View Full Version : Do Moderate Muslims need to do more...
Praxeas
08-24-2010, 06:08 PM
Do moderate Muslims need to do more to convince non-Muslims that Radical Islamics are a minority and don't represent the real Islamic faith?
Let me expand on that but first I do want to know if anyone thinks they have no responsibility to speak up and out against Radical Islam and completely distance themselves from all forms of Jihad other than their own personal struggle against sin
I believe that the reason many Americans have an issue with this Mosque at ground zero is due a lot to mistrusting Islam and it's followers. Now, while not all Muslims are the so called "radical" or "extremist" muslims, I think many Americans tend to view moderates as passive participants
By that I mean they are viewed as Muslims who won't condemn these other groups. Or they even side with them or express empathy, while saying they don't condone violence. Or they don't support Al Queda but they do support Hamas against Israel. Or they even financially support certain groups that fund terrorist groups. Perhaps another reason is the view that many extremists started out as moderates or were pretending to be Moderates...our own CIA was guilty of assuming a moderate was really a moderate and several CIA members died in Afghanistan.
Also too is the idea of a bloodless Jihad, like what happened in Lebanon and what is happening in Europe, by sheer numbers and political power they take over a nation and it's government and enforce Sharia law.
That might be my skewed perception but I believe a lot of Americans and apparently even Europeans now are taking that view (see France's and other EU states recent actions against Islam). In light of that do you think Moderate Islam needs to do more to let the rest of us know they are not like that? Should we just assume it?
Have you seen some of the stuff that "moderate" Muslim that BHO has sent out (and Dubya had preciously sent out) to speak for us has said?
Our tax dollars are supporting him. He's considered a "moderate" Muslim?
Pressing-On
08-24-2010, 09:34 PM
Have you seen some of the stuff that "moderate" Muslim that BHO has sent out (and Dubya had preciously sent out) to speak for us has said?
Our tax dollars are supporting him. He's considered a "moderate" Muslim?
Yes, and what about Rauf's buddy, Prince al-Walid bin Talal, second largest shareholder at Fox News? It just can't get any better than that, can it?
Praxeas
08-25-2010, 01:00 AM
Yes, and what about Rauf's buddy, Prince al-Walid bin Talal, second largest shareholder at Fox News? It just can't get any better than that, can it?
What about him?
pelathais
08-25-2010, 02:11 AM
Yes, and what about Rauf's buddy, Prince al-Walid bin Talal, second largest shareholder at Fox News? It just can't get any better than that, can it?
No wonder Fox News has been such a sycophant supporter of the mosque at Ground Zero.
Twisp
08-25-2010, 06:24 AM
What about him?
I believe he is referring to how Fox linked Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal to being a "bad guy" supporting Imam Rauf without revealing that Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal was the 2nd biggest shareholder of Fox. They didn't mention him by name or even showed his picture. When they were speaking of him, they showed a picture of Imam Rauf. Because, you know, showing a picture of Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal, the ACTUAL person they were talking about, would have been too hard. lol Or would have brought the connection back to them.
Aquila
08-25-2010, 06:36 AM
I think the true "moderates" are in a minority. In my opinion the true "moderates" are Westernized.
What strikes me is that many "moderates" say that the radical form of Islam doesn't represent true Islam. However, if you review the nations where Islam is the indigenous religion, culture, and practice (and has been for well over a thousand years) you'll see the more radical brand as the norm. Human rights are abysmal in Islamic countries. No freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of expression. The state of women's rights, gay rights (I know, I know, but thinking libertarian here), children's rights, etc. are far behind those rights found in Westernized countries.
When viewed like this, Islam appears to be a threat to the Constitution and freedom itself. I'd love to know what "true Islam" is. Because I'm not finding it. :(
*It almost makes me proud that even those we call "sinners" have the freedom to be themselves in my country. :)
Pressing-On
08-25-2010, 08:30 AM
I think the true "moderates" are in a minority. In my opinion the true "moderates" are Westernized.
What strikes me is that many "moderates" say that the radical form of Islam doesn't represent true Islam. However, if you review the nations where Islam is the indigenous religion, culture, and practice (and has been for well over a thousand years) you'll see the more radical brand as the norm. Human rights are abysmal in Islamic countries. No freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of expression. The state of women's rights, gay rights (I know, I know, but thinking libertarian here), children's rights, etc. are far behind those rights found in Westernized countries.
When viewed like this, Islam appears to be a threat to the Constitution and freedom itself. I'd love to know what "true Islam" is. Because I'm not finding it. :(
*It almost makes me proud that even those we call "sinners" have the freedom to be themselves in my country. :)
Those are my thoughts as well, Aquila. Exactly!!! :thumbsup
Pressing-On
08-25-2010, 08:32 AM
What about him?
I believe he is referring to how Fox linked Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal to being a "bad guy" supporting Imam Rauf without revealing that Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal was the 2nd biggest shareholder of Fox. They didn't mention him by name or even showed his picture. When they were speaking of him, they showed a picture of Imam Rauf. Because, you know, showing a picture of Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal, the ACTUAL person they were talking about, would have been too hard. lol Or would have brought the connection back to them.
You are right, Twisp. Spewing about the backer and not identifying him. I wonder who is going to do a segment on that - O'Reilly, Beck, Huckabee, Megan, Shepherd? LOL!
This is a funny clip on how Stewart brings the issue to attention. Of course, Huffington has to point out the hypocrisy. LOL!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/23/stewart-fox-prince-alwaleed_n_692234.html
Pressing-On
08-25-2010, 08:37 AM
No wonder Fox News has been such a sycophant supporter of the mosque at Ground Zero.
I don't watch Fox News, so I don't really know what they've been saying. The financial involvement and control of so many entities is where it will get sticky for us over time. The Sharia Finance, already creeping in (AIG), is very alarming to me.
Twisp
08-25-2010, 08:57 AM
You are right, Twisp. Spewing about the backer and not identifying him. I wonder who is going to do a segment on that - O'Reilly, Beck, Huckabee, Megan, Shepherd? LOL!
This is a funny clip on how Stewart brings the issue to attention. Of course, Huffington has to point out the hypocrisy. LOL!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/23/stewart-fox-prince-alwaleed_n_692234.html
Yeah, I was watching The Daily Show when they ran the clip. It was hard to believe that Fox thought they could sneak it through.
Did you see the one the night before where they were listing out "possible" ties between Imam Rauf and terrorists by using an index card and highlighters? That was an extremely funny bit.
Pressing-On
08-25-2010, 09:17 AM
Yeah, I was watching The Daily Show when they ran the clip. It was hard to believe that Fox thought they could sneak it through.
Did you see the one the night before where they were listing out "possible" ties between Imam Rauf and terrorists by using an index card and highlighters? That was an extremely funny bit.
I was surprised at Fox's actions myself.
But what is this card thing about? Did Karl Rove start that? LOL!
Twisp
08-25-2010, 10:21 AM
I was surprised at Fox's actions myself.
But what is this card thing about? Did Karl Rove start that? LOL!
It starts around the 3:27 mark.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-august-19-2010/extremist-makeover---homeland-edition
Pressing-On
08-25-2010, 10:44 AM
It starts around the 3:27 mark.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-august-19-2010/extremist-makeover---homeland-edition
He's saying around 3:38 that the Pentagon has a mosque in it. That is not true. It's a non-denominational place to pray.
Yes, I saw that "index card" clip in the previous video. It's basically a visual sales tactic. Jon is hilarious using these type things in his show - "I'm just reading off the highlighted card." LOL!
I admit that I do like to listen, sometimes, to clips by Jon Stewart, but he tends to have a "potty" which I don't like.
But, really, all of this is pitting the right against the left and we are not looking at the seriousness of this issue. There are inroads being made into our country and it's shortsighted to overlook that. Islam does not promote nor does it teach separation of church and state - all answer to Allah. It doesn't matter if they claim to be moderate or not, it's just a fact. That should be enough for us, but apparently, we are not paying attention.
I would also reference what Aquila said, which is true:
However, if you review the nations where Islam is the indigenous religion, culture, and practice (and has been for well over a thousand years) you'll see the more radical brand as the norm.
They may seem moderate and peaceful, but wait until the population grows and they become a majority. The tables will be turned, history proves it.
Praxeas
08-25-2010, 12:30 PM
IF he is involved in terrorism then the SEC needs to strip him of his shares....uh..how did he get them to begin with? Hmmmm
coadie
08-25-2010, 12:44 PM
IF he is involved in terrorism then the SEC needs to strip him of his shares....uh..how did he get them to begin with? Hmmmm
Saudis carry a large stake in CITI. Arabs bought P & O and run some of our ports. I thing stock ownership is legal.
Pressing-On
08-25-2010, 03:53 PM
IF he is involved in terrorism then the SEC needs to strip him of his shares....uh..how did he get them to begin with? Hmmmm
I'm wondering what is going on at the Federal Reserve.
Beautiful article by Frank Gaffney
The 'End of the Beginning' on Shariah?
The assembled union workers, firefighters, police officers, Patriot Guard bikers and other regular folks were addressed by a succession of citizen activists, community leaders and 9/11 family members. The thunderous response to patriotic speeches and songs about freedom and the threat posed to it by people l like those who toppled the once-adjacent World Trade Center rang in the canyons of Lower Manhattan and - due to the massive media presence - across the land.
When my turn came to speak, I actually thanked Imam Rauf. For, in his overreaching ambition to build what he first dubbed the "Ground Zero Mosque," Rauf unwittingly and unintentionally created a "teachable moment" about shariah, and what he and others like him are doing to insinuate it into this country.
http://townhall.com/columnists/FrankGaffney/2010/08/24/the_end_of_the_beginning_on_Shariah/page/full
Pressing-On
08-25-2010, 04:03 PM
In light of that do you think Moderate Islam needs to do more to let the rest of us know they are not like that? Should we just assume it?
I believe what Winston Churchill observed way back in 1899:
Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities – but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.
No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith.
http://www.goldcoastchronicle.com/politics/winston-churchill-islam/
:thumbsup
Walks_in_islam
08-26-2010, 02:07 PM
It is filmed and put in front of you every day. BUT: It is your choice to acknowledge or ignore the fact that innocent Muslims die at the hand of extremists and stand up against extremists every day.
Blinding oneself to what is or is not true or factual does not change the facts. If the spilling of blood and the risking of life is not enough then nothing is enough.
What more would you have moderate Muslims do?
Moderate Muslims are fighting radical Muslims in Yemen still http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE60C3GH20100113
Moderate Muslims are dying nearly every day in Iraq (60 killed/200 wounded just 2 days ago)
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129447896
A quote from the president of Pakistan (after 80 Muslims were killed on July 3rd in attacks on their mosques while they were inside worshipping):
Farahnaz Ispahani, spokeswoman for President Asif Ali Zardari, condemned the attack: “This sickening poison of extremism will be driven out of our nation and we will not be cowed.”
How much more spilled Muslim blood will satisfy your thirst and make you happy?
Do moderate Muslims need to do more to convince non-Muslims that Radical Islamics are a minority and don't represent the real Islamic faith?
Let me expand on that but first I do want to know if anyone thinks they have no responsibility to speak up and out against Radical Islam and completely distance themselves from all forms of Jihad other than their own personal struggle against sin
I believe that the reason many Americans have an issue with this Mosque at ground zero is due a lot to mistrusting Islam and it's followers. Now, while not all Muslims are the so called "radical" or "extremist" muslims, I think many Americans tend to view moderates as passive participants
By that I mean they are viewed as Muslims who won't condemn these other groups. Or they even side with them or express empathy, while saying they don't condone violence. Or they don't support Al Queda but they do support Hamas against Israel. Or they even financially support certain groups that fund terrorist groups. Perhaps another reason is the view that many extremists started out as moderates or were pretending to be Moderates...our own CIA was guilty of assuming a moderate was really a moderate and several CIA members died in Afghanistan.
Also too is the idea of a bloodless Jihad, like what happened in Lebanon and what is happening in Europe, by sheer numbers and political power they take over a nation and it's government and enforce Sharia law.
That might be my skewed perception but I believe a lot of Americans and apparently even Europeans now are taking that view (see France's and other EU states recent actions against Islam). In light of that do you think Moderate Islam needs to do more to let the rest of us know they are not like that? Should we just assume it?
Praxeas
08-26-2010, 02:49 PM
Im talking about here in the west
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