View Full Version : Sex Before Marriage: Does God Approve?
Charnock
08-30-2010, 04:47 PM
We live in a new day. One in which the very definition of morality is being rewritten. With that in mind, do you believe the traditional Christian view concerning premarital sex is old-fashioned and outdated?
I hear many educators and social physicians say that sex before marriage is a natural function of adolescence. Popular culture views premarital sex favorably. In fact, there is an EXPECTATION that kids will have sex before they're married.
What do you think? Do you believe premarital sex is okay? Is there any reason teens or unmarried adults should abstain?
If one is a Christian the Bible is very clear on these matters. Adultery and fornication are dealt with.
I am guessing probably only DAII, Mr. Smith, and Walks In Islam may have a possibly different view than everybody else on AFF. Should be interesting to see the responses to your question!
rgcraig
08-30-2010, 04:54 PM
No, he does not approve.
This is a trick question right?
Praxeas
08-30-2010, 05:00 PM
Of course not
This is a trick question right?
LOL!!
*AQuietPlace*
08-30-2010, 05:01 PM
The last time I checked it was called fornication.
Charnock
08-30-2010, 05:02 PM
Why is it wrong? Is there Bible against it? If there is, does it still apply to us?
What if your pastor gives you permission ... or better yet ... he tells you to ...
Shall we not submit to our pastors?
rgcraig
08-30-2010, 05:04 PM
I think Charnock is doing an "AFF Test" to see how terrible we all are because we have no morals, hate pastors, God, each other and don't want to be told no.
(tic and from his own accusations)
Cindy
08-30-2010, 05:04 PM
No, God does not approve of fornication. He hasn't changed.
rgcraig
08-30-2010, 05:04 PM
Why is it wrong? Is there Bible against it? If there is, does it still apply to us?
Because the Good book says so.
Yes.
Yes.
Charnock
08-30-2010, 05:06 PM
But what if you were married, your husband left you for another woman, and vanished? What if you can't even locate him for say....four years? What if you can't get his signature on the divorce papers?
Is it okay then? After all, it's not your fault he was a cheater? It's not your fault you can't marry the new guy.
But what if you were married, your husband left you for another woman, and vanished? What if you can't even locate him for say....four years? What if you can't get his signature on the divorce papers?
Is it okay then? After all, it's not your fault he was a cheater? It's not your fault you can't marry the new guy.
But if you wore a halter top and tight skirts while you were married ... under the present day UPCI endorsed view you would be the guilty party and you'd have to remain an old maid for life.
rgcraig
08-30-2010, 05:09 PM
But what if you were married, your husband left you for another woman, and vanished? What if you can't even locate him for say....four years? What if you can't get his signature on the divorce papers?
Is it okay then? After all, it's not your fault he was a cheater? It's not your fault you can't marry the new guy.
I think there's some law that would cover that.
http://family-law.lawyers.com/divorce/Grounds-for-Divorce-Abandonment-or-Desertion.html
Cindy
08-30-2010, 05:09 PM
But what if you were married, your husband left you for another woman, and vanished? What if you can't even locate him for say....four years? What if you can't get his signature on the divorce papers?
Is it okay then? After all, it's not your fault he was a cheater? It's not your fault you can't marry the new guy.
It's still not okay.
No, God does not approve of fornication. He hasn't changed.
And the Vicar of Christ on the earth are those dreaded pastors ... what if they tell you to ????
Cindy
08-30-2010, 05:15 PM
And the Vicar of Christ on the earth are those dreaded pastors ... what if they tell you to ????
What if they tell me to kill someone? They need help if they are telling you to sin.
I think Walks in Islam ... would be the best person to give his opinion on this deep theological controversy?
What say ye Timmy?
Crakjak or Aquila should chime in ... they can tell us its wrong but no biggie because no one goes to hell eternally and we're all saved anyway ...
rgcraig
08-30-2010, 05:21 PM
Sex Before Marriage: Does God Approve?
Well, the correct answer for me would be:
I was a female before I married and I remained a female after I was married. I'm now divorced and I'm still a female. So my sex is female no matter what my maritial status is and I think God approves because - - he made me.
I think the more interesting poll would be ... how many OP preacher's kids have had sex before marriage ... and a comparison in trends 30 years ago to today.
Despite 99.099% having spoken in tongues
simplyme
08-30-2010, 05:33 PM
But what if you were married, your husband left you for another woman, and vanished? What if you can't even locate him for say....four years? What if you can't get his signature on the divorce papers?
Is it okay then? After all, it's not your fault he was a cheater? It's not your fault you can't marry the new guy.
What IS your fault is what YOU do or don't do, despite any circumstances. PERIOD.
Its really that simple. GOD says so., btw., AND since HE is the only one (unless my newspaper wasn't delivered that day or somethin) that:
1) has that kind of authority over everything and everyone,
2) knows whats next..
3) has written our life story, cover-to-cover, before we were even thought about by anyone on earth..
4) considers time as irrelevant..and therefore is the same yesterday today and forever; whose WORD has already been forever settled in heaven
5) can take you out in a split second, :D
6) can deliver a pardon to the most vile person ever known..if they truly
repent
7) knows everyones heart; reads everyones mind
AND...
I'll stop there, the list can just go on & on and on, and if this isn't enuf for ya, well sorrrreeeee.. bye now! ;) GOOD LUCK!
crakjak
08-30-2010, 05:36 PM
Crakjak or Aquila should chime in ... they can tell us its wrong but no biggie because no one goes to hell eternally and we're all saved anywa ...
Immoral sexual behavior produces hellish life situations, but God is still God and restoration is His business. Condemning Pharisees make these situations worst by their lack of wisdom and love for those caught in the immaturity and ignorance of the wages of sin.
How's that Danny Boy? LOL
Immoral sexual behavior produces hellish life situations, but God is still God and restoration is His business. Condemning Pharisees make these situations worst by their lack of wisdom and love for those caught in the immaturity and ignorance of the wages of sin.
How's that Danny Boy? LOL
Would seem that the command against sexual immorality was pretty cut and dry, as opposed to circumcision (hehe) .... to the apostles ... since it made on the list of DO NOTS at the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15 ...
but not sure we should be eating blood sausage or strangled animals either.
Truthseeker
08-30-2010, 05:49 PM
Why is it wrong? Is there Bible against it? If there is, does it still apply to us?
Please
Mr. Smith
08-30-2010, 05:54 PM
If one is a Christian the Bible is very clear on these matters. Adultery and fornication are dealt with.
I am guessing probably only DAII, Mr. Smith, and Walks In Islam may have a possibly different view than everybody else on AFF. Should be interesting to see the responses to your question!
?????????
Why in the world would you say that???
?????????
Why in the world would you say that???
Oh ... c'mon you love sin ... and openly promote it from your pulpit.
Mr. Smith
08-30-2010, 06:00 PM
Oh ... c'mon you love sin ... and openly promote it from your pulpit.
:lol
I guess that's what some of these people think. It's like someone saying last week that "Seeker" churches (emergent to some) don't teach the bible, repentance, and don't ask for commitment. Where do people get this stuff? I guess the mentality still, pretty much, holds true..."If you're not like me, something must be wrong with you."
Hoovie
08-30-2010, 06:10 PM
We live in a new day. One in which the very definition of morality is being rewritten. With that in mind, do you believe the traditional Christian view concerning premarital sex is old-fashioned and outdated?
I hear many educators and social physicians say that sex before marriage is a natural function of adolescence. Popular culture views premarital sex favorably. In fact, there is an EXPECTATION that kids will have sex before they're married.
What do you think? Do you believe premarital sex is okay? Is there any reason teens or unmarried adults should abstain?
Premarital sex is sin. I lean towards the "courtship" view - certainly don't believe teenagers should "date around" much less sleep around.
pelathais
08-30-2010, 06:26 PM
Crakjak or Aquila should chime in ... they can tell us its wrong but no biggie because no one goes to hell eternally and we're all saved anyway ...
But would it still be wrong even if there was no "hell?" Is the threat of "hell" the only thing that makes us "good?"
How about this? What is "marriage?"
If there's a "gray area" in your definition then I'd also be curious to know your answer to the question of, "When is fornication?"
Wow..hard to believe there is any doubt over this issue..
rgcraig
08-30-2010, 06:39 PM
Wow..hard to believe there is any doubt over this issue..
Yeah, that Charnock is something else!
But would it still be wrong even if there was no "hell?" Is the threat of "hell" the only thing that makes us "good?"
How about this? What is "marriage?"
If there's a "gray area" in your definition then I'd also be curious to know your answer to the question of, "When is fornication?"
Who proposed a gray area, Pela?
You need to get some more sleep.
Yeah, that Charnock is something else!
I think he's just question his faith.
pelathais
08-30-2010, 06:42 PM
Who proposed a gray area, Pela?
You need to get some more sleep.
Define "marriage." Give us a definition that is applicable in all human time periods and cultures.
I just got up a couple of hours ago.
Define "marriage."
My personal definition is it is the social union/legal contract between a man and woman that creates kinship ... which should be intimate and sexual in nature.
Define "American" ...
You need to sleep during normal hours.
coadie
08-30-2010, 06:50 PM
:lol
I guess that's what some of these people think. It's like someone saying last week that "Seeker" churches (emergent to some) don't teach the bible, repentance, and don't ask for commitment. Where do people get this stuff? I guess the mentality still, pretty much, holds true..."If you're not like me, something must be wrong with you."
The libs invented abortion to make the unintended consequences of fornication disappear.
?????????
Why in the world would you say that???
I said it because I don't know if you left wing libbers have some modern take on scripture regarding this subject that us old fogies don't have!
Note I did not say that you did only that you might and it would be interesting to see what you guys think.
The libs invented abortion to make the unintended consequences of fornication disappear.
Another post from left field ... or should we say right field.
Coadie, get thee a life.
I said it because I don't know if you left wing libbers have some modern take on scripture regarding this subject that us old fogies don't have!
Note I did not say that you did only that you might and it would be interesting to see what you guys think.
CC1 is now an ultrafreakycon ... oh the irony.
Prophetic word: The death of this forum will not be its theological slant, or supposed lack thereof, but those whose seek to spiritualize politics.
mizpeh
08-30-2010, 07:00 PM
But what if you were married, your husband left you for another woman, and vanished? What if you can't even locate him for say....four years? What if you can't get his signature on the divorce papers?
Is it okay then? After all, it's not your fault he was a cheater? It's not your fault you can't marry the new guy.
But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace. 1 Cor 7:15
the new guy has to be a Christian, though.
mizpeh
08-30-2010, 07:02 PM
I think the more interesting poll would be ... how many OP preacher's kids have had sex before marriage ... and a comparison in trends 30 years ago to today.
Despite 99.099% having spoken in tonguesWhat is it with you and OP preachers? Why won't you answer the question(s)?
Praxeas
08-30-2010, 07:06 PM
Yeah, that Charnock is something else!
Perhaps Charnock is struggling and this is a cry for help...
would seem that the command against sexual immorality was pretty cut and dry, as opposed to circumcision (hehe) .... To the apostles ... Since it made on the list of do nots at the council of jerusalem in acts 15 ...
But not sure we should be eating blood sausage or strangled animals either.
in case mizpeh missed it
Perhaps Charnock is struggling and this is a cry for help...
I think you've nailed it. (sorry for the pun, again)
But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace. 1 Cor 7:15
the new guy has to be a Christian, though.
Where's your answer Mizpeh ...
Is it a sin ... huh ... huh ... huh???
CC1 is now an ultrafreakycon ... oh the irony.
LOL!!! Are you going to come visit Tennessee anytime soon?
DAII,
Are you going to come visit Tennessee anytime soon?
Yes, hopefully in the near future ... It will be Memphis .. now that JC and Darcie are campus pastors in Cordova.
Yes, hopefully in the near future ... It will be Memphis .. now that JC and Darcie are campus pastors in Cordova.
When you get your plans set let me know. I have a couple of customers in the Memphis area I might be able to visit and get together with you for lunch or coffee if you want to. I still haven't seen Eddie & Sherri's new sanctuary in JAX!
Mr. Smith
08-30-2010, 07:13 PM
I said it because I don't know if you left wing libbers have some modern take on scripture regarding this subject that us old fogies don't have!
Note I did not say that you did only that you might and it would be interesting to see what you guys think.
Mr. Smith, Left-wing Libber. Has kind of a nice ring to it.
When the bible says, "Thou shalt not", you need to look at the original Greek manuscripts. You'll find that when a predicate and a pronoun and an adverb, combined with a past participle, inverted through a subjective verb, are intersected with the word "Not", there is a Greek rule that actually makes a word mean the opposite. So when the bible says, "Thou shalt not commit fornication", the word "Not" means that you can't, NOT commit fornication, so in actuality, we're commanded to commit fornication. Not only is it not prohibited, it's commanded.
How's that for "Left-wing liberal"?
rgcraig
08-30-2010, 07:13 PM
Yes, hopefully in the near future ... It will be Memphis .. now that JC and Darcie are campus pastors in Cordova.
Maybe CC1 can plan a business trip during that visit and we can all go to Houston's!
Hoovie
08-30-2010, 07:15 PM
I missed the Nashville/Jackson crowd last week when we were at Clarksville for "Shema" Apostolic Homeschool/family gathering. Would LOVE to see you guys saints and sinners et al.
Liberal
08-30-2010, 07:15 PM
Prophetic word: The death of this forum will not be its theological slant, or supposed lack thereof, but those whose seek to spiritualize politics.
Brilliant statement and this could apply to American Christianity.
Mr. Smith, Left-wing Libber. Has kind of a nice ring to it.
When the bible says, "Thou shalt not", you need to look at the original Greek manuscripts. You'll find that when a predicate and a pronoun and an adverb, combined with a past participle, inverted through a subjective verb, are intersected with the word "Not", there is a Greek rule that actually makes a word mean the opposite. So when the bible says, "Thou shalt not commit fornication", the word "Not" means that you can't, NOT commit fornication, so in actuality, we're commanded to commit fornication. Not only is it not prohibited, it's commanded.
How's that for "Left-wing liberal"?
ROFLMBO!!!:ursofunny
I missed the Nashville/Jackson crowd last week when we were at Clarksville for "Shema" Apostolic Homeschool/family gathering. Would LOVE to see you guys saints and sinners et al.
Is "Shema" short for "Shemale" and some sort of transvestite gathering? I mean I believe in being inclusive but.........
Wish I could have seen you while you were in TN.
Hoovie
08-30-2010, 07:19 PM
Is "Shema" short for "Shemale" and some sort of transvestite gathering? I mean I believe in being inclusive but.........
Wish I could have seen you while you were in TN.
You are one sick puppy but I still love ya - hence the sinner inclusion.
Maybe you CC1 can plan a business trip during that visit and we can all go to Houston's!
Oh great. Now you have me fantasyzing about a salad from Houstons!!!!! Oh, and with their garlic cheese toast. Oh, and their homemade garlic ranch dressing. Absoutely the best salad in the world.
Sounds like a great idea!
LadyChocolate
08-30-2010, 07:19 PM
Sex Before Marriage: Does God Approve?
Well, the correct answer for me would be:
I was a female before I married and I remained a female after I was married. I'm now divorced and I'm still a female. So my sex is female no matter what my maritial status is and I think God approves because - - he made me.
That's the best answer I read in this thread! :toofunny
When you get your plans set let me know. I have a couple of customers in the Memphis area I might be able to visit and get together with you for lunch or coffee if you want to. I still haven't seen Eddie & Sherri's new sanctuary in JAX!
Sounds very good, CC. I'm lookin' at Oct. or Nov.
Brilliant statement and this could apply to American Christianity.
I know.
Sounds very good, CC. I'm lookin' at Oct. or Nov.
Cool. I will be out of state the week of Oct 10th but probably around the rest of the time.
*AQuietPlace*
08-30-2010, 07:27 PM
Mr. Smith, Left-wing Libber. Has kind of a nice ring to it.
When the bible says, "Thou shalt not", you need to look at the original Greek manuscripts. You'll find that when a predicate and a pronoun and an adverb, combined with a past participle, inverted through a subjective verb, are intersected with the word "Not", there is a Greek rule that actually makes a word mean the opposite. So when the bible says, "Thou shalt not commit fornication", the word "Not" means that you can't, NOT commit fornication, so in actuality, we're commanded to commit fornication. Not only is it not prohibited, it's commanded.
How's that for "Left-wing liberal"?
I'll bet you gave yourself a headache writing that one.
Mr. Smith, Left-wing Libber. Has kind of a nice ring to it.
When the bible says, "Thou shalt not", you need to look at the original Greek manuscripts. You'll find that when a predicate and a pronoun and an adverb, combined with a past participle, inverted through a subjective verb, are intersected with the word "Not", there is a Greek rule that actually makes a word mean the opposite. So when the bible says, "Thou shalt not commit fornication", the word "Not" means that you can't, NOT commit fornication, so in actuality, we're commanded to commit fornication. Not only is it not prohibited, it's commanded.
How's that for "Left-wing liberal"?
Great post ... even better hermeneutic.
Maybe CC1 can plan a business trip during that visit and we can all go to Houston's!
Leaving Houston to go to Houston's .... sounds yummy.
Notice they don't name any of the good restaurants Katy's ... huh, Rob.
Leaving Houston to go to Houston's .... sounds yummy.
The closed the Houstons in Nashville and I have never forgiven them. It was always very full at lunch so I don't understand why. They said they lost their lease but there are a lot of places they could have relocated to.
Mr. Smith
08-30-2010, 07:37 PM
Great post ... even better hermeneutic.
The hermeneutics are something I picked up from Coadie.
Mr. Smith
08-30-2010, 07:38 PM
I'll bet you gave yourself a headache writing that one.
Just trying to share the truth.
The hermeneutics are something I picked up from Coadie.
He's my favorite theo-political writer.
pelathais
08-30-2010, 07:50 PM
My personal definition is it is the social union/legal contract between a man and woman that creates kinship ... which should be intimate and sexual in nature.
Define "American" ...
You need to sleep during normal hours.
You have my address. Send me paychecks along with a schedule to keep. The highest bidder gets to tell me when to sleep.
An "American" can be understood in a manner similar to a "Christian."
A "Christian" is someone who follows Christ. An "American" is someone who has followed Amerigo Vespucci.
You have my address. Send me paychecks along with a schedule to keep. The highest bidder gets to tell me when to sleep.
An "American" can be understood in a manner similar to a "Christian."
A "Christian" is someone who follows Christ. An "American" is someone who has followed Amerigo Vespucci.
The cartographer made 4 voyages to the New World and died in Italy ...
Venice here I come.
I wanna live in America ... so much to do in America.
johnny44
08-30-2010, 08:26 PM
Mr. Smith, Left-wing Libber. Has kind of a nice ring to it.
When the bible says, "Thou shalt not", you need to look at the original Greek manuscripts. You'll find that when a predicate and a pronoun and an adverb, combined with a past participle, inverted through a subjective verb, are intersected with the word "Not", there is a Greek rule that actually makes a word mean the opposite. So when the bible says, "Thou shalt not commit fornication", the word "Not" means that you can't, NOT commit fornication, so in actuality, we're commanded to commit fornication. Not only is it not prohibited, it's commanded.
How's that for "Left-wing liberal"? YA all keep talking like that and I'll have to go back to school.
Cindy
08-30-2010, 08:29 PM
YA all keep talking like that and I'll have to go back to school.
:toofunny
We commonly use the word "fornication" to refer to sexual activity by single folks and "adultery" to refer to sexual activity by a married person with someone other than his/her partner. Or some times we define them as "pre-marital" and "extra-marital" relations.
Does the Bible define sexual activity this way?
Does the Bible say anywhere that sexual activity by someone who is not legally married with someone else who is not legally married is wrong? Where?
johnny44
08-30-2010, 08:35 PM
The cartographer made 4 voyages to the New World and died in Italy ...
Venice here I come.
I wanna live in America ... so much to do in America.If your talking about that part of America that is south of us NO WAY JOSE.
Aquila
08-31-2010, 08:21 AM
We live in a new day. One in which the very definition of morality is being rewritten. With that in mind, do you believe the traditional Christian view concerning premarital sex is old-fashioned and outdated?
I hear many educators and social physicians say that sex before marriage is a natural function of adolescence. Popular culture views premarital sex favorably. In fact, there is an EXPECTATION that kids will have sex before they're married.
What do you think? Do you believe premarital sex is okay? Is there any reason teens or unmarried adults should abstain?
Of course it's "natural". But the Bible still teaches that intimacy belongs between two married individuals. I'm sure that intimacy outside of marriage is just as common today as it was in Roman times. I'd recomend that unmarried couples consider marriage as they grow in the Lord. Eventually a time will come when they will be called to choose the Lord over their lifestyle.
One issue I do see though is how long we have people wait before marriage. In biblical times people married at 12 or 13 years of age. Today we expect them to wait until their mid 20's, or after their college education. No doubt, that stresses the human condition.
Aquila
08-31-2010, 08:24 AM
While I have no facts on this, I heard that early Christians often refused legal marriage in Rome. One reason is that the seal of the imperor (revered as a god) wasn't desirable on Christian relationships. It's like those who refuse to legally marry because they believe the Government has no say or hand in the matter.
However, in our culture, failure to marry leaves both parties open for much heart ache.
Timmy
08-31-2010, 08:27 AM
Wow..hard to believe there is any doubt over this issue..
Why should this issue be different from any other issue? :heeheehee
Aquila
08-31-2010, 08:28 AM
I was given a book by a minister that taught some very liberal views regarding intimacy between people. It presents the following:
Biblically forbidden sex practices appear to be:
• Adultery – Sexual activity outside of the marriage covenant.
• Fornication – Indiscriminant and promiscuous sexual activity.
• Sodomy – Homosexual rape, male temple prostitution
• Incest – Sexual activity with close relatives.
• Rape – Forced sexual activity with a woman.
• Bestiality – Sexual activity with animals.
• Pedophilia – Sexual activity with children.
• Harlotry – Sexual activity as a religious rite or for money.
• Lust – The desire to actually commit adultery.
The Bible appears to allow for the following sex practices:
• Monogamy – Marriage consisting of one man and one woman.
• Polygamy – Marriage consisting of one man and more than one woman.
• Concubines – Mistresses recognized within the marriage covenant.
• War Brides – Arranged marriage with female prisoners of war.
• Levirate Marriage – The marrying of a dead brother’s first wife, even if the living brother was already married.
• Servant Marriage – The arrangement of marriage between servants.
• Eunuchs – Celibates who cannot (or choose not to) copulate with the opposite or same gender.
• Erotic Literature & Poetry – Writings of an erotic nature (Song of Solomon).
• Erotic Entertainment – Erotic dancing (exemplified by the Shulamite and her erotic dance before her countrymen).
• Sexual Fantasy – Sexual thoughts about another (exemplified by the Shulamite and her Lover).
The OT ethic on this subject is very interesting considering NT understanding. But the NT was written under the Roman Empire. In Rome things such as polygamy were illegal. So we don't see these issues in the first century. I can't help but wonder however, what if Rome hadn't prohibited the practices of the Jews? Would the NT be more like the OT?
Weird. LOL
Timmy
08-31-2010, 08:48 AM
. . .
Does the Bible say anywhere that sexual activity by someone who is not legally married with someone else who is not legally married is wrong? Where?
I don't think it clearly says so anywhere (unless we define "sexual immorality" to be a list that includes it), but Paul implies it here, IMO:
1 Cor 7:9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
So, in his opinion ("But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment"), the only good reason for getting married is to have sex, if you really need to. Could this one scripture be the entire basis for the taboo against premarital sex, in the Christian world?
In the OT, if premarital sex were forbidden, why is there a long list of people (close kin) who you were not to approach for sex, in Leviticus 18?
allstate1
08-31-2010, 01:11 PM
Well sex before marriage is a sin!! But it is a god idea to do it! Who would buy a car without test driving it???!
berkeley
08-31-2010, 01:33 PM
Well sex before marriage is a sin!! But it is a god idea to do it! Who would buy a car without test driving it???!
This is partly why this is know as the repro forum. Thanks.
Well sex before marriage is a sin!! But it is a god idea to do it! Who would buy a car without test driving it???!
Someone said to a woman one time, "Sex before marriage is important. Who would buy a pair of shoes without trying them on?" To which the woman replied, "And who would want to buy used shoes?"
allstate1
08-31-2010, 01:37 PM
O well!!! Its not like you can use it all up!!!
from what I understand there are a lot of husbands who, after being pursued, enticed, seduced, and then married to that sweet Apostolic girl, are now wondering, "How come we're not allowed to have sex after marriage?"
Aquila
08-31-2010, 01:43 PM
Someone said to a woman one time, "Sex before marriage is important. Who would buy a pair of shoes without trying them on?" To which the woman replied, "And who would want to buy used shoes?"
LOL
rgcraig
08-31-2010, 01:46 PM
This is partly why this is know as the repro forum. Thanks.
Oh, whatever - - there are 80 posts in this thread - this is the first to make a joke about it.
berkeley
08-31-2010, 01:49 PM
Oh, whatever - - there are 80 posts in this thread - this is the first to make a joke about it.
That was a joke? All jokes must include one or more smilies.
allstate1
08-31-2010, 01:56 PM
That was a joke? All jokes must include one or more smilies.
I wasnt joking! It was a crude remark but there is a lot of truth in it. Sexual incompatibly is a major cause for indescretions.
berkeley
08-31-2010, 02:00 PM
I wasnt joking! It was a crude remark but there is a lot of truth in it. Sexual incompatibly is a major cause for indescretions.
Sexual wot? Really? It's a problem if your only aim is sexual gratification. Feed the beast. So, sex isn't "spiritual" anymore?
rgcraig
08-31-2010, 02:00 PM
Let the record show for Charnock that one out of 56 posters on this thread is okay with sex before marriage.
Should I ban allstate?
rgcraig
08-31-2010, 02:01 PM
I wasnt joking! It was a crude remark but there is a lot of truth in it. Sexual incompatibly is a major cause for indescretions.
Really?
I think you need to do a little more research on that.
allstate1
08-31-2010, 02:05 PM
Really?
I think you need to do a little more research on that.
I have done plenty of research dear!!!!! I am a licensed family councel !!! @rgcraig you have some of the best remarks and insu=ight on here but I speak the truth! On another subject !! I just drove by the old JCM campus for the first time in years it is falling down!!
allstate1
08-31-2010, 02:10 PM
Sexual wot? Really? It's a problem if your only aim is sexual gratification. Feed the beast. So, sex isn't "spiritual" anymore?
Sexaul gratification is why a lot of youngsters are in such a hurry to get married!! I have never had spiritual sex!!!
ManOfWord
08-31-2010, 02:10 PM
Of course it's wrong....not only wrong but sinful behavior because the Bible states that it is. I think that is pretty simple. No, I don't think it is ever justified....maybe justified in the eyes of the one partaking in the behavior, but not in God's eyes biblically. I think most people here agree with that. :D
rgcraig
08-31-2010, 02:12 PM
I have done plenty of research dear!!!!! I am a licensed family councel !!! @rgcraig you have some of the best remarks and insu=ight on here but I speak the truth! On another subject !! I just drove by the old JCM campus for the first time in years it is falling down!!
Well, thanks, but don't you feel there's more to it than sexual incompatibility? There's usually a reason behind the incompatibility that would be considered the root of the problem. Anyone can have sex. But, the reasons they don't want to have sex with someone is the real problem. Does that make sense?
Yes, I've heard that it's really sad. Good ole Beasley Rd. - - the apts on Beasley Rd. was were I started out my marriage - - wow, that was a long, long time ago.
ManOfWord
08-31-2010, 02:15 PM
Renda, your pic obviously show you exuding content with your grand-baby! Also shows that you look way too young to have a grand-baby!
Score points? LOL!
berkeley
08-31-2010, 02:15 PM
Sexaul gratification is why a lot of youngsters are in such a hurry to get married!! I have never had spiritual sex!!!
Every sexual act is spiritual... or there'd be no ramifications.
rgcraig
08-31-2010, 02:16 PM
Renda, your pic obviously show you exuding content with your grand-baby! Also shows that you look way too young to have a grand-baby!
Score points? LOL!
MAJOR points!!!!
Thanks!
allstate1
08-31-2010, 02:18 PM
Well, thanks, but don't you feel there's more to it than sexual incompatibility? There's usually a reason behind the incompatibility that would be considered the root of the problem. Anyone can have sex. But, the reasons they don't want to have sex with someone is the real problem. Does that make sense?
Yes, I've heard that it's really sad. Good ole Beasley Rd. - - the apts on Beasley Rd. was were I started out my marriage - - wow, that was a long, long time ago.
Sure it makes sense!! And there is very little available data to arrive at an overwhelming conclusion on couples who have waited till marriage and/or married at a young (17-20) age!
Sexaul gratification is why a lot of youngsters are in such a hurry to get married!! I have never had spiritual sex!!!
speaking of spiritual sex,
I received an email today about ghost sex
but I don't think I should post it on AFF.
Praxeas
08-31-2010, 02:23 PM
I wasnt joking! It was a crude remark but there is a lot of truth in it. Sexual incompatibly is a major cause for indescretions.
How would 2 people know they are incompatible unless they were already promiscuous? How would they know unless they already had the experience?
Can't that really be about one persons experience verses another's inexperience? In which case the problem is not compatibility but either one persons unwillingness to learn and grow in that area or another persons unwillingness to change?
How much of the later "indiscretions" are really due NOT to sexual incompatibility but to a lack of affection later in the marriage...something that could not be discovered by premarital sex?
Could this actually just be a problem of a sex hungry society that sees sex as more important than any other aspects of a relationship?
/
allstate1
08-31-2010, 02:31 PM
How would 2 people know they are incompatible unless they were already promiscuous? How would they know unless they already had the experience?
Can't that really be about one persons experience verses another's inexperience? In which case the problem is not compatibility but either one persons unwillingness to learn and grow in that area or another persons unwillingness to change?
How much of the later "indiscretions" are really due NOT to sexual incompatibility but to a lack of affection later in the marriage...something that could not be discovered by premarital sex?
Could this actually just be a problem of a sex hungry society that sees sex as more important than any other aspects of a relationship?
/
All good points!! But what happens when its a couple in thier 40's or 50's on their 2nd or 3rd marriage?? And I do agree with the sexual society! Do you realize that studies have shown the desire to reproduce is stronger than hunger at points of time in the life cycle? Even without a sexual society (mass media) there will be a stong desire to have sex! The guys in Sodom didnot have TV or Porn to inform them how to cross dress to trick men!!
Timmy
08-31-2010, 02:31 PM
Sexaul gratification is why a lot of youngsters are in such a hurry to get married!! I have never had spiritual sex!!!
They're following Paul's advice.
allstate1
08-31-2010, 02:36 PM
They're following Paul's advice.
well some should burn!
rgcraig
08-31-2010, 02:38 PM
You know, that is one thing that I wonder if God didn't get the formula just a little bit off. I know he wanted the earth to be replenished, but sex is pretty nifty already - - a strong drive wasn't THAT necessary was it?
It seems to have caused more problems with promiscuity.
MissBrattified
08-31-2010, 02:49 PM
We live in a new day. One in which the very definition of morality is being rewritten. With that in mind, do you believe the traditional Christian view concerning premarital sex is old-fashioned and outdated?
I hear many educators and social physicians say that sex before marriage is a natural function of adolescence. Popular culture views premarital sex favorably. In fact, there is an EXPECTATION that kids will have sex before they're married.
What do you think? Do you believe premarital sex is okay? Is there any reason teens or unmarried adults should abstain?
Of course premarital sex isn't okay. There are many reasons to abstain, the most important one being that God objects to premarital sex.
However, I think it's important to note that God punished premarital sex differently than adultery by requiring a marriage and/or payment.
Premarital Sex:
Exodus 22:16 And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife.
Exodus 22:17 If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins.
and
Deuteronomy 22:28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
Deuteronomy 22:29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.
Adultery:
Leviticus 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
Truthseeker
08-31-2010, 02:51 PM
Amazing this is even an ongoing discussion.
MissBrattified
08-31-2010, 02:52 PM
Well sex before marriage is a sin!! But it is a god idea to do it! Who would buy a car without test driving it???!
Surely you aren't serious....
rgcraig
08-31-2010, 02:53 PM
Amazing this is even an ongoing discussion.
Oh, it's just Charnock. You know, he thinks we are all heathens. You included since you are on AFF. It's all of us - - we're all bad, bad, bad people.
allstate1
08-31-2010, 02:56 PM
Surely you aren't serious....
Well............. I have been threatened so I will drop it!
Timmy
08-31-2010, 03:00 PM
Of course premarital sex isn't okay. There are many reasons to abstain, the most important one being that God objects to premarital sex.
However, I think it's important to note that God punished premarital sex differently than adultery by requiring a marriage and/or payment.
Premarital Sex:
Exodus 22:16 And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife.
Exodus 22:17 If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins.
. . .
:blink
:toofunny
MissBrattified
08-31-2010, 03:14 PM
:blink
:toofunny
You're very funny, Timmy! Nice job, catching that. :D
In all seriousness, though, I would consider it a punishment to be forced to marry someone I had sex with because of a lapse in judgment. (Someone I didn't love.)
allstate1
08-31-2010, 03:17 PM
You're very funny, Timmy! Nice job, catching that. :D
In all seriousness, though, I would consider it a punishment to be forced to marry someone I had sex with because of a lapse in judgment. (Someone I didn't love.)
You are almost to my point!!!
Praxeas
08-31-2010, 03:21 PM
All good points!! But what happens when its a couple in thier 40's or 50's on their 2nd or 3rd marriage?? And I do agree with the sexual society! Do you realize that studies have shown the desire to reproduce is stronger than hunger at points of time in the life cycle? Even without a sexual society (mass media) there will be a stong desire to have sex! The guys in Sodom didnot have TV or Porn to inform them how to cross dress to trick men!!
You don't have to have TV to be a sexualized society. Sodom wasn't focused on reproduction. That wasn't their problem
If two people having been married before, aren't getting what they need, I suggest the problem is not that they not sexually try each other out first.
First of all a couple can discuss these things without having to actually do it, and find out where the other is at and how much the other is willing to grow and learn in that area.
MissBrattified
08-31-2010, 03:21 PM
You are almost to my point!!!
Not really, because I believe we should obey God's laws even when they are inconvenient, and I also believe we can choose to love someone. Love is an action verb. I Corinthians 13
Furthermore, your point is actually negated, since the couple was presumably attracted to one another enough to have sex the first time outside of marriage, so that factor is out of the way. If they already have physical chemistry, all that's left is learning how to have affection for one another.
That said, since we don't live under Mosaic law, I don't agree with forcing young couples to marry because of a mistake anymore than I think we should be stoning those who commit adultery.
rgcraig
08-31-2010, 03:25 PM
Not really, because I believe we should obey God's laws even when they are inconvenient, and I also believe we can choose to love someone. Love is an action verb. I Corinthians 13
Furthermore, your point is actually negated, since the couple was presumably attracted to one another enough to have sex the first time outside of marriage, so that factor is out of the way. If they already have physical chemistry, all that's left is learning how to have affection for one another.
That said, since we don't live under Mosaic law, I don't agree with forcing young couples to marry because of a mistake anymore than I think we should be stoning those who commit adultery.
....and putting up with their dirty clothes on the floor or her not wanting to cook or adapting to actually living with another person 24/7. :toofunny
MissBrattified
08-31-2010, 03:26 PM
....and putting up with their dirty clothes on the floor or her not wanting to cook or adapting to actually living with another person 24/7. :toofunny
Well, sure, but that's the case for people who love one another, too. :D
rgcraig
08-31-2010, 03:27 PM
Well, sure, but that's the case for people who love one another, too. :)
That's true, but love is blind, right?
OnTheFritz
08-31-2010, 03:27 PM
You know, that is one thing that I wonder if God didn't get the formula just a little bit off. I know he wanted the earth to be replenished, but sex is pretty nifty already - - a strong drive wasn't THAT necessary was it?
It seems to have caused more problems with promiscuity.
Amen to that...
allstate1
08-31-2010, 03:29 PM
I am talking about sex before marriage! You said you would consider it punishment to be force to marry some one you had sex with because of a lack of judgement (someone you didnt love)!!!!! Just to make it hasty... Young couple gets caught having sex ( lack of judgement) the parents and overbearing guilt preaching pastor tells them now they should and will have to get married ( citing various scriptures and giving insane reasons)! To keep from going to hell and living in sin they get married.. guess whayt happens in just a few years????
Sherri
08-31-2010, 03:30 PM
We've never told anyone to get married just because they got caught having sex, or even ended up pregnant. We've had parents force them into it, but we never suggest it. Two wrongs don't make a right. BUT.......on the other hand.........I can't believe this is even a discussion subject on here. The Bible is clear that sex outside of marriage is a sin.
MissBrattified
08-31-2010, 03:31 PM
That's true, but love is blind, right?
I don't know...I think that only immature love is blind. True love has its eyes wide open, and actively cares for the other person in spite of everything. That's a skill that can be learned (and taught).
MissBrattified
08-31-2010, 03:34 PM
I am talking about sex before marriage! You said you would consider it punishment to be force to marry some one you had sex with because of a lack of judgement (someone you didnt love)!!!!! Just to make it hasty... Young couple gets caught having sex ( lack of judgement) the parents and overbearing guilt preaching pastor tells them now they should and will have to get married ( citing various scriptures and giving insane reasons)! To keep from going to hell and living in sin they get married.. guess whayt happens in just a few years????
I don't see how that relates to your post about trying the car before you buy it.
I would be very upset if I found out my husband had tried 10 other cars before he decided to "buy" me.
Because of our culture and mindset, I don't believe in shotgun weddings. I DO believe that if a couple decides to marry in those circumstances, they can still have a committed, loving relationship if they have good guidance and have their minds made up to make it work.
I don't believe it's insane to suggest that a young couple having premarital sex consider marriage. It depends on their age and the circumstances. I just don't think it should be forced.
allstate1
08-31-2010, 03:35 PM
We've never told anyone to get married just because they got caught having sex, or even ended up pregnant. We've had parents force them into it, but we never suggest it. Two wrongs don't make a right. BUT.......on the other hand.........I can't believe this is even a discussion subject on here. The Bible is clear that sex outside of marriage is a sin.
I have seen it happen more than just a few times! I do believe it is a sin! The UPC and other conservative orgs. need to have educated counceling for these people and not some beatem down preacher!! Pastors should be required to have several hours of councel education including family,addictions,and grief.
rgcraig
08-31-2010, 03:35 PM
We've never told anyone to get married just because they got caught having sex, or even ended up pregnant. We've had parents force them into it, but we never suggest it. Two wrongs don't make a right. BUT.......on the other hand.........I can't believe this is even a discussion subject on here. The Bible is clear that sex outside of marriage is a sin.
It's just because Charnock came on blasting how terrible AFF is and was met with some resistance. I believe he was reaching out to try and make a point, but it's only proved that we aren't a bunch of heathens as he stated.
rgcraig
08-31-2010, 03:35 PM
I have seen it happen more than just a few times! I do believe it is a sin! The UPC and other conservative orgs. need to have educated counceling for these people and not some beatem down preacher!! Pastors should be required to have several hours of councel education including family,addictions,and grief.
I agree.
MissBrattified
08-31-2010, 03:39 PM
I have seen it happen more than just a few times! I do believe it is a sin! The UPC and other conservative orgs. need to have educated counceling for these people and not some beatem down preacher!! Pastors should be required to have several hours of councel education including family,addictions,and grief.
No argument there. There are a lot of parents who handle these situations badly as well, both Christian and secular.
Timmy
08-31-2010, 04:18 PM
You're very funny, Timmy! Nice job, catching that. :D
In all seriousness, though, I would consider it a punishment to be forced to marry someone I had sex with because of a lapse in judgment. (Someone I didn't love.)
The Deut scripture (which in many translations is talking about rape, not just seduction or consensual sex) is in a list of many other sins, such as "Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woollen and linen together." The other one, in Exodus, is followed soon by "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." Do we live by these clear commands, today? Should we?
Charnock
08-31-2010, 04:54 PM
It's just because Charnock came on blasting how terrible AFF is and was met with some resistance. I believe he was reaching out to try and make a point, but it's only proved that we aren't a bunch of heathens as he stated.
:razz
It hasn't proved anything. It's shown that there are some folks, who call themselves Pentecostals, who believe it's permissible to sleep around before marriage.
That's not really surprising considering the clientele.
Hoovie
08-31-2010, 05:10 PM
Mrs Bratty's post are once again on target!
"Choosing" to love someone.
What a concept in a world where we are taught the primary question is our feelings and "falling" in (or out) of "love"!
Hoovie
08-31-2010, 05:11 PM
:razz
It hasn't proved anything. It's shown that there are some folks, who call themselves Pentecostals, who believe it's permissible to sleep around before marriage.
That's not really surprising considering the clientele.
Which folks in particular are you referring to Charnock?
crakjak
08-31-2010, 05:17 PM
Crakjak or Aquila should chime in ... they can tell us its wrong but no biggie because no one goes to hell eternally and we're all saved anyway ...
Immoral sexual behavior produces hellish life situations, but God is still God and restoration is His business. Condemning Pharisees make these situations worst by their lack of wisdom and love for those caught in the immaturity and ignorance of the wages of sin.
How's that Danny Boy? LOL
Bump
rgcraig
08-31-2010, 07:39 PM
:razz
It hasn't proved anything. It's shown that there are some folks, who call themselves Pentecostals, who believe it's permissible to sleep around before marriage.
That's not really surprising considering the clientele.
One poster. Come on.
rgcraig
08-31-2010, 07:42 PM
Which folks in particular are you referring to Charnock?
He's speaking evangelistically - - the only one that alluded to it was allstate and I'm not sure if he claims to be Pentecostal or not.
Hoovie
08-31-2010, 08:25 PM
He's speaking evangelistically - - the only one that alluded to it was allstate and I'm not sure if he claims to be Pentecostal or not.
Perhaps more importantly...
In spite of all the other hyperbole in this thread, Allstate has also stated he believes it "is sin" in post 398.
"I do believe it is a sin!"
rgcraig
08-31-2010, 08:54 PM
Perhaps more importantly...
In spite of all the other hyperbole in this thread, Allstate has also stated he believes it "is sin" in post 398.
"I do believe it is a sin!"
Yes, glad you pointed that out.
coadie
08-31-2010, 09:07 PM
I have seen it happen more than just a few times! I do believe it is a sin! The UPC and other conservative orgs. need to have educated counceling for these people and not some beatem down preacher!! Pastors should be required to have several hours of councel education including family,addictions,and grief.
It is the other way around. Counseling professionals need pastorial education. Most secular counsellling is a waste of money. In some cases we see them take 5 sessions and not derive a "presenting problem"
Some people claim depression and we have become a Prozac nation. Under that sometimes a little repenting clears it right up.
Praxeas
08-31-2010, 11:45 PM
:razz
It hasn't proved anything. It's shown that there are some folks, who call themselves Pentecostals, who believe it's permissible to sleep around before marriage.
That's not really surprising considering the clientele.
One Person. Didn't say it was permissible (He said God does not approve), I didn't see him say he is Pentecostal, but maybe he is...you ever hear of a blunderbuster? That's what you got. You might want to trade it in with something that shoots straight and has a scope on it, because not only are you just shooting off like nuts, you are shooting all over the place but in the right direction
Maximilian
09-01-2010, 12:38 AM
Charnock, is the Spirit convicting you of something? :)
Maximilian
09-01-2010, 12:39 AM
But what if you were married, your husband left you for another woman, and vanished? What if you can't even locate him for say....four years? What if you can't get his signature on the divorce papers?
Is it okay then? After all, it's not your fault he was a cheater? It's not your fault you can't marry the new guy.
Is this keeping you awake at night?
Maximilian
09-01-2010, 12:44 AM
We've never told anyone to get married just because they got caught having sex, or even ended up pregnant. We've had parents force them into it, but we never suggest it. Two wrongs don't make a right. BUT.......on the other hand.........I can't believe this is even a discussion subject on here. The Bible is clear that sex outside of marriage is a sin.
If one poster wants to discuss, why not. Nothing is off-limits to talk about. Look at the "clear cut" teaching Paul had to wade through with those Corinthians!
Correcting sexual immorality in his first letter (really his second), this is where he reminded them that their bodies should be honored spiritually, since they are temples of the Spirit.
Biblically from OT to NT, fornication is a sin. I suggest my brother read the book "Not Even a Hint."
Aquila
09-01-2010, 06:38 AM
Crakjak or Aquila should chime in ... they can tell us its wrong but no biggie because no one goes to hell eternally and we're all saved anyway ...
LOL
Hell isn't a joke, eternal or not. Every idle word Dan. Careful. ;)
Aquila
09-01-2010, 06:42 AM
I've heard of devout ulta-ultra-ultra conservative Christians who "marry" privately without government involvement. While I think this opens them up for loosing out on the legal benefits of marriage... is this something God recognizes?
I think the issue is simple. It's a sin, and sin has consequences. The guilt, shame, insecurity, and perhaps ultimate pain of heartache (not to mention Hell) are the results of this sin. Legal marriage is still a haven of safety.
Just courious... has everyone here waited until marriage? Just curious.
allstate1
09-01-2010, 07:14 AM
I've heard of devout ulta-ultra-ultra conservative Christians who "marry" privately without government involvement. While I think this opens them up for loosing out on the legal benefits of marriage... is this something God recognizes?
I think the issue is simple. It's a sin, and sin has consequences. The guilt, shame, insecurity, and perhaps ultimate pain of heartache (not to mention Hell) are the results of this sin. Legal marriage is still a haven of safety.
Just courious... has everyone here waited until marriage? Just curious.
I did not wait until marriage. I was raised in a UPCI church and the first several encounters were with (church girls) most after camp meeting services! My first marriage lasted 7 years. I found it much easier to wait for sex when dating my current wife! Why?? I believe it was because we were both older and previously married so the allure of that sexual experience that as a younger person ravashes our minds and bodies. I do believe sex before marriage is a sin!!!! I just wish there was a way to have sex education for these young people taught by someone educated in the field and also in a churc environment! All they hear is "its a sin. Dont do it its wrong you have a spirit or demon if you think about sex" instead of educating them on why they are feeling the way they do!!
Aquila
09-01-2010, 07:17 AM
Good points allstate. Thanks for opening up your story to us.
I did not wait until marriage. I was raised in a UPCI church and the first several encounters were with (church girls) most after camp meeting services! My first marriage lasted 7 years. I found it much easier to wait for sex when dating my current wife! Why?? I believe it was because we were both older and previously married so the allure of that sexual experience that as a younger person ravashes our minds and bodies. I do believe sex before marriage is a sin!!!! I just wish there was a way to have sex education for these young people taught by someone educated in the field and also in a churc environment! All they hear is "its a sin. Dont do it its wrong you have a spirit or demon if you think about sex" instead of educating them on why they are feeling the way they do!!
TMI ... there are various programs available today to educate teens ... and young adults ...
One within the UPCI is called "Worth the Wait". Others use things like Purity rings.
That said ... it is still prevalent in the fellowship as it is in other denominations as it is in the "world".
One girl I know who was "holiness" to the core and very defensive/offensive about the Message just got married to a boy she loves because she's preggo.
But she still wears a skirt and hasn't cut her hair :)
Of course this sin like lying, cheating, gossiping, backbiting has its consequences
allstate1
09-01-2010, 07:26 AM
TMI ... there are various programs available today to educate teens ... and young adults ...
One within the UPCI is called "Worth the Wait". Others use things like Purity rings.
That said ... it is still prevalent in the fellowship as it is in other denominations as it is in the "world".
One girl I know who was "holiness" to the core and very defensive about the Message just got married to a boy she loves because she's preggo.
Of course this sin like lying, cheating, gossiping, backbiting has its consequences
Sorry my story burned your virgin eyes DA but I am not hiding my past although it was quite sinful. I was once the sunday school teacher for the young adults and asked pastor about bringing in the Worth the Wait program and was denied. It seems like here in MS and LA its just one of those ignore it and hope it goes away things!
rgcraig
09-01-2010, 07:56 AM
Funny thing - - I bet there could be ONE person in Charnock's church that feels that sex before marriage is okay too. BUT, he wouldn't say his whole church are heathens.
Mr. Smith
09-01-2010, 08:50 AM
The great hazard to the, "Sex is a sin, sex is a sin, sex is a sin, sex is a sin" approach is, many religious people grow up thinking sex is dirty. For many, it never really makes the transition from "Sex is dirty" to, "Sex is beautiful" in marriage. The result for many is a lifetime of sexual dysfunction that displays symptoms in so many different ways.
I remember my younger years when TV was 100% equal with Lucifer. As a result, I would spend every shopping trip in the TV section, every visit to friends' houses in front of their TV, and the list goes on and on.
I think the same thing often happens with sex. It's presented as such an awful thing that it becomes incredibly enticing and twisted to the point it's irresistible. It's tough enough, as it is, to walk away from, much less come up against the way religion often presents it.
iceniez
09-01-2010, 09:22 AM
So now a Question what does 1 Cor 7:36 mean ?
Twisp
09-01-2010, 09:24 AM
The great hazard to the, "Sex is a sin, sex is a sin, sex is a sin, sex is a sin" approach is, many religious people grow up thinking sex is dirty. For many, it never really makes the transition from "Sex is dirty" to, "Sex is beautiful" in marriage. The result for many is a lifetime of sexual dysfunction that displays symptoms in so many different ways.
I remember my younger years when TV was 100% equal with Lucifer. As a result, I would spend every shopping trip in the TV section, every visit to friends' houses in front of their TV, and the list goes on and on.
I think the same thing often happens with sex. It's presented as such an awful thing that it becomes incredibly enticing and twisted to the point it's irresistible. It's tough enough, as it is, to walk away from, much less come up against the way religion often presents it.
Nurture sure can screw up nature sometimes, can't it?
rgcraig
09-01-2010, 09:36 AM
So now a Question what does 1 Cor 7:36 mean ?
Couple of explanations:
1 Corinthians 7:36 (The Message)
36-38If a man has a woman friend to whom he is loyal but never intended to marry, having decided to serve God as a "single," and then changes his mind, deciding he should marry her, he should go ahead and marry. It's no sin; it's not even a "step down" from celibacy, as some say. On the other hand, if a man is comfortable in his decision for a single life in service to God and it's entirely his own conviction and not imposed on him by others, he ought to stick with it. Marriage is spiritually and morally right and not inferior to singleness in any way, although as I indicated earlier, because of the times we live in, I do have pastoral reasons for encouraging singleness.
1 Corinthians 7:36 (New Living Translation)
36 But if a man thinks that he’s treating his fiancée improperly and will inevitably give in to his passion, let him marry her as he wishes. It is not a sin.
iceniez
09-01-2010, 09:40 AM
Couple of explanations:
1 Corinthians 7:36 (The Message)
36-38If a man has a woman friend to whom he is loyal but never intended to marry, having decided to serve God as a "single," and then changes his mind, deciding he should marry her, he should go ahead and marry. It's no sin; it's not even a "step down" from celibacy, as some say. On the other hand, if a man is comfortable in his decision for a single life in service to God and it's entirely his own conviction and not imposed on him by others, he ought to stick with it. Marriage is spiritually and morally right and not inferior to singleness in any way, although as I indicated earlier, because of the times we live in, I do have pastoral reasons for encouraging singleness.
1 Corinthians 7:36 (New Living Translation)
36 But if a man thinks that he’s treating his fiancée improperly and will inevitably give in to his passion, let him marry her as he wishes. It is not a sin.
Good, an older saint told me that it meant that if a man and woman had premarital sex that they have not sinned as long as they marry .
allstate1
09-01-2010, 09:49 AM
Good, an older saint told me that it meant that if a man and woman had premarital sex that they have not sinned as long as they marry .
I have heard the same quite a lot. The reasoning behind my earlier post about young couples "forced" to marry if caught!
BeenThinkin
09-01-2010, 11:00 AM
What about the Texas law, "Common Law Marriage"? Does God accept the couple as married who chose to go the route of "Common Law Marriage?" Just wondering what others would think about this.
BT
Charnock
09-01-2010, 11:34 AM
Is this keeping you awake at night?
Yeah, so?
whoami
09-01-2010, 12:19 PM
I've heard of devout ulta-ultra-ultra conservative Christians who "marry" privately without government involvement. While I think this opens them up for loosing out on the legal benefits of marriage... is this something God recognizes?
I think the issue is simple. It's a sin, and sin has consequences. The guilt, shame, insecurity, and perhaps ultimate pain of heartache (not to mention Hell) are the results of this sin. Legal marriage is still a haven of safety.
Just courious... has everyone here waited until marriage? Just curious.
I have a lot of friends (mostly who follow Michael Pearl's teaching) who do the private 'covenant marriages'.
I did not wait till marriage. I lost my virginity to my UPCI Pastor's son as a teenager. lol
MissBrattified
09-01-2010, 12:21 PM
I have a lot of friends (mostly who follow Michael Pearl's teaching) who do the private 'covenant marriages'.
I've heard of that, but I consider it to be kind of a cop out to just get the big church wedding. If you need to get married THAT badly, then put on a nice suit and heels and go to the justice of the peace. Have a nice reception later instead of a big wedding. :)
I did not wait till marriage. I lost my virginity to my UPCI Pastor's son as a teenager. lol
Where you a UPCI church kid when that happened? :coffee2
berkeley
09-01-2010, 12:26 PM
I did not wait till marriage. I lost my virginity to my UPCI Pastor's son as a teenager. lol
You almost sound proud.
allstate1
09-01-2010, 12:35 PM
You almost sound proud.
Kinda rude!
berkeley
09-01-2010, 12:36 PM
Kinda rude!
She ended it with an LOL. That made it sound proud. She could have put a :( or a :pullhair
allstate1
09-01-2010, 12:40 PM
She ended it with an LOL. That made it sound proud. She could have put a :( or a :pullhair
And what if she were proud! I know countless girls who were trying to bed the popular preachers sons during campmeeting.
allstate1
09-01-2010, 12:41 PM
Nevermind I am not gonna argue with someone who thinks sex is spiritual!!!
berkeley
09-01-2010, 12:43 PM
And what if she were proud! I know countless girls who were trying to bed the popular preachers sons during campmeeting.
Oh. To be a preachers son. I wasn't so fortunate. Never had a church slut approach me. It's the sinner sluts that do all the time. And even at my weakest moments, I turn them away. They pass around like halloween candy down here. I'd like to remain free of S.T.I's.
MissBrattified
09-01-2010, 12:44 PM
And what if she were proud! I know countless girls who were trying to bed the popular preachers sons during campmeeting.
That's something to be proud of? :blink
berkeley
09-01-2010, 12:44 PM
Nevermind I am not gonna argue with someone who thinks sex is spiritual!!!
Haha. :ursofunny
berkeley
09-01-2010, 12:44 PM
That's something to be proud of? :blink
Apparently so..
JUST DO IT -NIKE
allstate1
09-01-2010, 12:49 PM
That's something to be proud of? :blink
YEP!! It was very competitive!!!
rgcraig
09-01-2010, 01:24 PM
Oh. To be a preachers son. I wasn't so fortunate. Never had a church slut approach me. It's the sinner sluts that do all the time. And even at my weakest moments, I turn them away. They pass around like halloween candy down here. I'd like to remain free of S.T.I's.Now, this sounds proud.
Charnock
09-01-2010, 01:31 PM
Craziness.
OnTheFritz
09-01-2010, 01:33 PM
Depressing thread.
Charnock
09-01-2010, 01:34 PM
Depressing thread.
Yep. I started it because I knew they would prove my point.
Mission accomplished.
OnTheFritz
09-01-2010, 01:37 PM
Yep. I started it because I knew they would prove my point.
Mission accomplished.
How so? Again, you have one or two out of many. Quit broadbrushing from way up there on your high horse ;)
allstate1
09-01-2010, 01:39 PM
Yep. I started it because I knew they would prove my point.
Mission accomplished.
here is a towel for your nose bleed!!!
rgcraig
09-01-2010, 01:41 PM
Yep. I started it because I knew they would prove my point.
Mission accomplished.
How so? Again, you have one or two out of many. Quit broadbrushing from way up there on your high horse ;)
here is a towel for your nose bleed!!!
You accomplished absolutely NOTHING.
Well, I take that back you did accomplish something - just not what you thought you were going to.
Charnock
09-01-2010, 01:42 PM
How so? Again, you have one or two out of many. Quit broadbrushing from way up there on your high horse ;)
It's hard being me.
http://stevejencks.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/highhorse.jpg?w=450&h=305
Charnock
09-01-2010, 01:43 PM
You accomplished absolutely NOTHING.
Well, I take that back you did accomplish something - just not what you thought you were going to.
You're just mad cause I brought more action to this forum than it's had in months. :neener
rgcraig
09-01-2010, 01:45 PM
You're just mad cause I brought more action to this forum than it's had in months. :neener
And why would that make me mad? You aren't even making sense~!!! :razz
allstate1
09-01-2010, 01:46 PM
You're just mad cause I brought more action to this forum than it's had in months. :neener
I dont know what to think of you!
rgcraig
09-01-2010, 01:50 PM
I think he's just trying to convince us that "he proved his point" because he knows he really didn't.
Charnock
09-01-2010, 01:52 PM
And why would that make me mad? You aren't even making sense~!!! :razz
Cause you are jealous of my superior posting skills.:razz
Charnock
09-01-2010, 01:52 PM
I think he's just trying to convince us that "he proved his point" because he knows he really didn't.
Did too.
allstate1
09-01-2010, 01:52 PM
I think he's just trying to convince us that "he proved his point" because he knows he really didn't.
What point was he proving?
rgcraig
09-01-2010, 01:52 PM
Cause you are jealous of my superior posting skills.:razz
Don't look now, but look at my post count and look at yours.
Oh wait, you might beat me if we added "them" all together - :neener
Charnock
09-01-2010, 01:54 PM
Don't look now, but look at my post count and look at yours.
Oh wait, you might beat me if we added "them" all together - :neener
I win in both quantity and QUALITY!!
I am man, HEAR ME ROAR!!!
rgcraig
09-01-2010, 01:54 PM
What point was he proving?
He came on the other night blasting AFF saying we are a bunch of heathens, etc.
So, he was hoping that everyone would agree that sex before marriage was okay and God approved.
Nope, notta, you were the only one that said it was a sin, but suggested you wouldn't buy shoes without trying them on or was it buy a car?
rgcraig
09-01-2010, 01:55 PM
I win in both quantity and QUALITY!!
I am man, HEAR ME ROAR!!!
I am woman, hear me let you think you are roaring.
Charnock
09-01-2010, 01:56 PM
I am woman, hear me let you think you are roaring.
This is what you are doing. :blah:blah:blah:blah:blah:blah:blah:blah:blah
This is what I want you to do. :bigbaby
:toofunny
rgcraig
09-01-2010, 01:58 PM
This is what you are doing. :blah:blah:blah:blah:blah:blah:blah:blah:blah
This is what I want you to do. :bigbaby
:toofunny
And this is what I'm going to do!
:annoymusic
allstate1
09-01-2010, 01:59 PM
He came on the other night blasting AFF saying we are a bunch of heathens, etc.
So, he was hoping that everyone would agree that sex before marriage was okay and God approved.
Nope, notta, you were the only one that said it was a sin, but suggested you wouldn't buy shoes without trying them on or was it buy a car?
I do believe it is a sin!!!!!! However I was tryin to make a point about "trying" out. Not everyone is compatible!
Charnock
09-01-2010, 01:59 PM
And this is what I'm going to do!
:annoymusic
What? Fiddle around? :ursofunny
allstate1
09-01-2010, 02:00 PM
What? Fiddle around? :ursofunny
Ok I am in the middle of a lovers quarrel! I am gone!
Don't look now, but look at my post count and look at yours.
Oh wait, you might beat me if we added "them" all together - :neener
Hey ... I'm still a top contender if we are going to total up posts.
Charnock
09-01-2010, 02:01 PM
Hey ... I'm still a top contender if we are going to total up posts.
Maybe, but only because of my superior ability to start interesting threads.
rgcraig
09-01-2010, 02:02 PM
Hey ... I'm still a top contender if we are going to total up posts.
That you are - - half of my posts are in the admin area talking about all you problem children!
That you are - - half of my posts are in the admin area talking about all you problem children!
I think I had close to 3500 in the first 6 weeks of the forum ... that's obscene.
I don't think I have that many yet during my second coronation.
Charnock
09-01-2010, 02:05 PM
I think I had close to 3500 in the first 6 weeks of the forum ... that's obscene.
I don't think I have that many yet during my second coronation.
It's because I've not been around this time.
allstate1
09-01-2010, 02:07 PM
It's because I've not been around this time.
your ego makes me gag!
Maybe, but only because of my superior ability to start interesting threads.
Charnock, clearly you are among the very best at thread starting! I am an utter failure at starting threads. however, if you keep up your current streak, I will bust thru the 14K posts mark very soon! LOL
your ego makes me gag!
He does have an obscenely big head ... agreed.
Charnock, clearly you are among the very best at thread starting! I am an utter failure at starting threads. however, if you keep up your current streak, I will bust thru the 14K posts mark very soon! LOL
Just 14k ... a pittance.
MissBrattified
09-01-2010, 02:13 PM
I do believe it is a sin!!!!!! However I was tryin to make a point about "trying" out. Not everyone is compatible!
I don't really get your posts. Maybe someone else can clue me in. Test driving a future spouse is NOT an option for a Christian. Therefore, any "incompatibility" after marriage is irrelevant as far as whether or not the relationship should remain intact.
When you get married, you have to work at BEING compatible with your spouse. It doesn't magically happen. Making things work out...*ahem*...happily for everyone takes effort and a lack of selfishness, among other things.
IMO, "incompatibility" is often code for "I'm too selfish and lazy to do what it takes to make this a good relationship." :coffee2
Charnock
09-01-2010, 02:15 PM
your ego makes me gag!
Good, I was looking for something to do the trick. :spit
allstate1
09-01-2010, 02:19 PM
I don't really get your posts. Maybe someone else can clue me in. Test driving a future spouse is NOT an option for a Christian. Therefore, any "incompatibility" after marriage is irrelevant as far as whether or not the relationship should remain intact.
When you get married, you have to work at BEING compatible with your spouse. It doesn't magically happen. Making things work out...*ahem*...happily for everyone takes effort and a lack of selfishness, among other things.
IMO, "incompatibility" is often code for "I'm too selfish and lazy to do what it takes to make this a good relationship." :coffee2
The term 'trying out" is actually not a good one for the point I am on. I dont mean the actuall act of "driving" the car but you will at the very least have a discussion with the salesperson concerning the feature, benefits options etc....!!! Before you buy!!!! How would you have felt if your first Christmas gift from the new hubby was whips and chains??
rgcraig
09-01-2010, 02:24 PM
The term 'trying out" is actually not a good one for the point I am on. I dont mean the actuall act of "driving" the car but you will at the very least have a discussion with the salesperson concerning the feature, benefits options etc....!!! Before you buy!!!! How would you have felt if your first Christmas gift from the new hubby was whips and chains??
Oh, don't ask her that.......:toofunny
whoami
09-01-2010, 02:26 PM
She ended it with an LOL. That made it sound proud. She could have put a :( or a :pullhair
Dewd! I'm not proud of it, I just thought it was kinda funny that some people assume that getting married young means that you were waiting. I'm not proud of it, but I've had a long time to get over the "hanging my head in shame" that came along with it. :razz
whoami
09-01-2010, 02:33 PM
I've heard of that, but I consider it to be kind of a cop out to just get the big church wedding. If you need to get married THAT badly, then put on a nice suit and heels and go to the justice of the peace. Have a nice reception later instead of a big wedding. :)
Where you a UPCI church kid when that happened? :coffee2
It could be a cop out, I dunno. I prefer a legal marriage license.
And yes, I was 15. Raised UPCI.
BTW Berkley - I do believe sex before marriage is a sin. It's a sin I've committed and believe I've been forgiven for.
Just 14k ... a pittance.
I am down to 20 or so posts per week of late... although Charnock has caused a spike....
whoami
09-01-2010, 02:36 PM
Kinda rude!
Yes, very. And this:
Oh. To be a preachers son. I wasn't so fortunate. Never had a church slut approach me. It's the sinner sluts that do all the time. And even at my weakest moments, I turn them away. They pass around like halloween candy down here. I'd like to remain free of S.T.I's.
was even more rude.
Liberal
09-01-2010, 02:40 PM
Dewd! I'm not proud of it, I just thought it was kinda funny that some people assume that getting married young means that you were waiting. I'm not proud of it, but I've had a long time to get over the "hanging my head in shame" that came along with it. :razz
For what it's worth, I didn't get the impression that you were proud of it. But I think it makes people feel better, especially the people here trying to prove that everyone's a wretched sinner, to assume that everyone is sinful and proud of it. You're ok.
allstate1
09-01-2010, 02:42 PM
Yes, very. And this:
was even more rude.
You know how it is?!? Make the same mistake a couple times and you are a slut wth various STD's!!!
MissBrattified
09-01-2010, 03:00 PM
Oh, don't ask her that.......:toofunny
:D :toofunny
whoami
09-01-2010, 03:03 PM
For what it's worth, I didn't get the impression that you were proud of it. But I think it makes people feel better, especially the people here trying to prove that everyone's a wretched sinner, to assume that everyone is sinful and proud of it. You're ok.
Thanks. :)
rgcraig
09-01-2010, 03:07 PM
:D :toofunny
LOL....thank goodness PO isn't here today.
rgcraig
09-01-2010, 03:08 PM
Thanks. :)
I didn't either.
I knew exactly what you were conveying.
berkeley
09-02-2010, 10:25 AM
Oh. To be a preachers son. I wasn't so fortunate. Never had a church slut approach me. It's the sinner sluts that do all the time. And even at my weakest moments, I turn them away. They pass around like halloween candy down here. I'd like to remain free of S.T.I's.
Now, this sounds proud.
Oh, I thought it sounded "saved." My bad.
allstate1
09-02-2010, 11:09 AM
Oh, I thought it sounded "saved." My bad.
Just so you know, saved is being forgiven of sins not to have never sinned!
berkeley
09-02-2010, 11:16 AM
Just so you know, saved is being forgiven of sins not to have never sinned!
Thank you, genius.
allstate1
09-02-2010, 11:38 AM
Thank you, genius.
You may have turned away the sluts but you are in dire need of an attitude adjustment!!!
berkeley
09-02-2010, 11:58 AM
You may have turned away the sluts but you are in dire need of an attitude adjustment!!!
From the guy who said to test drive the car...
allstate1
09-02-2010, 01:26 PM
From the guy who said to test drive the car...
This was thrown out as a popular theory! You are the one on here with a pompous attitude!
Jermyn Davidson
09-02-2010, 05:15 PM
Good, an older saint told me that it meant that if a man and woman had premarital sex that they have not sinned as long as they marry .
I know people who hold this opinion today-- some even are Christians.
For the record, I do not hold this view.
iceniez
09-03-2010, 03:46 AM
I have seen it happen more than just a few times! I do believe it is a sin! The UPC and other conservative orgs. need to have educated counceling for these people and not some beatem down preacher!! Pastors should be required to have several hours of councel education including family,addictions,and grief.
Awesome Idea.
iceniez
09-03-2010, 03:57 AM
I know people who hold this opinion today-- some even are Christians.
For the record, I do not hold this view.
Neither do I , although I am not proud of my past before I came to Jesus. I cannot justify my past sins to ease my conscience, I have to agree with the Word. Repent and then be justified by Jesus , and his sacrifice.
pastorrick1959
09-03-2010, 04:50 AM
i love this forum everyone is so friendly.. lol... sex before marriage is a sin ,i feel ...when your young ,your hormones are screaming at you ,, so for those who abstain , they can rejoice in knowing they did ,what was moral and respectfull to one another!
Walks_in_islam
09-03-2010, 05:14 AM
Pastorrick - always sharing wisdom of which you teach and of which the bible does not. Such as current version of tithing etc etc.
Pray tell - what does the bible specifically teach of the sex life of those who God declared as righteous? Do start with Ibrihim (Abraham) and his children then move to Daud (David) etc etc.
Remember to use God's words and stories from God's book and do your best to keep in mind that your words that conflict with God's book are tiresome.
i love this forum everyone is so friendly.. lol... sex before marriage is a sin ,i feel ...when your young ,your hormones are screaming at you ,, so for those who abstain , they can rejoice in knowing they did ,what was moral and respectfull to one another!
Walks_in_islam
09-03-2010, 11:35 AM
After you think and come back please share what God and the Bible teach about sex and marriage - THEN explain how those who were referred to by God as righteous did not necessarily follow what pastorrick or the modern church refers to as righteous - THEN explain what the Bible says about ministers who teach something other than what the Bible teaches in the name of teaching the word of God.
Pastorrick - always sharing wisdom of which you teach and of which the bible does not. Such as current version of tithing etc etc.
Pray tell - what does the bible specifically teach of the sex life of those who God declared as righteous? Do start with Ibrihim (Abraham) and his children then move to Daud (David) etc etc.
Remember to use God's words and stories from God's book and do your best to keep in mind that your words that conflict with God's book are tiresome.
berkeley
09-03-2010, 11:49 AM
This was thrown out as a popular theory! You are the one on here with a pompous attitude!
I can't determine that the woman sounded proud... but you can determine that I have a pompous attitude. :ursofunny
...like they say, why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free!
rgcraig
09-03-2010, 12:15 PM
I can't determine that the woman sounded proud... but you can determine that I have a pompous attitude. :ursofunny
...like they say, why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free!
So, we can assume from that statement that you think sex before marriage is okay.
berkeley
09-03-2010, 12:26 PM
Oh. To be a preachers son. I wasn't so fortunate. Never had a church slut approach me. It's the sinner sluts that do all the time. And even at my weakest moments, I turn them away. They pass around like halloween candy down here. I'd like to remain free of S.T.I's.
I can't determine that the woman sounded proud... but you can determine that I have a pompous attitude. :ursofunny
...like they say, why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free!
So, we can assume from that statement that you think sex before marriage is okay.
No. Note the sarcasm. If I thought it was okay, I would have my share of the halloween candy.
allstate1
09-03-2010, 12:39 PM
No. Note the sarcasm. If I thought it was okay, I would have my share of the halloween candy.
And how do we know you dont/didnt??
Aquila
09-03-2010, 12:55 PM
What would be the modern equivalent of a concubine?
allstate1
09-03-2010, 01:01 PM
What would be the modern equivalent of a concubine?
my ex-wife ooo wait..... nevermind!
Aquila
09-03-2010, 01:08 PM
lol
pastorrick1959
09-03-2010, 01:09 PM
Pastorrick - always sharing wisdom of which you teach and of which the bible does not. Such as current version of tithing etc etc.
Pray tell - what does the bible specifically teach of the sex life of those who God declared as righteous? Do start with Ibrihim (Abraham) and his children then move to Daud (David) etc etc.
Remember to use God's words and stories from God's book and do your best to keep in mind that your words that conflict with God's book are tiresome.
SO MR OR MRS WALKS LOL WHICHEVER. you think that sex before marriage is ok? and oh yes i believe in tithing for sure , so does the bible and god honors it and blesses it i am living proof.
fornication if you remeber the bible speaks of it ,,,if sex bewteen 2 unmarried folks ,, so if it speaks against that , it just could be we shouldnt do that ,, now i aint very smart as you have been so mindful of to show me the err of my ways lol. so maybe i am just looking at it wrong..
Aquila
09-03-2010, 01:17 PM
SO MR OR MRS WALKS LOL WHICHEVER. you think that sex before marriage is ok?
Just relax and ask Walks what his views are (I assume walks is a dude). lol
i believe in tithing for sure ,
True. And it's good that you stick to your convictions.
so does the bible
Opinion based on your interpretation.
and god honors it and blesses it i am living proof.
God honors sacrificial giving out of a cheerful heart, rather it be 10%, 5%, or just $15 every Sunday. If it's a sacrifice to give... God will bless in relation to the sacrifice. If %15 was all one had and they gave it... they gave more than your 10%, if you had anything to spare.
God blesses according to one's disposition of heart and the degree of sacrifice. I'm living proof.
fornication if you remeber the bible speaks of it ,,,if sex bewteen 2 unmarried folks ,, so if it speaks against that , it just could be we shouldnt do that ,, now i aint very smart as you have been so mindful of to show me the err of my ways lol. so maybe i am just looking at it wrong..
I'm much rather find out what Walks really believes before attacking him.
Walks, please explain in greater detail what you're thoughts are.
Thanks,
coadie
09-03-2010, 01:19 PM
SO MR OR MRS WALKS LOL WHICHEVER. you think that sex before marriage is ok? and oh yes i believe in tithing for sure , so does the bible and god honors it and blesses it i am living proof.
fornication if you remeber the bible speaks of it ,,,if sex bewteen 2 unmarried folks ,, so if it speaks against that , it just could be we shouldnt do that ,, now i aint very smart as you have been so mindful of to show me the err of my ways lol. so maybe i am just looking at it wrong..
The modern consider a monogamous relationship whether gay or unmarrid as fine. It is the committed part they use to justify it.
Truthseeker
09-03-2010, 01:40 PM
Just for you wild bed folks:http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/09/03/how-christians-spoil-sex/?hpt=C2
rgcraig
09-03-2010, 01:44 PM
Just for you wild bed folks:http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/09/03/how-christians-spoil-sex/?hpt=C2
Great article - - couldn't agree more!
Aquila
09-03-2010, 01:49 PM
I know of an interesting situation relating to this topic.
A preacher’s wife left him and soon after he backslid into the world for about two years. While backslidden he met a woman who was also divorced. They both have children from their previous marriages. They had been living together for about three years and he began feeling God telling him to come back to church. They both came to church and she was baptized and filled with the Holy Ghost. It is apparent that he still has a “call of God” on his life. God appears to be doing wonderful things in their lives. The only problem is that they are living together. I’m not sure if they’ve been talking about getting married. Seeing that they are both progressively consecrating their lives to the Lord I wouldn’t be surprised if they were or will be soon.
Here’s what I found strange. The church has accepted both of them with open arms. No real issue is made about them living together. I’ve heard him being encouraged with things like, “God isn’t finished with you brother. You’re anointed.” Of course, he’s not in leadership or anything. But it seems like they are opening up to him becoming leadership at some point. What is interesting is that the church isn’t demanding that they separate. It seems to be accepting the current situation and encouraging greater involvement.
So, here are my questions…
Is this church doing the right thing?
If so why is it the right thing?
How should I receive him? I mean he’s very gifted and I still feel like he’s meant for ministry, I just feel a little uncomfortable around him. Maybe it’s because I’m worried that if I’m too cozy with him people might think badly of me. I’m also not happy about them living together.
If the church isn’t doing the right thing, what should it be doing with them?
(I’m sure there will be varied opinions so all please share)
Walks_in_islam
09-03-2010, 02:55 PM
Do I believe that sex before what? is OK? What constitutes a marriage? A preacher? A minister? A piece of paper? It does not matter what I believe nor do I profess to declare what is or is not a "sin" before I examine what was declared in words to be sin and what the prophets did or did not do that was or was not declared to specifically be sin.
You were specifically challenged to go into the book and bring to light the actions of those declared righteous in the Bible and compare the real actions and what happened in their lives related to sex to what you teach.
What defines a marriage in your teaching and what defines a marriage in your bible? What was sexually lawful and unlawful in the bible? Sticking who we recognize as prophets/messengers of God:
Lawful or unlawful? Jacob's wife Rachel?
Lawful or unlawful? Rachel's handmaid? Leah's handmaid?
Lawful or unlawful? Abraham's second wife Katura? Wasn't he already married?
Lawful or unlawful? David's wives Ahinoam, Abigail, Maachah, Haggith, Abital, Eglah, Bathshua, and another identified as Merab? David's only specific identified sin was taking another man's wife
Lawful or unlawful? Solomon's 700 wives? He might have been wise but he wasn't very smart
Lawful or unlawful? Moses' wives Tharbus and Zipporah?
Those declared righteous took lawful mates to themselves and in the act of taking them and forming unions with them they became wives to them. In the Bible sex itself between two lawful individuals commits the couple to one another.
So what was sin? Specifically declared to be a mate of one being sexually involved with a mate of another. Being intimate in any way with the mate of another.
Marriage until around 110 AD was a private matter where a man and women joined together and formed a household. As per the Bible. BUT:
[I]t becomes both men and women who marry, to form their union with the approval of the bishop, that their marriage may be according to God, and not after their own lust Changed all that in 110 AD.
NOTE: It is dangerous to replace what is the rights of approval by God with the approval of a Bishop or any other form of religious leadership
Nowhere in the Bible does it say that if a committed man and woman join together with intention to form a family and union they sin. The act of sex consummates their commitment and binds them to one another. The "marriage ceremony" is not biblical nor does it have biblical basis. So, in summary, sex between two committed individuals who are consummating their commitment is not identified as a sin in the bible.
Neither is drinking wine at the wedding party LOL thats another discussion
Specifically identified as a sin:
Sex with someone other than your spouse is a sin
Sex outside of the intention to form a committed union is a sin
Thanks for asking :) We should go to tithing next
SO MR OR MRS WALKS LOL WHICHEVER. you think that sex before marriage is ok? and oh yes i believe in tithing for sure , so does the bible and god honors it and blesses it i am living proof.
fornication if you remeber the bible speaks of it ,,,if sex bewteen 2 unmarried folks ,, so if it speaks against that , it just could be we shouldnt do that ,, now i aint very smart as you have been so mindful of to show me the err of my ways lol. so maybe i am just looking at it wrong..
Walks_in_islam
09-03-2010, 02:56 PM
An interesting case. See comments above
Regards,
wii
I know of an interesting situation relating to this topic.
A preacher’s wife left him and soon after he backslid into the world for about two years. While backslidden he met a woman who was also divorced. They both have children from their previous marriages. They had been living together for about three years and he began feeling God telling him to come back to church. They both came to church and she was baptized and filled with the Holy Ghost. It is apparent that he still has a “call of God” on his life. God appears to be doing wonderful things in their lives. The only problem is that they are living together. I’m not sure if they’ve been talking about getting married. Seeing that they are both progressively consecrating their lives to the Lord I wouldn’t be surprised if they were or will be soon.
Here’s what I found strange. The church has accepted both of them with open arms. No real issue is made about them living together. I’ve heard him being encouraged with things like, “God isn’t finished with you brother. You’re anointed.” Of course, he’s not in leadership or anything. But it seems like they are opening up to him becoming leadership at some point. What is interesting is that the church isn’t demanding that they separate. It seems to be accepting the current situation and encouraging greater involvement.
So, here are my questions…
Is this church doing the right thing?
If so why is it the right thing?
How should I receive him? I mean he’s very gifted and I still feel like he’s meant for ministry, I just feel a little uncomfortable around him. Maybe it’s because I’m worried that if I’m too cozy with him people might think badly of me. I’m also not happy about them living together.
If the church isn’t doing the right thing, what should it be doing with them?
(I’m sure there will be varied opinions so all please share)
Truthseeker
09-03-2010, 06:17 PM
Great article - - couldn't agree more!
Heathen!!!
Truthseeker
09-03-2010, 06:19 PM
I know of an interesting situation relating to this topic.
A preacher’s wife left him and soon after he backslid into the world for about two years. While backslidden he met a woman who was also divorced. They both have children from their previous marriages. They had been living together for about three years and he began feeling God telling him to come back to church. They both came to church and she was baptized and filled with the Holy Ghost. It is apparent that he still has a “call of God” on his life. God appears to be doing wonderful things in their lives. The only problem is that they are living together. I’m not sure if they’ve been talking about getting married. Seeing that they are both progressively consecrating their lives to the Lord I wouldn’t be surprised if they were or will be soon.
Here’s what I found strange. The church has accepted both of them with open arms. No real issue is made about them living together. I’ve heard him being encouraged with things like, “God isn’t finished with you brother. You’re anointed.” Of course, he’s not in leadership or anything. But it seems like they are opening up to him becoming leadership at some point. What is interesting is that the church isn’t demanding that they separate. It seems to be accepting the current situation and encouraging greater involvement.
So, here are my questions…
Is this church doing the right thing?
If so why is it the right thing?
How should I receive him? I mean he’s very gifted and I still feel like he’s meant for ministry, I just feel a little uncomfortable around him. Maybe it’s because I’m worried that if I’m too cozy with him people might think badly of me. I’m also not happy about them living together.
If the church isn’t doing the right thing, what should it be doing with them?
(I’m sure there will be varied opinions so all please share)
They should get it right, if refuse disfellowship.
Fornicaters should be disfellowshipped not encouraged.
Michael Phelps
09-04-2010, 08:07 AM
Just for you wild bed folks:http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/09/03/how-christians-spoil-sex/?hpt=C2
He has some great points in this article.
Truthseeker
09-04-2010, 09:51 AM
I think it can go to extremes in eirther direction. Some are as loose goose carnal with everything goes then some are puritans, that it's not for enjoyment.
Have a heart to keep the married bed pure and I believe we will be led to the right things.
rgcraig
09-04-2010, 03:20 PM
I think it can go to extremes in eirther direction. Some are as loose goose carnal with everything goes then some are puritans, that it's not for enjoyment.
Have a heart to keep the married bed pure and I believe we will be led to the right things.
Why would you consider someone being "loose goose carnal with everything" if they are married?
Keeping the marriage bed pure has nothing to do with the married couple - - - it means to keep "others" out of the marraige bed.
Truthseeker
09-04-2010, 04:08 PM
Keeping the marriage bed pure has nothing to do with the married couple - - - it means to keep "others" out of the marraige bed.
How do you come to that conclusion?
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