Define "Christian nation"

[Timmy]

Didn't want to contaminate a prayer request thread. ;)

Can someone define the term "Christian nation"? Never mind whether the US is or ever was one. Or do consider that, if you like. Either way, what should a Christian nation be like? What would its constitution be like? What laws would it have (if any)? What would its immigration policy be?

While we're at it, perhaps we could list some ways that a Christian nation would be better than other nations (if it would be). ;)

[Mr. Smith]

Didn't want to contaminate a prayer request thread. ;)

Can someone define the term "Christian nation"? Never mind whether the US is or ever was one. Or do consider that, if you like. Either way, what should a Christian nation be like? What would its constitution be like? What laws would it have (if any)? What would its immigration policy be?

While we're at it, perhaps we could list some ways that a Christian nation would be better than other nations (if it would be). ;)


A "Christian Nation" would NOT be better. I have proof.

[Truthseeker]

A "Christian Nation" would NOT be better. I have proof.

Really? explain

[Mr. Smith]

Really? explain


I will. I have to build up the suspense.

[Baron1710]

A Christian nation is a country that has been baptized in the name of Jesus, spoke in tongues...what? ...We don't baptize land masses? Oh well nevermind.

[Timmy]

A Christian nation is a country that has been baptized in the name of Jesus, spoke in tongues...what? ...We don't baptize land masses? Oh well nevermind.

:lol

[Mr. Smith]

A Christian nation is a country that has been baptized in the name of Jesus, spoke in tongues...what? ...We don't baptize land masses? Oh well nevermind.


:toofunny

That's like people saying, "We have to sing Christian songs." Really? A song gets saved?

[Baron1710]

:toofunny

That's like people saying, "We have to sing Christian songs." Really? A song gets saved?

I guess those of us who spent time in Segraves class just don't do the secular/sacred division thing very well. I had a young lady lecturing me about something I was listening to the other day and I asked her, "So you don't read books that contain things about mutilation, rape, murder, incest, etc.?"

She didn't get it.

[coadie]

A Christian nation is a country that has been baptized in the name of Jesus, spoke in tongues...what? ...We don't baptize land masses? Oh well nevermind.

19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Oooops

[Aquila]

I don't think a "Christian nation" would be better. Personally, I lean libertarian in most cases. Therefore my opinion of a "Christian nation" would be a nation with a majority of citizens being "Christian" in some form. Policies such as immigration would be settled by the nation's constitution and political leadership. I magine it could take any form - Republic, Socialist, Monarchy, maybe even Communist. lol

[iceniez]

First you would have to define Christian. Real, or the kind that the masses accept as " christian ".

[Mr. Smith]

19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Oooops


Coadie, have you ever considered the debate strategy of posting scriptures that actually have something to do with the topic? Just thought I'd try to help you.

[Timmy]

First you would have to define Christian. Real, or the kind that the masses accept as " christian ".

Good point! (Those masses are so dumb! :toofunny)

[Timmy]

Good point! (Those masses are so dumb! :toofunny)

But seriously, for the purpose of this thread, let's consider only a real Christian nation. :thumbsup

(But, do we really need to define the term? That would get us seriously sidetracked!)

[Mr. Smith]

But seriously, for the purpose of this thread, let's consider only a real Christian nation. :thumbsup

(But, do we really need to define the term? That would get us seriously sidetracked!)



I have PROOF and PRECEDENT that a Christian nation wouldn't work.

[coadie]

I have PROOF and PRECEDENT that a Christian nation wouldn't work.

This nation sure has about an additional 8 million out of work..

Proof? You can't prove you ate lunch on Monday. :bbq

[iceniez]

Good point! (Those masses are so dumb! :toofunny)

:ursofunny

[Mr. Smith]

This nation sure has about an additional 8 million out of work..

Proof? You can't prove you ate lunch on Monday. :bbq


I promise, you are, by far, the WORST debater in the history of the internet. Have you given any thought to spending your time watching cartoons?

I'm not trying to, nor will I, prove I ate lunch on Monday. I'm going to give precedent and proof that a Christian nation would not work.

[Timmy]

I promise, you are, by far, the WORST debater in the history of the internet. . . .

I've seen worse. I am not kidding.

[OnTheFritz]

Interesting video segment between Greg Boyd and Charlie Rose on this topic:

http://www.google.com/m/url?client=safari&ei=Im11TOiDK5mStgeF047BAg&hl=en&oe=UTF-8&q=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v%3DHIWs_G4oJaA&ved=0CBoQtwIwAw&usg=AFQjCNHBEApEipqxADUnz2n5EnUBVCXL0g

[Truthseeker]

I don't think there's no such thing as a christian nation.

[Mr. Smith]

I've seen worse. I am not kidding.

Seriously??? Who? I almost feel sorry for Toadie.

[Mr. Smith]

I don't think there's no such thing as a christian nation.


"I don't think there's no such thing......". Every grammar teacher just had a coronary.

Can you explain that because I have no idea what you just said.

[Timmy]

Seriously??? Who? I almost feel sorry for Toadie.

Well, it is a subjective opinion, of course. But this other guy (not on AFF, by the way) avoids questions, while pretending to answer them, and has never, that I have seen, made a sound logical case for anything. Coadie, on the other hand, .... uh, well, it seems like he has at least answered a question, now and then. I think. :lol

[Truthseeker]

"I don't think there's no such thing......". Every grammar teacher just had a coronary.

Can you explain that because I have no idea what you just said.

No such thing as a christian nation. Is that better.

[Truthseeker]

I have habit of letting my fingers type on without a brain.

[coadie]

Well, it is a subjective opinion, of course. But this other guy (not on AFF, by the way) avoids questions, while pretending to answer them, and has never, that I have seen, made a sound logical case for anything. Coadie, on the other hand, .... uh, well, it seems like he has at least answered a question, now and then. I think. :lol

Do you consider the United States a Christian nation ...

Pew forum asks:
For example, six-in-ten white evangelical Protestants say that the Bible should be the guiding principle in making laws when it conflicts with the will of the people, a view rejected by an equally large majority of Americans, including most Catholics and white mainline Protestants.
christianity used in concept when making laws.

http://pewforum.org/Politics-and-Elections/Many-Americans-Uneasy-with-Mix-of-Religion-and-Politics.aspx

Americans overwhelmingly consider the U.S. a Christian nation: Two-in-three (67%) characterize the country this way, down just slightly from 71% in March 2005.1 A decade ago, Americans were somewhat less likely to tie the nation's identity to Christianity. In 1996, 60% considered the U.S. a Christian nation. By 2002, however, the figure had climbed to 67%, and since then views on this question have remained fairly consistent.

self identification is common in polls.
Example:
Nancy Pelosi thinks she is a devout catholic and favors abortion
The Catholic Bishops think she is not a catholic because of her rejection of the church principles.

[coadie]

I have habit of letting my fingers type on without a brain.

Engrish is my second of 4 languages. Takes practice.

[Timmy]

Do you consider the United States a Christian nation ...

Pew forum asks:

christianity used in concept when making laws.

http://pewforum.org/Politics-and-Elections/Many-Americans-Uneasy-with-Mix-of-Religion-and-Politics.aspx



self identification is common in polls.
Example:
Nancy Pelosi thinks she is a devout catholic and favors abortion
The Catholic Bishops think she is not a catholic because of her rejection of the church principles.

Hence my request to define "Christian nation". It doesn't surprise me to see that most Americans think of the U.S. as a Christian nation. But I think most of them are either just parroting what they've heard, or think that the term means "most inhabitants are (really, call themselves) Christians". That may be a useful concept, but I think some use the term more to mean "founded on Christian principles", which is what I've heard from pulpits a number of times.

[Timmy]

Hence my request to define "Christian nation". It doesn't surprise me to see that most Americans think of the U.S. as a Christian nation. But I think most of them are either just parroting what they've heard, or think that the term means "most inhabitants are (really, call themselves) Christians". That may be a useful concept, but I think some use the term more to mean "founded on Christian principles", which is what I've heard from pulpits a number of times.

Oh, and to answer your question, it depends on the definition. In that latter sense I mentioned above, no. It was not founded on Christian principles, per se. Not officially, and not explicitly.

[coadie]

Oh, and to answer your question, it depends on the definition. In that latter sense I mentioned above, no. It was not founded on Christian principles, per se. Not officially, and not explicitly.

Like a census questionaire. They give boxes Christian, Hindu, Rastifarian, darwinista Muslim, Jew and Other. People pick something for different reasons.

When I knock on doors, sometimes I ask where people go to church if they say they attend. Then they hollar back to the wife, "honey what is the name of our church"

Ask them what it means to be a Christian, some say they were baptized as a baby. .or raised a Baptist.

[NotforSale]

I don't think there's no such thing as a christian nation.

You're right; there is no such thing. Government and Faith don't mix, period. I think the only reason Faith winds up in Government is for political reasons, not moral ones.

People who make their way into the Higher Powers of the World almost always sell out for gain. You look at every last President since I've been alive (50 years) and they are ALL tainted with political corruption, regardless of political affiliation.

For starters, just look up Bohemian Grove. I used to vacation just a few miles from this place, not knowing what was actually going on down on the Russian River, a short distance from Cazadaro, California. Later in life, I asked my father about this place and he knew about it, as many of his "Higher Up" customers would go there; Presidents, CEO's, and other corporate executives participated in this idol worship ceremony and wild partying that would go on for days.

"The membership list has included every Republican U.S. president since 1923 (as well as some Democrats), many cabinet officials, directors and CEOs of large corporations including major financial institutions. Major military contractors, oil companies, banks (including the Federal Reserve), utilities (including nuclear power) and national media (broadcast and print) have high-ranking officials as club members or guests"

http://www.sonomacountyfreepress.com/bohos/bohofact.html

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1489

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemian_Grove

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_PAqT2JZOw

[Mr. Smith]

I have habit of letting my fingers type on without a brain.


I've noticed that quite a bit, actually. :lol

[Mr. Smith]

Engrish is my second of 4 languages. Takes practice.

And you can't type in this one!

[Truthseeker]

I've noticed that quite a bit, actually. :lol

Yeah, I know I need to slow down. Sometimes I destroys sentences making me look like I didn't get past 1st grade. :toofunny

[Mr. Smith]

The time has come for me to unveil my proof and precedent that a "Christian Nation" would not work.

For the purpose of this thread, I am defining a "Christian Nation" as one that is led and governed by Christians only.

There has only been one country that has been led and governed by Christians. It was required that this government be occupied ONLY by members of the Dutch Reformed Church.

The nation? South Africa during the Apartheid government.

[coadie]

And you can't type in this one!

I type very well. I do not spell very well.

Big word alert: S-P-E L-L

There is a difference.

[Mr. Smith]

I type very well. I do not spell very well.

Big word alert: S-P-E L-L

There is a difference.


So that was a spelling mistake? You don't know how to spell the word "English"? No wonder your debating skills are so bad.

[coadie]

The time has come for me to unveil my proof and precedent that a "Christian Nation" would not work.

For the purpose of this thread, I am defining a "Christian Nation" as one that is led and governed by Christians only.

There has only been one country that has been led and governed by Christians. It was required that this government be occupied ONLY by members of the Dutch Reformed Church.

The nation? South Africa during the Apartheid government.

You contradicted your self. On one hand you said Christians then later changed it to "Members of the Reformed Church"

Why do you peddle the presupposition that they are one and the same?

Christians were first so called at Antioch. Dutch reformed church is an entirely different population pool.

Nederlandse Hervormde Kerk not the same as

Verenigende Gereformeerde Kerk

[Mr. Smith]

You contradicted your self. On one hand you said Christians then later changed it to "Members of the Reformed Church"

Why do you peddle the presupposition that they are one and the same?

Christians were first so called at Antioch. Dutch reformed church is an entirely different population pool.

Nederlandse Hervormde Kerk not the same as

Verenigende Gereformeerde Kerk



So now only people in YOUR little group are Christians? So now we can add "Bigotry" to your resume. Oh wait....the bible talks about you in that "Works of the flesh" section of Galatians 5.


"When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, your lives will produce these evil results: sexual immorality, impure thoughts, eagerness for lustful pleasure, idolatry, participation in demonic activities, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, divisions, the feeling that everyone is wrong except those in your own little group, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other kinds of sin. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God."

Very nice.

[coadie]

So now only people in YOUR little group are Christians? So now we can add "Bigotry" to your resume. Oh wait....the bible talks about you in that "Works of the flesh" section of Galatians 5.


"When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, your lives will produce these evil results: sexual immorality, impure thoughts, eagerness for lustful pleasure, idolatry, participation in demonic activities, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, divisions, the feeling that everyone is wrong except those in your own little group, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other kinds of sin. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God."

Very nice.

A bigotry accusation? Did you pull that out of the air? What in the world connects Galatians 5 to this thread?

So you are calling me a bigot?
Judgementalism is alive and well.

Mean name calling. Not uncommon today.

[Mr. Smith]

We interrupt this thread to make a special announcement:

Coadie has sent me a Private Message and was very mean to me. While I am not allowed, per AFF rules, to reveal the exact content, I will say that I was recently made aware of my need to grow up.

I'll keep everyone updated.

[coadie]

So now only people in YOUR little group are Christians? So now we can add "Bigotry" to your resume. Oh wait....the bible talks about you in that "Works of the flesh" section of Galatians 5.


[
Very nice.

What "little group"? Do you know?

[Mr. Smith]

A bigotry accusation? Did you pull that out of the air? What in the world connects Galatians 5 to this thread?


Do you REALLY need me to explain that??? You're worse off than I thought. Let me connect the dots for you.

1) You made the implication that people in the Dutch Reformed Church are not Christians, therefore, not saved.

2) I said you may have an issue with bigotry and quoted Galatians 5 and cited one of the works of the flesh, "The feeling that everyone else is wrong except those in your own little group" as evidence.

Does that help? I'll try to assist you in any other statements on AFF you're not able to comprehend. You're welcome.

[Mr. Smith]

What "little group"? Do you know?



Sigh.

Those that agree with you, Toad.

[coadie]

Do you REALLY need me to explain that??? You're worse off than I thought. Let me connect the dots for you.

1) You made the implication that people in the Dutch Reformed Church are not Christians, therefore, not saved.

2) I said you may have an issue with bigotry and quoted Galatians 5 and cited one of the works of the flesh, "The feeling that everyone else is wrong except those in your own little group" as evidence.

Does that help? I'll try to assist you in any other statements on AFF you're not able to comprehend. You're welcome.

It was clearly you said/shared the unsupported presuposition that Dutch Reformed members were the Same as christians.

I am not Dutch Reformed. Dutch reformed is in the Netherlands. Not in south Africa.

Gereformeerde Kerk van Suid-Afrika (the Reformed Church of South Africa).

[Mr. Smith]

It was clearly you said/shared the unsupported presuposition that Dutch Reformed members were the Same as christians.

I am not Dutch Reformed. Dutch reformed is in the Netherlands. Not in south Africa.

Gereformeerde Kerk van Suid-Afrika (the Reformed Church of South Africa).


The Dutch Reformed Church is a Christian group, Bro. Coad. It is also the Dutch Reformed Church that members of the apartheid government were required to belong to. Look it up (if you can figure out how).

[coadie]

Sigh.

Those that agree with you, Toad.

Nick names? Grow up.


I will also call you on being trigger happy in calling people "bigots" that disagree with you.
No wonder your debating skills are so bad.

Do insults help you very much?

Thanks. I knew you could understand.

From my visits to Africa, the State religion running the church is the reality. It appeared on paper that the Church was trying to run the country and gubment. Yes church membership can be a handy dandy to unfairly allow only members to have government jobs. It isn't fair and it isn't Democratic.

[coadie]

The Dutch Reformed Church is a Christian group, Bro. Coad. It is also the Dutch Reformed Church that members of the apartheid government were required to belong to. Look it up (if you can figure out how).

Are you able to make a comment without adding an insult?

[Mr. Smith]

Nick names? Grow up.


I will also call you on being trigger happy in calling people "bigots" that disagree with you.


Do insults help you very much?

Thanks. I knew you could understand.

From my visits to Africa, the State religion running the church is the reality. It appeared on paper that the Church was trying to run the country and gubment. Yes church membership can be a handy dandy to unfairly allow only members to have government jobs. It isn't fair and it isn't Democratic.



The "T" and "C" are so close together. Sometimes I might miss.

You're gonna "Call me on it"? Gettin' tough are you? Ok, you "called me on it", now what?

[Mr. Smith]

Are you able to make a comment without adding an insult?


I'm so sorry, but when someone says that "Dutch Reformed" and "Christians" aren't the same thing, the only word that comes to my mind is "Bigot."

[coadie]

I'm so sorry, but when someone says that "Dutch Reformed" and "Christians" aren't the same thing, the only word that comes to my mind is "Bigot."

So you are calling me a bigot.

The precise statement was Members of the Dutch Reformed Church and Christians are not the same.

I didn't say NHK members were non christians.

NHK It existed from the 1570s

Christianity began over 1500 years earlier. None of the church of Ephesus Christians belonged to the NHK.

There has only been one country that has been led and governed by Christians. It was required that this government be occupied ONLY by members of the Dutch Reformed Church.

Leave out Lutherans. So sad.

[Mr. Smith]

So you are calling me a bigot.

The precise statement was Members of the Dutch Reformed Church and Christians are not the same.

I didn't say NHK members were non christians.

NHK It existed from the 1570s

Christianity began over 1500 years earlier. None of the church of Ephesus Christians belonged to the NHK.



Leave out Lutherans. So sad.



MEMBERS profess Christianity. Good grief.

[coadie]

MEMBERS profess Christianity. Good grief.

Jesus Christ Defines Christianity.



3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Jesus didn't have men sign and memorize creeds, confessions. 7 of them.
Christians don't do catechisms according to Jesus to join churches.

Infant baptisms? Not according to Jesus.

The most un christian like stunt is to say non members can't have communion with members. Not that we want to. When churches require membership cards for communion, they create their own fancy religion.

According to the census of 2001, more than 3.2 million people recorded themselves as Reformed. This however is fast decline compared to the 1996 census, when still 3.9 million people were Reformed. Particularly amongst black and coloured people the Reformed churches lost many members, while the number of Reformed whites remained status quo due to mass emigration.

Looks like the church runs like a government.

[Timmy]

Jesus Christ Defines Christianity.

. . .

"By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another."

[coadie]

"By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another."

No catechism classes?

[ILG]

A Christian nation is one that fights over what the Bible says rather than what science or nature or opinion says. :D

[coadie]

A Christian nation is one that fights over what the Bible says rather than what science or nature or opinion says. :D

So a non Christian Nation uses courts to get the mention of Creation removed from the classroom and textbooks? They also punish kids that mention Jesus when they give valedictorian speeches?

[ILG]

So a non Christian Nation uses courts to get the mention of Creation removed from the classroom and textbooks? They also punish kids that mention Jesus when they give valedictorian speeches?

Yes, I would say so. I haven't read this thread. I don't think America is really much of a Christian nation anymore. It is possible most of the people are Christian of some type but the laws are getting more anti-Christian.

[coadie]

Yes, I would say so. I haven't read this thread. I don't think America is really much of a Christian nation anymore. It is possible most of the people are Christian of some type but the laws are getting more anti-Christian.

We still see t-shirt apologetics. If we use the standard that Christians are soul winners, we don't have as many. 50% of the Methodist churches which used to be a big chain did not do a baptism last year.

[pelathais]

You're right; there is no such thing. Government and Faith don't mix, period. I think the only reason Faith winds up in Government is for political reasons, not moral ones.
...

http://www.sonomacountyfreepress.com/bohos/bohofact.html

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1489

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemian_Grove

Dude, I would be so disappointed if you posted an Alex (GWB blew up the WTC!) Jones video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_PAqT2JZOw








http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6GuEswXOXo&feature=related