Advice please on a church situation

[stony ground]

As you may know from my rare posts, this year my family has found a new church after being out of church for awhile. It is a small church, but they are wonderful people and we are very happy there and are being fed spiritually (which is the most important thing).

Recently, the pastor asked me & my wife to work on an outreach program for the church. Having been unchurched, churched, and backslidden in my life, I have a burden for all three groups, so after some prayer I accepted. We have started planning the program from the ground up and it will be fairly wide-ranging.

Another new addition to our church has been a preacher & wife who are sweet and earnestly God-fearing folks, who have been asked to help with the outreach as well. But in recent weeks, a problem has arisen. (This is the part I need advice with).

This preacher (who is a great preacher too, BTW) has some practices in his altar work which I do not wholly agree with. I will be specific if you request that I be as to what is occuring, but the thrust of my point is I feel that some (certainly not all) of his actions in the altar are extra-biblical, risk possible injury (yes, you read that right), and could be distracting at best or turn people away at worst. My wife was raised apostolic and feels the same way I do.

This has not been an isolated incident, it keeps happening. I am not ashamed to "act Pentecostal" in church, but as someone who was once new to this, I can see how this specific behavior could turn people off before we have a chance to make our case to them. I will pray and cry with you in the altar, or shout & leap for joy with you too, but I also believe in things done "decently and in order" and to have some biblical precedent.

Again, I don't know him extremely well, but I genuinely like the guy, he's as nice as he can be and is perfectly sincere as far as I can tell. But I abhor hypocrisy, and if I work to bring people to a church that I don't agree with the practices 100%, am I not a hypocrite? Should I talk to the guy myself? Speak with the pastor? Just grin & bear it? Bow out of the outreach ministry to not cause trouble? I am still fairly new there, and I do not want to cause trouble or over step my bounds. I do not know where the pastor stands on this and the gentleman in question is also an ordained minister and I do not wish to be disrespectful to either man.

Sorry this was so wordy, your thoughts are welcome, and again if you think the specific actions need to be stated, I'll be glad to do so but I didn't want to make this a theological debate on altar worship.

[Praxeas]

First step is pray, then talk to the Pastor. See where that goes

[kclee4jc]

Chances are, your pastor has noticed this and is praying about it and trying to find a way to deal with it without hurting this gentlemans feelings. It wouldn't hurt to pray about it and talk to him.

[ThePastorsCoach]

I concur that surely the Pastor has seen the same and probably needs the support of this other Preacher so he has not said anything. After prayer, I would go to the pastor and ask that the conversation be in complete confidence and then tell him what you feel. Most of us that grew up in Classical Pentecostalism have seen our share (and sometimes participated in) extra-Biblical actions. We grew up in it - saw that was the way it was done, so we followed after until...we learned better. I hope that helps.

[Austin]

Be careful not to become overly concerned with things in this church. Remember in pentecostal churches there is a lot of stuff that people see differently because they would not do it that way. There is a lot of independent ideas and attitudes in these movements.
If your new to the church and this person has been there a long time, chances are the pastor does not agree with you if he has seen this stuff and has not dealt with it.
Give it some time and again it's not your responsibility to correct things, it's up to Jesus and the Shepherd of the church.
Take the advice others have posted here. Pray about it and stand back and watch God work.

[Steve Epley]

Be careful not to become overly concerned with things in this church. Remember in pentecostal churches there is a lot of stuff that people see differently because they would not do it that way. There is a lot of independent ideas and attitudes in these movements.
If your new to the church and this person has been there a long time, chances are the pastor does not agree with you if he has seen this stuff and has not dealt with it.
Give it some time and again it's not your responsibility to correct things, it's up to Jesus and the Shepherd of the church.
Take the advice others have posted here. Pray about it and stand back and watch God work.

Good advise. It is the Pastor's job let him handle it he may already be working on it behind the scenes. Just do your job and commit the other guy to the Lord and the Pastor.

[JamDat]

If it's biblical then you shouldn't say anything about it. The church is for the sheep not the goats. Things that we do in church can and will be offensive to the world.

If it's not biblical to your understanding then have a talk with pastor who may give you insight or maybe rethink his actions.

[stony ground]

Thank you all for your thoughts, I appreciate your wisdom. The preacher in question is even newer there than me, so although I'm sure the pastor has know this man awhile, he's not been part of our church until recently.

I am not trying to change the man, if the pastor is ok with the way things are, I'm not going to buck his authority. And even if the pastor isn't ok with it, it's not my place to make that call. I really didn't even want to talk to the pastor about it, because I don't want to talk about the man behind his back. I am just conflicted about getting deeply involved in an outreach ministry inviting people to a church when I'm not 100% on board with what they will be seeing in service.

Maybe I'm just overthinking it and need to pray it through, but keep your thoughts coming I do appreciate it.

[Steve Epley]

Thank you all for your thoughts, I appreciate your wisdom. The preacher in question is even newer there than me, so although I'm sure the pastor has know this man awhile, he's not been part of our church until recently.

I am not trying to change the man, if the pastor is ok with the way things are, I'm not going to buck his authority. And even if the pastor isn't ok with it, it's not my place to make that call. I really didn't even want to talk to the pastor about it, because I don't want to talk about the man behind his back. I am just conflicted about getting deeply involved in an outreach ministry inviting people to a church when I'm not 100% on board with what they will be seeing in service.

Maybe I'm just overthinking it and need to pray it through, but keep your thoughts coming I do appreciate it.

Your attitude is commendable. Since the guy is new the Pastor might be trying to get to know him better before he adjusts the situation. The Devil might be using this to discourage you. Just bring the visitors and pray with them yourself.

[Sister Alvear]

A forum is a terrible place in some ways to ask advice however I would go with Brother Epley's advice...

[Cindy]

I agree, it's hard to give advice online. But, I commend your attitude, but if you bow out don't you think your Pastor might ask you why? Then you might be able to meet with your Pastor and the other preacher. As I agree you should not go behind his back.

[kclee4jc]

Chances are, your pastor has noticed this and is praying about it and trying to find a way to deal with it without hurting this gentlemans feelings. It wouldn't hurt to pray about it and talk to him.

By "pray about it and talk to him" i meant talk to your pastor. We have had the same issues at our church with certain saints praying in the altar. My pastor notices and we have discussed it at times. Subtle hints have been dropped and i can honestly say this, no one has been run off from our church because of a lack of altar skills. It seems the Spirit has a way of protecting seekers in the altars. I suppose the chance is still there, but we need to trust God and the man of God just a little bit more. This is minor compared to some issues that churches are having these days.

[stony ground]

Thank you all again for your honest advice & wisdom, I think it has given me some perspective in this issue. I'm going to pray harder, give my best to the ministry I've been asked to work in, and hold my peace for now. Good things are happening at this church, and it would break my heart to know I did anything to damage that, however well meaning my intentions.

I'd also agree that a forum is maybe not the best place to get advice on the issue, but since no one here knows my real name or my church this is the only venue where there's no risk of embarrassing the gentleman in question by someone recognizing the description.

Thanks again, folks, & pray for me for wisdom. :)

[Cindy]

Thank you all again for your honest advice & wisdom, I think it has given me some perspective in this issue. I'm going to pray harder, give my best to the ministry I've been asked to work in, and hold my peace for now. Good things are happening at this church, and it would break my heart to know I did anything to damage that, however well meaning my intentions.

I'd also agree that a forum is maybe not the best place to get advice on the issue, but since no one here knows my real name or my church this is the only venue where there's no risk of embarrassing the gentleman in question by someone recognizing the description.

Thanks again, folks, & pray for me for wisdom. :)

:thumbsup

[Jay]

I have heard that you do not need to always agree with everything in order to be 100% behind your church. I agree. Things do not always go as we would like, but that is why we must keep ourselves prayed through and remain in submission to the man of God.

[Aquila]

I'd say... he has his ministry... you have yours. Just draw close to how God desires YOU to be. Talk to the pastor if you like... but it might sound like you're being critical. I'm not very "expressive"... nor am I a "fireball". Those types used to annoy me but then God corrected me saying, "They are who I called them to be. You be who I called you to be."

Just be yourself in the Lord... and allow this man to be himself in the Lord. We all have different styles. And I'm sure we all do things many of us wouldn't do. Focus on Jesus and who He called you to be.

Lastly, and most importantly, pray.

[pelathais]

As you may know from my rare posts, this year my family has found a new church after being out of church for awhile. It is a small church, but they are wonderful people and we are very happy there and are being fed spiritually (which is the most important thing).

Recently, the pastor asked me & my wife to work on an outreach program for the church. Having been unchurched, churched, and backslidden in my life, I have a burden for all three groups, so after some prayer I accepted. We have started planning the program from the ground up and it will be fairly wide-ranging.

Another new addition to our church has been a preacher & wife who are sweet and earnestly God-fearing folks, who have been asked to help with the outreach as well. But in recent weeks, a problem has arisen. (This is the part I need advice with).

This preacher (who is a great preacher too, BTW) has some practices in his altar work which I do not wholly agree with. I will be specific if you request that I be as to what is occuring, but the thrust of my point is I feel that some (certainly not all) of his actions in the altar are extra-biblical, risk possible injury (yes, you read that right), and could be distracting at best or turn people away at worst. My wife was raised apostolic and feels the same way I do.
...

I hear ya, Bro. I sat for many years in a church that I wouldn't invite my worst enemy to attend. These things can be a real hindrance to your Spiritual well being. - and, like you, I'm not talking about simple eccentricities here, either.

What I would do is to either approach the guy myself or approach the pastor. You might even share this document with them: http://www.courthousenews.com/2009/03/03/Pentecostal%20pastor.pdf

The "Defendant" was (at the time) the Assistant General Superintendent of the United Pentecostal Church. I don't know the details of how this was finally settled, but just the attorney's fees required to respond to something like this wasn't cheap.

To be fair to that "Defendant" - I knew the man for more than a few years and I heard him preach a number of times. At NO time did I ever witness him doing anything like was alleged in this suit. The fact that the "Plaintiff" herself was a lawyer makes me suspicious of her motives. Be that as it may, a wise pastor will do all that he can to avoid these kinds of circumstances.

[Ev. Duane Williams]

A forum is a terrible place in some ways to ask advice however I would go with Brother Epley's advice...

Amen! I was going to tell you this place is the LAST place you should go to seek advice, but Praise God, Brother Epley showed up before some of the other "characters" on this forum. I would heed his advice.

[Jay]

Amen, Ev. Williams. Amen indeed.

[stony ground]

Just to put a bow on this discussion, in my daily Bible reading yesterday I came across Ephasians 4:1-3...

I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called, with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love, endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

It was almost as if God answered my prayers with "well, since you asked...here's what I think." Message received, Big Guy.