Salvation Message

[houstonupci]

Looking for some opinions...

How often should a pastor preach the Salvation message?
My thoughts are that no visitor should ever leave without understanding that they must:

1) Repent
2) Be baptized
3) Receive the Holy Ghost (with speaking in tongues as evidence).

What would you do if you felt your pastor did not preach the salvation message as often as you would like?

[Sam]

Looking for some opinions...

How often should a pastor preach the Salvation message?
My thoughts are that no visitor should ever leave without understanding that they must:

1) Repent
2) Be baptized
3) Receive the Holy Ghost (with speaking in tongues as evidence).

What would you do if you felt your pastor did not preach the salvation message as often as you would like?

If we really believe the message of the way the Bible is divided into sections called Gospels, Acts, and Epistles, would we ever preach the salvation message unless everyone there was not saved? Would it be OK to preach the salvation message if the church was full of saved people?

[Mr. Smith]

Looking for some opinions...

How often should a pastor preach the Salvation message?
My thoughts are that no visitor should ever leave without understanding that they must:

1) Repent
2) Be baptized
3) Receive the Holy Ghost (with speaking in tongues as evidence).

What would you do if you felt your pastor did not preach the salvation message as often as you would like?

1) My thoughts are that I'd hate to have to hear you preach!
2) The three things you listed isn't the message of salvation!

[Jack Shephard]

1) My thoughts are that I'd hate to have to hear you preach!
2) The three things you listed isn't the message of salvation!

Isn't easier to get saved in this movement than to stay saved?

[berkeley]

poor guy. he thinks this is an apostolic forum.

[Mr. Smith]

poor guy. he thinks this is an apostolic forum.


:lol

[seekerman]

poor guy. he thinks this is an apostolic forum.

Some believe that the religious sect of oneness Pentecostalism which began in 1913 is the true Apostolic church too.

[Sherri]

At some point in every Sunday morning service, we give sinners a chance to repent. But we don't preach Acts 2:38 every week. The first step is getting them saved, and then we give them information about baptism and the Holy Ghost.

[DAII]

poor guy. he thinks this is an apostolic forum.

Very much an Apostolic forum, Berk.

You and I know that many at the merger, like Goss, Gurley, Stairs, et al believed those 3 "steps" were not done IN ORDER TO BE SAVED but rather a biblical standard of what a saved person follows... while firmly believing we are regenerated at the point of faith/belief/repentance.

Sherri believes in those 3 steps, for example, in the PCI APOSTOLIC fashion.

[DAII]

We are to preach Christ and him crucified ... the message of the Gospel, the good news of HIS DEATH, BURIAL AND RESURRECTION, is evident in all of the paraphrased messages/sermons in the historical narrative of Acts ...

Folks need to come through our doors knowing Jesus Christ is the WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE.

I would be disappointed if a message of HOPE and SALVATION in Christ was not preached.

That saved believers were initially and subsequently baptized and are given the gift of the Holy Ghost (eternal life) is believed by an overwhelming majority of Christians.

I am yet to meet a Christian who doesn't believe Acts 2:38.

[DAII]

Isn't easier to get saved in this movement than to stay saved?

Yes, Pastor Brett Jones hit on this in his message on Sunday ...

In the movement we were a part of ... you were saved on Sunday ... lost on Monday and Tuesday ... saved again on Wednesday ... lost until Sunday again.

It is a message of constant guilt and condemnation where God is looking to condemn rather than save ....

His text and message was centered around God always devising a means to save ... namely in His Son, Jesus Christ ...even when there's no hope and the water seems spilt on the ground ....

For we must needs die, and are as water spilt on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again; neither doth God respect any person: yet doth he devise means, that his banished be not expelled from him. 2 Samuel 14:14

Jesus is the plan of SALVATION.

[misspresley]

If it had not been for Calvary, we would all be lost! The blood of Jesus covers my sins. To be baptized is an act of obedience to a command. The Holy Ghost is a precious gift. It's really not up to me to decide at what point salvation is received. But it is up to me to be obedient and live in all the truth revealed to me.

I think some make it harder to be saved than it is.

[POWERUP]

At some point in every Sunday morning service, we give sinners a chance to repent. But we don't preach Acts 2:38 every week. The first step is getting them saved, and then we give them information about baptism and the Holy Ghost.

Us likewise....................

[TGBTG]

Looking for some opinions...

How often should a pastor preach the Salvation message?
My thoughts are that no visitor should ever leave without understanding that they must:

1) Repent
2) Be baptized
3) Receive the Holy Ghost (with speaking in tongues as evidence).

What would you do if you felt your pastor did not preach the salvation message as often as you would like?

Let the Pastor preach as led by the Holy Ghost. Most sermons (I believe) can lead to a call for sinners to repent and have saving faith in Jesus Christ.
Paul said in Acts 20:21 "Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ."

You can always do baptism later. Remember that not all churches have baptismal tanks/baths. The church might have to schedule a day to use a nearby river to do baptism. In such case, the pastor might talk about baptism, but obviously not gonna be able to conduct baptisms that day.

[berkeley]

my comment was tic. no need for the history lesson, lol. my pastor is 3 stepper. but you'd think he's a one stepper. he preaches Christ, and Him crucified every service. recently he has been going on about the 3 steps... in passing, it is never the focal point. the assistant pastor is a one stepper.

[Aquila]

Looking for some opinions...

How often should a pastor preach the Salvation message?
My thoughts are that no visitor should ever leave without understanding that they must:

1) Repent
2) Be baptized
3) Receive the Holy Ghost (with speaking in tongues as evidence).

What would you do if you felt your pastor did not preach the salvation message as often as you would like?

For the most part I agree with you. However, I see the Pastor as the "teacher" and "mentor" of the body. It's the body's job to present the Gospel to the Lost and bring them into the church for education regarding the things of God. I look at the spiritual landscape of America... could it be that the "church" is leaving the Salvation message in the hands of those who see as ministers instead of taking it to the ends of the earth on our jobs, when shopping, at the barber shop, beauty salon, pet store, etc???

It is my conviction that a visitor should already understand the salvation message BEFORE coming to church. Just my opinion though.

God bless!

[Sam]

my comment was tic. no need for the history lesson, lol. my pastor is 3 stepper. but you'd think he's a one stepper. he preaches Christ, and Him crucified every service. recently he has been going on about the 3 steps... in passing, it is never the focal point. the assistant pastor is a one stepper.

How does that work out in the church having a three stepper and a one stepper as pastor and asst pastor?

[TGBTG]

For the most part I agree with you. However, I see the Pastor as the "teacher" and "mentor" of the body. It's the body's job to present the Gospel to the Lost and bring them into the church for education regarding the things of God. I look at the spiritual landscape of America... could it be that the "church" is leaving the Salvation message in the hands of those who see as ministers instead of taking it to the ends of the earth on our jobs, when shopping, at the barber shop, beauty salon, pet store, etc???

It is my conviction that a visitor should already understand the salvation message BEFORE coming to church. Just my opinion though.
God bless!

Agreed except when the visitor was not actually invited by anyone, IOW just passing by the church and decided to stop by...

[berkeley]

SAM: I stated that you wouldn't know that my pastor is a 3 stepper by the way he preaches. I have been here going on two years. He has gone through the 3 steps maybe 5 times. The impression that I get from the congregation is that there is a mix of PAJC and PCI. Everyone lives in harmony.

[houstonupci]

1) My thoughts are that I'd hate to have to hear you preach!
2) The three things you listed isn't the message of salvation!

Well, you won't ever have to hear me preach, as I'm not a preacher. Just a person seeking the truth, as I would hope you are. Your arrogance is very annoying to me.

[coadie]

Well, you won't ever have to hear me preach, as I'm not a preacher. Just a person seeking the truth, as I would hope you are. Your arrogance is very annoying to me.

You betcha.

[Jason B]

Looking for some opinions...

How often should a pastor preach the Salvation message?
My thoughts are that no visitor should ever leave without understanding that they must:

1) Not cut or trim their hair
2) Wave it in the wind
3) Know more than the witches know

What would you do if you felt your pastor did not preach the salvation message as often as you would like?

:ursofunny

[Mr. Smith]

Well, you won't ever have to hear me preach, as I'm not a preacher. Just a person seeking the truth, as I would hope you are. Your arrogance is very annoying to me.


And your thin-skinned judgmentalism is annoying me so I guess we're even. Look, I just said I wouldn't wanna hear you preach if all you talked about was the three-steps. And I also said your version of the 3-steps isn't the "Plan of salvation." Do you disagree? Let's try dialoging rather than judging....if you're able.

[pelathais]

Looking for some opinions...

How often should a pastor preach the Salvation message?
My thoughts are that no visitor should ever leave without understanding that they must:

1) Repent
2) Be baptized
3) Receive the Holy Ghost (with speaking in tongues as evidence).

What would you do if you felt your pastor did not preach the salvation message as often as you would like?

I would prefer to see a more evangelistic approach centered on the Person and work of Jesus Christ. Instead of telling your "visitor" what he or she MUST do... tell them what has already been done on their behalf.

This is message that I see as being overlooked by most of our "UPCI" type preaching. Jesus saves. Tell people that.

[houstonupci]

I would prefer to see a more evangelistic approach centered on the Person and work of Jesus Christ. Instead of telling your "visitor" what he or she MUST do... tell them what has already been done on their behalf.

This is message that I see as being overlooked by most of our "UPCI" type preaching. Jesus saves. Tell people that.

I'm glad Paul didn't have the same view. He was asked "what must we do?" What if he would have replied "Nothing. Everything has already been taken care of."

[houstonupci]

And your thin-skinned judgmentalism is annoying me so I guess we're even. Look, I just said I wouldn't wanna hear you preach if all you talked about was the three-steps. And I also said your version of the 3-steps isn't the "Plan of salvation." Do you disagree? Let's try dialoging rather than judging....if you're able.

Yes I do disagree. I believe the "three steps" are vital to salvation. They may not be the only part, but they are definitely vital.

Also, your quote was not that you wouldn't wanna hear me preach if all I talked about was the three-steps. You said you would "hate to have to hear me preach."

[berkeley]

HOUSTONUPCI:
It was Peter who was asked "what must we do?" It was asked AFTER Peter preached the gospel.

[Jack Shephard]

Yes I do disagree. I believe the "three steps" are vital to salvation. They may not be the only part, but they are definitely vital.

Also, your quote was not that you wouldn't wanna hear me preach if all I talked about was the three-steps. You said you would "hate to have to hear me preach."

Why are the 3-steps part of salvation? Isn't salvation found in Grace and Mercy through Jesus and the cross?

[Mr. Smith]

Yes I do disagree. I believe the "three steps" are vital to salvation. They may not be the only part, but they are definitely vital.

Also, your quote was not that you wouldn't wanna hear me preach if all I talked about was the three-steps. You said you would "hate to have to hear me preach."


Understood, but that's what I was referring to...you seemed to be saying that the three steps should be preached every Sunday. My reaction was, "Man, then I'd hate to hear you preach."

But I did hear a pastor once state that he preached "The New Birth" (as understood by him) for 73 straight Sundays.

[Jack Shephard]

Understood, but that's what I was referring to...you seemed to be saying that the three steps should be preached every Sunday. My reaction was, "Man, then I'd hate to hear you preach."

But I did hear a pastor once state that he preached "The New Birth" (as understood by him) for 73 straight Sundays.

Did he have 73 straight altar calls? That is a lot.

[Hoovie]

I would prefer to see a more evangelistic approach centered on the Person and work of Jesus Christ. Instead of telling your "visitor" what he or she MUST do... tell them what has already been done on their behalf.

This is message that I see as being overlooked by most of our "UPCI" type preaching. Jesus saves. Tell people that.

A thousand Amens to this post!

[houstonupci]

HOUSTONUPCI:
It was Peter who was asked "what must we do?" It was asked AFTER Peter preached the gospel.

Horrible brain fart on my part. Had JUST had a conversation about Paul.

[houstonupci]

Why are the 3-steps part of salvation? Isn't salvation found in Grace and Mercy through Jesus and the cross?

Because Jesus died for our sins, we are all saved? Surely not.

We must believe, yes. Believing in Jesus and believing that he is our Savior means we must believe His Word and everything is says.

When Peter was asked "what must we do," he replied "Repent, be baptized...and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

I believe that he is saying they are MUSTS.

[crakjak]

I would prefer to see a more evangelistic approach centered on the Person and work of Jesus Christ. Instead of telling your "visitor" what he or she MUST do... tell them what has already been done on their behalf.

This is message that I see as being overlooked by most of our "UPCI" type preaching. Jesus saves. Tell people that.

Now your preaching!! Nothing like it to bring folks to Christ, keep it simple, let the gospel do the work.

[Jack Shephard]

Because Jesus died for our sins, we are all saved? Surely not.

We must believe, yes. Believing in Jesus and believing that he is our Savior means we must believe His Word and everything is says.

When Peter was asked "what must we do," he replied "Repent, be baptized...and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

I believe that he is saying they are MUSTS.

He was asked after he preached the Gospel. Also Acts 2:19, Peter speaking says, "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved." KJV The NLT says, "But everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved." This verse is pointing back to when Joel said in Joel 2:28-32 28

"Then, after doing all those things,
I will pour out my Spirit upon all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy.
Your old men will dream dreams,
and your young men will see visions.
29 In those days I will pour out my Spirit
even on servants—men and women alike.
30 And I will cause wonders in the heavens and on the earth—
blood and fire and columns of smoke.
31 The sun will become dark,
and the moon will turn blood red
before that great and terrible[b] day of the Lord arrives.
32 But everyone who calls on the name of the Lord
will be saved,
for some on Mount Zion in Jerusalem will escape,
just as the Lord has said.
These will be among the survivors
whom the Lord has called.

Having said all that the people asked, after they called on Jesus, basically 'now what'. He said, 'Turn from your wicked lives and turn to Jesus, wash your shelf (be baptized) and be filled with His spirit.'

[Sam]

It is my opinion that each service should give people the opportunity to surrender to Jesus and when that opportunity is given there should be some brief explanation of how to be saved or how to get right with God.

[Jack Shephard]

Because Jesus died for our sins, we are all saved? Surely not.

We must believe, yes. Believing in Jesus and believing that he is our Savior means we must believe His Word and everything is says.

When Peter was asked "what must we do," he replied "Repent, be baptized...and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

I believe that he is saying they are MUSTS.

He was asked after he preached the Gospel. Also Acts 2:19, Peter speaking says, "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved." KJV The NLT says, "But everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved." This verse is pointing back to when Joel said in Joel 2:28-32 28

"Then, after doing all those things,
I will pour out my Spirit upon all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy.
Your old men will dream dreams,
and your young men will see visions.
29 In those days I will pour out my Spirit
even on servants—men and women alike.
30 And I will cause wonders in the heavens and on the earth—
blood and fire and columns of smoke.
31 The sun will become dark,
and the moon will turn blood red
before that great and terrible[b] day of the Lord arrives.
32 But everyone who calls on the name of the Lord
will be saved,
for some on Mount Zion in Jerusalem will escape,
just as the Lord has said.
These will be among the survivors
whom the Lord has called.

Having said all that the people asked, after they called on Jesus, basically 'now what'. He said, 'Turn from your wicked lives and turn to Jesus, wash your shelf (be baptized) and be filled with His spirit.'


Also wanted to add other evidence to my above post. Eph. 1 verse 6 says, "To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved" 7. "In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;" Skipping to verse 10 "That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:" 11. "In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:" 12. "That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ" and finally verse 13. "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise"

This is solid proof that when you accept Jesus (salvation) that the spirit of God seals you and is in you.

[jfrog]

Also wanted to add other evidence to my above post. Eph. 1 verse 6 says, "To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved" 7. "In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;" Skipping to verse 10 "That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:" 11. "In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:" 12. "That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ" and finally verse 13. "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise"

This is solid proof that when you accept Jesus (salvation) that the spirit of God seals you and is in you.

I'm on your side but I disagree about that verse being the final and best proof for the spirit of God sealing you at belief. I think gramatically it could just as easily refer to someone receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost after belief.

[Jack Shephard]

I'm on your side but I disagree about that verse being the final and best proof for the spirit of God sealing you at belief. I think gramatically it could just as easily refer to someone receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost after belief.

I don't agree. Here is why..."In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise". After ye heard the word of truth which we know is the Gospel of Jesus then the verse said "in whom after that ye believed" this all means that after hearing the Message or Jesus and believing in Him you were (past tense talking about when your faith in Him and His Message) sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. This is confirmed by Act 2:39. Ep 1:13 to me clearly shows that the HG, which is not tongues, is received at faith in Him and His Message.

[jfrog]

I don't agree. Here is why..."In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise". After ye heard the word of truth which we know is the Gospel of Jesus then the verse said "in whom after that ye believed" this all means that after hearing the Message or Jesus and believing in Him you were (past tense talking about when your faith in Him and His Message) sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. This is confirmed by Act 2:39. Ep 1:13 to me clearly shows that the HG, which is not tongues, is received at faith in Him and His Message.

There's not one three stepper who has a problem saying that after someone hears preaching and believes that they are then sealed with the Holy Ghost.

So to those who are already saved three steppers could tell them, "After you heard the message of Jesus and believed in Him you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise." They can say this because to them receiving the Holy Ghost comes after belief. You on the other hand are saying this verse means they had the Holy Ghost after belief but received it at belief. There is a problem with your view. The verse talks about being sealed with the Holy Spirit. Being sealed with it surely is a reference to receiving the Holy Ghost. But people in your view don't receive the Holy Ghost after belief.

In fact, upon further reflection, the verse would have said "when you believed you were sealed with the Holy Ghost" if it meant you received the Holy Ghost at belief.

[Jack Shephard]

There's not one three stepper who has a problem saying that after someone hears preaching and believes that they are then sealed with the Holy Ghost.

So to those who are already saved three steppers could tell them, "After you heard the message of Jesus and believed in Him you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise." They can say this because to them receiving the Holy Ghost comes after belief. You on the other hand are saying this verse means they had the Holy Ghost after belief but received it at belief. There is a problem with your view. The verse talks about being sealed with the Holy Spirit. Being sealed with it surely is a reference to receiving the Holy Ghost. But people in your view don't receive the Holy Ghost after belief.

In fact, upon further reflection, the verse would have said "when you believed you were sealed with the Holy Ghost" if it meant you received the Holy Ghost at belief.


Right, but to 3 steppers they believe that the HG comes after belief, but accompanied with tongues, but Ephesians is not talking about tongues. That is what I meaning. People that believe like me believe that tongues are subsequent to salvation, but people that believe like believe that the HG comes with salvation not tongues. As such the one isn't saved as they are hearing the Message they are saved AFTER they hear and accepts it. The HG is not tongues so it is not "thing" that happens that gives you salvation other than your acceptance of His redemptive work. You are sealed by the spirit after you hear the Message because one can't accept it until they hear it all.

[berkeley]

oh come on. nobody knows wot the verse would have said...

[Jermyn Davidson]

poor guy. he thinks this is an apostolic forum.

:spit

[Jermyn Davidson]

There should not be a service that happens without giving an "altar call". Even if it is only for the sake of one person we can't see who may be eavesdropping on the service from outside the church walls.


The Word of God has a way of dealing with folks-- even ones who are already saved, while using the basics. I wouldn't deny God the opportunity to do something in someone's life by not having an altar call.

[deltaguitar]

There should not be a service that happens without giving an "altar call". Even if it is only for the sake of one person we can't see who may be eavesdropping on the service from outside the church walls.


The Word of God has a way of dealing with folks-- even ones who are already saved, while using the basics. I wouldn't deny God the opportunity to do something in someone's life by not having an altar call.

You do realize that the altar call wasn't even invented until the 1800s. I go to a church now that does not only have altar call but they actually stand against the traditional altar call.

[pelathais]

You do realize that the altar call wasn't even invented until the 1800s. I go to a church now that does not only have altar call but they actually stand against the traditional altar call.

The term "altar call" does carry a bit of historic baggage. Charles Finney's "Anxiety Bench" is often cited as the prototype of the modern "Altar Call." He placed a bench out in front of the pulpit and "invited" people to come and tremble in the presence of God.

The funny thing is, Finney wasn't really reaching for "sinners" necessarily but for "lukewarm" Christians. The pattern seemed to resonate though, and it morphed into dozens of different approaches. It was a time when there was a great deal of innovation being introduced to Protestant worship services.

I went through a spell when I was young where I loved altar calls because I got so much out of the emotional outpouring. That only lasted for a while, though. Soon I realized that nothing really changes after the emotions. There wasn't any "new power" conferred. I still wrestled with the typical angsts of a teen ager and overcame those things through the development of my own character and commitments. I also noticed that most of the people travailing beside me would sort of "come and go" in their walk. The "altar service" didn't seem to really have much of a lasting effect on people.

The "screaming and hollering" were an outlet for my pent up feelings, but it never really addressed the causes of those feelings and did nothing to instruct me on how to better deal with life's many problems. "All you need is a good prayin' through" was just a cop out for "I really don't have any answers for the questions you ask."

I had to find my "answers" elsewhere - outside the clamor of a Pentecostal service. This was the process that taught me what it really meant to "build an altar."

[deltaguitar]

The term "altar call" does carry a bit of historic baggage. Charles Finney's "Anxiety Bench" is often cited as the prototype of the modern "Altar Call." He placed a bench out in front of the pulpit and "invited" people to come and tremble in the presence of God.

The funny thing is, Finney wasn't really reaching for "sinners" necessarily but for "lukewarm" Christians. The pattern seemed to resonate though, and it morphed into dozens of different approaches. It was a time when there was a great deal of innovation being introduced to Protestant worship services.

I went through a spell when I was young where I loved altar calls because I got so much out of the emotional outpouring. That only lasted for a while, though. Soon I realized that nothing really changes after the emotions. There wasn't any "new power" conferred. I still wrestled with the typical angsts of a teen ager and overcame those things through the development of my own character and commitments. I also noticed that most of the people travailing beside me would sort of "come and go" in their walk. The "altar service" didn't seem to really have much of a lasting effect on people.

The "screaming and hollering" were an outlet for my pent up feelings, but it never really addressed the causes of those feelings and did nothing to instruct me on how to better deal with life's many problems. "All you need is a good prayin' through" was just a cop out for "I really don't have any answers for the questions you ask."

I had to find my "answers" elsewhere - outside the clamor of a Pentecostal service. This was the process that taught me what it really meant to "build an altar."

excellent. I sometimes wonder how much my developement was delayed because of the emotionalism. We never dealt with anything we just "prayed through" and somehow that was enough.