Ohio church's Noise bothers Neighbors

[Thad]

MASSILLON, Ohio - Is it worship? Or disturbing the peace?
Neighbors of Worshippers of Christ the Warrior King Church have petitioned the city, saying screams and sounds of glory and praise coming from the building are a nuisance. But church members contend they're being harassed because of how they worship.

"Sunday morning is God's day of worship," the Rev. Troy Sowell said. "I'm not going to tell this congregation, 'You're being too loud.'"

Sowell says he's open to finding a solution but is not going to forfeit his right to worship God.

Police responded to noise complaints three consecutive days during a revival last year, after the congregation moved in.

"They have a sound system over there that is very loud," said neighbor Reginald Winters. "I'm in my house with the door shut, and literally, my windows are vibrating in my house. ... This year, it's started right back up."

The church closed its doors and windows, but the complaints have continued, said Jerena Copeland, associate pastor.

Sowell said light bulbs have been stolen from the building and beer bottles have been wedged beneath the tires of members' vehicles.

Church members recently met with Police Chief Robert Williams.

"I'm still hoping for an amicable, diplomatic solution," said Williams, an ordained minister and the son of a pastor.

[Thad]

I have a feeling a lot of these people would be members of this forum making the complaint if the lived next to this church !

Chan
CC1
felicity
hoover
HO


im trying to think of the other members who think church ought to be quiet

[Old Paths]

Church members say they’ve been harassed for being noisy
By STEPHEN HUBA
Stephen.Huba@IndeOnline.com


THE INDEPENDENT

The congregation at The Worshipers of Christ the Warrior King church, 1133 10th St. N.E., Massillon, say they've been harassed by neighboring residents.


The Worshipers of Christ the Warrior King say all they want to do is make a joyful noise to the Lord. But neighbors say the church has brought anything but joy to their quiet neighborhood.

The church, 1133 10th St. N.E., has been open for a year, and during that time, members have been harassed and even threatened by neighbors, church leaders say.

“We’re in here not bothering them, but they’re bothered because we’re here,” said Associate Pastor Jerena Copeland. “It’s so offensive.”

Copeland acknowledged that the church’s style of worship is exuberant. “We’re not going to whisper in our worship,” she said. “We’re not going to do it.”

Church leaders believe the uncivil treatment is racially motivated – the African-American church is located in a predominantly white neighborhood. It sits catty-corner from Whittier Elementary School.

Copeland and her husband, Eugene, said the troubles started in May 2006, about a month after the Pentecostal church opened. The church was holding a week-long revival, and the services went late into the night.
Neighbors complained about the noise, and the church responded by closing its windows and doors, Jerena Copeland said.

“We’ve tried to work with the community. We’ve done all we can do,” she said.

Copeland said the complaints about noise were exaggerated because all the church had was a CD player. Since then, the church has acquired a drum set and keyboard, but those are used only for Sunday morning worship, she said.

The Copelands and Administrative Assistant Gerald Woods listed a litany of hostile acts directed toward the church since the revival last summer, including beer bottles being placed under car tires, spouting being pulled off the 50-year-old building, and “No Trespassing” signs being pulled up.

Eugene Copeland said neighbors have deliberately let their dogs defecate on the church lawn without cleaning up. He said he has a five-quart bucket filled with dog feces to prove it.

“This was fresh poop,” he said.

Jerena Copeland said her brother-in-law, Michael Elder, of Wooster, was threatened by a neighbor. When Elder tried to report the incident to police, the officer would not take the report, she said.

Woods followed up with Massillon Police Chief Robert Williams, insisting that the incident be investigated. “I believe I ordered a report to be taken,” Williams said.

The chief, who met with church leaders on Wednesday, would not comment further, expressing disappointment that the church went to the news media.

“We are trying to work with the church and the community to come to an amicable conclusion for all parties,” he said.

Someone affiliated with the congregation sent an e-mail to news media outlets on Tuesday with the title “Church Worship Under Fire in Massillon!” Woods denied any knowledge of the e-mail but said, “Whoever sent it did us a favor.”

Senior Pastor Troy Sowell, who recently moved here from Chicago, was out of town and unavailable for comment.

Earlier this week, neighbors on Rotch Avenue and 10th Street submitted a petition to Massillon City Council, asking Ward 1 Councilman Ronald Mang to do something about the noise.

“We consider the level of noise emitting from inside the building to be a disruption to the general peace and good order of the neighborhood,” the petition said.

Mang was unavailable for comment, but his daughter, Diane, said he is aware of the situation.

“He went down to the church, and it is extremely loud,” she said. “There’s a lot of screaming and stuff like that.”

Woods said he scheduled a meeting with Mang but the councilman never showed.

Neighbor Jim Sponseller, who lives across the street from the church, said the noise is especially loud on Saturdays and Sundays. He did not know about the petition.

“They’re full of joy, full of God. I have no problem with that. More power to ’em,” he said. “When they first came into the church, they were extremely loud late at night.”

Another neighbor, a woman who would not give her name, said her problem is with the noise outside the church, not the worship services. The woman, who signed the petition, said church members leave their cars running and radios on and talk late into the night.

“We have a baby, and she’s trying to sleep,” she said. “It’s more the disrespect that’s shown to the neighborhood. I don’t know why they’re there in the wee hours of the night.”

Woods said the church will hold its annual revival again starting May 10. But as a concession to the neighbors, the revival will be only four days long.

“This event is huge for us,” he said.

[Thad]

I wonder what brand of pentecostal they are.

the world (including many so called pentecostals!!!) don't mind anything being loud but worship. sports are okay, bars are okay but worship must be a whisper level

[Hoovie]

I aways liked Beethoven's "Ode to Joy" at a fairly high decibel level...... :)

[ReformedDave]

I have a feeling a lot of these people would be members of this forum making the complaint if the lived next to this church !

Chan
CC1
felicity
hoover
HO


im trying to think of the other members who think church ought to be quiet

Add me to that list!

[ReformedDave]

I wonder what brand of pentecostal they are.

the world (including many so called pentecostals!!!) don't mind anything being loud but worship. sports are okay, bars are okay but worship must be a whisper level


Equating the worship of God with sports.......

[Thad]

Add me to that list!


O definitley! we must not get too excited about God now should we

[Thad]

Equating the worship of God with sports.......



A lot of people worship sports more then they do God

[ReformedDave]

A lot of people worship sports more then they do God

God has dictated the way in which He is to be worshipped. The way in which a person responds at a sporting event has no bearing on how one is to worship God. Volume doesn't not equal worship.

[Hoovie]

God has dictated the way in which He is to be worshipped. The way in which a person responds at a sporting event has no bearing on how one is to worship God. Volume doesn't not equal worship.

Explain please.

[Thad]

God has dictated the way in which He is to be worshipped. The way in which a person responds at a sporting event has no bearing on how one is to worship God. Volume doesn't not equal worship.


Yes he did and according to the book of Psalms there are plenty of scriptures that instruct us to worship in a manner that you might not approve of

[LaGirl]

Quiet church??? WHAT???? I would not like a quiet church.

[ReformedDave]

Explain please.

God has the perogative, being the Supreme object of our worship, to dictate the way in which we are to worship Him. We are not to take away or add to this. Many in the 'church' feel that if He has not forbade something, it is permissible. The sons of Aaron were killed for offering 'strange' fire. We don't know much about what it was that made it 'strange' but we do know that there is not one time God forbade them to offer it. Scripture is silent on the matter. We do know that God killed them due to the offering of something He had not ordained. Not something that He had forbade.

[ReformedDave]

Yes he did and according to the book of Psalms there are plenty of scriptures that instruct us to worship in a manner that you might not approve of

Take ALL of Scripture in context! If I used your hermanutic I'd still be burning sheep.

[Thad]

eeeeewwwwwwwwkay

[ReformedDave]

eeeeewwwwwwwwkay

Sorry you can't understand.

[Thad]

Sorry you can't understand.



I understand fully.

hand me a sleeping pill please

[ReformedDave]

Spoken like a true UPC musician.

[Sheltiedad]

If they built a new church in a residential neighborhood, the neighbors have a right to complain... I don't care if they are worshipping God or if it is a Crack house, people have a right to peace and quiet when they are trying to sleep. Just because some people like to make noise until after midnight, does not mean that they have a right to keep those people awake that are in bed by 9pm every night.

I am not going to stay up past my bedtime to go to a bar, or to a sporting event, and I am not going to stay up past my bedtime to go to church. I guarantee I would be the first person signing that petition if it was in my neighborhood... but I'm also a person who will not mow my lawn before 8am just to be considerate of my neighbors.

Even when people have parties on the weekend, it is fairly normal to ask them to turn the music down after 10pm in most civilized communities.

[Sarah]

If they built a new church in a residential neighborhood, the neighbors have a right to complain... I don't care if they are worshipping God or if it is a Crack house, people have a right to peace and quiet when they are trying to sleep. Just because some people like to make noise until after midnight, does not mean that they have a right to keep those people awake that are in bed by 9pm every night.

I am not going to stay up past my bedtime to go to a bar, or to a sporting event, and I am not going to stay up past my bedtime to go to church. I guarantee I would be the first person signing that petition if it was in my neighborhood... but I'm also a person who will not mow my lawn before 8am just to be considerate of my neighbors.

Even when people have parties on the weekend, it is fairly normal to ask them to turn the music down after 10pm in most civilized communities.


I really don't find anything in this post to disagree with. The key words being 'residential neighborhood'.

Maybe a compromise could be met. That old saying....you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.....might apply here. Church people need to be good neighbors too.

[freeatlast]

These folks need to get along peacably with their felowman as the bible instructs us to.

I don't care what kind of noise it is that is bothering the neighbors. They have every right to complain. Be it "church noise" or a tavern close by that blares their music.

Sorry that some can't seem to feel the presence of God without a four / four beat cranked up to 99 decibils.

[berkeley]

God has dictated the way in which He is to be worshipped. The way in which a person responds at a sporting event has no bearing on how one is to worship God. Volume doesn't not equal worship.
thas right!

[berkeley]

Spoken like a true UPC musician.:hypercoffee

[Thad]

I agree sheltie Dad.

my point was not that the church should not be considerate or come up with a solution. IMO, they could take out a loan and their church sound Proofed.
my issue was those who think that God's people should be Prohibited from enthusiastic exuberant worship

[Brother Price]

Sorry to disagree with all of you people who would like to censor worship. But, let me state this, for the record.

I shout! I sing! I run! I jump! I praise! and there is not a man on earth or devil in Hell that has the right to dictate to me how to praise the Lord. You may not like your praise loud and audible, but until you have been through some of the mess He has brought me out of, you have NO right to dictate my praise!

[Sheltiedad]

I live probably 10 miles from you... I'll come over at 3am and then maybe get out my skilsaw and hammer and start building something in front of your house... I'm sure it won't bother you at all. :) If it is a public street, then you have no right to dictate what I do in the back of my pick-up in front of your house. :)

[Sam]

God has dictated the way in which He is to be worshipped. The way in which a person responds at a sporting event has no bearing on how one is to worship God. Volume doesn't not equal worship.

"the Lord is in His holy temple.
Let all the earth keep silence before Him."
Hab 2:20

"Oh, clap your hands, all you peoples!
Shout to God with the voice of triumph!"
Psalm 47:1

"Praise the Lord!
Praise God in His sanctuary;
Praise Him in His mighty firmament!
Praise Him for His mighty acts;
Praise Him according to His excellent greatness!
Praise Him with the sound of the trumpet;
Praise Him with the lute and harp!
Praise Him with the timbrel and dance;
Praise Him with stringed instruments and flutes!
Praise Him with loud cymbals;
Praise him with clashing cymbals!
Let everything that has breath praise the Lord.
Praise the Lord!
Psalm 150:1-6

[Brother Price]

I live probably 10 miles from you... I'll come over at 3am and then maybe get out my skilsaw and hammer and start building something in front of your house... I'm sure it won't bother you at all. :) If it is a public street, then you have no right to dictate what I do in the back of my pick-up in front of your house. :)

If you got the plans, I'll even help ya build. But, be aware that when I work, I am doing all to the glory of God. So, you may hear a Hallelujah outta me every once in a while.:preach

[Ferd]

Yes he did and according to the book of Psalms there are plenty of scriptures that instruct us to worship in a manner that you might not approve of

stuff like

"Praise him on the LOUD cymbles" was mistranslated. it really said "Praise him with a pillow over your face"



or some such.


the requirement for giving God a waive offering really meant to sit on your hands and act like you are watching paint dry.

[Felicity]

There's no need of all that racket! :D


;)

[rgcraig]

There's no need of all that racket! :D


;)

If you are considering going back to UPC, you better get use to it! :preach :rockband :shockamoo

[Felicity]

If you are considering going back to UPC, you better get use to it! :preach :rockband :shockamooLOL!

[Scott Hutchinson]

AH the louder the music the greater the anointing isn't that how it works ?

[Hoovie]

stuff like

"Praise him on the LOUD cymbles" was mistranslated. it really said "Praise him with a pillow over your face"



or some such.


the requirement for giving God a waive offering really meant to sit on your hands and act like you are watching paint dry.

I think you may be onto something... A "waive offering" is something to look into at some of these conferences!:killinme :killinme

[ReformedDave]

Sorry to disagree with all of you people who would like to censor worship. But, let me state this, for the record.

I shout! I sing! I run! I jump! I praise! and there is not a man on earth or devil in Hell that has the right to dictate to me how to praise the Lord. You may not like your praise loud and audible, but until you have been through some of the mess He has brought me out of, you have NO right to dictate my praise!

Hey! It's all about you huh?!(tell that to Aaron's sons) What does He dictate? Oh who cares anyway as long as you wear long sleaves.

[crakjak]

There's no need of all that racket! :D


;)

I use to laugh at you old moss backs, now I are one!:bedtime

[ReformedDave]

Jeremiah Burroughs- from Gospel Worship:

The first note is this: That in God's worship, there must be nothing tendered up to God but what He has commanded. Whatsoever we meddle with in the worship of God must be what we have a warrant for out of the Word of God.



This speech of Moses' is upon the occasion of the judgment of God upon Aaron's sons for offering strange fire. They offered fire that God had not commanded. Hence I say that all things in God's worship must have a warrant out of God's Word. It must be commanded, it's not enough that it is not forbidden. I beseech you to observe it. It is not enough that a thing is not forbidden, and what hurt is there in it? But it must be commanded. I confess that in matters that are civil and natural this may be enough. If it is only according to the rules of prudence and not forbidden in the Word, we may make use of this in civil and natural things. But when we come to matters of religion and the worship of God, we must either have a command or something out of God's Word drawn from some command wherein God manifests His will, either by a direct command, or by comparing one thing with another, or drawing consequences plainly from the words.



We must have a warrant for the worship of God. One would have thought that these priests offering incense to the true God, what hurt was there in taking other fire? But there was no command for it, and therefore it was not accepted. It's true that there are some things in the worship of God that are natural and civil helps, and there we do not need to have a command. For instance, when we come to worship God the congregation meets. They must have a convenient place to keep the air and weather from them. Now this is only a natural help, and so far as I use the place of worship as a natural help, I need have no command. But if I will put anything in a place beyond what it has in its own nature, there I must look for a command, for if I account one place more holy than another, or think that God should accept worship in one place rather than another, this is to raise it above what it is in its own nature.



So when any creature is raised in a religious way above what it has in it by nature, if I do not have Scripture to warrant me, I am therein superstitious. It is a very useful rule to help you. If any creature that you make use of in a way of religion beyond what it has in its own nature, if you do not have some warrant from the Word of God (whatever specious show there may be in it) it is superstition.



There was a place that was holy, but then it had an institution from God. And so for garments, to use those that are decent, the light of reason is enough. But if I put anything upon them beyond what there is in them in their own nature, as heretofore in a surplice, what! Did that have any more decency in its own nature, or was it not only man' s institution? Now when a man shall put a religious respect upon a thing by virtue of his own institution, when he does not have a warrant from God, that is superstition! We must all be willing worshippers, not will-worshippers.



We must come freely to worship God, but we must not worship God according to our own wills. Therefore, whatever we do in the worship of God, if we do not have a warrant for it, when this is said, “Who required this at your hands?” it will stop our mouths another day.



In Matthew 15:39 we read, “In vain do they worship Me, teaching for doctrine the commandments of men.” In vain. It is a vain thing to worship God when there is nothing but a commandment of man for this worship. If you would worship God, you must have a commandment of God for the worship. And in Is.29:13, there is a place to the same purpose that shows how the Lord is offended with any man that shall teach His fear by their own precepts, “Wherefore the Lord said, forasmuch as this people draw near Me with their mouth, and their lips do honor Me, but have removed their heart far from Me, and their fear towards Me is taught by the precepts of men.”



Mark it. Now if this is so, the Lord have mercy upon us in this thing. You have cause to be humbled, every one of you, I believe, in some degree of other; this congregation very much, and most other congregations that have had the fear of God taught them by the precepts of men.



How many things have there been in the worship of God that you can show no warrant for in the Word? A great many things are merely men's inventions. However they are now cast out, because authority came and cast them out, and so you submitted to it. But that's not enough for you to submit to it because authority would have it so. You ought to be humbled before God for all your will-worship, for all your yieldings to anything in the worship of God that was taught by the precepts of men.



You see how severe God was to Nadab and Abihu for just taking other fire than that which God had appointed, though there was no direct command against it. If the Lord has spared you and not manifested any displeasure upon you, you have cause to acknowledge God's mercy, and to be humbled for all your false worship. Certainly God expects this land to be humbled for its will-worship, otherwise we sow among thorns. All the reformation that is among us is meaningless if there is not a humiliation before for all our false worship. It is not enough that we set up now the true worship of God, but we must be humbled for our false worship. And that's the first note, that in the worship of God there must be nothing but what God commands.

[crakjak]

Jeremiah Burroughs- from Gospel Worship:

The first note is this: That in God's worship, there must be nothing tendered up to God but what He has commanded. Whatsoever we meddle with in the worship of God must be what we have a warrant for out of the Word of God.



This speech of Moses' is upon the occasion of the judgment of God upon Aaron's sons for offering strange fire. They offered fire that God had not commanded. Hence I say that all things in God's worship must have a warrant out of God's Word. It must be commanded, it's not enough that it is not forbidden. I beseech you to observe it. It is not enough that a thing is not forbidden, and what hurt is there in it? But it must be commanded. I confess that in matters that are civil and natural this may be enough. If it is only according to the rules of prudence and not forbidden in the Word, we may make use of this in civil and natural things. But when we come to matters of religion and the worship of God, we must either have a command or something out of God's Word drawn from some command wherein God manifests His will, either by a direct command, or by comparing one thing with another, or drawing consequences plainly from the words.



We must have a warrant for the worship of God. One would have thought that these priests offering incense to the true God, what hurt was there in taking other fire? But there was no command for it, and therefore it was not accepted. It's true that there are some things in the worship of God that are natural and civil helps, and there we do not need to have a command. For instance, when we come to worship God the congregation meets. They must have a convenient place to keep the air and weather from them. Now this is only a natural help, and so far as I use the place of worship as a natural help, I need have no command. But if I will put anything in a place beyond what it has in its own nature, there I must look for a command, for if I account one place more holy than another, or think that God should accept worship in one place rather than another, this is to raise it above what it is in its own nature.



So when any creature is raised in a religious way above what it has in it by nature, if I do not have Scripture to warrant me, I am therein superstitious. It is a very useful rule to help you. If any creature that you make use of in a way of religion beyond what it has in its own nature, if you do not have some warrant from the Word of God (whatever specious show there may be in it) it is superstition.



There was a place that was holy, but then it had an institution from God. And so for garments, to use those that are decent, the light of reason is enough. But if I put anything upon them beyond what there is in them in their own nature, as heretofore in a surplice, what! Did that have any more decency in its own nature, or was it not only man' s institution? Now when a man shall put a religious respect upon a thing by virtue of his own institution, when he does not have a warrant from God, that is superstition! We must all be willing worshippers, not will-worshippers.



We must come freely to worship God, but we must not worship God according to our own wills. Therefore, whatever we do in the worship of God, if we do not have a warrant for it, when this is said, “Who required this at your hands?” it will stop our mouths another day.



In Matthew 15:39 we read, “In vain do they worship Me, teaching for doctrine the commandments of men.” In vain. It is a vain thing to worship God when there is nothing but a commandment of man for this worship. If you would worship God, you must have a commandment of God for the worship. And in Is.29:13, there is a place to the same purpose that shows how the Lord is offended with any man that shall teach His fear by their own precepts, “Wherefore the Lord said, forasmuch as this people draw near Me with their mouth, and their lips do honor Me, but have removed their heart far from Me, and their fear towards Me is taught by the precepts of men.”



Mark it. Now if this is so, the Lord have mercy upon us in this thing. You have cause to be humbled, every one of you, I believe, in some degree of other; this congregation very much, and most other congregations that have had the fear of God taught them by the precepts of men.



How many things have there been in the worship of God that you can show no warrant for in the Word? A great many things are merely men's inventions. However they are now cast out, because authority came and cast them out, and so you submitted to it. But that's not enough for you to submit to it because authority would have it so. You ought to be humbled before God for all your will-worship, for all your yieldings to anything in the worship of God that was taught by the precepts of men.



You see how severe God was to Nadab and Abihu for just taking other fire than that which God had appointed, though there was no direct command against it. If the Lord has spared you and not manifested any displeasure upon you, you have cause to acknowledge God's mercy, and to be humbled for all your false worship. Certainly God expects this land to be humbled for its will-worship, otherwise we sow among thorns. All the reformation that is among us is meaningless if there is not a humiliation before for all our false worship. It is not enough that we set up now the true worship of God, but we must be humbled for our false worship. And that's the first note, that in the worship of God there must be nothing but what God commands.

Dave,

That is a whole lot of talking to say so little. What do you say of Sam's post of these warrants of scripture.

"the Lord is in His holy temple.
Let all the earth keep silence before Him."
Hab 2:20

"Oh, clap your hands, all you peoples!
Shout to God with the voice of triumph!"
Psalm 47:1

"Praise the Lord!
Praise God in His sanctuary;
Praise Him in His mighty firmament!
Praise Him for His mighty acts;
Praise Him according to His excellent greatness!
Praise Him with the sound of the trumpet;
Praise Him with the lute and harp!
Praise Him with the timbrel and dance;
Praise Him with stringed instruments and flutes!
Praise Him with loud cymbals;
Praise him with clashing cymbals!
Let everything that has breath praise the Lord.
Praise the Lord!
Psalm 150:1-6

I certainly believe in decency and order, and all these things can be done in that manner, however there will be a bit of noise.

[SoCaliUPC]

Sorry to disagree with all of you people who would like to censor worship. But, let me state this, for the record.

I shout! I sing! I run! I jump! I praise! and there is not a man on earth or devil in Hell that has the right to dictate to me how to praise the Lord. You may not like your praise loud and audible, but until you have been through some of the mess He has brought me out of, you have NO right to dictate my praise!

Thad would like to invite you to his church.

[ReformedDave]

Dave,

That is a whole lot of talking to say so little. What do you say of Sam's post of these warrants of scripture.

"the Lord is in His holy temple.
Let all the earth keep silence before Him."
Hab 2:20

"Oh, clap your hands, all you peoples!
Shout to God with the voice of triumph!"
Psalm 47:1

"Praise the Lord!
Praise God in His sanctuary;
Praise Him in His mighty firmament!
Praise Him for His mighty acts;
Praise Him according to His excellent greatness!
Praise Him with the sound of the trumpet;
Praise Him with the lute and harp!
Praise Him with the timbrel and dance;
Praise Him with stringed instruments and flutes!
Praise Him with loud cymbals;
Praise him with clashing cymbals!
Let everything that has breath praise the Lord.
Praise the Lord!
Psalm 150:1-6

I certainly believe in decency and order, and all these things can be done in that manner, however there will be a bit of noise.

You may have missed my point. We're not only to do what He has ordained but not to do what He has not ordained. Some will involve noise but whatever we do must be worthy of Him and not for our own gratification. It's about Him and not us. Pentecostal worship, many times, is for the worshiper's benefit. Also, we must take Scripture in context as that changes. What was the worship of our new Testament brethren?

[Sam]

...What was the worship of our new Testament brethren?

I don't actually know how the NT brethren worshiped. I think NT congregations were set up like the Jewish synagogs and I'm not sure what went on in the synagog for worship.

The reason I quoted from the Psalms like that (with both quiet and loud worship) is because Paul wrote about "speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord" in Ep 5:17-21. It seems if we sing about worshiping God with cymbols, shouting, clapping, then those things may be part of the worship. In 1 Cor 14:26 it seems that psalms, teaching, tongues, interpretation, prophecy were part of worship in Corinth.

[ReformedDave]

I don't actually know how the NT brethren worshiped. I think NT congregations were set up like the Jewish synagogs and I'm not sure what went on in the synagog for worship.

The reason I quoted from the Psalms like that (with both quiet and loud worship) is because Paul wrote about "speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord" in Ep 5:17-21. It seems if we sing about worshiping God with cymbols, shouting, clapping, then those things may be part of the worship. In 1 Cor 14:26 it seems that psalms, teaching, tongues, interpretation, prophecy were part of worship in Corinth.

Sounds like it might be a good subject for study since most of us consider the New Testement to be our standard.

For one thing, Paul spends a bit of time on the orderliness of a service and I've NEVER heard any oneness PC teach on the subject. If heard lip service but no teaching.

My main emphasis is that the worship we give God should be worthy of Him and running the isles and yelling are not. To equate the worship of God to the enthusiasm of a ball game is just plain stupid. I attended a San Diego Padre game last nite and I even cheered for our team but I did not worship and I think the vast majority of the crowd didn't either. Being a fan of a team and the worship of God are so vastly different it is amazing to equate the two. I go to the ballgame to be entertained and I go to church to worship Him. The ball yard is about my enjoyment and church is about His enjoyment.

[Ronzo]

Add me to that list!
If they're going to scream and shout and blast the music, they should be respectful of the surrounding neighbors, and take some steps to soundproof the building to minimize their volume.

Does 'love your neighbor as yourself' not really apply to being considerate of others around you?

[ILuvFPC]

Sounds like it might be a good subject for study since most of us consider the New Testement to be our standard.

For one thing, Paul spends a bit of time on the orderliness of a service and I've NEVER heard any oneness PC teach on the subject. If heard lip service but no teaching.

My main emphasis is that the worship we give God should be worthy of Him and running the isles and yelling are not. To equate the worship of God to the enthusiasm of a ball game is just plain stupid. I attended a San Diego Padre game last nite and I even cheered for our team but I did not worship and I think the vast majority of the crowd didn't either. Being a fan of a team and the worship of God are so vastly different it is amazing to equate the two. I go to the ballgame to be entertained and I go to church to worship Him. The ball yard is about my enjoyment and church is about His enjoyment.

You cheer for your ball team brother and we'll cheer for Jesus!!!

[Steve Epley]

Dave they say if the noise bothers you then you must be too old.

[ReformedDave]

Dave they say if the noise bothers you then you must be too old.

You're probably right.

[ReformedDave]

You cheer for your ball team brother and we'll cheer for Jesus!!!

My God is worth more than a cheer! Too big for that.

[Truthseeker]

Volume doesn't not equal worship.

A double amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Thad]

Thad would like to invite you to his church.

Bro Price does not speak to me Socali

[ILuvFPC]

sad for "apostolics" to advocate going and supporting and cheering for the gods of this world yet want to look down on exuberant, lively, worship of Jesus Christ.
well i'm off to church and i plan on getting LOUD!! :ursofunny I might even do a little bit of this :shockamoo !!!

[seguidordejesus]

Bro Price does not speak to me Socali

Don't worry, he has me on ignore, too.

[Thad]

Don't worry, he has me on ignore, too.


LOL, really? why is that ? I have no idea why he has me on Ignore

[commonsense]

This was an on going problem at the UPC church I grew up in> in the North<
Since it's not often hot and this was the 50's so AC wasn't as normal as it is today....on a warm Sunday evening the church was mighty hot; so they opened the stained glass windows ((and the neighbors in old neighborhoods were often verrry close. I never measured but I doubt it was even 6 ft. There was a narrow sidewalk between the church and the house. My feeble memory remembers it as a duplex. In any event the neighbors would complain and the police would come and ask us to be quieter. I don't recall the legal aspect but the windows weren't open as often.
This was a church of about 50. Piano and organ on the platform, and as I recall , an accordian, a saxaphone and maybe on rare occasions a tamborine. Since this was before the widespread use of mikes and amps, it was not really so loud as it was a case of the neighbors so close.

The next building purchased had more space between it and the neighbors........and they still complained about the noise.

Pentecost and noise, who knew? While I agree that noise does not equate as worship, there is nothing wrong with a little shouting on the hills of glory!:shockamoo

[crakjak]

You may have missed my point. We're not only to do what He has ordained but not to do what He has not ordained. Some will involve noise but whatever we do must be worthy of Him and not for our own gratification. It's about Him and not us. Pentecostal worship, many times, is for the worshiper's benefit. Also, we must take Scripture in context as that changes. What was the worship of our new Testament brethren?

I do agree with your post above. Worship is about Him, I personally have had more than enough "noise". True worship may be loud, but above all it will glorify God, the worshiper will then be edified in the process.

Oh, Paul and Silas were loud enough in the prison to bring the jailer trembling and repenting.

[Sam]

...
Oh, Paul and Silas were loud enough in the prison to bring the jailer trembling and repenting.

I think the earthquake and the opened doors and the fear of punishment for escaping prisoners are what really scared him. He would have been held responsible if any prisoners escaped. Whatever scared him, it turned out OK. He and his whole family were saved and baptized in water before the night was over.

[crakjak]

I think the earthquake and the opened doors and the fear of punishment for escaping prisoners are what really scared him. He would have been held responsible if any prisoners escaped. Whatever scared him, it turned out OK. He and his whole family were saved and baptized in water before the night was over.

I'm sure you are right, however they were singing and praying before the earthquake. I guess we don't really know how loud they were, do we?