Sincerely Wrong

[kingdomapostle]

Just a thought...

If God rewards them that seek Him, why would anyone who is HONESTLY and earnestly seeking the Lord, and who has confessed that Jesus is Lord in their life, in spite of what we say...

Go to hell?


Your thoughts?

[Sister Alvear]

I think GO to Hell is a crude expression to start with!

[kingdomapostle]

Okay...what is a better way to word it Sis?

[Cindy]

Just a thought...

If God rewards them that seek Him, why would anyone who is HONESTLY and earnestly seeking the Lord, and who has confessed that Jesus is Lord in their life, in spite of what we say...

Go to hell?


Your thoughts?

Who says they're going to hell?

[kingdomapostle]

Most of the time...we do. Especially if we disagree with their doctrine (which still may be developing although they are seeking the Lord).

[Cindy]

Most of the time...we do. Especially if we disagree with their doctrine (which still may be developing although they are seeking the Lord).

Oh, sorry. I thought you meant the Word said that somewhere.

[kingdomapostle]

Oh, sorry. I thought you meant the Word said that somewhere.

Oh. No, not the word. :)

[Pressing-On]

Most of the time...we do. Especially if we disagree with their doctrine (which still may be developing although they are seeking the Lord).

That's the whole issue and something that gets overlooked. Everyone started out somewhere and if they are following after God, they are on a journey. We have to be careful not to crush their spirit along the way or ridicule where they are as the final destination. Of course, that is a whole different game, IMO, than someone who once had truth and embraced another Gospel. (Galatians 3:1)

[kingdomapostle]

Sometimes you don't know for sure that you HAD the truth...and then you start out seeking (not suggesting one should do that - as in trying out other false gods..etc.) but if I would not have looked for something deeper than what I was presented as truth, I would still be lost in tradition. (I was not brought up Apostolic).

[Pressing-On]

Sometimes you don't know for sure that you HAD the truth...and then you start out seeking (not suggesting one should do that - as in trying out other false gods..etc.) but if I would not have looked for something deeper than what I was presented as truth, I would still be lost in tradition. (I was not brought up Apostolic).

You know, I am thinking that God was leading me more than I was seeking. Think that would be a bigger factor? I think that God leads us and we attribute that to something we have done on our own. After all, the Word says that we cannot come to God unless the Spirit draws us.

[kingdomapostle]

You know, I am thinking that God was leading me more than I was seeking. Think that would be a bigger factor? I think that God leads us and we attribute that to something we have done on our own. After all, the Word says that we cannot come to God unless the Spirit draws us.

Yes, He is drawing me. I can't think up all this stuff by myself. lol No, even as a child sitting in the church I was raised in, I always had a suspicion that led me to what I now have as a solid belief...there is MORE to God than what they are telling me. That's when I began to seek Him for myself. I seek Him daily.

[Aquila]

Just a thought...

If God rewards them that seek Him, why would anyone who is HONESTLY and earnestly seeking the Lord, and who has confessed that Jesus is Lord in their life, in spite of what we say...

Go to hell?


Your thoughts?

How do you seek God? Most don't realize this... but the very desire to seek God isn't in our fallen human nature. God must draw us to Himself. If one is seeking God, asking questions, turning to the Word... we don't give them credit and praise for doing so. Why? Because they are only responding to an inward pull of the Spirit.

One can logically conclude that there must be a God and seek him accademically... but if they aren't being drawn... it's just religion.

[kingdomapostle]

How do you seek God? Most don't realize this... but the very desire to seek God isn't in our fallen human nature. God must draw us to Himself. If one is seeking God, asking questions, turning to the Word... we don't give them credit and praise for doing so. Why? Because they are only responding to an inward pull of the Spirit.

One can logically conclude that there must be a God and seek him accademically... but if they aren't being drawn... it's just religion.

Hum...well He said He would draw ALL men..but are they following His drawing?

[NorCal]

How do you know they are diligently seeking him?
We know he rewards them that do, but is that proof that they are seeking him?

We know those that diligently seek him, change into the likeness of Christ. In all aspects.

[acerrak]

How do you know they are diligently seeking him?
We know he rewards them that do, but is that proof that they are seeking him?

We know those that diligently seek him, change into the likeness of Christ. In all aspects.

fruits my dear brother fruits.. Jesus said you will know them by their fruits.

[SeekingOne]

fruits my dear brother fruits.. Jesus said you will know them by their fruits.

Yes, but then we here on earth get back to determining good fruit according to OUR opinions.

Galatians 5:22-23

Amplified Bible (AMP)

22But the fruit of the [Holy] Spirit [the work which His presence within accomplishes] is love, joy (gladness), peace, patience (an even temper, forbearance), kindness, goodness (benevolence), faithfulness,

23Gentleness (meekness, humility), self-control (self-restraint, continence). Against such things there is no law [[a]that can bring a charge].

I feel like I have these fruits as much as the people that say I am going to hell because I left their church, in other words, God.

[SeekingOne]

How do you seek God? Most don't realize this... but the very desire to seek God isn't in our fallen human nature. God must draw us to Himself. If one is seeking God, asking questions, turning to the Word... we don't give them credit and praise for doing so. Why? Because they are only responding to an inward pull of the Spirit.

One can logically conclude that there must be a God and seek him accademically... but if they aren't being drawn... it's just religion.

:thumbsup :highfive So true!

Some are drawn to religion because the set of rules gives them "peace" that they are accomplishing what THEY want, to go to heaven and please God. Then they must find security in believing the "others" are NOT going to heaven, because if they are where does that leave them? They are doing all this for nothing and their leaders are lying to them. Okay, don't think about it, just keep following the religion.

Being drawn to God, instead of religion, causes us to have peace because we feel God's presence and don't feel a need to perform for him. We naturally do what pleases God when HE is the one we are communing with.

[Jake1611]

Just a thought...

If God rewards them that seek Him, why would anyone who is HONESTLY and earnestly seeking the Lord, and who has confessed that Jesus is Lord in their life, in spite of what we say...

Go to hell?


Your thoughts?

Well, it isn't enough to just seek God. One must be spiritually born again. Take people like the JWs and the mormons. They will tell you they love God, seek His favor and do all the "right" things. Yet these folks are not saved, sincere though they may be in their search for the truth. This honestly seeking the Lord MUST lead to spiritual rebirth for God to reward them.

[Godsdrummer]

Just a thought

If sin is sin no matter how big or small, then false doctrine is false doctrine no matter how far off or close to truth. The point is if a group beleives they have the whole truth yet are wrong in areas of works based teachings, what is the difference between them and a group that teaches or missunderstands the diety of God?

On the same thought even in oneness groups they cannot agree on thier understanding of the oneness or definition. As seen right here on this forum, how can one group condenm another group that does not see things in the same light as they do? WE can't.

[kingdomapostle]

We can't but God is the judge. :) Better be right with Him. He gives us a guide-- the Bible.

[kingdomapostle]

Just a thought

If sin is sin no matter how big or small, then false doctrine is false doctrine no matter how far off or close to truth. The point is if a group beleives they have the whole truth yet are wrong in areas of works based teachings, what is the difference between them and a group that teaches or missunderstands the diety of God?

On the same thought even in oneness groups they cannot agree on thier understanding of the oneness or definition. As seen right here on this forum, how can one group condenm another group that does not see things in the same light as they do? WE can't.

They have the same testimony: Jesus redemed me by His blood. My life has changed. I am no longer the same. I feel His presence living inside of me. I enjoy fellowship with Him.

Worship through the same songs
Attend services just as often as many of us do
Read the same Bible
Experience His power working in them daily

...and yet "we" say that they are not saved

Explain that somebody.

[Godsdrummer]

They have the same testimony: Jesus redemed me by His blood. My life has changed. I am no longer the same. I feel His presence living inside of me. I enjoy fellowship with Him.

Worship through the same songs
Attend services just as often as many of us do
Read the same Bible
Experience His power working in them daily

...and yet "we" say that they are not saved

Explain that somebody.

:thumbsup

Not only that ever attend thier services for a time without becoming judgmental that they don't teach the true plan of salvation?

They even preach the same bible as we do not false doctrines, if any thing they teach more sound Christian principles than most Apostolic churches. because they are not just preaching the five standard topics found in most Apostolic churches, ie tithes, church attendance, baptism in Jesus name, oneness of the godhead, and standards of holiness.

[acerrak]

They have the same testimony: Jesus redemed me by His blood. My life has changed. I am no longer the same. I feel His presence living inside of me. I enjoy fellowship with Him.

Worship through the same songs
Attend services just as often as many of us do
Read the same Bible
Experience His power working in them daily

...and yet "we" say that they are not saved

Explain that somebody.

Jesus said you will know His disciples by there fruit. For a Good tree cant produce basd fruit, so a good tree produces good fruit.

we can see that fruit in galations 5:22

Denominational theology and doctrine loses to these 2 verses here.

Its plain. MY disciples will produce fruit. Thats how you will know them. He could have said by other tounges. He could have said you will know them by the way they dress, but he didnt. He said you will know them by thier fruits.

[Aquila]

Just a thought...

If God rewards them that seek Him, why would anyone who is HONESTLY and earnestly seeking the Lord, and who has confessed that Jesus is Lord in their life, in spite of what we say...

Go to hell?


Your thoughts?

Only God can judge the heart. I believe each church can set it's standards of fellowship.

[Falla39]

If we are Spiritual fruit trees, the fruit that comes from our tree should PRODUCE the
same fruit as produced the trees we are. The tree I came from, and the tree my father
and mother came from, SHOULD PRODUCE the same kind of fruit as the original spiritual
tree. I said SHOULD!
The fruit of the Spirit will be manifested in us by the PRODUCE that comes from our tree.
What is fruit! Produce! The Spirit IN us will be what produces the fruit. IF we don't bear
fruit of the Spirit, could it be the Spirit is not in us!

You will know them by their fruit.
Luke 6:43
For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth
good fruit.

Perhaps a tree/person that had been a healthy tree/person, and could have resulted in
producing good fruit/produce, became corrupted and if the things that are causing the
tree to become corrupted/rotten, it can corrupt the whole tree, family/church/organiza-
tion, nationm or otherwise, if permitted to continue.

Don't ever give up on the tree or the branches until it/they are dead. Every good tree is
worth the effort/etc that it takes to save it. Rot/evil may try to set in and corrupt that
tree but perhaps there are means of saving that tree IF someone cares enough to work
with it, and nurture it back to wholeness.

Just some thoughts,

Falla39

[acerrak]

If we are Spiritual fruit trees, the fruit that comes from our tree should PRODUCE the
same fruit as produced the trees we are. The tree I came from, and the tree my father
and mother came from, SHOULD PRODUCE the same kind of fruit as the original spiritual
tree. I said SHOULD!
The fruit of the Spirit will be manifested in us by the PRODUCE that comes from our tree.
What is fruit! Produce! The Spirit IN us will be what produces the fruit. IF we don't bear
fruit of the Spirit, could it be the Spirit is not in us!

You will know them by their fruit.
Luke 6:43
For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth
good fruit.

Perhaps a tree/person that had been a healthy tree/person, and could have resulted in
producing good fruit/produce, became corrupted and if the things that are causing the
tree to become corrupted/rotten, it can corrupt the whole tree, family/church/organiza-
tion, nationm or otherwise, if permitted to continue.

Don't ever give up on the tree or the branches until it/they are dead. Every good tree is
worth the effort/etc that it takes to save it. Rot/evil may try to set in and corrupt that
tree but perhaps there are means of saving that tree IF someone cares enough to work
with it, and nurture it back to wholeness.

Just some thoughts,

Falla39

I see were your comming from but your going about it the wrong way.
Everyone in Christ should produce fruit according to galations 5:22.

however the manifestation of the way the fruit procedes may not be like that of some one else. Will there be similiarities ofcourse.

One may show kindness to one by giving them money for food, one may give them food, while the other invites them to eat food together. its just a example of the difference of how fruits can manifest.

we are all in the Body of Christ but everyone of us are different.
we have different strengths and weakness. One person can be out going and proclaim the word to 1000's while one can greatly share the word with a small class of children.

just like what you stated about the bad tree, i agree.

I saw a movie called the encounter. really Good about 5 people on there way to death, set up in a modern setting. Jesus shows up in a small dinner as a waiter.

During this movie he pleads with them out of love, to change there ways, and how has been there the whole time during hurt pain and sorrow. One of them is to pride full, doesnt need jesus and lives and perishes. the other 4 except the Lord to rebuild there life in the way he wants them to grow.

But what stuck out the most is the man who was prideful used scripture to try and combat Jesus, However Jesus didnt get defensive, nor angry and kept showing him love. Jesus said im here to honor the prayers of your grand mother. who diligently prayed for you. Its a real nice movie with some modern day applications.

Just Like the Lord was fighting for that mans souls in the Movie up until the man made the decision to leave. He did what he could except for bending the free will of the man.

good movie

[Falla39]

If the Spiritual tree/person is first generation and they are filled with the Spirit, they have all the potential needed to become a good fruit bearing tree. Bearing Spiritual fruit is a sign of spiritual maturity. Just as a healthy, mature fruit tree
brings forth good fruit.

The fruit will come later. There is work to be done, perhaps need fertilizing/feeding, watering, keeping the weeds away. Perhaps pruning, etc. There is a process before mature Spiritual fruit trees begin to produce Spiritual fruit. (Love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, meekness, temperence, faith).

Falla39

[acerrak]

If the Spiritual tree/person is first generation and they are filled with the Spirit, they have all the potential needed to become a good fruit bearing tree. Bearing Spiritual fruit is a sign of spiritual maturity. Just as a healthy, mature fruit tree
brings forth good fruit.

The fruit will come later. There is work to be done, perhaps need fertilizing/feeding, watering, keeping the weeds away. Perhaps pruning, etc. There is a process before mature Spiritual fruit trees begin to produce Spiritual fruit. (Love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, meekness, temperence, faith).

Falla39

agreed

1 peter 2;2
Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation—