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corvet786c
08-22-2010, 06:23 AM
The Jews are Gods people right? Then Why did he allow 10 million Jews to Die in Hitlers Day?

kristian's_mom
08-22-2010, 06:28 AM
Matthew 5:45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Not all Jews are God's chosen people and not all of God's chosen people are Jews.

A.W. Bowman
08-22-2010, 08:25 AM
Consider the life and times of Job.

corvet786c
08-22-2010, 08:33 AM
Consider the life and times of Job.

Job Went thru a lot but he wasn't murdered?

corvet786c
08-22-2010, 08:42 AM
No, but his kids were all killed - and for what reason?

Read carefuly the lase 2-3 chapters of the book.

I dont know? Tell Me?

A.W. Bowman
08-22-2010, 08:46 AM
Sorry - I was deleting my post to quote yours - LOLOL and you had already responded.

Job Went thru a lot but he wasn't murdered?

No, but his kids were all killed - and for what reason?

Read carefully chapters 38-42 of the book.

A.W. Bowman
08-22-2010, 08:49 AM
I dont know? Tell Me?

The simple answer is because God allowed it to happen - for His own purposes.

Again, read the last 5 chapters of Job. How God operates and how we think God should operate. it is all laid out in the text.

Dedicated Mind
08-22-2010, 01:21 PM
I believe the holocaust was prophesied in ezq 37, the valley of dry bones which later became a nation. Itcould have been punishment for rejecting messiah. the nt quotes the jews as saying let his blood be upon us and our children.

Praxeas
08-22-2010, 01:23 PM
Are Jews "God's People"?

Sister Alvear
08-22-2010, 02:26 PM
all people are God's people....

BroGary
08-22-2010, 02:43 PM
Look at all the times in the Old Testament that Israel rebelled and worshipped false gods and God allowed judgement to come upon them. Any people, individual, or nation (including Israel) who rebels against God and does not obey His truth is subject to judgement.

Jesus spoke against Jews who were not following truth is His day.

Matthew 23:30, 31 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

God is no respector of persons. People can reap good or bad reguardless of race or nationality.

As far as on a human level, there are evil Talmud/Kaballa NWO Jews who presecute fellow Jews who just follow the Torah and consider them expendable in their quest for a one world government, the NWO has both Jews and Gentiles in their ranks who are working towards a Luciferian global government. Here is a quote from a related artcle: "Expendable non-Sabbatean Jews had to die in order to disguise this plot"(referring to the holocost) (research sabbatean frankist kaballa talmud nwo ect. for more info)

Praxeas
08-22-2010, 02:54 PM
all people are God's people....
I think by God's people is meant they are still in covenant with God

Sister Alvear
08-22-2010, 02:59 PM
there are lots of why's we will just have to ask God....why did my mother come to visit me in Brazil and have a stroke??? why did she lay 10 months on her death bed here with no insurance that would work here? I don't really know but rest assured He knows all the answers...

corvet786c
08-22-2010, 03:49 PM
Look at all the times in the Old Testament that Israel rebelled and worshipped false gods and God allowed judgement to come upon them. Any people, individual, or nation (including Israel) who rebels against God and does not obey His truth is subject to judgement.

Jesus spoke against Jews who were not following truth is His day


Yea but that was in the Old Testement and Hitler was in the New Testement. People rebell against God everyday? And nothing as horrific what happen between 1940-1945. JMO

BroGary
08-22-2010, 04:39 PM
Look at all the times in the Old Testament that Israel rebelled and worshipped false gods and God allowed judgement to come upon them. Any people, individual, or nation (including Israel) who rebels against God and does not obey His truth is subject to judgement.

Jesus spoke against Jews who were not following truth is His day

Yea but that was in the Old Testement and Hitler was in the New Testement. People rebell against God everyday? And nothing as horrific what happen between 1940-1945. JMO

What about the roughly 20 million killed under the Stalin regime of Communist Russia, and the "cultural revolution" in China under Mao caused roughly 30 million deaths, roughly 2 million were killed in the "killing fields" of Cambodia, that is just a few examples. (who was really behind the communist revolution is a very interesting story in itself)

Let's not forget the approx. 68 million killed during the Spanish Inquistion. Many were Christian martyers.

The New World Order Luciferians include both Jews and Gentiles working together, and they will sacrifice even their own countrymen as their first loyalty is to the formation of a one world government.

http://www.henrymakow.com/what_is_communism.html

http://www.savethemales.ca/001913.html

missourimary
08-23-2010, 04:32 PM
The Jews are Gods people right? Then Why did he allow 10 million Jews to Die in Hitlers Day?

Because God gave humanity free will. He won't stop someone from doing something wicked anymore than He will force them to be saved. What he will do is create positives through or in spite of whatever wickedness has happened if we will let Him, maybe by strengthening us, maybe by letting our testimony be used to reach others, and maybe in some other way.

OnTheFritz
08-23-2010, 05:07 PM
Because God gave humanity free will. He won't stop someone from doing something wicked anymore than He will force them to be saved. What he will do is create positives through or in spite of whatever wickedness has happened if we will let Him, maybe by strengthening us, maybe by letting our testimony be used to reach others, and maybe in some other way.

But he intervenes to prevent car accidents, right?

coadie
08-23-2010, 05:24 PM
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

A.W. Bowman
08-23-2010, 06:16 PM
Attempting to figure out and/or understand or justify God and His ways will only get one a headache. Again, read Job 38-42. Answer God's questions He posed to Job, and see how well you fare.


Added note: I did not fare very well. Actually, I failed the test.

Mr. Smith
08-23-2010, 07:40 PM
I believe the holocaust was prophesied in ezq 37, the valley of dry bones which later became a nation. Itcould have been punishment for rejecting messiah. the nt quotes the jews as saying let his blood be upon us and our children.



Wait, wait, wait.......you think that God engineered the slaughter of millions of Jews as punishment for rejecting Christ???????????????????????????????

My anger at this idiocy couldn't be expressed strongly enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DividedThigh
08-24-2010, 07:40 AM
hang around bro smith, there is no end to the idiocy you will witness, dt

Twisp
08-24-2010, 09:30 AM
Wait, wait, wait.......you think that God engineered the slaughter of millions of Jews as punishment for rejecting Christ???????????????????????????????

My anger at this idiocy couldn't be expressed strongly enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not that I agree with it, but that idea falls in step Biblically with other similar works of God.

Mr. Smith
08-24-2010, 09:42 AM
Not that I agree with it, but that idea falls in step Biblically with other similar works of God.


Good heavens. Surely you jest.

Twisp
08-24-2010, 09:51 AM
Good heavens. Surely you jest.

Not really.

If the majority of Christians believe in a God that will send billions of people to Hell for not choosing Him, why can't Dedicated Mind believe that He allowed 10 million Jews to die for rejecting the Messiah?

missourimary
08-24-2010, 11:06 AM
But he intervenes to prevent car accidents, right?

Sure. Especially if the accident would involve a woman driver who has never cut her hair. :nah

Good heavens. Surely you jest.

You wouldn't believe the number of times I've heard it preached and taught that if bad things happen, you must be either being punished or tested by God. The Bible, especially Job, but also the stories of David, Joseph... even Stephen doesn't support that theory, though.

If the majority of Christians believe in a God that will send billions of people to Hell for not choosing Him, why can't Dedicated Mind believe that He allowed 10 million Jews to die for rejecting the Messiah?
2000 years after the crucifixion, no less, and even those who were Christian converts or who were not Jews but protected and/or hid Jews, and gypsies, and...

coadie
08-24-2010, 11:19 AM
Wait, wait, wait.......you think that God engineered the slaughter of millions of Jews as punishment for rejecting Christ???????????????????????????????

My anger at this idiocy couldn't be expressed strongly enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do you anger easily?

God didn't allow millions into the promised land because of murmering and unbelief. They were ungratefull.

Twisp
08-24-2010, 11:28 AM
2000 years after the crucifixion, no less, and even those who were Christian converts or who were not Jews but protected and/or hid Jews, and gypsies, and...

Biblically, the Lord has allowed harm towards innocents to make a point, so Dedicated Mind is still on solid Biblical ground.

Timmy
08-24-2010, 11:34 AM
Biblically, the Lord has allowed harm towards innocents to make a point, so Dedicated Mind is still on solid Biblical ground.

Or maybe it's just that things happens to people.

OnTheFritz
08-24-2010, 11:38 AM
Biblically, the Lord has allowed harm towards innocents to make a point, so Dedicated Mind is still on solid Biblical ground.

I personally think that the immediate punishment thing is an old testament process. I think that now, He's not willing that any perish prior to repentance, and that judgment will be deferred.

Timmy
08-24-2010, 11:46 AM
I personally think that the immediate punishment thing is an old testament process. I think that now, He's not willing that any perish prior to repentance, and that judgment will be deferred.

But there was Ananias and Sapphira, and some people who take communion "unworthily".

Twisp
08-24-2010, 11:47 AM
Or maybe it's just that things happens to people.

That is my thinking, I was stating the obvious. lol

Stuff happens. People deal with it how they need to, be it assigning to a deity, to randomness, or whatever helps them deal with it.

The Holocaust happened because a certain group of people thought another group were not needed.

Timmy
08-24-2010, 11:49 AM
That is my thinking, I was stating the obvious. lol

Stuff happens. People deal with it how they need to, be it assigning to a deity, to randomness, or whatever helps them deal with it.

The Holocaust happened because a certain group of people thought another group were not needed.

Well, I find it hard to believe that God ever allows "harm towards innocents to make a point".

Twisp
08-24-2010, 12:00 PM
Well, I find it hard to believe that God ever allows "harm towards innocents to make a point".

Tell that to David and Bethsheba's child. Tell that to Job's children and their servants.

Twisp
08-24-2010, 12:05 PM
Well, I find it hard to believe that God ever allows "harm towards innocents to make a point".

And not always to "make a point" like I said, but if one believes that everything happens according to God' will, then yes, one would have to believe that God allows harm to happen towards "innocents".

I know you probably don't believe that, I am just making the point that it could be viewed that way, if one was so inclined to.

Timmy
08-24-2010, 12:07 PM
And not always to "make a point" like I said, but if one believes that everything happens according to God' will, then yes, one would have to believe that God allows harm to happen towards "innocents".

I know you probably don't believe that, I am just making the point that it could be viewed that way, if one was so inclined to.

Yep.

Twisp
08-24-2010, 12:11 PM
Yep.

Right on.

OnTheFritz
08-24-2010, 12:13 PM
Right on.

Allows? Yes. Explicitly causes as punishment? Not sure. I say generally not (yet).

Mr. Smith
08-24-2010, 12:17 PM
If Christianity were to teach, as a whole, that the Jews were killed by the million as punishment for rejecting Jesus, I would NEVER be a Christian.

The comparison to hell isn't valid and if you can't see the difference, you have the theology skills of a walrus.

Mr. Smith
08-24-2010, 12:17 PM
Allows? Yes. Explicitly causes as punishment? Not sure. I say generally not (yet).


EVERYTHING that has ever happened in the history of the universe, God allowed.

Aquila
08-24-2010, 12:19 PM
Not really.

If the majority of Christians believe in a God that will send billions of people to Hell for not choosing Him, why can't Dedicated Mind believe that He allowed 10 million Jews to die for rejecting the Messiah?

I think that the reason millions of Jews died is because political fascists rejected the Messiah.

Aquila
08-24-2010, 12:20 PM
If Christianity were to teach, as a whole, that the Jews were killed by the million as punishment for rejecting Jesus, I would NEVER be a Christian.

The comparison to hell isn't valid and if you can't see the difference, you have the theology skills of a walrus.

Israel's judgment for rejecting Christ was fulfilled in AD 70.

Aquila
08-24-2010, 12:21 PM
The Father's on the back porch watching while sipping iced tea. We're alone in the sandbox boys and girls. Look out for the mean kid with the big shovel.

Twisp
08-24-2010, 12:21 PM
If Christianity were to teach, as a whole, that the Jews were killed by the million as punishment for rejecting Jesus, I would NEVER be a Christian.

The comparison to hell isn't valid and if you can't see the difference, you have the theology skills of a walrus.

Christianity teaches that people will be killed/punished by the billions for rejecting Christ. Where is your outrage on that? lol

Mr. Smith
08-24-2010, 12:25 PM
Christianity teaches that people will be killed/punished by the billions for rejecting Christ. Where is your outrage on that? lol


Like I said, "The theology skills of a Walrus."

So you're going to compare the innocent God-fearing mother of 3, who herself never rejected Christ and was never presented Christ, with eternal punishment of the guilty?

Walrus.

coadie
08-24-2010, 12:26 PM
Christianity teaches that people will be killed/punished by the billions for rejecting Christ. Where is your outrage on that? lol

God always gives a positive. He gives a warning. God never let judgement fall with no warning. The plagues in Revelation are nasty. But they are put in writing for a reason.

After the holocaust, many Jews migrated back to Israel and 1948 the nation was re started.

OnTheFritz
08-24-2010, 12:28 PM
EVERYTHING that has ever happened in the history of the universe, God allowed.

Obviously.

Aquila
08-24-2010, 12:29 PM
All of mankind is infected with a spiritual disease called "sin". The Gospel is the cure. We will reach many with this cure. Many will reject the cure and enter eternity forever twisted and marred by the disease. Many will never have a chance to receive the cure and will therefore suffer the same fate.

Reach as many as you can before it's too late.

coadie
08-24-2010, 12:29 PM
Like I said, "The theology skills of a Walrus."

So you're going to compare the innocent God-fearing mother of 3, who herself never rejected Christ and was never presented Christ, with eternal punishment of the guilty?

Walrus.

Strawman

Twisp
08-24-2010, 12:31 PM
Like I said, "The theology skills of a Walrus."

So you're going to compare the innocent God-fearing mother of 3, who herself never rejected Christ and was never presented Christ, with eternal punishment of the guilty?

Walrus.

lol, I was merely comparing someone thinking a group of people were punished for rejecting God

with

someone else thinking another group of people are going to be punished for rejecting God.

If one is true, then it is plausible for the other to be true.

If all else fails, though, let this self-portrait of myself comfort you...





http://blog.outdoorzy.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/walrus.jpg

coadie
08-24-2010, 12:33 PM
If Christianity were to teach, as a whole, that the Jews were killed by the million as punishment for rejecting Jesus, I would NEVER be a Christian.

.

True Christians submit. They do not set the terms.
The atheists often set conditions which a God must meet. It doesn't work out.

Aquila
08-24-2010, 12:35 PM
Remember, there are three Christian views regarding the fate of the "lost".

1.) The lost are eternally cut off from God and suffer in the outer darkness, burning in the lake of fire forever. (Eternal Damnation)

2.) The lost are eternally destroyed and cease to exist. (Eternal Destruction)

3.) The lost are punished by God in the lake of fire, the flames of which are a purifying force that prunes the soul of all sin and self, preparing it to enter into the eternal state that God purchased for that soul via the cross of Calvary. (Christian Universalism)

coadie
08-24-2010, 12:37 PM
lol, I was merely comparing someone thinking a group of people were punished for rejecting God

with

someone else thinking another group of people are going to be punished for rejecting God.

If one is true, then it is plausible for the other to be true.

If all else fails, though, let this self-portrait of myself comfort you...





http://blog.outdoorzy.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/walrus.jpg

The Amelekites were ordered destroyed by God for messin with the Jews.
King Saul was fired over the deal.

Mr. Smith
08-24-2010, 12:38 PM
Strawman

Idiot.

coadie
08-24-2010, 01:00 PM
Idiot.

Introspection again?:toofunny

Mr. Smith
08-24-2010, 03:18 PM
Introspection again?:toofunny


Stick around and I'll show you some worthwhile comebacks. That one wasn't very good.