Was Jesus saved by faith or by works?

[jfrog]

Was Jesus saved? If so was he saved by faith or by works? Thoughts? Opinions?

[NotforSale]

Was Jesus saved? If so was he saved by faith or by works? Thoughts? Opinions?

:toofunny

[TGBTG]

FYI: Jesus is the Savior of all men.

The Savior does not need to be saved, else how can he be Savior?

[LUKE2447]

Well depends on what is meant by saved. Delivered from the flesh? Yes! Was he saved in the sense of needing atonement for sin? No!

Did Jesus fulfill law by faith or by works of the law?

[jfrog]

Well depends on what is meant by saved. Delivered from the flesh? Yes! Was he saved in the sense of needing atonement for sin? No!

Did Jesus fulfill law by faith or by works of the law?

It does depend on what is meant by saved. Was he saved from sin? Of course not. So that's not what I am asking. What most people mean when they mention salvation is whether a person is spared from hell and Jesus most definetely was spared from hell.

So how did Jesus accomplish being spared from hell? Was it by his faith or by his works?

[Hoovie]

It does depend on what is meant by saved. Was he saved from sin? Of course not. So that's not what I am asking. What most people mean when they mention salvation is whether a person is spared from hell and Jesus most definetely was spared from hell.

So how did Jesus accomplish being spared from hell? Was it by his faith or by his works?

Bad question. He did not need sparing from Hell.

[jfrog]

Bad question. He did not need sparing from Hell.

So he was heaven bound regardless of anything he believed or did?

[LUKE2447]

So he was heaven bound regardless of anything he believed or did?

Answer my question that I had.

No, not until he died and was considered faithful and was tested and found worthy.

[LUKE2447]

Did Jesus fulfill law by faith or by works of the law?

[Hoovie]

So he was heaven bound regardless of anything he believed or did?

Pretty much. He had no capacity for sin or evil - inspite of being tempted. He was perfect in all things.

[LUKE2447]

Pretty much. He had no capacity for sin or evil - inspite of being tempted. He was perfect in all things.

no capacity? Please define.

[Hoovie]

no capacity? Please define.

He could not sin. His faith was perfect. His works were perfect. Yet his faith and his works did not give him perfection. Rather His perfection spoke of who he was - God Himself.

[LUKE2447]

He could not sin. His faith was perfect. His works were perfect. Yet his faith and his works did not give him perfection. Rather His perfection spoke of who he was - God Himself.

I understand your point but either he was a authentic man or a fraud as a kinsman redeemer. Did his flesh war against the Spirit?

[Praxeas]

Was Jesus saved? If so was he saved by faith or by works? Thoughts? Opinions?
He was not saved nor lost. He did not need to be saved

[Austin]

Was Jesus saved? If so was he saved by faith or by works? Thoughts? Opinions?
Faith is always before works or else there would be no works at all. But this I'm not applying to Jesus because he overcame all things that were sin by his own nature. For it was impossible for him to sin according to the scriptures.

[Hoovie]

I understand your point but either he was a authentic man or a fraud as a kinsman redeemer. Did his flesh war against the Spirit?

I think he authentically experienced temptation. There was a "war" perhaps, but not a battle was lost. While he was the kinsman redeemer, there was never another like him, nor ever will be.

Personally, I am content to let some things lie unanswered within the unique mystery of the incarnation.

[Austin]

I understand your point but either he was a authentic man or a fraud as a kinsman redeemer. Did his flesh war against the Spirit?

The scriptures said he was tempted in every respect that we are tempted but did not sin.

[mfblume]

Jesus was not saved. He did not need to be saved. He was not lost.

[Raven]

Heb 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

[jfrog]

Jesus was not saved. He did not need to be saved. He was not lost.

Saying he was saved does not imply he was lost.

[jfrog]

He was not saved nor lost. He did not need to be saved

Next time understand what I am asking before trying to apply your current definition of a word to my question. As commonly used the word saved means heaven-bound. Sometimes even you probably use it this way. Regardless it's not important how you use it. It is important how it is used. So when I ask if Jesus was saved I was asking if Jesus was heaven-bound. The answer to that question should be obvious. Then I went on to ask about what made him heaven-bound: whether it was faith or works?

Instead all I get are responses about Jesus not needing a savior. Well duh, it's obvious he didn't because he was sinless. But my question wasn't about whether he had sinned or not. My question was about whether faith played a role in him being heaven-bound or whether it was just his works (him remaining sinless).

[jfrog]

Answer my question that I had.

No, not until he died and was considered faithful and was tested and found worthy.

Did Jesus fulfill law by faith or by works of the law?

Isn't that basically the same question I asked? ...It may not be exactly but it is along the same line of thought. So why would I even attempt to answer that question when by answering it I would answer my own? Now if you are trying to ask my opinion on my own question then I'll give it soon enough. I'm hoping to get everyone on the same page before I do though.

[jfrog]

Heb 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

:thumbsup Good verse. Not the route I was wanting to take but good point nonetheless. Maybe it will at least get some others to consider using the words "Jesus was saved" in a sentence together.

[LUKE2447]

Isn't that basically the same question I asked? ...It may not be exactly but it is along the same line of thought. So why would I even attempt to answer that question when by answering it I would answer my own? Now if you are trying to ask my opinion on my own question then I'll give it soon enough. I'm hoping to get everyone on the same page before I do though.

Actually no it is not. Works are about source and have to be differentiated.

[jfrog]

Actually no it is not. Works are about source and have to be differentiated.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Will you elaborate?

[mfblume]

Heb 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
Salvation from death is a far cry from salvation we require. When He prayed for salvation from death He was praying, "If it be possible, let this cup pass from me." That is what Hebrews was referring to.

[mfblume]

Saying he was saved does not imply he was lost.

What does it imply then?

[jfrog]

What does it imply then?

That he was heaven-bound.

[mfblume]

That he was heaven-bound.

Why would he have to be saved to be heaven-bound?

[aegsm76]

Maybe I'm missing some deep theological thought, but if he was the creator and had all power, why would he need to be saved?

[jfrog]

Why would he have to be saved to be heaven-bound?

You asked what saved means. I told you. Now you are rejecting my definition when most of christianity uses saved the same way I just explained. Come on. Stop arguing over definitions and let's get to the actual meaning.

[jfrog]

Maybe I'm missing some deep theological thought, but if he was the creator and had all power, why would he need to be saved?

Considering the verse Raven cited says he was saved from death... I think your application of deity to this question isn't the solution.

[aegsm76]

Considering the verse Raven cited says he was saved from death... I think your application of deity to this question isn't the solution.

I think it is. :happydance

[mfblume]

You asked what saved means. I told you. Now you are rejecting my definition when most of christianity uses saved the same way I just explained. Come on. Stop arguing over definitions and let's get to the actual meaning.

I am not rejecting it. I am asking for the reasoning of why Jesus would have to be saved to be heaven-bound. I fail to see the required connection and I want your explanation, is all.

[mfblume]

Considering the verse Raven cited says he was saved from death... I think your application of deity to this question isn't the solution.

Does nobody anymore understand the basic concept of the belief that Jesus was man and God, whether they agree with it or not?

[jfrog]

I am not rejecting it. I am asking for the reasoning of why Jesus would have to be saved to be heaven-bound. I fail to see the required connection and I want your explanation, is all.

I never said he had to be saved to be heaven bound... I SAID: being saved means heaven bound. There's a vast world of difference between what I said and what you keep asking about.

[jfrog]

Does nobody anymore understand the basic concept of the belief that Jesus was man and God, whether they agree with it or not?

Yes I understand the belief quite well. I don't think applying it to a question about how Jesus was saved counts as an argument for refusing to say Jesus was saved when the bible talks about Jesus being saved from death.

[mfblume]

I never said he had to be saved to be heaven bound... I SAID: being saved means heaven bound. There's a vast world of difference between what I said and what you keep asking about.

Well, then be more clear about it. lol

So from our perspective if being saved means heaven-bound, then we are supposed to think Jesus needed salvation since He was on His way to Heaven. Nah, don't think so. Being Heaven-bound is not being saved when it comes to One like Jesus who came from there and simply returned. Unless you're not being clear again.

[jfrog]

Well, then be more clear about it. lol

So from our perspective if being saved means heaven-bound, then we are supposed to think Jesus needed salvation since He was on His way to Heaven. Nah, don't think so. Being Heaven-bound is not being saved when it comes to One like Jesus who came from there and simply returned. Unless you're not being clear again.

Blume get past the word saved. Apparently in your vocabularly it has nothing to do with what I am trying to ask and that's fine. Just move on past it. Now, I told you when I said saved I meant heaven-bound. So replace my use of saved with heaven-bound. Tada! Can we finally get to the question I was asking? Was Jesus heaven bound because of his faith or because of his works?

[mfblume]

Yes I understand the belief quite well. I don't think applying it to a question about how Jesus was saved counts as an argument for refusing to say Jesus was saved when the bible talks about Jesus being saved from death.
"Saved" in the common understanding that people will respond to when you use that term is not the same thing as Jesus being saved from death. From our perspective "saved" implies that we were lost in sin and we were rescued from it. That is why everyone will respond the way they do.

You claimed salvation means heaven-bound. That does not apply whatsoever to the passage that states Jesus was saved from death. Saved from death simply meant delivered from being crucified. How could that relate to being heaven-bound?

[mfblume]

Blume get past the word saved. Apparently in your vocabularly it has nothing to do with what I am trying to ask and that's fine. Just move on past it. Now, I told you when I said saved I meant heaven-bound. So replace my use of saved with heaven-bound. Tada! Can we finally get to the question I was asking? Was Jesus heaven bound because of his faith or because of his works?

Forgive me, I just was missing your point. But my answer is neither. He was heaven-bound because of His identity.

[jfrog]

Forgive me, I just was missing your point. But my answer is neither. Because of His identity.

Which part of his identity?

[mfblume]

Which part of his identity?

Every part. He was come from Heaven and belonged there. His person. His position as son of David. His calling as High Priest and King of Kings from his human perspective.

[jfrog]

Forgive me, I just was missing your point. But my answer is neither. He was heaven-bound because of His identity.

:thumbsup It's okay. I apologize for using the word saved when I could have used heaven bound. Though at the time I started the thread I could not think of any other term that adaquetly described what I was trying to ask. The word saved as used sometimes was the closest thing.

[jfrog]

Every part. He was come from Heaven and belonged there. His person. His position as son of David. His calling as High Priest and King of Kings from his human perspective.

In some sense I can see your point. But Jesus was a man also and so he had to also do the things that allowed men to go to heaven. Were those things he had to do as a man related to his faith or his works?

[mfblume]

Jesus was going to heaven because there had to be a MAN ruling the earth on the throne of David. That throne is the throne He now sits on. David's throne is not indicative of a location for example in the middle east. It's just speaking of David's dynasty, and Christ is son of David.

So, Jesus is ruling now over earth just as Adam was meant to rule. He is Last Adam. He as a glorified man is as Adam would have been had he not sinned. The placement of Christ in Heaven is solely for the purpose of Kingdom on earth.

This idea of dying to ultimately go to heaven for the sake of being in paradise is error.

[mfblume]

In some sense I can see your point. But Jesus was a man also and so he had to also do the things that allowed men to go to heaven. Were those things he had to do as a man related to his faith or his works?

In general, doing things in the earth were the result of genuine human faith. But He did not have to do anything, I believe, except stand for all men's deaths in order to go to Heaven. But I do not see going to heaven and why we go there in the way many do. To me, it's all about KINGDOM. Man was not created to die and go to Heaven. Man was created to rule the earth. Jesus is only held and retained there until all things are reconciled. He as a man is not meant to stay there.

(ducking from the stones from varying directions)


Acts 3:21 KJV Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

[Raven]

In general, doing things in the earth were the result of genuine human faith. But He did not have to do anything, I believe, except stand for all men's deaths in order to go to Heaven. But I do not see going to heaven and why we go there in the way many do. To me, it's all about KINGDOM. Man was not created to die and go to Heaven. Man was created to rule the earth. Jesus is only held and retained there until all things are reconciled. He as a man is not meant to stay there.(ducking from the stones from varying directions)


Acts 3:21 KJV Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Amen! I'm with you there!

[Praxeas]

Saying he was saved does not imply he was lost.
It does if you are using the word saved in a "salvational" way.

[Praxeas]

Was Jesus saved? If so was he saved by faith or by works? Thoughts? Opinions?

Next time understand what I am asking before trying to apply your current definition of a word to my question.
Hmmm... Gee Jfrog, how WAS I supposed to understand your words?

Gee, what usually is the topic of a "saved by faith or by works" discussion? Hmmm..pardon me for not reading your mind since all you asked was a question and not gave an elaborate definition to what you mean by "saved"

Good grief :heeheehee

[jfrog]

Hmmm... Gee Jfrog, how WAS I supposed to understand your words?

Gee, what usually is the topic of a "saved by faith or by works" discussion? Hmmm..pardon me for not reading your mind since all you asked was a question and not gave an elaborate definition to what you mean by "saved"

Good grief :heeheehee

You're forgiven. Forgive me also for not being better able to phrase my question at the start. There just wasn't a good way to say what I wanted to say until I thought of the term heaven bound. But now that that's all cleared up can we move on and discuss the question I was trying to ask in my first post?

[Praxeas]

You're forgiven. Forgive me also for not being better able to make my point at the start. There just wasn't a good way to say what I wanted to say until I thought of the term heaven bound. But now that that's all cleared up can we move on and discuss the question I was trying to ask in my first post?
I don't understand what you mean by saved, faith and works. Since clearly you are indicating you mean something other than conventional thought.

Please define these terms

[jfrog]

I don't understand what you mean by saved, faith and works. Since clearly you are indicating you mean something other than conventional thought.

Please define these terms

I think my question translates into: Was Jesus heaven bound because of his faith or because of his works?

By the way... do I really need to define faith and works? (I'm pretty sure I'm using them in the conventional sense).