Ministry in A Post-Organizational World

[Charnock]

Consider what is asked of a young minister in the UPC.

First, when he feels a call to preach, he is told to attend an unaccredited UPC Bible College. He is asked to pay thousands of dollars (around 20k) to earn a theological or ministerial degree which is as worthless as the paper it's printed on.

As time progresses, and he attempts to earn a living while fulfilling his calling, he finds that 1) very few ministers are full time and, 2) secular employers have no desire to hire a worker with an unaccredited theological or ministerial degree.

This creates frustration, and a feeling of betrayal.

Later, as he becomes increasingly uncomfortable in his home church, and wants to branch out on his own, 1) his pastor will tell him that it is not God's will, 2) his pastor will give him a bit more string but still maintain control, 3) he will branch out on his own with absolutely no financial support.

In all of these situations he is asked to foot the bill entirely. He receives little to no support. All while he becomes increasingly aware of theological inconsistencies within the movement he serves.

[rgcraig]

Go to the mission field - they are handsomely taken care of!

[Charnock]

Why become licensed with the UPC? I would really like to hear stories from ministers who have left the organization, and others who chose other licensing options.

Why did you leave? Why did you choose not to join?

Anyone here who believes there are still great opportunities for ministers within the org?

[Charnock]

Go to the mission field - they are handsomely taken care of!

ROFL

[Praxeas]

Go to the mission field - they are handsomely taken care of!
Yep, according to one poster...

[Praxeas]

BTW you don't have to go to bible college to be a preacher or have a license. It's an independent decision for that person if he wants to increase his theological education to attend such a school

[MissBrattified]

I'm sure many young ministers are disheartened when they face the gritty reality of ministry, rather than the ideals they once held.

There are things in the system (UPCI) that need to be repaired, but IMO things have improved dramatically over the years on all fronts. Especially in regard to educational opportunities. I would say that bible college is profitable for young men and women who are "studying to show themselves approved" even if the secular world thinks it's wasted time and doesn't recognize the degree as valuable. A young woman from our church graduated from IBC last year and she and her new husband are now missionaries in the Philippines. While the world might not see value in that, I would say that her Bible College experience may have contributed to her life course, and was therefore profitable.

The only way to change a system of government is to speak up and *lobby* for your cause. Otherwise, you have to just hope someone else will broach the subject for you and suffer in silence. However, no organization is fully to blame for the struggles of ministry. Men and women struggle in ministry because dealing with people and life is simply frustrating and troublesome.

The trick is to not judge yourself and your accomplishments by secular standards.

At this point in my life, I would like to go back to college. However, I have three children at home who need me, and I'm not willing to sacrifice their happiness for mine. Sometimes I feel inadequate because I didn't finish college, but I realize that taking care of my husband, home and children is valuable in God's eyes and I can pursue my education later when my priorities have shifted. By the world's standards, I'm just another SAHM, rather than an *esteemed member of the world's workforce*. If I were to dwell on that and let other folks' opinions lend me value, then it might bother me. It's my job to focus on what God expects of me and let His opinions be the ones that count.

Underestimating quiet, diligent contributions over the course of a lifetime is something the world does; not God.

As for the culpability of the UPCI (or the ALJC/WPF/etc.) in the discouragement of ministers; I'm sure many things could be changed for the better, but the complaints have to be directed to the right people who are in the position to change things. (Other than for venting purposes, of course. ;))

[Aquila]

Why become licensed with the UPC? I would really like to hear stories from ministers who have left the organization, and others who chose other licensing options.

Why did you leave? Why did you choose not to join?

Anyone here who believes there are still great opportunities for ministers within the org?

Why persue a license at all? One's "calling" is one's life. It's not a vocation or accredidation. The Kingdom of God is far different than the kingdom of man.

[Brad Murphy]

A young woman from our church graduated from IBC last year and she and her new husband are now missionaries in the Philippines.

I honestly don't get all of the missionary work in the Philippines... I'm there right now on business and it seems that the population at large is more "Christian" than the US. In fact, they did the Lord's Prayer over the loudspeaker at the SM Megamall at noon the other day. Of course everyone seems to be Catholic, but if Pentecostals want to convert Catholics, couldn't they do that in the US? ;)

[MissBrattified]

I honestly don't get all of the missionary work in the Philippines... I'm there right now on business and it seems that the population at large is more "Christian" than the US. In fact, they did the Lord's Prayer over the loudspeaker at the SM Megamall at noon the other day. Of course everyone seems to be Catholic, but if Pentecostals want to convert Catholics, couldn't they do that in the US? ;)

I suppose people should go where they feel God has called them. If God calls someone to another country, and the conditions there are below what we are used to, then I think their sacrifice should be appreciated. Also, it would seem obvious that conditions in metro areas may be somewhat better than those in villages and more remote areas.

There's a lot of persecution of Christians in some parts of the Philippines--did you know that? (Including the area where these young people are stationed.)

--Source (http://www.idop.org/map.pdf)

--Source2 (http://www.persecution.com/public/restrictednations.aspx?clickfrom=bWFpbl9tZW51)

From Persecution.com regarding the Mindanao region:

"Persecution of Christians is increasingly common. Islamic terrorists are believed to be responsible for several bombings in train stations, buses and other areas in Mindanao. The terrorists believe killing a Christian will get them into heaven. In August 2009, Christian villages were attacked and burned. Churches and houses throughout the region have been burned and worshipers harassed. An 18-year-old Christian boy was kidnapped, tortured and killed as a warning to other Christians."

[Brad Murphy]

I suppose people should go where they feel God has called them. If God calls someone to another country, and the conditions there are below what we are used to, then I think their sacrifice should be appreciated. Also, it would seem obvious that conditions in metro areas may be somewhat better than those in villages and more remote areas.

There's a lot of persecution of Christians in some parts of the Philippines--did you know that? (Including the area where these young people are stationed.)

--Source (http://www.idop.org/map.pdf)

--Source2 (http://www.persecution.com/public/restrictednations.aspx?clickfrom=bWFpbl9tZW51)

From Persecution.com regarding the Mindanao region:

"Persecution of Christians is increasingly common. Islamic terrorists are believed to be responsible for several bombings in train stations, buses and other areas in Mindanao. The terrorists believe killing a Christian will get them into heaven. In August 2009, Christian villages were attacked and burned. Churches and houses throughout the region have been burned and worshipers harassed. An 18-year-old Christian boy was kidnapped, tortured and killed as a warning to other Christians."

I'm not being critical, I just think it's ironic that I encounter more religion here than I do at home. The outlying areas do show the issues more so than the metro-areas... but none as bad as what I saw in India (I will never forget that experience).

I do recall someone getting a call to the mission field in Ireland a couple of years ago... I have to admit I was rolling my eyes at that one.... I was thinking Tuscany myself. lol.

[TJJJ]

Why become licensed with the UPC? I would really like to hear stories from ministers who have left the organization, and others who chose other licensing options.

Why did you leave? Why did you choose not to join?

Anyone here who believes there are still great opportunities for ministers within the org?

I was licensed with them because I had been raised UPC and was attending a UPC church.

I left because the UPC is anything but united. It was far more advantageous for me, and effective, to be independent.

We have sent out a missionary to Mexico recently, supporting him full time, we just helped out a home missionary to get relocated in a new building, and do not have to mess with the politics of the org.

We just had a upc missionary move here from another country, he has nothing but horror stories to tell of the manipulation, misuse of funds, and total dissarray of the mission field in the pacific.

Why anyone would go upc, except for the politics, is beyond me.

Having said that....

WPF is just her little sister.

Independent is the way to go.
Best thing that ever happened to us.