"Holiness" goes Mainstream in USA

[Hoovie]

"signs at the village’s entrance – in both English and Spanish – asking outsiders to cover their legs and arms, use appropriate language and maintain gender separation in public.
“It’s a way of respect,” said one resident."

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/08/31/welcome-to-kiryas-joel-please-dress-accordingly/

[Digging4Truth]

This type of thing makes me wonder how long it will be before a bunch of people parade through town with as little on as possible just to make a statement and spread the message of near nekkidness.

[geekette]

"signs at the village’s entrance – in both English and Spanish – asking outsiders to cover their legs and arms, use appropriate language and maintain gender separation in public.
“It’s a way of respect,” said one resident."

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/08/31/welcome-to-kiryas-joel-please-dress-accordingly/

I have a problem with this. It's not the government's job to tell me what sort of dress code I should be adhering to. I am *particularly* against people of a particular sect telling me how I should dress when I visit the public streets of their town. Suppose this was a Muslim town and all women were told to wear burqas? I bet that would go over real well.

Just to state my bias: I'm an ardent believer in separation of church and state, and the people who control Kiryas Joel have been trying to blur the line for decades. The Supreme Court held in 1994 that funding a school district that was specifically set up to the boundaries of a religious neighborhood was an unconstitutional aid to religion (Board of Education of Kiryas Joel Village School District v. Grumet). There have been other cases on other subjects.

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According to the ACLU, the signs pass constitutional muster because they were put up by a private organization and there is no sanction for not adhering to the stated dress code. However, if the town council had put up the signs, that would be a different story.

[Digging4Truth]

I have a problem with this. It's not the government's job to tell me what sort of dress code I should be adhering to. I am *particularly* against people of a particular sect telling me how I should dress when I visit the public streets of their town. Suppose this was a Muslim town and all women were told to wear burqas? I bet that would go over real well.

Just to state my bias: I'm an ardent believer in separation of church and state, and the people who control Kiryas Joel have been trying to blur the line for decades. The Supreme Court held in 1994 that funding a school district that was specifically set up to the boundaries of a religious neighborhood was an unconstitutional aid to religion (Board of Education of Kiryas Joel Village School District v. Grumet). There have been other cases on other subjects.

-----
According to the ACLU, the signs pass constitutional muster because they were put up by a private organization and there is no sanction for not adhering to the stated dress code. However, if the town council had put up the signs, that would be a different story.

Right... this isn't government... this is just regular folks and they offer nor plan any consequences. That makes it a suggestion/request by citizens. No problems there.

[Twisp]

This type of thing makes me wonder how long it will be before a bunch of people parade through town with as little on as possible just to make a statement and spread the message of near nekkidness.

Yeah, that is probably going to happen pretty soon. And believe me, I DON'T want to be there when that happens. And I DON'T want anyone to take pictures of it. And I DEFINITELY DO NOT want anyone to send me said pictures of it. And for the love of everything that is holy, I DO NOT WANT said sender to take out all of the pictures of people that are of my size and build and gender and just leave in the good ones.

[allstate1]

I wish people would learn the difference between holiness and modesty!!!!!

[Digging4Truth]

I wish people would learn the difference between holiness and modesty!!!!!

This is a true statement.

But... does this denote that you have a problem with the sign?

[TGBTG]

I wish people would learn the difference between holiness and modesty!!!!!

You can say that again!!!

[allstate1]

This is a true statement.

But... does this denote that you have a problem with the sign?

Yes and No! I am not familiar enough with the story. Does an outsider HAVE to go into this area?? Or do you go just as a tourist or something??

[whoami]

"signs at the village’s entrance – in both English and Spanish – asking outsiders to cover their legs and arms, use appropriate language and maintain gender separation in public.
“It’s a way of respect,” said one resident."

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/08/31/welcome-to-kiryas-joel-please-dress-accordingly/

I don't have a problem with the sign, people are free to say and request what they want and there's no "consequences" for non-compliance. The glares that are reported for women who don't comply are pretty rude though.

[coadie]

I have a problem with this. It's not the government's job to tell me what sort of dress code I should be adhering to. I am *particularly* against people of a particular sect telling me how I should dress when I visit the public streets of their town. Suppose this was a Muslim town and all women were told to wear burqas? I bet that would go over real well.

Just to state my bias: I'm an ardent believer in separation of church and state, and the people who control Kiryas Joel have been trying to blur the line for decades. The Supreme Court held in 1994 that funding a school district that was specifically set up to the boundaries of a religious neighborhood was an unconstitutional aid to religion (Board of Education of Kiryas Joel Village School District v. Grumet). There have been other cases on other subjects.

-----
According to the ACLU, the signs pass constitutional muster because they were put up by a private organization and there is no sanction for not adhering to the stated dress code. However, if the town council had put up the signs, that would be a different story.

You are wrong. The gubment requires food handlers to wear gloves and hairnets. That is separation. welders must wear gloves, helmets and eye protection. Tell us what to wear. Courts don't allow halter tops, undershirts, and sandals. We can write pages of rules and laws for what people wear.
If the law says certain pilots can't wear glasses, if you need them and must wear them, they can not let you fly.

Now that you are clear that there can be enforcible laws, have anything else?

[coadie]

"signs at the village’s entrance – in both English and Spanish – asking outsiders to cover their legs and arms, use appropriate language and maintain gender separation in public.
“It’s a way of respect,” said one resident."

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/08/31/welcome-to-kiryas-joel-please-dress-accordingly/

These Jews have a right to have their opinion. I have a lot of Jewish friends. The amnish also have rights and viewpoints. Rarely do I see someone mocking an Amish that actually understands what they think and why they do what they do. I was in an Amish community last weekend and saw tractors and for the first time didn't notice any had cabs and a/c.

[Michael]

If people don't like it, just don't go to that community....:grumpy

[Twisp]

Really, it is a non-issue. They aren't going to enforce it, so you are not required to abide by it. It is just going to be another sign up on the side of the road.

[whoami]

Really, it is a non-issue. They aren't going to enforce it, so you are not required to abide by it. It is just going to be another sign up on the side of the road.

Totally agree. I mean, one of my husband's friends has a sign on his driveway that says "No ladies wearing pants, skirts, or shorts allowed on property - remove them before entering!" but no one abides by it. LOL!!!

[Brad Murphy]

This is ridiculous... but blue laws are ridiculous as well. I remember stopping in a Wal-Mart in South Carolina on a Sunday two or three years ago and the entire store was roped off (I think everything but the food items).

Frankly, I was offended that I could not buy anything and will make every effort to not end up even driving through that town or county or whatever it was again. I can't imagine what you have to do if you have a flat tire or something in that backwards place on a Sunday.

[whoami]

This is ridiculous... but blue laws are ridiculous as well. I remember stopping in a Wal-Mart in South Carolina on a Sunday two or three years ago and the entire store was roped off (I think everything but the food items).

Frankly, I was offended that I could not buy anything and will make every effort to not end up even driving through that town or county or whatever it was again. I can't imagine what you have to do if you have a flat tire or something in that backwards place on a Sunday.

I've never heard of such a thing - blue laws? Gonna have to look that up.

[Brad Murphy]

I've never heard of such a thing - blue laws? Gonna have to look that up.

Looks like the county finally repealed it, here is an article about them repealing it... http://www.foxcarolina.com/news/21234290/detail.html

Also, here is some general information on Blue Laws... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_law

[allstate1]

Looks like the county finally repealed it, here is an article about them repealing it... http://www.foxcarolina.com/news/21234290/detail.html

Also, here is some general information on Blue Laws... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_law

Blue laws can be a trip! There is one still on the books her that says you cant tie an elephant to a hitching post!

[Brad Murphy]

Blue laws can be a trip! There is one still on the books her that says you cant tie an elephant to a hitching post!

Blue Laws usually have a religious origin (not sure what happened to the Separation of church and state there. lol)... it would be interesting to know the story behind the elephant and the hitching post!

[whoami]

Blue Laws for my state:

Missouri

* The sale of alcohol is prohibited from 3:00 a.m. to 6:00 a.m. Monday through Saturday.[23] Alcohol sales on Sunday are allowed from 9:00 a.m. to midnight subject to an additional liquor license fee.[24]
* Car sales are prohibited on Sundays.



Hilarious!!! I knew about the alcohol sales time limits, there are always news stories about violence in bars over daylight savings time when sales stop an hour early for the time change.

[commonsense]

Many moons ago when living in Southern IL, if you went to the local mall nearly half the cars were from MO since their malls were closed due to some sort of blue laws.

[commonsense]

This was also part of living in ND many long years ago. Malls and other shopping centers were closed or had very limited hours.

Look at any national sales flyer for dept stores that cover the whole country. You will see the Sun hours as 9 to 6 for example but there will be a disclaimer ....except for ND, hours 12-6.

There are a few areas that the blue laws are still alive and well...:neener

[Hoovie]

I wish people would learn the difference between holiness and modesty!!!!!

Think that might be why the thread starter placed quotes around Holiness??
:ursofunny

[ILG]

I won't be visiting. ;)

[geekette]

I've never heard of such a thing - blue laws? Gonna have to look that up.

LOL!

Blue laws--the bane of Texas when I lived there as a teenager and young adult. It was weird how different aisles of the grocery stores would be roped off. Target, Walmart, KMart, etc., they were just closed.

Blue laws finally ended up being repealed about 1987 after a Christmas season where national retailers decided to risk staying open on the Sundays between Thanksgiving and Christmas to make an extra buck. They made loads of money (I know I was one of the "tourists" who checked out the novelty of shopping at a Target on a Sunday) and the state saw the handwriting on the wall.

[Sam]

I've never heard of such a thing - blue laws? Gonna have to look that up.

Blue laws are considered to be laws that are still on the books but are not in tune with the times so are usually overlooked. In the city of Cincinnati I remember when there was a law against retail sales on Sunday. This was enacted years ago but generally disregarded although it could be enforced if law enforcement agents wanted to. I don't know if this was overturned later or if everyone just agreed to ignore it.

Actually, the AS of the UPC is like a blue law. It is still on the books so it can be enforced if local enforcement agents decide to but it is generally just overlooked and ignored in real life in many areas. And like the blue laws that still remain on the books as civil laws that are usually not discussed because we are kind of ashamed of them, the AS is treated that way in some places.