Your TV Response

[Kutless]

How will you react if the vote passes/does not pass



1. Conformity - one excepts the state of affairs and strives for success within the restricted environment.


2. Innovation - maintain commitment to success goals but take advantage of illegitimate means to attain them.


3. Rebellion - reject the system altogether, replace it with a new one.


4. Retreatism - escapists response, societal dropout, give up on both goals and the efforts to acheive them.


5. Ritualism - give up the struggle to get ahead and concentrate on retaining what little has been gained by adhering rigidly and zealous to the norms.


....I will be #3 :ursofunny . My friend is a criminology major and sent me this list. Fire away!

[Richard Perry]

Bro Kutless....

They system has morphed from the ministerial fellowships order of priorities. When it was first formed each body of believers was autonomous, in that the local church would have the say totally in their structure, standards of Holiness and government.

The last several decades has shifted the autonomous view in that the floor has the right to dictatet what is preached. (on paper it hasn't, but within the fellowship if you don't change your message to conform to the vote you are in rebellion,)

Now one who refuses to change his or her preaching to conform to the edict of St. Louis or the governing body of ministers is considered a pariah and no longer is eligable for office or open fellowship or is asked to preach any sectionl or district meetings. (an unofficial analogy at best, coming from the world I'm in anyway.)

I don't know what I will do yet.....but, I get very little local fellowship because near me are agressive ultra's and agressive progressives, and I need my brethren. I have been already marked as anti-television, It goes back to my evangelism days. and We've filled up a few churches in the area with people who refused to get rid of their TV's.

So I think I'll be forced out by the circumstances around us...Don't know yet.

[Thad]

I really don't see how this is going to effect us on an individual or local basis.

if the church down the road advertises on TV how will that effect my life ??
is that worthy of a massive split in the body ?

[Kutless]

I really don't see how this is going to effect us on an individual or local basis.

if the church down the road advertises on TV how will that effect my life ??
is that worthy of a massive split in the body ?I don't think so Bro Thad. I do think it will effect you an I though. Sin=mply becaus eI think there will be loss.

[Consapostolic1]

I'm not upc, but I have an question about it. Does the UPCI allow it members to have televisions in their homes? I know and understand that upc churches have their own local standards, but is their a set general standard against having televisions. I ask this because it seems to me that almost all the upc churches in this area allow their members to have tv's in their homes. Someone please respond to this.

[Kutless]

I'm not upc, but I have an question about it. Does the UPCI allow it members to have televisions in their homes? I know and understand that upc churches have their own local standards, but is their a set general standard against having televisions. I ask this because it seems to me that almost all the upc churches in this area allow their members to have tv's in their homes. Someone please respond to this.I think its OK as long as you have a good place to hide it.:thumbsup

[rgcraig]

I think its OK as long as you have a good place to hide it.:thumbsup

:ursofunny

[Sheltiedad]

I'm not upc, but I have an question about it. Does the UPCI allow it members to have televisions in their homes? I know and understand that upc churches have their own local standards, but is their a set general standard against having televisions. I ask this because it seems to me that almost all the upc churches in this area allow their members to have tv's in their homes. Someone please respond to this.

Here is the exact wording:

31. No minister having a television in his or her home, shall be permitted to hold license or credentials with the United Pentecostal Church International. Furthermore, no United Pentecostal Church International minister shall be permitted to advertise or minister on television. This does not preclude unsolicited representatives of the news media covering functions.

32. The use of video must strictly be limited to those areas in which motion picture cameras and projectors are traditionally permitted to be used: namely, in taking of pictures of families, friends, and church activities and the viewing of educational, religious, and inspirational films that are consistent with wholesome Christian principles. Furthermore, we strongly oppose the viewing of all worldly motion pictures and video films that are shown commercially in theaters and on television for entertainment purposes. All video receivers must be altered so that they are not able to receive television channels.

[StillStanding]

My response to the TV vote will be, "There she blows!!!!" :D

Then I'll go back to selling pianos.

[chaotic_resolve]

I'm beating a dead horse here . . . but I'm gonna beat it again anyway . . .

There shouldn't be a debate on this.

There shouldn't be a vote on this.

This is not something the collective body of UPCI Ministers should get involved with.

The choice to advertise or be on television should be left to the local churches, not the collective body of ministers.

This is against the UPCI Manual itself which allows for autonomous local churches and which states in Article I of the Constitution that we shall use "any means necessary" to promote the whole Gospel to the whole world.

The UPCI was founded to be a fellowship of believers - not a government-type organization as its become.

Furthermore, in keeping with the founders of the UPCI, the Affirmation Statement (aka AS) should be amended to state:

"I (Minister's name), do hereby declare that I believe and embrace the Fundamental Doctrine as stated in the Articles of Faith as set forth in the Manual of the United Pentecostal Church International. I also believe and embrace the Biblical concept of separation from the world and living a Godly lifestyle. I pledge to practice, preach, and teach the same."

I'm gonna get hammered for this, but remove the sentence on holiness completely and leave it to local Pastors and districts to set standards. Most dress "holiness" standards aren't Biblical anyways. So take it out.

:haloplug

[Whole Hearted]

Bro Kutless....

They system has morphed from the ministerial fellowships order of priorities. When it was first formed each body of believers was autonomous, in that the local church would have the say totally in their structure, standards of Holiness and government.

The last several decades has shifted the autonomous view in that the floor has the right to dictatet what is preached. (on paper it hasn't, but within the fellowship if you don't change your message to conform to the vote you are in rebellion,)

Now one who refuses to change his or her preaching to conform to the edict of St. Louis or the governing body of ministers is considered a pariah and no longer is eligable for office or open fellowship or is asked to preach any sectionl or district meetings. (an unofficial analogy at best, coming from the world I'm in anyway.)

I don't know what I will do yet.....but, I get very little local fellowship because near me are agressive ultra's and agressive progressives, and I need my brethren. I have been already marked as anti-television, It goes back to my evangelism days. and We've filled up a few churches in the area with people who refused to get rid of their TV's.

So I think I'll be forced out by the circumstances around us...Don't know yet.

I wish we were closer brother I would love the fellowship.

[Nahum]

Bro Kutless....

They system has morphed from the ministerial fellowships order of priorities. When it was first formed each body of believers was autonomous, in that the local church would have the say totally in their structure, standards of Holiness and government.

The last several decades has shifted the autonomous view in that the floor has the right to dictatet what is preached. (on paper it hasn't, but within the fellowship if you don't change your message to conform to the vote you are in rebellion,)

Now one who refuses to change his or her preaching to conform to the edict of St. Louis or the governing body of ministers is considered a pariah and no longer is eligable for office or open fellowship or is asked to preach any sectionl or district meetings. (an unofficial analogy at best, coming from the world I'm in anyway.)


I don't know what I will do yet.....but, I get very little local fellowship because near me are agressive ultra's and agressive progressives, and I need my brethren. I have been already marked as anti-television, It goes back to my evangelism days. and We've filled up a few churches in the area with people who refused to get rid of their TV's.

So I think I'll be forced out by the circumstances around us...Don't know yet.


Brother Perry, it would be a shame to walk away from something you've invested so much in. I am on the opposite end of you ideologically, but I really enjoy your posts and your spirit.

All is not lost. Keep being what God leads you to be. There is enough room here for all of us! :highfive

[FRINGE_NUTTER]

REMEMBER THE SONG, "THANK GOD I AM FREE"???

Thank God I am free, free, free from UPC!!!

Bro Kutless....

They system has morphed from the ministerial fellowships order of priorities. When it was first formed each body of believers was autonomous, in that the local church would have the say totally in their structure, standards of Holiness and government.

The last several decades has shifted the autonomous view in that the floor has the right to dictatet what is preached. (on paper it hasn't, but within the fellowship if you don't change your message to conform to the vote you are in rebellion,)

Now one who refuses to change his or her preaching to conform to the edict of St. Louis or the governing body of ministers is considered a pariah and no longer is eligable for office or open fellowship or is asked to preach any sectionl or district meetings. (an unofficial analogy at best, coming from the world I'm in anyway.)

I don't know what I will do yet.....but, I get very little local fellowship because near me are agressive ultra's and agressive progressives, and I need my brethren. I have been already marked as anti-television, It goes back to my evangelism days. and We've filled up a few churches in the area with people who refused to get rid of their TV's.

So I think I'll be forced out by the circumstances around us...Don't know yet.

[Praxeas]

How will you react if the vote passes/does not pass



1. Conformity - one excepts the state of affairs and strives for success within the restricted environment.
What would I need to conform to? No amendment requires you to DO anything or allow anything or conform to anything.


2. Innovation - maintain commitment to success goals but take advantage of illegitimate means to attain them.
Tht's a logical fallacy...that is like asking do you still beat your wife


3. Rebellion - reject the system altogether, replace it with a new one.
Again no TV vote would require someone to have to rebel. It does not require any saint or Pastor to have a TV, watch a TV or not preach against it

[Kutless]

Here is the exact wording:

31. No minister having a television in his or her home, shall be permitted to hold license or credentials with the United Pentecostal Church International. Furthermore, no United Pentecostal Church International minister shall be permitted to advertise or minister on television. This does not preclude unsolicited representatives of the news media covering functions.

32. The use of video must strictly be limited to those areas in which motion picture cameras and projectors are traditionally permitted to be used: namely, in taking of pictures of families, friends, and church activities and the viewing of educational, religious, and inspirational films that are consistent with wholesome Christian principles. Furthermore, we strongly oppose the viewing of all worldly motion pictures and video films that are shown commercially in theaters and on television for entertainment purposes. All video receivers must be altered so that they are not able to receive television channels.Examples of inspirational films: Forest Gump, Radio, Facing the Giants, Patch Adams, Rain Man, etc. etc.

Examples of Educational viewing: Food Network, History Channel, Discovery, Discovery Kids, National Geographic, Court TV, MSNBC, Fox News, CNBC, C-span, Public Access, etc. etc.

Question: I wouild love to see an honest answer from liscensed ministers who violate these LAWS and cover it up in the name of a computer.

[Ferd]

didnt read much more than the opening question. buut.


if the TV deal passes, I will be mildly happy. the UPCI needs to get real and become a movement again. right now we have become a country club with 3 different factions trying hard to control the lounge

[Kutless]

What would I need to conform to? No amendment requires you to DO anything or allow anything or conform to anything.



Tht's a logical fallacy...that is like asking do you still beat your wife



Again no TV vote would require someone to have to rebel. It does not require any saint or Pastor to have a TV, watch a TV or not preach against itI don't know how to specifically quote things like you did.

As far as your first statement.....HOGWASH! Any lay person or somebody aspiring to have a pulpit ministry will have to conform if they have a TV and the Pastor has the backbone (some don't) The Amendment or lack thereof will be towards pastors but I would think that there would then be even more responsibility to then preach the same to your saints. If the TV passes and you don't believe it would you be OK for your saints having one?

Skipping to your 3rd comment. I would have to disagree. Even in my small circle I see rebellion from Liscensed ministers. Excusing themselves from the AS while using an alternate source of media for the same thing. I have also personnally witnessed blatant disregard of the AF.If its happening now and it still does not pass I suspect nothing less.

[Kutless]

What would I need to conform to? No amendment requires you to DO anything or allow anything or conform to anything.



Tht's a logical fallacy...that is like asking do you still beat your wife



Again no TV vote would require someone to have to rebel. It does not require any saint or Pastor to have a TV, watch a TV or not preach against itBack to your second comment.....HUH????????