Abusive Preachers

[RandyWayne]

I am liking Bro Pixler more and more. He may be a conservative (even though I cannot get myself to refer to him as a UC like others do) but he is filled with uncommon common sense.

http://blog.stevepixler.com/2011/03/suffering-fools-gladly.html

[papapraiz]

I am liking Bro Pixler more and more. He may be a conservative (even though I cannot get myself to refer to him as a UC like others do) but he is filled with uncommon common sense.

http://blog.stevepixler.com/2011/03/suffering-fools-gladly.html

Amen!!!

[Jeffrey]

Good stuff.

[Truthseeker]

Wow, something good said about an UPC preacher on AFF!!

[Jeffrey]

Wow, something good said about an UPC preacher on AFF!!

What denomination is irrelevant, the comments were toward the post, subject and topic -- not the UPC.

And to be clear, Pixler is NOT UPC. Though they'd be lucky to have a dozen Pixler's.

[RandyWayne]

What denomination is irrelevant, the comments were toward the post, subject and topic -- not the UPC.

And to be clear, Pixler is NOT UPC. Though they'd be lucky to have a dozen Pixler's.

I thought he was, or did he recently pull his church out?

[papapraiz]

He never was - always been independent!

[RandyWayne]

I love the title. Suffer Fools Gladly.

[pelathais]

I am liking Bro Pixler more and more. He may be a conservative (even though I cannot get myself to refer to him as a UC like others do) but he is filled with uncommon common sense.

http://blog.stevepixler.com/2011/03/suffering-fools-gladly.html

Comparing this phenomena - of "putting up with fools" - with the phenomena of an abused house wife is a good comparison to make. There really does end up being a pathological environment whereby those being abused actually enable the abusers. I've seen it time and time again, and I was probably a big enabler myself for years.

[pelathais]

Wow, something good said about an UPC preacher on AFF!!

Take off your blinders and read more. :thumbsup

[RandyWayne]

Comparing this phenomena - of "putting up with fools" - with the phenomena of an abused house wife is a good comparison to make. There really does end up being a pathological environment whereby those being abused actually enable the abusers. I've seen it time and time again, and I was probably a big enabler myself for years.

There is definitely a two way street. Abusive authority would only have tiny fraction of the power they currently posses (if that even) if it wasn't given to them by their willing followers.

[Praxeas]

I think you find this abuse mostly hand in hand with an emphasis on "obey your pastor"

[Truthseeker]

What denomination is irrelevant, the comments were toward the post, subject and topic -- not the UPC.

And to be clear, Pixler is NOT UPC. Though they'd be lucky to have a dozen Pixler's.

OOps, thought he was.

[RandyWayne]

I think you find this abuse mostly hand in hand with an emphasis on "obey your pastor"

.......and touch not mine anointed followed by rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft. Oh yes, and double honor also tends to make its way in.

[Praxeas]

.......and touch not mine anointed followed by rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft. Oh yes, and double honor also tends to make its way in.
Right, those all go hand in hand.

BTW in my thread on priorities some how "rules and regulations" got limited to standards, but that was never my intent. Rules and regulations includes "touch not my anointed" and "Obey the pastor" as opposed to feeding the flock spiritual food meant to grow, not keep them attached to one man as over lord.

[RandyWayne]

Right, those all go hand in hand.

BTW in my thread on priorities some how "rules and regulations" got limited to standards, but that was never my intent. Rules and regulations includes "touch not my anointed" and "Obey the pastor" as opposed to feeding the flock spiritual food meant to grow, not keep them attached to one man as over lord.

This is why I have personally redefined an UC church as one where the pastor is given god-like control over his flock versus a church where the standards are strict. Now even though the rules and standards in a UC church usually ARE strict, they are not in every case. I have heard of one or two personally and many more through testimonies I've read where the church's were quite liberal standard-wise yet the pastor was still considered the right-hand of God Himself and acted that way.

[Charnock]

Very good article.

[kclee4jc]

Brother Pixler is a great man of God! I have heard him preach at many WPF functions!

[Socialite]

Brother Pixler is a great man of God! I have heard him preach at many WPF functions!

I'm sure a man will preach wherever he's invited, but even despite Pixler's UC independent background, relationships with WPF conferences somehow surprises me still.

[RandyWayne]

Brother Pixler is a great man of God! I have heard him preach at many WPF functions!

Even though he seems to have embraced the use of video in his services?

[Timmy]

I'm sure a man will preach wherever he's invited, but even despite Pixler's UC independent background, relationships with WPF conferences somehow surprises me still.

Hey, think I could speak at a WPF conference? :woot

[Socialite]

Hey, think I could speak at a WPF conference? :woot

Yeah, as one of their sermon illustrations :thumbsup

[Timmy]

Yeah, as one of their sermon illustrations :thumbsup

:woot

[pelathais]

I'm sure a man will preach wherever he's invited, but even despite Pixler's UC independent background, relationships with WPF conferences somehow surprises me still.

Many within the WPF crowd can be heard to criticize the "Pastor as Dictator" model. NW might be another example of one. The only common thread amongst those folks seems to have been a desire to "spank" the UPC for one reason or another.

I've never met Pixler, and with his background I guess I'd have to confess that he's probably an exception to this; however if he was never UPC to begin with and isn't even WPF now, I guess his independence speaks for itself.

[Socialite]

Many within the WPF crowd can be heard to criticize the "Pastor as Dictator" model. NW might be another example of one. The only common thread amongst those folks seems to have been a desire to "spank" the UPC for one reason or another.

I've never met Pixler, and with his background I guess I'd have to confess that he's probably an exception to this; however if he was never UPC to begin with and isn't even WPF now, I guess his independence speaks for itself.

None of them would refer to themselves as dictators, of course. They'd clothe it in different clothes.

Pixler has never been UPCI to my knowledge, though I heard he was on staff in Northern California at a UPCI-endorsed church. Anyone can confirm? Maybe even possibly San Jose. The independent brethren he hung with though were all in the mold of Phil White and the PSR Boys. But Pixler seems like a fish out of water with those characters.

[BeenThinkin]

None of them would refer to themselves as dictators, of course. They'd clothe it in different clothes.

Pixler has never been UPCI to my knowledge, though I heard he was on staff in Northern California at a UPCI-endorsed church. Anyone can confirm? Maybe even possibly San Jose. The independent brethren he hung with though were all in the mold of Phil White and the PSR Boys. But Pixler seems like a fish out of water with those characters.

Steve Pixler has never been UPC. He grew up in an independent church in Ft Worth that consistently fought against the UPC. (I don't think the UPC California staff job is correct.) His dad was very much anti-UPC as well as anti-tithes. (Don't know if Steve is anti-tithes and anti-UPC as his dad was.) He came out of a very strict, everything that a person might consider doing was wrong, atmosphere. He has done a great job in Ft Worth. A man of integrity and an honest person.

BT

[seguidordejesus]

Anti-tithes? Do tell.

[BeenThinkin]

Anti-tithes? Do tell.

His dad was in fellowship with several independent oneness churches that were very much anti-tithes. Don't know what Steve's teaching on this is.

BT

[Socialite]

Steve Pixler has never been UPC. He grew up in an independent church in Ft Worth that consistently fought against the UPC. (I don't think the UPC California staff job is correct.) His dad was very much anti-UPC as well as anti-tithes. (Don't know if Steve is anti-tithes and anti-UPC as his dad was.) He came out of a very strict, everything that a person might consider doing was wrong, atmosphere. He has done a great job in Ft Worth. A man of integrity and an honest person.

BT

Someone just sent this to me via PM:

Yes, the California staff job is correct. He worked there several years. Steve is not anti-tithes or anti-UPC, and his dad is not any longer either.

What do you guys mean by "anti-tithes?"

[Socialite]

His dad was in fellowship with several independent oneness churches that were very much anti-tithes. Don't know what Steve's teaching on this is.

BT

Sounds funny. Do you mean he didn't support the Evangelical and Pentecostal teaching on tithing that you must give 10% or be cursed by God?

If so... sign me up.

[BeenThinkin]

Someone just sent this to me via PM:

Yes, the California staff job is correct. He worked there several years. Steve is not anti-tithes or anti-UPC, and his dad is not any longer either.

What do you guys mean by "anti-tithes?"

Excuse me! MY BAD! I need to get MY facts straight. Steve's granddad was the one that was very much anti-tithes, (against paying tithes) and was very much anti-UPC. Don't know for sure how Steve's dad (James Pixler) taught following his dad's death. But, believe me, Steve's grandpa was from a very hard, strict, anti-everything fellowship of churches in Ft Worth and North Texas in the sixties and seventies. Sorry for the mix up. I was thinking of James instead of Steve.

BT

[BeenThinkin]

Sounds funny. Do you mean he didn't support the Evangelical and Pentecostal teaching on tithing that you must give 10% or be cursed by God?

If so... sign me up.


At one point it was even preached in the fellowship of independent churches there in the Ft Worth area that tithes was a part of the mark of the beast! Now that will rot your socks, won't it?

BT

[Socialite]

At one point it was even preached in the fellowship of independent churches there in the Ft Worth area that tithes was a part of the mark of the beast! Now that will rot your socks, won't it?

BT

Yeah! **shocked**

You won't find too many pastors preaching against tithes anymore lol

[Consapostolic1]

I've always enjoyed listening to Bro. Pixler's messages. My former church was independent and attended conferences held at his church, but this is my first time hearing of the anti-tithe issue. Neither did I know about an anti-upc issue because I’ve often wondered why he wasn’t UPC? I do know that he was the youth pastor for First Church of San Jose (Bro. Shoemake) years ago and that he’s preaching at the Canada UPC camp this year. His church has changed a lot recently in regard to holiness standards; I’d definitely consider him moderate.

[*AQuietPlace*]

but this is my first time hearing of the anti-tithe issue. Neither did I know about an anti-upc issue because I’ve often wondered why he wasn’t UPC?



That's because it apparently wasn't an issue. :)



Someone just sent this to me via PM:

Yes, the California staff job is correct. He worked there several years. Steve is not anti-tithes or anti-UPC, and his dad is not any longer either.




A lot of people aren't UPC. There is a very large group of independent preachers out there in Apostolic Land.

[Consapostolic1]

That's because it apparently wasn't an issue. :)






A lot of people aren't UPC. There is a very large group of independent preachers out there in Apostolic Land.

I know, I've independent before.

[seguidordejesus]

In what way was he/they anti-tithes? Don't pay tithes at all? Did they have some sort of alternate plan for church funding? Be specific :)

[BeenThinkin]

In what way was he/they anti-tithes? Don't pay tithes at all? Did they have some sort of alternate plan for church funding? Be specific :)


They did not believe tithes was a New Testament doctrine and thus they took a very negative approach to tithing, especially taking exception to those who preached the doctrine of tithing. They had no set plan of support for the churches and simply hoped that everyone would do their part and that enough money would come in to support the church.

Yes, they did not pay tithes. Tithes was a bad word in their thinking.

And again, they had no set plan for support.

BT

[RandyWayne]

In what way was he/they anti-tithes? Don't pay tithes at all? Did they have some sort of alternate plan for church funding? Be specific :)

I am sure he (if he is) or anyone else opposed to tithing as a law, is not anti giving.

[BeenThinkin]

I am sure he (if he is) or anyone else opposed to tithing as a law, is not anti giving.


And they were not anti-giving. Some good people that were very subjected to the pastor and amazingly did seem to do their part. You never really heard a lot preached about giving but the anti-tithes came up often it seemed.

BT

[seguidordejesus]

They did not believe tithes was a New Testament doctrine and thus they took a very negative approach to tithing, especially taking exception to those who preached the doctrine of tithing. They had no set plan of support for the churches and simply hoped that everyone would do their part and that enough money would come in to support the church.

Yes, they did not pay tithes. Tithes was a bad word in their thinking.

And again, they had no set plan for support.

BT

Too bad they're not that way still - sounds like my way of thinking :)

[BeenThinkin]

Too bad they're not that way still - sounds like my way of thinking :)

Let me conclude my remarks by saying the Pixlers are great people, who have probably changed some over the years. Haven't we all? Nope! There are some that would not change if the Apostle Paul explained their error to them after having discussed it with Jesus Christ.

My main concern for folks who don't tithe is the reason they don't. If they are trying to figure how to get by doing less I have a problem with that. In all things spiritual, it seems to me in the New Testament, we are required to do more. And I'm sure the Lord would not leave out our money in this issue, seeing as how "the love of money is the root of all evil!"

So, the Pixler's name is probably being mentioned in the wrong thread, seeing as how the present generations are not abusive preachers, as far as I know, nor was the former generation abusive. Good people!

BT

[kclee4jc]

Anti-tithes? Do tell.

Brother Pixler was raised in an anti tithes organization. I heard him preach on tithing a couple years back at Bro Godair's church and he said he recieved revelation of tithing just as a trinitarian would receive revelation of the Oneness of God. I am not certain but i do believe he is in the WPF. And regarding the question concerning the use of video and the WPF. The Rock Church in Sacramento is WPF and video's their services and streams them online.

[canam]

i've always enjoyed listening to bro. Pixler's messages. My former church was independent and attended conferences held at his church, but this is my first time hearing of the anti-tithe issue. Neither did i know about an anti-upc issue because i’ve often wondered why he wasn’t upc? I do know that he was the youth pastor for first church of san jose (bro. Shoemake) years ago and that he’s preaching at the canada upc camp this year. His church has changed a lot recently in regard to holiness standards; i’d definitely consider him moderate.

it sounds like rumors to me, if you would listen to his message ,in these times of distress, he says he still believes in holiness and he isnt going charasmartic as some have accused,neither is he going to chase everyone with an elbow showing.always been independent,not anti upc or tithing.ps most wpf believe in video probably even though they wont say it at their conferences for fear of offending someone who doesnt.

[Socialite]

Brother Pixler was raised in an anti tithes organization. I heard him preach on tithing a couple years back at Bro Godair's church and he said he recieved revelation of tithing just as a trinitarian would receive revelation of the Oneness of God. I am not certain but i do believe he is in the WPF. And regarding the question concerning the use of video and the WPF. The Rock Church in Sacramento is WPF and video's their services and streams them online.

Pixler is not WPF.

Interesting about tithing...

A revelation from God? How can these things be said? What about the guy that had the revelation that tithing wasn't biblical today?

[Socialite]

I've always enjoyed listening to Bro. Pixler's messages. My former church was independent and attended conferences held at his church, but this is my first time hearing of the anti-tithe issue. Neither did I know about an anti-upc issue because I’ve often wondered why he wasn’t UPC? I do know that he was the youth pastor for First Church of San Jose (Bro. Shoemake) years ago and that he’s preaching at the Canada UPC camp this year. His church has changed a lot recently in regard to holiness standards; I’d definitely consider him moderate.

?

[Socialite]

Let me conclude my remarks by saying the Pixlers are great people, who have probably changed some over the years. Haven't we all? Nope! There are some that would not change if the Apostle Paul explained their error to them after having discussed it with Jesus Christ.

My main concern for folks who don't tithe is the reason they don't. If they are trying to figure how to get by doing less I have a problem with that. In all things spiritual, it seems to me in the New Testament, we are required to do more. And I'm sure the Lord would not leave out our money in this issue, seeing as how "the love of money is the root of all evil!"

So, the Pixler's name is probably being mentioned in the wrong thread, seeing as how the present generations are not abusive preachers, as far as I know, nor was the former generation abusive. Good people!

BT
Why do you have a problem with that? Why is that bothering you so much?

Burdened or bothered?

That's also not true. I don't believe I 'tithe' yet I certainly know my heart and that I'm not stingy with giving. I candidly give far more than 10%.

[seguidordejesus]

Why do you have a problem with that? Why is that bothering you so much?

Burdened or bothered?

That's also not true. I don't believe I 'tithe' yet I certainly know my heart and that I'm not stingy with giving. I candidly give far more than 10%.

:thumbsup

[kclee4jc]

Pixler is not WPF.

Interesting about tithing...

A revelation from God? How can these things be said? What about the guy that had the revelation that tithing wasn't biblical today?

How do you know this? He preaches at almost every WPF conference.


Yeah that's what he said. He had to search it out for himself. I have the message on cd.

[kclee4jc]

it sounds like rumors to me, if you would listen to his message ,in these times of distress, he says he still believes in holiness and he isnt going charasmartic as some have accused,neither is he going to chase everyone with an elbow showing.always been independent,not anti upc or tithing.ps most wpf believe in video probably even though they wont say it at their conferences for fear of offending someone who doesnt.

Brother Pixler is def not charismatic or liberal. He is a great man of God and very conservative in regards to holiness.

[Socialite]

How do you know this? He preaches at almost every WPF conference.


Yeah that's what he said. He had to search it out for himself. I have the message on cd.

Every WPF Conference? No Limits? PEAK? Summit?

I know his non-affiliation with the WPF for a matter of fact. He has old friends and relationships in WPF churches who bring him in sometimes, but he's certainly not WPF.

We all search it out for ourselves. I've searched things out for myself, but my conclusion wasn't God's voice telling me it was so.

Someone invite him over to our tithing threads :)

[kclee4jc]

Every WPF Conference? No Limits? PEAK? Summit?

I know his non-affiliation with the WPF for a matter of fact. He has old friends and relationships in WPF churches who bring him in sometimes, but he's certainly not WPF.

We all search it out for ourselves. I've searched things out for myself, but my conclusion wasn't God's voice telling me it was so.

Someone invite him over to our tithing threads :)

I said 'almost every conference'. I probably should have said several but i didnt mean all of the WPF conferences. I really am not sure of what all conferences he has spoken at. I have attended east coast conference at Bro Godair's church the last two years and he has been a speaker there both times. I have seen him on the list for several WPF conferences but I don't really remember which ones.

[kclee4jc]

None of them would refer to themselves as dictators, of course. They'd clothe it in different clothes.

Pixler has never been UPCI to my knowledge, though I heard he was on staff in Northern California at a UPCI-endorsed church. Anyone can confirm? Maybe even possibly San Jose. The independent brethren he hung with though were all in the mold of Phil White and the PSR Boys. But Pixler seems like a fish out of water with those characters.

What is PSR?

[berkeley]

What is PSR?

Personal Strength Renewal. They disbanded because one of the preachers allows makeup, or so says the rumor mill. West Coast Conference replaced PSR, some of the same men involved.

[Socialite]

Personal Strength Renewal. They disbanded because one of the preachers allows makeup, or so says the rumor mill. West Coast Conference replaced PSR, some of the same men involved.

Yeah, I think it also had to do with the conference becoming increasingly who can preach the holiest. For example:

Speaker 1: "My God, all these compromisers, we don't believe in Christmas Trees. Those are the debil."

Speaker 2: "God is looking for a faithful remnant that won't wear sideburns past the tops of their ears."

Speaker 3: "This may be tight, but it's right... some of these churches that sing these new songs with rock beats, getting rid of song books, and not wearing white collared shirts."

It just got worse and worse (or better and better, depending on your view).

PSR was, in my opinion, the UC's of UPCI and Independents, and was a pre-cursor in many ways for those who eventually joined together in the WPF (though many of the UC's in that group went Independent). But the speakers were always critical of the UPCI, and things they were "concerned" about.

[mfblume]

Yeah, I think it also had to do with the conference becoming increasingly who can preach the holiest. For example:

Speaker 1: "My God, all these compromisers, we don't believe in Christmas Trees. Those are the debil."

Speaker 2: "God is looking for a faithful remnant that won't wear sideburns past the tops of their ears."

Speaker 3: "This may be tight, but it's right... some of these churches that sing these new songs with rock beats, getting rid of song books, and not wearing white collared shirts."

It just got worse and worse (or better and better, depending on your view).

PSR was, in my opinion, the UC's of UPCI and Independents, and was a pre-cursor in many ways for those who eventually joined together in the WPF (though many of the UC's in that group went Independent). But the speakers were always critical of the UPCI, and things they were "concerned" about.

I am convinced there is a dark spirit about that sort of slant. And it is cruel.

[Theophil]

I am convinced there is a dark spirit about that sort of slant. And it is cruel.

Absolutely. Dark and perhaps demonic. While men and women argue about irrelevant issues, becoming more and more exclusive, the world goes to hell. Sounds like a devilish plan to me.

[berkeley]

Yeah, I think it also had to do with the conference becoming increasingly who can preach the holiest. For example:

Speaker 1: "My God, all these compromisers, we don't believe in Christmas Trees. Those are the debil."

Speaker 2: "God is looking for a faithful remnant that won't wear sideburns past the tops of their ears."

Speaker 3: "This may be tight, but it's right... some of these churches that sing these new songs with rock beats, getting rid of song books, and not wearing white collared shirts."

It just got worse and worse (or better and better, depending on your view).

PSR was, in my opinion, the UC's of UPCI and Independents, and was a pre-cursor in many ways for those who eventually joined together in the WPF (though many of the UC's in that group went Independent). But the speakers were always critical of the UPCI, and things they were "concerned" about.

I don't believe that most of the young people care for this kind of stuff. Some of my UC friends were laughing about the preacher that spent 20 or 45 minutes preaching against patterns on nylons. Another or maybe the same guy preached against the internet, not the evils of the internet, but the internet. Funny, you can find WCC online.

[hometown guy]

Brother Pixler is def not charismatic or liberal. He is a great man of God and very conservative in regards to holiness.

Brother Pixler is a great preacher but he is taking his church in the wrong direction.

[Socialite]

I don't believe that most of the young people care for this kind of stuff. Some of my UC friends were laughing about the preacher that spent 20 or 45 minutes preaching against patterns on nylons. Another or maybe the same guy preached against the internet, not the evils of the internet, but the internet. Funny, you can find WCC online.

Of course, the UC youngsters and other UC pastors that find WCC silly, I also enjoy hearing their logic explaining WHY it's silly. Both claim and cite the golden finger of pastoral authority, not biblical precedent.

[Socialite]

Brother Pixler is a great preacher but he is taking his church in the wrong direction.

How so?

And do you base your opinion as someone who knows him and his church intimately?

[hometown guy]

How so?

And do you base your opinion as someone who knows him and his church intimately?

I base my opinion on a message he preached at his church on his website this past summer.

[Socialite]

Today's Devotion was equally good (justification and sanctification -- normally a failed understanding in Penny circles) http://blog.stevepixler.com/2011/03/daily-devotion-wednesday-march-23-2011.html

(I liked everything except where I believe he is wrong concerning his reading of John 3:5)

And of course, what I would call the indwelling Spirit, I would make distinction between that and Holy Spirit baptism.

[Socialite]

I base my opinion on a message he preached at his church on his website this past summer.

Link? More info? What about the message turns your opinion into: He's leading his church in the wrong direction?"

[Socialite]

3 for 3.

I think I'll subscribe to his blog http://blog.stevepixler.com/2011/03/daily-devotion-tuesday-march-22-2011.html

[Consapostolic1]

Brother Pixler is a great preacher but he is taking his church in the wrong direction.
I have many friends that attend his church, please explain your reasoning. Have you actually been to the church and sat through their services to know if they're going in the wrong direction? I listen to their webcast often and to me it seems like they're moving in a great direction which is focused on primarily reaching their city rather than constantly hammering outward apperances as I've seen some do.

[Sister Alvear]

What is WCC?

[Consapostolic1]

What is WCC?

West Coast Conference, formally PSR sponsored by Bro. M in Fresno.

[berkeley]

What is WCC?

West Coast Conference put on by Vaughn Morton in Fresno, Ca. For some it replaced PSR.

[RandyWayne]

[/B]
I have many friends that attend his church, please explain your reasoning. Have you actually been to the church and sat through their services to know if they're going in the wrong direction? I listen to their webcast often and to me it seems like they're moving in a great direction which is focused on primarily reaching their city rather than constantly hammering outward apperances as I've seen some do.

Brother Pixler is a great preacher but he is taking his church in the wrong direction.

From the podcasts I have listened to and his blogs (and what others have said about him), he strikes me as a very conservative guy personally, who is using his God-given common sense and ability to study scripture to help determine what is important and what is not. He made the statement in a sermon that if blue ties suddenly became a symbol and trademark of homosexuals, he would stop wearing them -not because blue ties were wrong but because of their association (used this example as an analogy to why facial hair was preached against) and if at some point in the future they STOPPED becoming a symbol, there would be nothing wrong with wearing them again. How is this "moving in the wrong direction"?

[Socialite]

From the podcasts I have listened to and his blogs (and what others have said about him), he strikes me as a very conservative guy personally, who is using his God-given common sense and ability to study scripture to help determine what is important and what is not. He made the statement in a sermon that if blue ties suddenly became a symbol and trademark of homosexuals, he would stop wearing them -not because blue ties were wrong but because of their association (used this example as an analogy to why facial hair was preached against) and if at some point in the future they STOPPED becoming a symbol, there would be nothing wrong with wearing them again. How is this "moving in the wrong direction"?

As much as I like SP, I find that logic slippery.

I'll be wearing blue neckties no matter. But I guess it's like ear piercings in one ear in the 90's?

I also think that goes into the category of personal preference and don't find that to be something that is "wrong" as much as just using wisdom... and COMMON SENSE.

[RandyWayne]

As much as I like SP, I find that logic slippery.

I'll be wearing blue neckties no matter. But I guess it's like ear piercings in one ear in the 90's?

I also think that goes into the category of personal preference and don't find that to be something that is "wrong" as much as just using wisdom... and COMMON SENSE.

The whole point of this particular sermon was separating the Law from wisdom and common sense. So many OP standards are based on things that have either been forgotten or are no longer relevant but have now become "ancient landmarks" that should not be removed in their own right. Another example he used was Paul teaching that it was BEST not to get married if you had not already done so because of future trials coming up concerning the Christian persecution at the hands of the Roman empire. Typical UC thinking today would run with that and continue to preach that it was wrong to marry without any attempt at looking at the context of his "suggestion" at the time.

[berkeley]

As much as I like SP, I find that logic slippery.

I'll be wearing blue neckties no matter. But I guess it's like ear piercings in one ear in the 90's?

I also think that goes into the category of personal preference and don't find that to be something that is "wrong" as much as just using wisdom... and COMMON SENSE.

How is that wet logic? (slippery when wet/bon jovi)

[Socialite]

How is that wet logic? (slippery when wet/bon jovi)

Slippery, if he calls it "wrong" and not distinguishing between personal preference. Being the culture police, looking for ever faulty association you can to avoid wearing is futile. Neither does our separation come in that manner.

[Hoovie]

From the podcasts I have listened to and his blogs (and what others have said about him), he strikes me as a very conservative guy personally, who is using his God-given common sense and ability to study scripture to help determine what is important and what is not. He made the statement in a sermon that if blue ties suddenly became a symbol and trademark of homosexuals, he would stop wearing them -not because blue ties were wrong but because of their association (used this example as an analogy to why facial hair was preached against) and if at some point in the future they STOPPED becoming a symbol, there would be nothing wrong with wearing them again. How is this "moving in the wrong direction"?

I deny that beards are sign one is homosexual at all. False premise... other than that I agree. LOL!

[RandyWayne]

I deny that beards are sign one is homosexual at all. False premise... other than that I agree. LOL!

He was making the point that IF blue ties started becoming a sign that gays used he would stop wearing them in the same way that beards were a sign of hippies in the 60's. BUT blue ties aren't and beards are not anymore. And he did say that there was for more scripture FOR beards then against them -which there is basically none.

[Praxeas]

Yeah, I think it also had to do with the conference becoming increasingly who can preach the holiest. For example:

Speaker 1: "My God, all these compromisers, we don't believe in Christmas Trees. Those are the debil."

Speaker 2: "God is looking for a faithful remnant that won't wear sideburns past the tops of their ears."

Speaker 3: "This may be tight, but it's right... some of these churches that sing these new songs with rock beats, getting rid of song books, and not wearing white collared shirts."

It just got worse and worse (or better and better, depending on your view).

PSR was, in my opinion, the UC's of UPCI and Independents, and was a pre-cursor in many ways for those who eventually joined together in the WPF (though many of the UC's in that group went Independent). But the speakers were always critical of the UPCI, and things they were "concerned" about.

I don't believe that most of the young people care for this kind of stuff. Some of my UC friends were laughing about the preacher that spent 20 or 45 minutes preaching against patterns on nylons. Another or maybe the same guy preached against the internet, not the evils of the internet, but the internet. Funny, you can find WCC online.
My first pastor was pretty conservative and he did not want us mixed up with PSR

[berkeley]

My first pastor was pretty conservative and he did not want us mixed up with PSR

define conservative

[Socialite]

Pixler's interesting 3-stepper post...

http://blog.stevepixler.com/2011/04/believing-and-confessing.html

At least he's placing more emphasis on believing than others of his peers do.

[RandyWayne]

Pixler's interesting 3-stepper post...

http://blog.stevepixler.com/2011/04/believing-and-confessing.html

At least he's placing more emphasis on believing than others of his peers do.

Taken from the above blog:

If we do not preach the gospel in such a way that sinners are first brought to faith that believes with the heart, then we have done nothing for them but press them to admit their guilt under guise of repentance, to be dunked in a tank of useless water in a pretense of baptism and urge them to share in an emotional and glossalalic experience that makes them nothing more than guilty, soaked and babbling sinners! Sinners are not believers unless they believe.

[houston]

Heh... he's givin them 'nuff rope...

[*AQuietPlace*]

Pixler's interesting 3-stepper post...

http://blog.stevepixler.com/2011/04/believing-and-confessing.html

At least he's placing more emphasis on believing than others of his peers do.
I didn't get three steps from that post. Two, maybe.

[Praxeas]

define conservative
Everything you consider conservative as far as what church you came from except he allowed wedding bands and he voted to approve the video resolution

[Socialite]

I didn't get three steps from that post. Two, maybe.

He made it difficult, since he put Spirit Baptism with tongues, and water baptism all in the same grouping. The verdict is out...

I must say, it was an eloquent and articulate writing from an Apo on the subject of believing. Very strong, and very right in that regard.

[onefaith2]

He made it difficult, since he put Spirit Baptism with tongues, and water baptism all in the same grouping. The verdict is out...

I must say, it was an eloquent and articulate writing from an Apo on the subject of believing. Very strong, and very right in that regard.

I agree. I think he made it quite simple that too many times its skipped over about belief and how powerful the change of heart must be. I thought it was also interesting how he tied in baptism with confession.

[Praxeas]

From the podcasts I have listened to and his blogs (and what others have said about him), he strikes me as a very conservative guy personally, who is using his God-given common sense and ability to study scripture to help determine what is important and what is not. He made the statement in a sermon that if blue ties suddenly became a symbol and trademark of homosexuals, he would stop wearing them -not because blue ties were wrong but because of their association (used this example as an analogy to why facial hair was preached against) and if at some point in the future they STOPPED becoming a symbol, there would be nothing wrong with wearing them again. How is this "moving in the wrong direction"?
Maybe HT just doesn't know what he is talking about????

[HolyFire]

I agree. I think he made it quite simple that too many times its skipped over about belief and how powerful the change of heart must be. I thought it was also interesting how he tied in baptism with confession.

I always have thought it was a public confession.