Visiting a UPC Church

[Patrick Harris]

Morning,
I live in Arkansas. I don’t actually attend a UPC church at this time.
I just resigned from pastoring a small group and now I’m wanting to return to a more Pentecostal Church. I’m pretty old timey Pentecostal, the group I had pastored was not a Pentecostal group.
I’ve been invited to visit a UPC church plant by a friend. They have a great youth program, and very active men’s fellowship and the church as a whole seems to like taking trips and dinners together.
I’m truly interested since I believe it would be great for my family, however, I know doctrinally it’s significantly different then what I have been used to.
However, I have changed some of my views significantly over the last 40 + years, so anything is possible.

[Truthseeker]

Morning,
I live in Arkansas. I don’t actually attend a UPC church at this time.
I just resigned from pastoring a small group and now I’m wanting to return to a more Pentecostal Church. I’m pretty old timey Pentecostal, the group I had pastored was not a Pentecostal group.
I’ve been invited to visit a UPC church plant by a friend. They have a great youth program, and very active men’s fellowship and the church as a whole seems to like taking trips and dinners together.
I’m truly interested since I believe it would be great for my family, however, I know doctrinally it’s significantly different then what I have been used to.
However, I have changed some of my views significantly over the last 40 + years, so anything is possible.

What are the doctrinal differences?

[Patrick Harris]

What are the doctrinal differences?

The most significant would be the Trinity.

[Falla39]

The most significant would be the Trinity.

Bro. Harris,
You take water, freeze it, you got ice, boil it, you have steam. Still same water.

One God, (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) Three manifestations - still same GOD!

May God open your understanding, in Jesus Name. Let (allow, permit) HIM to
fill your mind with understanding.

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom. Also the beginning of knowlege and understanding.

Falla39

[Truthseeker]

The most significant would be the Trinity.

Yeah, thats a big one.

[canam]

What part of arkansas ?

[Sister Alvear]

I am in Arkansas at this present moment....wow...and I was raised in Arkansas....

[deltaguitar]

Morning,
I live in Arkansas. I don’t actually attend a UPC church at this time.
I just resigned from pastoring a small group and now I’m wanting to return to a more Pentecostal Church. I’m pretty old timey Pentecostal, the group I had pastored was not a Pentecostal group.
I’ve been invited to visit a UPC church plant by a friend. They have a great youth program, and very active men’s fellowship and the church as a whole seems to like taking trips and dinners together.
I’m truly interested since I believe it would be great for my family, however, I know doctrinally it’s significantly different then what I have been used to.
However, I have changed some of my views significantly over the last 40 + years, so anything is possible.

Does doctrine matter to you at all or are you just wanting an experience?

I would recommend staying away from anything pentecostal but I am a former pentecostal so take whatever I say with a grain of salt.

However, there are very nice people in the movement.
I am also from Arkansas.

[aegsm76]

My mom was born in Arkansas!
I know some good churches there, but none that are Trinity.

[faithit166]

Morning,
I live in Arkansas. I don’t actually attend a UPC church at this time.
I just resigned from pastoring a small group and now I’m wanting to return to a more Pentecostal Church. I’m pretty old timey Pentecostal, the group I had pastored was not a Pentecostal group.
I’ve been invited to visit a UPC church plant by a friend. They have a great youth program, and very active men’s fellowship and the church as a whole seems to like taking trips and dinners together.
I’m truly interested since I believe it would be great for my family, however, I know doctrinally it’s significantly different then what I have been used to.
However, I have changed some of my views significantly over the last 40 + years, so anything is possible.

doesnt hurt to go visit,

[Patrick Harris]

What part of arkansas ?

Northwest Arkansas.

[Patrick Harris]

Bro. Harris,
You take water, freeze it, you got ice, boil it, you have steam. Still same water.

One God, (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) Three manifestations - still same GOD!

May God open your understanding, in Jesus Name. Let (allow, permit) HIM to
fill your mind with understanding.

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom. Also the beginning of knowlege and understanding.

Falla39

That's the way I have always looked at God, pretty much. Maybe I'm not as far apart as I thought .

[Falla39]

That's the way I have always looked at God, pretty much. Maybe I'm not as far apart as I thought .

Bro. Harris,
When I read your post, those words came to my mind. I believe the Holy Ghost
allowed me to say them as a simple example. Bless you, Brother Harris.

Falla39

[pelathais]

Bro. Harris,
You take water, freeze it, you got ice, boil it, you have steam. Still same water.

One God, (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) Three manifestations - still same GOD!

May God open your understanding, in Jesus Name. Let (allow, permit) HIM to
fill your mind with understanding.

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom. Also the beginning of knowlege and understanding.

Falla39

That's the way I have always looked at God, pretty much. Maybe I'm not as far apart as I thought .

That's a great analogy, however, don't forget that God is simultaneously "steam," "water" and "ice." That's something water can't do.

This also leads many to see a complexity within the nature of God that is not often summed up satisfactorily in many of the different creeds, belief statements and Articles of Faith.

[NorCal]

That's a great analogy, however, don't forget that God is simultaneously "steam," "water" and "ice." That's something water can't do.

This also leads many to see a complexity within the nature of God that is not often summed up satisfactorily in many of the different creeds, belief statements and Articles of Faith.

Ha, I have see int so cold in the mountains that there is Ice, floating on water, steaming!

[hometown guy]

My mom was born in Arkansas!
I know some good churches there, but none that are Trinity.

I don't know any good trinity churches either... Everyone one that I know of teach false doctrine 

[hometown guy]

Ha, I have see int so cold in the mountains that there is Ice, floating on water, steaming!

Good point 

[Falla39]

Have you ever seen a picture of God. Jesus was the best picture of God, ever seen. GOD was IN Christ. HE is IN us too if we have His Spirit dwelling (abiding,living) IN us.
You cannot see a spirit. No wonder GOD looks/sees inside. HE IS inside. No, Nicodemas, a man cannot get back inside his mother's womb after he has been born. Jesus, as man, could not get into everyone, but the Spirit inside him could. The baptism of water and Spirit are duel elements. They work together.
Not knowing just how much Bro. Patrick Harris understood, the water, ice and steam example came to me. Perhaps if he can understand this too. God (Spirit) in man (humanity). I fed my babies milk before I fed them meat!

Blessings,

Falla39

[Patrick Harris]

So we visited Sunday, I really liked it. The worship service was great and the preacher had a great message. It reminded me of some great COG services I had been in many years back.

Here's another reason that drew me in, these people are really a church family, they go on trips together, eat together, a lot of fellowship together outside of church.

Patrick

[Amanah]

So we visited Sunday, I really liked it. The worship service was great and the preacher had a great message. It reminded me of some great COG services I had been in many years back.

Here's another reason that drew me in, these people are really a church family, they go on trips together, eat together, a lot of fellowship together outside of church.

Patrick

that is great that you enjoyed your visit, I hope you have found a church family, that is a precious thing.

[TGBTG]

That's a great analogy, however, don't forget that God is simultaneously "steam," "water" and "ice." That's something water can't do.

This also leads many to see a complexity within the nature of God that is not often summed up satisfactorily in many of the different creeds, belief statements and Articles of Faith.

Actually, water can exist both as ice, liquid water, and steam simultaneously. This is called the TRIPLE POINT of water...

http://www.sv.vt.edu/classes/MSE2094_NoteBook/96ClassProj/examples/triplpt.html

[CC1]

So we visited Sunday, I really liked it. The worship service was great and the preacher had a great message. It reminded me of some great COG services I had been in many years back.

Here's another reason that drew me in, these people are really a church family, they go on trips together, eat together, a lot of fellowship together outside of church.

Patrick

Because of the "seperation" standards the UPC is a very closed culture and being such they do tend to have a lot of social activities together.

Been there, done that, got the T Shirt, and can't imagine going back. However if it floats your boat to have an extra biblical laundry list of rules enforced from the pulpit running your life go for it!

[Falla39]

Because of the "seperation" standards the UPC is a very closed culture and being such they do tend to have a lot of social activities together.

Been there, done that, got the T Shirt, and can't imagine going back. However if it floats your boat to have an extra biblical laundry list of rules enforced from the pulpit running your life go for it!

CC1,

Perhaps Patrick Harris' perception of the church is not the same as yours. Why not wait and see how your grandchildren and great-grandchildren turn out after a generation or so of negative thoughts and comments about the UPC.

I know for a fact that many who have done the same thing, have reaped a sad harvest after listening to their parents negative comments and thoughts about their upbringing and the church they were raised in. Many of their own parents
are not living for God today. How will this affect future generations.

Our parents raised us up in the fear and admonition of the LORD. The UPC was not around when I was born. My late father, who was also our pastor for over 30 yrs, was licensed with the UPC. He told me, "While the UPC is not perfect,
it is the best I have seen, and I looked for a long time. Dad believed in weighing everything in the light of the Word of GOD! Not in an organization.

So I grew up not looking to an organization to be my guide, but to look to the Word of God as an Instruction book and the HOLY GHOST to be MY GUIDE! The UPC was an organization that was a good means of fellowship, etc.

I mean no offense, CC1, but I see a great danger in the critical spirit too many have today. They criticize too many things before their children, grandchildren, etc. Those who follow after us learn to criticize from those who have a Critical spirit. Too many today have critized and made fun of the way they were raised, in the home and in the church! I do not feel GOD is pleased! Can't help but wonder what pattern they are following and their precious children will follow.
Many times the critical spirit some have, is far worse than the very thing they are criticizing. I pray this will be received in the same spirit it is given!

Falla39

[Patrick Harris]

Having read some post on here, specifically those like Steve Epley, I wonder if I really saw a truly UPC church. I didn't realize how much animosity there was toward people who believed in the trinity.

Patrick

[scotty]

Having read some post on here, specifically those like Steve Epley, I wonder if I really saw a truly UPC church. I didn't realize how much animosity there was toward people who believed in the trinity.

Patrick

Your posting on an "I hate UPC" sounding board forum. You'll get used to it, maybe.

But your correct in your thinking. Just with any org there are some great churches and some not so great ones. But try to tell anyone here that your UPC church is a good one and you better have on more than the armour of God.

[Truthseeker]

Your posting on an "I hate UPC" sounding board forum. You'll get used to it, maybe.

But your correct in your thinking. Just with any org there are some great churches and some not so great ones. But try to tell anyone here that your UPC church is a good one and you better have on more than the armour of God.

Yep, some are bitter.

[Falla39]

Having read some post on here, specifically those like Steve Epley, I wonder if I really saw a truly UPC church. I didn't realize how much animosity there was toward people who believed in the trinity.
Patrick

Patrick,

By the same token, I could say the same thing about many that believe in the trinity. After over fifty years of seeing the animosity toward those who believe that "all the fulness of the Godhead is in Jesus" and those who baptize inJesus Name. I have had many friends, neighbors and acquaintances who would call me for prayer. They wanted me to pray and some even wanted to tell me WHAT to pray. But when it came to obedience to the Word of God pertaining to salvation, they wanted no part of it. They would pray for healing, and other things they desired, but when it came to baptism in the name of Jesus, they wanted no part of it. There is much more I could say but won't.

My late father planted a vineyard in the city we still live in. We have lived here since Sept 30th, 1950. We didn't come to our city as UPC. We came as apostolic (or Jesus Name) Pentecostals. We had previously attended a small town church that came into being, after my paternal and my maternal grandmothers, my mother and father, received the Holy Ghost in the early 1930's. JESUS had passed by, visiting that tiny town. HE came in the form of an old white-haired street preacher who came preaching on the street corner. Afterwards began an open-air revival behind the stores and later began a church plant. Jerusalem didn't know the day of their visitation, but thank God a few people in Savoy, Tx, heard, believed and obeyed the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. Thank God through them, He came to me.

We have been in our city 61 yrs ago tomorrow, Sept. 30, 2011. I believe every town, hamlet, village and city will be visited by someone that was willing to carry HIM inside their vessel and tell the GOOD NEWS that HE IS ALIVE and WELL TODAY. HE dwells in the hearts of those who desire HIM to live there. No, God didn't allow His Son to be born in big proud Jerusalem, but HE did allow him to be born in a lowly stable in the tiny, humble town ofBethlehem. Although, in reality HE was their King, they didn't recognize Him because of the way He came to earth. A tiny package, gift wrapped, lying in a manager.

When we moved to our city (which was a very small town back in 1950), we were not popular with any of the churches in our community. Every church was trinitarian. We were oneness Pentecostal. Today, Dad and Mom are no longer with us in body, but because they allowed HIM to use them to bring HIM to this city, and lived and raised a large family, all eleven of us graduating from the local high school. We have lived here long enough to shut the mouths of the naysayers of Oneness Pentecostals in ____, TX. We love all people with the LOVE OF GOD shed abroad in our hearts by the HOLY GHOST!Patrick, seek the WILL of GOD and don't get your eyes on man. LOOK to JESUS, THE AUTHOR and THE FINISHER of our faith!!

Later my late father held license with the United Pentecostal Church and worked in fellowship with them. Dad felt their Foreign Missions plan to be a good one. In 1988, the church Dad founded received Recognition as #3 in worldwide per capti giving to Foreign Missions, UPC. He had become ill and was not able to attend General Conference to receive this award. His son received it in his place. The church Dad founded has never and is not in the org. per se. The present pastor is licensed with the United Pentecostal Church and we continue to work in fellowship.


Blessings,

Falla39

[livefortruth]

Having read some post on here, specifically those like Steve Epley, I wonder if I really saw a truly UPC church. I didn't realize how much animosity there was toward people who believed in the trinity.

Patrick

Yeah, if I were to summarize what was taught to me while I was in the UPC and what I preached while I ministered there it would be this:

"If you are not baptized by full immersion with "in the name of Jesus Christ for the remmission of sins" vocally uttered over you by the right authoritative minister you are going to hell.

If you never speak in tongues you are going to hell.

If you believe that Jesus is God but do not think he is his own Father or the Holy Spirit you are going to hell.

If you do all this and do not follow man-made standards you can still go to hell.

If you disagree with your pastor you could be in danger of hell-fire."

I have heard sermons on all this stuff. None of this can be legitimately supported from the scriptures. Ultimately the UPC as a whole teaches weak theology because it is unbiblical.

Because they come from the Pentecostal/Charismatic tradition the spirituality of the worship is usually the kind that you will experience in other Pentecostal and Charismatic churches. This is good until they start pounding their false doctrines from the pulpit.

I personally don't suggest the UPC for anybody. I hope this helps summarize the main beliefs of the organization.

[Falla39]

if I were to summarize what was taught to me while I was in the UPC and what I preached while I ministered there[/B] it would be this:

"If you are not baptized by full immersion with "in the name of Jesus Christ for the remmission of sins" vocally uttered over you by the right authoritative minister you are going to hell.

If you never speak in tongues you are going to hell.

If you believe that Jesus is God but do not think he is his own Father or the Holy Spirit you are going to hell.

If you do all this and do not follow man-made standards you can still go to hell.

If you disagree with your pastor you could be in danger of hell-fire."

I have heard sermons on all this stuff. None of this can be legitimately supported from the scriptures. Ultimately the UPC as a whole teaches weak theology because it is unbiblical.

Because they come from the Pentecostal/Charismatic tradition the spirituality of the worship is usually the kind that you will experience in other Pentecostal and Charismatic churches. This is good until they start pounding their false doctrines from the pulpit.

I personally don't suggest the UPC for anybody. I hope this helps summarize the main beliefs of the organization.

Livefortruth, If you are really only 20 yrs old, as your profile indicates, just
how long were you in the UPC and how long did you minister?

I can tell by many of your responses that you are not someone I would want
to follow as a mentor. Don't mean to be offensive but you do not have the
years, the experience or the wisdom to be advising others, in IMOP.

Falla39

[Jay]

I know that it has been a while since I was on this site, but I will post briefly.

My father said for many years that he was a member of the UPCI because there was nothing better. He was not thrilled with the idea of going independent, and was not thrilled with any of the other options. When he finally felt that something better had come, he left. We did not bad mouth, although we mourned.

We are still in contact with ministers who stayed, and we even have family that remained in the UPCI. It took some time. We have friends who are independent, friends in the UPCI, and friends in other organizations. We only wish for all to have the very best that God has for them.

[hometown guy]

Having read some post on here, specifically those like Steve Epley, I wonder if I really saw a truly UPC church. I didn't realize how much animosity there was toward people who believed in the trinity.

Patrick

We do not have any animosity toward people who believe in the trinity but we do have animosity/hate for the false doctrine teaching of the trinity.

[Praxeas]

Having read some post on here, specifically those like Steve Epley, I wonder if I really saw a truly UPC church. I didn't realize how much animosity there was toward people who believed in the trinity.

Patrick
Epley is NOT UPC

[Patrick Harris]

Epley is NOT UPC

Yeah, I figured that out.

I guess here's the real crux of the matter.
What I believe or don't believe about the trinity is not a hill I would die on.

I don't think that being Apostolic is heresy even though I lean toward believing in the trinity. I believe there is enough mystery about God that we don't know and that none of us may have the exact truth.

To me there are some foundational truths and the trinity is not one of those.

Thanks
Patrick

[TGBTG]

Yeah, I figured that out.

I guess here's the real crux of the matter.
What I believe or don't believe about the trinity is not a hill I would die on.

I don't think that being Apostolic is heresy even though I lean toward believing in the trinity. I believe there is enough mystery about God that we don't know and that none of us may have the exact truth.

To me there are some foundational truths and the trinity is not one of those.

Thanks
Patrick

Well, that is not what most of the trinity churches teach. They say if you don't believe in the trinity, u're in a cult and on your way to hell, so go figure...

[scotty]

I know that it has been a while since I was on this site, but I will post briefly.

My father said for many years that he was a member of the UPCI because there was nothing better. He was not thrilled with the idea of going independent, and was not thrilled with any of the other options. When he finally felt that something better had come, he left. We did not bad mouth, although we mourned.

We are still in contact with ministers who stayed, and we even have family that remained in the UPCI. It took some time. We have friends who are independent, friends in the UPCI, and friends in other organizations. We only wish for all to have the very best that God has for them.

POD !!!! :thumbsup

[Patrick Harris]

Well, that is not what most of the trinity churches teach. They say if you don't believe in the trinity, u're in a cult and on your way to hell, so go figure...

That is not my belief.

Which is probably why I never seem to fit in any denominational mold. The lady that invited me to the church was born and raised Apostolic, yet we have never had any serious disagreements over who is right.
Also, I’m dyed in the wool Pentecostal, but up until August, I pastored a Baptist church The people who asked me to take the position knew up-front that I was Pentecostal.

[RandyWayne]

I know that it has been a while since I was on this site, but I will post briefly.

My father said for many years that he was a member of the UPCI because there was nothing better. He was not thrilled with the idea of going independent, and was not thrilled with any of the other options. When he finally felt that something better had come, he left. We did not bad mouth, although we mourned.

We are still in contact with ministers who stayed, and we even have family that remained in the UPCI. It took some time. We have friends who are independent, friends in the UPCI, and friends in other organizations. We only wish for all to have the very best that God has for them.

When we left the org in the late 80's a few people left at the same time and quite a few friends (who stayed friends) remained with the church -at least for a while. Virtually all of them have left over the years. What irked me about the whole thing (then) were the large number of folks who were just brutal to the pastor on a personal level (and everyone else for that matter) who suddenly became "good UPC OP saints!" the day after we left and became the ones who would cross the street if they saw you coming in order to not have to expose themselves to a back sliding spirit -and make sure everyone saw them doing it! Now I look back and laugh, actually I was laughing then as well.
To make a long story short, we have friends all over the map as well and they are still friends. Unlike a few posters here, I do not know anyone personally who has condemned us to the fiery pit for not believing their distinct version of oneness. :)

[livefortruth]

Livefortruth, If you are really only 20 yrs old, as your profile indicates, just
how long were you in the UPC and how long did you minister?

I can tell by many of your responses that you are not someone I would want
to follow as a mentor. Don't mean to be offensive but you do not have the
years, the experience or the wisdom to be advising others, in IMOP.

Falla39

I was in UPC church for about 5 years. I read every book in the bible atleast three times and some of them 10 times my first year and the people in my church could tell because I was (still am) always speaking about the scriptures and praying non-stop. I also converted many people from the "other churches" to our congregation which they considered to be "spiritual fruit." I read all the material required for licensed ministry and became involved in publicly and privately debating for UPC doctrine with much fervency. Because of this they began giving me leadership responsibilities that included Sunday School teaching, preaching, meeting with people, leading songs, etc. I'm so glad the Lord brought me out of that movement early and that I didn't spend too much time believing the things that I was taught.

You can have your opinions based on your minimal amount of internet interaction with me but I assure you that you should actually get to know someone before making a personal judgement. Plus I think you might be biased. I doubt that you would receive advice or teaching from anybody who didn't believe you had to speak in tongues to be saved. Not to mention that if they don't believe Jesus is his own Father you couldn't really open up and let them teach you the Bible either. I'm just guessing though and don't want to assume (as you have) because we don't personally know each other ;)

[scotty]

I was in UPC church for about 5 years. I read every book in the bible atleast three times and some of them 10 times my first year and the people in my church could tell because I was (still am) always speaking about the scriptures and praying non-stop. I also converted many people from the "other churches" to our congregation which they considered to be "spiritual fruit." I read all the material required for licensed ministry and became involved in publicly and privately debating for UPC doctrine with much fervency. Because of this they began giving me leadership responsibilities that included Sunday School teaching, preaching, meeting with people, leading songs, etc. I'm so glad the Lord brought me out of that movement early and that I didn't spend too much time believing the things that I was taught.

You can have your opinions based on your minimal amount of internet interaction with me but I assure you that you should actually get to know someone before making a personal judgement. Plus I think you might be biased. I doubt that you would receive advice or teaching from anybody who didn't believe you had to speak in tongues to be saved. Not to mention that if they don't believe Jesus is his own Father you couldn't really open up and let them teach you the Bible either. I'm just guessing though and don't want to assume (as you have) because we don't personally know each other ;)

She didn't make a personal judgement. She asked you a question and stated her opinion based on information you have provided. Clarify your information for her or move on. But don't accuse her of being judgemental or you have already assumed as you claim she has.

As little as she knows of you I can promise you know even less of her for judgemental Sis Falla is not.

[livefortruth]

She didn't make a personal judgement. She asked you a question and stated her opinion based on information you have provided. Clarify your information for her or move on. But don't accuse her of being judgemental or you have already assumed as you claim she has.

As little as she knows of you I can promise you know even less of her for judgemental Sis Falla is not.

Do you even know what comment of her's I was addressing?:ouch

[Sabby]

Morning,
I live in Arkansas. I don’t actually attend a UPC church at this time.
I just resigned from pastoring a small group and now I’m wanting to return to a more Pentecostal Church. I’m pretty old timey Pentecostal, the group I had pastored was not a Pentecostal group.
I’ve been invited to visit a UPC church plant by a friend. They have a great youth program, and very active men’s fellowship and the church as a whole seems to like taking trips and dinners together.
I’m truly interested since I believe it would be great for my family, however, I know doctrinally it’s significantly different then what I have been used to.
However, I have changed some of my views significantly over the last 40 + years, so anything is possible.

Patrick,
God bless you for being willing to walk a day at a time. I appreciate your small - group experience. You are blessed in that they were baptists and not ex-upcers.
More power to you if you have found a church home, but buyer beware! Remember that every UPC pastor has to sign an affirmation statement regarding holiness standards for his church, which boxes their theology in somewhat. My experience has been that those that harp on the standards (outer appearance) lack the humility and grace required in the ministry of a pastor, not to mention that this exhibits an need to control.
Is the pastor a ruler, or is he a guide? Does he let you privately (especially if you are his age or older) call him by his first name? Sometimes that's a real indicator of whether the pastor feels his position is SUPERIOR to your own.

One thing you need to keep in mind through all this is there are some good churches as well as not so good churches.

[Falla39]

I was in UPC church for about 5 years. I read every book in the bible atleast three times and some of them 10 times my first year and the people in my church could tell because I was (still am) always speaking about the scriptures and praying non-stop. I also converted many people from the "other churches" to our congregation which they considered to be "spiritual fruit." I read all the material required for licensed ministry and became involved in publicly and privately debating for UPC doctrine with much fervency. Because of this they began giving me leadership responsibilities that included Sunday School teaching, preaching, meeting with people, leading songs, etc. I'm so glad the Lord brought me out of that movement early and that I didn't spend too much time believing the things that I was taught.

You can have your opinions based on your minimal amount of internet interaction with me but I assure you that you should actually get to know someone before making a personal judgement. Plus I think you might be biased. I doubt that you would receive advice or teaching from anybody who didn't believe you had to speak in tongues to be saved. Not to mention that if they don't believe Jesus is his own Father you couldn't really open up and let them teach you the Bible either. I'm just guessing though and don't want to assume (as you have) because we don't personally know each other ;)

About five year old in anything does not an expert make! And to put that kind of responsiblity on a "five year old convert " doesn't make a lot of sense.
I do not say it boastfully, but after many years of experience and with what wisdom the LORD has given me: My advice would be to get on your knees and "humble yourself under the Mighty Hand of GOD. Allow HIM to do the promoting. Promotion does not come from any direction, but comes from the LORD". I pray you will do just as I have advised you, for in doing so, GOD is able to make a great man of GOD of you. If you will get over yourself and surrender wholly to GOD, in the process of time, you will understand what I
am speaking about today. And you will know that it was GOD that "made" you and not you yourself.

May GOD help you as you begin again, in Jesus Name!

Falla39

[Arphaxad]

Bro. Harris,
You take water, freeze it, you got ice, boil it, you have steam. Still same water.

One God, (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) Three manifestations - still same GOD!

May God open your understanding, in Jesus Name. Let (allow, permit) HIM to
fill your mind with understanding.

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom. Also the beginning of knowlege and understanding.

Falla39

A friend of mine learned of the water example of God in Catholic school.

:doggyrun

[livefortruth]

About five year old in anything does not an expert make! And to put that kind of responsiblity on a "five year old convert " doesn't make a lot of sense.
I do not say it boastfully, but after many years of experience and with what wisdom the LORD has given me: My advice would be to get on your knees and "humble yourself under the Mighty Hand of GOD. Allow HIM to do the promoting. Promotion does not come from any direction, but comes from the LORD". I pray you will do just as I have advised you, for in doing so, GOD is able to make a great man of GOD of you. If you will get over yourself and surrender wholly to GOD, in the process of time, you will understand what I
am speaking about today. And you will know that it was GOD that "made" you and not you yourself.

May GOD help you as you begin again, in Jesus Name!

Falla39

Your barking up the wrong tree. I have repented of the false doctrine the UPC preaches. In fact I have spent much time in sorrow and regret that I ever taught anyone that false doctrine and led them away from Christ. I'm sorry for you. I'm glad I was brought out of it so quickly.

[Patrick Harris]

As an update:
About 2 months ago we started again attending the UPC church plant I mentioned.

We went because of the way they choose to do things together as a church. The fellowship there is truly a breath of fresh air.

In addition, I was longing for a chance to be part of a Pentecostal fellowship again and we have definitely found a home there.

I had some rather frank discussions with the pastor and he said that while he was Apostolic in faith, he knew that some believed otherwise.

He said I will never question your faith and salvation because of what you believe. He went on to say that the things that we agree on were far greater than the things we had that differed, and that he would be more than happy to have us as part of the church.

My wife and I really love it there and look forward to every service.

The AG church here is little more than a hyper Baptist church. We just wanted a place where people were prayed for, healed, and the gifts were more openly practiced. I know that my spiritual life has definitely increased since attending there.

[n david]

As an update:
About 2 months ago we started again attending the UPC church plant I mentioned.

We went because of the way they choose to do things together as a church. The fellowship there is truly a breath of fresh air.

In addition, I was longing for a chance to be part of a Pentecostal fellowship again and we have definitely found a home there.

I had some rather frank discussions with the pastor and he said that while he was Apostolic in faith, he knew that some believed otherwise.

He said I will never question your faith and salvation because of what you believe. He went on to say that the things that we agree on were far greater than the things we had that differed, and that he would be more than happy to have us as part of the church.

My wife and I really love it there and look forward to every service.

The AG church here is little more than a hyper Baptist church. We just wanted a place where people were prayed for, healed, and the gifts were more openly practiced. I know that my spiritual life has definitely increased since attending there.
:thumbsup

[navygoat1998]

As an update:
About 2 months ago we started again attending the UPC church plant I mentioned.

We went because of the way they choose to do things together as a church. The fellowship there is truly a breath of fresh air.

In addition, I was longing for a chance to be part of a Pentecostal fellowship again and we have definitely found a home there.

I had some rather frank discussions with the pastor and he said that while he was Apostolic in faith, he knew that some believed otherwise.

He said I will never question your faith and salvation because of what you believe. He went on to say that the things that we agree on were far greater than the things we had that differed, and that he would be more than happy to have us as part of the church.

My wife and I really love it there and look forward to every service.

The AG church here is little more than a hyper Baptist church. We just wanted a place where people were prayed for, healed, and the gifts were more openly practiced. I know that my spiritual life has definitely increased since attending there.

Patrick, I am blessed because our AG church is as Pentecostal as any UPC church I have ever been. The Church of God is where I got the Holy Ghost and my church reminds me of the old Church of God services.

[navygoat1998]

As an update:
About 2 months ago we started again attending the UPC church plant I mentioned.

We went because of the way they choose to do things together as a church. The fellowship there is truly a breath of fresh air.

In addition, I was longing for a chance to be part of a Pentecostal fellowship again and we have definitely found a home there.

I had some rather frank discussions with the pastor and he said that while he was Apostolic in faith, he knew that some believed otherwise.

He said I will never question your faith and salvation because of what you believe. He went on to say that the things that we agree on were far greater than the things we had that differed, and that he would be more than happy to have us as part of the church.

My wife and I really love it there and look forward to every service.

The AG church here is little more than a hyper Baptist church. We just wanted a place where people were prayed for, healed, and the gifts were more openly practiced. I know that my spiritual life has definitely increased since attending there.

Sounds like a fair man.

[Patrick Harris]

Patrick, I am blessed because our AG church is as Pentecostal as any UPC church I have ever been. The Church of God is where I got the Holy Ghost and my church reminds me of the old Church of God services.

Wow. The Church of God is where I received the Holy Ghost as well, and this church reminds me so much of the old Church of God, which is exactly what I told some COG folks.

I'm glad the AG church where you attend is that way, it's not the way in every church anymore.

[navygoat1998]

Wow. The Church of God is where I received the Holy Ghost as well, and this church reminds me so much of the old Church of God, which is exactly what I told some COG folks.

I'm glad the AG church where you attend is that way, it's not the way in every church anymore.

I won't be part if it is not Pentecostal, blessing on you and your family. I firmly believe that God has a home for each of us we all need a home that we can be part off.

When we left UPC and went to AG, we told them our background and they did not question our Godhead view, Baptism, Holy Ghost or Salvation.

I got the Holy Ghost in 1979 in the Church of God in Labelle, Florida I was still High School.

[odooley6985]

Good luck brother. Just remember the only name that is on the Church is Jesus name.