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Amanah
09-25-2011, 01:33 PM
I went to visit my old Church today for their 30th anniversary service.

The fifteen years I attended they were UPC Ultra Con.

It has been a few years since I have attended the church other then visiting from time to time, they have changed quite a bit from where they began. Most notably there don't preach UPC standards for one thing.

After the service, I spoke with the assistant Pastor's wife and I asked her point blank.

I said, You know I used to attend this church before you joined it, It was UPC Ultra conservative church

She said, yes, I know

I said, well, I'm just wondering, does the church still believe the same as it used to believe, other then the standards

She said, well, yes we believe the same. We believe in Repentance, Baptism in Jesus Name and receiving the HG.

I said, tell me this, do you believe justification/remission of sins occurs at repentance or baptism?

she said, We believe it occurs at repentance. We believe God is going to meet you where you are. If people come in and say they love Jesus and have a relationship with him, we accept them where they are.

My Sister who also attended this church when it was UC, was there listening to the conversation and she broke down and cried. She (my sister) wants to attend there now.

She says she feels so much more comfortable with this belief then with the UPC UC belief system.

Just thought I'd share what I learned today at church.

RandyWayne
09-25-2011, 01:34 PM
I said, tell me this, do you believe justification/remision of sins occurs at repentance or baptism?

she said, We believe it occurs at repentance. We believe God is going to meet you where you are. If people come in and say they love Jesus and have a relationship with him, we accept them where they are.

Sounds like a great church -now! :)

Steve Epley
09-25-2011, 01:52 PM
I went to visit my old Church today for their 30th anniversary service.

The fifteen years I attended they were UPC Ultra Con.

It has been a few years since I have attended the church other then visiting from time to time, they have changed quite a bit from where they began. Most notably there don't preach UPC standards for one thing.

After the service, I spoke with the assistant Pastor's wife and I asked her point blank.

I said, You know I used to attend this church before you joined it, It was UPC Ultra conservative church

She said, yes, I know

I said, well, I'm just wondering, does the church still believe the same as it used to believe, other then the standards

She said, well, yes we believe the same. We believe in Repentance, Baptism in Jesus Name and receiving the HG.

I said, tell me this, do you believe justification/remission of sins occurs at repentance or baptism?

she said, We believe it occurs at repentance. We believe God is going to meet you where you are. If people come in and say they love Jesus and have a relationship with him, we accept them where they are.

My Sister who also attended this church when it was UC, was there listening to the conversation and she broke down and cried. She (my sister) wants to attend there now.

She says she feels so much more comfortable with this belief then with the UPC UC belief system.

Just thought I'd share what I learned today at church.

"and some shall depart from the faith" This is an example.

Amanah
09-25-2011, 01:55 PM
"and some shall depart from the faith" This is an example.

I love you Brother Epley

RandyWayne
09-25-2011, 01:56 PM
"and some shall depart from the faith" This is an example.

I always wondered who was the first to utter the phrase "Us four and no more". Must have been a UC apostolic.

Steve Epley
09-25-2011, 02:25 PM
I always wondered who was the first to utter the phrase "Us four and no more". Must have been a UC apostolic.

All my eggs are in one basket. :thumbsup

Michael The Disciple
09-25-2011, 02:27 PM
Glad to hear about the standards. As far as them accepting people where they are if they have repented I would say most Apostolic Churches would say the same thing. Salvation begins with repentance. It is just not complete apart from baptism in water and the spirit.

aegsm76
09-25-2011, 03:26 PM
"She says she feels so much more comfortable with this belief then with the UPC UC belief system."

And we all know that we should attend a church where we feel comfortable.

Amanah
09-25-2011, 04:20 PM
"She says she feels so much more comfortable with this belief then with the UPC UC belief system."

And we all know that we should attend a church where we feel comfortable.

I'm so weary from trying to understand and figure it all out.

I'm happy that they believe in One God, Repentance, Baptism in Jesus Name, and the infilling of the Holy Ghost.

I'm happy that my Sister wants to go to church.

The Pastor of this church was my Pastor for many years.

Maybe I will just work on my walk with God and letting my light shine, rather then try to make the world make sense.

RandyWayne
09-25-2011, 04:30 PM
"She says she feels so much more comfortable with this belief then with the UPC UC belief system."

And we all know that we should attend a church where we feel comfortable.

Well, if YOU didn't feel comfortable wouldn't you take it as a sign that maybe it wasn't the right church for you? Or does this only apply to a church with lesser standards than your own?

hometown guy
09-25-2011, 06:13 PM
I went to visit my old Church today for their 30th anniversary service.

The fifteen years I attended they were UPC Ultra Con.

It has been a few years since I have attended the church other then visiting from time to time, they have changed quite a bit from where they began. Most notably there don't preach UPC standards for one thing.

After the service, I spoke with the assistant Pastor's wife and I asked her point blank.

I said, You know I used to attend this church before you joined it, It was UPC Ultra conservative church

She said, yes, I know

I said, well, I'm just wondering, does the church still believe the same as it used to believe, other then the standards

She said, well, yes we believe the same. We believe in Repentance, Baptism in Jesus Name and receiving the HG.

I said, tell me this, do you believe justification/remission of sins occurs at repentance or baptism?

she said, We believe it occurs at repentance. We believe God is going to meet you where you are. If people come in and say they love Jesus and have a relationship with him, we accept them where they are.

My Sister who also attended this church when it was UC, was there listening to the conversation and she broke down and cried. She (my sister) wants to attend there now.

She says she feels so much more comfortable with this belief then with the UPC UC belief system.

Just thought I'd share what I learned today at church.


"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;"

Arphaxad
09-25-2011, 06:32 PM
I went to visit my old Church today for their 30th anniversary service.

The fifteen years I attended they were UPC Ultra Con.

It has been a few years since I have attended the church other then visiting from time to time, they have changed quite a bit from where they began. Most notably there don't preach UPC standards for one thing.

After the service, I spoke with the assistant Pastor's wife and I asked her point blank.

I said, You know I used to attend this church before you joined it, It was UPC Ultra conservative church

She said, yes, I know

I said, well, I'm just wondering, does the church still believe the same as it used to believe, other then the standards

She said, well, yes we believe the same. We believe in Repentance, Baptism in Jesus Name and receiving the HG.

I said, tell me this, do you believe justification/remission of sins occurs at repentance or baptism?

she said, We believe it occurs at repentance. We believe God is going to meet you where you are. If people come in and say they love Jesus and have a relationship with him, we accept them where they are.

My Sister who also attended this church when it was UC, was there listening to the conversation and she broke down and cried. She (my sister) wants to attend there now.

She says she feels so much more comfortable with this belief then with the UPC UC belief system.

Just thought I'd share what I learned today at church.

"and some shall depart from the faith" This is an example.

"She says she feels so much more comfortable with this belief then with the UPC UC belief system."

And we all know that we should attend a church where we feel comfortable.

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;"


If Amanah posted that they were preaching more standards than the ones they were preaching before, would you guys say the same things?


:doggyrun

houston
09-25-2011, 06:45 PM
If Amanah posted that they were preaching more standards than the ones they were preaching before, would you guys say the same things?


:doggyrun

of course not. bunch of legalists. whited sepulcres... full of dead men's bones.

Hoovie
09-25-2011, 07:12 PM
I wouldn't go so far as Houston... But it does raise the question, Is it less grevious to add to scripture by demanding additional conformities than it is to drop some dress standards?

houston
09-25-2011, 07:42 PM
coward

Cindy
09-25-2011, 08:31 PM
So, what's the problem?

Hoovie
09-25-2011, 08:33 PM
coward

Third shot of Jack?

houston
09-25-2011, 09:20 PM
Third shot of Jack?

NOT on the Lord's day!

RandyWayne
09-25-2011, 09:29 PM
I wouldn't go so far as Houston... But it does raise the question, Is it less grevious to add to scripture by demanding additional conformities than it is to drop some dress standards?

There is always that flip side where if someone started the exact same thread except in this case the pastor says "I am now going to preach against this! That! And the other thing!", the same three people would be shouting "preach it!".

Steve Epley
09-25-2011, 09:55 PM
"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;"

Amen.

Steve Epley
09-25-2011, 09:56 PM
If Amanah posted that they were preaching more standards than the ones they were preaching before, would you guys say the same things?


:doggyrun

No I would not.

houston
09-25-2011, 10:01 PM
No I would not.

Why not?

Steve Epley
09-25-2011, 10:10 PM
Why not?

Stronger preaching never hurt anyone.

crakjak
09-25-2011, 10:21 PM
Stronger preaching never hurt anyone.

Strong preaching of the doctrines of men, with the threat of eternal damnation has hurt plenty of folks.

houston
09-25-2011, 10:32 PM
Stronger preaching never hurt anyone.

what is stronger about it?

Hoovie
09-25-2011, 10:36 PM
Stronger preaching never hurt anyone.

I can't agree. I believe placing a greater burden on the people than necessary may actually be a sin. Especially if it is preached as mandatory.

hometown guy
09-25-2011, 11:12 PM
I can't agree. I believe placing a greater burden on the people than necessary may actually be a sin. Especially if it is preached as mandatory.

Is this one of your standards?

houston
09-25-2011, 11:23 PM
My standard is the Bible. Some of you are better suited to be muslim clerics than preachers of Christ.

pelathais
09-25-2011, 11:30 PM
"and some shall depart from the faith" This is an example.

These folks believe in sincere repentance, baptism in Jesus name and the baptism of the Holy Ghost. Now, jut how have they "departed from the faith?"

Your nasty and hypocritical statements hang around your neck like a dead albatross. On the one hand you piously profess that you are "NOT the judge..." And then, in the next breath you deal your own brand of unbiblical judgments and crass condemnations sending everyone to hell who doesn't toady up to your destructive views.

pelathais
09-25-2011, 11:37 PM
"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;"

Amen.

... keep reading ...

2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Steve's the one who has departed from the faith and is "turned unto fables." We're all still waiting for that "ample evidence" of all the "hereticks" who preached your doctrine in the POST Nicene time period... or any time period before 1900.

Q: Who can't endure "sound doctrine?"

A: The one who is pitching fables all over AFF.

Amanah
09-26-2011, 03:14 AM
So, what's the problem?

I think I'm ok with it, even though I have not settled some things for certain in my own mind.

I do have a few questions, things I will learn through observation.

For instance:
I understand that they believe people are justified through faith at Repentance. I would hope that they view this as a continuing process, and would encourage people to go on and be baptized in Jesus name, and receive the Holy Ghost. Not preaching it with hell fire damnation, but teaching that this is the biblical model.

We are all at different places in our understanding concerning our walk with God.

pelathais
09-26-2011, 04:10 AM
I can't agree. I believe placing a greater burden on the people than necessary may actually be a sin. Especially if it is preached as mandatory.

Is this one of your standards?

Actually, it's Bible.

Act 15:28:

"For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things..." (read the list of 'things").


Matthew 23:4-5:

"For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. But all their works they do for to be seen of men..."

Luke 11:46:

"And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers."

And, perhaps the biggest reason these guys push their "standards" ...

Galatians 6:13:

"For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh."

Levi
09-26-2011, 07:12 AM
Is the church still in the UPC?

Digging4Truth
09-26-2011, 07:17 AM
Stronger preaching never hurt anyone.

Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.
Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.
Col 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

It doesn't say in these scriptures that they were failing to teach commandments of God.

It says they were teaching commandments of men... that weren't Gods... that would be... extra commandments.

And the Bible calls that vain worship.

I do believe that we can fail to teach Gods word and Gods way to people.

But the Bible is clear in it's take on people who would teach commandments of men as a doctrine from God.

So... according to the Bible... stronger isn't necessarily better.

Amanah
09-26-2011, 07:55 AM
Is the church still in the UPC?

nope

Steve Epley
09-26-2011, 07:59 AM
Actually, it's Bible.

Act 15:28:

"For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things..." (read the list of 'things").


Matthew 23:4-5:

"For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. But all their works they do for to be seen of men..."

Luke 11:46:

"And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers."

And, perhaps the biggest reason these guys push their "standards" ...

Galatians 6:13:

"For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh."

Sometimes you seem very smart and others times.........................well less than that.
You quote Acts 15:28 as though that is the end of the story. I guess from Romans to Revelation are not inspired? Good grief. The 'logic' is so convoluted from folks who leave the truth and trade it for endless error.

Timmy
09-26-2011, 08:55 AM
:popcorn2

On The Wheel
09-26-2011, 09:20 AM
Stronger preaching never hurt anyone.

Chilling words. Christ would have to disagree.

Truth can be perverted to become bondage and licentiousness. God abhors both.

Digging4Truth
09-26-2011, 09:37 AM
:popcorn2

You eat too much popcorn Timmy.

I think we need to preach against popcorn since stronger preaching never hurt anybody. :)

houston
09-26-2011, 09:40 AM
You eat too much popcorn Timmy.

I think we need to preach against popcorn since stronger preaching never hurt anybody. :)

:foottap

Timmy
09-26-2011, 09:44 AM
:foottap

:D

aegsm76
09-26-2011, 01:52 PM
Well, if YOU didn't feel comfortable wouldn't you take it as a sign that maybe it wasn't the right church for you? Or does this only apply to a church with lesser standards than your own?

The pastor of the church that I currently attend doesn't worry about making me feel "comfortable".
He preaches the word and sometimes it makes me feel very uncomfortable.
However, his goal and mine are to make it to heaven.
Not to worry about feeling comfortable on earth.

Amanah
09-26-2011, 02:00 PM
The pastor of the church that I currently attend doesn't worry about making me feel "comfortable".
He preaches the word and sometimes it makes me feel very uncomfortable.
However, his goal and mine are to make it to heaven.
Not to worry about feeling comfortable on earth.

yes there is truth in this no doubt.

what my sister was really saying was that she felt love and acceptance there.

she has had the HG and been baptized in Jesus name for many years, yet when we step into the UPC church, even though there are people there who know us, she can't make a step towards the altar to pray without feeling like she is under the attack of the hands, simply because she has cut hair.

she wants to go to church somewhere where she feels loved, not where she feels like pond scum. (her words, not mine)

pelathais
09-26-2011, 11:11 PM
Sometimes you seem very smart and others times.........................well less than that.
You quote Acts 15:28 as though that is the end of the story. I guess from Romans to Revelation are not inspired? Good grief. The 'logic' is so convoluted from folks who leave the truth and trade it for endless error.

Help me out then, where in the books "from Romans to Revelation" is anything added as a "burden" (or otherwise) to the instructions given at the "Council of Jerusalem" as recorded in Acts 15? What specifically is added to these general instructions?

Love you. Bro. Seriously.

*** Just wanted to add, in response to your kind words, that I think you're smart too, and better looking than I am.

pelathais
09-26-2011, 11:17 PM
The pastor of the church that I currently attend doesn't worry about making me feel "comfortable".
He preaches the word and sometimes it makes me feel very uncomfortable.
However, his goal and mine are to make it to heaven.
Not to worry about feeling comfortable on earth.

I don't know what he's preaching, but all he really needs to preach in "Jesus" (1 Corinthians 2:2) and both you and he can enter heaven victoriously (1 Timothy 4:16). This can make a lot of folks "uncomfortable" (Romans 9:33); but at least it's a thoroughly Biblical message.

The Mrs
09-27-2011, 09:51 PM
Aaahhhh.... Just like old times!

:bliss :bliss :bliss

Hoovie
09-27-2011, 09:54 PM
Aaahhhh.... Just like old times!

:bliss :bliss :bliss

LOL! Is that a sleeveless top you are wearing?? Go take it off!

This place is holiness.

:spit

Nice to see you again Jellybean.

CC1
09-27-2011, 09:56 PM
LOL! Is that a sleeveless top you are wearing?? Go take it off!

This place is holiness.

:spit

Nice to see you again Jellybean.

Hoovie, if you continue to urge female posters to take their tops off I will have to ban you and tell your wife!:happydance

The Mrs
09-27-2011, 10:21 PM
LOL! Is that a sleeveless top you are wearing?? Go take it off!

This place is holiness.

:spit

Nice to see you again Jellybean.

LOL! I wasn't thinking! :doh

Should I use the pom-poms pic? :heeheehee

Hoovie
09-27-2011, 10:33 PM
LOL! I wasn't thinking! :doh

Should I use the pom-poms pic? :heeheehee

I think we should forgo that one, holiness or not.

The Mrs
09-27-2011, 10:46 PM
I think we should forgo that one, holiness or not.

Haha! FINALLY! One you have an aversion to!!! :heeheehee