rules"

and folk want them to burn down the only home they have ever known because they dont agree with a couple of minor house rules.

I dont have a problem with these guys staying. In fact i prefer it. I would rather the org be changed from with in.

Ferd,

This is the best explanation I have seen on this forum!!! I can give you a big AMEN that you are right on with this statement!

[philjones]

I never understood why someone would want to be part of an org and sign something they don't believe or practice.

Either you agree with and live by the 'by laws' or you don't.

You know this position is one of the myriad of reasons why I love and respect you, my friend!:tiphat My hat's off to ya!

[Pressing-On]

Well, I cant speak for everyone. I cant even speak for myself, as i dont hold a licenes even though I preach in, attend only UPCI churches.

But let me say, I am a 5th Gen Pentecostal. my home church was part of the merger. Both my family and my ministerial heritage are UPCI going back to before there was a UPCI, so asking me to leave the UPCI would be like asking me to leave my own home.

I know there are a lot of men who do hold licenes and feel the same as I do. It is the only home they know and leaving the UPCI sperates them from the only fellowship they have ever known.

doctrinally it is a dangerous world out there. you leave your tether and you are set loose in a sea of shifting doctrine and it is hard to be stable without being in fellowship with like minded men.

This is key. I know a lot of guys that left for good reason but over time, more things changed than they intended. Ive even had a guy tell me NOT to leave no matter what....for this reason. he left and wishes it could be un-done. sad.

so, what you end up with is smart guys that by and large agree with the fundimental doctrine of the UPCI and agree with the stated goals and mission statement, but have a few ancillary issues with some of the "rules"

and folk want them to burn down the only home they have ever known because they dont agree with a couple of minor house rules.

I dont have a problem with these guys staying. In fact i prefer it. I would rather the org be changed from with in.
Excellent post, Ferd.

[philjones]

Excellent post, Ferd.

Ditto!

[Kutless]

Ditto!Still doesn't change the AS. We can pull at the heart strings all we want and I partially agree. But the bottom line is you are going against what you said you would do. Maybe getting out isn't the answer. Maybe its the UPC with no back bone, enough to address those that violate.

Or maybe the AS was just a cover. SOmething to appease the freakycons for a time.

[philjones]

Still doesn't change the AS. We can pull at the heart strings all we want and I partially agree. But the bottom line is you are going against what you said you would do. Maybe getting out isn't the answer. Maybe its the UPC with no back bone, enough to address those that violate.

Or maybe the AS was just a cover. SOmething to appease the freakycons for a time.

My ditto was to the statement that one should not leave over trivialities. They should DEFINITELY be honest enough to be obedient and ethical in their behavior and not violate the AS or any other tenet of the AOF. They can absolutely do this while attempting to change the position of their organization from within.

Violating a law or rule and flaunting it in the face of those in leadership is not the way to properly effect change.:2cents

[Kutless]

My ditto was to the statement that one should not leave over trivialities. They should DEFINITELY be honest enough to be obedient and ethical in their behavior and not violate the AS or any other tenet of the AOF. They can absolutely do this while attempting to change the position of their organization from within.

Violating a law or rule and flaunting it in the face of those in leadership is not the way to properly effect change.:2centsExactly what I was trying to say. Thanks. :preach

[MrsMcD]

I'm sure we can dig in ALL of our lives and find things or rules that we violate everyday! Yet, some things we want to nit-pick endlessly.

[Kutless]

I'm sure we can dig in ALL of our lives and find things or rules that we violate everyday! Yet, some things we want to nit-pick endlessly.What great logic. Still doesn't change the AS. Do you not put any stock in its validity? Is it not binding?

If we can ignore it.....well great! What was its point to begin with?

[Hoovie]

My opinion is that some people take everything WAY to seriously... but only if it's convenient.

When you got your drivers license, you promised to obey the laws of the state - and signed a affirmation to the fact. Nearly every time you get behind the wheel you break that promise, and know you will do it again.. and again... and again...

Does this make you dishonest, hypocritical, without integrity etc? The fact is you mostly abide by the laws, and know if you have a major infraction you will be sanctioned or lose a license.

[Kutless]

My opinion is that some people take everything WAY to seriously... but only if it's convenient.

When you got your drivers license, you promised to obey the laws of the state - and signed a affirmation to the fact. Nearly every time you get behind the wheel you break that promise, and know you will do it again.. and again... and again...

Does this make you dishonest, hypocritical, without integrity etc? The fact is you mostly abide by the laws, and know if you have a major infraction you will be sanctioned or lose a license.Bro Hoover, I never had you pegged for an anti-UPC guy. I'm shocked!

[MrsMcD]

Bro Hoover, I never had you pegged for an anti-UPC guy. I'm shocked!

:confused: :confused: :confused:

[Kutless]

:tvhappy :tvhappy :tvhappy :confused: :confused: :confused::tvhappy :tvhappy :tvhappy

[Hoovie]

Bro Hoover, I never had you pegged for an anti-UPC guy. I'm shocked!

OK... I hope this was TIC.

My only point is that the puritans who claim to live by the letter of the law are somewhat selective in their adherence, nothing more, nothing less.

I attend a UPC church.

[Kutless]

OK... I hope this was TIC.

My only point is that the puritans who claim to live by the letter of the law are somewhat selective in their adherence, nothing more, nothing less.

I attend a UPC church.Of course it was brother. I agree with your statement here.

still hypocritical ------------ still a black mark on the UPC

:tvhappy :thad :tvhappy :telephone

[tbpew]

Was the original AS an ammendment to the charter of the organizational fellowship?

If so, does such an ammendment require a super-majority to be codified within the bylaws of the ministerial fellowship?

This is probably a slight departure, but with so many posts, pre and post a late summer vote in Tampa, that will cite TV as topical focus, I am just trying to do my part to bring the issue back to the AS (where I think it belongs).

[Kutless]

Was the original AS an ammendment to the charter of the organizational fellowship?

If so, does such an ammendment require a super-majority to be codified within the bylaws of the ministerial fellowship?

This is probably a slight departure, but with so many posts, pre and post a late summer vote in Tampa, that will cite TV as topical focus, I am just trying to do my part to bring the issue back to the AS (where I think it belongs).I have no idea what you said until "bring the issue back to the AS"

Is there a place to view the verbage of then AS?