Signs of God's Coming

[Redeeming Love]

There has been so much that has happened in the past six months that make me know that God is so very soon to come. Did you know that there are earthquakes happening everyday? The earthquake that happened in Haiti actually shook the entire world and moved the earth of its axis...effectively shortening the length of the day. Can you believe that???!!! God's Word is being fulfilled everyday. I just want to be ready. We need to keep letting people know that God is soon to come.

God is pouring out His Spirit and signs of His coming are clear. Check out this video too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17n3H8R20fg

[Sam]

when you speak of signs of God's coming,

what do you mean by coming?

the rapture?
or His return to earth?

If the "rapture" is a surprise coming, why are there signs that will precede it?

[Redeeming Love]

I'm referring to the Rapture. Some people would be surprised to know that I don't believe the rapture will be altogether a surprise event. Jesus says that no man knoweth the day or the hour but He never said that we wouldn't know the season. That's why He told His disciples that when you see these things look up for your redemption draweth nigh.

But even if someone doesn't believe in the rapture per se they'd have to admit that in some way the signs are evident that judgement is about to fall and is even beginning to happen now, after which I believe most people believe that Jesus will be returning to earth.

But I believe that the Bible says that His Church will be kept from the worst of the destruction that is to come

[Hoovie]

I believe it has been documented that earthquakes are actually decreasing.... hmmm... if true, what would this mean?

[Hoovie]

Interesting Video.

[SRM]

Jesus said the earthquakes were a sign leading up to the Tribulation and he very precisely told his disciples..when YOU shall see...not they that see..his audience was his disciples and He was telling THEM things THEY would see in THEIR lifetime..so many do not grasp this simple truth..

[shag]

Jesus said the earthquakes were a sign leading up to the Tribulation and he very precisely told his disciples..when YOU shall see...not they that see..his audience was his disciples and He was telling THEM things THEY would see in THEIR lifetime..so many do not grasp this simple truth..

Yep. Just like when He told them to pray that their flights(they did go on to escape wrath & flee to Pella) not be in the winter, or on the sabbath.

Or even when He told them they would be persecuted in the synagogues.



Per the video song, according to scripture John the baptist was the only voice in the wilderness crying "prepare ye the way of the Lord". I'm not sure why we have all these songs now that say we are the ones fullfilling that prophesy. And John said the Kingdom was at hand then, which means its already been here for a long time.
I did think the clouds looking like 2 eyes was pretty cool.

[Redeeming Love]

"Jesus said the earthquakes were a sign leading up to the Tribulation and he very precisely told his disciples..when YOU shall see...not they that see..his audience was his disciples and He was telling THEM things THEY would see in THEIR lifetime..so many do not grasp this simple truth.."

Maybe I'm not quite understanding what you are saying. Are you saying that the disciples saw these signs and if so do you believe that the tribulation has already happened?

I look at the fact that the disciples specifically asked what would be the signs of His coming and of the end of the world. Not whether or not they would see it. They simply asked what are the signs and Jesus told them what the signs would be. Otherwise why hasn't Jesus returned? why hasn't the world ended? It's been 2000 years.

I mean you have to admit that we are seeing the signs that Jesus talked about. Wars and Rumors of Wars. The earthquake that hit Haiti literally moved the earth of it's axis and the shortened the length of the day. The headline literally said that the length of the day had been shortened. If that's not Bible Prophecy being fulfilled I don't know what is.


"Yep. Just like when He told them to pray that their flights(they did go on to escape wrath & flee to Pella) not be in the winter, or on the sabbath.

Or even when He told them they would be persecuted in the synagogues.

Per the video song, according to scripture John the baptist was the only voice in the wilderness crying "prepare ye the way of the Lord". I'm not sure why we have all these songs now that say we are the ones fullfilling that prophesy. And John said the Kingdom was at hand then, which means its already been here for a long time.
I did think the clouds looking like 2 eyes was pretty cool. "

Even now Jews who believe that Jesus is the Messiah are persecuted and cast out from their synagogues. Regarding John the Baptist, I thought the same thing at first but then I reread what John actually said. He was preparing the people for Jesus' coming, yes but he was also crying out "Prepare ye the way of the Lord" he was commanding the people to prepare the way of the Lord. To declare the Truth of God to the nations. In essence when we are witnessing to people we are preparing the way for them to accept God on a personal level.

I thought the eyes in the clouds were just amazing! :)

I love these types of discussions... Thanks everyone for responding!

[Redeeming Love]

Actually the numbers of earthquakes are steadily increasing overall decade by decade. If you look at it year by year, you'll have a year that spikes and then one or two years that there aren't as many earthquakes as it was that one year. But then it'll spike again and it never goes back down to what our levels used to be. It gradually and steadily increases. I'll have to ask her what the link is but she saw this chart of the seismographic activity in the past three decades. She said that the pattern actually resembles that of labor contractions. "For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. " Travailing is usually used in reference to a woman in labor... I find this whole time period exciting and sorrowful. Exciting because it means that my Saviour is coming. Sorrowful because there are so many out there who don't know God's love

[TJJJ]

There has been so much that has happened in the past six months that make me know that God is so very soon to come. Did you know that there are earthquakes happening everyday? The earthquake that happened in Haiti actually shook the entire world and moved the earth of its axis...effectively shortening the length of the day. Can you believe that???!!! God's Word is being fulfilled everyday. I just want to be ready. We need to keep letting people know that God is soon to come.

God is pouring out His Spirit and signs of His coming are clear. Check out this video too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17n3H8R20fg

WOW!!!!

The earth moved off it's axis? WOW!!!!

I knew there was something wrong when I couldn't walk straight the other night! I kept telling that cop it was not my fault! Now I have something to tell the judge when I go in for my dui! It was that the earthquake in haiti knocked the earth off it's axis and now the world is wobbling and that was why i could not walk straight!

And now the days are shortened? WOW!!!

See, I knew there was a reason I was late for my job! Those people fired me and it was not even my fault! It is Haitis fault!

Thank you friend for pointing out these things, they are going to help me!

[Timmy]

:lol

[Redeeming Love]

LOL...:lol:lol . You're funny! The Bible says a merry heart(laughter) does good like a medicine. But seriously it really did happen it was front page news! I hope that it really does help someone to realize that the times of the end are closer then ever before!

Thank you for your comment and God Bless

[pelathais]

Actually the numbers of earthquakes are steadily increasing overall decade by decade. If you look at it year by year, you'll have a year that spikes and then one or two years that there aren't as many earthquakes as it was that one year. But then it'll spike again and it never goes back down to what our levels used to be. It gradually and steadily increases. I'll have to ask her what the link is but she saw this chart of the seismographic activity in the past three decades. She said that the pattern actually resembles that of labor contractions. "For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. " Travailing is usually used in reference to a woman in labor... I find this whole time period exciting and sorrowful. Exciting because it means that my Saviour is coming. Sorrowful because there are so many out there who don't know God's love

From the USGS site:

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eqarchives/year/eqstats.php

The attached graph covers just the years 2000 - 2009. There are more charts as well at this site. To me, it looks like random chaos. There are "spikes" in smaller quakes leading up to a larger quake, and that is followed by after shocks as things in the region start to settle down.

World wide, I can discern no pattern here other than the fact that most quakes happen around deep sea trenches where the older sea floor is subducting beneath a continental plate.

There are also rifts in the continental plates where you will have swarms of earthquake activity, such as Nevada, the San Luis Valley in Colorado and New Mexico and the New Madrid fault in the Missouri and Ohio River basins.

[Timmy]

http://www.thehorizonproject.com/earthquakes.cfm

[Redeeming Love]

"http://www.thehorizonproject.com/earthquakes.cfm" - Thanks Timmy :)

This chart clearly shows the increase in earthquakes and intensity over the years. Especially in the last decade.

[shag]

Scripture reads that John the baptist was the ONE voice crying prepare ye the way of the Lord, and it was HE who Isaiah was prophetically referencing, not us.

Matt. 3:3 This is he who was spoken of through the prophet Isaiah:
"A voice of one calling in the desert,
'Prepare the way for the Lord ....


:)

[helen_febus]

Jesus said the earthquakes were a sign leading up to the Tribulation and he very precisely told his disciples..when YOU shall see...not they that see..his audience was his disciples and He was telling THEM things THEY would see in THEIR lifetime..so many do not grasp this simple truth..

This is so True!


God Bless,


Helen Febus

[Timmy]

Jesus said the earthquakes were a sign leading up to the Tribulation and he very precisely told his disciples..when YOU shall see...not they that see..his audience was his disciples and He was telling THEM things THEY would see in THEIR lifetime..so many do not grasp this simple truth..

And? Did they see earthquakes in divers places, in their lifetimes? Famines, pestilences, wars, rumors of wars? Did the world end?

[Timmy]

And? Did they see earthquakes in divers places, in their lifetimes? Famines, pestilences, wars, rumors of wars? Did the world end?

:bumpsign

[SteppingStone]

And? Did they see earthquakes in divers places, in their lifetimes? Famines, pestilences, wars, rumors of wars? Did the world end?

World in that passage is rendered Age. The age of Law keeping ended and grace came on the scene. Yes all those things occurred in the, "Known World," The Roman Empire....

[Timmy]

World in that passage is rendered Age. The age of Law keeping ended and grace came on the scene. Yes all those things occurred in the, "Known World," The Roman Empire....

Did Jesus' disciples know they were asking about the age of law, when they asked Jesus about the end of the world? Famines, pestilences, wars, rumors of wars, and earthquakes in divers places in the Roman Empire were signs that the age of grace was coming?

[SteppingStone]

Did Jesus' disciples know they were asking about the age of law, when they asked Jesus about the end of the world? Famines, pestilences, wars, rumors of wars, and earthquakes in divers places in the Roman Empire were signs that the age of grace was coming?


Obviously better than you and I, they spoke the same language and asked the same question...

Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

αἰών (aiōn) "Age"

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G165&t=KJV

http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=end+of+the+world&t=KJV

Click on numbers..

[Timmy]

Obviously better than you and I, they spoke the same language and asked the same question...

Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

αἰών (aiōn) "Age"

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G165&t=KJV

http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=end+of+the+world&t=KJV

Click on numbers..

Famines, pestilences, wars, rumors of wars, and earthquakes in divers places in the Roman Empire were signs that the age of grace was coming?

[SteppingStone]

Famines, pestilences, wars, rumors of wars, and earthquakes in divers places in the Roman Empire were signs that the age of grace was coming?

Grace came on Pentecost (The Holy Ghost,) at which point the Age of the Law expired. The judgment Of God was the "Coming of The Lord" in which all those other things you mentioned occurred..

The people had 40 years, from 30 AD to 70 AD. That's why those that understood or believed sold everything they had. Some left the scene early, others who were less selfish stayed beyind trying to "Save" their brethren..

If we knew China was going to wipe out the good ole USA many would sell everything and move, very few would stick around to "Save" their countrymen..

Will you save me Timmy??:bliss

[Timmy]

Grace came on Pentecost (The Holy Ghost,) at which point the Age of the Law expired. The judgment Of God was the "Coming of The Lord" in which all those other things you mentioned occurred..

The people had 40 years, from 30 AD to 70 AD. That's why those that understood or believed sold everything they had. Some left the scene early, others who were less selfish stayed beyind trying to "Save" their brethren..

If we knew China was going to wipe out the good ole USA many would sell everything and move, very few would stick around to "Save" their countrymen..

Will you save me Timmy??:bliss

How much time do we have? :lol

OK, I think what you're saying is the disciples were asking about two things that were 40 years apart (though I don't suppose they knew that at the time, and I'm not sure they did after they heard Jesus' answer, either. ;)). The end of the world was just a few weeks away, and the return of Christ was 40 years away.

The signs listed were about the return, and not the end of the world (age), I suppose. And you claim that there were, in fact, famines, pestilences, earthquakes in divers places, wars, and rumors of wars, and nations rose up against nations, during those 40 years. Is that correct? Oh, and (Matthew 24:14) the gospel was preached in all the world (is that, too, just the Roman Empire -- the "known world"?)?

[SteppingStone]

How much time do we have? :lol

OK, I think what you're saying is the disciples were asking about two things that were 40 years apart (though I don't suppose they knew that at the time, and I'm not sure they did after they heard Jesus' answer, either. ;)). The end of the world was just a few weeks away, and the return of Christ was 40 years away.

The signs listed were about the return, and not the end of the world (age), I suppose. And you claim that there were, in fact, famines, pestilences, earthquakes in divers places, wars, and rumors of wars, and nations rose up against nations, during those 40 years. Is that correct? Oh, and (Matthew 24:14) the gospel was preached in all the world (is that, too, just the Roman Empire -- the "known world"?)?

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

It was about That Generation. God does things in 40 years spans all thru the bible.

30 AD (Jesus Teaching) till 70 AD (Apostles Preaching.)

Here Paul says it was preached in all the world (Known World--Roman Empire.) And every "Creature."

Colossians 1:5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

If you here from God about China over throwing the USA let me know Timmy!!!:bliss

[rawooddell]

The shorter and longer day
A researcher at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory said the quake was so powerful that it gave a kick to Earth's figure axis. The computer model used by geophysicist Richard Gross suggests that the quake shortened the length of an Earth day by 1.26 microseconds (or millionths of a second). "This change should be permanent," Gross told Space.com.

Changing the length of a day may sound like an impressive feat, but in fact that��magnitude of change is so small that it's lost over time (so to speak). According to the computer model, the Sumatran earthquake of 2004��shortened��the length of a day more than four times as��much,��by��6.8 microseconds. Seasonal changes in ocean currents and the atmosphere have a still more significant effect, moving the length of a day back and forth over a range of 1 millisecond, or 1,000 microseconds.

In the long run, all those changes will be canceled out by the gradual lengthening of Earth's day that is caused by the transfer of angular momentum to the moon. Apollo-era experiments indicated that the moon is gradually receding from Earth, at a rate of about 3.8 centimeters per year, and that implies that Earth's day should be getting 17 microseconds longer every year.

http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/03/05/4350936-how-quakes-measure-up

[SRM]

Signs of God's coming?..

1 Tim 1:17..God is invisible :)

[Sam]

Some signs of the end

[OilCityCajun]

I've heard it mentioned that the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico is, or could be, a "sign of the times". Who is to say a giant deep sea oil rig doesnt look like a mountain to a man who has never seen an oil rig?

Revlations 8:8-9 "And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;(9)And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed."

Except the oil spill hasnt destroyed any ships...yet. Perhaps rather than being literally destroyed, they were simply removed from the sea? Would all the inactive commercial and recreational fishing ships/boats which once plied the waters of the Gulf come to about 1/3 the maritime traffic in the Gulf? Could it be that he saw them removed from the sea and assumed they had been destroyed?

I know it's a lot of supposition but it's enough to make one think.

[shag]

Please....tell me you're kidding

[OilCityCajun]

I didnt say I believe it. But I do find it plausible.

[SteppingStone]

Some signs of the end


http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/rma/lowres/rman6795l.jpg

[OneAccord]

To me, the surest signs of the coming of the Lord aren't in earthquakes, famines, disease and pestilence. Sure, these natural calamities are spoken of by the Lord as signs of His appearing, but, well, the earth has had death and destruction since, well, since Cain killed Abel. There has always been natural disasters, and as the earth ages, these calamaties will continue, and maybe even increase in frequency and/or severity.

I believe the truest ands surest sign of the Lord's coming is found in John 17 where Jesus prayed for the unity of His Church. The Bible tells us we are to "endeavor to keep the unity of the Spirit". The 5 fold ministry was given to bring us into unity. But, then again, I could be wrong.... if UNITY -the perfection of His church- is, in fact, a prerequisite for His coming, then I'd have to say we have a long, Long, LONG wait for His coming! When this strife riddled ragtag we call His Church becomes the church Paul refers to as A GLORIOUS CHURCH, then we will be presented unto Him. Unbag your bags, boys, this may take awhile. We can't even agree on the fundamentals of Acts 2:38!

[SRM]

To me, the surest signs of the coming of the Lord aren't in earthquakes, famines, disease and pestilence. Sure, these natural calamities are spoken of by the Lord as signs of His appearing, but, well, the earth has had death and destruction since, well, since Cain killed Abel. There has always been natural disasters, and as the earth ages, these calamaties will continue, and maybe even increase in frequency and/or severity.

I believe the truest ands surest sign of the Lord's coming is found in John 17 where Jesus prayed for the unity of His Church. The Bible tells us we are to "endeavor to keep the unity of the Spirit". The 5 fold ministry was given to bring us into unity. But, then again, I could be wrong.... if UNITY -the perfection of His church- is, in fact, a prerequisite for His coming, then I'd have to say we have a long, Long, LONG wait for His coming! When this strife riddled ragtag we call His Church becomes the church Paul refers to as A GLORIOUS CHURCH, then we will be presented unto Him. Unbag your bags, boys, this may take awhile. We can't even agree on the fundamentals of Acts 2:38!

If you REALLY look at those signs mentioned..you will see it was Jesus talking to his disciples telling THEM what they would see and it would be occuring not 2000 yrs later,but prior to the fall of Jerusalem..better known as the "great tribulation"

[Aquila]

I'll throw a wrench in things here. While I believe the Olivet Disourse covers the events of AD 70, I think Preterists fail to see something very important. Let's look at a part of the Olivet Discourse in Luke,

Luke 21:20-28
{21:20} And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with
armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
{21:21} Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the
mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart
out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
{21:22} For these be the days of vengeance, that all things
which are written may be fulfilled. {21:23} But woe unto
them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those
days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath
upon this people. {21:24} And they shall fall by the edge of
the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations:
and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until
the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
{21:25} And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the
moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of
nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
{21:26} Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking
after those things which are coming on the earth: for the
powers of heaven shall be shaken. {21:27} And then shall
they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and
great glory. {21:28} And when these things begin to come
to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your
redemption draweth nigh.

I believe we see how Jesus warned the disciples that when THEY saw Jerusalem surrounded by armies THEY were to know that it’s desolation was nigh. For this reason Christians fled Jerusalem at the first sight of the Roman armies gathering to surround the city. It’s been said that because they heeded this prophecy not a single Christian perished in the siege of Jerusalem.

But then we read something interesting. Jesus then describes the subsequent events AFTER the siege. Christ states,

“{21:24} And they shall fall by the edge of
the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations:
and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until
the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”

Jesus states that the surviving inhabitants of Jerusalem would be led away captive into all nations. This is known as the Diaspora. The Jewish survivors were led away captive from Judea and scattered across the Roman Empire. The Jews lived in this exile for nearly 2,000 years. This is why the Jews could be found in Germany and Russian during WWII. Jesus clearly said that this “Diaspora” would last “until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.” That means that Christ’s words would encompass all of history leading up to the resettlement of Judea by the Jews after the nation of Israel was established in 1948. This would mean that the “times of the Gentiles” began closing in May of 1948.

The next statement given by Jesus leads us forward from 1948 to the present day…

{21:25} And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the
moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of
nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
{21:26} Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking
after those things which are coming on the earth: for the
powers of heaven shall be shaken.

Here we are told that from 1948 until the Second Coming we’d see mysterious astrological phenomena, distress of nations (with perplexity), the sea and the waves roaring (oceanic disturbances), epidemic stress and anxiety experienced by mankind after seeing the “powers of the heaven shaken”. This could mean the fall of established governments throughout the world. Or it could mean that mankind would experience epidemic anxiety after seeing something that unleashes enough power to “shake the heavens”. So this could also be pointing to the power of nuclear warfare.

Then we read….

{21:27} And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. {21:28} And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

We then see Jesus say, “And then shall THEY (not YE, as in the disciples) see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.” Notice Jesus shifted from saying “when ye shall see” to “then shall they see”. Jesus then tells the disciples that when they see these things “begin to come to pass” they are to look up, and lift up their heads, for their redemption was drawing near.

Indeed the disciples’ generation saw those things “begin to come to pass” in AD 70, thus fulfilling all written in Luke 21:20-24. However, they are not specifically told here in Luke that they would see the events following the Diaspora leading up to our present day.

Those who claim that all was fulfilled in AD 70 are not taking any of this into account. That means that our generation may be the one to see the fulfillment of Luke 21:25-28.

Seeing that Christ himself stated that not even he knew the hour of his return, it behooves us to understand that not even Jesus could tell us a timeframe. Thus we need to understand that in Matthew and Mark, it might be natural for Jesus (or Matthew and Mark) to not have allowed for nearly a 2,000 year gap of history between the desolation of Judea and the Second Coming. This would be called the "mountain peaks of prophecy" theory.

http://www.bible.org/assets/pagegrapics/rev-1.gif

To Jesus and the listener the events discribed may have seemed one after the other without regards to the valley of history existing between the two. Thus Matthew and Mark's rendition of the Olivet Discourse must be interpreted with this in mind.

[Aquila]

What? No challengers?

[Timmy]

What? No challengers?

You win! :clap

[Aquila]

You win! :clap

lol

[pastor febus]

And? Did they see earthquakes in divers places, in their lifetimes? Famines, pestilences, wars, rumors of wars? Did the world end?

.................................................. ................................................

Yes, that world (age) did end with the destruction of Jerusalem and its Temple. Read Matthew 24-25

[Aquila]

.................................................. ................................................

Yes, that world (age) did end with the destruction of Jerusalem and its Temple. Read Matthew 24-25

If Luke 21 is kept in mind while interpreting Matthew 24, we can come to the conclusion that these events are yet future. Please address the passage from Luke posted on earlier.

Thanks.

[mfblume]

I just saw the latest additions to this thread. I will respond asap. Have a busy schedule today.

[mfblume]

I'll throw a wrench in things here. While I believe the Olivet Disourse covers the events of AD 70, I think Preterists fail to see something very important. Let's look at a part of the Olivet Discourse in Luke,

Luke 21:20-28
{21:20} And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with
armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
{21:21} Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the
mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart
out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
{21:22} For these be the days of vengeance, that all things
which are written may be fulfilled. {21:23} But woe unto
them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those
days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath
upon this people. {21:24} And they shall fall by the edge of
the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations:
and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until
the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
{21:25} And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the
moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of
nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
{21:26} Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking
after those things which are coming on the earth: for the
powers of heaven shall be shaken. {21:27} And then shall
they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and
great glory. {21:28} And when these things begin to come
to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your
redemption draweth nigh.

I believe we see how Jesus warned the disciples that when THEY saw Jerusalem surrounded by armies THEY were to know that it’s desolation was nigh. For this reason Christians fled Jerusalem at the first sight of the Roman armies gathering to surround the city. It’s been said that because they heeded this prophecy not a single Christian perished in the siege of Jerusalem.

But then we read something interesting. Jesus then describes the subsequent events AFTER the siege. Christ states,

“{21:24} And they shall fall by the edge of
the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations:
and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until
the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”

Jesus states that the surviving inhabitants of Jerusalem would be led away captive into all nations. This is known as the Diaspora. The Jewish survivors were led away captive from Judea and scattered across the Roman Empire. The Jews lived in this exile for nearly 2,000 years. This is why the Jews could be found in Germany and Russian during WWII. Jesus clearly said that this “Diaspora” would last “until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.” That means that Christ’s words would encompass all of history leading up to the resettlement of Judea by the Jews after the nation of Israel was established in 1948. This would mean that the “times of the Gentiles” began closing in May of 1948.

First of all, it is ironic you base the yet future fulfillment upon Luke 21, since futurists believe Luke 21 was AD70 but Matt 24 is not restricted to AD70.

Anyway, I fail to see the conclusion you are making based upon the above passages. Jesus simply said the Jews would be scattered. What is the point? The duration of the scattering is of no consequence.

Are you saying that after the scattering shall the sun and moon change appearance? Why is not simply saying that the Jews alive at that time would be scattered, and then the celestial phenommenon would occur, which I explained elsewhere was a figure of speech and apocalyptic language for the downfall of a kingdom.

The next statement given by Jesus leads us forward from 1948 to the present day…

{21:25} And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the
moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of
nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
{21:26} Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking
after those things which are coming on the earth: for the
powers of heaven shall be shaken.

Here we are told that from 1948 until the Second Coming we’d see mysterious astrological phenomena,

Why do you insist this is not until 1948 and onward?

Indeed the disciples’ generation saw those things “begin to come to pass” in AD 70, thus fulfilling all written in Luke 21:20-24. However, they are not specifically told here in Luke that they would see the events following the Diaspora leading up to our present day.

But THIS GENERATION refers to people alive at that time.

Luk 21:28 CEV When all of this starts happening, stand up straight and be brave. You will soon be set free.


Jesus told those people ALL those things would occur in their generation. In their lifetimes.

[Aquila]

First of all, it is ironic you base the yet future fulfillment upon Luke 21, since futurists believe Luke 21 was AD70 but Matt 24 is not restricted to AD70.

That’s a gross generalization. Futurists might believe that the desolation of Jerusalem depicted in Luke took place in AD 70…but the events depicted after the “times of the gentiles” in Luke are seen as yet future.

Anyway, I fail to see the conclusion you are making based upon the above passages. Jesus simply said the Jews would be scattered. What is the point? The duration of the scattering is of no consequence.

I disagree. Jesus said,

Luke 21:24
{21:24} And they shall fall by the edge of
the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations:
and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until
the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.[/quote]

Notice that Jesus describes the Diaspora of AD 70. Then Christ makes the statement, “…until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled”. This is an important implication. Christ implies that they will be scattered and that Jerusalem will be trodden down UNTIL the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. That implies that there will come a time when the Jews will no longer be scattered and Jerusalem will no longer be trodden down. When we see the Jews back in control of Jerusalem… the times of the Gentiles will have been fulfilled. We didn’t see the Jews return and the Gentile powers over Jerusalem end in AD 70… therefore this MUST be future from a first century perspective.

Are you saying that after the scattering shall the sun and moon change appearance? Why is not simply saying that the Jews alive at that time would be scattered, and then the celestial phenommenon would occur, which I explained elsewhere was a figure of speech and apocalyptic language for the downfall of a kingdom.

Yes and no. The Magi (Persian astrologers) noted astrological phenomena that indicated Christ’s birth. Why wouldn’t Christ’s second coming be any different? This could be depicting solar and lunar eclipses at pivotal moments, pointing to his return. Even Islam believes that a lunar eclipse will take place on the first day of Ramadan and then a solar eclipse will take place half way through Ramadan to herald the coming of the Islamic Al-Mahdi.

Those who are aware of the astrological significance of God’s “clock in the stars” (modern Magis) will most likely see indicators that a great event is about to transpire. Exact timing will most likely remain a mystery.



Why do you insist this is not until 1948 and onward?

Because it wasn’t until 1948 that Jewish power was restored over Jerusalem and the times of Gentile domination ended.


But THIS GENERATION refers to people alive at that time.

[indent]Luk 21:28 CEV When all of this starts happening, stand up straight and be brave. You will soon be set free.


Jesus told those people ALL those things would occur in their generation. In their lifetimes.

Notice Jesus says,

Luke 21:28
{21:28} And when these things begin to come
to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your
redemption draweth nigh.

Notice Jesus said, “when these things BEGIN to come to pass”. Jesus never said they would see the fullness of all that was spoken here. They saw the beginning in AD 70. Notice Christ’s language changes in regards to future events,

[INDENT]Luke 21:26-28
{21:26} Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking
after those things which are coming on the earth: for the
powers of heaven shall be shaken. {21:27} And then shall
THEY see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and
great glory. {21:28} And when these things begin to come
to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your
redemption draweth nigh.[/QUOTE]

Notice Jesus didn’t say, “And then shall YOU see the Son of Man coming…” Christ is speaking of a future generation. Like two mountain peaks with a valley between them…they look like close events….but are many centuries apart.

[Aquila]

No response???

[bshrader32]

God is coming back after a people who has made himself ready without wrinkle,spot,or blemish....the word says not one sin will enter into the kingdom of heaven.holiness without which no man shall see the lord!!!!!!!! The word says you must be born again or u cannot see the kingdom of god and that ye must be born of water and of the spirit or ye cannot enter into the kingdom of god.....god says without the spirit u r none of his......jesus is reaching out his hand for people today but they r not accepting him....jesus is warning the people but they r not taking heed tohis warnings....just as in the days of noah"noah warned the people that the flood was coming but they would not listen.....people today r the same way they have blinded eyes and deafened ears and have hardened their hearts against truth.....but in the end the day of judgement those that would not accept the truth and accept the true plan of salvation peter preached on day of pentacost,and keep all the commandments,and living the holy life will all be judged accordingly to the word of god. I pray we r raptured out before the day that god pours out his wrath among those people.

[Seascapes]

Go to this website and see just how many earthquakes in the last 7 days in the world. It was interesting to me to see this list.

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quakes/quakes_all.php

I watched the History channel last night at 9:00 and these men were telling about America's doom, economy, water, government....it was interesting. I believe Jesus is coming to take His children out of here soon. We need to see the signs of His coming.

[Seascapes]

Quoted "The Magi (Persian astrologers) noted astrological phenomena that indicated Christ’s birth. Why wouldn’t Christ’s second coming be any different?"

Let's don't wait until after He returns......The wise men did not get the sign until after HE came. The star appeared when the LIGHT was born. It took them about two years to follow that LIGHT to find the King of Kings. We are to be wise men and women today, and seek the LIGHT of the Truth, by His Word, and follow Him until He returns for us. To save us from the wrath to come. Jesus is our Salvation.

The difference between the first (born in the flesh) and His return, is FAITH, that we believe what He said, and believe what His apostles said (John 17) More blessed is the ones that believe and have not seen.