View Full Version : "Timmy, you don't deserve to live."
Timmy
09-23-2011, 06:10 AM
Would you say that to my face? In particular, everyone who voted "True" in the "Timmy deserves to die (http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=36879)" poll:
berkeley, canam, deafdriscoll, deltaguitar, Digging4Truth, Ferd, Hoovie, Monterrey, On The Wheel, pelathais, Praxeas, Pressing-On, RandyWayne, TJJJ, Whoop Harted
You can't try to tell me the statements are not equivalent. If I deserve to die, I do not deserve to live. It's Bible. Embrace it! Tell me to my face: "Timmy, you don't deserve to live."
Sarah
09-23-2011, 06:34 AM
Would you say that to my face? In particular, everyone who voted "True" in the "Timmy deserves to die (http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=36879)" poll:
berkeley, canam, deafdriscoll, deltaguitar, Digging4Truth, Ferd, Hoovie, Monterrey, On The Wheel, pelathais, Praxeas, Pressing-On, RandyWayne, TJJJ, Whoop Harted
You can't try to tell me the statements are not equivalent. If I deserve to die, I do not deserve to live. It's Bible. Embrace it! Tell me to my face: "Timmy, you don't deserve to live."
Timmy, are you talking about in this life, now....or in the life to come? Guess I'm a little confused.
Timmy
09-23-2011, 06:41 AM
Timmy, are you talking about in this life, now....or in the life to come? Guess I'm a little confused.
Is the Bible confusing? ;) All have sinned. The wages of sin is death. Man's righteousness is filthy rags. Etc. The statement "Timmy deserves to die" is true to 15 voters, and false to only 8.
Amanah
09-23-2011, 06:48 AM
Is the Bible confusing? ;) All have sinned. The wages of sin is death. Man's righteousness is filthy rags. Etc. The statement "Timmy deserves to die" is true to 15 voters, and false to only 8.
well since we are on a Christian forum, you would think that I would have considered the question in the light of scripture. I actually was considering it in the light of our legal system which was why I asked if you commited murder.
we all deserve death as you said, but we have an advocate in Jesus Christ the Righteous.
So Timmy, you deserve to die, but praise God, you don't have to. :dogpat
Timmy
09-23-2011, 06:54 AM
. . .
So Timmy, you deserve to die, . . .
That's not exactly what the poll asked. Would you tell me to my face:
"Timmy, you don't deserve to live."
It means the same thing, of course, but, I dunno, this wording just brings it home a bit stronger. E.g., suppose I'm depressed. Suppose I'm on top of a 50-story building. Suppose I asked you "Do I deserve t live?" Would you tell me the Bible truth?
Sarah
09-23-2011, 07:31 AM
That's not exactly what the poll asked. Would you tell me to my face:
"Timmy, you don't deserve to live."
It means the same thing, of course, but, I dunno, this wording just brings it home a bit stronger. E.g., suppose I'm depressed. Suppose I'm on top of a 50-story building. Suppose I asked you "Do I deserve t live?" Would you tell me the Bible truth?
Ahhhh....so you do mean 'in this life now'....
In that case, yes, I do believe you deserve to live...just get some help!
Jesus is the answer, Timmy....and down deep, I suppose you know that!
Timmy
09-23-2011, 07:52 AM
Ahhhh....so you do mean 'in this life now'....
In that case, yes, I do believe you deserve to live...just get some help!
Jesus is the answer, Timmy....and down deep, I suppose you know that!
Or maybe deep inside, you know He is not. :dunno
Timmy
09-23-2011, 07:59 AM
Ahhhh....so you do mean 'in this life now'....
In that case, yes, I do believe you deserve to live...
Thanks for saying that. I believe it, too. But is it true? Is the Bible true? Does it say I deserve to live, here and now? Does it say I deserve anything at all?
The roof story was hypothetical. But suppose I did kill myself, and I did not believe in Jesus. You might be sad that I didn't accept God's gift of eternal life, but you would have to say I got the afterlife that I deserved. God's justice would see to that. Right?
Amanah
09-23-2011, 08:05 AM
OMG Timmy, I love you, Jesus loves you, don't jump!
Steve Epley
09-23-2011, 08:17 AM
EVERYONE including Timmy and most of all myself deserve to die for our sins, however Jesus died for my sins that I don't have to. He was my substitute when by faith I obeyed the gospel my sins and the consequences of my sins incuding death was placed on Him.
Timmy
09-23-2011, 08:22 AM
OMG Timmy, I love you, Jesus loves you, don't jump!
OK! You talked me down! :heeheehee
Timmy
09-23-2011, 08:24 AM
OK! You talked me down! :heeheehee
(To the 45th floor window. :toofunny)
Timmy
09-23-2011, 08:24 AM
EVERYONE including Timmy and most of all myself deserve to die for our sins, however Jesus died for my sins that I don't have to. He was my substitute when by faith I obeyed the gospel my sins and the consequences of my sins incuding death was placed on Him.
Most of all yourself? :lol
Pressing-On
09-23-2011, 08:25 AM
Would you say that to my face? In particular, everyone who voted "True" in the "Timmy deserves to die (http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=36879)" poll:
berkeley, canam, deafdriscoll, deltaguitar, Digging4Truth, Ferd, Hoovie, Monterrey, On The Wheel, pelathais, Praxeas, Pressing-On, RandyWayne, TJJJ, Whoop Harted
You can't try to tell me the statements are not equivalent. If I deserve to die, I do not deserve to live. It's Bible. Embrace it! Tell me to my face: "Timmy, you don't deserve to live."
Timmy,
Your two threads are not speaking of the same thing at all. You wanted us to respond to your fate, where you now stand, for eternal life and according to the scriptures we did that.
Saying you don't deserve to live, today, is not an eternal life question.
If you want us to doubt the validity of God, His Spirit and His Word, it's not going to happen. "For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain." Philippians 1:21. Either way is a good day for me.
I think you like yanking chains. LOL!
Timmy
09-23-2011, 08:27 AM
Timmy,
Your two threads are not speaking of the same thing at all. You wanted us to respond to your fate, where you now stand, for eternal life and according to the scriptures we did that.
Saying you don't deserve to live, today, is not an eternal life question.
If you want us to doubt the validity of God, His Spirit and His Word, it's not going to happen. "For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain." Philippians 1:21. Either way is a good day for me.
I think you like yanking chains. LOL!
I like coercing people into thinking about what they say they believe, and the consequences thereof. :D
Pressing-On
09-23-2011, 08:27 AM
(To the 45th floor window. :toofunny)
If I was going to jump, I'd go higher. Might as well act like Superman while you're at it. :heeheehee
Pressing-On
09-23-2011, 08:31 AM
I like coercing people into thinking about what they say they believe, and the consequences thereof. :D
It's very apparent that is where you find your mojo. You probably also thoroughly enjoy the Macarena too, huh? :heeheehee
Timmy
09-23-2011, 08:32 AM
It's very apparent that is where you find your mojo. You probably also thoroughly enjoy the Macarena too, huh? :heeheehee
What. Doesn't everybody? :lol
Pressing-On
09-23-2011, 08:34 AM
What. Doesn't everybody? :lol
No, Brother Epley wouldn't. :heeheehee
Timmy
09-23-2011, 08:39 AM
No, Brother Epley wouldn't. :heeheehee
:spit
Pressing-On
09-23-2011, 08:57 AM
:spit
Do you know the lyrics? :whistle
Timmy
09-23-2011, 09:07 AM
Do you know the lyrics? :whistle
No, but I sing along anyway. :lol
Pressing-On
09-23-2011, 09:08 AM
No, but I sing along anyway. :lol
That's what I thought. Neither do a lot people dancing to it. :toofunny
of course I would say it to your face. I thought I already did?
Yes...just like me.... but we wont... until we do...
I gotta a nice dose of New Wine for ya Timmay!
I like coercing people into thinking about what they say they believe, and the consequences thereof. :D
but I dont understand what this thread has to do with that?
The concept that we all deserve to die is the basic starting point.
All has sinned and the wages of sin is death... but the gift of God is eternal life.
Every Christian who has any clue at all should be able to say without reservation that we all deserve death. But what we deserve is not what God wants. and he paid our price.
Sarah
09-23-2011, 09:28 AM
but I dont understand what this thread has to do with that?
The concept that we all deserve to die is the basic starting point.
All has sinned and the wages of sin is death... but the gift of God is eternal life.
Every Christian who has any clue at all should be able to say without reservation that we all deserve death. But what we deserve is not what God wants. and he paid our price.
Yes....amen!
Sometimes Timmy is hard to figure out. (But I do think he is a nice guy).
If he knew he was going to die in the, say, next hour...I don't believe there would be an agnostic bone in his body!
Did you notice when speaking of Jesus, he capitalized 'He'? In the middle of a sentence. Little things like that say something....
Timmy
09-23-2011, 09:29 AM
but I dont understand what this thread has to do with that?
The concept that we all deserve to die is the basic starting point.
All has sinned and the wages of sin is death... but the gift of God is eternal life.
Every Christian who has any clue at all should be able to say without reservation that we all deserve death. But what we deserve is not what God wants. and he paid our price.
You're right about that. Christians are supposed to believe that everyone deserves to die. People who don't believe that might think it's a pretty ugly thing to say. I do. But that's me.
Timmy
09-23-2011, 09:30 AM
Yes....amen!
Sometimes Timmy is hard to figure out. (But I do think he is a nice guy).
If he knew he was going to die in the, say, next hour...I don't believe there would be an agnostic bone in his body!
Did you notice when speaking of Jesus, he capitalized 'He'? In the middle of a sentence. Little things like that say something....
...like I'm being respectful of you guys. :)
Sarah
09-23-2011, 09:32 AM
...like I'm being respectful of you guys. :)
You are always respectful...
Just don't wait too late, Tim....for you and yours.
You're right about that. Christians are supposed to believe that everyone deserves to die. People who don't believe that might think it's a pretty ugly thing to say. I do. But that's me.
Timmy it is my humbe opinion that it is ugly to say such a thing from the standpoint of "Im saved and you arent".
I dont think it is ugly to point out that we are all deserving of the same fate.
Timmy
09-23-2011, 10:56 AM
Timmy it is my humbe opinion that it is ugly to say such a thing from the standpoint of "Im saved and you arent".
I dont think it is ugly to point out that we are all deserving of the same fate.
But you are saved and I'm not!
But you are saved and I'm not!
that doesnt make me deserving of avoiding the wages of sin...
and dont forget what Paul said.
Romans 12:3 (Whole Chapter)
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
In other words, saved folks should not be uppity because God gives every person enough faith to find salvation.
johnny44
09-23-2011, 11:05 AM
OK! You talked me down! :heeheeheeBlessed in the eyes of the LORD is the death of his Saints.
Timmy
09-23-2011, 11:22 AM
that doesnt make me deserving of avoiding the wages of sin...
and dont forget what Paul said.
Romans 12:3 (Whole Chapter)
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
In other words, saved folks should not be uppity because God gives every person enough faith to find salvation.
Good point. And you're not, by the way. I was just sayin'. :)
Good point. And you're not, by the way. I was just sayin'. :)
well, I will agree that far far far too often Christians can come accross as "nanana boo boo im saved you arent" and that is tragic and a result of poor teaching. It aint Christian in the very real since of the term.
Pressing-On
09-23-2011, 12:44 PM
that doesnt make me deserving of avoiding the wages of sin...
and dont forget what Paul said.
Romans 12:3 (Whole Chapter)
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
In other words, saved folks should not be uppity because God gives every person enough faith to find salvation.
:thumbsup :thumbsup
Pressing-On
09-23-2011, 12:47 PM
well, I will agree that far far far too often Christians can come accross as "nanana boo boo im saved you arent" and that is tragic and a result of poor teaching. It aint Christian in the very real since of the term.
I really don't see how a Christian could even have that attitude when we remember where He brought us from and the things He has forgiven us of since that day.
Timmy
09-23-2011, 12:50 PM
I really don't see how a Christian could even have that attitude when we remember where He brought us from and the things He has forgiven us of since that day.
Because they're not where He brought them from, anymore. And because those things they did that are forgiven are forgiven! That makes them (you ;)) pretty special, you have to admit.
Cindy
09-23-2011, 12:53 PM
Good grief.
Cindy
09-23-2011, 12:54 PM
Good grief.
AND, I would say that to your face.
Pressing-On
09-23-2011, 01:00 PM
Because they're not where He brought them from, anymore. And because those things they did that are forgiven are forgiven! That makes them (you ;)) pretty special, you have to admit.
Do you mean, forgotten in italics?
Timmy
09-23-2011, 01:14 PM
Do you mean, forgotten in italics?
No, but that, too. Whatever you have done, it's all gone. Erased. Forgiven and forgotten. How cool is that?
Timmy
09-23-2011, 01:14 PM
AND, I would say that to your face.
:lol
Pressing-On
09-23-2011, 01:27 PM
No, but that, too. Whatever you have done, it's all gone. Erased. Forgiven and forgotten. How cool is that?
Yes, very cool. The problem we have with ourselves is that we keep hanging on to self-condemnation when God has forgiven. If God isn't holding things we have done against us, why do we continue to hang on to our past? Why is it so hard to forgive ourselves? I'm sure there are a myriad of answers. But, one I think would be that we equate, many times, actions/attributes of human beings to God having some of the same.
Once you have made mistakes, as a Christian, and have seen His grace and mercy, it is a totally different feeling and view than when you first found that you were in need of salvation and given heed to that call. It's almost as though He becomes more personal and real to you. And that may have only been my experience. lol
deafdriscoll
09-23-2011, 02:50 PM
once more I have voted against timmy. :heeheehee
With friends like me who needs enemies.
Hoovie
09-23-2011, 07:33 PM
God himself is the giver of life, both physical and eternal life.
We are all undeserving. You too Timmy, and yeah I'd tell you to yer face! :)
Timmy
09-23-2011, 07:43 PM
God himself is the giver of life, both physical and eternal life.
We are all undeserving. You too Timmy, and yeah I'd tell you to yer face! :)
And I would answer, "Do so". :)
Cindy
09-23-2011, 07:59 PM
So, you're still alive? What's up with that?
Timmy
09-23-2011, 08:13 PM
So, you're still alive? What's up with that?
:happydance
Jermyn Davidson
09-23-2011, 10:22 PM
If I were in such a grave conversation with you or anyone else, I would not lie to them, but I would not end the conversation with an eyeball-to-eyeball, "You DON'T deserve to live statement."
None of us deserve to live-- our own lives are a gift from GOD.
Let's try to please Him with our lives.
Hoovie
09-24-2011, 07:02 AM
If I were in such a grave conversation with you or anyone else, I would not lie to them, but I would not end the conversation with an eyeball-to-eyeball, "You DON'T deserve to live statement."
None of us deserve to live-- our own lives are a gift from GOD.
Let's try to please Him with our lives.
Right. It's not something anyone would glory in - after all we are all in the same undeserving boat.
Timmy
09-24-2011, 10:28 AM
Right. It's not something anyone would glory in - after all we are all in the same undeserving boat.
I see your point, but I'm not really asking if anyone would glory in saying it, or whether they would stop there. I know you guys wouldn't do that kind of thing. You have a two-part message. A good news/bad news thing. ;) I get that. But I still disagree with part 1. ;)
MawMaw
09-24-2011, 11:53 AM
Good grief.
AND, I would say that to your face.
And so would I! :heeheehee
btw, Timmy......I'm not all that familiar with your background, but how long have you
called yourself an agnostic and why?
Timmy
09-24-2011, 12:14 PM
And so would I! :heeheehee
btw, Timmy......I'm not all that familiar with your background, but how long have you
called yourself an agnostic and why?
Until 2005, I was a Christian and a member of Assemblies of God churches. I left the Pentecostal fold, but remained a believer for a few years. In fact, I added the agnostic tag before I stopped calling myself a Christian! I "kept the faith" for a while, even though I just wasn't sure about God. Said I was an "agnostic Christian". (Yeah, that won't even make sense to some people. That's OK. I knew what it meant. :lol) Then around 2 years ago (can't even really recall a moment when it happened), I dropped "Christian".
Why? Because it doesn't make sense, anymore. There's a whole lot I could say about that, but, well, I pretty much am saying it in a lot of my posts, as you have noticed. ;)
MawMaw
09-24-2011, 12:24 PM
Until 2005, I was a Christian and a member of Assemblies of God churches. I left the Pentecostal fold, but remained a believer for a few years. In fact, I added the agnostic tag before I stopped calling myself a Christian! I "kept the faith" for a while, even though I just wasn't sure about God. Said I was an "agnostic Christian". (Yeah, that won't even make sense to some people. That's OK. I knew what it meant. :lol) Then around 2 years ago (can't even really recall a moment when it happened), I dropped "Christian".
Why? Because it doesn't make sense, anymore. There's a whole lot I could say about that, but, well, I pretty much am saying it in a lot of my posts, as you have noticed. ;)
Ok.
Being agnostic is not the same as being atheist right?
To be agnostic is to doubt there is a God
To be atheist is to actually believe there is no God
am I correct on that?
we may need a new thread! lol
Pressing-On
09-24-2011, 12:48 PM
Right. It's not something anyone would glory in - after all we are all in the same undeserving boat.
My view is that if God didn't think we deserved to live, he wouldn't have died and made a way of escape for us. Deserving implies that you have worth. "I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10:10
Yes, Timmy, there is worth to your life. And for being a self-proclaimed agnostic, you sure do like to hang around with us a lot. :heeheehee
Timmy
09-24-2011, 12:49 PM
Ok.
Being agnostic is not the same as being atheist right?
To be agnostic is to doubt there is a God
To be atheist is to actually believe there is no God
am I correct on that?
we may need a new thread! lol
Not sure I'd say agnostics doubt there is a God. Some do, I'm sure. As for me, I just don't know, and I leave it at that. Some (probably most) also say that it's not possible to know for sure either way. I'm pretty much in that camp, but I'm not dogmatic about it. ;)
Timmy
09-24-2011, 12:53 PM
My view is that if God didn't think we deserved to live, he wouldn't have died and made a way of escape for us. Deserving implies that you have worth. "I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10:10
Yes, Timmy, there is worth to your life. And for being a self-proclaimed agnostic, you sure do like to hang around with us a lot. :heeheehee
Especially considering how many of you think I deserve to die! :toofunny
Hoovie
09-24-2011, 12:55 PM
My view is that if God didn't think we deserved to live, he wouldn't have died and made a way of escape for us. Deserving implies that you have worth. "I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10:10
Yes, Timmy, there is worth to your life. And for being a self-proclaimed agnostic, you sure do like to hang around with us a lot. :heeheehee
It is the purchaser who pays a price that makes something worthy. Christ alone makes us "worthy" without Him we would remain worthless rubbish.
Pressing-On
09-24-2011, 01:09 PM
Especially considering how many of you think I deserve to die! :toofunny
We are all going to die and then the judgment. We deserve to die for our sins and unbelief, especially - "For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse." Romans 1:20
And, again, you can't Hail Mary your way out of that one, Tim-may! :heeheehee
Pressing-On
09-24-2011, 01:11 PM
It is the purchaser who pays a price that makes something worthy. Christ alone makes us "worthy" without Him we would remain worthless rubbish.
Of course, without Him, we wouldn't be here. But, the Word says, "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." John 15:13. I maintain that the worth is seen and valued, first, in order to go that far.
Hoovie
09-24-2011, 01:17 PM
Of course, without Him, we wouldn't be here. But, the Word says, "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." John 15:13. I maintain that the worth is seen and valued, first, in order to go that far.
I would like to see this discussed further.
Did Christ die for us because he saw a special value in us? Or did He die to make me valuable, in spite of the fact that I was a worm?
Pressing-On
09-24-2011, 01:32 PM
I would like to see this discussed further.
Did Christ die for us because he saw a special value in us? Or did He die to make me valuable, in spite of the fact that I was a worm?
Did He not plan to restore what He lost in the Garden of Eden? Wasn't it relationship restored that He wanted? That means, to me, that He saw value that He didn't want lost forever. I view myself as a worm without Him. With Him I feel of very special value. When He communicates with me, He makes me feel that the world revolves only around me at that moment. I know that I am valuable to Him.
Think that I grew up without this truth and when I look back, I see how He protected and watched over my life until the day my heart was ready to receive Him. It would take too long to tell each account and to prove I knew He was there, but today, looking back, I see it.
I can't say that we don't deserve to live. I see the value He placed on us, so full of love that he would lay down his life - beaten until you could not recognize His face, where Pontius had to say, "Behold, the man."
Timmy
09-25-2011, 09:28 AM
It is the purchaser who pays a price that makes something worthy. Christ alone makes us "worthy" without Him we would remain worthless rubbish.
Jesus said you had to do certain things to be worthy. He didn't want to "purchase" just anyone.
Are all non-Christians worthless rubbish?
Timmy
09-25-2011, 09:31 AM
We are all going to die and then the judgment. We deserve to die for our sins and unbelief, especially - "For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse." Romans 1:20
And, again, you can't Hail Mary your way out of that one, Tim-may! :heeheehee
We deserve to die for unbelief, especially? Is not believing a worse sin than lying or killing?
(Have I ever said I could Hail Mary my way of anything? ;))
Pressing-On
09-25-2011, 11:27 AM
We deserve to die for unbelief, especially? Is not believing a worse sin than lying or killing?
My "especially" was referring to the scripture I cited - Romans 1:20. It clearly says that we are without excuse.
Everything we act upon and our responses begin with faith/belief. So, yes, I think unbelief is worse than lying or killing. Paul speaks to Timothy saying that his knowing the scriptures made him wise unto salvation through his faith/belief of Jesus Christ. So, if Timothy has faith/belief and knows the scriptures, he is not going to lie or kill.
(Have I ever said I could Hail Mary my way of anything? ;))
LOL! Well, the way you put it here makes it appear I was being condescending toward you and I assure you, I wasn't. I was just joking around when I said that. No, I have never read you saying you could Hail Mary your way out of anything.
Hoovie
09-25-2011, 11:57 AM
Jesus said you had to do certain things to be worthy. He didn't want to "purchase" just anyone.
Are all non-Christians worthless rubbish?
Pretty much - just like everyone. In relation to any value worthy to save our souls, no one, save Christ, has anything to offer - zilch, nada, nix. Sorry Timmy, there ain't no back door.
Timmy
09-25-2011, 12:47 PM
Pretty much - just like everyone.
Everyone? Certainly not believers! You said without Christ, we are worthless rubbish. You said Christ makes you worthy.
In relation to any value worthy to save our souls, no one, save Christ, has anything to offer - zilch, nada, nix. Sorry Timmy, there ain't no back door.
Well, if you're talking about saving your souls, and only that, and only in terms of the final judgement after death, sure. You could be right. Maybe God views an unbeliever's soul as worthless and rubbish if that soul didn't believe the right things. But that remains to be seen. I prefer to think of the life we have. There is no argument that we do, indeed, have life before death. And I vehemently disagree with anyone who says my human life or any other human life is worthless, and yes, that goes for those "without Christ", too.
Hoovie
09-25-2011, 12:52 PM
My comments are all in regard to salvific value. Even worms aerate the soil.
Timmy
09-25-2011, 01:48 PM
My comments are all in regard to salvific value. Even worms aerate the soil.
Yeah, but will worms get to heaven? :lol
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