View Full Version : UPCI Growth Stats: The Ministry to Church Ratio
This stats are old but .... interesting ...
Source: http://www.spiritualabuse.org/upcbeliefs.html (http://www.spiritualabuse.org/upcbeliefs.html)
Out of all the Oneness (also known as Apostolic) churches, the United Pentecostal Church is considered the largest.
In the organization's report on the growth statistics of the UPCI from 1945 through 1999, it is interesting that the UPCI compares its statistics with the Assembly of God. If the UPCI truly wants to compare growth, why not do so with other Apostolic churches? How does their growth compare to the PAW or ALJC? Below are some details of the report.
In 1945 the UPC had 521 churches and as of 1999 they had 3892. From 1998 to 1999 they added 31 churches, which was an .8% growth. (This is the net amount after subtracting the churches which closed or left the organization from the new ones which started.) This is certainly not an indicative of the 'enormous' growth some members claim.
According to their records, on the average 147 new churches are added each year and 101 churches close or leave the UPCI. According to the official web site of the UPCI, they now have 3876 churches (down from 1999 figures), with an estimated constituency of 600,000. (These are all North America figures.)
In 1945 the UPC had 1838 ministers and as of 1999 they had 8372. From 1998 to 1999 they added 153 ministers, which was a 1.86% growth.
They had, as of 1999, 4480 more licensed ministers than they had churches.
In 1986 they gained 165 churches and lost 92; in 1987 they gained 175 and lost 97; in 1988 they gained 144 and lost 85; in 1989 they gained 172 and lost 111; in 1990 they gained 137 and lost 122; in 1991 they gained 147 and lost 91; in 1992 they gained 145 and lost 91; in 1993 they gained 136 and lost 177 (This was when the yearly affirmation took effect.); in 1994 they gained 146 and lost 98; in 1995 they gained 154 and lost 93; in 1996 they gained 130 and lost 78; and in 1997 they gained 123 and lost 78. From 1986 through 1997 the UPC did not average a net of more than 47 new churches per year in a 12 year period.
To bring it home, in 1982 New Jersey had 9 churches and in 1984 there were 11. That was an increase of one per year. In 2001 they had 20. So from 1982 to 2001, New Jersey added 11 churches, a growth rate of less than 1 per year. (This was taken from UPCI Church Directories.) It is evident the UPC ministry is growing at a much greater rate than their churches.
_______________________
Does anyone have some current stats on churches added and dropped ... from 99-2007??
Total churches today? Total ministers today?
What is the the ministers to churches ratio today?
Why aren't there more churches ... especially considering the growing number of ministers?
As of today ... according the UPCI Church locator ... there are 30 churches in NJ now ... 2 are w/o a pastor listed ...
Interestingly ... apparently a good friend of mine Angel Andino has recently opened a new work in Passaic.
Looks like my friend Jhon Rios, also in NJ ... is no longer w/ the fellowship.
J-Roc
05-05-2007, 11:27 PM
Looks like my friend Jhon Rios, also in NJ ... is no longer w/ the fellowship.
Alicia's hubby?
BoredOutOfMyMind
05-05-2007, 11:48 PM
Looks like my friend Jhon Rios, also in NJ ... is no longer w/ the fellowship.
Or he is not listed online.
Or he is not listed online.
No ... I think I saw his name in the no longer affiliated section of one of the last Forewards I received ...
He's not showing up on the minister's database either ...
https://wec.upci.org/ministers/default.asp
Hoovie
05-06-2007, 01:25 PM
This stats are old but .... interesting ...
Source: http://www.spiritualabuse.org/upcbeliefs.html (http://www.spiritualabuse.org/upcbeliefs.html)
Out of all the Oneness (also known as Apostolic) churches, the United Pentecostal Church is considered the largest.
In the organization's report on the growth statistics of the UPCI from 1945 through 1999, it is interesting that the UPCI compares its statistics with the Assembly of God. If the UPCI truly wants to compare growth, why not do so with other Apostolic churches? How does their growth compare to the PAW or ALJC? Below are some details of the report.
In 1945 the UPC had 521 churches and as of 1999 they had 3892. From 1998 to 1999 they added 31 churches, which was an .8% growth. (This is the net amount after subtracting the churches which closed or left the organization from the new ones which started.) This is certainly not an indicative of the 'enormous' growth some members claim.
According to their records, on the average 147 new churches are added each year and 101 churches close or leave the UPCI. According to the official web site of the UPCI, they now have 3876 churches (down from 1999 figures), with an estimated constituency of 600,000. (These are all North America figures.)
In 1945 the UPC had 1838 ministers and as of 1999 they had 8372. From 1998 to 1999 they added 153 ministers, which was a 1.86% growth.
They had, as of 1999, 4480 more licensed ministers than they had churches.
In 1986 they gained 165 churches and lost 92; in 1987 they gained 175 and lost 97; in 1988 they gained 144 and lost 85; in 1989 they gained 172 and lost 111; in 1990 they gained 137 and lost 122; in 1991 they gained 147 and lost 91; in 1992 they gained 145 and lost 91; in 1993 they gained 136 and lost 177 (This was when the yearly affirmation took effect.); in 1994 they gained 146 and lost 98; in 1995 they gained 154 and lost 93; in 1996 they gained 130 and lost 78; and in 1997 they gained 123 and lost 78. From 1986 through 1997 the UPC did not average a net of more than 47 new churches per year in a 12 year period.
To bring it home, in 1982 New Jersey had 9 churches and in 1984 there were 11. That was an increase of one per year. In 2001 they had 20. So from 1982 to 2001, New Jersey added 11 churches, a growth rate of less than 1 per year. (This was taken from UPCI Church Directories.) It is evident the UPC ministry is growing at a much greater rate than their churches.
_______________________
Does anyone have some current stats on churches added and dropped ... from 99-2007??
Total churches today? Total ministers today?
What is the the ministers to churches ratio today?
Why aren't there more churches ... especially considering the growing number of ministers?
While the numbers, when they are touted, should reflect those leaving/closing, it still shows the UPC as a growing church organization by todays USA standards. If the foreign field is included it makes the UPC a rapidly growing church denomination.
As to the Minister/church ratio, I see that as a tendency toward larger churches with more than one licensed minister. Our church 350 has six I believe.
Brother Strange
05-06-2007, 01:40 PM
600,000 members in the USA and only 8372 churches? Interesting. That would make the average USA church having a little more than 154 each. Actually, I doubt that the average church has the 54 much less the 154. I wonder where those stats come from. Thinking evangelistically again, are we? :D
Hoovie
05-06-2007, 01:46 PM
600,000 members in the USA and only 8372 churches? Interesting. That would make the average USA church having a little more than 154 each. Actually, I doubt that the average church has the 54 much less the 154. I wonder where those stats come from. Thinking evangelistically again, are we? :D
Matter of statistical perception. If the churches having over 1000 were removed from the equation the "average" would change dramatically.
Praxeas
05-06-2007, 01:47 PM
While the numbers, when they are touted, should reflect those leaving/closing, it still shows the UPC as a growing church organization by todays USA standards. If the foreign field is included it makes the UPC a rapidly growing church denomination.
As to the Minister/church ratio, I see that as a tendency toward larger churches with more than one licensed minister. Our church 350 has six I believe.
But I think that is the point. Why? We have a lot of large cities here in Ca with no UPC at all and a lot of other cities with just 1 UPC.
Here in my city there is 1 UPC and 2 english AOGs and 2 Spanish AOGs, although I think one might have closed.
And to be honest, there is a smaller city here that we often just throw in and consider to be part of the larger city I am in....there is another AOG there and no UPC
Brother Strange
05-06-2007, 01:49 PM
Matter of statistical perception. If the churches having over 1000 were removed from the equation the "average" would change dramatically.
Are you saying that those churches were not included in the total number of churches?
Praxeas
05-06-2007, 01:53 PM
Are you saying that those churches were not included in the total number of churches?
I think he is saying those churchs bump the average up
Hoovie
05-06-2007, 01:54 PM
Are you saying that those churches were not included in the total number of churches?
Sure they were. But the stats do not mean your average UPC church has 154 people. The very large churches have a disproportionate effect on the stats.
Brother Strange
05-06-2007, 01:59 PM
Sure they were. But the stats do not mean your average UPC church has 154 people. The very large churches have a disproportionate effect on the stats.
True...
The many, many churches with two, three and at the most a dozen does too. That also has a disporportionate effect on the stats to the bottom equation. There are far more of those little six to ten member churches than there are of the very large churches which has the tendency to stastically warp the equation to the lesser degree rather than the great as you have assumed here.
Maybe we have a Mathematical Statician on this forum than can help us.
Hoovie
05-06-2007, 02:07 PM
True...
The many, many churches with two, three and at the most a dozen does too. That also has a disporportionate effect on the stats to the bottom equation. There are far more of those little six to ten member churches than there are of the very large churches which has the tendency to stastically warp the equation to the lesser degree rather than the great as you have assumed here.
Maybe we have a Mathematical Statician on this forum than can help us.
I doubt any churches responded with less than 10. But even so, 10 is much closer to 154 than 1000 is to 154.
I am sure headquarters would have all the stats available... but perhaps not for public consumption.
The church average in 1999 was 154 members??????????? .... IMPOSSIBLE.
Hoovie
05-06-2007, 02:17 PM
The church average in 1999 was 154 members??????????? .... IMPOSSIBLE.
Did you all go to tiny churches?
Also, consider the definition of "membership" - not always the same as attendance.
Steve ... your church has 6 licensed ministers ... are there any daughter works these men, or women, are involved in .....?? Or plans for them to be involved in????
Brother Strange
05-06-2007, 02:23 PM
[QUOTE=Stephen Hoover;101424]I doubt any churches responded with less than 10. But even so, 10 is much closer to 154 than 1000 is to 154.
But the sheer numbers of the dozen membership churches would warp the statistics to be much closer to lesser than the greater number.
I am sure headquarters would have all the stats available... but perhaps not for public consumption.
I would be greatly disappointed to know that I've poured my support of labor, love and untold thousands of dollars into another secret society for 67 years. Say it aint so!
BoredOutOfMyMind
05-06-2007, 02:26 PM
Daniel,
I guess I am at a loss at your point here..
Are you saying only large numbers show growth?
Daniel,
I guess I am at a loss at your point here..
Are you saying only large numbers show growth?
Of course not .... Impact is the greatest indicator of growth ...
I am also disturbed about the trend I've observed ....the stunting of qualified men to open churches within the fellowship ....
BoredOutOfMyMind
05-06-2007, 02:32 PM
Of course not .... Impact is the greatest indicator of growth ...
I am also disturbed about the trend I've observed the stunting of qualified men to open churched in the fellowship ....
We have broken the 50 mark here in a year and usually have 35-40 on a regular basis each service. We have 3 licensed preachers. One is retired, and so the stats are not as dismal as the sheer number present.
I remember one year hearing a BOTT sermon that challenged every worker in the church to win ONE soul.
I do not find stunting as common as you portray.
I think the planting of churches needs to be re-examined ... that's all ... some of these large sized churches ... would have more of an impact if they down-sized and various daughter churches grew out of them ..... especially when there are qualified men sitting ....
BoredOutOfMyMind
05-06-2007, 02:42 PM
I think the planting of churches needs to be re-examined ... that's all ... some of these large sized churches ... would have more of an impact if they down-sized and various daughter churches grew out of them ..... especially when there a qualified men sitting ....
The obstacles are Mentoring and Ego.
Either those sitting were never Mentored fully, or have an Ego that does not lead to mentoring.
Or the Ego of those above is not willing to allow mentoring.
Take NJ for instance since 1982 ... they've seen only 19 churches added net ... I'm sure there are some qualified men sitting in those churches ... that could open up a work ...
Hoovie
05-06-2007, 02:44 PM
[QUOTE]
But the sheer numbers of the dozen membership churches would warp the statistics to be much closer to lesser than the greater number.
I would be greatly disappointed to know that I've poured my support of labor, love and untold thousands of dollars into another secret society for 67 years. Say it aint so!
Maybe, maybe not. I don't have those numbers.
The obstacles are Mentoring and Ego.
Either those sitting were never Mentored fully, or have an Ego that does not lead to mentoring.
Or the Ego of those above is not willing to allow mentoring.
add nepotism .. sons and son-on-laws ... get groomed and placed first.
Hoovie
05-06-2007, 02:49 PM
Steve ... your church has 6 licensed ministers ... are there any daughter works these men, or women, are involved in .....?? Or plans for them to be involved in????
We have two Pastors, one Evangelist, one involved with men/youth, and two involved in Spanish church (one which I understand is becoming a foreign Missionary) Now that I think of it, our youth leader may also be licensed.
350 is attendance... membership may be higher.
Ministers of daughter works are not counted in this number.
Hoovie
05-06-2007, 02:50 PM
Take NJ for instance since 1982 ... they've seen only 19 churches added net ... I'm sure there are some qualified men sitting in those churches ... that could open up a work ...
And you are calling on them to?
And you are calling on them to?
I'm just an outside observer .... Steve ... maybe you got enough pull to effectuate change ....:tease
BoredOutOfMyMind
05-06-2007, 02:53 PM
add nepotism .. sons and son-on-laws ... get groomed and placed first.
Again, Ego is the driving force to not allow mentoring.
I learned more in six months of active Ministering than in 10 yrs of study. I had been to young preacher meetings and they were touchy feeley type of hype and nothing practical. None prepared me for funeral visits, or for when my best friend's Dad was brutally Murdered.
Again, Ego is the driving force to not allow mentoring.
I learned more in six months of active Ministering than in 10 yrs of study. I had been to young preacher meetings and they were touchy feeley type of hype and nothing practical. None prepared me for funeral visits, or for when my best friend's Dad was brutally Murdered.
sobering ...
Hoovie
05-06-2007, 02:55 PM
I'm just an outside observer .... Steve ... maybe you got enough pull to effectuate change ....:tease
No I don't. To some degree I question the wisdom of having a UPCI church in every berg, given the size of the organization.
BoredOutOfMyMind
05-06-2007, 02:58 PM
sobering ...
"Welcome to the ministry, son!"
Sadly enough my buddy wound up divorcing his wife and leaving 3 girls over the stress and I never was able to make an effective change in his life.
"Welcome to the ministry, son!"
Sadly enough my buddy wound up divorcing his wife and leaving 3 girls over the stress and I never was able to make an effective change in his life.
Those "You have the anointing" and "You are a Levite" messages/teachings ... can go so far ...
bump ... DOES ANYONE HAVE CURRENT STATISTICS???
PP???
Steve Epley
05-07-2007, 07:10 AM
My observations are the churches in our area are about the same in number that they were 20 years ago whne one has a great addition that means others have had a subtraction. They have been recycling saints for years.
I do not see a growth or reduction about the same.
Brother Strange
05-07-2007, 07:24 AM
My observations are the churches in our area are about the same in number that they were 20 years ago whne one has a great addition that means others have had a subtraction. They have been recycling saints for years.
I do not see a growth or reduction about the same.
I see that you missed what was called the "all time great" message preached, hailed to be the summit of all preaching? The title of this ultimate message of all compassing wisdom was, "Send the Heffer Home."
bump ... DOES ANYONE HAVE CURRENT STATISTICS???
PP???
No current statistics for the UPCI but driving thru DeRidder La, this last week I saw they now have an additional 2 Oneness Pennycostal churches....I think that makes 11? in a town of 13K?
these people gotta stop. (before blaming the pennycostals, the Baptists and methodists do the same thing)
Steve Epley
05-07-2007, 08:23 AM
I see that you missed what was called the "all time great" message preached, hailed to be the summit of all preaching? The title of this ultimate message of all compassing wisdom was, "Send the Heffer Home."
I believed it when it was preached and written and believe it today. Nope did not miss it. It was truly great then and now.
Brother Strange
05-07-2007, 09:34 AM
I believed it when it was preached and written and believe it today. Nope did not miss it. It was truly great then and now.
Of course...you already knew that I KNEW what your answer would be.
The question was asked TIC.
I believed it then, too. I believe it now, as well. Truly a great message delivered by a great messenger.
600,000 members in the USA and only 8372 churches? Interesting. That would make the average USA church having a little more than 154 each. Actually, I doubt that the average church has the 54 much less the 154. I wonder where those stats come from. Thinking evangelistically again, are we? :D
Not sure if anyone else has answered this, but they get their constituency from Easter Sunday attendance. There might be a little "rounding up" to make sure they included those in the restroom, too.
The first sentence is true, the second is a j/k.
Brother Strange
05-07-2007, 11:01 AM
Not sure if anyone else has answered this, but they get their constituency from Easter Sunday attendance. There might be a little "rounding up" to make sure they included those in the restroom, too.
The first sentence is true, the second is a j/k.
Rounding up! :lol
Gotta love those skilled in the fine art of speaking evangelistically.
Steve Epley
05-07-2007, 09:29 PM
Of course...you already knew that I KNEW what your answer would be.
The question was asked TIC.
I believed it then, too. I believe it now, as well. Truly a great message delivered by a great messenger.
The original preacher of his disappointed us but his message was still true. Another sad story of Pentecost. So much talent and annointing but whatever?
Took a good church down with him to.
BoredOutOfMyMind
05-07-2007, 10:48 PM
bump ... DOES ANYONE HAVE CURRENT STATISTICS???
PP???
<raises hand excitedly>
I do. I do.
Hoovie
05-07-2007, 11:00 PM
<raises hand excitedly>
I do. I do.
Let me guess... privleged information available only in the Forward??
Truly Blessed
05-07-2007, 11:12 PM
Based on crisscrossing the US on deputation in the 80's, unless there has been a dramatic increase in the last 25 years there are many very small churches in the UPCI.
BoredOutOfMyMind
05-07-2007, 11:26 PM
Let me guess... privleged information available only in the Forward??
Even more CIA that that. Stats on how many churches and how many Preachers per District. No mention of size of churches.
Avg is 80 ministers in a District.
Avg is 47 churches
Avg population of the States is 4,600,000
Hoovie
05-07-2007, 11:28 PM
Even more CIA that that. Stats on how many churches and how many Preachers per District. No mention of size of churches.
Avg is 80 ministers in a District.
Avg is 47 churches
Avg population of the States is 4,600,000
I have no further questions yer Honor.
BoredOutOfMyMind
05-07-2007, 11:30 PM
I have no further questions yer Honor.
That is Nebraska for number of Ministers
That is Oregon for number of churches
That is population for Alabama.....
Truly Blessed
05-08-2007, 07:18 AM
I used to think numbers were an important measuring stick, and I realize that numbers are a useful measure. However, I have also come to realize anyone can use numbers to say whatever they want them to say. Politicians do it all the time.
We live in a day where "brand" loyalty is a lot less important to most Christians. It used to be that families stuck with family in whatever church they grew up in. Today each family unit could be attending a completely different denomination.
I have said that to say this; I believe there are a lot more people being saved in the UPCI than is reflected in their membership. Just because someone gets saved in the UPC doesn't mean they will live the rest of their lives in the UPC. Retaining members may be the greater challenge!
I do think that the UPCI hands out ministerial credentials too freely. I personally think that no one should be granted ministerial credentials until they have proven to the granting ministerial body that they actually have a ministry.
Credentials a ministry doth not make! I have two outstanding young men (one is my son) working with me in our church who have awesome ministries, but neither one has credentials with a ministerial body. They are not interested in getting credentials at the moment. Yet, I see churches with men holding credentials sitting around doing nothing yet claiming they have a ministry.
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