Jerry Falwell

[rgcraig]

Report: Jerry Falwell taken to hospital after being found unconscious

LYNCHBURG, Va. (AP) - A Liberty University executive says the Reverend Jerry Falwell has been taken to the hospital after he was found unconscious in his office.

The executive vice president of the school tells The News and Advance of Lynchburg that Falwell was found unconscious after missing an appointment this morning.

The newspaper says Falwell arrived at Lynchburg General Hospital around noon.

[SDG]

Horrible news.

[Digging4Truth]

-- Televangelist Jerry Falwell is being given CPR after being found unconcious and taken to a Virginia hospital, Falwell assistant Ron Godwin say

[LaGirl]

-- Televangelist Jerry Falwell is being given CPR after being found unconcious and taken to a Virginia hospital, Falwell assistant Ron Godwin say

you must get the cnn email.......:icecream

[Margies3]

If he doesn't make it, who would his successor be?

[Digging4Truth]

you must get the cnn email.......:icecream

Yep... CNN Breaking News :)

[SDG]

He has died.

[rgcraig]

He has died.

WOW!

[MrsMcD]

This is sad news.

[PoorWiddleMe]

Was he ready to meet his Lord? That's the question.

[rgcraig]

Moral Majority leader Falwell dies
Evangelical leader was found in his university office
BREAKING NEWS
MSNBC staff and news service reports
Updated: 12:37 p.m. CT May 15, 2007
LYNCHBURG, Va. - The Rev. Jerry Falwell — founder of the Moral Majority and the face of the religious right in the 1980s — died Tuesday after being found unconscious in his office, a Liberty University executive said.

Ron Godwin, Liberty's executive vice president, said Falwell, 73, had been found unresponsive around 10:45 a.m. and was taken to Lynchburg General Hospital.

Godwin said he was not sure what caused the collapse, but noted that Falwell had “a history of heart challenges.”

“I had breakfast with him, and he was fine at breakfast,” Godwin said. “He went to his office, I went to mine and they found him unresponsive.”

Falwell, a television evangelist who founded the Moral Majority in 1979, became the face of the religious right in the 1980s. He later founded the conservative Liberty University and served as its chancellor.

In the 1980s, Falwell saw his political lobbying organization grow to 6.5 million members, raising millions of dollars for conservative politicians and helping to elect Ronald Reagan president.

A biography of Falwell on Liberty University's Web site states that "with the impetus of the newly organized Moral Majority, millions of people of faith voted for the first time in 1980 and helped elect Ronald Reagan and many conservative congressmen and senators."

Falwell survived two serious health scares in early 2005. He was hospitalized in February for two weeks with what was described as a viral infection, then hospitalized again in March with congestive heart failure after being found unconscious. At that time he had to be resuscitated by EMTs at the hospital emergency room.

A native of Lynchburg, Falwell and his wife, Macel, have three children and eight grandchildren.

His Jerry Falwell ministries take in about $200 million a year in revenues, according to Liberty University's Web site.

Liberty University's commencement is scheduled for Saturday, with former U.S. House Speaker Newt Gingrich as the featured speaker.

This report will be updated as information becomes available.

© 2007 MSNBC InteractiveThe Associated Press contributed to this report.

[rgcraig]

Steadfast!!!!

Take care of yourself!!!!!

[MrsMcD]

Was he ready to meet his Lord? That's the question.

That's a question only the Lord can answer!

[PoorWiddleMe]

That's a question only the Lord can answer!

Exactly....Only the Lord knows for sure.

[SDG]

That's a question only the Lord can answer!

Exactly....Only the Lord knows for sure.

Give it some time and ... before you know it ... some compassionate UC will be casting him into the pits of hell.

[Theresa]

he died

[Ferd]

Give it some time and ... before you know it ... some compassionate UC will be casting him in the pits of hell.

I was just talking to a liberal democrat very committed methodist christian who didnt exactly cast him into the pit, but clearly seemed to be hoping in that direction.... had nothing to do with doctrine though.

[SDG]

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/US/05/15/jerry.falwell.ap/newt1.falwell.gi.jpg

[OGIA]

Is claiming he's with the Lord more compassionate?

[Ferd]

Is claiming he's with the Lord more compassionate?

well, it wont change Fallwells final resting place but it might avoid a fight here, and if told to his family it might spare them some undo pain and suffering.....plus it might keep that bridge from being burned to ashes.


but hey, if you feel that compassion requires you to get your sword out and hack up a dead body, go for it. just remember that everyone is standing around taking note of who is hacking up dead bodies.

[SDG]

Is claiming he's with the Lord more compassionate?

Who has said as much yet ... but playing God certainly would not be.

[Elizabeth]

LINK (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8P4V3T00&show_article=1) from the drudge report.

I wonder if the thought even crossed his mind that this could be the last day of his life, when he woke up this morning.

[Malvaro]

LINK (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8P4V3T00&show_article=1) from the drudge report.

I wonder if the thought even crossed his mind that this could be the last day of his life, when he woke up this morning.

it almost makes a person ponder what they'd like their tombstone to say.....

[Sister Alvear]

very sad for his family and his ministries...

[NLYP]

This is indeed sad news...he was a great man and solid Christian leader

[SoCaliUPC]

I will just say, my thoughts are with the family during this time.

[Praxeas]

This is indeed sad news...he was a great man and solid Christian leader
Are you guys all serious? Yeah I think it is sad, but I think it is sad when anyone dies, but do you all really think this was a great Christian leader?

[Hoovie]

Are you guys all serious? Yeah I think it is sad, but I think it is sad when anyone dies, but do you all really think this was a great Christian leader?

Yes, I do.

[SDG]

Yes he stuck his foot in his mouth on a few occassions ... but his work for the Christian community is stellar ... and responsible for founding one the leading Evangelical universities in the nation.

He was a principled voice in a wilderness.

[SoCaliUPC]

Are you guys all serious? Yeah I think it is sad, but I think it is sad when anyone dies, but do you all really think this was a great Christian leader?

See...I said I wasn't going to say anything else...... :nod

[Mrpapajo]

Are you guys all serious? Yeah I think it is sad, but I think it is sad when anyone dies, but do you all really think this was a great Christian leader?

NLYP statement blew me away too. What does this guy believe anyway???????

[Praxeas]

Yes he stuck his foot in his mouth on a few occassions ... but his work for the Christian community is stellar ... and responsible for founding one the leading Evangelical universities in the nation.

He was a principled voice in a wilderness.
He did more than stuck his foot in his mouth on a "few" occasions though

[Praxeas]

NLYP statement blew me away too. What does this guy believe anyway???????
He is a baptist....
As for what he has said and done...well let's see
http://freedom_press.tripod.com/one.html

[SDG]

He did more than stuck his foot in his mouth on a "few" occasions though

Perhaps you can catalog his great offenses ... and I'll do the same for his great contributions ... and we'll put them on the scale ....

[SDG]

This is a "folly" Prax???

February 1997: Falwell sponsors a pastors’ briefing in Washington, during which he threatens to form a new political party if Republicans waver on abortion.

[Ronzo]

Perhaps you can catalog his great offenses ... and I'll do the same for his great contributions ... and we'll put them on the scale ....
And do the same thing for yourself, Prax.

[SDG]

Half of these follies are laughable.

[SDG]

Another folly?

July 1996: Falwell announces a series of "God Save America" rallies in evangelical churchesto stop the United States from entering a "post-Christian" era.

[SDG]

HOW COULD HE???

March 1993: Despite his promise to Jewish groups to stop referring to America as a "Christian nation," Falwell gives a sermon saying, "We must never allow our children to forget that this is a Christian nation. We must take back what is rightfully ours."

[Hoovie]

He is a baptist....
As for what he has said and done...well let's see
http://freedom_press.tripod.com/one.html

Sorry, after reading this I respect the man even more.

This is bad reporting - starting with "Major Lie #1."

[SDG]

*Prax carefully and awkwardly TAKES HIS FOOT OUT OF HIS MOUTH*

[Ferd]

Are you guys all serious? Yeah I think it is sad, but I think it is sad when anyone dies, but do you all really think this was a great Christian leader?

As much as he may have been a real mover in the political "chirstian majority", Fallwell did a lot to dammage the roll of christianity in American politics. He was a great lightening rod. I cannot say he was a great leader.


I am sorry for his family and friends.

[berkeley]

Now you can be a great Christian without the Holy Ghost and baptism in Jesus' name?? ahh.. forgot where I was posting...

[Praxeas]

This is a "folly" Prax???

February 1997: Falwell sponsors a pastors’ briefing in Washington, during which he threatens to form a new political party if Republicans waver on abortion.
I would not consider that a folly, unless you consider that he is supposed to be a preacher not a politician...don't ignore the other stuff

[SDG]

I would not consider that a folly, unless you consider that he is supposed to be a preacher not a politician...don't ignore the other stuff

Dr. King was both.

[Barb]

Report: Jerry Falwell taken to hospital after being found unconscious

LYNCHBURG, Va. (AP) - A Liberty University executive says the Reverend Jerry Falwell has been taken to the hospital after he was found unconscious in his office.

The executive vice president of the school tells The News and Advance of Lynchburg that Falwell was found unconscious after missing an appointment this morning.

The newspaper says Falwell arrived at Lynchburg General Hospital around noon.
I heard this at work...praying for his family...

[Praxeas]

BECAUSE YOU ASKED
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$



March 1980: MAJOR LIE # 1 Falwell tells an Anchorage rally about a conversation with President Carter at the White House. Commenting on a January breakfast meeting, Falwell claimed to have asked Carter why he had "practicing homosexuals" on the senior staff at the White House. According to Falwell, Carter replied, "Well, I am president of all the American people, and I believe I should represent everyone." When others who attended the White House event insisted that the exchange never happened, Falwell responded that his account "was not intended to be a verbatim report," but rather an "honest portrayal" of Carter’s position.



August 1980: After Southern Baptist Convention President Bailey Smith tells a Dallas Religious Right gathering that "God Almighty does not hear the prayer of a Jew," Falwell gives a similar view. "I do not believe," he told reporters, "that God answers the prayer of any unredeemed Gentile or Jew." After a meeting with an American Jewish Committee rabbi, he changed course, telling an interviewer on NBC’s "Meet the Press" that "God hears the prayers of all persons….God hears everything."



July 1984: MAJOR LIE # 2 Falwell is forced to pay gay activist Jerry Sloan $5,000 after losing a court battle. During a TV debate in Sacramento, Falwell denied calling the gay-oriented Metropolitan Community Churches "brute beasts" and "a vile and Satanic system" that will "one day be utterly annihilated and there will be a celebration in heaven." When Sloan insisted he had a tape, Falwell promised $5,000 if he could produce it. Sloan did so, Falwell refused to pay and Sloan successfully sued. Falwell appealed, with his attorney charging that the Jewish judge in the case was prejudiced. He lost again and was forced to pay an additional $2,875 in sanctions and court fees.



March 1987: Falwell accepts control of the collapsing PTL from his friend and fellow televangelist Jim Bakker. The floundering PTL (Praise The Lord Network) and it’s Heritage U.S.A. evangelical theme park continued to fall into bankruptcy. Falwell was accused of forcing his Fundamentalist ideas on Bakker’s Presbyterian flock. Tammy Faye, the former wife of Jim Bakker said in her 1996 book, Telling It My Way, "Jerry Falwell conned Jim into giving the PTL to him. He got us at a time when I had just gotten out of the hospital. He knew we were at a down time in our lives. He came to California and he lied to Jim. He told Jim he wanted to help him and Jim believed him."




October 1987: CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR # 1 The Federal Election Commission fines Falwell $6,000 for transferring $6.7 million in funds intended for his ministry to political committees.



January 1991: Siding with Americans United, the Virginia Supreme Court unanimously
rejects Falwell’s quest for $60 million in state bonds for his Liberty University. During the litigation, Falwell tried to camouflage the school’s rigidly fundamentalist character, telling the court that the school would no longer discriminate in hiring or force students to attend mandatory chapel (renamed convocation). All the while, Falwell assured his congregation that Liberty had not changed, insisting chapel will be mandatory "until Jesus comes."



1991: Stephens Inc., a Savings and Loan institution from Arkansas forecloses the North Campus of Liberty University, which Falwell had put up as collateral on $72.3 million. Falwell was also involved in the eventual failure of the Lincoln Savings and Loan of California, after borrowing $32 million. The deed to Thomas Road Baptist Church was recovered from their vault and returned.



January 1993: In the wake of Bill Clinton’s election to the presidency, Falwell mails fund-raising letters nationwide asking people to vote on whether he should reactivate the Moral Majority. He later refuses to say how much money the effort raised and tells reporters he has no intention of reactivating the organization.



February 1993: CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR # 2 The Internal Revenue Service determines that funds from Falwell’s Old Time Gospel Hour program were illegally funneled to a political action committee. The IRS forced Falwell to pay $50,000 and retroactively revoked the Old Time Gospel Hour’s tax-exempt status for 1986-87.



May 1985: MAJOR LIE # 3 Falwell apologizes to a Jewish group for seeking a "Christian" America. From now on, he says, he will use the term "Judeo-Christian."
March 1993: Despite his promise to Jewish groups to stop referring to America as a "Christian nation," Falwell gives a sermon saying, "We must never allow our children to forget that this is a Christian nation. We must take back what is rightfully ours."

November 1987: MAJOR LIE # 4 Falwell tells reporters he is stepping down as head of the Moral Majority and retiring from politics. "From now on, my real platform is the pulpit, not politics," he says at a news conference.
September 1993: Falwell announces he will not reactivate the Moral Majority but will instead do political work through a group called the Liberty Alliance.



September 1994: Falwell endorses former Iran-Contra figure Oliver North for a U.S. Senate seat in Virginia. Falwell glosses over North’s legal problems, saying they happened "in the past."

1994-1995: CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR # 3 Falwell is criticized for using his "Old Time Gospel Hour" to hawk a scurrilous video called "The Clinton Chronicles" that makes a number of unsubstantiated charges against President Bill Clinton—among them that he is a drug addict and that he arranged the murders of political enemies in Arkansas. Despite claims he had no ties to the project, evidence surfaced that Falwell helped bankroll the venture with $200,000 paid to a group called Citizens for Honest Government (CHG). CHG’s Pat Matrisciana later admitted that Falwell and he staged an infomercial interview promoting the video in which a silhouetted reporter said his life was in danger for investigating Clinton. (Matrisciana himself posed as the reporter.) "That was Jerry’s idea to do that," Matrisciana recalled. "He thought that would be dramatic."



June 1997: Falwell announces a plan to urge fundamentalist churches to intervene in partisan politics. He vows to send sample candidate endorsement sermons that pastors can read in their churches and says he has already done this in the Virginia attorney general’s race. Falwell drops the plan after being reported to the IRS by Americans United.



August 1997: Falwell pleads for funds for a new group, the National Committee for the Restoration of the Judeo-Christian Ethic. In a fund-raising letter, he promises to "get back in the ring" and be a "spiritual George Foreman." He pledges to register 4 million new voters and mobilize 50,000 pastors. After publishing a couple of fund-raising letters, the group is never heard from again.



November 1997: Falwell accepts $3.5 million from a front group representing controversial Korean evangelist Sun Myung Moon to ease Liberty University’s financial woes. The donation, and several Falwell appearances at Moon conferences, raised eyebrows because Moon claims to be the messiah sent to complete the failed mission of Jesus Christ, a doctrine sharply at odds with Falwell’s fundamentalist Christian theology. (In 1978, before the Moon money started flowing, Falwell told Esquire magazine, "Reverend Sun Myung Moon is like the plague: he exploits boys and girls, and he should be exported.")



February 1998: Falwell accepts a $70-million donation from insurance magnate Art Williams, for his debt-ridden Liberty University. Falwell says the contribution will free him to focus on politics again


April 1998: MAJOR LIE # 5 Confronted on national television with a controversial quote from America Can Be Saved!, a published collection of his sermons, Falwell denies having written the book or had anything to do with it. In the 1979 work, Falwell wrote, "I hope to live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won’t have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be!" Despite Falwell’s denial, Sword of the Lord Publishing, which produced the book, confirms that Falwell wrote it.



October 1998: In a fund-raising letter, Falwell announces plans to expand his ministry and to "immediately rededicate myself to use my God-given skills as a national spokesman for morality and return to the moral/political arena....[W]ith God’s anointing and your prayerful support, you will soon think I am omnipresent."



January 1999: Falwell tells a pastors’ conference in Kingsport, Tenn., that the Antichrist prophesied in the Bible is alive today and "of course he’ll be Jewish."



February 1999: MAJOR LIE # 6 uh-oh! Falwell becomes the object of nationwide ridicule after his National Liberty Journal newspaper issues a "parents alert" warning that Tinky Winky, a character on the popular PBS children’s show "Teletubbies," might be gay. (Americans United was responsible for releasing the information to the national press.)



April 2000: CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR # 4 Falwell forms the People of Faith 2000, a campaign designed to mobilize Christians in the 2000 election. Federal tax laws clearly state that it is illegal for a tax-exempt organization to conduct partisan voter registration. Although Falwell claims his campaign is nonpartisan he admits, "It is my experience that most people of faith in the country vote pro-family, pro-life, and that will mean George W. Bush." He may also be accused of funneling tax-deductible donations made to his religious ministries into partisan political projects…. So what’s new?

[SDG]

Ooh .!!!!.. A college President accepts funds from a booster ....

February 1998: Falwell accepts a $70-million donation from insurance magnate Art Williams, for his debt-ridden Liberty University. Falwell says the contribution will free him to focus on politics again

[Praxeas]

Dr. King was both.
Did King state preachers should never be politicians, then become one, then state he would stay out of politics only to go back in?

This guy has more waffles than Bill Clinton. He's a white Al Sharpton.

That's the price you pay for getting into politics though.

BTW I don't consider King a politician. He was a social activist.

[Praxeas]

Ooh .!!!!.. A college President accepts funds from a booster ....

February 1998: Falwell accepts a $70-million donation from insurance magnate Art Williams, for his debt-ridden Liberty University. Falwell says the contribution will free him to focus on politics again
After saying he would stay out of politics to preach the gospel...what was he? A great politician?

[SDG]

After saying he would stay out of politics to preach the gospel...what was he? A great politician?

You have confused some of his POLITICAL Activism .... with being a POLITICIAN.

[Praxeas]

You have confused some of his POLITICAL Activism .... with being a POLITICIAN.
He said he was staying OUT of politics, not "I won't become a politician" to concentrate on the gospel. He flip flops.

[SDG]

Did Falwell run for office like Sharpton ... I'm not sure .... We need to define politician as opposed to political/social activism ... which you describe Dr. King so accurately.

[SDG]

Christians involved in politics is as old as the Protestant Reformation ... the American Revolution ... Civil Rights movement,
etc.

[SDG]

You've allowed your political views to skew your view of reality ... Prax.

[NLYP]

Are you guys all serious? Yeah I think it is sad, but I think it is sad when anyone dies, but do you all really think this was a great Christian leader?

ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ronzo]

Did Falwell run for office like Sharpton ... I'm not sure ....
I believe he did in the 80's, if I recall correctly. I could be wrong though. I may have my memories mixed up.

[OGIA]

but hey, if you feel that compassion requires you to get your sword out and hack up a dead body, go for it. just remember that everyone is standing around taking note of who is hacking up dead bodies.Why do you automatically assume that's what I might feel to do just because I presented the other side of judging someone's eternal destiny?

[NLYP]

NLYP statement blew me away too. What does this guy believe anyway???????

OH give me a break! I didnt say a leader in the Apostolic bless God we are the only ones saved way!

I said Christian Leader...and that he was!!!!!

Wake up guys...we have truth but we are not the only ones allowed the label of Christian!

Are you refering to me as "this guy"?

[OGIA]

Who has said as much yet ... but playing God certainly would not be.Who has said as much regarding the other? You are the one who started the whole child's finger-pointing game.

[NLYP]

He is a baptist....
As for what he has said and done...well let's see
http://freedom_press.tripod.com/one.html

Shall we pull up the follies of the UPCI!???

Be better than this Prax!

[Praxeas]

Did Falwell run for office like Sharpton ... I'm not sure .... We need to define politician as opposed to political/social activism ... which you describe Dr. King so accurately.
Both Sharpton and Falwell were very much involved in politics. If all Sharpton ever did was preach against social injustices and organize rallies and preach equality I'd be all for that.

And there isn't necessarily anything wrong with being involved in some aspect in politics, but as we have seen Politicians are often prone to being inconsistant, flip flopping, lies and fiscal mismanagement. I can't say that such reflects well on Christianity in general.

He may have been a good Christian, but I don't think he was a great or solid Christian leader.

I think a better Christian leader in this respect is Dr Dobson.

[NLYP]

*Prax carefully and awkwardly TAKES HIS FOOT OUT OF HIS MOUTH*

OH no not yet....let us all savour this moment!

[SDG]

Both Sharpton and Falwell were very much involved in politics. If all Sharpton ever did was preach against social injustices and organize rallies and preach equality I'd be all for that.

And there isn't necessarily anything wrong with being involved in some aspect in politics, but as we have seen Politicians are often prone to being inconsistant, flip flopping, lies and fiscal mismanagement. I can't say that such reflects well on Christianity in general.

He may have been a good Christian, but I don't think he was a great or solid Christian leader.

I think a better Christian leader in this respect is Dr Dobson.

My fried Dr. King just didn't preach and organize rallies .... he was very much a political animal.

[Praxeas]

Shall we pull up the follies of the UPCI!???

Be better than this Prax!
When the UPCI dies and you come along and lament how great the UPCI was and someone wants to point out it was not all that great, I would not lose any sleep over it. Truth is truth and facts are facts. My opinion and thank God I am still allowed one...I can see the ugly crowd now gathing with torches and faggots, is that this man was NOT that great a Christian leader.

[Praxeas]

My fried Dr. King just didn't preach and organize rallies .... he was very much a political animal.
Can you describe Dr Kings political activities?

[SDG]

I see no records of Falwell running for office ....

[Praxeas]

You've allowed your political views to skew your view of reality ... Prax.
Danny, do you know what my political views are?

[NLYP]

When the UPCI dies and you come along and lament how great the UPCI was and someone wants to point out it was not all that great, I would not lose any sleep over it. Truth is truth and facts are facts. My opinion and thank God I am still allowed one...I can see the ugly crowd now gathing with torches and faggots, is that this man was NOT that great a Christian leader.

Sad....

[OGIA]

I can see the ugly crowd now gathing with torches and faggots, is that this man was NOT that great a Christian leader.:killinme

[Praxeas]

I see no records of Falwell running for office ....
Who said he ran for office?

[Hoovie]

I see no records of Falwell running for office ....

I think I remember him entertaining a Presidential bid....

[SDG]

whats up w/ the "F" word???

[Praxeas]

Sad....
God forbid someone has a different opinion of what makes a solid or great Christian leader around here...sad...yes that is sad

[SDG]

I think I remember him entertaining a Presidential bid....

Sharpton was a politician ... HE RAN.

[Praxeas]

whats up w/ the "F" word???
Good grief, you all are too much.
faggot (1)
1279, "bundle of twigs bound up," from O.Fr. fagot "bundle of sticks," from It. faggotto, dim. of V.L. *facus, from L. fascis "bundle of wood" (see fasces (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fasces)). Esp. used for burning heretics (a sense attested from 1555), so that phrase fire and faggot was used to mean "punishment of a heretic." Heretics who recanted were required to wear an embroidered figure of a faggot on their sleeve, as an emblem and reminder of what they deserved

[SDG]

Falwell's Moral Majority was one the major forces behind the election of the Greatest President of the 20th Century ... RONALD REAGAN.

[Praxeas]

Sharpton was a politician ... HE RAN.
Did King run?

[Old Paths]

So sad.

JF was a baptist and it looks like he died a baptist.


Didn't I read where he had some Pentecostals evicted from Liberty Bible campus?

Wonder what he thinks now?

[Praxeas]

Falwell's Moral Majority was one the major forces behind the election of the Greatest President of the 20th Century ... RONALD REAGAN.
Maybe, and that was a good POLITICAL thing to do....what were we discussing?

[SDG]

Did King run?

Did Falwell??

Now we agree both were POLITICAL ACTIVISTS.

[SDG]

Maybe, and that was a good POLITICAL thing to do....what were we discussing?

No... we're discussing how you've BUTCHERED the word POLITICIAN.

[Praxeas]

So sad.

JF was a baptist and it looks like he died a baptist.


Didn't I read where he had some Pentecostals evicted from Liberty Bible campus?

Wonder what he thinks now?
I recall reading about that

[NLYP]

So sad.

JF was a baptist and it looks like he died a baptist.


Didn't I read where he had some Pentecostals evicted from Liberty Bible campus?

Wonder what he thinks now?

Before I go balistic...Ill give you the chance to explain the bolded part!

[Hoovie]

So sad.

JF was a baptist and it looks like he died a baptist.


Didn't I read where he had some Pentecostals evicted from Liberty Bible campus?

Wonder what he thinks now?

I can see this thread is about to get ugly.

I'm out.

[NLYP]

So sad.

JF was a baptist and it looks like he died a baptist.


Didn't I read where he had some Pentecostals evicted from Liberty Bible campus?

Wonder what he thinks now?
What are you implying????????

[Ronzo]

I can see this thread is about to get ugly.

I'm out.
Me too. Thank God for the ignore thread function.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Praxeas http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?p=114001#post114001)
I would not consider that a folly, unless you consider that he is supposed to be a preacher not a politician...don't ignore the other stuff


Dr. King was both.
Or maybe YOU are confused since you started this vein off by saying King was both a politician and a preacher...now you say he is NOT a politician but a political activist?

pol·i·ti·cian http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fbrowse%2 Fpolitician) (pŏl'ĭ-tĭsh'ən) Pronunciation Key (http://cache.lexico.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html)
n.

One who is actively involved in politics, especially party politics.
One who holds or seeks a political office.
One who seeks personal or partisan gain, often by scheming and maneuvering: "Mothers may still want their favorite sons to grow up to be President, but . . . they do not want them to become politicians in the process" (John F. Kennedy).
One who is skilled or experienced in the science or administration of government.

[rgcraig]

I'm speechless.

[Brother Strange]

Has anyone seen Elder EPLEY?

Where O where is Bishop EPLEY when we need him the MOST?

Has he abandoned his post of duty HERE???

[NLYP]

I'm speechless.

You and me both...and you might as well get the Infraction button ready if Old Paths comes back with what I think he is going to come back with!

[Praxeas]

BTW, Dan and Dan..... do you both agree Dr Dobson is a great and or solid Christian leader in the area of "being involved in politics"?

[NLYP]

Old Paths.....Definition of Christian is being Christ like.
I venture to say that Jerry Falwell in life was more of the defintion of what a true Christian is then the trash you have spoken on this thread.
IF you actually are passing judgement on JF as being a baptist and then to insinuate "wonder what he thinks now" = he is in hell.
YOU Sir are NO Christian! PERIOD!

[NLYP]

BTW, Dan and Dan..... do you both agree Dr Dobson is a great and or solid Christian leader in the area of "being involved in politics"?

Prax....as admin of this great forum...you are embarrasing me....I hope they are tearing you up in admin section......:icecream :icecream

[Malvaro]

Old Paths.....Definition of Christian is being Christ like.
I venture to say that Jerry Falwell in life was more of the defintion of what a true Christian is then the trash you have spoken on this thread.
IF you actually are passing judgement on JF as being a baptist and then to insinuate "wonder what he thinks now" = he is in hell.
YOU Sir are NO Christian! PERIOD!

That, fine sir, was your 666th post.... what say ye???

[Sister Alvear]

Well, no matter what he was or was not it is a sad day for his family and friends...death is never an easy subject for those that remain.
I did not agree with what he believed but he is in the hands of a God that will judge him. Judging is not my job but as a christian it is my job to remember his family in my prayers.
Blessings to all. Mom Alvear

[NLYP]

That, fine sir, was your 666th post.... what say ye???

Could not have picked a better number to express my feeling about his attitude.

[NLYP]

Well, no matter what he was or was not it is a sad day for his family and friends...death is never an easy subject for those that remain.
I did not agree with what he believed but he is in the hands of a God that will judge him. Judging is not my job but as a christian it is my job to remember his family in my prayers.
Blessings to all. Mom Alvear

Thanks Mom......once again you have made me proud!

[Malvaro]

Prax....as admin of this great forum...you are embarrasing me....I hope they are tearing you up in admin section.....hmmmm of course I may already know that.:icecream :icecream

Prax, you see that fancy "Look who I know" card that NLYP just played??? :nod

[NLYP]

Prax, you see that fancy "Look who I know" card that NLYP just played??? :nod

Whatever...you have NO CLUE!:icecream :icecream :icecream :icecream :icecream

[Praxeas]

Prax....as admin of this great forum...you are embarrasing me....I hope they are tearing you up in admin section.....hmmmm of course I may already know that.:icecream :icecream
You didn't answer. Why is it Dan when someone has a different opinion from yours you get nasty and insulting? Is that how you go through life? Aren't you supposed to be a minister? I happen to see Dobson as a much better Christian leader in the context of what we are discussing than Falwell ever was.

[rgcraig]

Well, no matter what he was or was not it is a sad day for his family and friends...death is never an easy subject for those that remain.
I did not agree with what he believed but he is in the hands of a God that will judge him. Judging is not my job but as a christian it is my job to remember his family in my prayers.
Blessings to all. Mom Alvear

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!

[Elizabeth]

I hope we can at least stop and pray for his family, I am sure this has taken them by total surprise.

[Praxeas]

BTW I never said a word about the mans salvation. I disagree he was a great or solid Christian leader.

[Old Paths]

If I am reading the news right he was a baptist preacher that died a baptist preacher.

Never attacked the man.

[NLYP]

If I am reading the news right he was a baptist preacher that died a baptist preacher.

Never attacked the man.

:haloplug :haloplug :haloplug :haloplug :haloplug :haloplug :haloplug :haloplug :haloplug

[Barb]

Well, no matter what he was or was not it is a sad day for his family and friends...death is never an easy subject for those that remain.
I did not agree with what he believed but he is in the hands of a God that will judge him. Judging is not my job but as a christian it is my job to remember his family in my prayers.
Blessings to all. Mom Alvear

Always, always a voice of reason!!

Regardless of doctrinal issues, some things for respect sake CAN wait a bit...:nod

Excellent post, Mother A...:thumbsup

[Barb]

I hope we can at least stop and pray for his family, I am sure this has taken them by total surprise.

Yes indeed...

[Old Paths]

You didn't answer. Why is it Dan when someone has a different opinion from yours you get nasty and insulting? Is that how you go through life? Aren't you supposed to be a minister? I happen to see Dobson as a much better Christian leader in the context of what we are discussing than Falwell ever was.


I agree.

James Dobson has done enormous things to better society and the home.

[NLYP]

Are you guys all serious? Yeah I think it is sad, but I think it is sad when anyone dies, but do you all really think this was a great Christian leader?

Prax...this is the post that started it all.....YOU challenged OUR opinion of the man...YOU posted his "follies" YOU argued our opinions.

[NLYP]

If I am reading the news right he was a baptist preacher that died a baptist preacher.

Never attacked the man.

You actually stand by that???
You said "Wonder what he thinks now"

AFTER stating that he once was against the Pentecostals.....
He is NOW dead....so what else did you mean???????

How much more could you attack a man then to comment on his eternity?!

[Old Paths]

Old Paths.....Definition of Christian is being Christ like.
I venture to say that Jerry Falwell in life was more of the defintion of what a true Christian is then the trash you have spoken on this thread.
IF you actually are passing judgement on JF as being a baptist and then to insinuate "wonder what he thinks now" = he is in hell.
YOU Sir are NO Christian! PERIOD!


My O My...

Feel better?

Thank the Lord for such wonderful christian attitudes.


:laffatu

[NLYP]

My O My...

Feel better?

Thank the Lord for such wonderful christian attitudes.


:laffatu

Just following your lead!

[South of I 90]

I hope we can at least stop and pray for his family, I am sure this has taken them by total surprise.

Unfortunately for some on this forum this was impossible a month ago when 32 people was killed at VT, it sure not going to happen with this recent event!

[Praxeas]

Prax...this is the poast that started it all.....YOU challenged OUR opinion of the man...YOU posted his "follies" YOU argued our opinions.
Right, I DISAGREE. Does that bother you Dan? He might have been a good man. He might have been a Christian. But I do not consider him to be a great or solid Christian leader. I think there are better choices. Lament for what you feel is your solid Christian leader if you want. I am a little surprised to see that this is how you feel.

[Old Paths]

Just following your lead!



No really you're not following my lead.

Maybe one of your friends, but not me.

I have never said this anyone.

YOU Sir are NO Christian! PERIOD!

But I forgive you.

[Malvaro]

Prax...this is the post that started it all.....YOU challenged OUR opinion of the man...YOU posted his "follies" YOU argued our opinions.

follies are apart of the "big picture"....

even when pondering Christian characters, their flaws have to be noted as well.... maybe not on the day they die, but at some point never-the-less....

[NLYP]

So sad.

JF was a baptist and it looks like he died a baptist.


Didn't I read where he had some Pentecostals evicted from Liberty Bible campus?

Wonder what he thinks now?



So then what did you mean......inquiring minds want to know.

[NLYP]

No really you're not following my lead.

Maybe one of your friends, but not me.

I have never said this anyone.



But I forgive you.

I didnt ask you to.

[Old Paths]

I didnt ask you to.



I did it for me.

You will have to work it out for yourself.

[Elizabeth]

Unfortunately for some on this forum this was impossible a month ago when 32 people was killed at VT, it sure not going to happen with this recent event!

There are those that do pray, everything may not come to a stand still. But we do have prayer warriors around here we can count on.

[NLYP]

I did it for me.

You will have to work it out for yourself.

Originally Posted by Old Paths View Post
So sad.

JF was a baptist and it looks like he died a baptist.


Didn't I read where he had some Pentecostals evicted from Liberty Bible campus?

Wonder what he thinks now?

How long are you going to dodge this????

[Old Paths]

So then what did you mean......inquiring minds want to know.
Really if you would be rid of the prejudice then it was evident what I posted.

[Praxeas]

This is what OP was referring to

Liberty University Dismissed Students For Practicing A Religion Other Than Baptism. Three students at Jerry Falwell's Liberty University were dismissed because they "refused to stop worshiping at a Pentecostal church," as opposed to the Baptist services mandated by the school. University staff said that the three were "creating some confusion" among the other students by sharing with them their differing religious beliefs. [Associated Press, 9/27/91]

[Old Paths]

This is what OP was referring to

Liberty University Dismissed Students For Practicing A Religion Other Than Baptism. Three students at Jerry Falwell's Liberty University were dismissed because they "refused to stop worshiping at a Pentecostal church," as opposed to the Baptist services mandated by the school. University staff said that the three were "creating some confusion" among the other students by sharing with them their differing religious beliefs. [Associated Press, 9/27/91]



Thanks Prax

I remember it being a BIG thing among Pentecostals a t the time.

And I still wonder if he has any regrets.

You know, IF he could do it again would he do it different?

J/W

[Destiny2]

Really folks the man just died,the family is grieving,I think we would do better to pray for his family and church family and let a just God be his judge,my thoughts anyway,if one of his family was to log on to this site would they be disppointed in some of us,just a thought.

[Barb]

Really folks the man just died,the family is grieving,I think we would do better to pray for his family and church family and let a just God be his judge,my thoughts anyway,if one of his family was to log on to this site would they be disppointed in some of us,just a thought.

Yes, ma'am...I agree!!:nod

How are YOU, dear lady?!:kittyhug

[OGIA]

Put 'em in heaven, but GOD FORBID anyone put 'em in hell!!!


I can't believe people won't make a statement that someone was lost.

[Old Paths]

Put 'em in heaven, but GOD FORBID anyone put 'em in hell!!!


I can't believe people won't make a statement that someone was lost.



IF YOU HAD ANY LOVE OF GOD YOU WOULD NEVER EVEN THINK SUCH A THING.

































TIC


:largehalo

[Hoovie]

:vomit :depressed :stop

[josh]

Originally Posted by Old Paths View Post
So sad.

JF was a baptist and it looks like he died a baptist.


Didn't I read where he had some Pentecostals evicted from Liberty Bible campus?

Wonder what he thinks now?

How long are you going to dodge this????

What is there to dodge?

Listen, I grieve for the man...and pray for his family. How can you attack OP with such vehemence, even saying he's not a christian????

Do you believe the salvation message of the church you attend??? If so then you should lament Jerry Falwell's stance, too. He was dead set against anyone who spoke with tongues. He refuted the doctrines you claim to preach.

So, what do you really believe???? That he's in heaven?

I know that there are many here who believe Falwell is in heaven and that is consistent with what they believe. It's your attack on OP that has me puzzled.

By the way, I don't rejoice at Falwell's demise. Neither do I pretend he was a great christian leader....or saved. I am deeply saddened by that, too.

[Praxeas]

What is there to dodge?

Listen, I grieve for the man...and pray for his family. How can you attack OP with such vehemence, even saying he's not a christian????

Do you believe the salvation message of the church you attend??? If so then you should lament Jerry Falwell's stance, too. He was dead set against anyone who spoke with tongues. He refuted the doctrines you claim to preach.

So, what do you really believe???? That he's in heaven?

I know that there are many here who believe Falwell is in heaven and that is consistent with what they believe. It's your attack on OP that has me puzzled.

By the way, I don't rejoice at Falwell's demise. Neither do I pretend he was a great christian leader....or saved. I am deeply saddened by that, too.
Good question...this is sort of like the pot and kettle issue...lol or maybe he never heard two wrongs don't make a right.

[Mrpapajo]

It's a sad thing when a person dies. JF himself said he was a Baptist and that he didn't believe in tongues, didn't believe baptism was necessary. That right there is enough to judge a person by. Now the question is; is it I doing the judging or has not the word of God already judged such a person on his actions?

BTW the word Christian was first used to identify those that obeyed acts 2:38 not people who live a moral life. How can one be a christian and not have Christ. There is only one way to have Christ.
You can read it in Acts 11:24-26 NLYP

[lisafitzh2o]

What is there to dodge?

Listen, I grieve for the man...and pray for his family. How can you attack OP with such vehemence, even saying he's not a christian????

Do you believe the salvation message of the church you attend??? If so then you should lament Jerry Falwell's stance, too. He was dead set against anyone who spoke with tongues. He refuted the doctrines you claim to preach.

So, what do you really believe???? That he's in heaven?

I know that there are many here who believe Falwell is in heaven and that is consistent with what they believe. It's your attack on OP that has me puzzled.

By the way, I don't rejoice at Falwell's demise. Neither do I pretend he was a great christian leader....or saved. I am deeply saddened by that, too.

Thanks, Josh....I was thinking the same thing.

All I know is, when James Wolfe pastored in Lynchburg, Jerry Fallwell put him through hell on earth -- trying to keep that church from growing.

I feel sorry for his family, though...I know what it is like to receive shocking news like that.

[Sarah]

I'm sorry for JF's death, and I pray for his family. He was very conservative in a lot of political areas.

I didn't see anything wrong in Old Path's post. Like NLYP, he's very blunt in his writing. You pretty much know where they both stand on many issues. I'm puzzed that Dan is even surprised at OP's post.

Some of our young people were looking to attend Bible college at one time, so they were on many college's mailing list. They got one from Liberty College, and it plainly said if you believe in speaking in tongues, we strongly suggest you go to another school. So I guess he was against the Pentecostal belief.

[SDG]

Or maybe YOU are confused since you started this vein off by saying King was both a politician and a preacher...now you say he is NOT a politician but a political activist?

pol·i·ti·cian http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fbrowse%2 Fpolitician) (pŏl'ĭ-tĭsh'ən) Pronunciation Key (http://cache.lexico.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html)
n.

One who is actively involved in politics, especially party politics.
One who holds or seeks a political office.
One who seeks personal or partisan gain, often by scheming and maneuvering: "Mothers may still want their favorite sons to grow up to be President, but . . . they do not want them to become politicians in the process" (John F. Kennedy).
One who is skilled or experienced in the science or administration of government.

My poor Praxeas ... if we are to use your definition of politician ... then MLK was a politician ...

Some examples:

1956 King speaks before the platform committee of the Democratic National Convention in Chicago, recommending a strong civil rights plank in the party platform.


1965
August - December
In Alabama, SCLC spearheads voter registration campaigns in Green and Wilcox counties, and in the cities of Montgomery, Birmingham, and Eutaw, Alabama.


1966 -
Spring
Dr. King tours Alabama to help elect black candidates.
The Alabama Primary is held, and for the first time since Reconstruction, blacks vote in significant numbers.

[SDG]

MLK was a political activist helping end segregation ... his other causes involved ....voter registration, anti-war protests, poverty.

JF ...was also a political activist .... who also led voter registration drives, fought against same-sex marriages, abortion and the de-Christianization of America.

[SDG]

Interestingly enough there is a staunch PAJCer from this forum ... who is enrolled at Liberty College

[ILG]

I feel for his family and pray for them. Beats me where he went. Guess I'll leave that up to God! :thumbsup

[FRINGE_NUTTER]

Here's the FRINGE_NUTTER's 2 cents: :2cents

I do not believe that the diatribe against OP's question is justified.

Maybe "Wonder what he thinks now?" was the not the most appropriate thing to say at this time, but certainly OP does not deserve to be told that he is acting unChristian.

If any of us who believe in speaking in tongues applied to his unversity, he would not even allow us to attend. He may have taken some correct stances on abortion and helped Ronald Reagan and other conservatives to win political offices, but how can anyone who preaches Acts 2:38 hold him in such high esteem?

Let's pray for his family and stop attacking each other.

That's the FRINGE_NUTTER's two cents. :2cents

[Praxeas]

My poor Praxeas ... if we are to use your definition of politician ... then MLK was a politician ...
dan, you said MLK was a politican, then you say he was not...which is it? Aren't you just obfuscating now?


Some examples:

1956 King speaks before the platform committee of the Democratic National Convention in Chicago, recommending a strong civil rights plank in the party platform.


1965
August - December
In Alabama, SCLC spearheads voter registration campaigns in Green and Wilcox counties, and in the cities of Montgomery, Birmingham, and Eutaw, Alabama.


1966 -
Spring
Dr. King tours Alabama to help elect black candidates.
The Alabama Primary is held, and for the first time since Reconstruction, blacks vote in significant numbers.

So he probably WAS a politician like you said he was, then said he wasn't. At this point it doesn't really seem relevant. Im sure they were great leaders, good men....maybe even good Christians, though good is somewhat subjective. Im sure we can say they were both great political activists...or maybe someone will say MLK was and JF was only a good political activist. etc etc etc, but that is my opinion...I've never looked to JW as my Christian leader....

[Praxeas]

Interestingly enough there is a staunch PAJCer from this forum ... who is enrolled at Liberty College
Not wanting his ID made known for fear of being expelled? :ursofunny

J/k

[Tina]

I'm not saying I'm a fan of Jerry Falwell. I may not agree with his beliefs, but I'm certainly not his judge.

I just think it's very disrespectful to continue the fighting in this thread... Good grief, the man died today.

It is God's job to be his judge-- not ours.

Not that anyone really cares what I think, but that's my two cents worth.

[SDG]

dan, you said MLK was a politican, then you say he was not...which is it? Aren't you just obfuscating now?


So he probably WAS a politician like you said he was, then said he wasn't. At this point it doesn't really seem relevant. Im sure they were great leaders, good men....maybe even good Christians, though good is somewhat subjective. Im sure we can say they were both great political activists...or maybe someone will say MLK was and JF was only a good political activist. etc etc etc, but that is my opinion...I've never looked to JW as my Christian leader....

bubba :laffatu

... you're the one saying JF was a politician ... see your posts ... I'm simply highlighting the faulty reasoning behind your assertion

JF and MLK were not politicians ... they were POLITICAL ACTIVISTS

[OGIA]

I feel for the man's family because they THINK he's eternally secure. I feel for them because they lost a loved one. I feel for them because they'll likely die lost, too.

If we grieve more for the loss of a life more than we grieve for the loss of a soul, we've got some wires crossed and screwed in wrong.

[SDG]

I think he has quite an extensive body of work ... sans politics ... for what he's done in the Christian community ... if you want to concede ... that he is a political activist ... and not a politician ...

I will gladly examine w/ you his contribution to Christendom.

[Praxeas]

bubba :laffatu

... you're the one saying JF was a politician ... see your posts ... I'm simply making highlighting the faulty reasoning behind your assertion

JF and MLK were not politicians ... they were POLITICAL ACTIVISTS
according to what you posted and the definition, they were both politicians....so what? I was wrong, MKJ was not merely a social activist, but a political activist. What bearing does that have on the topic? Or are you just obfuscating again? :tease

[Praxeas]

I think he has quite an extensive body of work ... sans politics ... for what he's done in the Christian community ... if you want to concede ... that he is a political activist ... and not a politician ...

I will gladly examine w/ you his contribution to Christendom.
I'll go with the dictionary Dan for $5000, at this point I don't see how it matters.

[SDG]

After saying he would stay out of politics to preach the gospel...what was he? A great politician?

To help Prax's selective amnesia.

[SDG]

Can you describe Dr Kings political activities?

I think I just did.

[SDG]

Did King state preachers should never be politicians, then become one, then state he would stay out of politics only to go back in?

This guy has more waffles than Bill Clinton. He's a white Al Sharpton.

That's the price you pay for getting into politics though.

BTW I don't consider King a politician. He was a social activist.

Prax once again suggesting JF is a politician while King is not

Who is obfuscating???

[NLYP]

What is there to dodge?

Listen, I grieve for the man...and pray for his family. How can you attack OP with such vehemence, even saying he's not a christian????

Do you believe the salvation message of the church you attend??? If so then you should lament Jerry Falwell's stance, too. He was dead set against anyone who spoke with tongues. He refuted the doctrines you claim to preach.

So, what do you really believe???? That he's in heaven?

I know that there are many here who believe Falwell is in heaven and that is consistent with what they believe. It's your attack on OP that has me puzzled.

By the way, I don't rejoice at Falwell's demise. Neither do I pretend he was a great christian leader....or saved. I am deeply saddened by that, too.
You missed the whole point!
The BIBLE will dictate if he is in heaven...the Bible will dictate where he stands in God.

IT BOILS me when some sanctimonious man tries to say..."yup...that another Baptist in hell"!

Let the Lord be the judge....he didnt need that rabid ultra con stuff then and does not need it now.

In my way of thinking..I KNOW HOW TO BE SAVED.....in my way of judging....Ill leave that up to a just God...but it will NEVER cross my lips.

[SDG]

Prax,

One of the pillars of your first arguments, in this thread, is that somehow JF was not a great leader because as a preacher he was a "politician" and has no business in politics ...... you have no legs to stand on .... on this one ...

Are you suggesting his work against abortion, pro-morality, anti- same sex marriage, the de-Christianization of America, is not GOOD ENOUGH????

[NLYP]

I feel for the man's family because they THINK he's eternally secure. I feel for them because they lost a loved one. I feel for them because they'll likely die lost, too.

If we grieve more for the loss of a life more than we grieve for the loss of a soul, we've got some wires crossed and screwed in wrong.

UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!
Ignorant......Ignorant!
Now we are putting them in hell before they even die!!!!!!!!!

I am NOT calling you ignorant....but your post smells of a judgmental spirit!

[Theresa]

My 2 cents...

1. he was political, not a politician - not to my knowledge. I dont think he ever held political office. He was concerned about political affairs, shouldnt we all be? Big deal...he was involved, we should all be INVOLVED....


2. He was baptist, he preached and beleived that tongues were unnecessary as was water baptism. For those of us APOSTOLICS on here, it's a valid question, Wonder what he thinks now.......if he died unsaved, he knows this now..However, I have a real hard time beleiving that someone in his position didnt come to the full knowledge of the truth - he just chose not to teach and preach the truth of salvation.....and I too wonder what he thinks now.

3. he was a, well, leader in the regard that he brought issues to the forefront. Forming the what was it, Moral Majority? That was a good move - but he's no "great christian leader"...see my comments above regarding my belief that he HAD full knowledge of the truth....he was human, he made mistakes, so?


it's a sad day for the family and his church family....must we tear each other to shreads b/c we "disagree" on JERRY FALWELL of all people?

[Praxeas]

Prax once again suggesting JF is a politician while King is not

Who is obfuscating???
Hmmm...once again? dan that is dishonest. I posted that a LONG time ago and after you posted information that MKJ was active in politics I conceded he was a politician...so how can you, AFTER that face post something I said a while ago and say "once again"? Are you THAT desparate to win a little tiny point against me? Wow.

Like I said, it's not really relevant to the topic or even what I was getting it. In fact I would say just you posting this on a non-issue is obfuscating the bigger issue we were discussing. But I digress as it seems you are on roll Dan, willing to say or do anything to win a point. I concede Dan, you were right King IS a politician...I said that already, but perhaps dreams of a scooby snack clouded your vision.

you win dan! Get your scooby snack and have a scooby doo fit. Yup, Dan you won that round. MLK was a Politician too lol..:laffatu

[SDG]

Hmmm...once again? dan that is dishonest. I posted that a LONG time ago and after you posted information that MKJ was active in politics I conceded he was a politician...so how can you, AFTER that face post something I said a while ago and say "once again"? Are you THAT desparate to win a little tiny point against me? Wow.

Like I said, it's not really relevant to the topic or even what I was getting it. In fact I would say just you posting this on a non-issue is obfuscating the bigger issue we were discussing. But I digress as it seems you are on roll Dan, willing to say or do anything to win a point. I concede Dan, you were right King IS a politician...I said that already, but perhaps dreams of a scooby snack clouded your vision.

you win dan! Get your scooby snack and have a scooby doo fit. Yup, Dan you won that round. MLK was a Politician too lol..:laffatu

Once again you have not presented a case for why he was not a great Christian leader ... when the consensus among those he even hate him ... acknowledge his contributions to the Christian right

[Theresa]

UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!
Ignorant......Ignorant!
Now we are putting them in hell before they even die!!!!!!!!!

I am NOT calling you ignorant....but your post smells of a judgmental spirit!

If YOU believe that tongues are necessary for salvation, as well as water baptism in Jesus name, then you too can wonder "what he thinks now"

JF was not a tongue talking, HG filled, Jesus Name baptised baptist.

Being baptist doesnt mean you are lost

being unsaved does.

there are a lot of unsaved folks of all denominations.

its not judgemental, its scriptural, sorry if 2+2=4, but it will always = 4....

BUT - who are WE to assume he WASNT saved??? who knows what happened between breakfast and his death..


we dont, we can only hope he was saved.

But again, its a logical question to ask "I wonder".......

it's not being nasty, its a very logical assumption

[Praxeas]

Prax,

One of the pillars of you're first arguments, in this thread, is that somehow JF was not a great leader because as a preacher he was a "politician" and has no business in politics ...... you have no legs to stand on .... on this one ...

Are you suggesting his work against abortion, pro-morality, anti- same sex marriage, the de-Christianization of America, is not GOOD ENOUGH????
No, I was pointing out that he WAFFLED a lot by saying no more politics...just preaching....Im back in politics, no Im not.

Second, Dan, I never said he was NOT a "great leader". I did not consider him a great CHRISTIAN leader. If that is your sacred cow and you feel I stepped on your toes little buddy then forgive me. But for the reasons listed I never did consider him a great or solid Christian leader. He was a very VISIBLE Christian.....he was a very politically active Christian, but I never considered him a great Christian leader.

BTW not good enough for what? Michael Savage speaks against all that stuff strongly and is heard all across America...that does not make the man a great CHRISTIAN LEADER. He might be a leader. He might be a visible voice for morality. That does not make the man necessarily a great christian leader.

[Fonix]

My cousin attended liberty bible college in lynchburg VA.

[SDG]

From Falwell Moral Majority Coalition:



(http://www.moralmajority.us/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=12)
(http://www.moralmajority.us/index2.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&pop=1&page=0&Itemid=27)
(http://www.moralmajority.us/index2.php?option=com_content&task=emailform&id=12&itemid=27) THE FOUR-PRONGED TMMC PLATFORM

Our four-fold platform is:

(1) TMMC will conduct an intensive "Voter Registration Campaign" through America's conservative churches, para-church ministries, pro-life and pro-family organizations.

(2) TMMC will conduct well organized "Get-Out-The-Vote Campaigns" in 2008.

(3) TMMC will engage in the massive recruitment and mobilization of social conservatives through television, radio, direct mail (U.S.P.S. and Internet) and public rallies.

(4) TMMC will encourage the promotion of continuous private and corporate prayer for America's moral renaissance based on 2 Chronicles 7:14.

My leadership role in TMMC reminds me of a similar commitment I made more than a quarter-century ago. It was April 1979. I had just founded the Moral Majority and agreed to devote five years to its leadership. I actually gave ten years of my life before disbanding the organization in 1989 to focus on the expansion of Liberty University.

At that time, God burdened my heart to mobilize religious conservatives around a pro-life, pro-family, strong national defense and pro-Israel platform, designed to return America to her Judeo-Christian heritage.

And I distinctively feel that burden again. Our nation simply cannot continue as we know it if we allow out-of-control lawmakers and radical judges — working at the whims of society — to alter the moral foundations of America.

During Moral Majority’s heyday, we registered millions of new voters and re-activated millions more. More than 100,000 pastors, priests and rabbis and nearly seven million families joined hands and hearts to reclaim America for God. Many historians believe the result was the election of Ronald Reagan in 1980 and the genesis of what the media calls the “Religious Right.”

VOTE VALUES!! A NEW REVOLUTION

In 2004, my wife Macel and I watched the election returns until early the next morning. President Bush was reelected (despite apparent manipulation of the early exit polling). Eleven family initiatives passed overwhelmingly in favor of traditional marriage, and opposing same-sex marriage. Unprecedented victories in the Senate and the House strengthened the President’s hand for future congressional action.

Tom Daschle, the Senate Minority Leader who had consistently obstructed President Bush’s efforts to appoint constructionist judges, was defeated. His defeat should serve as a powerful indicator that we have the power to effectively take on politicians who are under the spell of the potent abortion-rights organizations across this nation.

Christian giants like Dr. James Dobson, founder of Focus on the Family, provided energetic and courageous leadership. Dr. Donald Wildmon of the American Family Association, Dr. D. James Kennedy of Coral Ridge Ministries, Dr. John Hagee of Cornerstone Church in San Antonio, the many national leaders of the Arlington Group, the upstart alternative Internet news sites and more than 225,000 evangelical pastors helped turn out the largest electorate ever. And, I repeat, they all voted Christian!!

We must now diligently work to multiply our turnout for the 2006 and 2008 elections.

As national chairman of TMMC, I am committed to lending my influence to help send out at least 40 million evangelical voters in 2008. The thought of a Hillary Clinton or John Edwards presidency is simply unacceptable (and quite frightening).

"FINISH WHAT YOU STARTED 25 YEARS AGO"

Over the past few days, I have been inundated with requests from across America to “finish what you started 25 years ago.”

With more than seven decades now in the rear view mirror, I can honestly say that I feel the leading of the Holy Spirit to answer that call and to once again mobilize people of faith to reclaim this great country as “one nation under God.” My primary “light of the world” calling is to continue serving as pastor of Thomas Road Baptist Church and chancellor of Liberty University.

But I am praying for the strength and wisdom to also successfully complete my “salt of the earth” ministry. America is worth saving. Our children and children’s children will hold us accountable if we fail.

We will be organizing in all 50 states and enlisting and training millions of Americans to become partners in this exciting task of bringing this nation back to the moral values of faith and family on which it was founded. My National Liberty Journal (http://www.nljonline.com/) newspaper will serve as a springboard for this great effort.

I urge my friends around the country to immediately get involved and join me in this commitment, which is really an investment in America, in our children and in our children’s children.

[SDG]

From Falwell's Moral Majority Coalition:

THE FOUR-PRONGED TMMC PLATFORM

Our four-fold platform is:

(1) TMMC will conduct an intensive "Voter Registration Campaign" through America's conservative churches, para-church ministries, pro-life and pro-family organizations.

(2) TMMC will conduct well organized "Get-Out-The-Vote Campaigns" in 2008.

(3) TMMC will engage in the massive recruitment and mobilization of social conservatives through television, radio, direct mail (U.S.P.S. and Internet) and public rallies.

(4) TMMC will encourage the promotion of continuous private and corporate prayer for America's moral renaissance based on 2 Chronicles 7:14.

My leadership role in TMMC reminds me of a similar commitment I made more than a quarter-century ago. It was April 1979. I had just founded the Moral Majority and agreed to devote five years to its leadership. I actually gave ten years of my life before disbanding the organization in 1989 to focus on the expansion of Liberty University.

At that time, God burdened my heart to mobilize religious conservatives around a pro-life, pro-family, strong national defense and pro-Israel platform, designed to return America to her Judeo-Christian heritage.

And I distinctively feel that burden again. Our nation simply cannot continue as we know it if we allow out-of-control lawmakers and radical judges — working at the whims of society — to alter the moral foundations of America.

During Moral Majority’s heyday, we registered millions of new voters and re-activated millions more. More than 100,000 pastors, priests and rabbis and nearly seven million families joined hands and hearts to reclaim America for God. Many historians believe the result was the election of Ronald Reagan in 1980 and the genesis of what the media calls the “Religious Right.”

VOTE VALUES!! A NEW REVOLUTION

In 2004, my wife Macel and I watched the election returns until early the next morning. President Bush was reelected (despite apparent manipulation of the early exit polling). Eleven family initiatives passed overwhelmingly in favor of traditional marriage, and opposing same-sex marriage. Unprecedented victories in the Senate and the House strengthened the President’s hand for future congressional action.

Tom Daschle, the Senate Minority Leader who had consistently obstructed President Bush’s efforts to appoint constructionist judges, was defeated. His defeat should serve as a powerful indicator that we have the power to effectively take on politicians who are under the spell of the potent abortion-rights organizations across this nation.

Christian giants like Dr. James Dobson, founder of Focus on the Family, provided energetic and courageous leadership. Dr. Donald Wildmon of the American Family Association, Dr. D. James Kennedy of Coral Ridge Ministries, Dr. John Hagee of Cornerstone Church in San Antonio, the many national leaders of the Arlington Group, the upstart alternative Internet news sites and more than 225,000 evangelical pastors helped turn out the largest electorate ever. And, I repeat, they all voted Christian!!

We must now diligently work to multiply our turnout for the 2006 and 2008 elections.

As national chairman of TMMC, I am committed to lending my influence to help send out at least 40 million evangelical voters in 2008. The thought of a Hillary Clinton or John Edwards presidency is simply unacceptable (and quite frightening).

"FINISH WHAT YOU STARTED 25 YEARS AGO"

Over the past few days, I have been inundated with requests from across America to “finish what you started 25 years ago.”

With more than seven decades now in the rear view mirror, I can honestly say that I feel the leading of the Holy Spirit to answer that call and to once again mobilize people of faith to reclaim this great country as “one nation under God.” My primary “light of the world” calling is to continue serving as pastor of Thomas Road Baptist Church and chancellor of Liberty University.

But I am praying for the strength and wisdom to also successfully complete my “salt of the earth” ministry. America is worth saving. Our children and children’s children will hold us accountable if we fail.

We will be organizing in all 50 states and enlisting and training millions of Americans to become partners in this exciting task of bringing this nation back to the moral values of faith and family on which it was founded. My National Liberty Journal (http://www.nljonline.com/) newspaper will serve as a springboard for this great effort.

I urge my friends around the country to immediately get involved and join me in this commitment, which is really an investment in America, in our children and in our children’s children.

[ILG]

If you believe that you have to obey Acts 2:38 the UPC way or go to hell, you have to believe JF is in hell. If not, you don't. Pretty simple the way I see it.

[Sheltiedad]

What a riot! Pentecostals are the ones who had a "revelation" as to the what it takes to be saved about 100 years ago... and now we get to judge everyone else who has not had this same revelation and are respecting their heritage by not wavering from the religion that their familes have been in for centuries?

I guarantee that there is not a single person on this forum who had oneness pentecostal relatives more than 100 years ago.. zero, zilch, nada, diddly-squat... yet some make it sound like there is an unbroken line of authority and oneness pentecostals back to the Apostles (yes, I have read the word document that gets passed around).

[Praxeas]

Once again you have not presented a case for why he was not a great Christian leader ... when the consensus among those he even hate him ... acknowledge his contributions to the Christian right
So you are saying your definition of great Christian leader is contributing to the Christian Right, a political movement?

Well I disagree and if you think I have not given MY reasons for why I feel this way then you have not been paying attention, If you think my reasons were not good enough for YOU, then that is fine Dan. You are welcome to your opinion of this man. Seriously, but I was really kinda of surprised someone really believed or considered him a great Christian or solid Christian leader. Seriously, if that is how you and the other Dan feels, that's fine. Don't lose any sleep over the fact that I disagree with you ok?

[SDG]

Another Falwell ministry - The Elim Home:

A resident program involving a stay of eight weeks forms the structure for Elim's program. It is to be clearly understood that the primary help is spiritual in orientation, and the goal is spiritual regeneration resulting in permanent sobriety.
Spiritual restoration is based upon the premise that the chemically-addicted lacks the capacity for self-control and does not have the will-power to break his addiction. Having a degree of desire to find sobriety, and yet having tried unsuccessfully various humanly-conceived remedies, he can only be liberated through the acceptance of divine life thorough Jesus Christ. The biblical description of the result of this transaction is given in 2 Corinthians 5:17, "Therefore, if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature; old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." The plan is, "...Not I, but Christ liveth in me" (Gal. 2:20).
Physical, psychological, and emotional complications stemming from alcohol and drug addiction are usually alleviated or brought under control "coincidentally" with spiritual regeneration. No medical or psychotherapeutic program is included. Spiritual help is offered by means of a self study Bible course, group meetings, group and individual counseling, scripture memorization and public worship services at Thomas Road Baptist Church.

No charge is ever made for the program at Elim. Each man is provided a comfortable room, good food, laundry service and linens. A discipline program involving about four hours of work, each weekday, is a vital part of the recovery process and consists of general handiwork, building and grounds maintenance and food service.

[SDG]

So you are saying your definition of great Christian leader is contributing to the Christian Right, a political movement?

Well I disagree and if you think I have not given MY reasons for why I feel this way then you have not been paying attention, If you think my reasons were not good enough for YOU, then that is fine Dan. You are welcome to your opinion of this man. Seriously, but I was really kinda of surprised someone really believed or considered him a great Christian or solid Christian leader. Seriously, if that is how you and the other Dan feels, that's fine. Don't lose any sleep over the fact that I disagree with you ok?

Your first reason was you did'nt think preachers should be involved politically ... imagine if Martin Luther [Reformation], Dr. King and other hadn't been???

What are your other reasons ... he's a cessasionist ... is not enough.

[Praxeas]

Another Falwell ministry - The Elim Home:

A resident program involving a stay of eight weeks forms the structure for Elim's program. It is to be clearly understood that the primary help is spiritual in orientation, and the goal is spiritual regeneration resulting in permanent sobriety.
Spiritual restoration is based upon the premise that the chemically-addicted lacks the capacity for self-control and does not have the will-power to break his addiction. Having a degree of desire to find sobriety, and yet having tried unsuccessfully various humanly-conceived remedies, he can only be liberated through the acceptance of divine life thorough Jesus Christ. The biblical description of the result of this transaction is given in 2 Corinthians 5:17, "Therefore, if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature; old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." The plan is, "...Not I, but Christ liveth in me" (Gal. 2:20).
Physical, psychological, and emotional complications stemming from alcohol and drug addiction are usually alleviated or brought under control "coincidentally" with spiritual regeneration. No medical or psychotherapeutic program is included. Spiritual help is offered by means of a self study Bible course, group meetings, group and individual counseling, scripture memorization and public worship services at Thomas Road Baptist Church.

No charge is ever made for the program at Elim. Each man is provided a comfortable room, good food, laundry service and linens. A discipline program involving about four hours of work, each weekday, is a vital part of the recovery process and consists of general handiwork, building and grounds maintenance and food service.
That's awesome...I don't see how that makes him a great Christian leader.
How many good deeds does one have to do before graduating to great Christian leader? We might all be one here.

But I just don't think of him as being one, never did. maybe I missed the vote...I don't know. Sue me :largehalo

[SDG]

Liberty Godparent Home ... Another Falwell ministry:

Individual Counseling
Decision-making classes that explore both parenting and adoption
Options counseling/Post-plan Management
Family Counseling
Optional counseling for the father of the baby
Outside counseling is available for specialized needs
Educational Options:
Classes are primarily focused on maintaining core requirements for general education through the Accelerated Christian Education curriculum. Most schools accept the accreditation of this type of program.
For participating schools, a homebound educational program is offered.
Tutoring preparation for the GED and SAT exam are available as needed.
College level classes for high school graduates are available through the Distance Learning Program (DLP) at Liberty University.
Medical Care:
Primary medical care is provided by a local OB/GYN facility. While the medical portion of the client’s pregnancy is not covered by LGH, our staff is dedicated to exploring all available options prior to enrolling in the program. All medical payments and insurance arrangements are made directly with the doctor and hospital. Our staff nurse teaches pre-natal and Lamaze classes to our clients. An enclosed heated pool and cardio fitness center is scheduled to be completed very soon for the residents of our home.


Relaxation and Fun:
To combat the stress of an unplanned pregnancy, our staff feels it is essential to offer alternatives to the structure of our program’s regular routine. Some of the past activities include shopping, attending college sporting events, karaoke, spa massages, scrap-booking, weekends at the beach and many more activities. Supporters of the ministry have sponsored many of the excursions.

Housing:
The girls live in a six bedroom house with a very warm and inviting feel. They live together and share two large bathrooms with multiple showers and ample counter space. One or more house parents is always on the premises to provide support, encouragement and direction.

Pre-Natal and Lamaze Classes

Life-Skill Classes

Parenting Classes

Nutrition and Fitness

Adoption Services:
Family Life Services
Family Life Services has operated as a licensed child-placing agency in Lynchburg, Virginia since 1983, working with both residents from the Liberty Godparent Home, as well as other young women throughout Virginia. Services include individual and family counseling, birth mother support groups, confidential and open adoption and much more. Family Life Services places approximately 18 newborn, domestic infants each year into loving, Christian homes.

[Praxeas]

Your first reason was you did'nt think preachers should be involved politically ... imagine if Martin Luther [Reformation], Dr. King and other hadn't been???

What are you're other reasons ... he's a cessasionist ... is not enough.
I DON'T think preachers should be politicans, but where did I say that was MY reason for saying he was not a great Christian leader?

That he is a cessasionist has nothing to do with being a Christian leader. Remember dan I am not saying he was not a Christian nor am I saying he was not a leader.

[Praxeas]

Dan, I don't really care if you or anyone else agrees with me. It's no big deal. It is just my opinion that JF as a Great Christian leader is over rated. I don't need to convince you of that. This is my opinion. lol....

[SDG]

I DON'T think preachers should be politicans, but where did I say that was MY reason for saying he was not a great Christian leader?

That he is a cessasionist has nothing to do with being a Christian leader. Remember dan I am not saying he was not a Christian nor am I saying he was not a leader.

He's just not great in your eyes ....

well your opinion has been processed ... and heard ...

he's still great to millions in the Christian community ....

[Sister Alvear]

The early christians voted in no elections...they confessed they were strangers and pilgrims...that is the road I chose to follow many years ago. It does not seem that God and politics mix very well. (just my opinion)

[Praxeas]

He's just not great in your eyes ....

well your opinion has been processed ... and heard ...

he's still great to millions in the Christian community ....
Dan, that is ALL I have been saying from the beginning...in MY opinion. Good grief. I said from the beginning it's MY opinion :laffatu

[SDG]

Well I thank God ... he's raised up great preachers and Christian leaders to come forward and be voices in the wilderness.... even if means getting involved in the political arena.

men like MLK whose non-violent demonstrations and civil disobedience tactics were based on Christ's teachings ....

men like JF ... who have reminded the legislators, judges and executors of this land that we are a Christian nation ... echoing and celebrating biblical principles such as family values, pro-life, anti-homosexuality, morality, etc.

[Praxeas]

Well I thank God ... he's raised up great preachers and Christian leaders to come forward and be voices in the wilderness....

men like MLK whose non-violent demonstrations and civil disobedience tactics were based on Christ's teachings ....

men like JF ... who hhave reminded the legislators, judges and executors of this land that we a re a Christian nation ... echoing and celebrating biblical principles such as family values, pro-life, anti-homosexuality, morality, etc.
That's great Dan. I think we all need men and women we look to as our leaders.

[SDG]

The early christians voted in no elections...they confessed they were strangers and pilgrims...that is the road I chose to follow many years ago. It does not seem that God and politics mix very well. (just my opinion)

When did this happen??? under the Caesar ... or in early colonial America????

[mizpeh]

The early christians voted in no elections...they confessed they were strangers and pilgrims...that is the road I chose to follow many years ago. It does not seem that God and politics mix very well. (just my opinion)

You're right, Sis Alvear. It led to the Nicene Creed many years ago. :highfive

[SDG]

They didn't vote cause the couldn't

[chosenbyone]

BECAUSE YOU ASKED
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


Though you brought up many of JF's past sins and failures, I know that we all have sinned against God. Now, I never agreed with many of the things he did during his lifetime; however, who am I to judge him?

We should pray for his family and stop bashing the man!

[Rhoni]

BECAUSE YOU ASKED
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


Though you brought up many of JF's past sins and failures, I know that we all have sinned against God. Now, I never agreed with many of the things he did during his lifetime; however, who am I to judge him?

We should pray for his family and stop bashing the man!

:highfive I agree Bro. Chosen.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Scott Hutchinson]

Under imperial Rome Christians couldn't participate in the political process ,while I don't agree with The Kingdom Now teaching ,we should vote and get involved in the poltical process since we live in a country where we can.

[SDG]

No, I was pointing out that he WAFFLED a lot by saying no more politics...just preaching....Im back in politics, no Im not.

Second, Dan, I never said he was NOT a "great leader". I did not consider him a great CHRISTIAN leader. If that is your sacred cow and you feel I stepped on your toes little buddy then forgive me. But for the reasons listed I never did consider him a great or solid Christian leader. He was a very VISIBLE Christian.....he was a very politically active Christian, but I never considered him a great Christian leader.

.....He might be a leader. He might be a visible voice for morality. That does not make the man necessarily a great christian leader.

I DON'T think preachers should be politicans, but where did I say that was MY reason for saying he was not a great Christian leader?

That he is a cessasionist has nothing to do with being a Christian leader. Remember dan I am not saying he was not a Christian nor am I saying he was not a leader.

More Praxeas ... PRETZEL LOGIC ....

He is a great leader? Is he a visible Christian? Is he a leader, christian and even great? The more I read these two quotes ... the more confusing and twisted it becomes

What is it that bothers you ... Prax ??? Stringing it all into one little phrase

Say it w/ me ...

GREAT CHRISTIAN LEADER ....

ONE MORE TIME ....

[Felicity]

So what's the consensus? Jerry Falwell ....... saved or lost?

:)

[Scott Hutchinson]

So what's the consensus? Jerry Falwell ....... saved or lost?

:)

He's in the hands of a just God ,and we'll leave it at that.

[TalkLady]

So what's the consensus? Jerry Falwell ....... saved or lost?

:)

Our opinions don't really mean anything and I certaintly don't care to express mine. :-)

[Scott Hutchinson]

Yes I'm concerned with reaching the living with Acts 2:38 than trying to cast judgement on departed folks.

[Felicity]

No consensus? You mean some think he's lost and some think he's saved and some don't know but ultimately God is the Judge and will make that decision. Has already, I guess, since the man is dead.

Well, what do you know eh?! :D ;)

[MrsMcD]

He's in the hands of a just God ,and we'll leave it at that.

Great Answer!:thumbsup

[Scott Hutchinson]

No consensus? You mean some think he's lost and some think he's saved and some don't know but ultimately God is the Judge and will make that decision. Has already, I guess, since the man is dead.

Well, what do you know eh?! :D ;)

Sometimes people will ask me if their aunt or uncle so and so went to heaven I tell them that are in the hands of a just judge and I leave it at that.

[Scott Hutchinson]

I have found it unwise to argue with people about their departed kin.

[OGIA]

So what's the consensus? Jerry Falwell ....... saved or lost?

:)If all that's been said about his beliefs is true AND he didn't change his views between when he finished breakfast (last time he was seen) and when he died, then he is lost according to God's word.


It blows my mind that some on here who, had they known this man's fate today, would have taken him early this morning, planted him in a chair and preached Acts 2:38 to him lest he go to hell. But, NOW? NOW........they're not so sure he's lost?? How strange!

PLEASE TELL ME -- what happened between you're needing to preach obedience to the Gospel to him yesterday and his death today? Did God change the requirements? Did water baptism in the name of the Lord all of the sudden NOT apply to him? Did the baptism of the Holy Ghost all of the sudden NOT apply to him?

I'm am SOOOO thankful for men who will witness the same truth today as they did yesterday, last week, last year and the first time they saw this truth!

[Praxeas]

Though you brought up many of JF's past sins and failures, I know that we all have sinned against God. Now, I never agreed with many of the things he did during his lifetime; however, who am I to judge him?

We should pray for his family and stop bashing the man!
I wasn't bashing the man nor did I judge him. I simply disagree he is a great or solid Christian leader. Never said he was lost. Never denied he was a great leader or a Christian. I just would not classify him as a great christian leader

[TalkLady]

I've sung this song many times:

"Thank God for the Preacher" who told me of Jesus! (and expounded on what it takes to be saved)

Listen here:
http://www.barb-coolwaters.com/h003/forpreacher.html

[OGIA]

Our opinions don't really mean anything and I certaintly don't care to express mine. :-)They certainly do matter if you know their loved ones who remain believed the same as they did!!

No, it's not going to be easy to reach them now, because to accept this truth they'll have to admit he's lost. It will take the pure wisdom of God for someone to reach them when they've grieved thoroughly enough to even listen to truth.

I've got the same situation with my wife who lost her brother 10 years ago. I find it more imperative now to try to reach her and her parents. What I know tells me that they are LOST, and if they DIE THAT WAY they will STAY that way.

Yes, our opinions DO matter! If I don't believe JF was lost, why would I feel compelled to go reach for the man dying of cancer or AIDS?? I could just give it the ol' "it's in God's hands" attitude, but I don't think God would be too happy about that.

[Praxeas]

No consensus? You mean some think he's lost and some think he's saved and some don't know but ultimately God is the Judge and will make that decision. Has already, I guess, since the man is dead.

Well, what do you know eh?! :D ;)
Very few here actually commented about the man's salvation. In actuallity, despite what others tried to make it, it was just an expression of our opinions as to what status he had while here. Some sadly took it too personally. Oh well

[TalkLady]

They certainly do matter if you know their loved ones who remain believed the same as they did!!

No, it's not going to be easy to reach them now, because they'll have to admit he's lost. It will take the wisdom of God for someone to reach them when they've grieved thoroughly enough to even listen to truth.

I've got the same situation with my wife who lost her brother 10 years ago. I find it more imperative now to try to reach her and her parents. What I know tells me that they are LOST, and if they DIE THAT WAY they will STAY that way.

Yes, our opinions DO matter! If I don't believe JF was lost, why would I feel compelled to go reach for the man dying of cancer or AIDS?? I could just give it the ol' "it's in God's hands" attitude, but I don't think God would be too happy about that.

I meant that our opinions DO not matter as far as whether he is in Heaven or Hell.

[Ferd]

Put 'em in heaven, but GOD FORBID anyone put 'em in hell!!!


I can't believe people won't make a statement that someone was lost.

OG, is it our job to put him in hell? The man is dead and has faced God without knowing the Truth. and you are kicking the corps.


lets get this part real clear. YOU cant preach ANY Gospel to Mr Falwell. He is dead and YOU are kicking his corps. that is bad form dude. There is no longer a question about mans destiny. but YOU are hacking away at a dead body. for what? do you feel better? Proud of yourself? make you more confident in your salvation?

IT IS A DEAD BODY DUDE!


dont speak ill of the dead. it is bad form.

[Scott Hutchinson]

OGIA here's the thing and yes it matters what one believes.
Suppose you are trying to reach folks who are not very grounded in the word ,and they have just lost a loved one wouldn't it be better to use tact , and try to use wisdom to reach these folks ,in time if they get grounded they'll come to ubderstand things.

[berkeley]

OH give me a break! I didnt say a leader in the Apostolic bless God we are the only ones saved way!

I said Christian Leader...and that he was!!!!!

Wake up guys...we have truth but we are not the only ones allowed the label of Christian!

Are you refering to me as "this guy"?
If you are using "christian" in a generic way, then I agree with you.

[OGIA]

dont speak ill of the dead. it is bad form.I am not speaking ill of the dead. I'm speaking of what he believed, what I know to be truth and what the word of God says will happen to those who don't obey Him. Simple, ferd.


OG, is it our job to put him in hell? No, and I didn't.

Question, Ferd: is it your job to know what will send someone to hell? If so, what do you do with that info? If not, I'm skeered!


lets get this part real clear. YOU cant preach ANY Gospel to Mr Falwell. He is dead and YOU are kicking his corps. that is bad form dude. There is no longer a question about mans destiny. but YOU are hacking away at a dead body. for what? do you feel better? Proud of yourself? make you more confident in your salvation?

IT IS A DEAD BODY DUDE! Again, I am not kicking the corpsE! It was asked was he saved or lost. I answered and gave my two cents about its implications in OUR lives. Simple. No corpsE kicking. The man's dead and gone. I pray his family finds and obeys truth before they are, too!

[Ferd]

I am not speaking ill of the dead. I'm speaking of what he believed, what I know to be truth and what the word of God says will happen to those who don't obey Him. Simple, ferd.


No, and I didn't.

Question, Ferd: is it your job to know what will send someone to hell? If so, what do you do with that info? If not, I'm skeered!


Again, I am not kicking the corpsE! It was asked was he saved or lost. I answered and gave my two cents about its implications in OUR lives. Simple. No corpsE kicking. The man's dead and gone. I pray his family finds and obeys truth before they are, too!

corps kicker.

[Ferd]

hacker uper of dead bodies.

[Scott Hutchinson]

Let's pray that Falwell's family finds truth.

[Ferd]

ill speaker of the dead.

[Ferd]

and no. I am not joking or making fun or being silly. I am speaking truth and a lot of other people agree.


preach truth to the living. leave the dead alone.

[Felicity]

If all that's been said about his beliefs is true AND he didn't change his views between when he finished breakfast (last time he was seen) and when he died, then he is lost according to God's word.


It blows my mind that some on here who, had they known this man's fate today, would have taken him early this morning, planted him in a chair and preached Acts 2:38 to him lest he go to hell. But, NOW? NOW........they're not so sure he's lost?? How strange!

PLEASE TELL ME -- what happened between you're needing to preach obedience to the Gospel to him yesterday and his death today? Did God change the requirements? Did water baptism in the name of the Lord all of the sudden NOT apply to him? Did the baptism of the Holy Ghost all of the sudden NOT apply to him?

I'm am SOOOO thankful for men who will witness the same truth today as they did yesterday, last week, last year and the first time they saw this truth!It's not strange to me at all and I've addressed this contradiction over and over and over again. :)

[OGIA]

Suppose you are trying to reach folks who are not very grounded in the word ,and they have just lost a loved one wouldn't it be better to use tact , and try to use wisdom to reach these folks ,in time if they get grounded they'll come to ubderstand things.
It is absolutely best to use God's tact. I call is wisdom, discernment, understanding and knowledge. They all come from the Holy Ghost. I pray for it frequently in dealing with my wife who's brother was killed 10 years ago. I believe him to be lost because he never obeyed the Gospel. If she ever comes to believe and accept this truth, she will also have to admit he is lost. It will take God to do that one, friend! I can only pray to submit to His leading so I don't mess it up royally!

[Ferd]

Let's pray that Falwell's family finds truth.

Amen brother Scott!

[Scott Hutchinson]

ill speaker of the dead.

There's one word about the dead I hope you don't use cause if you do I'll get sick.

[Scott Hutchinson]

OGIA I admire you're zeal ,the sword has two edges it can heal or it destroy dependent on how it's used.

[Felicity]

OGIA here's the thing and yes it matters what one believes.
Suppose you are trying to reach folks who are not very grounded in the word ,and they have just lost a loved one wouldn't it be better to use tact , and try to use wisdom to reach these folks ,in time if they get grounded they'll come to ubderstand things.A lot of preachers take the opportunity to preach the Gospel at funerals so that the relatives, if they're unsaved, have the opportunity to hear the truth and how they can be sure of their own eternal destiny if they want to escape hell.

[Steve Epley]

He died lost his destination is up to God!
I would want to take his chances I would say they are slim to none.
God the judge of all will judge him.

[Scott Hutchinson]

A lot of preachers take the opportunity to preach the Gospel at funerals so that the relatives, if they're unsaved, have the opportunity to hear the truth and how they can be sure of their own eternal destiny if they want to escape hell.

I'm for trying reach the lost anyway we can but I'm also for using wisdom and tact.

[OGIA]

corps kicker.

hacker uper of dead bodies.

ill speaker of the dead.

and no. I am not joking or making fun or being silly. I am speaking truth and a lot of other people agree.

preach truth to the living. leave the dead alone.Not worth replying to more than once.

[Ferd]

A lot of preachers take the opportunity to preach the Gospel at funerals so that the relatives, if they're unsaved, have the opportunity to hear the truth and how they can be sure of their own eternal destiny if they want to escape hell.

I did that one time. I think it can and should be done. but you dont start out with "your loved one is now in hell. REPENT" especially when they were a committed christian. that would just make everyone mad....

now if they were a rank sinner, and the family wanted you to preach that, well that would be entirely different.... I suppose.

[Ferd]

Not worth replying to more than once.

well, if you just stop kicking the dead guy, and repent, you wont have to.

[Felicity]

I did that one time. I think it can and should be done. but you dont start out with "your loved one is now in hell. REPENT" especially when they were a committed christian. that would just make everyone mad....

now if they were a rank sinner, and the family wanted you to preach that, well that would be entirely different.... I suppose. I agree with the bolded part Ferd. :)

[Ferd]

He died lost his destination is up to God!
I would want to take his chances I would say they are slim to none.
God the judge of all will judge him.

Clearly this is truth. it is always good to measure truth with a little compassion.

[OGIA]

A lot of preachers take the opportunity to preach the Gospel at funerals so that the relatives, if they're unsaved, have the opportunity to hear the truth and how they can be sure of their own eternal destiny if they want to escape hell.I don't agree with this at all.

[SDG]

C'mon choir ...

"When we all get to heaven ...."

[Felicity]

I'm for trying reach the lost anyway we can but I'm also for using wisdom and tact."Be wise as serpents and harmless as doves." Who said that anyways? ;)

[Felicity]

C'mon choir ...

"When we all get to heaven ...."What a day of rejoicing that will be!

[Whole Hearted]

Old Paths.....Definition of Christian is being Christ like.
I venture to say that Jerry Falwell in life was more of the defintion of what a true Christian is then the trash you have spoken on this thread.
IF you actually are passing judgement on JF as being a baptist and then to insinuate "wonder what he thinks now" = he is in hell.
YOU Sir are NO Christian! PERIOD!

:crazy :crazy

Old paths is one of the Godliest men I know and a great Christian.

[OGIA]

well, if you just stop kicking the dead guy, and repent, you wont have to.Got nothing to repent over, Ferd. You're the one that keeps resurrecting the dead.

[Felicity]

I don't agree with this at all.Why? You don't think a preacher should share the Gospel message at a funeral? I do.


That's not the primary responsibility nor should it be the focus of the message. The message is to be to the family to provide comfort, but it can also be instructive and should be in my opinion.

[SDG]

Why? You don't think a preacher should share the Gospel message at a funeral?

I do. That's not the primary responsibilty nor should it be the focus of the message. The message is to be to the family to provide comfort but it can also be instructive and should be in my opinion.

My dad loved to preach the Gospel at funerals.

[berkeley]

We know what we know and have to preach such! I'd never be comfortable putting someone with a face into hell. It's always on generic terms.

[Scott Hutchinson]

"Be wise as serpents and harmless as doves." Who said that anyways? ;)

The Soverign over The Church.

[OGIA]

Why? You don't think a preacher should share the Gospel message at a funeral?

I do. That's not the primary responsibilty nor should it be the focus of the message. The message is to be to the family to provide comfort but it can also be instructive and should be in my opinion.I guess I should have added a disclaimer. I think the Holy Ghost has to be the director here. Witnessing in general can be done without God telling me what and how to do it. I know that much. But, in sensitive situations, as Scott said, there must be wisdom and only that God gives. Otherwise, I think much damage can be done. And, certainly, that doesn't apply just to that situation. As I've said, my situation with my wife is just as sensitive.

[Felicity]

My dad loved to preach the Gospel at funerals.Sure. I don't think there's ever been a funeral where my husband hasn't shared the Gospel with those attending.

Many of those who die "in the Lord" would be glad to know that the pastor did that. They want their families to be saved!

[TalkLady]

Ecclesiastes 3 1-7
1. To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

2. A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

3. A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

4. A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

5. A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

6. A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;

7. A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak.

I've been asked by people as to whether or not "I thought" their loved ones were lost or saved. The best answer that I can give is that their loved ones are in the hands of a just God.........And then LATER to discuss doctrine. I'm not saying don't express your opinion or THE FACTS of the Word of God, but there is time and place. I think SILENCE is and studying to be quiet and meek and GENTLENESS are way "Under-used"....

[Felicity]

I guess I should have added a disclaimer. I think the Holy Ghost has to be the director here. Witnessing in general can be done without God telling me what and how to do it. I know that much. But, in sensitive situations, as Scott said, there must be wisdom and only that God gives. Otherwise, I think much damage can be done. And, certainly, that doesn't apply just to that situation. As I've said, my situation with my wife is just as sensitive. Well with wisdom of course. I figured that would be taken for granted. ;)

I think most pastors are very sensitive in regard to this and careful in what they say and how they present it. If they aren't they should be and if they aren't somebody should be kind enough to take the time to tell them that wisdom, tact and kindness should dictate what they say and how they say it.

We should always be sensitive to the leading of the Holy Ghost. In EVERY situation. I definitely believe that. Of course. :)

[Whole Hearted]

Put 'em in heaven, but GOD FORBID anyone put 'em in hell!!!


I can't believe people won't make a statement that someone was lost.

:thumbsup

[Scott Hutchinson]

Only in the south , but here in AL. there was a funeral and someone went to it and cried out they are in hell.
It made the papers and media in Mobile.

[Felicity]

As far as Jerry Falwell, I've never been a big fan as far as that goes. It makes no difference to anything what I do or don't think about him of course.

I haven't read through this thread so I don't know what all has and hasn't been said about him or his spiritual condition.

But I do know that God is just and that His judgment is perfectly righteous. I'm SO glad I know that! :)

[Whole Hearted]

What is there to dodge?

Listen, I grieve for the man...and pray for his family. How can you attack OP with such vehemence, even saying he's not a christian????

Do you believe the salvation message of the church you attend??? If so then you should lament Jerry Falwell's stance, too. He was dead set against anyone who spoke with tongues. He refuted the doctrines you claim to preach.

So, what do you really believe???? That he's in heaven?

I know that there are many here who believe Falwell is in heaven and that is consistent with what they believe. It's your attack on OP that has me puzzled.

By the way, I don't rejoice at Falwell's demise. Neither do I pretend he was a great christian leader....or saved. I am deeply saddened by that, too.

Amen brother Good Post.

[Hoovie]

No consensus? You mean some think he's lost and some think he's saved and some don't know but ultimately God is the Judge and will make that decision. Has already, I guess, since the man is dead.

Well, what do you know eh?! :D ;)

Fact is there are some that fear he may be saved and are dealing with how to reconcile it with their theology.

Did I just say that?:nod

[Steve Epley]

Has anyone seen Elder EPLEY?

Where O where is Bishop EPLEY when we need him the MOST?

Has he abandoned his post of duty HERE???

I was at church preaching the ONE and ONLY plan of salvation that Jerry Falwell dispised he was a lying false prophet and now he is dead.

[Steve Epley]

Old Paths.....Definition of Christian is being Christ like.
I venture to say that Jerry Falwell in life was more of the defintion of what a true Christian is then the trash you have spoken on this thread.
IF you actually are passing judgement on JF as being a baptist and then to insinuate "wonder what he thinks now" = he is in hell.
YOU Sir are NO Christian! PERIOD!

And you Sir are a Baptist I guess you CANNOT believe the Apostolic message and believe Falwell is a Christian.

[berkeley]

We know what we know and have to preach such! I'd never be comfortable putting someone with a face into hell. It's always on generic terms.

I was at church preaching the ONE and ONLY plan of salvation that Jerry Falwell dispised he was a lying false prophet and now he is dead.

kinda rough there Epley.. I thought the gentler side of you would agree with me. :)

[Steve Epley]

You missed the whole point!
The BIBLE will dictate if he is in heaven...the Bible will dictate where he stands in God.

IT BOILS me when some sanctimonious man tries to say..."yup...that another Baptist in hell"!

Let the Lord be the judge....he didnt need that rabid ultra con stuff then and does not need it now.

In my way of thinking..I KNOW HOW TO BE SAVED.....in my way of judging....Ill leave that up to a just God...but it will NEVER cross my lips.

Who said another Baptist went to Hell??? However Dr.Falwell died lost IF what we preach is right. YOU claimed to believe the new birth but honestly do YOU believe anything is my question?

[Steve Epley]

What a riot! Pentecostals are the ones who had a "revelation" as to the what it takes to be saved about 100 years ago... and now we get to judge everyone else who has not had this same revelation and are respecting their heritage by not wavering from the religion that their familes have been in for centuries?

I guarantee that there is not a single person on this forum who had oneness pentecostal relatives more than 100 years ago.. zero, zilch, nada, diddly-squat... yet some make it sound like there is an unbroken line of authority and oneness pentecostals back to the Apostles (yes, I have read the word document that gets passed around).

Thus saith the historian!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tv1a]

It all depends on how you define godly.

:crazy :crazy

Old paths is one of the Godliest men I know and a great Christian.

[NLYP]

He died lost his destination is up to God!
I would want to take his chances I would say they are slim to none.
God the judge of all will judge him.

And thank God what you would say does not amount to a pile of..............
......................Is there a "poop" little smiley?

[Ferd]

Got nothing to repent over, Ferd. You're the one that keeps resurrecting the dead.

im resurecting no one. just not kicking the corps. but I must say, youve done a good job.

[SDG]

And thank God what you would say does not amount to a pile of..............
......................Is there a "poop" little smily?

It gets better Dan the Baptist ... read on.

[burnedtoo]

Some things in this thread are disgraceful at this time, regardless of whether they are true or not. The man just died today. Hours ago! Can't some of you have a little more decency and respect for the friends and family members? Do you not realize how these posts get picked up by search engines?

Had anything remotely similar been stated by someone on the thread for Jean Urshan, how long would it have taken to shut down that type of talk? But it is okay because JF was Baptist?

I was not a "fan" of the man but for goodness sake, can we have a little decency on the very day he died?

[Steve Epley]

And thank God what you would say does not amount to a pile of..............
......................Is there a "poop" little smily?

How about "If OUR gospel be hid it is hid to them that are lost?"

Paul said that. Or try this one:

"Though we or an angel from Heaven(much less a Baptist from Lynchburg)preach any other gospel let him be accursed"

I realize what Paul says does not mean much to you but there it is.

[SDG]

Some things in this thread are disgraceful at this time, regardless of whether they are true or not. The man just died today. Hours ago! Can't some of you have a little more decency and respect for the friends and family members? Do you not realize how these posts get picked up by search engines?

Had anything remotely similar been stated by someone on the thread for Jean Urshan, how long would it have taken to shut down that type of talk? But it is okay because JF was Baptist?

I was not a "fan" of the man but for goodness sake, can we have a little decency on the very day he died?

I was thinking the same thing ... no one would tolerated if this type of talk would have surrounded sister Urshan ...