Blackface

[Hoovie]

I would like some help understanding Blackface.

How is it viewed today?

How should it be viewed?

What about collecting Blackface art or Music? Is this taboo?

One reason I ask...

I had some mixed race tenants - she was white and he was black. They seemed to have a rather large collection of Blackface art. I had a piece of art when we got married that my wife threw away because she said it may be offensive to some. Lord knows that was not my intent - so I said OK.

More recently I watched some very talented Blackface dancing/music on You Tube from maybe the 50's.

These are serious questions and I would like to have input from anyone, but, especially from my black brothers and sisters on AFF.

I understand some of the Blackface history but i really have no clue concerning current thoughts and feelings.

[Hoovie]

The reason I am thinking of this now is because a comedian is taking flack for doiung an Obama impersonation in Germany.

[Cindy]

I think it's up to the individual. If I was black, I probably wouldn't want to see a white person doing blackface. I think it denotes slavery. And like the lawn jockeys and Aunt Jemima are no longer used.

[pelathais]

I would like some help understanding Blackface.

How is it viewed today?

How should it be viewed?

What about collecting Blackface art or Music? Is this taboo?

One reason I ask...

I had some mixed race tenants - she was white and he was black. They seemed to have a rather large collection of Blackface art. I had a piece of art when we got married that my wife threw away because she said it may be offensive to some. Lord knows that was not my intent - so I said OK.

More recently I watched some very talented Blackface dancing/music on You Tube from maybe the 50's.

These are serious questions and I would like to have input from anyone, but, especially from my black brothers and sisters on AFF.

I understand some of the Blackface history but i really have no clue concerning current thoughts and feelings.

I think that the whole "Black Face" thing arose because "Black" music and singing styles were so popular amongst "White" audiences, but Blacks were forbidden to perform in White venues. So, daring White artists introduced these forms of music by "imitating" the Black artists in the Vaudeville halls.

As far as I've been able to see, it wasn't intended originally to be racist; it was intended to be a form of rebellion against segregation. Later of course, the rise of the "Black Face" comedians (Opie & Andy, etc.) and when cartoons came into being, images that are more disturbing to us today were produced "for laughs."

I suppose it's important to point out that ALL races were subject to this "abuse," however, so a case might be made that it wasn't intended to be "racist" either. The Japanese and other Asians suffered at the hands of comedians and cartoonists and this caused a great deal of offense in those communities.

But, why haven't "White men" risen in protest over their portrayal? Homer Simpson and Peter Griffith consistently get a free pass to mock "white guys."

I suppose it's a difficult subject. I'm not comfortable with much of it, but then again, I don't hold myself up as the paragon of cultural sensitivity either. If I see someone else's face fallen or other signs of hurt over these images, then I feel badly. Not so much because of the image, but because of their affect on others.

... just imho, as always.

[Dedicated Mind]

I think that the whole "Black Face" thing arose because "Black" music and singing styles were so popular amongst "White" audiences, but Blacks were forbidden to perform in White venues. So, daring White artists introduced these forms of music by "imitating" the Black artists in the Vaudeville halls.

As far as I've been able to see, it wasn't intended originally to be racist; it was intended to be a form of rebellion against segregation. Later of course, the rise of the "Black Face" comedians (Opie & Andy, etc.) and when cartoons came into being, images that are more disturbing to us today were produced "for laughs."

I suppose it's important to point out that ALL races were subject to this "abuse," however, so a case might be made that it wasn't intended to be "racist" either. The Japanese and other Asians suffered at the hands of comedians and cartoonists and this caused a great deal of offense in those communities.

But, why haven't "White men" risen in protest over their portrayal? Homer Simpson and Peter Griffith consistently get a free pass to mock "white guys."

I suppose it's a difficult subject. I'm not comfortable with much of it, but then again, I don't hold myself up as the paragon of cultural sensitivity either. If I see someone else's face fallen or other signs of hurt over these images, then I feel badly. Not so much because of the image, but because of their affect on others.

... just imho, as always.

homer simpson is white? doesn't his wife and bart have a fro?

[canam]

The reason I am thinking of this now is because a comedian is taking flack for doiung an Obama impersonation in Germany.

Ya but its ok for Irish to be portrayed as drunks and no one cares least of all the Irish, people need to get over themselves, if ya wanna find racism you will if ya dont ya probably wont, no matter your race..

[houston]

homer simpson is white? doesn't his wife and bart have a fro?

No. The wife does the oatmeal box thing.

[houston]

Griffin... Peter Griffin.

[Jermyn Davidson]

From what I know about "blackface", there was NEVER anything really positive about it. I read that it started from the beginining as white folks portraying blacks as buffoons and became even more demeaning when black folks put on on white face and then put on black face to depict blacks as idiots.

The whole history of it is disturbing.

You would be hard pressed to have me say anything good about that part of our history.

It is best left alone to disappear.



Then again, as some black folks have assumed "ownership" of the "n-word", they have taken a word so hateful and demeaning and turned it into a term of endearment-- a term I purposely go out oy my way to not use.

But what an example of turning yesterday's lemons into today's lemon ade!


Can the same thing happen with blackface?

Maybe, I'm just not sure I want it to. It's so insulting and it is painful to even think about the country I love with the past she has.

[Jermyn Davidson]

There are other examples of symbols of pain and misery becoming something embraced and revered.

Read Galatians 3:13.

[Hoovie]

Jermyn, I greatly appreciate you thoughts here. Thank you very much!

[pelathais]

Griffin... Peter Griffin.

thank you. They never show his name in the Closed Captioning, or at least rarely; so I can't quite make out all of the consonant stops. To top it off, you can't read the lips of the cartoon characters either. What's with that? If they took a little more time with it, hired vast studios of Korean artists, then they could produce something that makes sense.

[pelathais]

From what I know about "blackface", there was NEVER anything really positive about it. I read that it started from the beginining as white folks portraying blacks as buffoons and became even more demeaning when black folks put on on white face and then put on black face to depict blacks as idiots.

The whole history of it is disturbing.

You would be hard pressed to have me say anything good about that part of our history.

It is best left alone to disappear.



Then again, as some black folks have assumed "ownership" of the "n-word", they have taken a word so hateful and demeaning and turned it into a term of endearment-- a term I purposely go out oy my way to not use.

But what an example of turning yesterday's lemons into today's lemon ade!


Can the same thing happen with blackface?

Maybe, I'm just not sure I want it to. It's so insulting and it is painful to even think about the country I love with the past she has.

It was racist, however, from what I have read, at the start - it was a way to try and get "Black" music into "White" Vaudeville halls. Blacks were banned from performing - even in most Northern venues. Yet, there was a tremendous demand for "Black" musical styles. Most of the 19th century street car lines had legs that were planned specifically to go to "Black" entertainment districts where "Whites" congregated in large numbers to hear Jazz and other types of music (I'm thinking specifically of the old "Five Points" street car line in Denver. To this day, clubs, bars and musical venues line that now defunct route).

Seeing so many patrons hoping a street car and going to other parts of town (and spending their money elsewhere) led to "White" performers who respected and appreciated the Black music to don "black face" and to imitate that sound. This would have been even before Al Jolson and company.

Later, of course, the cruelty and mockery of "comedy" acts took over. No race was spared. To be fair, whites suffered from the abuse as well - and always have. Particularly downtrodden groups like the Irish, and later, the Poles.

[canam]

Everyone makes fun of someone !