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ThePastorsCoach
04-21-2011, 08:13 AM
I am so proud of Bishop Jakes that is baptized in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ and full of the Holy Ghost. He sat next to the President at a Prayer Breakfast this week. Isn't it great to have an Apostolic influencing the President? I knew you would rejoice to know that he baptizes in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ (I have seen and heard him do so) and many thousands have been filled with the Holy Ghost at the Potters House and in his crusades around the world!

REJOICE APOSTOLICS!

http://features.rr.com/photo/0bnL9sYaZkgGz?q=Texas

sandie
04-21-2011, 08:38 AM
Jakes is an actual advisor? Is he advising the president to repent, be baptized, recieve the Holy Ghost? If so, there's hope yet.

I think A. Mangun is pretty close to the Clintons...sadly, doesn't look like there's any fruit...not that time has expired.

AncientPaths
04-21-2011, 08:50 AM
I am so proud of Bishop Jakes that is baptized in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ and full of the Holy Ghost. He sat next to the President at a Prayer Breakfast this week. Isn't it great to have an Apostolic influencing the President? I knew you would rejoice to know that he baptizes in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ (I have seen and heard him do so) and many thousands have been filled with the Holy Ghost at the Potters House and in his crusades around the world!

REJOICE APOSTOLICS!

http://features.rr.com/photo/0bnL9sYaZkgGz?q=Texas

This is great. Kudos to Jakes.

Sam
04-21-2011, 10:14 AM
I think that it's neat that men like T.D. Jakes are invited to presidential functions. Anthony Mangun and Bro. Wachstetter (not sure how to spell that) have been also. And so have Billy Graham and Franklin Graham.

This would be a unique opportunity for any of us.
It could be a pretty difficult chalk line to walk if we are to remain wise as serpents and harmless as doves.

NorCal
04-21-2011, 10:44 AM
Jakes is an actual advisor? Is he advising the president to repent, be baptized, recieve the Holy Ghost? If so, there's hope yet.

I think A. Mangun is pretty close to the Clintons...sadly, doesn't look like there's any fruit...not that time has expired.

Actually, if you know that situation, it's because of his wife that he does not commit.

Hoovie
04-21-2011, 12:08 PM
This is kewl.

I was at the Potter's House last week, but Jakes was not the speaker. Apparently he was in route to see Obama... Can't believe cut out on me to see the Prez!

Sam
04-21-2011, 12:57 PM
This is kewl.

I was at the Potter's House last week, but Jakes was not the speaker. Apparently he was in route to see Obama... Can't believe cut out on me to see the Prez!

Did he know you were coming?

coadie
04-21-2011, 02:41 PM
Did he know you were coming?

The parting of the Red River?

coadie
04-21-2011, 02:42 PM
Actually, if you know that situation, it's because of his wife that he does not commit.

There are a few other UPC pastors that have ministered to Bill and Hillary. I had also hear Hillary didn't react to the word.

kclee4jc
04-21-2011, 02:45 PM
What is sad is that Mr. Jakes has denounced his affiliation with Oneness theology.

Hoovie
04-21-2011, 05:22 PM
Did he know you were coming?

That has got to be it! I should have called ahead.

freeatlast
04-21-2011, 05:59 PM
The Sunday following 911, when the twin towers were brought down in New York, I visited Willow Creek in South Barrington near Chicago, with two other UPC pastors.

Pastor Bill Hybels had just returned from Washington. He had been invited there by President Bush, for his counsel, along with Franklin Graham and several other religeous leaders.

It was a very moving service, surreal, with Bro. Hybel speaking of the direction the country would take after the event of 911.

AncientPaths
04-21-2011, 06:33 PM
What is sad is that Mr. Jakes has denounced his affiliation with Oneness theology.

So is he lost now?

sandie
04-21-2011, 06:46 PM
Actually, if you know that situation, it's because of his wife that he does not commit.

Are you referring to Hillary? If so, I am familiar with the situation.

sandie
04-21-2011, 06:48 PM
The Sunday following 911, when the twin towers were brought down in New York, I visited Willow Creek in South Barrington near Chicago, with two other UPC pastors.

Pastor Bill Hybels had just returned from Washington. He had been invited there by President Bush, for his counsel, along with Franklin Graham and several other religeous leaders.

It was a very moving service, surreal, with Bro. Hybel speaking of the direction the country would take after the event of 911.

Is there a way of knowing what he said? I'm curious if it has come to pass.

Hoovie
04-21-2011, 08:29 PM
So is he lost now?

Lost because he does not claim to be "Oneness" in spite of him baptising in Jesus Name and not using the terms "Three Persons" to describe God?

No. I would think not. But then neither do I believe all non Oneness Pentecostals are lost - not even close.

Hoovie
04-21-2011, 09:00 PM
"Pastor Sheryl Brady" was the speaker last Wed night at the Potter's House. She is the newly elected Pastor of their Dallas North Church. The service was... well "interesting". :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBofF5OmubM&feature=related

AncientPaths
04-21-2011, 09:01 PM
Lost because he does not claim to be "Oneness" in spite of him baptising in Jesus Name and not using the terms "Three Persons" to describe God?

No. I would think not. But then neither do I believe all non Oneness Pentecostals are lost - not even close.

Interesting.... Kclee4guotghii - what say you? Bound for hell?

ThePastorsCoach
04-21-2011, 09:43 PM
What is sad is that Mr. Jakes has denounced his affiliation with Oneness theology.

What is sad here is - You don't have a CLUE!
Does he preach Repentance? - YES! Baptism in the Name of Jesus Christ? YES! The Baptism of the Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues? YES! A Righteous Life of Holiness unto the Lord? YES! Godliness? YES! Separation from the world? YES!

Now which "Oneness theology" would that be?
The one where you have to wear your dresses to the floor and your sleeves to your wrist or you are lost?
The one where you have to check in with the pastor about what kind of car to buy or house to live in or who your children can associate with?
The one against Video, TV, Radio, Technology?
The one where the women cannot cut or trim their hair and have to wear it a certain way as the pastor dictates?
The one where you have to baptize in "running water" or it is not legal and you would go to hell if you were baptized in a plastic tub or baptistry?

WHICH ONENESS THEOLOGY? David Barnard's? Andrew Urshans? David Terrell's? H. Richard Halls? William Branhams? Mine? Yours? Which ONE?

I want to know what you are talking about!
I knew as sure as I wrote something positive about Bishop Jakes who pastors over 40,000 people and preaches around the world and ministers benevolence to millions that SOMEBODY would take a pot shot because he is NOT what they are! WELL... I am not either and I denounce a lot of what is CALLED or REFEREED to as "Oneness Theology" that is just what MEN say about God.
Foolish rules and regulations that are nothing but bondage and legalism to enslave weak minded people to an intimidated and weak leader and antiquated system that cannot prove by the Bible what it believes!
That term is no more in the Bible than Trinity is!
Get your facts straight before you post so you won't look as foolish as you do now!

God Bless BISHOP JAKES who has done more for the KINGDOM OF GOD than all of us put together on here!
Stop taking pot shots at the Man of God!

ThePastorsCoach
04-21-2011, 09:50 PM
"Pastor Sheryl Brady" was the speaker last Wed night at the Potter's House. She is the newly elected Pastor of their Dallas North Church. The service was... well "interesting". :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBofF5OmubM&feature=related

I love Pastor Sheryl Brady and her husband Bishop Joby Brady. They are preaching machines and have done an incredible work in Raleigh, NC. She is now the Pastor of Potters House North and is doing a great work in North Dallas! I love to hear her sing and to prophesy!

Sam
04-21-2011, 10:40 PM
What is sad here is - You don't have a CLUE!
Does he preach Repentance? - YES! Baptism in the Name of Jesus Christ? YES! The Baptism of the Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues? YES! A Righteous Life of Holiness unto the Lord? YES! Godliness? YES! Separation from the world? YES!

Now which "Oneness theology" would that be?
The one where you have to wear your dresses to the floor and your sleeves to your wrist or you are lost?
The one where you have to check in with the pastor about what kind of car to buy or house to live in or who your children can associate with?
The one against Video, TV, Radio, Technology?
The one where the women cannot cut or trim their hair and have to wear it a certain way as the pastor dictates?
The one where you have to baptize in "running water" or it is not legal and you would go to hell if you were baptized in a plastic tub or baptistry?

WHICH ONENESS THEOLOGY? David Barnard's? Andrew Urshans? David Terrell's? H. Richard Halls? William Branhams? Mine? Yours? Which ONE?

I want to know what you are talking about!
I knew as sure as I wrote something positive about Bishop Jakes who pastors over 40,000 people and preaches around the world and ministers benevolence to millions that SOMEBODY would take a pot shot because he is NOT what they are! WELL... I am not either and I denounce a lot of what is CALLED or REFEREED to as "Oneness Theology" that is just what MEN say about God.
Foolish rules and regulations that are nothing but bondage and legalism to enslave weak minded people to an intimidated and weak leader and antiquated system that cannot prove by the Bible what it believes!
That term is no more in the Bible than Trinity is!
Get your facts straight before you post so you won't look as foolish as you do now!

God Bless BISHOP JAKES who has done more for the KINGDOM OF GOD than all of us put together on here!
Stop taking pot shots at the Man of God!

Atlanta Bishop,
Why don't you speak out a little more strongly?
Why such a mamby pamby post?

crakjak
04-22-2011, 10:04 AM
"Pastor Sheryl Brady" was the speaker last Wed night at the Potter's House. She is the newly elected Pastor of their Dallas North Church. The service was... well "interesting". :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBofF5OmubM&feature=related

She can sing!!! And speak!!!!

What do you mean by "interesting"?

Dark Energy
04-22-2011, 12:11 PM
Am I the only one that thinks these female preachers have terrible hair stylists and makeup jobs? *shiver*.

And some of them look and act butch imo

kclee4jc
04-22-2011, 12:24 PM
What is sad here is - You don't have a CLUE!
Does he preach Repentance? - YES! Baptism in the Name of Jesus Christ? YES! The Baptism of the Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues? YES! A Righteous Life of Holiness unto the Lord? YES! Godliness? YES! Separation from the world? YES!

Now which "Oneness theology" would that be?
The one where you have to wear your dresses to the floor and your sleeves to your wrist or you are lost?
The one where you have to check in with the pastor about what kind of car to buy or house to live in or who your children can associate with?
The one against Video, TV, Radio, Technology?
The one where the women cannot cut or trim their hair and have to wear it a certain way as the pastor dictates?
The one where you have to baptize in "running water" or it is not legal and you would go to hell if you were baptized in a plastic tub or baptistry?

WHICH ONENESS THEOLOGY? David Barnard's? Andrew Urshans? David Terrell's? H. Richard Halls? William Branhams? Mine? Yours? Which ONE?

I want to know what you are talking about!
I knew as sure as I wrote something positive about Bishop Jakes who pastors over 40,000 people and preaches around the world and ministers benevolence to millions that SOMEBODY would take a pot shot because he is NOT what they are! WELL... I am not either and I denounce a lot of what is CALLED or REFEREED to as "Oneness Theology" that is just what MEN say about God.
Foolish rules and regulations that are nothing but bondage and legalism to enslave weak minded people to an intimidated and weak leader and antiquated system that cannot prove by the Bible what it believes!
That term is no more in the Bible than Trinity is!
Get your facts straight before you post so you won't look as foolish as you do now!

God Bless BISHOP JAKES who has done more for the KINGDOM OF GOD than all of us put together on here!
Stop taking pot shots at the Man of God!

Before i came to Acts 2:38 salvation i watched T.D. Jakes every week. He was my favorite preacher. After watching him for at least 3 years every week God led me truth through a real preacher of the Gospel. While listening to him i often heard him refer to his beginnings in an Apostolic church here in WV. I often heard him tell that if one would accept Jesus Christ as their savior they would be saved. Never did he mention Baptism in the Name of Jesus Christ. Repentance? yes. The infilling of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in other tongues? Yes but not as a necessity. Water baptism in Jesus Name? He may baptize converts in Jesus Name but he most certainly does not preach it. As much as i watched him and listened to his preaching it was never T.D. Jakes that led me truth. If it was up to his preaching i would still be lost. And ancient paths...who am i to say where Mr. Jakes will spend eternity? I am not his judge. However according to the Word of God i do have a repsonsibilty to declare truth and shine light on error. And what Mr Jakes preaches is error.

Dark Energy
04-22-2011, 12:28 PM
What people often hear on TV is the Televised version of what they normally preach to their congregation or teach to those who want to be saved.

Whether Jakes teaches it as an absolute pre-requisite to being saved, he still does preach/teach baptism in Jesus name, Repentance and tongues/Spirit baptism

Narrow Is The Way
04-22-2011, 12:52 PM
So is he lost now?

You did not ask me but I will go ahead and answer. Sad to say but: YES HE IS LOST!!

Hoovie
04-22-2011, 01:08 PM
She can sing!!! And speak!!!!

What do you mean by "interesting"?

The service itself was very loud. I go to a church that cranks it up, but this was radical IMO. My girls held their ears for all the singing and music. Aside from that, (the decibel level) I would chaulk most of the rest up as differences in personal preferences.

Timmy
04-22-2011, 01:20 PM
She can sing!!! And speak!!!!

What do you mean by "interesting"?

Well, on Top Chef, if a judge tells you your dish is "interesting", you know you're in trouble. :heeheehee

Sam
04-22-2011, 01:31 PM
Am I the only one that thinks these female preachers have terrible hair stylists and makeup jobs? *shiver*.

And some of them look and act butch imo


I'm sure it cost a lot of money and time to look like that.

ThePastorsCoach
04-22-2011, 06:56 PM
ROFL! Sam - you make me laugh so hard!
I remember her when she wore her hair piled up on her head like Miss Kitty on Gun smoke! LOL MAYBE SHE was "Oneness Theolgised!" LOL
People that are fixated on hair and telling everybody else how to live and and how to look....have a lot more problems than just a critical and judgmental spirit!

ThePastorsCoach
04-22-2011, 06:59 PM
God Bless Bishop Jakes for Preaching THE TRUTH and not spending his time sending everybody to hell for not doing everything just like HE interprets! He does preach the TRUTH! The TRUTH IS JESUS CHRIST!

Sam
04-22-2011, 07:07 PM
God Bless Bishop Jakes for Preaching THE TRUTH and not spending his time sending everybody to hell for not doing everything just like HE interprets! He does preach the TRUTH! The TRUTH IS JESUS CHRIST!

:thumbsup:thumbsup

Dark Energy
04-22-2011, 07:51 PM
ROFL! Sam - you make me laugh so hard!
I remember her when she wore her hair piled up on her head like Miss Kitty on Gun smoke! LOL MAYBE SHE was "Oneness Theolgised!" LOL
People that are fixated on hair and telling everybody else how to live and and how to look....have a lot more problems than just a critical and judgmental spirit!
Just for the record,my opinion has nothing to do with judgment. I think it looks cruddy. I don't think makeup is a sin but some people go over board with it

Hoovie
04-22-2011, 08:03 PM
You did not ask me but I will go ahead and answer. Sad to say but: YES HE IS LOST!!

Are you for real? Even the hardcore three steppers I know would not say such a thing.

AncientPaths
04-22-2011, 08:14 PM
You did not ask me but I will go ahead and answer. Sad to say but: YES HE IS LOST!!

You're right. I did not ask you.

ThePastorsCoach
04-22-2011, 08:35 PM
You're right. I did not ask you.

These posts just go to show how absolutely out of touch with the Word of God and reality some people really are. It is like they are living with their head down in a hole in the ground!

Sam
04-22-2011, 09:18 PM
You did not ask me but I will go ahead and answer. Sad to say but: YES HE IS LOST!!

So, now you have usurped God's position as Judge?

Narrow Is The Way
04-22-2011, 09:38 PM
So, now you have usurped God's position as Judge?

God is the judge. I am taking God at his word.
John 8:24

If T.D Jakes does not believe that Jesus Christ is the one true God, He shall die in his sins.

If he does not teach that Jesus Christ is the one true God then he does not believe it.

Narrow Is The Way
04-22-2011, 09:41 PM
What is sad is that Mr. Jakes has denounced his affiliation with Oneness theology.

This is sad.

Lord help him to find Truth, he needs a revelation of who you are.

Sam
04-22-2011, 10:01 PM
This is from an online teaching at http://web.me.com/ktpowers/1/BishopTDJakes.html
The author is stating that T.D. Jakes is in false doctrine because he does not believe in the doctrine of the trinity. This was written a few years ago.

Bishop T. D. Jakes and the Trinity Doctrine

Along with T. D. Jakes obvious connections to the Oneness Pentecostals he provides clear evidence for his doctrines and beliefs being against the Biblical doctrine of the Trinity. In other words, T. D. Jakes is teaching false doctrines in opposition to what the Bible teaches on the identity of who God is. Examine the connection between what the United Pentecostal Church International (UPCI) teaches and what T. D. Jakes teaches on how God has been revealed to mankind.

At Potters House, T. D. Jakes states the following: "There is one God, Creator of all things, infinitely perfect, and eternally existing in three Manifestations: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit." (Potters House Ministries Belief Statement) What does T. D. Jakes mean by stating God is eternally existing in three manifestations? Closely comparing this with what the UPCI states it is clear that T. D. Jakes has the same theology as he did when he was involved with the Greater Emmanuel Apostolic Church.

At Potters House, T. D. Jakes states the following: "We believe in one God who is eternal in His existence, Triune in His manifestation, being both Father, Son and Holy Ghost AND that He is Sovereign and Absolute in His authority." (Potters House Ministries Doctrinal Statement) When T. D. Jakes states that God is Triune in His manifestation as being Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, he is teaching that God has revealed Himself in three different ways and not through three distinct personages. This is not Biblical and those who care about what the Bible teaches must be aware of this.

T. D. Jakes was interviewed by Living by the Word on KKLA, hosted by John Coleman, Aug. 23, 1998 and was asked the following question: "My first question would be, the Trinity would be defined as one God Who's revealed Himself in three distinct Persons, each co-equal and co-eternal. How important is it for the believing Christian to hold to this belief?" T. D. Jakes response to this question was: "The Trinity, the term Trinity, is not a biblical term, to begin with. It's a theological description for something that is so beyond human comprehension that I'm not sure that we can totally hold God to a numerical system. The Lord said, "Behold, O Israel, the Lord thy God is one, and beside Him there is no other." When God got ready to make a man that looked like Him, He didn't make three. He made one man. However, that one man had three parts. He was body, soul and spirit. We have one God, but He is Father in creation, Son in redemption, and Holy Spirit in regeneration." This is the same as what the United Pentecostal Church International states concerning their doctrines on who God is and their beliefs concerning the Trinity.

The official teachings of the United Pentecostal Church International state the following concerning who God is and what they believe about the Trinity: "In distinction to the doctrine of the Trinity, the UPCI holds to a oneness view of God. It views the Trinitarian concept of God, that of God eternally existing as three distinctive persons, as inadequate and a departure from the consistent and emphatic biblical revelation of God being one...Thus God is manifested as Father in creation and as the Father of the Son, in the Son for our redemption, and as the Holy Spirit in our regeneration." This is exactly what T. D. Jakes stated on his beliefs concerning the Trinity and what he believes concerning who God is.

Along with what the UPCI teaches on who God is and their beliefs about the Trinity there are Oneness Pentecostal Churches who have also voiced their thoughts:

"God is manifested as Father in creation and as the Father of the Son, in the Son for our redemption, and as the Holy Spirit in our regeneration...Rather than affirm the man-made doctrine known as the Trinity, we adhere to the wonderful, biblical revelation and doctrine that God is one...God is not a committee of three persons, and neither is He schizophrenic" (Apostolic Church of Clarksburg/ www.clarksburgcac.com/about.us/)

"We believe the Bible teaches that there is only one true, ever living, eternal God, infinite in power, holy in nature, attributes and purpose, and possessing absolute, invisible deity. The One true God has revealed Himself as Father, through His Son in redemption, and as the Holy Ghost, by emanation. This one true God manifested Himself in the Old Testament in various ways; in the Son while he walked among men; as the Holy Ghost after the ascension." (Bethel United Pentecostal Church/ www.bethelupc.org/faith.html)

For more information on what Oneness Pentecostal Churches and teachers teach on the issues of who God is and the Trinity, then check out our Exposing Official Doctrines & Teachings of Oneness Pentecostals.

Responding to the Doctrine of Trinity being unbiblical!
TD Jakes states he believes the word Trinity is not a Biblical term, but he is clearly mistaken. Officially the word "term" can be used to describe what something is, who someone is, an expression, giving a particular meaning, etc. So speaking Biblically the word Trinity is a Biblical term because this word describes the eternal nature of God being three distinct personages who are by nature the one true God of all, thus Tri-Unity. (Tri meaning three in identity, Unity meaning one in nature)

Narrow Is The Way
04-22-2011, 10:14 PM
This is from an online teaching at http://web.me.com/ktpowers/1/BishopTDJakes.html
The author is stating that T.D. Jakes is in false doctrine because he does not believe in the doctrine of the trinity. This was written a few years ago.

Bishop T. D. Jakes and the Trinity Doctrine

Along with T. D. Jakes obvious connections to the Oneness Pentecostals he provides clear evidence for his doctrines and beliefs being against the Biblical doctrine of the Trinity. In other words, T. D. Jakes is teaching false doctrines in opposition to what the Bible teaches on the identity of who God is. Examine the connection between what the United Pentecostal Church International (UPCI) teaches and what T. D. Jakes teaches on how God has been revealed to mankind.

At Potters House, T. D. Jakes states the following: "There is one God, Creator of all things, infinitely perfect, and eternally existing in three Manifestations: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit." (Potters House Ministries Belief Statement) What does T. D. Jakes mean by stating God is eternally existing in three manifestations? Closely comparing this with what the UPCI states it is clear that T. D. Jakes has the same theology as he did when he was involved with the Greater Emmanuel Apostolic Church.

At Potters House, T. D. Jakes states the following: "We believe in one God who is eternal in His existence, Triune in His manifestation, being both Father, Son and Holy Ghost AND that He is Sovereign and Absolute in His authority." (Potters House Ministries Doctrinal Statement) When T. D. Jakes states that God is Triune in His manifestation as being Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, he is teaching that God has revealed Himself in three different ways and not through three distinct personages. This is not Biblical and those who care about what the Bible teaches must be aware of this.

T. D. Jakes was interviewed by Living by the Word on KKLA, hosted by John Coleman, Aug. 23, 1998 and was asked the following question: "My first question would be, the Trinity would be defined as one God Who's revealed Himself in three distinct Persons, each co-equal and co-eternal. How important is it for the believing Christian to hold to this belief?" T. D. Jakes response to this question was: "The Trinity, the term Trinity, is not a biblical term, to begin with. It's a theological description for something that is so beyond human comprehension that I'm not sure that we can totally hold God to a numerical system. The Lord said, "Behold, O Israel, the Lord thy God is one, and beside Him there is no other." When God got ready to make a man that looked like Him, He didn't make three. He made one man. However, that one man had three parts. He was body, soul and spirit. We have one God, but He is Father in creation, Son in redemption, and Holy Spirit in regeneration." This is the same as what the United Pentecostal Church International states concerning their doctrines on who God is and their beliefs concerning the Trinity.

The official teachings of the United Pentecostal Church International state the following concerning who God is and what they believe about the Trinity: "In distinction to the doctrine of the Trinity, the UPCI holds to a oneness view of God. It views the Trinitarian concept of God, that of God eternally existing as three distinctive persons, as inadequate and a departure from the consistent and emphatic biblical revelation of God being one...Thus God is manifested as Father in creation and as the Father of the Son, in the Son for our redemption, and as the Holy Spirit in our regeneration." This is exactly what T. D. Jakes stated on his beliefs concerning the Trinity and what he believes concerning who God is.

Along with what the UPCI teaches on who God is and their beliefs about the Trinity there are Oneness Pentecostal Churches who have also voiced their thoughts:

"God is manifested as Father in creation and as the Father of the Son, in the Son for our redemption, and as the Holy Spirit in our regeneration...Rather than affirm the man-made doctrine known as the Trinity, we adhere to the wonderful, biblical revelation and doctrine that God is one...God is not a committee of three persons, and neither is He schizophrenic" (Apostolic Church of Clarksburg/ www.clarksburgcac.com/about.us/)

"We believe the Bible teaches that there is only one true, ever living, eternal God, infinite in power, holy in nature, attributes and purpose, and possessing absolute, invisible deity. The One true God has revealed Himself as Father, through His Son in redemption, and as the Holy Ghost, by emanation. This one true God manifested Himself in the Old Testament in various ways; in the Son while he walked among men; as the Holy Ghost after the ascension." (Bethel United Pentecostal Church/ www.bethelupc.org/faith.html)

For more information on what Oneness Pentecostal Churches and teachers teach on the issues of who God is and the Trinity, then check out our Exposing Official Doctrines & Teachings of Oneness Pentecostals.

Responding to the Doctrine of Trinity being unbiblical!
TD Jakes states he believes the word Trinity is not a Biblical term, but he is clearly mistaken. Officially the word "term" can be used to describe what something is, who someone is, an expression, giving a particular meaning, etc. So speaking Biblically the word Trinity is a Biblical term because this word describes the eternal nature of God being three distinct personages who are by nature the one true God of all, thus Tri-Unity. (Tri meaning three in identity, Unity meaning one in nature)
No offense, but I didn't take the time to read this post, All I am saying is if in fact he has denounced that there is only one God then he is ABSOLUTELY LOST.
This goes for any preacher, There is only One God and his name is Jesus. All other doctrines are false. It is sad that many here on this forum accept the teachings of the trinity. Then if you say they are going to hell, everybody gets mad. If you are so secure in your salvation then you should not get mad if somebody says that they believe a particular individual is lost. There are too many un-secure people on this forum that get their hackles up if someone actually has a backbone and says what they believe.

Dark Energy
04-22-2011, 10:15 PM
God is the judge. I am taking God at his word.
John 8:24

If T.D Jakes does not believe that Jesus Christ is the one true God, He shall die in his sins.

If he does not teach that Jesus Christ is the one true God then he does not believe it.
Who said TD does not believe Jesus is the One True God?

Narrow Is The Way
04-22-2011, 10:17 PM
Who said TD does not believe Jesus is the One True God?

Post #10 is what I am referring to.

Sam
04-22-2011, 10:27 PM
What is sad is that Mr. Jakes has denounced his affiliation with Oneness theology.

He has?
Can you document that accusation?

Sam
04-22-2011, 10:50 PM
another condemnation of T.D. Jakes for not accepting the doctrine of the Trinity.
This is from http://www.forgottenword.org/jakes.html
I don’t know the date of this article

T. D. Jakes grew up in a Oneness Pentecostal denomination which denies the essential Christian doctrine of the Trinity. When asked by Christian leaders to clarify if he believes in the Trinity [As defined in the Athanasian Creed] he will not clear up this matter. He refuses to give a clear answer as to what he means by "manifestations" when referring to the Trinity. Here is a portion of the Doctrinal Statement from the Potters House Website:

We believe in one God who is eternal in His existence, Triune in His manifestation, being both Father, Son and Holy Ghost AND that He is Sovereign and Absolute in His authority.

We believe in the Father who is God Himself, Creator of the universe. (Gen 1:1; John 1:1)

We believe that Jesus is the Son of God. (Col 2:9)

He suffered, died, was buried, and rose from the dead for our total salvation (Luke 3:21-22; Philippians 2:5-11).

We believe that Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Him (John 3:36; John 3:31-32; John 14:6).

We believe in the Holy Spirit who is God indwelling, empowering and regenerating the believer. This Holy Spirit is called the Comforter. The Spirit of Truth (John 14:17, 14:26)

So, given his background and his lack of clarification on this matter when asked by Christian leaders, there is justification to label him as a non-Trinitarian until he explains otherwise.

The doctrine of the Trinity is essential to our faith, without it there is no faith. If a person denies the Trinity they are in fact non-Christian by this very belief. This is not a trivial matter, why will he not be clear and define the terms rather than mislead by his of semantics? If he believes that the Trinity as defined in the Athanasian Creed is not scriptural, why not just say so publicly?

T. D. Jakes denies the essential Christian doctrine of the Trinity. His view is one God playing three different roles or manifestations. He believes in a god that appears in three different "manifestations." Let me quote him, "...One God, but manifest in...three different ways, Father in creation, Son in redemption, Holy Spirit in regeneration." Like one man who is a pastor, father, and husband, this view is called modalism and it is heresy.
T. D. Jakes:
"God--There is one God, Creator of all things, infinitely perfect, and eternally existing in three Manifestations: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit."


Questioner: My first question would be, the Trinity would be defined as one God Who's revealed Himself in three distinct Persons, each co-equal and co-eternal. How important is it for the believing Christian to hold to this belief?


T. D. Jakes: I think it's very, very significant that we first of all study the Trinity apart from salvation, and first of all that we embrace Christ and come to Him and come to know Who He is. Having come to know Who He is, then we begin to deal with the Trinity, which I believe is a very complex issue. The Trinity, the term Trinity, is not a biblical term, to begin with. It's a theological description for something that is so beyond human comprehension that I'm not sure that we can totally hold God to a numerical system. The Lord said, "Behold, O Israel, the Lord thy God is one, and beside Him there is no other." When God got ready to make a man that looked like Him, He didn't make three. He made one man. However, that one man had three parts. He was body, soul and spirit. We have one God, but He is Father in creation, Son in redemption, and Holy Spirit in regeneration. It's very important that we understand that, but I think that the first thing that every believer needs to do is to approach God by faith, and then having approached Him by faith, then they need to sit up under good teaching so that they can begin to understand who the God is that they have believed upon."


("Living by the Word" on KKLA, hosted by John Coleman, Aug. 23, 1998)


"CRI Coordinator of Research Sam Wall spoke over the telephone with Pastor Lawrence Robinson, Director of Ministry Affairs at the Potter's House, inquiring about their view of the Trinity. Robinson affirmed that Jakes denies the biblical position of the Trinity, at one point saying that the Roman Catholic Church introduced the concept of three gods. Robinson gave some modalistic illustrations of the Trinity and said that Jakes has always held this position. Twice after that, Wall e-mailed Pastor Robinson to confirm the content of their discussion. Robinson never responded. Wall noted in his e-mail, "Should I not hear from you by e-mail, I will assume that these statements by you are correct."


(The Man, His Ministry, And His Movement: Concerns About The Teachings Of T. D. Jakes)


Warren Smith: "T.D. Jakes is very popular in the evangelical world, and some people say he denies the doctrine of the Trinity."


Norman Geisler: "That's correct. He does. It's an old, old heresy in the Christian church called modalism. I know T.D. Jakes is very popular, and I know people don't like his ministry being called a cult, but it is. It would have been condemned by any orthodox church down through the centuries."


Warren Smith: "What does it say about the evangelical church that these heretical teachings have been allowed to creep in so readily, and even when they are identified as extra-biblical, or cultic, a lot of evangelicals just wink?"


Norman Geisler: "It says the evangelical church in America is about 3,000 mile wide and an inch deep. Doctrinally, we are very shallow. In North Carolina we are in what is called the Bible Belt, but our problem is that we don't have enough Bible under our belts. We have enough religion to makes us susceptible, but not enough doctrine to make us discerning. You can't recognize error until you can recognize the truth. I'm told that when government experts want to train people to recognize counterfeit currency, they study genuine currency. The same is true with doctrine."


("30 Minutes With Norman Geisler" World Newspaper Publishing)


"T.D. Jake's letter completely fails to answer charges that he denies the doctrine of the Trinity. Everything he says could be affirmed by any good leader of the (Oneness, vehemently anti-Trinitarian) United Pentecostal Church, for although he distinguishes the Son from the Father, he does so only by distinguishing the human Son from the divine Father—the classic United Pentecostal belief, as documented in my book "Jesus Only" Churches (Zondervan, 1997) and defended in many UPC publications, such as David Bernard's The Oneness of God. Until he clearly affirms that Father, Son, and Spirit are eternally distinct Persons, not merely that they are "three" and "one"—never defining his terms—he should be considered anti-Trinitarian and by no means welcomed to preach in Christian circles."


(E. Calvin Beisner, Author of God in Three Persons (Tyndale House, 1984) and "Jesus Only" Churches (Zondervan, 1997). Associate Professor of Interdisciplinary Studies Covenant College, Lookout Mountain, Georgia)


"In his rebuttal Jakes never affirms an ontological Trinity but only an economic one. He speaks of different functions the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit perform, but then he clarifies that he does not believe in three Gods, by which it is fairly clear he means Persons. Even the illustration of H20 taking the forms of ice, water, and steam says nothing about three persons, only three manifestations, and is in fact a common illustration used by modalists to explain their view. The key tip-off that Jakes is a dyed-in-the-wool modalist is his unwavering insistence — both before our article was published and even in response to our article — on using the word manifestations rather than persons in regard to the Trinity. Sabellius consistently avoided the use of the term “persons” (Greek: hypostasis) in favor of the term “manifestations.”...Actually, all of the passages Jakes cites that use the term “manifestation” refer to the Incarnation of Christ (the “manifestation” of the Second Person of the Trinity in human form), except 1 Corinthians 12:7, which speaks of the “manifestation” of the Spirit; that is, the charismatic gifts. None of them are concerned with the doctrine of the Trinity per se, and therefore they do not use the word “manifestations” in the way that Jakes and Oneness teachers use it. In light of all this, it is hard to believe Jakes when he says that the language in his ministry’s doctrinal statement does not derive from modalism. If in fact he believes in the orthodox doctrine of the Trinity, then he can clear this controversy up and satisfy all Trinitarians by simply affirming in his doctrinal statement and in all of his ministry’s teachings that not only does he believe in the Trinity, but he also believes the Trinity comprises three eternally distinct Persons, who together are the one and only Almighty God. If he cannot bring himself to do that and yet still insists that he holds to the Trinity, then evangelicals should understand that it is he, and not his critics, who uses clever semantics to obfuscate the truth."


(Elliot Miller, "T. D. Jakes Responds to The Journal")


"Don't argue with people about foolishness. Don't argue about the Godhead--the Bible says it's a mystery. If it's a mystery that means it's a supernatural thing and everybody who thinks they understand it--really don't. It's impossible to explain how one God can be three persons and three persons be one God. And you're gonna blow your computer and short circuit your p.c. trying to explain something that you don't even understand. You can't even explain how a brown cow eats green grass and produces white milk. So you know you can't explain God. So just shut up arguing about it and say it's a mystery. All we know is that He's Father in creation, Son in redemption, and Holy Ghost in regeneration and it's all good."


(T. D. Jakes, "Bible Answer Man Show," Hank Hanegraaff, Audio-Clip, June 3, 2005)


Note: T. D. Jakes says it's foolishness to argue about the Godhead! So when a Jehovah's Witness tells you that Jesus is not God we should just be silent and accept them? He tells us to shut up about it? This is outrageous! After telling us to "Shut up about it" T. D. Jakes goes on to "Explain" the Godhead using a oneness (Modalism) definition.


"And God said, 'Let us. Let usssssss...'" says Jakes, and then digresses: "...One God, but manifest in...three different ways, Father in creation, Son in redemption, Holy Spirit in regeneration."
(T. D. Jakes, "Spirit Raiser," Time Magazine, September 17, 2001)

kclee4jc
04-23-2011, 08:05 AM
He has?
Can you document that accusation?

I can give you a reference. A book entitled "The Journey of T.D. Jakes" states that when Jakes attended his first pentecostal church he was not aware that it was a oneness church and does not carry those doctrines with him today. I wish i could quote it for you. I got the book out of interest a while back and threw it away when i was cleaning out my bookshelf.

Sam
04-23-2011, 10:21 AM
I can give you a reference. A book entitled "The Journey of T.D. Jakes" states that when Jakes attended his first pentecostal church he was not aware that it was a oneness church and does not carry those doctrines with him today. I wish i could quote it for you. I got the book out of interest a while back and threw it away when i was cleaning out my bookshelf.

thank you.

I've quoted two sources that condemned him for his oneness view on the godhead. I don't know the dates for these sources but they were based on questions asked him and someone from the church and from the church statement of faith.

It seems that T.D. Jakes is a one-stepper, practices baptism in Jesus' name, and has a oneness view of the godhead. I would call that Apostolic but some would not.

Hoovie
04-23-2011, 11:07 AM
I would call him Apostolic and even under the general umbrella of Oneness Pentecostal. This was defined by Talamage French who wrote "Our God is One" and identified over 23 million Oneness Pentecostals across the globe.

I think those who baptize involking the name of Jesus and expect tongues as a sign of Spirit baptism can be considered OP regardless of other theological, or soteriological views they may embrace.

Sister Alvear
04-23-2011, 12:11 PM
I have always heard that he was oneness but I really don't know.

onefaith2
04-24-2011, 10:53 PM
Trinity is quick to condemn oneness doctrine. Oneness sometimes is quick to condemn trinity doctrine. Lets quit with the condemning. If you have the Son, you have the Father also. The other prerequisite to being saved regarding the doctrine of God is to believe that there is One God and JEsus Christ is the Son of God. Jesus did not say, if you believe not that I am the Father; he said if you believe not that I am he. Trinitarians and oneness people need to quit condemning each other because they misunderstand each other's position.

Jesus want to save us all and lead us into all truth. The Revelation of One God is a priviledge folks, not a right. If we get pompus with it, Jesus will move elsewhere because in knowing about God's self Revelation, we then deny God in action and in word by taking judgement in our own hands.

If you believe not that I am He, you will die in your sins.

That whosoever believeth in HIm (Jesus) should not perish

1 Corinthians 15:1-4.. we have to believe the gospel!

Sam
04-24-2011, 11:10 PM
Trinity is quick to condemn oneness doctrine. Oneness sometimes is quick to condemn trinity doctrine. Lets quit with the condemning. If you have the Son, you have the Father also. The other prerequisite to being saved regarding the doctrine of God is to believe that there is One God and JEsus Christ is the Son of God. Jesus did not say, if you believe not that I am the Father; he said if you believe not that I am he. Trinitarians and oneness people need to quit condemning each other because they misunderstand each other's position.

Jesus want to save us all and lead us into all truth. The Revelation of One God is a priviledge folks, not a right. If we get pompus with it, Jesus will move elsewhere because in knowing about God's self Revelation, we then deny God in action and in word by taking judgement in our own hands.

If you believe not that I am He, you will die in your sins.

That whosoever believeth in HIm (Jesus) should not perish

1 Corinthians 15:1-4.. we have to believe the gospel!

Jesus claimed to be the I AM or YHWH of the Old Testament.
Trinitarians and oneness both believe that Jesus Christ is the I AM or YHWH or Jehovah. So both trinitarians and oneness comply with John 8:24

If you believe that Jesus is the Christ --that He is God's Son and your Savior-- then you are a child of God." 1 John 5:1

Hoovie
04-24-2011, 11:28 PM
Jesus claimed to be the I AM or YHWH of the Old Testament.
Trinitarians and oneness both believe that Jesus Christ is the I AM or YHWH or Jehovah. So both trinitarians and oneness comply with John 8:24

If you believe that Jesus is the Christ --that He is God's Son and your Savior-- then you are a child of God." 1 John 5:1

:thumbsup:thumbsup