Matt 16;27-28

[Truthseeker]

Matt 16:27-28

27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
KJV



Some say verses 27 is one thing while verse 28 is the day of pentecost.

I think both verses are refering to same event. what thinketh thou?

[mfblume]

Same event

[mfblume]

I mentioned this once before on this forum, but if we read before these verses, Jesus was speaking about taking up the cross, denying ourselves and following Him. Tasting death is taking up the cross. He said if we do not taste death now, we will taste death later, and we will never live again. But if we taste death now we will live again unto eternal life. It was simply SELF DENIAL he was talking about. So it hit me that when he said some will not taste death til they see the son of man coming, he meant some would not deny themselves then, but would have their lives taken later and never regained! Ands their lives in deed were later taken to never return to them again!

[Truthseeker]

I mentioned this once before on this forum, but if we read before these verses, Jesus was speaking about taking up the cross, denying ourselves and following Him. Tasting death is taking up the cross. He said if we do not taste death now, we will taste death later, and we will never live again. But if we taste death now we will live again unto eternal life. It was simply SELF DENIAL he was talking about. So it hit me that when he said some will not taste death til they see the son of man coming, he meant some would not deny themselves then, but would have their lives taken later and never regained! Ands their lives in deed were later taken to never return to them again!

Interesting thought, not sure I'm buying it, but interesting.

[mfblume]

Interesting thought, not sure I'm buying it, but interesting.

I really think it's the context, if you really check the whole passage. I noticed that when it seemed Jesus changed entired topics abruptly, that he was not actually changing topics at all.

[Truthseeker]

I really think it's the context, if you really check the whole passage.

Oh I'll conmsider it. Try to stay open to others thoughts on a subject.

[Truthseeker]

John 8:52

52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
KJV


Only other place Jesus uses "taste of death" obviously refers to spiritual death.

[mfblume]

John 8:52

52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
KJV


Only other place Jesus uses "taste of death" obviously refers to spiritual death.

I agree. To take up the cross is spiritual death, too, but a good one.

[Truthseeker]

it does appear he was speaking to the 12 disciples, so some would not pick up the cross?

[Falla39]

He came in the "glory of His Father" (Spirit). The Son of man came in his kingdom. (spiritual,
a kingdom they could not see. For the kingdom of God is inside. Hidden from the wise and
prudent, but revealed unto babes.)

Rom. 14:17
For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the
Holy Ghost.

Luke 17:21
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Jesus told his disciples that, just as the Father has appointed him a kingdom, he was appointing
them one.

Luke 22:29
And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

Remember all power in heaven and earth was given to Jesus. He had the power/right to choose
those 12 apostles. Peter was given the keys to to kingdom. He gave the keys to those present
on the Day of Pentecost. Not everyone believed,

The UNBELIEVING Jews did not believe Jesus was the Messiah. Because he came in the glory of
his Father (Spirit), many do not believe he has come because they can't SEE him. (spiritual things
can only be seen through eyes of faith.) Things we see with physical eyes are temporal, things not
seen, (except through eyes of faith) are eternal.

Oh,say but I'm glad, Oh, say but I'm glad.
Jesus has come and my heart's (cup's) over run
Oh, say but I'm glad!

Falla39

[mfblume]

it does appear he was speaking to the 12 disciples, so some would not pick up the cross?

Good question. Would it be only the 12? Or many others included as disciples?

[Lafon]

*bump*

I believe this issue is deserving of further exploration ......

Are there any who would choose to join with me in an objective, non-biased dialogue about the matter, allowing the pure word of God to be the final Arbitrator in determining the truth? After all, will that not be what Christ Jesus uses as the basis for judging us at the last day?

[Sean]

Matt 16:27-28

27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
KJV



Some say verses 27 is one thing while verse 28 is the day of pentecost.

I think both verses are refering to same event. what thinketh thou?




Brother, it (IS)verse 28, the invisible kingdom of God as Jesus referred to in John 3, if not, we are wasting our time here and Jesus was wrong!!! Especially now, the listeners have been dead over 2000 years now.

Verse 27 is speaking of a different event(2nd coming or end of the world), than verse 28. Remember there is sometimes randomness(addressing more than 1 event in the same passage) in the Gospels and sometimes(many times) Jesus even quoted O.T. verses out of context to make a point.

[Lafon]

Brother, it (IS)verse 28, the invisible kingdom of God as Jesus referred to in John 3, if not, we are wasting our time here and Jesus was wrong!!! Especially now, the listeners have been dead over 2000 years now.

Verse 27 is speaking of a different event(2nd coming or end of the world), than verse 28. Remember there is sometimes randomness(addressing more than 1 event in the same passage) in the Gospels and sometimes(many times) Jesus even quoted O.T. verses out of context to make a point.


Bro Sean, there is one thing about Irvin Baxter's post-trib teachings that I believe is commendable: I've noted he always "prefaces" (qualifies) that which he teaches with this phrase- "In my opinion." I construe those words to imply that he's not seeking to impose his understanding/interpretation upon that which a particular scriptural passage asserts as truth, only that what he publishes concerning it to be his "private interpretation." I try to remember that and endeavor to do the same, but as noted above, you fail to do that, only putting your words forth (publicly) as if the reader must accept them as truth. Do you grasp what I'm saying?

[mfblume]

I used to think there was randomness in Christ's words, until I sought to see if what He said actually flowed into what he already stated, and I was mistaken. I realized He did not use anything random. We just miss the point He made.

[TGBTG]

I mentioned this once before on this forum, but if we read before these verses, Jesus was speaking about taking up the cross, denying ourselves and following Him. Tasting death is taking up the cross. He said if we do not taste death now, we will taste death later, and we will never live again. But if we taste death now we will live again unto eternal life. It was simply SELF DENIAL he was talking about. So it hit me that when he said some will not taste death til they see the son of man coming, he meant some would not deny themselves then, but would have their lives taken later and never regained! Ands their lives in deed were later taken to never return to them again!

I used to think there was randomness in Christ's words, until I sought to see if what He said actually flowed into what he already stated, and I was mistaken. I realized He did not use anything random. We just miss the point He made.

So how does your interpretation take into account the fact that Jesus said in verse 27 that at his coming, he would reward every man??

Matt 16
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

[Sean]

For clarification, for instance,,,, Nicodemus comes to Jesus and said......Jesus brought up something else. John 3

(My "random" statement) Nicodemus was on one subject , but Jesus was on another.

[mfblume]

So how does your interpretation take into account the fact that Jesus said in verse 27 that at his coming, he would reward every man??

Matt 16
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

I believe it meant that everyone was going to get their just rewards. It is not speaking about every man who ever lived from Adam onward. Every one who would experience that event in the lifetimes of those people. I believe this falls in line with Matt 21:40 in reference to the only coming mentioned in Matthew -- judgment on Israel. This is required because the next verse says those standing there would not taste death before that happened.

[mfblume]

For clarification, for instance,,,, Nicodemus comes to Jesus and said......Jesus brought up something else. John 3

(My "random" statement) Nicodemus was on one subject , but Jesus was on another.

Not really, I think. Jesus redirected him.

Brother, I would not reject an interpretation that falls more in line with saying Jesus spoke of the same issue but in possibly a complicated way that we might initially miss, than say He spoke of something off the subject. It's like me talking to Him about blue cars, and He says, "Yeah, Sundays in winter are terrible in Israel."

[Sean]

Not really, I think. Jesus redirected him.

Brother, I would not reject an interpretation that falls more in line with saying Jesus spoke of the same issue but in possibly a complicated way that we might initially miss, than say He spoke of something off the subject. It's like me talking to Him about blue cars, and He says, "Yeah, Sundays in winter are terrible in Israel."



"Off the subject" is the better phrase I am looking for...Thanks

[TGBTG]

I believe it meant that everyone was going to get their just rewards. It is not speaking about every man who ever lived from Adam onward. Every one who would experience that event in the lifetimes of those people. I believe this falls in line with Matt 21:40 in reference to the only coming mentioned in Matthew -- judgment on Israel. This is required because the next verse says those standing there would not taste death before that happened.

So you see Matt 25:31 as having occurred in 70AD also? The coming Jesus spoke about in Matt 25 (of which the context starts in Matt 24) was judgment on Israel??

Matt 25
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

(cross ref: Matt 16:27 - For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.)

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

[mfblume]

So you see Matt 25:31 as having occurred in 70AD also? The coming Jesus spoke about in Matt 25 (of which the context starts in Matt 24) was judgment on Israel??

The context flows from chapter 24 into chapter 25, so yes. Chapter 25 begins by speaking of what will occur IN THAT DAY by saying, "then."


Matt 25
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

(cross ref: Matt 16:27 - For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.)

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Yes.

I have noticed that pretty well everything spoken of concerning the "end" was dealing with the end of the "age," and must be studied using the rest of the bible for a framework. Primarily the Old Testament.

Notice that the requirements for being blessed sheep are having fed the least of Christ's brethren, visited them in prison, clothed them in nakedness, etc. That cannot involve people from every era of all of time, as if its the white throne judgment. Who are the least of Christ's brethren? His brethren are not sinners whom we can find in desperate conditions in all ages of earth's history. His brethren are the CHURCH members.

If sinners from prechristian times can be considered amongst the least of those "His brethren," then I have the wrong Saviour as my "brother". Christ's brethren are not sinners. Sinners have a different "father."

Mat 25:40 KJV And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

They are members of the church. The first century saw this very predicament for believers. We've heard so many sermons about this being the end of the planet and of history that we failed to notice that Christ stipulated it was treatment of the CHURCH MEMBERS that he was judging people for. Were Christians in prison and naked without food in ancient North America when the aboriginal people ruled the land?

Also, if you take the time if you choose, check out these sermon notes about the sheep and goats, and how that fits in with the preceding chapter:

http://mikeblume.com/jun400p.htm
JERUSALEM MISSED THE BLESSING