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Aquila
03-28-2011, 07:00 AM
Great book!

52 Lies Heard in Church Every Sunday: ...And Why the Truth Is So Much Better [Paperback]
Steve McVey (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/Lies-Heard-Church-Every-Sunday/dp/0736938648

CC1
03-28-2011, 07:51 AM
I haven't had a chance to look at the link yet but, wow, 52 lies every Sunday would be about a lie a minute for most preacher's sermons.

John Atkinson
03-28-2011, 08:00 AM
I haven't had a chance to look at the link yet but, wow, 52 lies every Sunday would be about a lie a minute for most preacher's sermons.
Unless it was my pastor, which would be a lie about every 4 minutes :D

LUKE2447
03-28-2011, 08:44 AM
I watched videos oftis guy before. HORRIBLE on some of the stuff he teaches.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsAyY7ccNq0

links to 101 lies..

Aquila
03-28-2011, 09:27 AM
I watched videos oftis guy before. HORRIBLE on some of the stuff he teaches.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsAyY7ccNq0

links to 101 lies..

What teachings are you talking about specifically? I've read Grace Walk, Grace Rules, and I'm currently reading 52 Lies. His approach in my opinion is rather refreshing, and his understanding of grace is something more powerful than what I've encountered in the churches I've attended.

Share what teachings you feel are horrible.

Thanks! God bless.

Aquila
03-28-2011, 09:27 AM
I haven't had a chance to look at the link yet but, wow, 52 lies every Sunday would be about a lie a minute for most preacher's sermons.

lol

LUKE2447
03-28-2011, 09:38 AM
I will have to go back and rewatch his videos. Been over a year ago. I thought the guy looked familiar on the other video he posted and when you pointed out 52 lies.. well I checked and yep. It was him.

Aquila
03-28-2011, 09:56 AM
I enjoyed reading about the lie, "We're just sinners saved by grace."

His take on this is that we are NOT sinners saved by grace. In fact, this causes Christians to live below how we're called to live, because if you see yourself as merely a helpless sinner saved by grace, you'll not overcome sin. McVey proposes that we should see ourselves through the lense of Jesus Christ, Him being our new identity. Our old man (the old nature) was crucified with Christ. It's DEAD. Nailed to the cross. Now we are partakers of Christ's divine nature. We are new creatures. Where we struggle is in the mind, failing to realize and internalize this change of nature. Once we begin internalizing this truth and living by the divine nature of Jesus within us, we will walk in victory, because Jesus overcomes sin.

His emphasis isn't "effort" to work out salvation and righteousness... but rather "oneness" with Jesus Christ. Think about it... if we lived with the perspective that we are extensions of Him... would we not be overcomers?

LUKE2447
03-28-2011, 10:07 AM
http://www.youtube.com/user/SteveMcVey#p/search/0/3LJQnFHH-mA

http://www.youtube.com/user/SteveMcVey#p/search/0/3LJQnFHH-mA


keywords FINISHED WORK of the cross = OSAS.

2 to start.

Aquila
03-28-2011, 10:25 AM
I will have to go back and rewatch his videos. Been over a year ago. I thought the guy looked familiar on the other video he posted and when you pointed out 52 lies.. well I checked and yep. It was him.

I found his teaching refreshing. I'd been in church for 21 years. I'd attended two different Apostolic churches that were very legalistic. I never had full confidence in my salvation (I know my imperfections all too well). I was suffering from "burnout" because each church focused on "service"... service, service, service, service. I found myself operating in areas outside of my calling to please the church. Nearly everything I did was to please the church. I was in the mindset that if I wanted to please Jesus I had to do all these religious things. Also... I thought that I'd find my fulfillment in serving the church. The result? Total burnout and break down of my family. My wife abandoned the faith and eventually even left me to go "live it up".

I've now discovered "grace". I've discovered that Jesus DOESN'T want ME doing anything for Him... but rather Jesus desires for me to overcome by allowing Him to live through me. My fulfillment comes from serving Him and being one with Him. I was purchased by His blood. ALL sins are forgiven. Even those I've not committed yet. If you think about it... all my sins were still future when He was crucified. Jesus is all knowing... Jesus already knows who are His and who are not His. It's set. He isn't in Heaven HOPING we are saved... He knows who the elect are, called according to His purposes. And daily I make my calling and election sure through prayer and seeking to be "one" with Him.

It's amazing really. Since learning this principle I've discovered that as I walk down the street... I feel Christ's thoughts impressed upon me. I don't see things the way I used to see them. I don't see people the way I used to see them. Sometimes it's like Christ's own heart is beating in my chest. There are times in prayer when I'm home that I feel as though He could call me home that very instant. When I do sin now... I realize that the guilt and shame that I feel is due to me acting below the nature He's given my through the presence of His Spirit in me. It's so true what the Bible says. If any man truly knows the Lord... he cannot continue in sin. The child of God will eventually say, "I can't take this anymore. I'm getting outa here." God is so good to us. It's ALL about Him. It's not about us or our silly little standards. It's about Him IN us. Here's a verse I used to live by....

Philippians 2:12
12Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

But I never really internalized the very next verse....

Philippians 2:13
13For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

In the NLT it reads:

Philippians 2:12-13 (New Living Translation)
12 Dear friends, you always followed my instructions when I was with you. And now that I am away, it is even more important. Work hard to show the results of your salvation, obeying God with deep reverence and fear. 13 For God is working in you, giving you the desire and the power to do what pleases him.

It's all about allowing JESUS to work in us, giving us the desire and the power to do what pleases Him. Our own vain efforts and religiousity will never suffice. It shocked me when in prayer Jesus said He was disgusted with me. He impressed upon me that He didn't want me to be a good Apostolic...nor did He desire that I follow the ways of our "elders" in Pentecost. I wept in prayer and asked Him, "Lord, then what do you desire me to do?" He said, "Be like me. I'm your standard." I was worried because no man can be like Jesus. That's when He said, "This is only possible if I live MY life through you."

Since then... I've been so free and I've experienced victories in areas of my life I had struggled with for years.

That's my testimony. I just wanted to give God some glory.

Aquila
03-28-2011, 10:26 AM
http://www.youtube.com/user/SteveMcVey#p/search/0/3LJQnFHH-mA

http://www.youtube.com/user/SteveMcVey#p/search/0/3LJQnFHH-mA


keywords FINISHED WORK of the cross = OSAS.

2 to start.

I've come to the opinion that those who fall away were NEVER truly of us. God knew they'd fall away before time began. God knows who are His and who will stand in glory with Him on the last day as we post here. It truly is settled in Heaven. Many of God's saints will struggle with sin. Yet they will overcome through Him. They are His... and He is theirs.

LUKE2447
03-28-2011, 12:10 PM
I've come to the opinion that those who fall away were NEVER truly of us. God knew they'd fall away before time began. God knows who are His and who will stand in glory with Him on the last day as we post here. It truly is settled in Heaven. Many of God's saints will struggle with sin. Yet they will overcome through Him. They are His... and He is theirs.

Not true... foreknowledge and being right toward God for a length of time are not the same issues of judgment. Many will stay and hot for a while and cool over time and might fall away. You act like they never where saved. Typical reformed junk.

LUKE2447
03-28-2011, 12:12 PM
I found his teaching refreshing. I'd been in church for 21 years. I'd attended two different Apostolic churches that were very legalistic. I never had full confidence in my salvation (I know my imperfections all too well). I was suffering from "burnout" because each church focused on "service"... service, service, service, service. I found myself operating in areas outside of my calling to please the church. Nearly everything I did was to please the church. I was in the mindset that if I wanted to please Jesus I had to do all these religious things. Also... I thought that I'd find my fulfillment in serving the church. The result? Total burnout and break down of my family. My wife abandoned the faith and eventually even left me to go "live it up".

I've now discovered "grace". I've discovered that Jesus DOESN'T want ME doing anything for Him... but rather Jesus desires for me to overcome by allowing Him to live through me. My fulfillment comes from serving Him and being one with Him. I was purchased by His blood. ALL sins are forgiven. Even those I've not committed yet. If you think about it... all my sins were still future when He was crucified. Jesus is all knowing... Jesus already knows who are His and who are not His. It's set. He isn't in Heaven HOPING we are saved... He knows who the elect are, called according to His purposes. And daily I make my calling and election sure through prayer and seeking to be "one" with Him.

It's amazing really. Since learning this principle I've discovered that as I walk down the street... I feel Christ's thoughts impressed upon me. I don't see things the way I used to see them. I don't see people the way I used to see them. Sometimes it's like Christ's own heart is beating in my chest. There are times in prayer when I'm home that I feel as though He could call me home that very instant. When I do sin now... I realize that the guilt and shame that I feel is due to me acting below the nature He's given my through the presence of His Spirit in me. It's so true what the Bible says. If any man truly knows the Lord... he cannot continue in sin. The child of God will eventually say, "I can't take this anymore. I'm getting outa here." God is so good to us. It's ALL about Him. It's not about us or our silly little standards. It's about Him IN us. Here's a verse I used to live by....

Philippians 2:12
12Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

But I never really internalized the very next verse....

Philippians 2:13
13For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

In the NLT it reads:

Philippians 2:12-13 (New Living Translation)
12 Dear friends, you always followed my instructions when I was with you. And now that I am away, it is even more important. Work hard to show the results of your salvation, obeying God with deep reverence and fear. 13 For God is working in you, giving you the desire and the power to do what pleases him.

It's all about allowing JESUS to work in us, giving us the desire and the power to do what pleases Him. Our own vain efforts and religiousity will never suffice. It shocked me when in prayer Jesus said He was disgusted with me. He impressed upon me that He didn't want me to be a good Apostolic...nor did He desire that I follow the ways of our "elders" in Pentecost. I wept in prayer and asked Him, "Lord, then what do you desire me to do?" He said, "Be like me. I'm your standard." I was worried because no man can be like Jesus. That's when He said, "This is only possible if I live MY life through you."

Since then... I've been so free and I've experienced victories in areas of my life I had struggled with for years.

That's my testimony. I just wanted to give God some glory.

So basically you are OSAS now? LOL

Timmy
03-28-2011, 12:22 PM
I don't suppose all the lies are in the sermon. At least sometimes, I bet "Great sermon, Pastor!" is one of them! :toofunny

LUKE2447
03-28-2011, 12:23 PM
I don't suppose all the lies are in the sermon. At least sometimes, I bet "Great sermon, Pastor!" is one of them! :toofunny

:thumbsup lol

Aquila
03-28-2011, 12:34 PM
Not true... foreknowledge and being right toward God for a length of time are not the same issues of judgment. Many will stay and hot for a while and cool over time and might fall away. You act like they never where saved. Typical reformed junk.

People ARE what God sees them to be. God wasn't up in Heaven while one was "hot for a while" hoping they'd "hang in there". God knew the day they first set foot in a church they were not His and would cool and fall away. God saw them as they ARE. God wasn't guessing, hoping against hope, that they'd stay hot and be saved. Jesus already knew Judas was a devil when He called him to be a disciple. In God's mind... Judas was... Judas. All who fall away are to God what they ARE. If a person falls away they may have tasted the salvation provided in Christ... but from before creation God already knew they were not His own.

Aquila
03-28-2011, 12:36 PM
So basically you are OSAS now? LOL

Are you saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost? LOL

Simple truth.... God knows who are His.... has known since eternity past. Christ died to provide atonement and salvation for all of God's elect. Not a one will perish. The requirement for salvation is absolute PERFECTION. That's why the elect are hidden in Christ... He who is perfection.

Aquila
03-28-2011, 12:36 PM
I don't suppose all the lies are in the sermon. At least sometimes, I bet "Great sermon, Pastor!" is one of them! :toofunny

:lol

BeenThinkin
03-28-2011, 12:39 PM
Are you saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost? LOL

God knows who are His.... has known since eternity past. Christ died to provide atonement and salvation for all of God's elect. Not a one will perish.

Aquilla, you must be tired now.... after all that typing. Oh, cut and paste? Yea, that's the way to go! :heeheehee

Been Thinkin

LUKE2447
03-28-2011, 01:08 PM
Are you saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost? LOL

Simple truth.... God knows who are His.... has known since eternity past. Christ died to provide atonement and salvation for all of God's elect. Not a one will perish. The requirement for salvation is absolute PERFECTION. That's why the elect are hidden in Christ... He who is perfection.

:blah wow foreknowledge = no reality it just is... LOL Dude the failure of foreknowledge of reformeddoctrine is they look at it from a absolute God MADE it that way thus it must happen because he said so. No it will happen because reality of free will in relation to God created a certain outcome he knew. Sure the end won't change but the reality of the interaction IN TIME of if we are saved or not is determined on our response. You show the typical weakness as you do on Trinitarianism. You take a argument and use it blindly like someone else does by equating two things togethor that are not meant to be.

Because God in the end is not suprised by who is lost or not doesn't change the reality of how justice is done in real time. Yes people are saved and lose salvation and walk away to come back later. N TIME GOD does justice to them. Foreknoldege does not negate this.

LUKE2447
03-28-2011, 01:11 PM
People ARE what God sees them to be. God wasn't up in Heaven while one was "hot for a while" hoping they'd "hang in there". God knew the day they first set foot in a church they were not His and would cool and fall away. God saw them as they ARE. God wasn't guessing, hoping against hope, that they'd stay hot and be saved. Jesus already knew Judas was a devil when He called him to be a disciple. In God's mind... Judas was... Judas. All who fall away are to God what they ARE. If a person falls away they may have tasted the salvation provided in Christ... but from before creation God already knew they were not His own.

You still don't get it. God does justice toward the hear of the person WHETHER OR NOT HE FALLS AWAY LATER! They taste the gift and experience LIFE just as any other believer. You confuse way to many aspects.

AQUILA do you believe in OSAS NOW?

Aquila
03-28-2011, 01:39 PM
You still don't get it. God does justice toward the hear of the person WHETHER OR NOT HE FALLS AWAY LATER! They taste the gift and experience LIFE just as any other believer. You confuse way to many aspects.

AQUILA do you believe in OSAS NOW?

I believe that God knows His own.

LUKE2447
03-28-2011, 02:27 PM
I believe that God knows His own.

You did not answer the question.

Aquila
03-28-2011, 02:32 PM
You did not answer the question.

Those who are His, He has secured.

mfblume
03-28-2011, 03:43 PM
http://www.youtube.com/user/SteveMcVey#p/search/0/3LJQnFHH-mA

http://www.youtube.com/user/SteveMcVey#p/search/0/3LJQnFHH-mA


keywords FINISHED WORK of the cross = OSAS.

2 to start.

FINISHED WORK OF THE CROSS does not mean OSAS. I believe in the finished work of the cross in that we can add nothing to the work Jesus did in order to provide us with all we need to overcome. That does not mean we cannot lose salvation nor does it mean we have no part to play. It simply means Christ has nothing else to do to provide us with all we need to be saved and live victoriously.

OneAccord
03-28-2011, 07:19 PM
I heard a sermon once entitled "Lies in the Bible". I was shocked and started not to listen to it. Turned out to be a really good message. One that I can remember:

" ...we know that God heareh not sinners....". Jhn 9:31 A lie. God hears the sinners prayer of repentance.

pelathais
03-28-2011, 07:22 PM
I haven't had a chance to look at the link yet but, wow, 52 lies every Sunday would be about a lie a minute for most preacher's sermons.

Ha! You wish. It works out to about one every three minutes where I come from.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Aquila
03-29-2011, 06:38 AM
FINISHED WORK OF THE CROSS does not mean OSAS. I believe in the finished work of the cross in that we can add nothing to the work Jesus did in order to provide us with all we need to overcome. That does not mean we cannot lose salvation nor does it mean we have no part to play. It simply means Christ has nothing else to do to provide us with all we need to be saved and live victoriously.

Excellent point.

I'd like to ask a few questions. How do you know if you've lost your salvation? Can one be saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost... repeatedly throughout their lives?

The doctrine of eternal security teaches that SIN is so detestible to God that a perfect sacrifice was necessary. Jesus Christ is the propitiation for our sins, that means that Jesus endured ALL the wrath of God for the sins of the believer. Christ's blood atonement and the salvation provided is so pure and holy, it justifies the most vile of sinners in God's sight. Jesus essentially said, "I'll take ALL of the wrath they'd deserve for their sin." The believer is considered "crucified with Christ", the old man and his nature was nailed to the cross, and we are to be considered DEAD in regards to the Law. You can't bring a change against a dead man. All the sins of the believer were atoned for; past, present, and future (all of your sins were yet future when Christ died). Those who believe receive Christ's righteousness. A righteousness NOT based on their works... but on Christ's work, Jesus truly paid it all. The requirement for Heaven is ABSOLUTE PERFECTION as it is written, "Be ye holy, as I am holy.", and, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." The perfection demanded is the PERFECTION OF GOD, ABSOLUTE PERFECTION... and that is only imputed by God through faith Jesus Christ. For our righteousness to be perfect, it has to be HIS and HIS alone. Overcoming sin in our lives is predicated upon our oneness with Christ, not our efforts. Being one with Christ will allow His righteousness to flow through us and sins are overcome. We still struggle with sin because our minds must be renewed. Sins are increasingly overcome as we put on the mind of Christ Jesus and are conformed into HIS image. All of this is a work of the Holy Spirit, through Christ Jesus, our Lord. Those who "fall away" went out from among us because they were not of us. Yes, they tasted of the heavenly gift... but they were predestined to fall away. God foreknew it and declared it to be so, not altering their fate. The true believer WILL press into Christ Jesus and overcome sin. The new nature imparted demands it. A saint cannot continue in sin. Eventually the prodigal will come home. And when they do they will realize that their heavenly Father NEVER stopped loving them. They were NEVER disowned. And they are welcomed in unconditionally. The story of the prodigal isn't about forgiveness... it's about unconditional acceptance and grace. The prodigal wanted to be allowed back home and was willing to be a servant... HE WAS BUYING INTO A WORKS MENTALITY TO GAIN HIS FATHER'S APPROVAL. The prodigal's father welcomed him in with open arms, had never stopped loving him, and was ready to impart all the righteousness of the family upon him. The legalistic brother was taken aback, because he was works oriented also. Thought his obedience and faithfulness to the family earned him greater standing. Not so. Such is the power of grace.

Aquila
03-29-2011, 06:40 AM
I heard a sermon once entitled "Lies in the Bible". I was shocked and started not to listen to it. Turned out to be a really good message. One that I can remember:

" ...we know that God heareh not sinners....". Jhn 9:31 A lie. God hears the sinners prayer of repentance.

God is good. God often hears a sinner's prayer for healing or the healing of their children too. Often an agnostic will pray, "God, if you're real, heal my son." When the man's son is miraculously healed, the man is won to the Lord.

The whole premise of God not hearing "sinners" is based on an assumption of a religious mind in the bondage of the Law and self righteousness.

LUKE2447
03-29-2011, 06:56 AM
MBLUME;1051292]FINISHED WORK OF THE CROSS does not mean OSAS.

Blume you never use that term It is not normal to your vocabulary. They use it doctrinal specific. To say it does no have that connotation is amusing because everytime I hear it is always the same people sayingit. SURE I can say I agree with it WITHIN CERTAIN CONTEXT that is not the point. It is used of how atonement is done toward the believer to them. People I know that don't believe OSAS or go toward easy believism.. NEVER use that term. It is very specific jargon.

I believe in the finished work of the cross in that we can add nothing to the work Jesus did in order to provide us with all we need to overcome.
Again that is not the point and is not normal jargon. you are just jumping on something to do it saying see I can agree with it which is not he point.

That does not mean we cannot lose salvation nor does it mean we have no part to play. It simply means Christ has nothing else to do to provide us with all we need to be saved and live victoriously.

Again you have lost context and arguing against something that is pointless.

LUKE2447
03-29-2011, 06:59 AM
Those who are His, He has secured.

yes or no...

because all sins past present and future have been forgiven at the moment of salvation?

Aquila
03-29-2011, 07:00 AM
Blume you never use that term It is not normal to your vocabulary. Theyuse it doctrinal specific. To say it does no have the conotation is amusing becuase everytime I hear it it always is the same people saying. SURE I cn say I agree with it WITHIN CERTAIN CONTEXT that is not the point. It is used of how atonement is done toward the believer to them.

Again that is not the point and is not normal jargon. yo re just juping on something to do it.



Again you have lost context and arguing against something that is pointless.

Luke, how many of your sins were atoned for on the cross???

LUKE2447
03-29-2011, 07:20 AM
Luke, how many of your sins were paid for on the cross???

Aquila... typical. just answer the question. Well read up on it and get back to me with your new doctrine. It is not about a number but that the cross negated a covenant. He obtained authority over sin by the new man and his death being a offering once FOR SIN to destroy it for the reality of a new. sin is not forgive unless things come into reality. Nothing is forgiven unless you have rceived forgiveness. Until you understand covenant doctrine in relation to marriage and why Christ died as the husbandman you will not understand it through reformed doctrines eyes.


Oh thank for your confirmation of your move to OSAS. Everything you ask and point to proves it. Unless you are in denial.

Aquila
03-29-2011, 07:23 AM
yes or no...

because all sins past present and future have been forgiven at the moment of salvation?

Yes. Sins are a symptom of a greater problem. Individual sins are not the issue. The issue is being in union with Jesus Christ, allowing His righteousness to flow through us. When we sin, it's the result of having cut off the flow of His righteousness in us. When we confess our sins... we are confessing that we took control at that point and chose to do as we desired.

All your sins are atoned for. Period. You need not even try to change your behavior. You need to change your perception and identity, allowing the new nature to guide you.

LUKE2447
03-29-2011, 07:28 AM
yes. Sins are a symptom of a greater problem. Individual sins are not the issue. The issue is being in union with jesus christ, allowing his righteousness to flow through us. When we sin, it's the result of having cut off the flow of his righteousness in us. When we confess our sins... We are confessing that we took control at that point and chose to do as we desired.

all your sins are atoned for. Period. You need not even try to change your behavior. You need to change your perception and identity, allowing the new nature to guide you.

= OSAS Doctrine

Down the slide of false doctrine you go. Amazing!

Aquila
03-29-2011, 08:15 AM
= OSAS Doctrine

Down the slide of false doctrine you go. Amazing!

Luke... false doctrine is the notion that Jesus didn't atone for all of your sins. Essentially you're telling me that Christ's blood ISN'T enough. You're also telling me that He didn't atone for all of your sins. You're telling me that you deny your identity in Christ and claiming that you must establish your own righteousness. In your theology you deny being hidden in Christ. You also appear to be denying that the believer's righteousness is predicated upon justification and flows from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Luke... all of the above is false doctrine.

LUKE2447
03-29-2011, 09:14 AM
Luke... false doctrine is the notion that Jesus didn't atone for all of your sins.

LOL.. you are hilarious. Nice way of not listening ad taking things into YOUR reasoning vs what is said.


Essentially you're telling me that Christ's blood ISN'T enough.

Oh of course that is exactly what I said.

You're also telling me that He didn't atone for all of your sins.

Right again.... Grade A for comprehension. :laffatu

You're telling me that you deny your identity in Christ and claiming that you must establish your own righteousness.

Make that A+++ for comprehension. :laffatu :laffatu

In your theology you deny being hidden in Christ.

Oh yeah nice personal jargon vs biblical to understand there to make the issue clear on what is meant.

You also appear to be denying that the believer's righteousness is predicated upon justification and flows from the Lord Jesus Christ.

seriously I will be nice and leave you to your insanity of false doctrine that you have been walking toward for a while. you have false paradigms that are easil destroyed and he above point it true but you don't mean it is practical righteousness uno justification but a forensic acquittal.


Luke... all of the above is false doctrine.

yeah and is that based on your comprehension skills?

Aquila
03-29-2011, 09:24 AM
LOL.. you are hilarious. Nice way of not listening ad taking things into YOUR reasoning vs what is said.




Oh of course that is exactly what I said.



Right again.... Grade A for comprehension. :laffatu



Make that A+++ for comprehension. :laffatu :laffatu



Oh yeah nice personal jargon vs biblical to understand there to make the issue clear on what is meant.

.

seriously I will be nice and leave you to your insanity of false doctrine that you have been walking toward for a while. you have false paradigms that are easil destroyed and he above point it true but you don't mean it is practical righteousness uno justification but a forensic acquittal.




yeah and is that based on your comprehension skills?

Luke, strengthen your argument by not going personal.

Did Jesus atone for all of your sins? Yes or no?
Is Christ's blood enough? Yes or no?
Is Christ your righteousness or must you stand in your own righteousness?
Does Christ's righteousness flow into your life, you overcoming through His imparted nature? Yes or no?
Were you justified by faith? Yes or no?

LUKE2447
03-29-2011, 09:37 AM
Luke, strengthen your argument by not going personal.

I am not personal I am making points on your points which are flat out horrible comprehension and not even in the realm of hearing to be nice.

Did Jesus atone for all of your sins? Yes or no?

Depends on what is meant. Did he atone for all types of sin? Yes
Did he atone for all sins that I would commit? If I believe and follow to the end the answer is yes. If not then no.

Is Christ's blood enough? Yes or no?

No! Grace is not a reality toward anyone by itself. Heb 5:9

Is Christ your righteousness or must you stand in your own righteousness?

The law upon the heart is my righteousness to do and be found faithful just as he did the Fathers and Abrahams also did and received by obedience.


Does Christ's righteousness flow into your life, you overcoming through His imparted nature? Yes or no?

Depends onwhat is meant. If you mean I recieve a acquittal of sin if I am IN sin.... NO! If you mean does the impartation of the law upon the heart which is the righeousness of which Christ speaks and walked by and is for us to overcome the flesh by walking by faith and being judged friends vs lawless? Yes!

Were you justified by faith? Yes or no?

I am justifed by faith which is contextual to his leading from beginning to end.