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Truth Files
06-13-2011, 06:07 PM
The prophetic scriptures are very explicit regarding the Islamic nations that surround Israel at the time of the end and it is this culture and setting that will produce Satan's beast in the little horn .... all of the related prophetic visions make this distinction, and none of them point to a western backdrop for the same

The entire theme of the Middle Eastern culture and kingdoms that have ruled there since the flood present the correct view .... it is human theology and the insertion of speculative ideas that become flawed and off course

The example of a revived Roman Empire is one of the biggest .... Rome is not even in the scope of the prophetic scriptures .... and none can prove that it is

Neither is the name of the Roman Empire or any actions taken by the same in the scope as are all of the others explicitally and specifically named in scripture .... all of this fabrication is bogus and not a part of the prophecies of the Bible prophets ..... not one of them has this view

Neither does the Lord have it .... all of His projection recorded in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 is for the time of the end of this present age ..... this 70th week decreed for Israel has not come yet .... and 70 A.D. is not described in it, or in any of the writings of His prophets

The kingdoms of the Middle East in the scope are all named in the visions: Babylon, Media/Persia, Syrio/Babylonia [north] .... lion, bear, leopard [Daniel 7:3-6; Revelation 13:1-2] .... Rome was none of these during its existence and will not be at the time of the end ..... not in this picture

Those who reject these facts are teaching an extra-biblical idea that was born out of the reformation period with the objective to make the Bible prophecies fit the immediate conditions of those who dreamed it up ..... the reformers did not understand Bible prophecy and the list of them and their subsequent followings is long

They spent far to much time using the prophetic scriptures to support their own ambitions and not enough time in study with the Lord's guidance

They attempted to brand the popes and the RCC as the European setting and as the continuation of the rule of political Rome [This church and its teachings are very apostate for sure, but the organization is not recorded in the scope of the prophetic visions .... however, it is among those who have strayed, and a significant part of the Lord's negative evaluations contained within His message given in Revelation of chapters 2 and 3]

Just because Rome was the next intruder into the Middle East after the fall of Syrio/Babylonia [a very Middle Eastern culture, and not western Grecian, or Roman] does not give the liberty to insert the empire into the scope of the prophetic visions .... there were several subsequent replacement rules in the Middle East after Rome, none of which are contained in the scope either

The prophetic scope of the visions of the prophets simply does not allow for Rome's insertion [the visions are silent between the end of the 69th week decreed for Israel ..... and the beginning of the 70th still pending]

As long as those who push the "Rome" concept continue with this extra-biblical concoction, neither they or their followers will ever understand and render and interpret the prophecies with accuracy

A number of them will not move from their standing because they have written books, posted on public Internet forums, and have painted themselves into a corner with no possibility of escape

Pride is in their way and they simply will not return to the drawing board to evaluate their own misdirected off course teachings .... this does not bode well for their witnessing to a lost world

The Lord's prophetic Word is set and completed without flaw .... and all of it can be understood, past fulfilled, and future ..... otherwise there would be no purpose in providing those that belong to Him with information that is confusing and beyond one's understanding

If you observe them discussing Biblical exegesis among their own camp you will find them wretching over things like where to place the battle of Armageddon in the schedule in an attempt to prove out their flawed overview .... Armageddon is the final conclusive battle of the coming tribulation period of the Lord's wrath and judgment of 2550 days and the scriptures are very clear on this truth [Ezekiel 39; Revelation 19:11-21]

They will do almost anything in an attempt to force fit their obscured renditions like inserting the battle of Armageddon before the 70th week decreed, or in the middle of it .... on and on they go with no satisfactory mutually held conclusions

The number one rule for rendering the prophetic scriptures is to refrain from drawing conclusions prematurely ..... one must build upon a solid foundation of the study and not to go beyond by adding unsupported ideas without completed evaluations .... only then should one move forward with additional discoveries from the scriptures that fit, not by adding extra-biblical speculations

So the reformers of today who carry this false idea about a revived European Rome in place of a continued Middle Eastern setting from intiquity to the time of the end need to either adjust their thinking by revisiting the prophetic scriptures and get it right, or get out of the business of teaching it wrong

The preterist, post-tribulation view, and even some of the most visible of the pre-tribulational view have missed the correct prophetic picture .... one good example is the teaching of the SDA organization that still clings to Ellen G. White's rendition of the prophetic scriptures which is held on par with the Bible

This movement has broken just about every scriptural precept with regard to the prophetic scriptures from speculated flawed date setting to the view of an anti-christ Pope and a revived Roman Empire from Europe ..... anyone who understands the many pit falls of the SDA organization's teaching must question why the idea of a revived Roman Empire is a mainstay and part of the SDA baggage

Not only that, but the SDA is a prime replacement theology carrier by replacing national Israel's position in the prophetic scriptures and appropriating the same for themselves .... and any O.T. prophecies which refute replacement theology hands down are either relegated to allegory or swept under the rug

This organization is not alone in the business of teaching flawed prophetic views .... there many and all need investigation and evaluation

Bible prophecy is the Lord's grand revelation which authenticates His eternal power and presence, and must never be abused by shoddy manipulation for self gain .... all who do this will pay the price [Revelation 22:18-19]

Bible prophecy is not for those who abuse it and certainly not for amateurs who dabble in it .... this is why there is argumentation, division, and self-religious propriety in professing christianity today .... and this pathetic condition returns nothing but foolishness and negative witness to an unbelieving world
__________________

acerrak
06-13-2011, 06:57 PM
the sda have major issues, born out of a failed prophecy, a woman false prophet who contridicts her own writings, saved by works. anyone who goes to church on sunday is going to hell. ammalgamation. sabbath keeping is the seal not the spirit.

the woman is a fake, i have some off her books and debating them for along time. they state all churched except theirs went apostate since about 70 a.d. from the true teachings.

Yes they do blame rome for everything, even when there having a bad hair day.
but some people besides sda also look at roman catholic church changing sides when the false messiah comes, i to look at the muslim world similiar like you do, and Aquila made some good comments in another post awhile back how the muslim messiah would actually fit right in with current scriptures being the false messiah in revelations

mfblume
06-13-2011, 07:54 PM
All futurist prophecy fails in inserting a gap between the 69th and 70th weeks. Once that gap is recognized as error, and once Christ is noticed to be the HE in Dan 9:27, these fad-like viewpoints, the latest being an Islamic antichrist, fall apart. My thoughts, anyway.

Praxeas
06-13-2011, 09:08 PM
the sda have major issues, born out of a failed prophecy, a woman false prophet who contridicts her own writings, saved by works. anyone who goes to church on sunday is going to hell. ammalgamation. sabbath keeping is the seal not the spirit.

the woman is a fake, i have some off her books and debating them for along time. they state all churched except theirs went apostate since about 70 a.d. from the true teachings.

Yes they do blame rome for everything, even when there having a bad hair day.
but some people besides sda also look at roman catholic church changing sides when the false messiah comes, i to look at the muslim world similiar like you do, and Aquila made some good comments in another post awhile back how the muslim messiah would actually fit right in with current scriptures being the false messiah in revelations
While all SDAs are sabbath keepers they aren't all into that Sunday worship is the mark of the beast stuff

acerrak
06-13-2011, 09:18 PM
While all SDAs are sabbath keepers they aren't all into that Sunday worship is the mark of the beast stuff

then there some type of sda reformist i have never met. they pass out books for free. called the comming sunday law. In general majority of them are the way i described. i say your dealing with a rarity.

I probably have dealt with more sda's in debates than i have over the Godhead.

but not just for the sunday laws, for the sabbath the seal, the given of the law, etc

they also believe that your sins will be placed upon satan, so satan wil bear your sins, another one of ellens teachings.


also those bible books you see in doctor offices all over the country are sda material

Truth Files
06-13-2011, 09:50 PM
A general response:

The abuse of the prophetic scriptures is common ground with many of the organizations who have and do profess to be christian

The reason is the attractiveness, and this is the bait of the false teacher who manipulates those that follow for self gain [2Peter 2]

The Lord said that many would come in His name and that they would deceive many people [Matthew 24: 4-5] .... they have ..... and they are here in great numbers in these last days

One must study thyself approved at present .... and this is possible, but only if one has proper motivation, is willing to spend the time, and is open to the Lord's guidance [His spirit will lead you into all truth]

Understanding the prophetic scriptures is not a requirement of His salvation, but when one becomes saved you will have the desire to know His prophetic word and to understand it .... the more you understand the more effective will be you witness to those who reject the Bible's authenticity

There are a few significant precepts that one must know and one of them is this: there is nothing recorded in the scope of the visions of the Bible prophets of events upon the earth between the Lord's first and second advent, between the end of the 69th week decreed for Israel and the beginning of the 70th which is still pending

There is a breach that can be found in all of the visions extending from about 33 A.D. to this very day ..... and there is nothing recorded of events upon the earth in this silence

The Lord has delayed His coming visitation because His national people of Israel rejected Him as Messiah and King .... but this is going to change during the coming 70th week decreed and a believing remnant will turn to Him [Isaiah 11; 27:13; Jeremiah 30; 31; Zechariah 13:8-9; Romans 11:25-36]

If any have questions regarding this breach I can show you where it exists in the prophetic visions .... with out this knowledge, you will not be able to render the prophetic scriptures correctly

And the prophetic scriptures directly identify Satan's beast in the little horn of Daniel's visions as rising in the Middle East at the beginning of the coming tribulation period of the Lord's wrath and judgment against an unbelieving world ..... His intent will also be to pressure a remnant part of Israel to turn to Him during the same

This truth can also be demonstrated with scripture and I will respond to any who need more understanding on this matter

Watch the Middle East for developments that are moving the world closer to His return .... He will return to Israel in the Middle East .... and keep in mind that He is an Israelite by His own humanity, Israel is His nation, Jerusalem is His city, and He will rule the earth from this land upon His appearing at the end of His hour [time] of trial and judgment that will rid the earth of human self rule and He will take back the earth for Himself [Micah 4; 5; Zechariah 14]

afp1996
07-27-2011, 10:46 AM
Did not Jesus Himself say that his Kingdom is not of this world. Isn't it a more Biblical response to believe that Jesus rules spiritually in a spiritual Kingdom?

Truth Files
08-01-2011, 09:20 PM
His kingdom is not of this world and if you are a believer you are not either

The mortal believer must live in the world, but not to be a part of it .... separated

His kingdom of believers [His church] is heaven bound and to rule with Him forever over His entire endless universe forever [this will begin when He comes to immortalize believers [both those asleep and those living at the time] [1Corinthians 15:22-58]

But He still has things to finish: He is coming to judge an unbelieving world [like the flood] .... and then He intends to establish His millennial kingdom on the earth [different than His heavenly kingdom] ..... a kingdom of mortals that will last for 1000 years and He will rule in person from Jerusalem, Israel [Ezekiel 40-48; Micah 4:1-3; 5:5-8; Zechariah 12; 13; 14; Revelation 20:1-6] .... and His immortal church will rule with Him

The false teaching of a revived Roman Empire on the earth is held by many reformation theologists today [those who base their understanding of the prophetic scriptures upon the reformation movements of the past] .... this is not going to happen

The focus of the Bible prophets is on the Middle East, past and future .... the place where the Lord intends to return visibly at the end of this present age

A believing remnant of Israel is going to turn to Him and He will rescue this remnant from the nation's Middle Eastern enemies who are today the Muslims that surround Israel .... this setting is no in the process of moving toward the fulfillment of the prophetic visions schedule for the time of the end .... watch the Middle East and study your Bible

I will answer any reasonable questions on this matter

AreYouReady?
10-13-2011, 10:39 PM
What have you thought about the Club of Rome think tank dividing the world into 10 regions or "super nations"? Each region will have their own president or king. The european union was to be the first model. Their 25 nation membership rotate the presidency and the people cannot and do not elect their president. He is appointed. At present, they are not doing very well as one entity.

bbyrd009
04-18-2012, 08:38 PM
Did not Jesus Himself say that his Kingdom is not of this world. Isn't it a more Biblical response to believe that Jesus rules spiritually in a spiritual Kingdom?

Well, that gets the lip service, anyway.
Much more interesting to divine about actual bloodshed
for most Christians, turn the Revelation
into Revelations, don'cha know.

Most of us are just itchin' to frag some foreigner, lol.

deafdriscoll
04-06-2013, 04:27 PM
most of what the OP said i agree with.

Walks_in_islam
05-11-2013, 09:17 PM
The prophetic scriptures are very explicit regarding the Islamic nations that surround Israel at the time of the end and it is this culture and setting that will produce Satan's beast in the little horn .... all of the related prophetic visions make this distinction, and none of them point to a western backdrop for the same

The entire theme of the Middle Eastern culture and kingdoms that have ruled there since the flood present the correct view .... it is human theology and the insertion of speculative ideas that become flawed and off course

The example of a revived Roman Empire is one of the biggest .... Rome is not even in the scope of the prophetic scriptures .... and none can prove that it is

Neither is the name of the Roman Empire or any actions taken by the same in the scope as are all of the others explicitally and specifically named in scripture .... all of this fabrication is bogus and not a part of the prophecies of the Bible prophets ..... not one of them has this view

Neither does the Lord have it .... all of His projection recorded in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 is for the time of the end of this present age ..... this 70th week decreed for Israel has not come yet .... and 70 A.D. is not described in it, or in any of the writings of His prophets

The kingdoms of the Middle East in the scope are all named in the visions: Babylon, Media/Persia, Syrio/Babylonia [north] .... lion, bear, leopard [Daniel 7:3-6; Revelation 13:1-2] .... Rome was none of these during its existence and will not be at the time of the end ..... not in this picture

Those who reject these facts are teaching an extra-biblical idea that was born out of the reformation period with the objective to make the Bible prophecies fit the immediate conditions of those who dreamed it up ..... the reformers did not understand Bible prophecy and the list of them and their subsequent followings is long

They spent far to much time using the prophetic scriptures to support their own ambitions and not enough time in study with the Lord's guidance

They attempted to brand the popes and the RCC as the European setting and as the continuation of the rule of political Rome [This church and its teachings are very apostate for sure, but the organization is not recorded in the scope of the prophetic visions .... however, it is among those who have strayed, and a significant part of the Lord's negative evaluations contained within His message given in Revelation of chapters 2 and 3]

Just because Rome was the next intruder into the Middle East after the fall of Syrio/Babylonia [a very Middle Eastern culture, and not western Grecian, or Roman] does not give the liberty to insert the empire into the scope of the prophetic visions .... there were several subsequent replacement rules in the Middle East after Rome, none of which are contained in the scope either

The prophetic scope of the visions of the prophets simply does not allow for Rome's insertion [the visions are silent between the end of the 69th week decreed for Israel ..... and the beginning of the 70th still pending]

As long as those who push the "Rome" concept continue with this extra-biblical concoction, neither they or their followers will ever understand and render and interpret the prophecies with accuracy

A number of them will not move from their standing because they have written books, posted on public Internet forums, and have painted themselves into a corner with no possibility of escape

Pride is in their way and they simply will not return to the drawing board to evaluate their own misdirected off course teachings .... this does not bode well for their witnessing to a lost world

The Lord's prophetic Word is set and completed without flaw .... and all of it can be understood, past fulfilled, and future ..... otherwise there would be no purpose in providing those that belong to Him with information that is confusing and beyond one's understanding

If you observe them discussing Biblical exegesis among their own camp you will find them wretching over things like where to place the battle of Armageddon in the schedule in an attempt to prove out their flawed overview .... Armageddon is the final conclusive battle of the coming tribulation period of the Lord's wrath and judgment of 2550 days and the scriptures are very clear on this truth [Ezekiel 39; Revelation 19:11-21]

They will do almost anything in an attempt to force fit their obscured renditions like inserting the battle of Armageddon before the 70th week decreed, or in the middle of it .... on and on they go with no satisfactory mutually held conclusions

The number one rule for rendering the prophetic scriptures is to refrain from drawing conclusions prematurely ..... one must build upon a solid foundation of the study and not to go beyond by adding unsupported ideas without completed evaluations .... only then should one move forward with additional discoveries from the scriptures that fit, not by adding extra-biblical speculations

So the reformers of today who carry this false idea about a revived European Rome in place of a continued Middle Eastern setting from intiquity to the time of the end need to either adjust their thinking by revisiting the prophetic scriptures and get it right, or get out of the business of teaching it wrong

The preterist, post-tribulation view, and even some of the most visible of the pre-tribulational view have missed the correct prophetic picture .... one good example is the teaching of the SDA organization that still clings to Ellen G. White's rendition of the prophetic scriptures which is held on par with the Bible

This movement has broken just about every scriptural precept with regard to the prophetic scriptures from speculated flawed date setting to the view of an anti-christ Pope and a revived Roman Empire from Europe ..... anyone who understands the many pit falls of the SDA organization's teaching must question why the idea of a revived Roman Empire is a mainstay and part of the SDA baggage

Not only that, but the SDA is a prime replacement theology carrier by replacing national Israel's position in the prophetic scriptures and appropriating the same for themselves .... and any O.T. prophecies which refute replacement theology hands down are either relegated to allegory or swept under the rug

This organization is not alone in the business of teaching flawed prophetic views .... there many and all need investigation and evaluation

Bible prophecy is the Lord's grand revelation which authenticates His eternal power and presence, and must never be abused by shoddy manipulation for self gain .... all who do this will pay the price [Revelation 22:18-19]

Bible prophecy is not for those who abuse it and certainly not for amateurs who dabble in it .... this is why there is argumentation, division, and self-religious propriety in professing christianity today .... and this pathetic condition returns nothing but foolishness and negative witness to an unbelieving world
__________________

I wonder if all of those who taught the common market was the beast and the USSR was the beast and the catholic church was the beast or that the beast was a computer in central europe will have to give back all of the money they collected teaching it. Innocent curiousity only.