Question about works vs grace

[Timmy]

Would it be correct to say in OT times, salvation was by works, and in NT times, salvation is by grace? (Or faith, or both, or whatever you want to call it, as long as it's not works. ;))

[Steve Epley]

Would it be correct to say in OT times, salvation was by works, and in NT times, salvation is by grace? (Or faith, or both, or whatever you want to call it, as long as it's not works. ;))

NO in both dispensations salvation was by faith extended by grace the applications and benefits are different.

[Timmy]

NO in both dispensations salvation was by faith extended by grace the applications and benefits are different.

The benefits are different? In what way?

[Steve Epley]

The benefits are different? In what way?

IN the OT sins were forgiven but not taken away, in the NT sins are not only forgiven but taken away. In the OT men had God with them in the NT men have God IN them. In the OT the promises were mostly natural in the NT the promises are mostly heavenly.

[Amanah]

weren't the OT sins rolled up to the cross to be taken away at the cross?

[Steve Epley]

weren't the OT sins rolled up to the cross to be taken away at the cross?

Yes.

[Timmy]

IN the OT sins were forgiven but not taken away, in the NT sins are not only forgiven but taken away. In the OT men had God with them in the NT men have God IN them. In the OT the promises were mostly natural in the NT the promises are mostly heavenly.

What does that mean?

[Steve Epley]

What does that mean?

Every year they had to go through the process again at the Atonement. Jesus once for all removed sins from those who through faith obey the gospel by His death at Calvary.

[Timmy]

Every year they had to go through the process again at the Atonement. Jesus once for all removed sins from those who through faith obey the gospel by His death at Calvary.

Was there any real difference in the benefit, from a person's point of view, other than the need for annual sacrifices vs one sacrifice for all time? Do the OT obedient ones get to have a nice eternity, same as Christians?

[Steve Epley]

Was there any real difference in the benefit, from a person's point of view, other than the need for annual sacrifices vs one sacrifice for all time? Do the OT obedient ones get to have a nice eternity, same as Christians?

This lesson would be too long. There will be a difference in the roles in the coming kingdom and the world to come. But yes they will have a nice eternity.

[pelathais]

NO in both dispensations salvation was by faith extended by grace the applications and benefits are different.

:thumbsup

There! See? You can be pretty good and right-on! when you want.

Though... I would quibble a bit about the "benefits are different" ... and you probably have the same things in mind anyhow.

Romans 4:11-13:

"... For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith."

In the short term, the lives of the individuals differed through time, sometimes radically; however, in the eternal things we all have the same inheritance.

[pelathais]

weren't the OT sins rolled up to the cross to be taken away at the cross?

Yes.

Which means, effectively, that the sins were "taken away." Or "blotted out." Or "removed far away" & etc.

Genesis 15:6; Psalm 32:1-2, Psalm 51:1-9, Psalm 103:12; Isaiah 1:16-18, Isaiah 43:25, Isaiah 44:21-22; Jeremiah 33:7-9.

[Timmy]

Which means, effectively, that the sins were "taken away." Or "blotted out." Or "removed far away" & etc.

Genesis 15:6; Psalm 32:1-2, Psalm 51:1-9, Psalm 103:12; Isaiah 1:16-18, Isaiah 43:25, Isaiah 44:21-22; Jeremiah 33:7-9.

You're not taking these scriptures too literally, are you? ;)

[pelathais]

You're not taking these scriptures too literally, are you? ;)

In these cases, I of all people NEED them to be understood "literally." :thumbsup