Priests & Holy Places

[Digging4Truth]

I started to ask this in MfBlumes Ankle/Rope Legend thread but if it did take off it would be a serious hijack to the subject at hand.

So... I was interested in hearing what some of the things being discussed in that thread might hold for us in the NT as far as types & shadows.

For instance several questions that come to mind....

It is being discussed that the priest could wear a colored robe as far as the Holy Place but could only wear a white robe into the Holy of Holies. White would represent holiness. But, beyond that, would there be an type/shadow significance for that?

In a NT Type/Shadow scenario what would the Holy Place vs the Holy of Holies stand for?

I'm sure there are others that I will remember later on but those would be a start.

[Nitehawk013]

Well the rope and bells myth held a lot of weight to many b/c it allowed them to tie it to receiving the Holy Ghost evidenced with tongues.

If you heard the bells...the sacrifice was accepted and the people were "saved" another year. If you heard tongues, the person had received the gift and was saved. The flip being that if you heard no bells/tongues...the person was still dead/unsaved.

[mfblume]

Exo 28:2 KJV And thou shalt make holy garments for Aaron thy brother for glory and for beauty.

Exo 28:4-40 KJV And these are the garments which they shall make; a breastplate, and an ephod, and a robe, and a broidered coat, a mitre, and a girdle: and they shall make holy garments for Aaron thy brother, and his sons, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office. (5) And they shall take gold, and blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen. (6) And they shall make the ephod of gold, of blue, and of purple, of scarlet, and fine twined linen, with cunning work. (7) It shall have the two shoulderpieces thereof joined at the two edges thereof; and so it shall be joined together. (8) And the curious girdle of the ephod, which is upon it, shall be of the same, according to the work thereof; even of gold, of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen. (9) And thou shalt take two onyx stones, and grave on them the names of the children of Israel: (10) Six of their names on one stone, and the other six names of the rest on the other stone, according to their birth. (11) With the work of an engraver in stone, like the engravings of a signet, shalt thou engrave the two stones with the names of the children of Israel: thou shalt make them to be set in ouches of gold. (12) And thou shalt put the two stones upon the shoulders of the ephod for stones of memorial unto the children of Israel: and Aaron shall bear their names before the LORD upon his two shoulders for a memorial. (13) And thou shalt make ouches of gold; (14) And two chains of pure gold at the ends; of wreathen work shalt thou make them, and fasten the wreathen chains to the ouches. (15) And thou shalt make the breastplate of judgment with cunning work; after the work of the ephod thou shalt make it; of gold, of blue, and of purple, and of scarlet, and of fine twined linen, shalt thou make it. (16) Foursquare it shall be being doubled; a span shall be the length thereof, and a span shall be the breadth thereof. (17) And thou shalt set in it settings of stones, even four rows of stones: the first row shall be a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this shall be the first row. (18) And the second row shall be an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond. (19) And the third row a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst. (20) And the fourth row a beryl, and an onyx, and a jasper: they shall be set in gold in their inclosings. (21) And the stones shall be with the names of the children of Israel, twelve, according to their names, like the engravings of a signet; every one with his name shall they be according to the twelve tribes. (22) And thou shalt make upon the breastplate chains at the ends of wreathen work of pure gold. (23) And thou shalt make upon the breastplate two rings of gold, and shalt put the two rings on the two ends of the breastplate. (24) And thou shalt put the two wreathen chains of gold in the two rings which are on the ends of the breastplate. (25) And the other two ends of the two wreathen chains thou shalt fasten in the two ouches, and put them on the shoulderpieces of the ephod before it. (26) And thou shalt make two rings of gold, and thou shalt put them upon the two ends of the breastplate in the border thereof, which is in the side of the ephod inward. (27) And two other rings of gold thou shalt make, and shalt put them on the two sides of the ephod underneath, toward the forepart thereof, over against the other coupling thereof, above the curious girdle of the ephod. (28) And they shall bind the breastplate by the rings thereof unto the rings of the ephod with a lace of blue, that it may be above the curious girdle of the ephod, and that the breastplate be not loosed from the ephod. (29) And Aaron shall bear the names of the children of Israel in the breastplate of judgment upon his heart, when he goeth in unto the holy place, for a memorial before the LORD continually. (30) And thou shalt put in the breastplate of judgment the Urim and the Thummim; and they shall be upon Aaron's heart, when he goeth in before the LORD: and Aaron shall bear the judgment of the children of Israel upon his heart before the LORD continually. (31) And thou shalt make the robe of the ephod all of blue. (32) And there shall be an hole in the top of it, in the midst thereof: it shall have a binding of woven work round about the hole of it, as it were the hole of an habergeon, that it be not rent. (33) And beneath upon the hem of it thou shalt make pomegranates of blue, and of purple, and of scarlet, round about the hem thereof; and bells of gold between them round about: (34) A golden bell and a pomegranate, a golden bell and a pomegranate, upon the hem of the robe round about. (35) And it shall be upon Aaron to minister: and his sound shall be heard when he goeth in unto the holy place before the LORD, and when he cometh out, that he die not. (36) And thou shalt make a plate of pure gold, and grave upon it, like the engravings of a signet, HOLINESS TO THE LORD. (37) And thou shalt put it on a blue lace, that it may be upon the mitre; upon the forefront of the mitre it shall be. (38) And it shall be upon Aaron's forehead, that Aaron may bear the iniquity of the holy things, which the children of Israel shall hallow in all their holy gifts; and it shall be always upon his forehead, that they may be accepted before the LORD. (39) And thou shalt embroider the coat of fine linen, and thou shalt make the mitre of fine linen, and thou shalt make the girdle of needlework. (40) And for Aaron's sons thou shalt make coats, and thou shalt make for them girdles, and bonnets shalt thou make for them, for glory and for beauty.

Since the high priest wore GLORY AND BEAUTY outside the most holy place, and not inside, we see the New Testament statement in view as follows:

1Co 1:29 KJV That no flesh should glory in his presence.



When you look closely the colours of the high priest were the precise same colours of the overall tabernacle:

Exo 26:1 KJV Moreover thou shalt make the tabernacle with ten curtains of fine twined linen, and blue, and purple, and scarlet: with cherubims of cunning work shalt thou make them.

Exo 26:6 KJV And thou shalt make fifty taches of gold, and couple the curtains together with the taches: and it shall be one tabernacle.

Exo 26:31 KJV And thou shalt make a vail of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen of cunning work: with cherubims shall it be made:


So it is like the HIGH PRIEST ALONE represented the overall tabernacle itself! And this is significant. The TABERNACLE of God is what the HUMANITY OF JESUS was implied to be in John 1:14.

Joh 1:14 KJV And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt [LITERALLY: "TABERNACLED"] among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

And Hebrews 9 claims the TRUE holiest of holies is Heaven itself.

Heb 9:24 KJV For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:


So it is like HEAVEN ITSELF came down to earth in Jesus Christ, and the fullness of the Godhead was in Him bodily. He was the most holy place with God's glory inside while he was on earth. WE BEHELD HIS GLORY. The colours were FOR GLORY AND BEAUTY. These colours were for TIMES OUTSIDE THE MOST HOLY PLACE, indicating Christ's INCARNATION outside of Heaven itself.

Some thoughts, anyway.

[mfblume]

Well the rope and bells myth held a lot of weight to many b/c it allowed them to tie it to receiving the Holy Ghost evidenced with tongues.

If you heard the bells...the sacrifice was accepted and the people were "saved" another year. If you heard tongues, the person had received the gift and was saved. The flip being that if you heard no bells/tongues...the person was still dead/unsaved.

That still works, though. And I see a genuine type there. They just have the timing wrong.

No man could be in the tabernacle when the high priest made atonement. And although he took off the colours and bells before he went into the most holy place, he put them on again after the atonement was made on the mercyseat so they could hear the tongues ringing the bless after the atonement was successful.

And it might even be a bit more ONENESS than one might realize. Jesus IS THE HOLY GHOST. The Holy Ghost was given because ATONEMENT was accepted. And Since the Spirit is JESUS anyway, coming back out of the holiest as high priest with the bells and their tongues being worn after exiting the holiest could typify the speaking in tongues as the Spirit of Jesus filled them!

[Digging4Truth]

The whole post is an enjoyable read Brother Blume.

Could you share with me the end result of what you have stated about the Holy Place and the Holiest of Holies?

As a preterist what does it mean for us if the Holiest of Holies is heaven?

Is that something we have now?
Do we have access to both? (Holy Place & Holiest of Holies)
If so... where do they differ?

I apologize for asking so many questions but I appreciate your effort and input.

I wish I still had Brother Smiths tape on the Ephod etc

[mfblume]

The whole post is an enjoyable read Brother Blume.

Could you share with me the end result of what you have stated about the Holy Place and the Holiest of Holies?

As a preterist what does it mean for us if the Holiest of Holies is heaven?

Is that something we have now?
Do we have access to both? (Holy Place & Holiest of Holies)
If so... where do they differ?

I apologize for asking so many questions but I appreciate your effort and input.

I wish I still had Brother Smiths tape on the Ephod etc

The holiest is indeed heaven. And yes we have access to the holiest due to the cross opening up the veil.

I think this is why we are said to be seated together with him in heavenly places. We are in the direct presence of God. And somehow this relates to OUR HEARTS being the holiest as well. Notice that the ark of the covenant was sprinkled by the blood, and Hebrews teaches our hearts are sprinkled from an evil conscience like the mercyseat of the ark was sprinkled in the holiest. It is like OUR HEARTS and HEAVEN become ONE. There is a VEIL ON THE HEART that is removed as well as the holiest being heaven.


Heb 10:22 KJV Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Lev 16:14 KJV And he shall take of the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle it with his finger upon the mercy seat eastward; and before the mercy seat shall he sprinkle of the blood with his finger seven times.

Exo 26:33 KJV And thou shalt hang up the vail under the taches, that thou mayest bring in thither within the vail the ark of the testimony: and the vail shall divide unto you between the holy place and the most holy.

2Co 3:15-16 KJV But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. (16) Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.



And I would not say we have access to BOTH holiest and holy places now, because Hebrews 9 actually teaches THE FIRST TABERNACLE IS REMOVED. That holy place is removed.

Heb 9:8 KJV The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:


The first tabernacle is the holy place.

Heb 9:2-3 KJV For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary. (3) And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;


So in order to enter the SECOND, which is the most holy place, the FIRST COULD NOT BE STANDING. That means there is no candlestick, table, altar of incense, lave and altar any more. It's like all that is left is the HOLIEST OF HOLIES. No outer court and not holy place.

And this is in view in Revelation. In chapter 4, before the lamb goes and makes atonement in chapter 5, there is the seven lamps (candlesticks), 24 seats (Table), cherubims (4 beasts on the veil), etc. But after chapter 5 there is none of these things in Revelation 21, and the CITY is the FOURSQUARE CUBE OF THE HOLIEST OF HOLIES.

[mfblume]

Hebrews 6 also speaks of us following Jesus BEHIND THE VEIL.

Heb 6:19-20 KJV Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; (20) Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.


This is what Hebrews 4 was speaking about in referring to entering THE REST. The mercySEAT is a place of SEATING because the WORK IS OVER.

Heb 10:11-13 KJV And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: (12) But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; (13) From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.


I once preached a message, PLEASE REMAIN SEATED SO GOD CAN BRING DOWN YOUR ENEMIES.

We are seated with Him. And seating indicates the work is done. THE SON WAS TOLD TO BE SEATED until the Father makes His enemies His footstool.

Psa 110:1 KJV A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Eph 2:6 KJV And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:



Jesus as SON sits patiently KNOWING the enemies will be made his footstool. he is confident. he is seated. He knows the work is done. We need that same assurance. REMAIN SEATED knowing the work is done and we need not scurry around in a frenzy worried about our enemies like something more need sot be done BY OUR FLESH.

[Digging4Truth]

So, in essence, the Holy Place is the Law (OT Salvation) and the Holiest of Holies is salvation by the work of the cross (NT Salvation). This is what I gather from your posts so far.

[Digging4Truth]

Hebrews 6 also speaks of us following Jesus BEHIND THE VEIL.

Heb 6:19-20 KJV Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; (20) Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.


This is what Hebrews 4 was speaking about in referring to entering THE REST. The mercySEAT is a place of SEATING because the WORK IS OVER.

Heb 10:11-13 KJV And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: (12) But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; (13) From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.


I once preached a message, PLEASE REMAIN SEATED SO GOD CAN BRING DOWN YOUR ENEMIES.

We are seated with Him. And seating indicates the work is done. THE SON WAS TOLD TO BE SEATED until the Father makes His enemies His footstool.

Psa 110:1 KJV A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Eph 2:6 KJV And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:



Jesus as SON sits patiently KNOWING the enemies will be made his footstool. he is confident. he is seated. He knows the work is done. We need that same assurance. REMAIN SEATED knowing the work is done and we need not scurry around in a frenzy worried about our enemies like something more need sot be done BY OUR FLESH.

Excellent

[mfblume]

So, in essence, the Holy Place is the Law (OT Salvation) and the Holiest of Holies is salvation by the work of the cross (NT Salvation). This is what I gather from your posts so far.

Yes, and I honestly think that is what Hebrews 8 through 9 is trying to say. Notice the references to FIRST and SECOND.

Heb 8:13-9:10 KJV In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. (9:1) Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. (2) For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary. (3) And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all; (4) Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant; (5) And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly. (6) Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God. (7) But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people: (8) The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: (9) Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; (10) Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.


The first and second tabernacles are mentioned in context of the first and second covenants. Splitting up the two chapters removes that appearance. And that is why the 10th verse says the old covenant ordinances were imposed UNTIL Jesus entered the holiest and removed the veil!

If the FIRST COVENANT had ordinances and the SECOND COVENANT DOES NOT, then the first has been removed! That is why Heb 9 says the first tabernacle is removed as well!

[Digging4Truth]

Yes, and I honestly think that is what Hebrews 8 through 9 is trying to say. Notice the references to FIRST and SECOND.

Heb 8:13-9:10 KJV In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. (9:1) Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. (2) For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary. (3) And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all; (4) Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant; (5) And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly. (6) Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God. (7) But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people: (8) The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: (9) Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; (10) Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.


The first and second tabernacles are mentioned in context of the first and second covenants. Splitting up the two chapters removes that appearance. And that is why the 10th verse says the old covenant ordinances were imposed UNTIL Jesus entered the holiest and removed the veil!

If the FIRST COVENANT had ordinances and the SECOND COVENANT DOES NOT, then the first has been removed! That is why Heb 9 says the first tabernacle is removed as well!

I am so glad I asked. I love this type of study. There is so much more to the word of God than we get with a simple cursory reading.

[mfblume]

What is scary about this is that those who propose a dispensational millennium with carnal ordinances of divine service occurring during a millennium are actually implying the Lord's atonement is going to be abbrogated and done away with, requiring the very things that were only imposed UNTIL the reformation of Christ's ascension into heaven to be imposed again!!!!

[mfblume]

I am so glad I asked. I love this type of study. There is so much more to the word of God than we get with a simple cursory reading.

Yes it is an awesome study! Thanks for bringing this issue up.

[mfblume]

Here is something to ponder. Heb 8 speaks of the FIRST COVENANT waxing old and ready to vanish, and Heb 1 speaks of the HEAVENS AND EARTH waxing old.

Heb 8:13 KJV In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Heb 1:10-12 KJV And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: (11) They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; (12) And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.


Could Hebrews, which is about the BETTER COVENANT, have meant the TWO heavens and earth stand for the covenants? OLD and NEW COVENANTS, and OLD and NEW HEAVENS AND EARTH?

Isa 51:16 KJV And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.

[mfblume]

If a person studies the book of HEBREWS, you will find it is all about getting into the most holy place spiritually speaking, as though it is a place of spiritual maturity. Anyone wanting to read an ASTOUNDING study on it, get THE HOLIEST OF ALL by Andrew Murray. It is online free to download.

http://www.archive.org/details/TheHoliestOfAll

IT IS HEAVY reading, be warned. Whew. What depth the guy had about that issue. Excellent stuff!

[Digging4Truth]

Here is something to ponder. Heb 8 speaks of the FIRST COVENANT waxing old and ready to vanish, and Heb 1 speaks of the HEAVENS AND EARTH waxing old.

Heb 8:13 KJV In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Heb 1:10-12 KJV And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: (11) They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; (12) And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.


Could Hebrews, which is about the BETTER COVENANT, have meant the TWO heavens and earth stand for the covenants? OLD and NEW COVENANTS, and OLD and NEW HEAVENS AND EARTH?

Isa 51:16 KJV And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.


BIG far stretch... but when I read about folding up the garment that had grown old I thought of these scriptures and I wondered if they related at all.

Isa 34:4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling [fig] from the fig tree.

Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

[Digging4Truth]

I taught on a lot of this in my sunday school class today and ended talking toward the end about remaining seated. I talked about how we can handle things on our feet... ie I'm going to handle this mysel... I'll give them a piece of my mind... Just wait until I see them again. Or we can handle this seated... resting... waiting on God to do the work because we don't fight against flesh & blood but against principalities & power. When we fight on our feet we have forgotten that because we are are battling flesh.

Anyway. It was a good lesson and it has made me want to dig further into all of this. I have a lot of studying to do.

Thanks for your thoughts and feel free to share any other thoughts as well. This has been a blessing to me.

[mfblume]

I taught similarly a while back and called the message, "PLEASE REMAIN SEATED SO GOD CAN BRING DOWN YOUR ENEMIES". Title says it all.

[mfblume]

While studying Heb 9, I noticed that the blood of Jesus is really brought to the forefront. We know the holiest was a model of heaven on earth. The high priest went into the figure of the true when he entered the holiest. Jesus went into Heaven itself. But the MODEL on earth of heaven could only be entered once a year for a few minutes by one man from one nation. Hebrews says this indicated that way into the holiest was not available.

It was because of the poor quality of the animal sacrifices that this was so. And that was for 1,500 years they had these things, never ending.

But Jesus sacrificed himself ONCE, and opened up, not the model of heaven on earth, but heaven itself! If the blood of animals could not even get the single nation of Israel into the model of heaven, and Christ's blood opened the way up for all the world of every nation to heaven, itself, how much greater and how perfect is the blood of Jesus?

Heb 9-10 is relating these truths to us so we can see THIS SWORD OF THE WORD cut away our unbelief so we can have boldness to enter the holiest of heaven by a new and living way!

Wow, what kind of perfection did Jesus have to accomplish that?

[Esther]

Something interesting someone pointed out recently, that when the Veil was rent, from the top down, when Jesus was crucified was when the Ark of the Covenant was not behind the Veil.