View Full Version : Is deception ever acceptable?
Kutless
02-16-2007, 12:43 PM
Is deception ever acceptable? Is misleading someone the same as telling a lie?
I have a family member who is a professional at doing this. Somebody will ask a question and they have this way of telling some but not all of the story. For whatever reason, usually harmless, but still not the whole truth in a way.
Sometimes I feel like they are genuinly trying to protect the other party or themselves. And sometimes I feel like this is a blatant overuse of some misguided power trip.
To cause someone to believe what is not true is still a lie. Right?
Sherri
02-16-2007, 01:04 PM
Is deception ever acceptable? Is misleading someone the same as telling a lie?
I have a family member who is a professional at doing this. Somebody will ask a question and they have this way of telling some but not all of the story. For whatever reason, usually harmless, but still not the whole truth in a way.
Sometimes I feel like they are genuinly trying to protect the other party or themselves. And sometimes I feel like this is a blatant overuse of some misguided power trip.
To cause someone to believe what is not true is still a lie. Right?
I'm not sure if it would actually be a lie, but I think it's wrong. It's something that I think we all struggle with though.
LadyChocolate
02-16-2007, 01:07 PM
Is this like telling those who call you that you are unavailable simply because you don't want to talk...but really you are available, but you just happen to run into the bathroom so your children or spouse doesn't have to lie???:heeheehee
Kutless
02-16-2007, 01:16 PM
Is this like telling those who call you that you are unavailable simply because you don't want to talk...but really you are available, but you just happen to run into the bathroom so your children or spouse doesn't have to lie???:heeheeheeLady Chocodile this is exactly what I'm talking about. Sometimes its on a little more serious scale IMO, but yes!!
Is deception ever acceptable?No.
Is misleading someone the same as telling a lie?Yes.
I have a family member who is a professional at doing this. Somebody will ask a question and they have this way of telling some but not all of the story. For whatever reason, usually harmless, but still not the whole truth in a way.Sin is never "harmless": it has eternal consequences.
Sometimes I feel like they are genuinly trying to protect the other party or themselves. And sometimes I feel like this is a blatant overuse of some misguided power trip.Motives are irrelevant. Deception is sin.
To cause someone to believe what is not true is still a lie. Right?Because you are intentionally trying to get someone to believe something you know is not true, it's still a lie.
Kutless
02-16-2007, 01:20 PM
No.
Yes.
Sin is never "harmless": it has eternal consequences.
Motives are irrelevant. Deception is sin.
Because you are intentionally trying to get someone to believe something you know is not true, it's still a lie.Chan your pretty cool........oops :killinme
LadyChocolate
02-16-2007, 01:31 PM
Lady Chocodile this is exactly what I'm talking about. Sometimes its on a little more serious scale IMO, but yes!!
sounds like you are kinda calling me a crocodile..hmph!:ranting :heeheehee
You know, One may get by with decieving but when they lay down at night, you know the truth that lies within..so really ONE of the biggest ones that are hurt are the deciever himself..
COOPER
02-16-2007, 01:32 PM
Is this like telling those who call you that you are unavailable simply because you don't want to talk...but really you are available, but you just happen to run into the bathroom so your children or spouse doesn't have to lie???:heeheehee
Thats pentecostal!!!!!!!!!!!:killinme
Is this like telling those who call you that you are unavailable simply because you don't want to talk...but really you are available, but you just happen to run into the bathroom so your children or spouse doesn't have to lie???:heeheeheeIf I don't feel like talking on the telephone, I just don't answer it.
Kutless
02-16-2007, 01:39 PM
sounds like you are kinda calling me a crocodile..hmph!:ranting :heeheehee
You know, One may get by with decieving but when they lay down at night, you know the truth that lies within..so really ONE of the biggest ones that are hurt are the deciever himself..Chocodile is a chocolate twinkie. I would think that a lady of chocolate would know that!!!!:dunno
LadyChocolate
02-16-2007, 01:40 PM
Chocodile is a chocolate twinkie. I would think that a lady of chocolate would know that!!!!:dunno
lolol...i don't like twinkies...lolol now , give me some truffles, or a triplegrandemocha from starbucks and ......mmmmm!
LadyChocolate
02-16-2007, 01:42 PM
Thats pentecostal!!!!!!!!!!!:killinme
hahahaha that's the truth!!! I have done it before, yes I admit it, but I don't feel right about it!!!! Crazy lil thing called a conscience! lol Like Chan said, I just don't answer the phone!!!
Kutless
02-16-2007, 01:50 PM
But what if it was to protect the image of someone?
Esther
02-16-2007, 01:51 PM
Thats pentecostal!!!!!!!!!!!:killinme
Oh come off it Coop. That is PEOPLE!
Don't you go to work with the same kind of people?
Esther
02-16-2007, 01:52 PM
But what if it was to protect the image of someone?
What if it is to not tell confidential information?
But what if it was to protect the image of someone?Not relevant.
OneAccord
02-16-2007, 02:03 PM
A lie by any other name is still a lie. If the intent is to mislead, decieve, manipulate, or just outright lie...it is a lie. And a sin.
Sometimes we tell just enough truth to get by (a half-truth) and, because we didn't tell a bald face lie, we think we are okay. But God judges and knows the intent of our heart. If it is our intent to mislead, then we are held accountable for the sin of lying. A "half-truth" is a "half-lie" come to think of it.
Now... just what is a "bald face Lie", anyway?
Kutless
02-16-2007, 02:08 PM
A lie by any other name is still a lie. If the intent is to mislead, decieve, manipulate, or just outright lie...it is a lie. And a sin.
Sometimes we tell just enough truth to get by (a half-truth) and, because we didn't tell a bald face lie, we think we are okay. But God judges and knows the intent of our heart. If it is our intent to mislead, then we are held accountable for the sin of lying. A "half-truth" is a "half-lie" come to think of it.
Now... just what is a "bald face Lie", anyway?I thought it was a BOLD face lie
LadyChocolate
02-16-2007, 02:10 PM
But what if it was to protect the image of someone?
explain...I'm not fully understanding ya here. I've kept silent about some things about people because I truely love them and would not destroy their image...even when I felt like I should say something....I don't like to destroy another person's image...if the conversation came about, I would have to bow out gracefully before I would have to either say something misleading or destroy a person's image....But this can vary sooooooooooooooooooo many different ways......
What if it is to not tell confidential information?now that depends on the people involved...not every situation is the same, but never should their be a time to be dishonest or only halfway truthful...........
OneAccord
02-16-2007, 02:13 PM
I thought it was a BOLD face lie
Its probably suppose to be BOLD FACE LIE. But here in the south we saw Bald Face Lie. Must be a southern thing.
ManOfWord
02-16-2007, 02:14 PM
What if it is to not tell confidential information?
If someone asks me a question about if I know something and I do, I'll tell them that I really can't go into details. If they then say they don't want the details, I tell them I really can't share any information about it.
People don't disrespect you for that, their respect for you increases. And if they ever need someone to talk to, they know who will keep a secret. It happens to me all the time.
I have had numerous people report to me in different job situations, and someone will always want you to lie for them. I simply tell them this: "You really don't want me to lie for you. Because if I would lie FOR you, I would lie TO you and you want to be able to trust me."
Let your yea be yea and your nay be nay. (isn't that in the bible?)
LadyChocolate
02-16-2007, 02:15 PM
If someone asks me a question about if I know something and I do, I'll tell them that I really can't go into details. If they then say they don't want the details, I tell them I really can't share any information about it.
People don't disrespect you for that, their respect for you increases. And if they ever need someone to talk to, they know who will keep a secret. It happens to me all the time.
I have had numerous people report to me in different job situations, and someone will always want you to lie for them. I simply tell then this: "You really don't want me to lie for you. Because if I would lie FOR you, I would lie TO you and you want to be able to trust me."
Let your yea be yea and your nay be nay. (isn't that in the bible?)
Yea ...........it is!:heeheehee
Cotton Mather
02-16-2007, 02:37 PM
What about when God told the Israelities to "borrow" gold, jewelry and other things before the exodus? Was that deception the same as lying? Or when Abram claimed Sarai was his sister? It was true, but it was a deceptive truth. Or when Jesus wouldn't repond to the claim that He was the Son of God?
I think we need to define what constitutes deception and lying here.
Fact is, some truths don't need to be spoken. That is not deception - it's wisdom.
ManOfWord
02-16-2007, 02:38 PM
What about when God told the Israelities to "borrow" gold, jewelry and other things before the exodus? Was that deception the same as lying? Or when Abram claimed Sarai was his sister? It was true, but it was a deceptive truth. Or when Jesus wouldn't repond to the claim that He was the Son of God?
I think we need to define what constitutes deception and lying here.
Fact is, some truths don't need to be spoken. That is not deception - it's wisdom.
Good point!!! :D
Kutless
02-16-2007, 02:43 PM
What about when God told the Israelities to "borrow" gold, jewelry and other things before the exodus? Was that deception the same as lying? Or when Abram claimed Sarai was his sister? It was true, but it was a deceptive truth. Or when Jesus wouldn't repond to the claim that He was the Son of God?
I think we need to define what constitutes deception and lying here.
Fact is, some truths don't need to be spoken. That is not deception - it's wisdom.Great points Mr Cotton. But I'm pretty sure God has the authority to do what he wants.
Intetionally speaking things to mislead someone is what I'm wondering about. Some truths don't need to be spoken, I would agree. Then do just that, don't "spoke 'em" If you speak to mislead, IMHO its lying.
Cotton Mather
02-16-2007, 02:43 PM
Other examples:
Rahab telling the soldiers the spies weren't in her house. They were actually in her attic. Just enough truth to muster a passing grade.
Aaron making the golden calf and claiming it originally was meant as a symbol of Jehovah.
Joseph blaming Benjamin for the loss of the cup, when in fact he had set up his own brother. Reconciliation took place, as well as real repentance from his brother, because of his "deception".
OneAccord
02-16-2007, 03:33 PM
... then there is Annanias and Sapphira. They told a half truth by saying they sold their property for so much but actually had kept back part of the proceeds. God equated their half truth with an outright lie. And we know ALL liars have their part...even those who tell half lies and little white lies. Again...if the INTENT is to decieve..then its a lie.
What about when God told the Israelities to "borrow" gold, jewelry and other things before the exodus? Was that deception the same as lying? Or when Abram claimed Sarai was his sister? It was true, but it was a deceptive truth. Or when Jesus wouldn't repond to the claim that He was the Son of God?
I think we need to define what constitutes deception and lying here.
Fact is, some truths don't need to be spoken. That is not deception - it's wisdom.
Well, you better go ahead...that is a great post!!:highfive
Nahum
02-16-2007, 03:45 PM
... then there is Annanias and Sapphira. They told a half truth by saying they sold their property for so much but actually had kept back part of the proceeds. God equated their half truth with an outright lie. And we know ALL liars have their part...even those who tell half lies and little white lies. Again...if the INTENT is to decieve..then its a lie.
Deceive, or mislead?
There was obvious intent to mislead in every situation Cotton Mather mentioned.
HeavenlyOne
02-16-2007, 03:48 PM
No.
Yes.
Sin is never "harmless": it has eternal consequences.
Motives are irrelevant. Deception is sin.
Because you are intentionally trying to get someone to believe something you know is not true, it's still a lie.
Shame on God for not punishing Abraham when he said that Sarah was his sister!
HeavenlyOne
02-16-2007, 03:56 PM
A lie by any other name is still a lie. If the intent is to mislead, decieve, manipulate, or just outright lie...it is a lie. And a sin.
Sometimes we tell just enough truth to get by (a half-truth) and, because we didn't tell a bald face lie, we think we are okay. But God judges and knows the intent of our heart. If it is our intent to mislead, then we are held accountable for the sin of lying. A "half-truth" is a "half-lie" come to think of it.
Now... just what is a "bald face Lie", anyway?
Uhh.....it's actually 'bold-faced lie'. I have no idea what a 'bald-faced lie' is, nor have I ever heard of such.
As for misleading and deceiving, what if it's not malicious? For instance, you are planning a surprise birthday party for your mother and she suspects you are up to something. She asks you if you are planning a party for her.
What do you say???
Apostolic Kitty
02-16-2007, 10:30 PM
Is this like telling those who call you that you are unavailable simply because you don't want to talk...but really you are available, but you just happen to run into the bathroom so your children or spouse doesn't have to lie???:heeheehee
Availability is subjective. If a friend calls who I want to talk to I am available. If it's someone I don't want to talk to, then I am not because I choose not to be available.
Apostolic Kitty
02-16-2007, 10:36 PM
Uhh.....it's actually 'bold-faced lie'. I have no idea what a 'bald-faced lie' is, nor have I ever heard of such.
As for misleading and deceiving, what if it's not malicious? For instance, you are planning a surprise birthday party for your mother and she suspects you are up to something. She asks you if you are planning a party for her.
What do you say???
Haha... We did a surprise party for my mom's 50th and I lied like a dog to her face about everything... It was great to see how surprised she really was when she walked in that night!
:bliss
HeavenlyOne
02-16-2007, 11:00 PM
Haha... We did a surprise party for my mom's 50th and I lied like a dog to her face about everything... It was great to see how surprised she really was when she walked in that night!
:bliss
Confession is good for the soul.....or so I'm told.....LOL!
Apostolic Kitty
02-16-2007, 11:05 PM
Confession is good for the soul.....or so I'm told.....LOL!
Well, I think that was in 2004, so my sins have been long ago confessed... :tease
Shame on God for not punishing Abraham when he said that Sarah was his sister!Sarah was Abraham's sister on his father's side. Even though scripture doesn't say that God did not punish Abraham for his deception, how often have people sinned and God did not immediately punish them? Abraham wasn't as perfect and obedient as people like to think.
Praxeas
02-20-2007, 12:30 PM
Is deception ever acceptable? Is misleading someone the same as telling a lie?
I have a family member who is a professional at doing this. Somebody will ask a question and they have this way of telling some but not all of the story. For whatever reason, usually harmless, but still not the whole truth in a way.
Sometimes I feel like they are genuinly trying to protect the other party or themselves. And sometimes I feel like this is a blatant overuse of some misguided power trip.
To cause someone to believe what is not true is still a lie. Right?
Deception is about dishonestly which is what a lie is. They are all catagorically the same sin
Not revealing all the facts is not necessarily deception
Kutless
02-20-2007, 01:13 PM
Deception is about dishonestly which is what a lie is. They are all catagorically the same sin
Not revealing all the facts is not necessarily deceptionSo it all comes down to wording.
HeavenlyOne
02-20-2007, 01:24 PM
So it all comes down to wording.
And intent.
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