Gal 3:20 (Please no Godhead Debate)

[TGBTG]

The thread on "christian perspective of the law" caused me to stumble upon Gal 3:20. (Please, let's not get into a Godhead debate) I was wondering what Paul meant when he said a mediator is between two, but God is one. What is he implying by that statement?

Gal 3 (NIV 2010)
19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator. 20 A mediator, however, implies more than one party; but God is one.

Gal 3 (Amplified Bible)
20 Now a go-between (intermediary) has to do with and implies more than one party [there can be no mediator with just one person]. Yet God is [only] one Person [and He was the sole party in giving that promise to Abraham. But the Law was a contract between two, God and Israel; its validity was dependent on both].

Gal 3 (KJV)
20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

[Falla39]

1Tim. 2:5
For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

[Socialite]

The thread on "christian perspective of the law" caused me to stumble upon Gal 3:20. (Please, let's not get into a Godhead debate) I was wondering what Paul meant when he said a mediator is between two, but God is one. What is he implying by that statement?

Gal 3 (NIV 2010)
19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator. 20 A mediator, however, implies more than one party; but God is one.

Gal 3 (Amplified Bible)
20 Now a go-between (intermediary) has to do with and implies more than one party [there can be no mediator with just one person]. Yet God is [only] one Person [and He was the sole party in giving that promise to Abraham. But the Law was a contract between two, God and Israel; its validity was dependent on both].

Gal 3 (KJV)
20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

The contention is what the affect of the Law is if Abraham was promised salvation before the Law (sorry, I will lose some dispensationalists on this one).

The addendum added 430 years later is the Law. But Abram had a covenant made through a party of one, God to him. The Law was given to angels, to Moses on behalf of an entire nation.

There is much debate about the "descendants" of Abram, since it's actually singular. THe Message says it like this:

You will observe that Scripture, in the careful language of a legal document, does not say "to descendants," referring to everybody in general, but "to your descendant" (the noun, note, is singular), referring to Christ. This is the way I interpret this: A will, earlier ratified by God, is not annulled by an addendum attached 430 years later, thereby negating the promise of the will. No, this addendum, with its instructions and regulations, has nothing to do with the promised inheritance in the will.

After hearing this, Paul thinks like his audience:
What is the point, then, of the law, the attached addendum?

It was a thoughtful addition to the original covenant promises made to Abraham. The purpose of the law was to keep a sinful people in the way of salvation until Christ (the descendant) came, inheriting the promises and distributing them to us. Obviously this law was not a firsthand encounter with God. It was arranged by angelic messengers through a middleman, Moses. But if there is a middleman as there was at Sinai, then the people are not dealing directly with God, are they? But the original promise is the direct blessing of God, received by faith.

If such is the case, is the law, then, an anti-promise, a negation of God's will for us? Not at all. Its purpose was to make obvious to everyone that we are, in ourselves, out of right relationship with God, and therefore to show us the futility of devising some religious system for getting by our own efforts what we can only get by waiting in faith for God to complete his promise. For if any kind of rule-keeping had power to create life in us, we would certainly have gotten it by this time.

Until the time when we were mature enough to respond freely in faith to the living God, we were carefully surrounded and protected by the Mosaic law. The law was like those Greek tutors, with which you are familiar, who escort children to school and protect them from danger or distraction, making sure the children will really get to the place they set out for.

25-27But now you have arrived at your destination: By faith in Christ you are in direct relationship with God. Your baptism in Christ was not just washing you up for a fresh start. It also involved dressing you in an adult faith wardrobe—Christ's life, the fulfillment of God's original promise.

[Socialite]

Get your shouting shoes on:

Also, since you are Christ's family, then you are Abraham's famous "descendant," heirs according to the covenant promises.

[TGBTG]

Ok, maybe I did not phrase the question well. What I'm asking is why did Paul say but God is one after saying a mediator is not a mediator of one?

[Apprehended]

The call of Abraham came first.

Abraham's obedience to the call came next.

The promise followed.

No different today. We are Abraham's seed according to that SAME promise, IF, we remain FAITHFUL. We are still looking for that same city that Abraham sought out for to seek many centuries ago. We are still pilgrims journeying ever onward holding the same promise and vision in our own hearts as did our Father in the Faith.

[Socialite]

Ok, maybe I did not phrase the question well. What I'm asking is why did Paul say but God is one after saying a mediator is not a mediator of one?

That was addressed.

It's part of the set-up here.

Abram's promise came straight from God.
Moses delivered the promise as a mediator.

[Socialite]

The call of Abraham came first.

Abraham's obedience to the call came next.

The promise followed.

The Elder Brother, always so quick to skip the grace part and go straight to the obedience part :)

Cute.


And wrong! Romans 4-6. Read it.

[Hoovie]

Ok, maybe I did not phrase the question well. What I'm asking is why did Paul say but God is one after saying a mediator is not a mediator of one?

The two parties are Yahweh and humanity.

A mediator in this case had to be both God and Man. A Kinsman Redeemer.

[Socialite]

The two parties are Yahweh and humanity.

A mediator in this case had to be both God and Man. A Kinsman Redeemer.

Hoovie, I like that.

But I don't think it fits the context of Gal 3.

[Sister Alvear]

Jesus Christ is the daysman...(just my thoughts)

[Hoovie]

Hoovie, I like that.

But I don't think it fits the context of Gal 3.

No?

19Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.


What the Law and Moses could not mediate, (the blessing promised) was accomplished by God through Jesus.

[Socialite]

No?

19Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.


What the Law and Moses could not mediate, (the blessing promised) was accomplished by God through Jesus.

The larger discussion includes Abraham's promise as well, not just the Law.

Paul is making an argument here (which many have disagreed with Paul's hermeneutic) in saying Jesus was the "descendant" promised all the way back to Abraham.

[Apprehended]

The Elder Brother, always so quick to skip the grace part and go straight to the obedience part :)

Cute.


And wrong! Romans 4-6. Read it.

No...

YOU are wrong.

I read it. Here it is:

2For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

There are no works in the whole world that can save a man. Jesus alone is the savior. He alone can save.

Mother Teresa was a good woman. Yet, as far as I know, she was not born again of the water and of the Spirit. All of her good works in feeding the poor girls of Calcutta and Bombay, providing a home for them, accounted for nothing. There is a plan of salvation which she did not accept.

3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Of course Abram believed God. He received the call. He believed that God had called him. He then went out obeying the call to depart from Ur and go into a land which he was promised. This obedience was counted for righteousness thought he had not yet received the promise of a land and a city built by God. He wandered until the day of his death, not having realized that promise.

4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

Thus, all the good works of feeding the poor, running for political office, voting in the right way, serving on the town counsel, clothing the naked, does not appropriate grace or salvation but to the worker, these obligations are often seen as paying a debt to society. These things do not appropriate grace. Grace is given to every man...even the man who chooses not to believe the Word of God.

5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

There is a serious misunderstanding of the Word if someone takes this to mean that the ungodly can continue on without repentance but nevertheless is justified anyway...even in their continued sin.

The truth of the matter is that hereditary sin of Adam was passed down to every man of which I am not guilt. Therefore, the justice of God by His grace, justified me. I no longer bear the sin of Adam. I only bear my own sin which I have committed, from which I repent, owing to the grace of God that affords me the liberty from Adam's transgression to do so. The thing that will make me shout is knowing that Jesus, without anything that I have or could possibly do, became (Adam's) sin for me. Now free from that guilt, I must repent to be absolved of my own.

6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Therefore, from Adam's sin, even before I was born, I am righteous since Jesus died to take away the sin of the whole world, declaring every man now living, whether he has heard the gospel or not, to be free from the penalty of Adam's sin. That's grace. Now, the man must repent of his own sin by obeying the gospel of death, burial and resurrection.

The gospel is too simple to miss. Adam sinned but Jesus declared me not guilty. I sin, I must repent. Too easy to miss unless someone wishes to miss it. But why would they miss the simplicity of the gospel. No need to go the way of the wide gate or the broad way which everyone seems persistent in traveling. It's just as easy to go by the strait-gate and walk the narrow way.

[Socialite]

Mother Teresa was a good woman. Yet, as far as I know, she was not born again of the water and of the Spirit. All of her good works in feeding the poor girls of Calcutta and Bombay, providing a home for them, accounted for nothing. There is a plan of salvation which she did not accept.

Mother Teresa wasn't saved because of her good works, her faith in Jesus saved her, and gave her a love for people she could not have had otherwise. What a disgusting thing to say.

A "plan of salvation?" Here you go, cookie-cuttering away the NT.

I'll respond to the rest of your post, Elder Brother.

[Socialite]

Thus, all the good works of feeding the poor, running for political office, voting in the right way, serving on the town counsel, clothing the naked, does not appropriate grace or salvation but to the worker, these obligations are often seen as paying a debt to society. These things do not appropriate grace. Grace is given to every man...even the man who chooses not to believe the Word of God.
Quote:
5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
There is a serious misunderstanding of the Word if someone takes this to mean that the ungodly can continue on without repentance but nevertheless is justified anyway...even in their continued sin.

The truth of the matter is that hereditary sin of Adam was passed down to every man of which I am not guilt. Therefore, the justice of God by His grace, justified me. I no longer bear the sin of Adam. I only bear my own sin which I have committed, from which I repent, owing to the grace of God that affords me the liberty from Adam's transgression to do so. The thing that will make me shout is knowing that Jesus, without anything that I have or could possibly do, became (Adam's) sin for me. Now free from that guilt, I must repent to be absolved of my own.

For you, the cross is something that has only given us a fresh start, and freed us from the past (Adam), maybe a present reality but is not something with us in the future. We are still eternally judged by our own record or his record?


But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

You commented on this with a "surely it doesn't mean this" but never explained what the scripture means. Please, I'm all ears.

[Socialite]

Works does not only include feeding the poor, but should include anything we feel we can perform on our own to deserve or earn God's pardon. Jesus paid it all.

[notofworks]

The thread on "christian perspective of the law" caused me to stumble upon Gal 3:20. (Please, let's not get into a Godhead debate) I was wondering what Paul meant when he said a mediator is between two, but God is one. What is he implying by that statement?

Gal 3 (NIV 2010)
19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator. 20 A mediator, however, implies more than one party; but God is one.

Gal 3 (Amplified Bible)
20 Now a go-between (intermediary) has to do with and implies more than one party [there can be no mediator with just one person]. Yet God is [only] one Person [and He was the sole party in giving that promise to Abraham. But the Law was a contract between two, God and Israel; its validity was dependent on both].

Gal 3 (KJV)
20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.





As soon as I can track down someone who believes in three Gods, I'll start a Godhead debate. Until then, I don't see the point. So you have my word.....I won't start a Godhead debate.

[TGBTG]

As soon as I can track down someone who believes in three Gods, I'll start a Godhead debate. Until then, I don't see the point. So you have my word.....I won't start a Godhead debate.

:thumbsup

[Apprehended]

For you, the cross is something that has only given us a fresh start, and freed us from the past (Adam), maybe a present reality but is not something with us in the future. We are still eternally judged by our own record or his record?


But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

You commented on this with a "surely it doesn't mean this" but never explained what the scripture means. Please, I'm all ears.

Let's try it one more time since you didn't seem to be able to follow the context...

5But to him that worketh not,

To him that does not consider his his volunteer service at the nursing home, serving as a Boy Scout leader, yes, to him that is the least worthy as far as his nice deeds are concerned...TO THAT MAN...

but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly,

The ungodly are condemned already. Let there be no doubt upon whom the condemnation rests. It is the UNgodly who suffers that condemnation:

Rom 8:1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Can you see the qualifications? No condemnation upon them who are in Christ Jesus. Who are they that are in Christ Jesus? They who are not in condemnation who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Sin condemns. Let me quote a lot of scripture here for you to thoroughly understand this. No wait, I'll quote one for right now....

1Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Who is it that shall not inherit the Kingdom of God? The unrighteous, of course. Who are the unrighteous? For example fornicators, idolaters, adulters, theives, the covetous, drunkards, revilers, extortioners...these and more shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

1Cr 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

1Cr 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Can now there be any wonder why the WORK of repentance is an imperative? One MUST repent.... When asked of him whose foundational doctrine the New Testament Church is built upon, "Men and brethren, what SHALL WE DO..." Is there any wonder that he who had the keys to that KINGDOM responded with "REPENT...everyone of you....?"

his faith is counted for righteousness.

What is FAITH? It is a LAW...

It is known in christian circles as the LAW of Faith...

Rom 3:27 ¶ Where boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

What is the law of faith?

It is the opposite of the law of Sin. The law of sin in the simplest of terms is the law of "sin and death," that is "the soul that sinneth, it shall surely die."

That law is immutable.

The law of faith is the faith that WORKETH, by love. (Gal. 5:6)

"Faith without works is dead." (James 2:26) Whadayaknowbotdat? James was one of those Apostles whose doctrine the church is built upon!!!

What works?

Running for office and voting right? Volunteering at a food pantry twice a week? Serving in the neighborhood watch? Paying my taxes and not cheating on my income tax return? Are these good works? Yes, of course? Are they works of righteousness? Many sinners do all of these things but are still liars, fornicators, covetous, lascivious, and full of sin of whom we are told that they will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Or could it be those old ceremonial laws such as circumcision, going up to Jerusalem for three feasts per year, sprinkling of the blood of bulls and goats? No, of course not. None of these. Jesus nailed the handwriting of ordinances found in the ceremonial law that was against us to the cross. Good news. You don't have to be circumcised in the flesh to be saved but circumcision of the heart is imperative.

So again, what is the law of Faith...?

Righteousness is the law of Faith...

Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and [I]worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

There are works of unrighteousness which condemns. "Know ye not the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God..."

The acceptance before God is he who works righteousness... To be accepted of Him or not to be accepted of him depends on righteous or unrighteous works...

I will quote the scripture that you sprinkled the magic dust of "context" upon to cause it not to say what it says. So, I will repeat it again for you...

2Cr 7:9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.

2Cr 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Again place your reliance upon the words of Jesus and His Apostles upon which doctrine the church is built up. First a Word from the Chief Cornerstone, the author of our salvation:

Luk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Now a word from one of the Apostles, the one to who Jesus gave the key to the Kingdom...

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Can't get around it. You absolutely MUST place your weight, rely upon, trust in the worthiness of the Word of God. Nothing in the Word would lead one to believe that these imperatives are not just that...IMPERATIVE.

[Praxeas]

I don't know if this will turn into a Godhead debate or not but
Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.
Gal 3:19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary.
Gal 3:20 Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one.
Gal 3:21 Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law.

Heb 6:13 For when God made promise to Abraham, because He could swear by no greater, He swore by Himself,

[TGBTG]

I don't know if this will turn into a Godhead debate or not but
Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.
Gal 3:19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary.
Gal 3:20 Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one.
Gal 3:21 Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law.

Heb 6:13 For when God made promise to Abraham, because He could swear by no greater, He swore by Himself,

You see Prax, Heb 6:13 was what I was thinking also. I think you are thinking what I'm thinking (which I why I said no debate). The verse seems to be saying that God made the covenant and God also is the mediator.

I just wanted to get others' opinion on it.

[Socialite]

Appy, no time today for your book. I'll have to go back in time later.

But I will add:

Who is it that shall not inherit the Kingdom of God? The unrighteous, of course. Who are the unrighteous? For example fornicators, idolaters, adulters, theives, the covetous, drunkards, revilers, extortioners...these and more shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

All these people are unbelieving people as well.

But, like Paul, I do not believe Paul addressed the fornicating Corinthians in such a way as he viewed them as lost. He simply sharpened his rhetoric, admonishing them to "be who you are." In fact his follow-up "such were some of you" is sort of "in faith" because he's obviously writing this letter because of some pretty serious problems with the very things he listed.

Then he says this:
"All things are lawful for me," but not all things are helpful. "All things are lawful for me," but I will not be enslaved by anything

And he concludes:
"glorify God in your bodies."

So before you create a Gospel of Moralism, you should understand the unrighteous are not people who sin, they are people who don't believe and continue behaving as unbelievers.

[Praxeas]

You see Prax, Heb 6:13 was what I was thinking also. I think you are thinking what I'm thinking (which I why I said no debate). The verse seems to be saying that God made the covenant and God also is the mediator.

I just wanted to get others' opinion on it.
Yes

[notofworks]

Appy, no time today for your book. I'll have to go back in time later.

But I will add:

Who is it that shall not inherit the Kingdom of God? The unrighteous, of course. Who are the unrighteous? For example fornicators, idolaters, adulters, theives, the covetous, drunkards, revilers, extortioners...these and more shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

All these people are unbelieving people as well.

But, like Paul, I do not believe Paul addressed the fornicating Corinthians in such a way as he viewed them as lost. He simply sharpened his rhetoric, admonishing them to "be who you are." In fact his follow-up "such were some of you" is sort of "in faith" because he's obviously writing this letter because of some pretty serious problems with the very things he listed.

Then he says this:
"All things are lawful for me," but not all things are helpful. "All things are lawful for me," but I will not be enslaved by anything

And he concludes:
"glorify God in your bodies."

So before you create a Gospel of Moralism, you should understand the unrighteous are not people who sin, they are people who don't believe and continue behaving as unbelievers.



:toofunny



Filibuster!!!!!