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View Full Version : Im here AFF ... at least talk about me to my face!


joshua
09-15-2010, 06:35 PM
Dear Brethren In Christ,

It recently came to my attention that someone had posted a thread in regards to myself and the church (The Epicenter) I pastor as being seeker sensitive and emerging. The post referred to me in a very negative light and actually encouraged those calling me several different names including "nutjob".

Now, it doesnt bother me that I am being slammed on Apostolic Friends Forum although nothing about what I have read sounds too "Friendly" ... however I hold nothing against the UPC. In fact, I love the organization and quite honestly have spent the last few years defending it to others in mainstream Christianity. I appreciate the many years I spent in the UPCI and still to this day believe that there is not an organization that produces more powerful preachers and/or worshippers.

I realize that I have been labeled "Charasmatic" being that I planted and grew a church outside of the UPCI ... but truth be told, even though our people may not look exactly like seasoned saints .. if you took the time to get to know these wonderful "Jesus name baptized Holy Ghost filled" new converts you might not be so quick to judge our church by their hairstyles and dress code.

Lastly, I am fine with you saying what you want about me. But please stop posting ridiculous nonsense about Bro. Jason Sciscoe just because he comes to preach for us. He is a tremendous man of God!!! If those posting comments about him were half the man of God he is ... well .. they wouldnt be posting stupid comments.

So .... here is a thread ... feel free to say anything and everything you like about me ... get it off your chest ... just say it to my face.

P.S. Here is a clip of one of our recent altar calls ... in which I preach Jesus name baptism and infilling of the Holy Ghost ... :) thought you might enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVw7p7lESa4


In Christ,


Joshua Feuerstein

Maximilian
09-15-2010, 06:37 PM
Huh? Never heard of you bro.

Joe Hunt? Now him I've heard of.

seguidordejesus
09-15-2010, 06:42 PM
"Joshua", your reaction is not giving you any credibility. People talk about people. Ignore it or respond rationally. You choose.

Maximilian
09-15-2010, 06:57 PM
I smell a fraud, a troll, something ain't right.

Maximilian
09-15-2010, 06:58 PM
Defending the UPCI? The ones that are eating you for lunch behind closed doors and on conference platforms? :) What are you defending them on exactly? Their doctrines? Their culture? What exactly?

Maximilian
09-15-2010, 07:02 PM
Hey Josh! How was Global this year? Will you also be at the UPCI GC this year?

joshua
09-15-2010, 07:09 PM
Dont have a lot of time to hang around on this thread ...

Max:
Joe Hunt is a wonderful man of God and I count it an honor that our churches share the same name.

You are right ... lol ... I am a nobody and am surprised that anybody would even consider me worthy enough to talk about. There is not a bigger nobody than me!

While I may not see eye to eye with the UPCI on every issue ... I grew up in it and was fortunate to minister in it's churches for years. While, in times past, I have been a somewhat vocal critic ... I am also one of it's biggest fans! While, I may be the blacksheep of the family ... I still consider the UPC my family! Thats why I "defend" the UPC.

joshua
09-15-2010, 07:10 PM
Global? I'm not quite sure what that it.

Cindy
09-15-2010, 07:44 PM
Hi Joshua, my new grandson's name is Joshua. Welcome to AFF.

joshua
09-15-2010, 09:35 PM
Thank you Cindy ... probably wont be here long ... but I appreciate your hospitality nonetheless :)

Jack Shephard
09-15-2010, 09:45 PM
Hey I can verify that Joshua here is a good dude, unless you think I am a bad dude then think whatever you will. LOL

Scott Hutchinson
09-15-2010, 10:02 PM
Welcome Brother I have no mud to sling or anything bad to say about you.

joshua
09-15-2010, 10:12 PM
Thank you Brother ... I really appreciate the kind welcome ... if there are enough of you I just might hang around AFF :)

Sam
09-15-2010, 10:13 PM
...
You are right ... lol ... I am a nobody and am surprised that anybody would even consider me worthy enough to talk about. There is not a bigger nobody than me!
...


I don't know who you are.
Have I said anything bad about you?
What did I say and when did I say it?

TJJJ
09-15-2010, 10:14 PM
You're ugly and your momma dresses you funny!

uh....

You got a wart on the end of your nose....

If you are from Texas you probably have a low IQ, something along the lines of an armadillo,....

You said something good about the UPC so that makes us suspect you as a spy....

Don't know you Josh but glad you are here, we needed someone new to sling hash at, DA is getting old.

Enjoy your stay, don't take much serious here.

Sam
09-15-2010, 10:14 PM
Hi Joshua,
Welcome to AFF.

If you've read many posts here you'll see that we are a pretty diverse group of Apostolics.

joshua
09-15-2010, 10:17 PM
Bro Sam, somebody recently googled my name and informed me that there was a thread on AFF about me and the church I pastor called "Are the Lines Blurred?" ... the thread went on to not only call me several names (which I am used to) but actually spoke negatively of Bro. Jason Sciscoe just because he comes and preaches at our church.
I am fine with people saying what they will about me ... I was just a little disturbed that they would take a shot at an incredible man of God like Bro. Jason Sciscoe!
Even though the thread is a few months old .. I decided to join AFF and let these wonderful individuals at least say everything in my presence so they arent guilty of backbiting or gossip. I'm doing it for their salvation .. :)
My heart is somewhat warmed by the kind comments though ... God bless you all!

joshua
09-15-2010, 10:19 PM
TJJJJ ... I agree that neckties are of the devil .. in fact it really is nothing more than a cloth necklace .. :) and if you really want to get deep .. its a very suggestive arrow!!! I preach AGAINST them.

Sam
09-15-2010, 10:20 PM
Bro Sam, somebody recently googled my name and informed me that there was a thread on AFF about me and the church I pastor called "Are the Lines Blurred?" ... the thread went on to not only call me several names (which I am used to) but actually spoke negatively of Bro. Jason Sciscoe just because he comes and preaches at our church.
...


Well, I don't know who Jason Sciscoe is either.

Jack Shephard
09-15-2010, 10:24 PM
Bro Sam, somebody recently googled my name and informed me that there was a thread on AFF about me and the church I pastor called "Are the Lines Blurred?" ... the thread went on to not only call me several names (which I am used to) but actually spoke negatively of Bro. Jason Sciscoe just because he comes and preaches at our church.
I am fine with people saying what they will about me ... I was just a little disturbed that they would take a shot at an incredible man of God like Bro. Jason Sciscoe!
Even though the thread is a few months old .. I decided to join AFF and let these wonderful individuals at least say everything in my presence so they arent guilty of backbiting or gossip. I'm doing it for their salvation .. :)
My heart is somewhat warmed by the kind comments though ... God bless you all!

I saw where you were married to Kari Jobe. I know you saw that too. LOL

joshua
09-15-2010, 10:28 PM
LOL ... I know bro .... It's amazing the stuff you find out about yourself on the internet.

TJJJ
09-15-2010, 10:32 PM
Ha!

If people weren't talking about us how would we know who we were and what we were doing?

Recently a person gossipped about me and complained that I was driving a new escalade,...

Oh that those rumors could be true!

Ha!

Jack Shephard
09-15-2010, 10:44 PM
LOL ... I know bro .... It's amazing the stuff you find out about yourself on the internet.

It's better to read something that you can prove to be wrong than something that you can't refute!

Maximilian
09-15-2010, 10:47 PM
Dont have a lot of time to hang around on this thread ...

Max:
Joe Hunt is a wonderful man of God and I count it an honor that our churches share the same name.

You are right ... lol ... I am a nobody and am surprised that anybody would even consider me worthy enough to talk about. There is not a bigger nobody than me!

While I may not see eye to eye with the UPCI on every issue ... I grew up in it and was fortunate to minister in it's churches for years. While, in times past, I have been a somewhat vocal critic ... I am also one of it's biggest fans! While, I may be the blacksheep of the family ... I still consider the UPC my family! Thats why I "defend" the UPC.

Why are you it's biggest fan? And wouldn't you hold license with a group that you are the biggest fan of?

Maximilian
09-15-2010, 10:49 PM
Bro Sam, somebody recently googled my name and informed me that there was a thread on AFF about me and the church I pastor called "Are the Lines Blurred?" ... the thread went on to not only call me several names (which I am used to) but actually spoke negatively of Bro. Jason Sciscoe just because he comes and preaches at our church.
I am fine with people saying what they will about me ... I was just a little disturbed that they would take a shot at an incredible man of God like Bro. Jason Sciscoe!
Even though the thread is a few months old .. I decided to join AFF and let these wonderful individuals at least say everything in my presence so they arent guilty of backbiting or gossip. I'm doing it for their salvation .. :)
My heart is somewhat warmed by the kind comments though ... God bless you all!

It was done, settled and forgotten and you just made it all fresh again bro.
AFF usually doesn't get a bad rap for bashing preachers like yourself.... at least you get more of a break around here. You aren't swearing at homosexuals and damning women with cut hair to hell. That gets you a little farther right off the bat.

Jack Shephard
09-15-2010, 10:49 PM
Why are you it's biggest fan? And wouldn't you hold license with a group that you are the biggest fan of?

Because one is a fan doesn't mean that one wants to be a part of it.

:grampa

Maximilian
09-15-2010, 10:50 PM
I saw where you were married to Kari Jobe. I know you saw that too. LOL

hahahahahaahahaha i saw that too... hilarious. KJ isn't even married.

Maximilian
09-15-2010, 10:52 PM
Because one is a fan doesn't mean that one wants to be a part of it.

:grampa

Biggest fan?

I usually want to be part of things I am a fan of... guess that's just me.

If you left the UPC because you believed their teaching was wrong, the grid of understanding salvation is upside down, I'm not sure how you root that on as their #1 fan still. In fact, if God has shown you otherwise, you should be rooting them to straighten up. Guess I don't get it.

Sounds like he has many relationships with folks still and is trying to keep peace, which I can respect. But that's for the sake of the people, not the teaching and corporate culture of the UPCI.

Jack Shephard
09-15-2010, 10:56 PM
hahahahahaahahaha i saw that too... hilarious. KJ isn't even married.

She is a great singer!

MissBrattified
09-15-2010, 10:57 PM
Hi, Josh...welcome to the AFF. :D

I think it's great that you're here to address things head on. That's always the best way to handle misinformation. ;) It would probably work better if you'd post directly to the thread (http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=29309&highlight=lines+blurred) in question--which I apparently missed completely. I'll try to catch up....tomorrow. :coffee2

Jack Shephard
09-15-2010, 10:59 PM
Biggest fan?

I usually want to be part of things I am a fan of... guess that's just me.

If you left the UPC because you believed their teaching was wrong, the grid of understanding salvation is upside down, I'm not sure how you root that on as their #1 fan still. In fact, if God has shown you otherwise, you should be rooting them to straighten up. Guess I don't get it.

Sounds like he has many relationships with folks still and is trying to keep peace, which I can respect. But that's for the sake of the people, not the teaching and corporate culture of the UPCI.

Possibly. I think that the UPC is the best (by virtue of being the biggest) Org that is most similar to my view of God, salvation, etc. We are not eye to eye on everything or even most things, but it is probably the best "penetcostal" org going. I see and feel things changing and I think that the UPC will possibly be a better org in 5 years than it is now, if it makes it at all. Just a thought.

Maximilian
09-15-2010, 11:03 PM
Possibly. I think that the UPC is the best (by virtue of being the biggest) Org that is most similar to my view of God, salvation, etc. We are not eye to eye on everything or even most things, but it is probably the best "penetcostal" org going. I see and feel things changing and I think that the UPC will possibly be a better org in 5 years than it is now, if it makes it at all. Just a thought.

Wow. You shock me JTULLOCK.

I personally don't have such an optimistic view of the UPC. AOG, Independent and Global orgs are on the cutting edge of what's going on in terms of the church, while still maintaining pneumatic forms and style.

Cindy
09-15-2010, 11:05 PM
Hey I can verify that Joshua here is a good dude, unless you think I am a bad dude then think whatever you will. LOL

Whut? :lol

MissBrattified
09-15-2010, 11:05 PM
hahahahahaahahaha i saw that too... hilarious. KJ isn't even married.

She's very pretty and talented, though. I think he should claim her. :lovesmenot

Cindy
09-15-2010, 11:06 PM
You're ugly and your momma dresses you funny!

uh....

You got a wart on the end of your nose....

If you are from Texas you probably have a low IQ, something along the lines of an armadillo,....

You said something good about the UPC so that makes us suspect you as a spy....

Don't know you Josh but glad you are here, we needed someone new to sling hash at, DA is getting old.

Enjoy your stay, don't take much serious here.

Back up off of Texas, I don't want to have to whup you in front of newcomers. :girlytantrum

Maximilian
09-15-2010, 11:07 PM
She's very pretty and talented, though. I think he should claim her. :lovesmenot

Wait... is Josh single???? haha.

She is very pretty and seems to be quite a sweetheart who has not fallen into the ego trap. However, she is currently in a relationship with a another Christian artist....

joshua
09-15-2010, 11:08 PM
DAII, timlan2057, Dedicated Mind, Sweet Pea, N David ... who are these people??? And if they want to speak so boldly ... why must they hide behind nameless avatars? $100 says they are nothing more than people who can't "do" so they are relegated to sitting on AFF and "talking".
Guess its true what they say ... "Dogs don't bark at parked cars".

joshua
09-15-2010, 11:09 PM
waaaaait ... lol .. .whooooaaaa ... AFF is not a dating site ... lets not start now! ;)

Maximilian
09-15-2010, 11:10 PM
DAII, timlan2057, Dedicated Mind, Sweet Pea, N David ... who are these people??? And if they want to speak so boldly ... why must they hide behind nameless avatars? $100 says they are nothing more than people who can't "do" so they are relegated to sitting on AFF and "talking".
Guess its true what they say ... "Dogs don't bark at parked cars".

DAII doesn't really hide behind avatars bro. He's pretty much an open book.

Do you have the link to this post? What exactly is being said negative about you?

Maximilian
09-15-2010, 11:10 PM
... and KJ would look GREAT in a jean skirt. ha

Cindy
09-15-2010, 11:12 PM
Is this a recent occurrence?

joshua
09-15-2010, 11:12 PM
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?p=891389

joshua
09-15-2010, 11:15 PM
i know it doesn't sound like it ... but after 4 years of being out of the organization I have some pretty thick skin .... I am just more peeved about them mentioning Jason Sciscoe and trying to put him on blast than anything else.
Plus, when my new converts google my name why must they find "apostolics" (whom I speak highly of to them) bashing on their pastor?? lol ... here I am trying to convince them that "apostolic" is a good thing.

joshua
09-15-2010, 11:18 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78CS4-8hKE8

And if you are gonna post clips of our church .. at least post current ones ... what do you guys think of my air guitar at the end of this one??? award winning???

Jack Shephard
09-15-2010, 11:19 PM
Wow. You shock me JTULLOCK.

I personally don't have such an optimistic view of the UPC. AOG, Independent and Global orgs are on the cutting edge of what's going on in terms of the church, while still maintaining pneumatic forms and style.

I am trying to remain positive. No doubt that these other orgs are more hip and cutting edge, but they also don't have the equaled resources of the UPC. I probably would join global if I were wanting to be a part of an org for ideology sake. UPC is the closest to my ideology (they are not that close) with the resources.

Jack Shephard
09-15-2010, 11:20 PM
DAII, timlan2057, Dedicated Mind, Sweet Pea, N David ... who are these people??? And if they want to speak so boldly ... why must they hide behind nameless avatars? $100 says they are nothing more than people who can't "do" so they are relegated to sitting on AFF and "talking".
Guess its true what they say ... "Dogs don't bark at parked cars".

DAII and Timlan don't hide behind names/avatars. Don't think they really had a problem with Josh other than using him as an example. IMO.

joshua
09-15-2010, 11:20 PM
here is some more ammo for them :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e9L73HpXP4&feature=related

Jack Shephard
09-15-2010, 11:21 PM
... and KJ would look GREAT in a jean skirt. ha

I think she is good just the way she is. It is how God wants her.

joshua
09-15-2010, 11:21 PM
Who is DAII then?

Jack Shephard
09-15-2010, 11:22 PM
i know it doesn't sound like it ... but after 4 years of being out of the organization I have some pretty thick skin .... I am just more peeved about them mentioning Jason Sciscoe and trying to put him on blast than anything else.
Plus, when my new converts google my name why must they find "apostolics" (whom I speak highly of to them) bashing on their pastor?? lol ... here I am trying to convince them that "apostolic" is a good thing.

Seriously? Why? We are horrible people. LOL

Cindy
09-15-2010, 11:24 PM
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?p=891389

Good grief. That explains a lot.

joshua
09-15-2010, 11:24 PM
lol @ JTullock

Jack Shephard
09-15-2010, 11:24 PM
Who is DAII then?

He usually is on during the day. It is too late for him now, at least most days. He is a straight shooter and honestly I think that you and he are similar on your beliefs and such. He used to be UPC and now goes to Grace Church in Humble, Tx. a large church that used to be UPC as well. He is top notch and so is Timlan for the record.

joshua
09-15-2010, 11:35 PM
hmmm ... wonder why they were shooting at me ... oh well .. lol

Maximilian
09-15-2010, 11:38 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78CS4-8hKE8

And if you are gonna post clips of our church .. at least post current ones ... what do you guys think of my air guitar at the end of this one??? award winning???

Cool... is this a special concert?

joshua
09-15-2010, 11:39 PM
i just love everybody :) i love confrontation ... but not w/ my brethren.

Maximilian
09-15-2010, 11:39 PM
I am trying to remain positive. No doubt that these other orgs are more hip and cutting edge, but they also don't have the equaled resources of the UPC. I probably would join global if I were wanting to be a part of an org for ideology sake. UPC is the closest to my ideology (they are not that close) with the resources.

What resources?

Jack Shephard
09-15-2010, 11:41 PM
What resources?

Money is at the top of the list. I am not saying the UPC is better BECAUSE of this just that it "seems," and I could be wrong, to have more than Global and some others. If I am wrong that is ok.

Maximilian
09-15-2010, 11:41 PM
Dan would praise you for everything but using the pulpit to bash the President.

Jack Shephard
09-15-2010, 11:41 PM
i just love everybody :) i love confrontation ... but not w/ my brethren.

Quit lying.



:thumbsup

Jack Shephard
09-15-2010, 11:42 PM
Dan would praise you for everything but using the pulpit to bash the President.

Ditto. I think Dan likes and voted for Obama. I could be wrong.

Maximilian
09-15-2010, 11:47 PM
I actually agree with Dan. Using the pulpit as an opportunity to get partisan and slam a President is not cool. It also excludes those who want to follow Jesus but may not share the same political views.

joshua
09-16-2010, 12:04 AM
you should have seen the speech ... it was in response to Obama mocking the Bible in a recent speech ... They were really stretching to say that I was bashing the President ... I was just making some very candid remarks based upon fact.

Michael
09-16-2010, 12:14 AM
"Joshua", your reaction is not giving you any credibility. People talk about people. Ignore it or respond rationally. You choose.

Maybe you should take you're own advice....Need I remind you of your comment to me on the Spanish thread????LAME!:snapout

Maximilian
09-16-2010, 01:27 AM
you should have seen the speech ... it was in response to Obama mocking the Bible in a recent speech ... They were really stretching to say that I was bashing the President ... I was just making some very candid remarks based upon fact.

That clip went around the internet and was much ado about nothing, Joshua. I listened to the speech in its context. Seems folks got their feathers ruffled and made a deal out of it at a politically sensitive time.

canam
09-16-2010, 04:23 AM
DAII, timlan2057, Dedicated Mind, Sweet Pea, N David ... who are these people??? And if they want to speak so boldly ... why must they hide behind nameless avatars? $100 says they are nothing more than people who can't "do" so they are relegated to sitting on AFF and "talking".
Guess its true what they say ... "Dogs don't bark at parked cars".

Guarantee ya someone on here knows who those people are,i just know dans name and he has posted in past under Dan Alicea because that is his name ,feel better? The others ,if they want to reveal themselves can.He used to hold license as does his dad in NYC /spanish ministry i believe.He loves to bash the upc,for any inconsistencies/double standards which like any org are many.He might be closer to your beliefs than the upc's

Timmy
09-16-2010, 07:37 AM
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?p=891389

I'm happy to say that, in that thread, I stuck up for ya. Kinda. :lol

Timmy
09-16-2010, 07:38 AM
BTW, welcome!

Sweet Pea
09-16-2010, 10:29 AM
Well, Joshua, I watched two of your clips. The first one (altar call), it appears that you may have matured some in the past few years. :thumbsup

The second one (air guitar) is simply not my way of worshiping God. Maybe I'm just old fashioned. :spit

DAII
09-16-2010, 10:44 AM
What's up Josh ... you and I have had various political discussions on Facebook about spiritualizing politics ... actually you might recall defriending me over one heated discussion ...

We are linked still.

As Max expressed we agree on quite a bit ... but not in using the pulpit in the manner this video YOU PUBLISHED PUBLICLY on YOUTUBE for viewing to the general public and for commentary ...

There a quite a few comments on the video at their site ... too ... as there are here on AFF ... any other place where the video might be embedded.

I posted the thread in question and posted my thoughts on your public video ...that's not gossip, son.

BTW, we agree on illegal immigration reform.

DAII
09-16-2010, 11:05 AM
Well, Joshua, I watched two of your clips. The first one (altar call), it appears that you may have matured some in the past few years. :thumbsup

The second one (air guitar) is simply not my way of worshiping God. Maybe I'm just old fashioned. :spit


SweetPea, anything else you'd like to add ....
:bliss

Sherri
09-16-2010, 11:28 AM
Joshua--been there, done that. Once you leave, people will always misunderstand your motives and your calling. But continue to go in the direction God called you. He's the only one you have to answer to anyway. After 19 years out, I hope we've proven that we're not crazy, loosey-goosey, greasy-grace, charismaniacs. But some will continue to believe we are anyway. That's just life.

joshua
09-16-2010, 11:47 AM
Dearest SweetPea,

Again, I have no idea who you are ... but thank you ... I guess. In regards to the "air guitar" .. this was not during a "worship service". We are under this strange delusion that sometimes its ok to have a little bit of fun in a church setting. This actually took place during one of our Friday night music scenes that we use for outreach.
So please forgive me for my air guitar ... as you can probably tell ... I am no Larry Carter.

P.S. I forgive you for the hateful comment you posted on the last thread in regards to "its not what is said, its who is saying it ... I guess you would just have to know the young man to know what I am saying"

:) God bless you.

DaffyDuck
09-16-2010, 11:50 AM
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?p=891389


Ya gotta admit, though, this video is pathetic. :toofunny

joshua
09-16-2010, 01:26 PM
I stand behind everything said in the video ... period.

Cindy
09-16-2010, 01:31 PM
Guarantee ya someone on here knows who those people are,i just know dans name and he has posted in past under Dan Alicea because that is his name ,feel better? The others ,if they want to reveal themselves can.He used to hold license as does his dad in NYC /spanish ministry i believe.He loves to bash the upc,for any inconsistencies/double standards which like any org are many.He might be closer to your beliefs than the upc's

Yes, some of us know these people's name. But we don't out them to everybody and their dog. Let them fight their own battles please.

Maximilian
09-16-2010, 01:34 PM
Hey Josh, that video you posted, is that your church? Or is that a special event at or with someone else's church?

joshua
09-16-2010, 01:39 PM
That was a Friday night evangelistic service at our church ... some good friends of mine (Press Play) came from the Dreamcenter in LA and performed. We had a great night and as you can tell by the altar call a wonderful response to the message. A few weeks later we rented out a pool and baptized a bunch of them.

DAII
09-16-2010, 01:42 PM
I stand behind everything said in the video ... period.
And I stand behind my opinion that it's shameful and not appropriate.

joshua
09-16-2010, 01:43 PM
P.S. The video was posted for the intense purposes of proving that I still preach the "salvation" message of Acts 2:38 for all of those that believe I have left the apostolic message. I am hoping it also proves to people that a church plant can accomplish all of this in only 24 months and still preach truth ... truth is just more palatable marinated in love than it is prepared with bitter herbs of judgement and self righteousness.

joshua
09-16-2010, 01:45 PM
and I love you for it Daniel ... so shall we argue about it some more .. or can we lay it to rest and be friends??? :) While I dont know you personally ... I know you have an incredible wife and if you reflect her taste ... then I am sure you are an awesome guy and I would love to shake hands and be friends.

Maximilian
09-16-2010, 01:46 PM
That was a Friday night evangelistic service at our church ... some good friends of mine (Press Play) came from the Dreamcenter in LA and performed. We had a great night and as you can tell by the altar call a wonderful response to the message. A few weeks later we rented out a pool and baptized a bunch of them.

Very cool. Yeah, looks like you had quite the crowd. I'd imagine some Dream Center cats showed up to rock the party as well?

Looked like an awesome Jesus party.

Praxeas
09-16-2010, 01:47 PM
I smell a fraud, a troll, something ain't right.
Me too...maybe this is just a way of self promotion cuz I never heard of this dude

Maximilian
09-16-2010, 01:48 PM
Me too...maybe this is just a way of self promotion cuz I never heard of this dude

That was early on. I didn't think the guy was who he was claiming. I was wrong.

Praxeas
09-16-2010, 01:49 PM
That was early on. I didn't think the guy was who he was claiming. I was wrong.
I googled the thread and came up with one started by Daniel...so he can blame DA instead of all of AFF :bliss

joshua
09-16-2010, 01:50 PM
We invited the Dreamcenter but unfortunately there were transportation issues ... I love what they do though ... if you ever get a chance to visit their ministry ... it will change the way you view Christianity!!!

Ferd
09-16-2010, 02:06 PM
There is sooooo much I would love to say here..... LOL

most of it would be useless.

for the record Joshua, you are more likely to be taken to task for not bashing the UPCI than you are being "seeker friendly" (what ever that is) on AFF.

Those who are even remotely opposed to the emergent stuff dont frequint AFF. It is kind of over run by the "I left the upci and they are god hating hariy ticks" crowd.


(this is me being nice)

DAII
09-16-2010, 02:07 PM
and I love you for it Daniel ... so shall we argue about it some more .. or can we lay it to rest and be friends??? :) While I dont know you personally ... I know you have an incredible wife and if you reflect her taste ... then I am sure you are an awesome guy and I would love to shake hands and be friends.

She smooths out my rough edges, Josh ... as you know she's a class act and my honey ....

We can agree to disagree ... friend.

Praxeas
09-16-2010, 02:08 PM
She smooths out my rough edges, Josh ... as you know she's a class act and my honey ....

We can agreed to disagree ... friend.
She needs to get a bigger rolling pin my friend and beat out some more of those rough edges :thumbsup

Maximilian
09-16-2010, 02:08 PM
There is sooooo much I would love to say here..... LOL

most of it would be useless.

for the record Joshua, you are more likely to be taken to task for not bashing the UPCI than you are being "seeker friendly" (what ever that is) on AFF.

Those who are even remotely opposed to the emergent stuff dont frequint AFF. It is kind of over run by the "I left the upci and they are god hating hariy ticks" crowd.


(this is me being nice)

Great summary, Ferd.

Maximilian
09-16-2010, 02:09 PM
She needs to get a bigger rolling pin my friend and beat out some more of those rough edges :thumbsup

:ursofunny

rgcraig
09-16-2010, 02:11 PM
She needs to get a bigger rolling pin my friend and beat out some more of those rough edges :thumbsup

:bliss:bliss:bliss

Praxeas
09-16-2010, 02:24 PM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ZIvg_I3yHx0/Se-QESBWvmI/AAAAAAAAETQ/7xdrFNDEm5U/s320/wife+rolling+pin.jpg

Jack Shephard
09-16-2010, 02:38 PM
I am glad to see that eveyone is playing nice now. Play on.

Cindy
09-16-2010, 03:32 PM
I am glad to see that eveyone is playing nice now. Play on.

:thumbsup

joshua
09-16-2010, 03:40 PM
I dont know what to talk about now that everyone is getting along :)

berkeley
09-16-2010, 03:42 PM
careful with the thread starter... he's a "stone of fire"

TJJJ
09-16-2010, 03:49 PM
I am glad to see that eveyone is playing nice now. Play on.

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!


Let's see if we can stir it up some!

TEXAN'S IQ'S ARE EVEN LOWER THAN AN ARMADILLO!!!!:razz

Charismatics have left the fold and are headed straight to the hot place.... (texas)!

If you use "Air guitars" on a friday night you are probably ..... "Emergent"!

Let's see....

DA is nothing but a rabble rousing ex-upcer who is really a closet conservative! He is just mad that they did not elect him to the texas district youth position! (Hey it sounds good, eh?)

:thumbsup

berkeley
09-16-2010, 03:54 PM
thank you, zz-top

joshua
09-16-2010, 04:03 PM
Absolute heresy ... can't believe these rabble rouser heathenistic damned to hell egotistical rebellious young preachers who dare to stand defiant in the face of a never changing God and present to this world an absolutely wishy washy watered down undesirable impotent feel good live easy gospel ... and the first sign you are headed down that road .... Friday night air guitar on the platform ... poor young guy ... headed straight to Hades!!!

OneAccord
09-16-2010, 04:12 PM
Welcome, Bro. Josh, in Jesus Name. I hope you'll stick around and see there are a few of us good people left on AFF. A few. A very few. Ok, one. One is left. And, well, in my most humble and sincere opinion, that one just happens to be me. Which only proves one thing. I'm more Apostolic than DanII (or whatever he calls himself these days) and everyone else will ever be.

TJJJ
09-16-2010, 04:12 PM
Absolute heresy ... can't believe these rabble rouser heathenistic damned to hell egotistical rebellious young preachers who dare to stand defiant in the face of a never changing God and present to this world an absolutely wishy washy watered down undesirable impotent feel good live easy gospel ... and the first sign you are headed down that road .... Friday night air guitar on the platform ... poor young guy ... headed straight to Hades!!!

Now....

I didn't say "HADES", I said something worse! TEXAS!:ursofunny

TJJJ
09-16-2010, 04:14 PM
Welcome, Bro. Josh, in Jesus Name. I hope you'll stick around and see there are a few of us good people left on AFF. A few. A very few. Ok, one. One is left. And, well, in my most humble and sincere opinion, that one just happens to be TJJJ. Which only proves one thing. I'm more Apostolic than DanII (or whatever he calls himself these days) and everyone else will ever be.

Why thank you "one"! I appreciate the kind words!:thumbsup




.

Sam
09-16-2010, 04:19 PM
DAII, timlan2057, Dedicated Mind, Sweet Pea, N David ... who are these people??? And if they want to speak so boldly ... why must they hide behind nameless avatars? $100 says they are nothing more than people who can't "do" so they are relegated to sitting on AFF and "talking".
Guess its true what they say ... "Dogs don't bark at parked cars".

DAII is pretty open as to who he is and so is timlan. I don't know who the others are, but AFF does allow anonymity to those who are afraid their pastor or other ministers will find out that they do not just blindly follow the party line. I use the name Sam because when I came I thought we all needed to use an anonymous name. Now, I also tell who I am. Thank God I do not have to be afraid that my pastor might find out what I really believe.

Jack Shephard
09-16-2010, 04:31 PM
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!


Let's see if we can stir it up some!

TEXAN'S IQ'S ARE EVEN LOWER THAN AN ARMADILLO!!!!:razz

Charismatics have left the fold and are headed straight to the hot place.... (texas)!

If you use "Air guitars" on a friday night you are probably ..... "Emergent"!

Let's see....

DA is nothing but a rabble rousing ex-upcer who is really a closet conservative! He is just mad that they did not elect him to the texas district youth position! (Hey it sounds good, eh?)

:thumbsup

Tell me something I don't know.

OneAccord
09-16-2010, 04:31 PM
Why thank you "one"! I appreciate the kind words!:thumbsup
.


Originally Posted by OneAccord
Welcome, Bro. Josh, in Jesus Name. I hope you'll stick around and see there are a few of us good people left on AFF. A few. A very few. Ok, one. One is left. And, well, in my most humble and sincere opinion, that one just happens to be ME. Which only proves one thing. I'm more Apostolic than DanII (or whatever he calls himself these days) and everyone else will ever be.

Thats all I got to say bout that.

TJJJ
09-16-2010, 04:37 PM
Thats all I got to say bout that.

That's what I said! ME..... TJJJ!!!

:toofunny

Praxeas
09-16-2010, 04:38 PM
DAII, timlan2057, Dedicated Mind, Sweet Pea, N David ... who are these people??? And if they want to speak so boldly ... why must they hide behind nameless avatars? $100 says they are nothing more than people who can't "do" so they are relegated to sitting on AFF and "talking".
Guess its true what they say ... "Dogs don't bark at parked cars".
DA is his initials. TimLan is more of a name than you gave, giving just your first name. Same goes with N David...

So tell us, what is your full name? Please help us verify this by posting your SS number, phone number and address :toofunny

Sam
09-16-2010, 04:38 PM
She needs to get a bigger rolling pin my friend and beat out some more of those rough edges :thumbsup

You can't expect too many miracles so soon.
Give her some time.

Sam
09-16-2010, 04:39 PM
DA is his initials. TimLan is more of a name than you gave, giving just your first name. Same goes with N David...

So tell us, what is your full name? Please help us verify this by posting your SS number, phone number and address :toofunny

and your debit card number, PIN, and thee digit code on the back

OneAccord
09-16-2010, 04:40 PM
Ok, me and TJ are good. But thats all.

joshua
09-16-2010, 04:57 PM
Joshua Kane Feuerstein 01/07/81 Employer: Epicenter Church 686-95-4117 Blood Type: Red 4708 2546 9585 4116 exp. 02/13 005

Thanks Lifelock! :) lol

Oh .. one other tidbit of information ... engaged twice, never married, still single ... :thumbsup

DAII
09-16-2010, 05:01 PM
Joshua Kane Feuerstein 01/07/81 Employer: Epicenter Church 686-95-4117 Blood Type: Red 4708 2546 9585 4116 exp. 02/13 005

Thanks Lifelock! :) lol

Oh .. one other tidbit of information ... engaged twice, never married, still single ... :thumbsup

Thanks for sharing ....:bigbaby

Maximilian
09-16-2010, 05:02 PM
Joshua Kane Feuerstein 01/07/81 Employer: Epicenter Church 686-95-4117 Blood Type: Red 4708 2546 9585 4116 exp. 02/13 005

Thanks Lifelock! :) lol

Oh .. one other tidbit of information ... engaged twice, never married, still single ... :thumbsup

0 for 2. Ouch.

Well, hey... KJ may have a bf, but she's not married yet. Still hope for you!

DAII
09-16-2010, 05:04 PM
0 for 2. Ouch.

Well, hey... KJ may have a bf, but she's not married yet. Still hope for you!

Maybe he can find himself a California girl ... like I did ...

Well not technically. She's originally from New Mexico.

Max ... has your significant other read your remarks about Kari Jobe in this thread?
:bliss

Maximilian
09-16-2010, 05:04 PM
Maybe he can find himself a California girl ... like I did ...

Well not technically.

Max ... has your significant other read your remarks about Kari Jobe in this thread?
:bliss

HA! What about my KJ remarks.

DAII
09-16-2010, 05:19 PM
So Josh now that you're charismatic ... when are you going to get the revelation regarding salvation?

rgcraig
09-16-2010, 05:21 PM
Ok, me and TJ are good. But thats all.

...and me!

joshua
09-16-2010, 05:25 PM
whats salvation DA??? never heard of it before ... :) is it like a salve and a lotion combined???

rgcraig
09-16-2010, 05:45 PM
whats salvation DA??? never heard of it before ... :) is it like a salve and a lotion combined???

How do you spell salvation?

DaffyDuck
09-16-2010, 05:46 PM
How do you spell salvation?


Ignore him, he's trying to be impressive.

I prefer to stay delightfully hidden. Some of you people scare me.

OneAccord
09-16-2010, 06:11 PM
...and me!

Oh yeah. And her too. Me, TJ and Renda.

Cindy
09-16-2010, 08:09 PM
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!


Let's see if we can stir it up some!

TEXAN'S IQ'S ARE EVEN LOWER THAN AN ARMADILLO!!!!:razz

Charismatics have left the fold and are headed straight to the hot place.... (texas)!

If you use "Air guitars" on a friday night you are probably ..... "Emergent"!

Let's see....

DA is nothing but a rabble rousing ex-upcer who is really a closet conservative! He is just mad that they did not elect him to the texas district youth position! (Hey it sounds good, eh?)

:thumbsup

:foottap

Cindy
09-16-2010, 08:17 PM
Welcome, Bro. Josh, in Jesus Name. I hope you'll stick around and see there are a few of us good people left on AFF. A few. A very few. Ok, one. One is left. And, well, in my most humble and sincere opinion, that one just happens to be me. Which only proves one thing. I'm more Apostolic than DanII (or whatever he calls himself these days) and everyone else will ever be.

Ahem, excuse me. I think you are forgetting someone.........HELLO.:irule

Cindy
09-16-2010, 08:20 PM
Now....

I didn't say "HADES", I said something worse! TEXAS!:ursofunny



:thwak

Cindy
09-16-2010, 08:27 PM
Poor TJJJ, he is so jealous that he is not in Texas.

Sam
09-16-2010, 08:35 PM
how do you spell salvation?

j e s u s

Jack Shephard
09-16-2010, 08:46 PM
j e s u s

WOW!

deltaguitar
09-16-2010, 08:47 PM
Dear Brethren In Christ,

It recently came to my attention that someone had posted a thread in regards to myself and the church (The Epicenter) I pastor as being seeker sensitive and emerging. The post referred to me in a very negative light and actually encouraged those calling me several different names including "nutjob".

Now, it doesnt bother me that I am being slammed on Apostolic Friends Forum although nothing about what I have read sounds too "Friendly" ... however I hold nothing against the UPC. In fact, I love the organization and quite honestly have spent the last few years defending it to others in mainstream Christianity. I appreciate the many years I spent in the UPCI and still to this day believe that there is not an organization that produces more powerful preachers and/or worshippers.

I realize that I have been labeled "Charasmatic" being that I planted and grew a church outside of the UPCI ... but truth be told, even though our people may not look exactly like seasoned saints .. if you took the time to get to know these wonderful "Jesus name baptized Holy Ghost filled" new converts you might not be so quick to judge our church by their hairstyles and dress code.

Lastly, I am fine with you saying what you want about me. But please stop posting ridiculous nonsense about Bro. Jason Sciscoe just because he comes to preach for us. He is a tremendous man of God!!! If those posting comments about him were half the man of God he is ... well .. they wouldnt be posting stupid comments.

So .... here is a thread ... feel free to say anything and everything you like about me ... get it off your chest ... just say it to my face.

P.S. Here is a clip of one of our recent altar calls ... in which I preach Jesus name baptism and infilling of the Holy Ghost ... :) thought you might enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVw7p7lESa4


In Christ,


Joshua Feuerstein

You sound 99% UPC to me. Not sure why you wouldn't be more at home among them. I am sure you are a good guy. I am just glad I am not a part of this type of thing anymore.

OneAccord
09-16-2010, 08:47 PM
Ahem, excuse me. I think you are forgetting someone.........HELLO.:irule

And Cindy.

(even if she is a Texan.)

Timmy
09-17-2010, 07:45 AM
And Cindy.

(even if she is a Texan.)

:whistle

geekette
09-17-2010, 07:48 AM
you should have seen the speech ... it was in response to Obama mocking the Bible in a recent speech ... They were really stretching to say that I was bashing the President ... I was just making some very candid remarks based upon fact.

Erm, sorry, this is the ex-lawyer in me coming out, but can you tell me when/where these comments were made by the president so I can look them up and confirm them for myself? Most politicians tend to be extremely careful when it comes to the dominant religion of their country and Obama is no exception.

--

On a separate note, your church meets in Tempe? Where, when? Granted, I'm probably old enough to be your mother, but it might be an interesting trip.

geekette
09-17-2010, 07:50 AM
I stand behind everything said in the video ... period.

Somebody didn't like what was being said in the video...it's now unavailable.

Liberal
09-17-2010, 08:20 AM
you should have seen the speech ... it was in response to Obama mocking the Bible in a recent speech ... They were really stretching to say that I was bashing the President ... I was just making some very candid remarks based upon fact.


Remarks like these illustrates one's inability to comprehend. His point about the bible and its involvement in the direction of our country was completely valid. If you want to run for office, do so. If you'd like to pastor a church, that option is available as well.

Cindy
09-17-2010, 08:26 AM
I have an announcement for all those jealous of Texans. We are so sorry, but we are closing our borders to outsiders, due to the high demand for entry. We are however taking applications for residency, and there is of course an entry fee. Please contact the governor's office at 000-000-0000. All applications must be in before 12/01/12. Thank you!!

whoami
09-17-2010, 08:34 AM
I have an announcement for all those jealous of Texans. We are so sorry, but we are closing our borders to outsiders, due to the high demand for entry. We are however taking applications for residency, and there is of course an entry fee. Please contact the governor's office at 000-000-0000. All applications must be in before 12/01/12. Thank you!!


Don't do that! I'm leaving in 18 hours for a 7 day vacation in Texas!! (I'm counting, yes.) :bliss

Cindy
09-17-2010, 09:03 AM
Don't do that! I'm leaving in 18 hours for a 7 day vacation in Texas!! (I'm counting, yes.) :bliss

Visitor's are always welcome. Y'all come back soon.:)

joshua
09-17-2010, 10:13 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi-V_ilJu0w&feature=related


These are the comments that I was responding to in the speech in question. I remember making these two specific controversial statements ..

(in regards to him taking the portions WAY out of context)
"Mr. President, you may read the Bible but you have obviously displayed that you lack the intelligence needed to comprehend it."

"Mr. President, if America is NOT a Christian nation ... than why did you feel it necessary to pretend to be one in order to get elected?"

Maximilian
09-17-2010, 10:16 AM
I have an announcement for all those jealous of Texans. We are so sorry, but we are closing our borders to outsiders, due to the high demand for entry. We are however taking applications for residency, and there is of course an entry fee. Please contact the governor's office at 000-000-0000. All applications must be in before 12/01/12. Thank you!!

I never understood the hype about Texas. It isn't exactly the most beautiful land in the United States. Flat and... well, I'll respect your pride lands... but I just never got the hype.

Maximilian
09-17-2010, 10:20 AM
These are the comments that I was responding to in the speech in question. I remember making these two specific controversial statements ..

(in regards to him taking the portions WAY out of context)
"Mr. President, you may read the Bible but you have obviously displayed that you lack the intelligence needed to comprehend it."

"Mr. President, if America is NOT a Christian nation ... than why did you feel it necessary to pretend to be one in order to get elected?"

A Christian minister who questions the confession and faith of another... and one he doesn't know personally?

What is he not comprehending that you are slamming his intelligence at a church gathering?

You actually live in the bubble that believes America is a Christian nation? Post-modernism pushed over the tables a looong time ago. We are missionaries in a foreign land, my brother. And this perspective that America used to be the New Jerusalem is historical revisionism to its core.

johnny44
09-17-2010, 10:31 AM
I have an announcement for all those jealous of Texans. We are so sorry, but we are closing our borders to outsiders, due to the high demand for entry. We are however taking applications for residency, and there is of course an entry fee. Please contact the governor's office at 000-000-0000. All applications must be in before 12/01/12. Thank you!! I need to go to Midland Texas next September Will you let me in? :friend

Cindy
09-17-2010, 11:31 AM
I never understood the hype about Texas. It isn't exactly the most beautiful land in the United States. Flat and... well, I'll respect your pride lands... but I just never got the hype.

Flat? What parts of Texas have you been to. I think it's a holdover from the Alamo. Funny things some of those guys weren't Texans.

Cindy
09-17-2010, 11:31 AM
I need to go to Midland Texas next September Will you let me in? :friend

I thought you were already in Texas. Sure, come on and visit. West Texas is beautiful.

Maximilian
09-17-2010, 11:41 AM
Flat? What parts of Texas have you been to. I think it's a holdover from the Alamo. Funny things some of those guys weren't Texans.

You mean there are parts with mountains and hills, with green and vibrant colors? :)

POWERUP
09-17-2010, 12:45 PM
P.S. The video was posted for the intense purposes of proving that I still preach the "salvation" message of Acts 2:38 for all of those that believe I have left the apostolic message. I am hoping it also proves to people that a church plant can accomplish all of this in only 24 months and still preach truth ... truth is just more palatable marinated in love than it is prepared with bitter herbs of judgement and self righteousness.

Just continue to do what God leads you to do...... No need to try and
defend you or your church....

Looks like you have a great thing going:thumbsup

Cindy
09-17-2010, 01:25 PM
You mean there are parts with mountains and hills, with green and vibrant colors? :)

Yep, mountains in West Texas, the Hill Country in South Texas, East Texas is very green,with Pine Trees and Lakes. Beautiful Wildflowers as well. We honeymooned in West Texas years ago. And of course, Texas is a whole nother country. :)

whoami
09-17-2010, 01:29 PM
Yep, mountains in West Texas, the Hill Country in South Texas, East Texas is very green,with Pine Trees and Lakes. Beautiful Wildflowers as well. We honeymooned in West Texas years ago. And of course, Texas is a whole nother country. :)



This will be my first time in Texas. We're going to San Antonio for two days, and then on down to South Padre for 4 days. :thumbsup

berkeley
09-17-2010, 01:30 PM
There may be a few great places in Texas, but I am not in one of them. The Rio Bravo... er... I mean, the Rio Grande Valley needs to be absorbed into and become the newest state in Mexico. They can name it Nuevo Tamalipas! I'd rather be in Marfa looking at the lights. That'd be better than wot they have to offer down here. Night clubs... bars... sports bars... strip clubs everywhere in between the cities (outer city limits).

Cindy
09-17-2010, 01:32 PM
There may be a few great places in Texas, but I am not in one of them. The Rio Bravo... er... I mean, the Rio Grande Valley needs to be absorbed into and become the newest state in Mexico. They can name it Nuevo Tamalipas! I'd rather be in Marfa looking at the lights. That'd be better than wot they have to offer down here. Night clubs... bars... sports bars... strip clubs everywhere in between the cities (outer city limits).

Yep, some big mess down there. Maybe you could move a little north.:)

Cindy
09-17-2010, 01:32 PM
This will be my first time in Texas. We're going to San Antonio for two days, and then on down to South Padre for 4 days. :thumbsup

You should love San Antone, the river walk, great places to eat too. And Padre Island is great.

berkeley
09-17-2010, 01:41 PM
Yep, some big mess down there. Maybe you could move a little north.:)

Catholic stronghold... brujerias, santa muerte... big down here. Married folk and those in *cough* commited relationships having affairs like it's the new rave, and very open about it. Try and share Christ with people, the general attitude is "I'm gonna have fun now while I'm alive. When I die and stand before God, He will forgive me."

Cindy
09-17-2010, 01:44 PM
Catholic stronghold... brujerias, santa muerte... big down here. Married folk and those in *cough* commited relationships having affairs like it's the new rave, and very open about it. Try and share Christ with people, the general attitude is "I'm gonna have fun now while I'm alive. When I die and stand before God, He will forgive me."

That is so sad.

geekette
09-17-2010, 02:24 PM
You mean there are parts with mountains and hills, with green and vibrant colors? :)

HILL COUNTRY ! HILL COUNTRY ! HILL COUNTRY !

And BARBEQUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(former Texan)

Cindy
09-17-2010, 02:42 PM
HILL COUNTRY ! HILL COUNTRY ! HILL COUNTRY !

And BARBEQUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(former Texan)

Yep, had BBQ today for lunch. :thumbsup

Truthseeker
09-17-2010, 02:47 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78CS4-8hKE8

And if you are gonna post clips of our church .. at least post current ones ... what do you guys think of my air guitar at the end of this one??? award winning???

Lord, have mercy.

Mr. Smith
09-17-2010, 03:09 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi-V_ilJu0w&feature=related


These are the comments that I was responding to in the speech in question. I remember making these two specific controversial statements ..

(in regards to him taking the portions WAY out of context)
"Mr. President, you may read the Bible but you have obviously displayed that you lack the intelligence needed to comprehend it."

"Mr. President, if America is NOT a Christian nation ... than why did you feel it necessary to pretend to be one in order to get elected?"


1) He didn't take anything out of context. He made legitimate observations about how many use the bible in radically different ways. Even before I heard the entire statement, I told the person who sent a shortened clip of it, "But if we use the bible to guide the country, who's opinion of the bible are we going to use, the KKK's or Jesse Jackson's?" As it turns out, President Obama made almost the exact observation and it is a completely valid point. I would NEVER want the bible to be used as the absolute measuring stick for our political system. It was never meant to be that. The bible is about redemption, not silly politics.

2) I think the president comprehends it rather well. It's you that I have questions about.

3) President Obama is correct. America is not a Christian nation. It is a Representative Republic and there is absolutely nothing in any of our founding documents identifying The United States of America as a "Christian Nation." You are not allowed to take the religious freedom that has been granted to all citizens of America and apply it only to your religion.

4) Your condescending condemnation of another man's relationship with God is Phariseeical, uncalled for, self-righteous, and worthless. He "pretended" to be a Christian? What, are you also gonna show the video of President Obama claiming he's actually a Muslim? See if possibly YOU can become Christlike and then Let the president worry about himself.

Jermyn Davidson
09-17-2010, 03:18 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi-V_ilJu0w&feature=related


These are the comments that I was responding to in the speech in question. I remember making these two specific controversial statements ..

(in regards to him taking the portions WAY out of context)
"Mr. President, you may read the Bible but you have obviously displayed that you lack the intelligence needed to comprehend it."

"Mr. President, if America is NOT a Christian nation ... than why did you feel it necessary to pretend to be one in order to get elected?"

NEWS FLASH!

America is not a Christian nation!

America is a Christian nation in the same way that you park cars on a parkway.


Saudi Arabia is a Muslim nation.
Iran is a Muslim nation.
Syria is a Muslim nation.

These countries have their NATIONAL IDENTITIES wrapped up in their religion-- in their relationship with their false god.



America has her identity wrapped up in who?

You can't say Jesus, or else you would be lying.

Jermyn Davidson
09-17-2010, 03:28 PM
America may have used Judaeo-Christian values in establishing our system of law, but to say that our founding fathers were saved would be a very hard stretch to even attempt to prove.

So if they weren't saved, were they really Christian?

If your Christianity is vain, are you really a Christian?


"Manifiest Destiny"-- that sure was a Christian way of looking at our land as we took it, sometimes by legitimate war, often illegitimately (I am talking lies and murders, etc.)

Then there is the slavery issue, but our founding fathers ensured that our version of slavery coincided with the Bible right?

WRONG!


To say our nation is a Christian nation is the same to look back at a past, abusive relationship, thinking about the good old days and coming to the conclusion that the abuser wasn't that bad of a person after all.

Jermyn Davidson
09-17-2010, 03:34 PM
GOD has shed HIS GRACE on America-- but not because we are or even were a Christian nation. If GOD shed HIS GRACE on America because we are or were Christian, it would not be GRACE in the first place!


GOD BLESS AMERICA!

GOD CONTINUES TO BLESS AMERICA because of HIS GRACE, HIS KINDNESS, not our good foundation.

Dedicated Mind
09-17-2010, 03:46 PM
Dear Joshua, I apologize for calling you a nutjob. I admire your work for the Lord. What I object to is the church mixing with politics because both parties do good and harm. I believe I was objecting to you speaking for the church in general, since there are many christians who support our president. The video has been taken down so I cannot recall all that is on it, but I support your spritual work and not your political commentary.

Dedicated Mind
09-17-2010, 03:48 PM
if you stand by the video, why don't you repost it?

Jermyn Davidson
09-17-2010, 04:19 PM
if you stand by the video, why don't you repost it?

He did, somewhere within the thread.

Dedicated Mind
09-17-2010, 05:03 PM
He did, somewhere within the thread.

I read through the whole thread. He posted videos but not the original from dan's thread. It has been taken down.

geekette
09-17-2010, 06:57 PM
So where does your church meet these days, Josh? My Google-fu is apparently not working the way it should, because I can't find any information.

canam
09-17-2010, 08:24 PM
see post 157

pelathais
09-17-2010, 08:33 PM
for what?

CC1
09-17-2010, 10:42 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi-V_ilJu0w&feature=related


These are the comments that I was responding to in the speech in question. I remember making these two specific controversial statements ..

(in regards to him taking the portions WAY out of context)
"Mr. President, you may read the Bible but you have obviously displayed that you lack the intelligence needed to comprehend it."

"Mr. President, if America is NOT a Christian nation ... than why did you feel it necessary to pretend to be one in order to get elected?"

Joshua, I don't know you from Adam. Have never even heard your name before. Don't know how much I agree with you about many things but I do agree with you in your remarks about our President and his misrepresentation of the role of Christianity in the history of America.

I am not one of those who believe he is secretly Muslim (I am not much of a conspiracy theorist like some on AFF) however it is clear he became a Christian and attended that large radical church in Chicago in order to have influence as a community organizer. I can't recall who it was but actually saw an interview in 2008 where a Chicago leader talked about telling Obama he needed to do this if he wanted to succeed.

AmericanAngel
09-18-2010, 07:59 AM
:bliss WOW! WELCOME BRO JOSHUA!
You are a breath of fresh air! :thumbsup:yourock:ty2:welcome:welcome2
I usually LURK....:aaa:couch
I acually read this entire thread! :nod

Please be welcome to stick around....

I want to add u to my friends list and I will look u up on FB!

joshua
09-18-2010, 10:32 AM
Wow! I came to AFF expecting to find a million enemies ... little did I know that we would all become one big Brady bunch! lol Thank you American Angel ... I appreciate the warm welcome.

joshua
09-18-2010, 10:33 AM
Geekette ... we meet at Chandler Center for the Arts @ 10:45 AM on Sunday mornings. :)

Sister Alvear
09-18-2010, 10:39 AM
I have not read the thread...however welcome to the forum...

deadeye
09-18-2010, 10:52 AM
Hey Joshua....you and CP ever going to tie the knot????

Cindy
09-18-2010, 11:22 AM
Geekette ... we meet at Chandler Center for the Arts @ 10:45 AM on Sunday mornings. :)

Is your avatar photo a recent picture of you? If so, you're just a kid.:)

joshua
09-18-2010, 11:54 AM
deadeye: CP and I ended our relationship 3 months ago ... lol ... however we are still close friends and we are excited to be welcoming her to our church as our new worship leader. :)

joshua
09-18-2010, 11:55 AM
Yes Cindy ... I am still a kid ... :) 29 years old.

Truthseeker
09-18-2010, 12:06 PM
Joshua

Whats your church website?

joshua
09-18-2010, 12:30 PM
www.theepicenter.tv

its a bit outdated .. still has up pictures of our old building and prayer center .. neither is it in flash yet ... but have fun :)

joshua
09-18-2010, 12:37 PM
http://www.youtube.com/user/shockwavTV#p/a/u/0/kVw7p7lESa4

You can probably get a better feel for our church on SHOCKWAVTV .. our youtube channel.

Jermyn Davidson
09-18-2010, 01:10 PM
NEWS FLASH!



America is a Christian nation in the same way that you park cars on a parkway.


Saudi Arabia is a Muslim nation.
Iran is a Muslim nation.
Syria is a Muslim nation.

These countries have their NATIONAL IDENTITIES wrapped up in their religion-- in their relationship with their false god.



America has her identity wrapped up in who?

You can't say Jesus, or else you would be lying.


You can probably get a better feel for our church on SHOCKWAVTV .. our youtube channel.



Joshua,

I am one of the folks who criticized your mesage, though I don't think I ever criticized you as a person or your Christian works.


I have reposted one of my more recent responses to your thoughts. If you have a chance, please respond.


I am glad you are here on AFF.

Truthseeker
09-18-2010, 03:56 PM
Joshua

Is the church a former UPC church? And who was pastor before you?

Justin
09-18-2010, 08:21 PM
Wow! I came to AFF expecting to find a million enemies ... little did I know that we would all become one big Brady bunch! lol Thank you American Angel ... I appreciate the warm welcome.

Why would you think that?

joshua
09-18-2010, 09:49 PM
Truthseeker: I didnt' take over for anybody ... or split anybody else's church ... I planted this church about 2 years ago w/ 5 people ... God did the rest.

Justin: I originally found AFF based on a google search of my name and a less than friendly thread about me. :)

Jason B
09-19-2010, 06:18 PM
and your debit card number, PIN, and thee digit code on the back

Sam, are using using the 1611 KJV Visa, man you are old :ursofunny

Jason B
09-19-2010, 06:23 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi-V_ilJu0w&feature=related


These are the comments that I was responding to in the speech in question. I remember making these two specific controversial statements ..

(in regards to him taking the portions WAY out of context)
"Mr. President, you may read the Bible but you have obviously displayed that you lack the intelligence needed to comprehend it."

"Mr. President, if America is NOT a Christian nation ... than why did you feel it necessary to pretend to be one in order to get elected?"
Amen

Sam
09-19-2010, 06:42 PM
Sam, are using using the 1611 KJV Visa, man you are old :ursofunny

OK, you got me :ursofunny
and I try to watch my spelling.

Someone told me about 12 years ago, "You are so old that when God said, 'Let there be light,' you were the one that flipped the switch."

Apocrypha
09-19-2010, 06:53 PM
Truthseeker: I didnt' take over for anybody ... or split anybody else's church ... I planted this church about 2 years ago w/ 5 people ... God did the rest.

Justin: I originally found AFF based on a google search of my name and a less than friendly thread about me. :)

AFF is a open forum, we have nice folks and mean folks, but alot of the mean folks went to the private preachers forums where they can drip acid in private about "Apostates Friends Forum" as one young ultra-con brother called it recently on facebook.


Many of us are ministers and most of us have many things in common with you if you went the independent route. There is alot of friendship and fellowship to be had here if you look at it more as a "chamber of commerce" of ideas and experiences rather than a party line forum where folks must agree on everything.

There is ALOT of intellectual firepower on here, so much so that most folks who can't defend what they teach right, left or center tend to either come to deeper truth or log off for good and talk bad about others.

Welcome to AFF.

Here are some great ways to meet others similar to yourself..

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/group.php?gid=134074153283333&ref=ts

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/group.php?gid=69818818760&ref=ts

GraceAmazing
09-19-2010, 09:42 PM
Wow...this thread is a great commercial for Epicenter ;)

Welcome to AFF!

And I here I thought this was another thread about Joe Hunt...LOL!

Maximilian
09-19-2010, 10:25 PM
Amen

Jason, surprised you would support comments that question another man's faith and commitment.

Jason B
09-19-2010, 10:29 PM
Jason, surprised you would support comments that question another man's faith and commitment.

I don't question the mans faith based on the comments of another poster, but rather based on the deeds of the one who claims the faith.

Maximilian
09-19-2010, 10:32 PM
I don't question the mans faith based on the comments of another poster, but rather based on the deeds of the one who claims the faith.

What deeds/things he's done that make you question his sincerity about Jesus? (I don't know anything about his faith, and am not insisting either way, btw)

Jason B
09-19-2010, 11:06 PM
What deeds/things he's done that make you question his sincerity about Jesus? (I don't know anything about his faith, and am not insisting either way, btw)

Personally, I think what makes me question his Christianity is how he carries himself, how he's shrouded with such slimeball associations, how hes continuosly untruthful, how he favors muslim countires and seemingly the muslim faith, going so far as to tell the Egyptians America is the largest muslim country in the world, as though it were a feather in his cap. He is arrogant, his family life seems to be filled with luxary (michelle has how many personal assistants?)

He seems drunken with power, he doesn't attend church, and when He did it was for years with a wacko pastor who blamed from the pulpit the government for 9-11, for the spread of AIDS among black, and used God's name in vain. His pro abortion policy was amongst his highest priorities when taking office. In an interview during the elections he had a slip of tounge in response to a question about his faith he said "my MUSLIM faith" He did correct himself, but I find it hard to believe that a christian would confuse their faith. If someone asks me about my faith, I'm not going to accidently say "my MORMON faith, or my WICCAN faith, or my HINDU faith", come on.

I wll say I do believe that Obama considers himself a Christian, but so does Jeremiah Wright, so does the entire homosexual denomination of Metropolitan commutiy church or whatevers its called. So did the branch dividians, so did Jim Jones followers. Alot of folks call themselves Christian, doesn't make it any more true than someone claiming the moon is made out of cheese. Let them claim what they will, but we will know them by their fruits, according to Jesus, who also said "why do you call me Lord, and do not do the things I say?" If someones life lack evidence of the Soverign Lordship of Jesus Christ, and an active obedience to the Word of God, then I have a real question about their claim of Chrsitianity.

Personally, do I hate Obama? No, I bet he's a decent guy, but I don't like him as a president, and I don't believe He's a christian, at least in the Biblical/Salvational sense of the word. All of my comments are made with the admission that I do not know the hearts of men, and God will judge Obama, not me. I am simply sharing my OPINIONS based on the things I have seen and heard from Obama.

Maximilian
09-20-2010, 12:06 AM
Personally, I think what makes me question his Christianity is how he carries himself, how he's shrouded with such slimeball associations, how hes continuosly untruthful, how he favors muslim countires and seemingly the muslim faith, going so far as to tell the Egyptians America is the largest muslim country in the world, as though it were a feather in his cap. He is arrogant, his family life seems to be filled with luxary (michelle has how many personal assistants?)

He seems drunken with power, he doesn't attend church, and when He did it was for years with a wacko pastor who blamed from the pulpit the government for 9-11, for the spread of AIDS among black, and used God's name in vain. His pro abortion policy was amongst his highest priorities when taking office. In an interview during the elections he had a slip of tounge in response to a question about his faith he said "my MUSLIM faith" He did correct himself, but I find it hard to believe that a christian would confuse their faith. If someone asks me about my faith, I'm not going to accidently say "my MORMON faith, or my WICCAN faith, or my HINDU faith", come on.

I wll say I do believe that Obama considers himself a Christian, but so does Jeremiah Wright, so does the entire homosexual denomination of Metropolitan commutiy church or whatevers its called. So did the branch dividians, so did Jim Jones followers. Alot of folks call themselves Christian, doesn't make it any more true than someone claiming the moon is made out of cheese. Let them claim what they will, but we will know them by their fruits, according to Jesus, who also said "why do you call me Lord, and do not do the things I say?" If someones life lack evidence of the Soverign Lordship of Jesus Christ, and an active obedience to the Word of God, then I have a real question about their claim of Chrsitianity.

Personally, do I hate Obama? No, I bet he's a decent guy, but I don't like him as a president, and I don't believe He's a christian, at least in the Biblical/Salvational sense of the word. All of my comments are made with the admission that I do not know the hearts of men, and God will judge Obama, not me. I am simply sharing my OPINIONS based on the things I have seen and heard from Obama.

Oh wow. Hope to engage with you on this later this week...

DAII
09-20-2010, 07:41 AM
Jason, sounds like you're speculating.

coadie
09-20-2010, 08:48 AM
What deeds/things he's done that make you question his sincerity about Jesus? (I don't know anything about his faith, and am not insisting either way, btw)

Recently, when Obama was interviewed by Rick Warren, Obama told Warren that Jesus Christ was his Lord and Savior. Yet this “banner” Obama raises is one that has an inter-spiritual foundation, representing a new kind of “Christianity,” one that looks more like Brian McLaren’s spirituality than traditional, biblical Christianity.

What emerges from this book is a glimpse of a man who has New Age philosophy, believing that other religions are legitimate paths to God, and all humanity is connected together (spiritually speaking – i.e., God is in all):

“Obama does clearly believe that the form of Christianity that he committed to at Trinity Church in 1985 is not the only path to God. ‘I am rooted in the Christian tradition,’ he has said. Nevertheless he asserts, ‘I believe there are many paths to the same place and that is a belief there is a higher power, a belief that we are connected as a people.’
“He first saw his broad embrace of faith modeled by his mother. ‘In our household,” he has explained, ‘The Bible, [t]he Koran, and the Bhagavad Gita sat on the shelf … on Easter or Christmas Day my mother might drag me to a church, just as she dragged me to the Buddhist temple, the Chinese New Year celebration, the Shinto shrine, and ancient Hawaiian burial sites.’” (p.55 of Mansfield’s book, quoting from Audacity of Hope, Obama, p. 203).

After his inter-spiritually-based upbringing, Obama later spent twenty years in a church, which promotes the panenthestic (God in all), inter-spiritual approach. In a 2006 article in United Church News, Obama stated that the teachings of the UCC (United Church of Christ), of which he was a member (Trinity United Church of Christ) until recently, are “foundation stones for his political work.” Just what are those “teachings” comprised of? On Trinity’s website, on the Yoga page, the following statement is highlighted:

“Within each [of] us is the seed of Divinity. Each Soul is divine. I bow to the divinity in us all!”
This is classic Hinduism that teaches that divinity resides in every human being. It is also the message of the New Age movement — man’s divinity!

To be interspiritual (all paths lead to God), to be panentheistic (divinity is in all), to reject God’s Word, and to embrace mysticism is to be what Alice Bailey called a rejuvenated Christian, who is one who follows “another gospel” and “another Jesus” (II Corinthians 11:4).

“Jesus saith unto him, ‘I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.’” (John 14:6)

Oprah shares his god is in everything and everyone religion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrfThgaksPI&feature=player_embedded#!

Obama and the social justice sermon. God will judge people. The social justice agenda is to get even and not wait on God to deal justices.

Mr. Smith
09-20-2010, 09:32 AM
Jason, surprised you would support comments that question another man's faith and commitment.



Jason has done a good bit of this lately and I'm disappointed. Very disappointed.

Truthseeker
09-20-2010, 09:37 AM
Oprah shares his god is in everything and everyone religion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrfThgaksPI&feature=player_embedded#!

Obama and the social justice sermon. God will judge people. The social justice agenda is to get even and not wait on God to deal justices.

That's some sick stuff. I can't help but wonder if he has tendencies or past experiences.

tstew
09-20-2010, 09:52 AM
Personally, I think what makes me question his Christianity is how he carries himself, how he's shrouded with such slimeball associations, how hes continuosly untruthful, how he favors muslim countires and seemingly the muslim faith, going so far as to tell the Egyptians America is the largest muslim country in the world, as though it were a feather in his cap. He is arrogant, his family life seems to be filled with luxary (michelle has how many personal assistants?)

He seems drunken with power, he doesn't attend church, and when He did it was for years with a wacko pastor who blamed from the pulpit the government for 9-11, for the spread of AIDS among black, and used God's name in vain. His pro abortion policy was amongst his highest priorities when taking office. In an interview during the elections he had a slip of tounge in response to a question about his faith he said "my MUSLIM faith" He did correct himself, but I find it hard to believe that a christian would confuse their faith. If someone asks me about my faith, I'm not going to accidently say "my MORMON faith, or my WICCAN faith, or my HINDU faith", come on.

I wll say I do believe that Obama considers himself a Christian, but so does Jeremiah Wright, so does the entire homosexual denomination of Metropolitan commutiy church or whatevers its called. So did the branch dividians, so did Jim Jones followers. Alot of folks call themselves Christian, doesn't make it any more true than someone claiming the moon is made out of cheese. Let them claim what they will, but we will know them by their fruits, according to Jesus, who also said "why do you call me Lord, and do not do the things I say?" If someones life lack evidence of the Soverign Lordship of Jesus Christ, and an active obedience to the Word of God, then I have a real question about their claim of Chrsitianity.

Personally, do I hate Obama? No, I bet he's a decent guy, but I don't like him as a president, and I don't believe He's a christian, at least in the Biblical/Salvational sense of the word. All of my comments are made with the admission that I do not know the hearts of men, and God will judge Obama, not me. I am simply sharing my OPINIONS based on the things I have seen and heard from Obama.
I can appreciate what I bolded and agree. My question is how many of our politicians both past and present, Republican or Democrat, do you feel are christian in the Biblical/Salvational sense of the word?

I just get so tired of people acting like Democrats have the market cornered on immorality and ungodliness in spite of every sign that says otherwise.

DrPhil
09-20-2010, 10:15 AM
Joshua. Good to see you on here. I too pastor a spirit-filled non-denom church. I too have a UPC background. I too am a fan of my heritage, but was definitely called to leave it. I really enjoyed looking at the clips of your services. Feel free to check us out at www.ccc-si.com. I did not plant our church. Our church is 90 years old and I just celebrated 17 years as their pastor. They have been out of the UPC since 1969. We have a wonderful history and a great future as you do. I was 29 when I started. Don't let anybody despise your youth. Keep up the good work and stay in fellowship my friend. Feel free to contact me. I can already tell I could learn a lot from you. Blessings my friend.

Truthseeker
09-20-2010, 10:43 AM
I can appreciate what I bolded and agree. My question is how many of our politicians both past and present, Republican or Democrat, do you feel are christian in the Biblical/Salvational sense of the word?

I just get so tired of people acting like Democrats have the market cornered on immorality and ungodliness in spite of every sign that says otherwise.

Isn't that the truth.

Truthseeker
09-20-2010, 10:45 AM
Joshua. Good to see you on here. I too pastor a spirit-filled non-denom church. I too have a UPC background. I too am a fan of my heritage, but was definitely called to leave it. I really enjoyed looking at the clips of your services. Feel free to check us out at www.ccc-si.com. I did not plant our church. Our church is 90 years old and I just celebrated 17 years as their pastor. They have been out of the UPC since 1969. We have a wonderful history and a great future as you do. I was 29 when I started. Don't let anybody despise your youth. Keep up the good work and stay in fellowship my friend. Feel free to contact me. I can already tell I could learn a lot from you. Blessings my friend.

You guys rock out too?

DrPhil
09-20-2010, 10:47 AM
We are definitely have contemporary worship, but we have one of those unique churches that ranges from six months to 90 years old. We are probably a little less edgy, but I loved what I saw on their videos.

joshua
09-20-2010, 10:52 AM
Lol ... our "worship services" are not that edgy .. that was an outreach we did on a Friday night. Something tells me our churches are probably pretty similar DrPhil ... I checked out your website ... loving what I see!!!
In regards to our age range ... lol ... I think our oldest member is in her late 70's ... but we are pretty much 1 - 65 ... with a majority of our congregation being between 30-55!!!
When I first planted the church I just assumed, as a then 27 year old, that the age range would vary between 18 - 35 ... boooy was I wrong!!! God started bringing in people twice my age ... but they became a great foundation on which to plant this church.

coadie
09-20-2010, 10:59 AM
That's some sick stuff. I can't help but wonder if he has tendencies or past experiences.

Larry Sinclair has posted on that issue at length.
He leaves a trail of blocking information and cover up.

coadie
09-20-2010, 11:02 AM
Lol ... our "worship services" are not that edgy .. that was an outreach we did on a Friday night. Something tells me our churches are probably pretty similar DrPhil ... I checked out your website ... loving what I see!!!
In regards to our age range ... lol ... I think our oldest member is in her late 70's ... but we are pretty much 1 - 65 ... with a majority of our congregation being between 30-55!!!
When I first planted the church I just assumed, as a then 27 year old, that the age range would vary between 18 - 35 ... boooy was I wrong!!! God started bringing in people twice my age ... but they became a great foundation on which to plant this church.

Is there a need to be "edgy"?

joshua
09-20-2010, 11:08 AM
I dont know ... is there a need to be "dull"?

Truthseeker
09-20-2010, 12:44 PM
I dont know ... is there a need to be "dull"?

Dull is holy, edgy is worldly!! ;)

Sam
09-20-2010, 02:30 PM
...
Personally, do I hate Obama? No, I bet he's a decent guy, ...


Decent guy? don't bet too much on that!!!!

After the way he has swum in the Chicago political sewer system?
the secrecy about areas in his past life?
his citizenship/passport that got him into Pakistan?
his associates?
his political appointments?
his lies about how transparent his government would be?
his support of an anti-American racist like the Rev. Jeremiah Wright?
etc?

Sam
09-20-2010, 02:34 PM
...
I just get so tired of people acting like Democrats have the market cornered on immorality and ungodliness in spite of every sign that says otherwise.

I wouldn't say that Democrats or Republicans have the market cornered on immorality or ungodliness or sleaze. There are a lot of rotten apples in both barrels.

But,
the Democratic Party is the party of
Hollywood and the Media
Abortion
Homosexuality
Unions
Redistribution of Wealth
Top heavy and intrusive government

tstew
09-20-2010, 02:49 PM
I wouldn't say that Democrats or Republicans have the market cornered on immorality or ungodliness or sleaze. There are a lot of rotten apples in both barrels.

But,
the Democratic Party is the party of
Hollywood and the Media
Abortion
Homosexuality
Unions
Redistribution of Wealth
Top heavy and intrusive government

I guess I just see far too little distinction between how things are done even in those areas regardless of who is power. Either way, I don't want to sidetrack the thread. I've said my piece more than enough on AFF. LOL

Maximilian
09-20-2010, 03:12 PM
Decent guy? don't bet too much on that!!!!

After the way he has swum in the Chicago political sewer system?
the secrecy about areas in his past life?
his citizenship/passport that got him into Pakistan?
his associates?
his political appointments?
his lies about how transparent his government would be?
his support of an anti-American racist like the Rev. Jeremiah Wright?
etc?

Sam sounds like he knows BO personally.

Maximilian
09-20-2010, 03:17 PM
I wouldn't say that Democrats or Republicans have the market cornered on immorality or ungodliness or sleaze. There are a lot of rotten apples in both barrels.

But,
the Democratic Party is the party of
Hollywood and the Media
Abortion
Homosexuality
Unions
Redistribution of Wealth
Top heavy and intrusive government

Hollywood and the Media? Okay, FoxNews, Talk Radio and Blogs on the Repub side.

Abortion? That's one way of putting it. Of course, that excludes the MANY Republicans (and Libertarians) who, though personally seeing/viewing abortion as immoral, legally see no grounds for Federal Governement involvement to the contrary. Including Mitt Romney who adjusted his position when running for POTUS.

Homosexuality? So that's what it is, Dems are FOR homosexuality and Repub hate gays? See how you frame a position says plenty. Many Dems aren't FOR homosexuality, they, however, interpret the law in ways that agree discrimination against someone for their sin is not lawful. But you say they are FOR homosexuality.

Unions? Okay, I agree. And the Repubs have their own line of special interest, Corporate Lobbyists with enough zeroes and dollar signs to more than compete with Unions.

Redistribution of Wealth? What a lop-sided view and blanket general statement about all Democrats.

Sam, don't stop being a thinker, my friend. Don't kid yourself that there are "bad guys" and "good guys" in politics.

Maximilian
09-20-2010, 03:18 PM
I guess I just see far too little distinction between how things are done even in those areas regardless of who is power. Either way, I don't want to sidetrack the thread. I've said my piece more than enough on AFF. LOL

I agree, tstew.

joshua
09-20-2010, 03:46 PM
Joshua,

I am one of the folks who criticized your mesage, though I don't think I ever criticized you as a person or your Christian works.


I have reposted one of my more recent responses to your thoughts. If you have a chance, please respond.


I am glad you are here on AFF.

Jermyn ... if you had listened in the speech you would have heard me base my arguments on two schools of thought ...
1. The birth of America and it's early Christian principles and leaders which led to God being included within our Constitution and even paid homage to on our currency.
2. I also gave a statistic from the last census which stated that 70%+ Americans claimed Christianity ... if we live in a democracy/republic than majority rules ... therefore being that a majority of Americans claim Christianity (whether they live it or not) we are by virtue of declaration a Christian nation.

I have nothing against you either brother. I pray God richly blesses you.

Maximilian
09-20-2010, 03:52 PM
Jermyn ... if you had listened in the speech you would have heard me base my arguments on two schools of thought ...
1. The birth of America and it's early Christian principles and leaders which led to God being included within our Constitution and even paid homage to on our currency.
2. I also gave a statistic from the last census which stated that 70%+ Americans claimed Christianity ... if we live in a democracy/republic than majority rules ... therefore being that a majority of Americans claim Christianity (whether they live it or not) we are by virtue of declaration a Christian nation.

I have nothing against you either brother. I pray God richly blesses you.

Joshua, homage was paid to God on the currency, not specifically Jesus Christ -- a great distinction.

Joshua, by "claiming Christianity" this is far from 70% being evangelical born-again Christians. Most that "claim" Christian rather "identify" with it, but are probably more philosophically a spiritualists. The age of a homogenous Western culture where it's supposed all are Christians has passed. Christianity today greets suspicion.

pelathais
09-20-2010, 04:36 PM
Jermyn ... if you had listened in the speech you would have heard me base my arguments on two schools of thought ...
1. The birth of America and it's early Christian principles and leaders which led to God being included within our Constitution and even paid homage to on our currency.

Our founders were largely Deists whose faith and beliefs would be found quite incompatible with modern forms of Fundamentalism. The Treaty of Tripoli (1797) specifically states that the United States is not "in any sense founded on the Christian religion."

That was the view of our founders.


2. I also gave a statistic from the last census which stated that 70%+ Americans claimed Christianity ... if we live in a democracy/republic than majority rules ... therefore being that a majority of Americans claim Christianity (whether they live it or not) we are by virtue of declaration a Christian nation.

I have nothing against you either brother. I pray God richly blesses you.

Except that no such official "Declaration" has ever been made. In our culture we are (I hope!) Christian, though we obviously fall far short of most people's ideal of a "Christian culture." At best, I think, we might be called a "Nation of Christians" - or at least a nation largely composed of Christians.

Our government was specifically designed, however, to be Secular. The memories of the Religious Wars of Europe were still quite fresh in everyone's mind back then.

I missed the hoopla that apparently raised your ire, Josh. I pray that all is well with you and your ministry.

Jermyn Davidson
09-20-2010, 05:08 PM
Jermyn ... if you had listened in the speech you would have heard me base my arguments on two schools of thought ...
1. The birth of America and it's early Christian principles and leaders which led to God being included within our Constitution and even paid homage to on our currency.
2. I also gave a statistic from the last census which stated that 70%+ Americans claimed Christianity ... if we live in a democracy/republic than majority rules ... therefore being that a majority of Americans claim Christianity (whether they live it or not) we are by virtue of declaration a Christian nation.

I have nothing against you either brother. I pray God richly blesses you.


You may have based your arguments on those two "schools" of thought, but there are other, much stronger indicators of a nation's identity being wrapped in Jesus Christ.

Your schools would include them, and 62% of Americans as Christians, but what about our theology?


Which God did they subscribe to? Were most of our founding fathers convinced that Jesus Christ was THE only WAY? I think there was a reason they left God as ambiguous as they did. From the looks of our history, there would be a strong argument for the idea that their god had nothing to do with the founding of America.


If only some of the folks who use stats like you ref'd in par. 2 actually believed these "Christian" folks were saved, then I may buy into the idea that based on a simple majority, America is a Christian nation.

Then I wonder, did these same polls attempt to identify what the term, "Christian" means to them....



Saudi Arabia is a Muslim nation.

America is a nation with Christians, but we're not a Christian nation.

Mr. Smith
09-20-2010, 06:16 PM
Jermyn ... if you had listened in the speech you would have heard me base my arguments on two schools of thought ...
1. The birth of America and it's early Christian principles and leaders which led to God being included within our Constitution and even paid homage to on our currency.
2. I also gave a statistic from the last census which stated that 70%+ Americans claimed Christianity ... if we live in a democracy/republic than majority rules ... therefore being that a majority of Americans claim Christianity (whether they live it or not) we are by virtue of declaration a Christian nation.

I have nothing against you either brother. I pray God richly blesses you.


When people talk about The United States of America being founded as a "Christian Nation", I would love to post my arguments but I start laughing so hard at such idiotic statements that I end up with so many tears in my eyes that I can't see the keyboard. If I'm able to settle down, I'll join in the argument.

Your second point......you're kidding, right? You must be. Where in the world did you assemble THAT logic???

DrPhil
09-20-2010, 08:17 PM
Lol ... our "worship services" are not that edgy .. that was an outreach we did on a Friday night. Something tells me our churches are probably pretty similar DrPhil ... I checked out your website ... loving what I see!!!
In regards to our age range ... lol ... I think our oldest member is in her late 70's ... but we are pretty much 1 - 65 ... with a majority of our congregation being between 30-55!!!
When I first planted the church I just assumed, as a then 27 year old, that the age range would vary between 18 - 35 ... boooy was I wrong!!! God started bringing in people twice my age ... but they became a great foundation on which to plant this church.

I wasn't making a value judgement. We can be edgy at times too-new wine in new wineskins. A great church to check out is Love and Truth church in Jacksonville TN. The pastor's wife is Sherri and she responded to you in an earlier thread. I celebrate what you are doing. I'm looking forward to getting to know you better.

I am personally pretty careful about the political stuff. Our church is really growing in diversity and our Africans and African Americans tend to see politics different because of their world view. I watched the results with a room full of Africans who were crying when O'bama won. I have no idea what it must have meant for a black person to have one of their race attain to arguably the highest office in the world. I was cheering for McCain but after the election they had me lead them in prayer for our new President. He has been very disappointing to me and I'm really hoping the mid term elections put us back on a better path. Ultimately, however, I don't have much confidence in solving the worlds problesm. Judgement begins in the house of the Lord and until America turns back to God I'm afraid all of our political parties will disappoint us. I'm not criticizing your approach, I just know it wouldn't work where I am.

joshua
09-20-2010, 08:43 PM
DrPhil ... :) there was never any offense taken!!! In regards to the Obama post ... I would have responded whether or not it was Obama or George Bush that (as I felt) mocked and ridiculed the Scripture. I don't play the political game ... in fact, I forego my right as an American to vote simply so that nobody can ever say I am choosing sides!
Our church is made up predominately of minorities ... plus I preach a lot in the COGIC and PAW organizations ... therefore I understand the fear of polarizing African Americans ... you have to use A LOT of wisdom in the way you approach certain subjects .. however, these people know my heart and that I only speak truth in love!
I am really looking forward to meeting you in the very near future!! I can tell I am really going to enjoy our time together.

Jermyn Davidson
09-21-2010, 01:46 PM
Joshua,

May God richly bless you and your family as well.

I guess we will simply agree to disagree.

DrPhil
09-23-2010, 07:15 AM
DrPhil ... :) there was never any offense taken!!! In regards to the Obama post ... I would have responded whether or not it was Obama or George Bush that (as I felt) mocked and ridiculed the Scripture. I don't play the political game ... in fact, I forego my right as an American to vote simply so that nobody can ever say I am choosing sides!
Our church is made up predominately of minorities ... plus I preach a lot in the COGIC and PAW organizations ... therefore I understand the fear of polarizing African Americans ... you have to use A LOT of wisdom in the way you approach certain subjects .. however, these people know my heart and that I only speak truth in love!
I am really looking forward to meeting you in the very near future!! I can tell I am really going to enjoy our time together.

I really enjloyed visiting with you about your vision. I think I could use your help getting a little more "techy" in reaching our present generation. We have recently received an influx of college students from Southern Illinois University. I'm afraid I suffer a little from the John McCain syndrome who hadn't figured out how to text when Obama was texting, tweeting, and facebooking his way into the hearts of young Americans. I hope we can get together soon. Blessings my new friend!

DAII
09-23-2010, 10:28 AM
I wasn't making a value judgement. We can be edgy at times too-new wine in new wineskins. A great church to check out is Love and Truth church in Jacksonville TN. The pastor's wife is Sherri and she responded to you in an earlier thread. I celebrate what you are doing. I'm looking forward to getting to know you better.

I am personally pretty careful about the political stuff. Our church is really growing in diversity and our Africans and African Americans tend to see politics different because of their world view. I watched the results with a room full of Africans who were crying when O'bama won. I have no idea what it must have meant for a black person to have one of their race attain to arguably the highest office in the world. I was cheering for McCain but after the election they had me lead them in prayer for our new President. He has been very disappointing to me and I'm really hoping the mid term elections put us back on a better path. Ultimately, however, I don't have much confidence in solving the worlds problesm. Judgement begins in the house of the Lord and until America turns back to God I'm afraid all of our political parties will disappoint us. I'm not criticizing your approach, I just know it wouldn't work where I am. Great advice.