Ted Haggard

[Dedicated Mind]

Ted Haggard, the mega church pastor caught with a male prostitute and with a 22 year old male member of his church is now starting a new church in colorado springs.

http://www.denverpost.com/commented/ci_15209433?source=commented-news

question: Can fallen pastors like Haggard and Swaggart be rehabilatated or should they stay retired? Are they more broken and more sensitive to broken people or are they career ministers who have no other choice but to preach?

[oletime]

Stay retired , be a servant and submitt to another pastor

[Jeffrey]

I'm not sure.

I think what is wise, for the sake of Christianity not being a stumblingblock, and the national spotlight of these sins, it may be best to be in a supportive role.

Of course, the whole picture of Christianity is one of the fallen being redeemed. But what makes this hard for an unbeliever, is that the person was discovered to be a hypocrite. Though repented (we believe), it's very difficult.

David fell and was still the radiant and might man "after God's own heart." The same with Peter, the same with Noah, Abraham, Jonah, etc...

[edjen01]

Ted Haggard, the mega church pastor caught with a male prostitute and with a 22 year old male member of his church is now starting a new church in colorado springs.

http://www.denverpost.com/commented/ci_15209433?source=commented-news

question: Can fallen pastors like Haggard and Swaggart be rehabilatated or should they stay retired? Are they more broken and more sensitive to broken people or are they career ministers who have no other choice but to preach?

i do not believe that sin can be "rehabilatated" from...but it can be confessed, forgiven & remitted.

however, since these men did serve in a public office and held public trust...I believe they should work at becoming people of character so they are again worthy of that public trust. I do not believe their sin makes them any more sensitive to others...other than to strip their pride & the humility that comes with that.

People are drawn to leaders and these men will draw people no matter if they are on a public or private scale.

[pelathais]

"... no plans for a reality TV show..."

That's kind of a sad commentary on our times, the fact that such a thing would even be asked under these circumstances.

If he stays faithful to his wife, if he has truly dropped the drugs that appear to have fueled his bizarre sexcapades and if he can truly help other "broken people" - then we'll see. But personally, I'm tired of this show already.

[Sam]

I think we have to go to the Bible for that.

David was a man after God's own heart. God chose him to be king over Israel and to be the father/sire/ancestor for His own Son who would some day come as a man to rule over the earth as King of kings and Lord of lords.

David started off well, but failed. He committed adultery and murder and lied to cover it up. If David could be restored, cleansed, and forgiven then there is hope for some of the rest of us. I guess we need to look at whether David was ever effective for God after that or not. Do we accept any of the stuff he wrote after his fall as being inspired of God and Scripture? Do we accept any of his lineage born after his little tryst with Bath Sheba as proper for the lineage of the Son of God? Was David set aside and replaced by someone else in the program of God?

[crakjak]

I think we have to go to the Bible for that.

David was a man after God's own heart. God chose him to be king over Israel and to be the father/sire/ancestor for His own Son who would some day come as a man to rule over the earth as King of kings and Lord of lords.

David started off well, but failed. He committed adultery and murder and lied to cover it up. If David could be restored, cleansed, and forgiven then there is hope for some of the rest of us. I guess we need to look at whether David was ever effective for God after that or not. Do we accept any of the stuff he wrote after his fall as being inspired of God and Scripture? Do we accept any of his lineage born after his little tryst with Bath Sheba as proper for the lineage of the Son of God? Was David set aside and replaced by someone else in the program of God?

Yes Sam, the facts sure do get in the way of our humanity doesn't it??? I pray that Ted has truly repented and committed to living Godly in this present world. He is flawed like David and the rest of us, but it sure goes against our grain, maybe because we don't trust ourselves????

[GraceAmazing]

To be honest, I am not sure how I feel about this...I do believe in restoration, forgiveness, repentance and restoration again...but I am not sure about starting a church in the same town...or about starting a church at all...I do not think it is a biblical issue so much with me....more about respect? Does that make sense? probably not....I don't know...need to think about this....

[Jeffrey]

To be honest, I am not sure how I feel about this...I do believe in restoration, forgiveness, repentance and restoration again...but I am not sure about starting a church in the same town...or about starting a church at all...I do not think it is a biblical issue so much with me....more about respect? Does that make sense? probably not....I don't know...need to think about this....

The qualificatons of an elder, one of them is blameless.

Spiritual oversight is a matter of mutual submission and trust. That will be hard for Ted.

[GraceAmazing]

I do agree with that Jeffrey...I think submission is hard for a lot of ministers....

[Jeffrey]

Qualifications for Overseers
1The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. 2Therefore an overseermust be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, 5for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God’s church? 6He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.

Qualifications for Deacons
8Deacons likewise must be dignified, not double-tongued, not addicted to much wine,not greedy for dishonest gain. 9They must hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. 10And let them also be tested first; then let them serve as deacons if they prove themselves blameless. 11Their wives likewise must be dignified, not slanderers, but sober-minded,faithful in all things. 12Let deacons each be the husband of one wife, managing their children and their own households well. 13For those who serve well as deacons gain a good standing for themselves and also great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.

[ILG]

I think he disqualified himself. A lay minister, maybe, but not a senior pastor. And I have to wonder about the motives of starting a church there.

[GraceAmazing]

Me too...wondering about his motives I mean...why not let things just rest...

[Timmy]

Me too...wondering about his motives I mean...why not let things just rest...

Selling life insurance didn't work out, I guess?

[GraceAmazing]

You are too funny Mr. Timmy ;) I guess not tho...he is actually from a town about 35 miles from where I grew up...nobody there has too many nice things to say about him...sad...

[Jason B]

I do not believe he should serve in the ministry. There are many qualifications he is lacking from 1 Timothy 3.

The example of David is not the same. David's example is closer to that of Bill Clinton. Sure Clinton failed, but He could repent and still serve God. (I'm not indicating that BC was or is saved, only making the point that there is a difference between a political leader and a spiritual leader).

Furthermore, this whole thing came to light prety recently. I think these guys want to preach because they don't want to work a secular job. Todd Bentley comes to mind. They are exposed with some scandal, and it seems just as soon as its no longer national news thy're chomping at the bit to get back. It smacks of a hirling to me, not repentance.

[Sam]

[QUOTE=Jason Badejo;920297
...
Furthermore, this whole thing came to light prety recently. I think these guys want to preach because they don't want to work a secular job. Todd Bentley comes to mind. They are exposed with some scandal, and it seems just as soon as its no longer national news thy're chomping at the bit to get back. It smacks of a hirling to me, not repentance.[/QUOTE]

There may be more to it than their not wanting to work a secular job.
Maybe they have a call of God and they can never be satisfied working a secular job. Because of the way God wired them, they HAVE to be in ministry. Sure, they are flawed, but aren't we all?

[Jason B]

There may be more to it than their not wanting to work a secular job.
Maybe they have a call of God and they can never be satisfied working a secular job. Because of the way God wired them, they HAVE to be in ministry. Sure, they are flawed, but aren't we all?


Sam, this is bologna.

We're all flawed. The Spiritual man must kep the flesh under subjection, and none of us have that mastered. however there is a big difference between being not yet made perfect, and running around living a secret life filled with adultery, homosexuality (paying for sex with other men at that) and rampant drug use that would put some street junkies to shame, THEN within a short time of being exposed, all of a sudden everything is all right?

I'm sick of this anything goes Christianity. I think its time for someone to take a stand in the church. There's alot of folks who think taking a stand means women wear dresses, and men shave their beards, but thats not what God's concerned with.

however I am quite certain that God is concerned with people bringing shame to the name of Christ, which is why the Word of God specifically condemns many of the actions of TH. Lying, adultery, fornication, effeminate, etc. Its like reading 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 yet it doesn't seem to matter to some of you folks.

Can TH be saved, I would say if he truly repents, my opinion would be yes. But He should repent and be greatful to God for the grace and mercy of God. But Pastor, I don't think so, and I don't think there is any scripture for someone to pastor after doing such things, and being found out by the world AFTER they are a Christian.

There's a HUGE difference in being a liar, adulterer, fornicator, abuser, etc. as a sinner, then converting VERSES being a well known "man of God" who garners national attention for doing all of those things.

And again, its not like He backslid, went under the radar for a while and after sitting under another ministry and being evaluated for a while came back. He came back almost as quickly as He left.

As for the call of God. Maybe God does have a call on his life, the gifts of God are without repentance. I don't believe that if a minister sins God takes the call or burden out of their heart, but they must face the reality that they have disqualified themselves from the ministry.

Again I repeat, I don't think David should be considered in an issue like this. The question isn't can this man repent and find forgiveness, the question is does he have business having the spiritual authoridy/guidance over other believers, including new converts and babes in Christ. I say absolutely not.

[ManOfWord]

Well for me, as someone who has interacted with Ted over the years: I used to follow him on Twitter. But it just seemed that he was obsessed with any positive news about himself. It seemed to me like he was trying to prove to himself that he was restored or something. I know God has forgiven him, if he asked, but personally, I don't think it's ethical to start a church in the same city. At least it's not very classy. I wish him the best, but something just doesn't sit right with me. Maybe it's just me. :D

[Jermyn Davidson]

Well for me, as someone who has interacted with Ted over the years: I used to follow him on Twitter. But it just seemed that he was obsessed with any positive news about himself. It seemed to me like he was trying to prove to himself that he was restored or something. I know God has forgiven him, if he asked, but personally, I don't think it's ethical to start a church in the same city. At least it's not very classy. I wish him the best, but something just doesn't sit right with me. Maybe it's just me. :D

Maybe he's got something to prove... to others and himself.


Is there something to be said for the fact that he purposely did not go to a place where he would not be known to restart his ministry?

It's like he is putting himself on blast for all to see.

Talk about accountability!!!

[Hoovie]

I do not believe he should serve in the ministry. There are many qualifications he is lacking from 1 Timothy 3.

The example of David is not the same. David's example is closer to that of Bill Clinton. Sure Clinton failed, but He could repent and still serve God. (I'm not indicating that BC was or is saved, only making the point that there is a difference between a political leader and a spiritual leader).

Furthermore, this whole thing came to light prety recently. I think these guys want to preach because they don't want to work a secular job. Todd Bentley comes to mind. They are exposed with some scandal, and it seems just as soon as its no longer national news thy're chomping at the bit to get back. It smacks of a hirling to me, not repentance.

Ditto. :thumbsup

And repentance is not the question. As you said, it's qualification.

[edjen01]

Sam, this is bologna.

We're all flawed. The Spiritual man must kep the flesh under subjection, and none of us have that mastered. however there is a big difference between being not yet made perfect, and running around living a secret life filled with adultery, homosexuality (paying for sex with other men at that) and rampant drug use that would put some street junkies to shame, THEN within a short time of being exposed, all of a sudden everything is all right?

I'm sick of this anything goes Christianity. I think its time for someone to take a stand in the church. There's alot of folks who think taking a stand means women wear dresses, and men shave their beards, but thats not what God's concerned with.

however I am quite certain that God is concerned with people bringing shame to the name of Christ, which is why the Word of God specifically condemns many of the actions of TH. Lying, adultery, fornication, effeminate, etc. Its like reading 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 yet it doesn't seem to matter to some of you folks.

Can TH be saved, I would say if he truly repents, my opinion would be yes. But He should repent and be greatful to God for the grace and mercy of God. But Pastor, I don't think so, and I don't think there is any scripture for someone to pastor after doing such things, and being found out by the world AFTER they are a Christian.

There's a HUGE difference in being a liar, adulterer, fornicator, abuser, etc. as a sinner, then converting VERSES being a well known "man of God" who garners national attention for doing all of those things.

And again, its not like He backslid, went under the radar for a while and after sitting under another ministry and being evaluated for a while came back. He came back almost as quickly as He left.

As for the call of God. Maybe God does have a call on his life, the gifts of God are without repentance. I don't believe that if a minister sins God takes the call or burden out of their heart, but they must face the reality that they have disqualified themselves from the ministry.

Again I repeat, I don't think David should be considered in an issue like this. The question isn't can this man repent and find forgiveness, the question is does he have business having the spiritual authoridy/guidance over other believers, including new converts and babes in Christ. I say absolutely not.

WOW!!! thats a pretty high standard...in fact...I think only Christ himself lived up to that one.

if God can forgive any sin...then I must believe that He can also restore. He uses all sorts of vessels...even ones I don't agree with.

[Sam]

WOW!!! thats a pretty high standard...in fact...I think only Christ himself lived up to that one.

if God can forgive any sin...then I must believe that He can also restore. He uses all sorts of vessels...even ones I don't agree with.

This is not to get off the subject, but when I saw your post, I thought of a John Wimber quote.
We have all been called to love the things Jesus loves, so we have no choice but to love the whole church --even the denominations whose beliefs we may not agree with or those parts we do not understand. John Wimber

[allstate1]

Well didnt Peter deny Christ? I would think that is a (bad) sin. We stll believe in his writings and some even unto salvation! ie Acts 2:38

[Sam]

Well didnt Peter deny Christ? I would think that is a (bad) sin. We stll believe in his writings and some even unto salvation! ie Acts 2:38

Notice where Jesus sent His disciples to start out.
He sent them to Jerusalem.
--back to where they had all scattered and run away
--back to where Peter had publicly denied Him three times
--back to where people had heard of them and had seen them off and on over a period of time and were acquainted with their humanness and weakness
--back to where they were controversial and followers of a controversial "new" religion
--back to a "religious" center
--back to where the concept of grace and forgiveness were unknown, and buried under tradition and performance based religion
--back to where the "church world leaders" of the time did not agree with them and worked against them using the religious and political power of the day.

It would have been much easier to go off somewhere where they were unknown and make a new start but Jesus had them face their failures and inadequacies and rumor and gossip and depend on His power and anointing.

The religious world of today does not have much of a concept of grace and forgiveness and starting over with God. They tend to hold the past against us. They don't realize that God is in the business of creating new creatures and that His mercies are new every morning.

[Aquila]

I have mixed feelings about it. Probably too soon to get into something so big. He needs to be tested by a little more time in my opinion. Even with that said... I'd be more comfortable if he wasn't a senior pastor.

I wonder how many of the dear pastors we love would be looked at if we knew their secret faults, sins, and struggles....

[Jason B]

WOW!!! thats a pretty high standard...in fact...I think only Christ himself lived up to that one.

if God can forgive any sin...then I must believe that He can also restore. He uses all sorts of vessels...even ones I don't agree with.

One word:

CONTEXT

Hoovie understood the point I was making perfectly, I think you missed it.

[seekerman]

Folks can freely decide to attend church there or not, it's not like anyone would be forced to attend. If they're comfortable with Haggard as their pastor then so be it.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Maybe he's got something to prove... to others and himself.


Is there something to be said for the fact that he purposely did not go to a place where he would not be known to restart his ministry?

It's like he is putting himself on blast for all to see.

Talk about accountability!!!

Folks can freely decide to attend church there or not, it's not like anyone would be forced to attend. If they're comfortable with Haggard as their pastor then so be it.


I agree.

Again, I think it was a very gutsy decision to make to go back there and Pastor. It wouldn't surprise me to find out if he actually felt impressed by the Lord to do this.


Ted Haggard has nothing more to hide. Hopefully.

What an awesome freedom he must experiencing, if he is really free from the clutches of that destructive, secret sin.


Maybe the Lord will use Haggard to spark some kind of revival, a restoration of sorts for all of the hurting and sinning Christians and former Christians.


I hope the scripture that would apply to his life and ministry is Haggai 2:9.

It's definitely not impossible.