Question For Aegsm & Hometown Guy

[CC1]

As two resident conservatives / ultra conservatives (UC's) I have a question for you. For years I have been waiting for one of my ultra con brothers to explain to me the obsession with keeping elbows covered up.

A common "standard" (extra biblical legalism) shared by virtually all conservative Oneness Pentecostal churches that I know of is a prohibition against short sleeve shirts / blouses on both men and woman.

Since the only part of the anatomy this causes to be covered is the elbow I am
fascinated to learn what it is about elbows that ultra cons find immodest, tempting, lustful, ungodly, etc.

I eagerly wait to be edjumacated (a Tennessee term)!!!

[hometown guy]

I personally always wear long sleeves and my wife at least three quarter length sleeves. Our church standard is three quarter length sleeves. This is our standard not a bible stance. We teach that since your elbow is the middle of your arm that covering it would be a pretty safe place for modesty. We do not teach that showing your elbows will doom you to hell but we do teach that immodesty will send you to hell. We believe somewhere someone has to draw the line for the local assembly and who better then the shepherd of the church.

[Theophil]

I personally always wear long sleeves and my wife at least three quarter length sleeves. Our church standard is three quarter length sleeves. This is our standard not a bible stance. We teach that since your elbow is the middle of your arm that covering it would be a pretty safe place for modesty. We do not teach that showing your elbows will doom you to hell but we do teach that immodesty will send you to hell. We believe somewhere someone has to draw the line for the local assembly and who better then the shepherd of the church.

Do you ever think for yourself or do you just let the "shepherd" do that for you?

[bishoph]

Glad to see I've been replaced as the resident con....lol :D

While I have never had the "below the elbow" requirement, I have served under pastors that did. They basically all taught it just as Hometown Guy stated......it is a line that the pastor draws for his assembly. I have never heard it taught as a heaven or hell issue, however, non-compliance will exclude one from leadership; which I have no problem with, as all churches have leadership guidelines (written or practiced) including the ultra libs:neener

[hometown guy]

Do you ever think for yourself or do you just let the "shepherd" do that for you?

I do think for my self that is why I have chose the more conservative life style rather then a liberal life style. I did not grow up in a conservative church nor home but when I got married and had children I had more to worry about then just me (cause I always had a pretty conservative view) so we started attending a more conservative church.

[MissBrattified]

Do you ever think for yourself or do you just let the "shepherd" do that for you?

Theophil, complying with local church leadership doesn't mean you don't "think for yourself."

[Hoovie]

I have always figured the anti tee shirt rule was started by some white collar dudes who did not do a lot of roofing and rehabs! LOL

You know, that "it's so much cooler with long sleeves and a buttoned up collar" line? Not true. :)

[hometown guy]

Theophil, complying with local church leadership doesn't mean you don't "think for yourself."

Thank you:thumbsup

[RandyWayne]

Theophil, complying with local church leadership doesn't mean you don't "think for yourself."

To be fair, sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't. I can think of at least a dozen from my old church I attended as a teen who fell into the "why think for myself when the pastor does it for me" camp. They were the ones who came up to you after doing virtually anything big outside of church (such as planning a vacation, buying a car, going on a date, etc) and saying "did you get pastors permission???".

One can only imagine how I used to have fun with them!

[hometown guy]

I have always figured the anti tee shirt rule was started by some white collar dudes who did not do a lot of roofing and rehabs! LOL

You know, that line about "it's so much cooler with long sleeves and a buttoned up collar" line? Not true. :)

I was a youth pastor for 5 years in a city that got over 100* and it does keep you cooler when the direct sun....that is one reason why you see the field workers covered from head to toe in the hotter part of the year.

[hometown guy]

To be fair, sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't. I can think of at least a dozen from my old church I attended as a teen who fell into the "why think for myself when the pastor does it for me" camp. They were the ones who came up to you after doing virtually anything big outside of church (such as planning a vacation, buying a car, going on a date, etc) and saying "did you get pastors permission???".

One can only imagine how I used to have fun with them!

to be really fair everyone has rules, some are just stricter then others, so you can say that about people in any camp.

[aegsm76]

Interesting question.
All of my growing up years, I never knew there was a cover the elbow standard, as my pastor never preached against short sleeves.
I really first encountered it when I moved to another church about 15 years ago.
It was not taught as a biblical standard, but the pastor explained that he did not want to have to worry about sleeves that were too short (as in women praying in the alter with short or no sleeves). So, he requested that sleeves come below the elbow for men and women.
He was very open about there being no Bible for it and was emphatic about the church not being self-righteous to those who had different standards than us.
Also, this was a church that you could feel the Lord when you opened the door to go in.
We were also growing rapidly, with many new converts.
The church that I am in now, although I would consider us UC, does not teach against short sleeves. Although I don't see any short sleeves on the platform.
I have never heard the pastor teach on it, but he is the type that if he has an issue with you, he will come to you rather than make it a point over the pulpit.
I do work with some of the young people and if we attend a church or function where there are those who we know have the long sleeve standard we will wear long sleeves, just so we will not offend.
Now, back to your original point.
Have you ever seen what happens when a woman with loose short sleeves raises her hands above her head?
There are some parts of the body exposed that I really do not want to see!
I would guess that is where the "rule" came from.

[notofworks]

Theophil, complying with local church leadership doesn't mean you don't "think for yourself."


Well, at a certain point it does. If the local leadership says to jump off the Golden Gate Bridge and you do it, you're not thinking for yourself. We have to draw the line somewhere.:lol

Oh wow, I just made myself laugh with that line.

[Hoovie]

Well, at a certain point it does. If the local leadership says to jump off the Golden Gate Bridge and you do it, you're not thinking for yourself. We have to draw the line somewhere.:lol

Oh wow, I just made myself laugh with that line.

Yeah, but even then, is it worth losing your soul to save your body?

[Hoovie]

I was a youth pastor for 5 years in a city that got over 100* and it does keep you cooler when the direct sun....that is one reason why you see the field workers covered from head to toe in the hotter part of the year.

My guess is it keeps them from getting scorched by direct sun.

But again, I don't see very many construction workers in layered full length clothing. Have they just not discovered the key to being cool?

[berkeley]

I really don't get the "shirt below the elbow" standard combined with the "shorts are immodest" standard. What a contradiction.

[hometown guy]

I really don't get the "shirt below the elbow" standard combined with the "shorts are immodest" standard. What a contradiction.

I have never heard anyone say that shorts are immodest. lol we just teach the a man has hairy ol nasty legs so cover them up:heeheehee

[berkeley]

I have never heard anyone say that shorts are immodest. lol we just teach the a man has hairy ol nasty legs so cover them up:heeheehee

¡Que ridiculo! You have the choice not to look at the dudes legs. Nobody in the real world notices a guys legs. What about skirts? Are women allowed to wear skirts below the knee?

[hometown guy]

¡Que ridiculo! You have the choice not to look at the dudes legs. Nobody in the real world notices a guys legs. What about skirts? Are women allowed to wear skirts below the knee?

Please notice the "lol" and the ":heeheehee" ................it is just a standard that we have.

[*AQuietPlace*]

The reasoning is usually along the lines of - the knee is where we draw the line on the legs (women anyway), so elbows is a good, corresponding point to set on the arms. That once you get above the elbows, the sleeve length will go shorter and shorter and shorter since there isn't a set stopping point.

[MawMaw]

My guess is it keeps them from getting scorched by direct sun.

But again, I don't see very many construction workers in layered full length clothing. Have they just not discovered the key to being cool?

My husband welds for a living. He works construction and he is required to wear long sleeve shirts long pants welding cap welding shield in frigid weather or hot sticky summer weather.

He has told me many times how he sees some of the other guys who don't weld and don't have to wear the full cover, sweating way more than him. LOL, it always amazes him. :p

[MawMaw]

Interesting question.
All of my growing up years, I never knew there was a cover the elbow standard, as my pastor never preached against short sleeves.
I really first encountered it when I moved to another church about 15 years ago.
It was not taught as a biblical standard, but the pastor explained that he did not want to have to worry about sleeves that were too short (as in women praying in the alter with short or no sleeves). So, he requested that sleeves come below the elbow for men and women.
He was very open about there being no Bible for it and was emphatic about the church not being self-righteous to those who had different standards than us.
Also, this was a church that you could feel the Lord when you opened the door to go in.
We were also growing rapidly, with many new converts.
The church that I am in now, although I would consider us UC, does not teach against short sleeves. Although I don't see any short sleeves on the platform.
I have never heard the pastor teach on it, but he is the type that if he has an issue with you, he will come to you rather than make it a point over the pulpit.
I do work with some of the young people and if we attend a church or function where there are those who we know have the long sleeve standard we will wear long sleeves, just so we will not offend.
Now, back to your original point.
Have you ever seen what happens when a woman with loose short sleeves raises her hands above her head?There are some parts of the body exposed that I really do not want to see!
I would guess that is where the "rule" came from.

Exactly, and it can be said of men too...........some stuff is better left unseen thank you. LOL

[Praxeas]

Glad to see I've been replaced as the resident con....lol :D

While I have never had the "below the elbow" requirement, I have served under pastors that did. They basically all taught it just as Hometown Guy stated......it is a line that the pastor draws for his assembly. I have never heard it taught as a heaven or hell issue, however, non-compliance will exclude one from leadership; which I have no problem with, as all churches have leadership guidelines (written or practiced) including the ultra libs:neener
Here is a question or two. Why should a pastor set that line particularly if it is not a heaven or hell issue. Where does the bible give that kind of power to one individual over a church?

Why should any church have leadership guidelines other than biblical ones?

[Praxeas]

The reasoning is usually along the lines of - the knee is where we draw the line on the legs (women anyway), so elbows is a good, corresponding point to set on the arms. That once you get above the elbows, the sleeve length will go shorter and shorter and shorter since there isn't a set stopping point.
Isn't it really "this is where I draw the line and Im the Pastor and you must obey me"?

[Praxeas]

Interesting question.
All of my growing up years, I never knew there was a cover the elbow standard, as my pastor never preached against short sleeves.
I really first encountered it when I moved to another church about 15 years ago.
It was not taught as a biblical standard, but the pastor explained that he did not want to have to worry about sleeves that were too short (as in women praying in the alter with short or no sleeves). So, he requested that sleeves come below the elbow for men and women.
He was very open about there being no Bible for it and was emphatic about the church not being self-righteous to those who had different standards than us.
Also, this was a church that you could feel the Lord when you opened the door to go in.
We were also growing rapidly, with many new converts.
The church that I am in now, although I would consider us UC, does not teach against short sleeves. Although I don't see any short sleeves on the platform.
I have never heard the pastor teach on it, but he is the type that if he has an issue with you, he will come to you rather than make it a point over the pulpit.
I do work with some of the young people and if we attend a church or function where there are those who we know have the long sleeve standard we will wear long sleeves, just so we will not offend.
Now, back to your original point.
Have you ever seen what happens when a woman with loose short sleeves raises her hands above her head?
There are some parts of the body exposed that I really do not want to see!
I would guess that is where the "rule" came from.
To be honest, no I've never seen what happens. I rarely look at women's arms or arm pits

[RandyWayne]

Here is a question or two. Why should a pastor set that line particularly if it is not a heaven or hell issue. Where does the bible give that kind of power to one individual over a church?

Why should any church have leadership guidelines other than biblical ones?

I've found that the thing that separates a normal church from an UC one isn't necessarily the amount of standards and things "preached against!" but rather the degree that the pastor, aka "man of God!" is held in reverence as the supreme leader of the assembly. By this definition I have known more than one church where they may not have held to the strictest rule set but the pastor was the unquestionable king of the roost and would indeed consider them a UC church. These are churches where the pastor is expected to give his permission for any number of things such as vacations, moving, job changes, dating or marriage, and the rest of the usual laundry list.

[Praxeas]

I do think for my self that is why I have chose the more conservative life style rather then a liberal life style. I did not grow up in a conservative church nor home but when I got married and had children I had more to worry about then just me (cause I always had a pretty conservative view) so we started attending a more conservative church.
Ok, so the church you grew up in did not teach sleeves to the elbow and you just felt that was the right thing to teach and so you changed churches because the one you switched to did teach that kind of stuff you were never taught? If you were never taught that how did you come to the conclusion that sleeves above the elbows is a liberal lifestyle on your own?

[Praxeas]

I've found that the thing that separates a normal church from an UC one isn't necessarily the amount of standards and things "preached against!" but rather the degree that the pastor, aka "man of God!" is held in reverence as the supreme leader of the assembly. By this definition I have known more than one church where they may not have held to the strictest rule set but the pastor was the unquestionable king of the roost and would indeed consider them a UC church.
I would somewhat agree that that kind of goes hand in hand with my thread on priorities

[RandyWayne]

My guess is it keeps them from getting scorched by direct sun.

But again, I don't see very many construction workers in layered full length clothing. Have they just not discovered the key to being cool?

To be fair here in Arizona there are quite a few construction workers who dress to the hilt -for safety purposes as well as landscape workers who wear what look like wool sweaters and pants combined with full head gear but the purpose is strictly sun protection. I've asked them half jokingly "so do you get hot?" when they've been to our house and they say "yes, but not nearly as hot as the noon day sun hitting exposed skin all day". So yes, like you said it is all about avoiding skin cancer from the Sun. :)

[Praxeas]

To be fair here in Arizona there are quite a few construction workers who dress to the hilt -for safety purposes as well as landscape workers who wear what look like wool sweaters and pants combined with full head gear but the purpose is strictly sun protection. I've asked them half jokingly "so do you get hot?" when they've been to our house and they say "yes, but not nearly as hot as the noon day sun hitting exposed skin all day". So yes, like you said it is all about avoiding skin cancer from the Sun. :)
Sometimes it just depends on how much you are moving and getting the air to move over the surface of our body. How many long distance runners wear sweat pants and tops?

[hometown guy]

Ok, so the church you grew up in did not teach sleeves to the elbow and you just felt that was the right thing to teach and so you changed churches because the one you switched to did teach that kind of stuff you were never taught? If you were never taught that how did you come to the conclusion that sleeves above the elbows is a liberal lifestyle on your own?

No...It really had nothing to do with "sleeves" it had to do with other things but I would perfer not to mention because i still respect my old pastor from the church I grew up in and since people know him and who I am, I would rather not say the reasons

[Praxeas]

No...It really had nothing to do with "sleeves" it had to do with other things but I would perfer not to mention because i still respect my old pastor from the church I grew up in and since people know him and who I am, I would rather not say the reasons
Ok so while growing up in that less than conservative church not being taught the more conservative values, you came to these values all on your own and decided you needed to find a church that taught the same values? How did you come to these values while sitting in that less than conservative church?

[Praxeas]

Oh and if it was not sleeves then when did you come to the conclusion about sleeves? Was it after changing to a more conservative church?

[hometown guy]

Ok so while growing up in that less than conservative church not being taught the more conservative values, you came to these values all on your own and decided you needed to find a church that taught the same values? How did you come to these values while sitting in that less than conservative church?

Actually My first pastor was a little more conservative then my 2nd pastor so I had both sides. So when I moved I chose the more conservative route. I have been under 5 pastors so I have seen alot of different views

[hometown guy]

Oh and if it was not sleeves then when did you come to the conclusion about sleeves? Was it after changing to a more conservative church?

I did come to that conclusion after I was taught about modesty from a more conservative church

[Praxeas]

Actually My first pastor was a little more conservative then my 2nd pastor so I had both sides. So when I moved I chose the more conservative route. I have been under 5 pastors so I have seen alot of different views
I see, but that doesn't sound like it was purely a self willed decision to believe that way. You were in fact raised to think that way.

[Praxeas]

I did come to that conclusion after I was taught about modesty from a more conservative church
Thank you

[Theophil]

Here is a question or two. Why should a pastor set that line particularly if it is not a heaven or hell issue. Where does the bible give that kind of power to one individual over a church?

Why should any church have leadership guidelines other than biblical ones?

Great questions!

[CC1]

To be honest, no I've never seen what happens. I rarely look at women's arms or arm pits

Yup. Requiring woman to have sleeves below their elbow to prevent accidental exposure of their breasts is like preaching against people driving cars so they will never have any accidents.

I have been a cruisematic for several decades now and the three churches I have attended over the past 28 years all had women wearing short sleeves or no sleeves and I have NEVER seen a woman expose herself because of them. Two of the three churches each had over 1,500 members.

[RandyWayne]

Yup. Requiring woman to have sleeves below their elbow to prevent accidental exposure of their breasts is like preaching against people driving cars so they will never have any accidents.

I have been a cruisematic for several decades now and the three churches I have attended over the past 28 years all had women wearing short sleeves or no sleeves and I have NEVER seen a woman expose herself because of them. Two of the three churches each had over 1,500 members.

I think they would pretty much have to be wearing a tank top with no bra on underneath for that to happen.

But isn't that an example of the extreme situations that many use to justify something? "So you don't think women should be required to wear a dress to their ankles? I suppose you think it is OK for them to come to church in a bikini as well!"

[aegsm76]

Ok, so the church you grew up in did not teach sleeves to the elbow and you just felt that was the right thing to teach and so you changed churches because the one you switched to did teach that kind of stuff you were never taught? If you were never taught that how did you come to the conclusion that sleeves above the elbows is a liberal lifestyle on your own?

No, I moved 1000 miles away. That's why I changed churches. I do not believe that sleeves above the elbow is a liberal issue. I know many UC or moderate churches who have no problem with short sleeves.
The church that I grew up in never talked about sleeves, from what I can recall.

[aegsm76]

I've found that the thing that separates a normal church from an UC one isn't necessarily the amount of standards and things "preached against!" but rather the degree that the pastor, aka "man of God!" is held in reverence as the supreme leader of the assembly. By this definition I have known more than one church where they may not have held to the strictest rule set but the pastor was the unquestionable king of the roost and would indeed consider them a UC church. These are churches where the pastor is expected to give his permission for any number of things such as vacations, moving, job changes, dating or marriage, and the rest of the usual laundry list.

I would say that this is true of many liberal churches as well. I was at a youth function at a very liberal church and I made the mistake of sitting in the pastor's chair. I knew that he was not going to be there, and it was the only one left. One of the dear sisters quickly came up to me and informed me that that was the pastor's chair and he did not like anyone else to sit there.
She got me another chair and I moved.
I've never seen that at any other church I have been in.
So, it ain't just the UC's that have this issue.

[aegsm76]

Yup. Requiring woman to have sleeves below their elbow to prevent accidental exposure of their breasts is like preaching against people driving cars so they will never have any accidents.

I have been a cruisematic for several decades now and the three churches I have attended over the past 28 years all had women wearing short sleeves or no sleeves and I have NEVER seen a woman expose herself because of them. Two of the three churches each had over 1,500 members.

CC1 - I've seen it several times. How many of those churches had shockamoos going on...:icecream

[aegsm76]

I happened to read this verse this morning and think it ties into this discussion.

Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
II Thessalonians 2:15

[seguidordejesus]

I happened to read this verse this morning and think it ties into this discussion.

Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
II Thessalonians 2:15

If that were true (in YOUR interpretation), no one would ever change religions.

[RandyWayne]

I would say that this is true of many liberal churches as well. I was at a youth function at a very liberal church and I made the mistake of sitting in the pastor's chair. I knew that he was not going to be there, and it was the only one left. One of the dear sisters quickly came up to me and informed me that that was the pastor's chair and he did not like anyone else to sit there.
She got me another chair and I moved.
I've never seen that at any other church I have been in.
So, it ain't just the UC's that have this issue.

That is exactly the point I made. The label UC isn't necessarily defined by how many or how strict the standards are. Now they usually are far more strict but not always......

[Theophil]

I find it amazing and frustrating that while the world goes to hell in a handbasket there are groups of people disputing things like sleeves, women's pants, hair length, etc., etc., ad nauseum.

[RandyWayne]

I find it amazing and frustrating that while the world goes to hell in a handbasket there are groups of people disputing things like sleeves, women's pants, hair length, etc., etc., ad nauseum.

It is what gets the mighty shouts of "Amen!" and "Preach it!" during a sermon.

[Hoovie]

CC1 - I've seen it several times. How many of those churches had shockamoos going on...:icecream

Lol! Right. This has potenialof being another thread altogether. I think we need some teaching on this. IF someone indulges in shockamoo they should know they are responsible for their own body parts. The amount of clothing being worn makes little difference I'm afraid. Further complicating things is the fact that these seem to gravitate up front. What's up with that?

[hometown guy]

I find it amazing and frustrating that while the world goes to hell in a handbasket there are groups of people disputing things like sleeves, women's pants, hair length, etc., etc., ad nauseum.

At our churches we are not disputing things like that ( just here on AFF )....and we know the world is headed to hell and thats why we still preach and teach against women wearing pants, hair length, ect.,etc,.....were trying to help them to live a life that is pleasing to God and not their flesh.

[berkeley]

Reminds me of a service I was in. A woman was jumping... she went up, her body parts went down. Woman went down, her body parts went up.
Hilary Swank could have given her lessons on how to wrap them so they don't move.

[Theophil]

At our churches we are not disputing things like that ( just here on AFF )....and we know the world is headed to hell and thats why we still preach and teach against women wearing pants, hair length, ect.,etc,.....were trying to help them to live a life that is pleasing to God and not their flesh.

Exactly what I just said. This so frustrating a I can't even waste any more time on this foolishness. Adios.

[CC1]

I find it amazing and frustrating that while the world goes to hell in a handbasket there are groups of people disputing things like sleeves, women's pants, hair length, etc., etc., ad nauseum.

Yup. Sometimes the devil doesn't have to do much work himself. People will get off in a ditch all on their own and make the Gospel so complicated and illogical it keeps people from it.

[hometown guy]

Yup. Sometimes the devil doesn't have to do much work himself. People will get off in a ditch all on their own and make the Gospel so complicated and illogical it keeps people from it.

And some people make the gospel in such away that the devil himself can make it.

[CC1]

And some people make the gospel in such away that the devil himself can make it.

That statement is one of the most absurd I have heard if you are aiming it at lib Pentecostals. I don't believe the devil himself is going to commit his life to the Lord, ask God for forgiveness, and follow God's Word.

This is the different in libs and cons for the most part. I don't question your salvation or devotion to God but you try and paint those who are not obsessed with sleeve length, makeup, etc as having a gospel that the devil himself would follow. It is true I think you are terribly misguided but you are still my brother and I have no doubt you love the Lord.

[RandyWayne]

Reminds me of a service I was in. A woman was jumping... she went up, her body parts went down. Woman went down, her body parts went up.
Hilary Swank could have given her lessons on how to wrap them so they don't move.

Thinking of Grandma Krump from the Nutty Professor.

[berkeley]

Well ya know what they say, ÇÇ1. Better to be safe than sorry! You need the safety rail to keep you ...safe. It protects you from sinning. (ROFLOL) Some of the biggest sinners that I have known lived the legalism, myself included.

[hometown guy]

Well ya know what they say, ÇÇ1. Better to be safe than sorry! You need the safety rail to keep you ...safe. It protects you from sinning. (ROFLOL) Some of the biggest sinners that I have known lived the legalism, myself included.

wow!...If I would have said that about liberals ( cause you know it directed toward cons ) I would have been blowen out of the water.

[berkeley]

wow!...If I would have said that about liberals ( cause you know it directed toward cons ) I would have been blowen out of the water.

I don't think "blowen" is a word. My comment wasn't a generalization. I have specific people in mind. Did you miss where I inçluded myself in that number?

[OneAccord]

This may have been mentioned, but the reason for the 3/4 length and long sleeve rule for women is this: When raising her arms in worship, wearng short sleeves or no sleeves, gives rise to the danger of a little more than just armpits being veiwed. Same for the lond dresses. If a woman should "be slain in the Spirit' wearing a short dress, well, that could be a bad thing. But since the raising of arms and being "slain in the Spirit" arefast becoming a thing of the past....

[berkeley]

A woman was slain in the spirit a month ago. Someone covered her with a coat. No big deal. I think I want small blankets hidden behind the pulpit as we are seeing more people slain in the spirit than in generations past.

[Praxeas]

I happened to read this verse this morning and think it ties into this discussion.

Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
II Thessalonians 2:15
"Our Epistle"...he was speaking of the traditions of the Apostles. He was not saying "whatever traditions you were taught, keep them"...if so we need to tell Catholics not to join our churches...stick to what they were taught

[Praxeas]

At our churches we are not disputing things like that ( just here on AFF )....and we know the world is headed to hell and thats why we still preach and teach against women wearing pants, hair length, ect.,etc,.....were trying to help them to live a life that is pleasing to God and not their flesh.
See, that sounds like the emphasis is on the outward appearance in order to be pleasing to God when God specifically states it's the inward HE is most concerned with

[kclee4jc]

At our churches we are not disputing things like that ( just here on AFF )....and we know the world is headed to hell and thats why we still preach and teach against women wearing pants, hair length, ect.,etc,.....were trying to help them to live a life that is pleasing to God and not their flesh.

I like you hometown guy. From what i have seen thus far you represent this truth very well!

[kclee4jc]

Where did the term 'slain in the Spirit' originate? Kathryn Kuhlman? This one manifestation of God's Spirit that i simply don't understand and have a very difficult time explaining it to those outside of Pentecost. I have a hard time backing it up by scripture. I am not doubting it at all...i believe it happens. I just dont quite understand it..

[Jason B]

So in a round about way, you DO think that short sleeves sends someone to hell?
I personally always wear long sleeves and my wife at least three quarter length sleeves. Our church standard is three quarter length sleeves. This is our standard not a bible stance. We teach that since your elbow is the middle of your arm that covering it would be a pretty safe place for modesty.

We do not teach that showing your elbows will doom you to hell but we do teach that immodesty will send you to hell. We believe somewhere someone has to draw the line for the local assembly and who better then the shepherd of the church.

Just trying to connect the dots, so is it that short sleeves are not "a bible stance" and "showing your elbows won't send you to hell"?
-OR-
"since your elbow is the middle of your arm that covering it would be a pretty safe place for modesty" and "we do teach that immodesty will send you to hell"?

[kclee4jc]

So in a round about way, you DO think that short sleeves sens someone to hell?



Just trying to connect the dots, so is it that short sleeves are not "a bible stance" and "showing your elbows won't send you to hell"?
-OR-
"since your elbow is the middle of your arm that covering it would be a pretty safe place for modesty" and "we do teach that immodesty will send you to hell"?

For real?! :smack

[Jason B]

This may have been mentioned, but the reason for the 3/4 length and long sleeve rule for women is this: When raising her arms in worship, wearng short sleeves or no sleeves, gives rise to the danger of a little more than just armpits being veiwed. Same for the lond dresses. If a woman should "be slain in the Spirit' wearing a short dress, well, that could be a bad thing. But since the raising of arms and being "slain in the Spirit" arefast becoming a thing of the past....

Or it could simply bew taught that behavior which causes you to lose control is not the Spirit of God, and that the "prophets" have control of their own spirits, and alot of this foolish unbiblical stuff would stop, and no one would have to worry about a woman in a short dress being exposed in the floor (and I have seen this very thing happen, where the women of the church would go and put blankets over the legs of those women "slain in the spirit" it was in a trinitarian charismatic church.).

FTR-I'm of the position that if a woman IS wearing a dress/skirt it should at least cover the knees, especially at church. I don't want my comments to be misinterpreted to say that if people aren't being "slain" they can or should wear mini skirts.

[Jason B]

For real?! :smack

????

[aegsm76]

Just thought I would throw in this comment from my pastor this morning.
It fit so well into this discussion, that I have to share.
"Being a Christian is more of how we act and conduct ourselves, than how we dress."

[CC1]

I like you hometown guy. From what i have seen thus far you represent this truth very well!

Absolutely. Love having people like homer around to verbalize old time Pentecostal beliefs. People wouldn't believe it if a lib like me told them. They need to hear it from the horses mouth. You just can't make up logic like that.:happydance