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Godsdrummer
01-28-2011, 07:52 AM
I have heard the testimony of many over the years, and testimonys that have been passed down from many. And they all seem to say the same thing, God lead me to this church or God lead me to this denomination, it must be the right place God wants me to be.

I must ask you to take a hard look at this mind set. Does God lead us to one place and stop? Why do we become complacent in the place we have been lead of God to? We are instructed that we are to all continue to grow in Christ, to study to show ourselves approved, a workman that should not find himself/herself in a place that they would be ashamed because they did not continue to study and search the scripture.

I was raised in a church and denomination that preached that we had the "whole truth". Friend there is no whole truth, and those of you that use this phrase should take a long look at the destruction you are bringing on those you preach this false doctrine to.

Back to my original thought, does God lead people into a denomination or church for them to stay there the rest of thier life? I don't think so, for the simple reason stated above, there is not any time and place one comes to a place that they can say they have the "full truth" or the "whole truth".

God leads us to a place where we can grow, and then he will lead us again step by step. I am reminded of this passage in Isaiah,
Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isa 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

The first thing we see hear is that God cannot teach any one doctrine until they are weaned from milk. God will lead us to the place we can recieve his spirit many times this will be in a pentecostal church. Does this mean that is where we are to stop? No!! we are just beginning a new life, not the passage in Isaiah again, precept upon precept, precept upon precept, we never stop growing. Even the Apostals turned to the word even after being with Christ 3 years.

A true child of God will never let themselves get stuck in a rut in thier theology, how do you know if you are stuck in a rut of traditionalism and single mindedness? I you start to say things like I have all the answers, you can't be taught something new because anything new must be false doctrine. Or your way is the only way.

I know many will not agree with this for the simple reasons I have stated, but lets all get back to the word of God for man cannot live by bread alone but by everyword that procedes from the mouth of God.

Cindy
01-28-2011, 08:39 AM
I think you are right on several points. There are not enough of us that do evangelize. Or get out of our comfort zone. We become complacent, and forget we are suppose to be disciples of Jesus Christ.

pastor RICK
01-28-2011, 10:09 AM
people are lead by god to places to allow them to advance.. how can we hear without a preacher . that place where they are should give them a support group,of love,guidance to learn through,,unfortunatly we dont have all the knowledge we need when we get into god ,so we need help.

if god thought we could do it all on our own he would have never created a church to begin with. many err as they withdraw from a body of help ,get crazy ideas in their head .. i mean with everybody sticking together and know they have people who love them around them ,many still struggle...without it they sink.

so yes i feel we can be led to places that willl further our growth,,.......

Godsdrummer
01-29-2011, 06:11 AM
people are lead by god to places to allow them to advance.. how can we hear without a preacher . that place where they are should give them a support group,of love,guidance to learn through,,unfortunatly we dont have all the knowledge we need when we get into god ,so we need help.

if god thought we could do it all on our own he would have never created a church to begin with. many err as they withdraw from a body of help ,get crazy ideas in their head .. i mean with everybody sticking together and know they have people who love them around them ,many still struggle...without it they sink.

so yes i feel we can be led to places that willl further our growth,,.......

Pastor Rick
While I agree with you God did not create the church. At least not the church by our standards. God established the kingdom of God, ie Kingdom of Heaven. As we are the body of Christ we are to assemble ourselves together, and yes we are strengthend together. The point I am making is one testifies that God led them to this one particular church by special means there fore they must have all the truth. I disagree just because God lead you to a certain group does by no means say they have all the answers.

I do agree some within certain groups will never grow beyond that group, others will need to leave as they will grow beyond what the certain group can give them. I have associated with several pastors over my life time, few are progresive as to build growth in the child of God that grows beyond said pastors leval of progresion. Most pastors keep thier people subdued below thier own leval if they can. Those that grow beyond said pastor generaly leave and are then called backsliders.

KeptByTheWord
01-29-2011, 07:59 AM
I agree with you GodsDrummer. It is so very easy to get complacent, and feel that you have it all figured out, and feel safe while being told you have the whole truth. I've experienced that. But when I really began to seek God through fasting and read his word without my "pentecostal" blinders on, is when I really began to know and understand that I really didn't know much at all. The more I study scripture, the more I hunger to study more, and the more I realize I don't know. One thing I've learned through this journey, is that God's ways are not my ways, and my faith, and relationship with Him, must be part of salvation process, not just works alone, as I was taught all my life.

Great points Gods Drummer. God help us all to realize that we haven't arrived, but we are all on a journey to a greater relationship with Him.

BroMatt
01-29-2011, 08:33 AM
:thumbsup

I agree with you GodsDrummer. It is so very easy to get complacent, and feel that you have it all figured out, and feel safe while being told you have the whole truth. I've experienced that. But when I really began to seek God through fasting and read his word without my "pentecostal" blinders on, is when I really began to know and understand that I really didn't know much at all. The more I study scripture, the more I hunger to study more, and the more I realize I don't know. One thing I've learned through this journey, is that God's ways are not my ways, and my faith, and relationship with Him, must be part of salvation process, not just works alone, as I was taught all my life.

Great points Gods Drummer. God help us all to realize that we haven't arrived, but we are all on a journey to a greater relationship with Him.

pastor RICK
01-29-2011, 02:26 PM
Pastor Rick
While I agree with you God did not create the church. At least not the church by our standards. God established the kingdom of God, ie Kingdom of Heaven. As we are the body of Christ we are to assemble ourselves together, and yes we are strengthend together. The point I am making is one testifies that God led them to this one particular church by special means there fore they must have all the truth. I disagree just because God lead you to a certain group does by no means say they have all the answers.

I do agree some within certain groups will never grow beyond that group, others will need to leave as they will grow beyond what the certain group can give them. I have associated with several pastors over my life time, few are progresive as to build growth in the child of God that grows beyond said pastors leval of progresion. Most pastors keep thier people subdued below thier own leval if they can. Those that grow beyond said pastor generaly leave and are then called backsliders.

unfortunatly i agree with with most of that ,should not be true but is ,more than i would like to admit .

however that is not true always ,there are many pastors i know of ,that are pushing themselves to continual growth in god ,and takeing their congregation with them ,as many as will go .. if people are not pushed they will stay in the same ole rut.. i push to get folks to pray ,fast ,study,, witness,to stay on their spiritual toes ,if you dont the devil will blindside you sooner or later with something.

Blessed56
01-29-2011, 07:44 PM
I was led out, and I kicked and screamed and cried for nearly one year.....hard to understand, but my eyes and ears have been open through studying the word, and searching the scriptures for TRUTH...the scripture teaches us to prove all things...many just listen and obey the pastor and never go any further.

pastor RICK
01-29-2011, 07:55 PM
so you dont go to church blessed? if that is what you mean how do you explain hebrews 10;25? just curious.

Blessed56
01-29-2011, 08:46 PM
I believe in assembling in Truth, and to me that does not mean you have to be in a physical building, one can do that in there home.
Heb 6:1 Wherefore leaving the doctrine of the first principles of Christ, let us press on unto perfection; not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 of the teaching of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.
Heb 6:4 For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5 and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6 and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Baptism is a continual renewing of the mind through the word of God and this is the pressing on unto perfection into the fellowship of Christ/Truth. I have heard only doctrinal teachings my whole life, and when you began to prove all things as the Lord commands, you find much confusion and so for me, right now, I have to search out the scriptures. Hope this helps answer your question.

Godsdrummer
01-30-2011, 07:28 AM
so you dont go to church blessed? if that is what you mean how do you explain hebrews 10;25? just curious.

Mat 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Mat 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

We have reverted back to the mentality of the Jew who thought it was more inportant to have the symbol of thier God (ark of the covanant) rather than in thier heart. We have put more emphisis on the builing and preacher than we do relationship with God. They were more worried in what the temple looked like to others than whether God was there.

Jason B
01-30-2011, 01:23 PM
I believe in assembling in Truth, and to me that does not mean you have to be in a physical building, one can do that in there home.
So you don't go to any church, or christian gathering, or fellowship on a regular basis in an environment of prayer and scripture study? You just "do church" unto yourself?

Baptism is a continual renewing of the mind through the word of God and this is the pressing on unto perfection into the fellowship of Christ/Truth. I have heard only doctrinal teachings my whole life, and when you began to prove all things as the Lord commands, you find much confusion and so for me, right now, I have to search out the scriptures. Hope this helps answer your question.
Explain, b/c at firt glance this statement seems ridiculous to me.

Jason B
01-30-2011, 01:37 PM
Mat 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Mat 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.


While were talking context and scripture study, lets point out that this passage isn't actually dealing with the assembly of two or three. But rather with discipline. Actually all it takes is one to call on His name and He is there, I think we'd agree on that.

1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
Come on Drummer, the context of this passage isn't us being a "church" unto ourselves either. It is about a call to a life of righteousness, a life which glorifies the Lord (see also ROmans 12:1). Really this passage in 1 Corinthians 3 cannot be used either FOR or AGAINST church attendance.

We have reverted back to the mentality of the Jew who thought it was more inportant to have the symbol of thier God (ark of the covanant) rather than in thier heart. We have put more emphisis on the builing and preacher than we do relationship with God. They were more worried in what the temple looked like to others than whether God was there.

I don't think thats accurate at all. Are there people who attend church and find a false security in that? YES. Are there people who don't attend church but find a false security in a faith that they actually ignore and don't cultivate? YES. There are those who attend and who don't attend who are lost. And I would say there are those who attend and dont attend who are saved. However, if someone doesn't attend church simply becuase they think they know it all, I believe that is wrong. Theres not a perfect church, its not an excuse to leave all churches.

If someone doesn't like a church "building" fine, if that person is that right, has discovered all Biblical truth, and such, let them start a church in their home. But what if it gets to big, and the choices are either 1)break into smaller groups or 2)there isnt a ready minister and the people prefer to stay united and end up moving to a bigger meeting place-guess what then the home minister just did what they are so critical of others for doing, and this happens all the time. Of course there is a third option 3)sit in isolation, believe your the only one in your city with real truth and live a good moral life while your city is lost, and every christian church in your city is wrong.


Furthermore, Jesus NEVER criticized the idea of going to a synagouge for a religious service. he certainly condemned the attitudes of hypocritical relious folk, ut never the attending synagouge service, and in fact He attended himself. We know that Paul went to synagouges first. The reason He didn't stay there was the gospel message was rejected by the Jews. Do you think if they had wholesale conversion from Judaism to Christianity that they would have QUIT meeting in synagouges? The REASON they met in homes was primarily because they were not welcome to preach Jesus in the synagouges.

Blessed56
01-30-2011, 06:52 PM
We have study in our home and our fellowship is with Christ in Truth. We do not ignore Hebrews 10:25 but gain the full understanding in verse 25 by including the verses that follow. Do Not Forsake Christ for Fellowship....
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself up for it;
Eph 5:26 that he might sanctify it, having cleansed it by the washing of water with the word,
This is the baptism of Christ, that he speaks of in Mark 10, that brings about salvation. The baptism of John is symbolic of the spiritual washing through the word of God. The true baptism.
Tit 3:4 But when the kindness of God our Saviour, and his love toward man, appeared,
Tit 3:5 not by works done in righteousness, which we did ourselves, but according to his mercy he saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
Tit 3:6 which he poured out upon us richly, through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Tit 3:7 that, being justified by his grace, we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Also read John 4:14.....
1Co 10:1 For I would not, brethren, have you ignorant, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Co 10:2 and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:3 and did all eat the same spiritual food;
1Co 10:4 and did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of a spiritual rock that followed them: and the rock was Christ.
Christ is the baptism... The word of God, that renews the mind to bring about the sufferings to bring us into obedience, daily.

Godsdrummer
01-31-2011, 07:40 AM
Come on Drummer, the context of this passage isn't us being a "church" unto ourselves either. It is about a call to a life of righteousness, a life which glorifies the Lord (see also ROmans 12:1).
Really this passage in 1 Corinthians 3 cannot be used either FOR or AGAINST church attendance.




You are missing the point, no one is saying we don't need to meet together, what I am saying is that we have made the building more important than the true temple of God. And yes I Corintians 3 does teach us that God does not dwell in temples made by hands, which is the point I wanted to bring out.

Let me ask you a question, when you attend your "church" building, do you get dressed up? Why? If God is within you why get dressed up two or three times a week when you go to church? My point we have made the building more important than serving God. You count your success to reaching the lost by the # of people you have in attendance, and how big and beautiful your temple is. This is not the kingdom God!!! this is mans kingdom, and mans temple.

Every thing that you have said is all designed to get people to attend mans kingdom so he can build his temples, not Gods kingdom. All these teachings are the same as the trinity they all come from idolitry that came inot the church after Constitine converted. Priestly authority does not come from Judism, it comes from temples of idol worshipers.

So instead of putting down those that no longer attend your temples of man maybe you should fulfill the command of Christ and fellowship with love, instead of pushing your doctrines, maybe you need to learn and discuss the scripture with those like us.

You just might learn somthing I know I did.