Original Sin

[Sheila]

This is what I think Original sin was (very first sin)---Disobedience
God said DO NOT eat of the tree of knowledge and they did. Everything that is contrary to the will of God is sin, so disobedience has to be what original sin is, doesn't it? Does anyone else think something different?
I believe that this disobedience led to an awareness of self (Genesis 3:11--thought they could chose for themselves, that they knew better than God) that led to self Idolatry (self-worship) with I want--I need, etc that in turn has led to greed, lust, jealousy, and etc of monstrous proportions in the world today. Any opinions?

[TGBTG]

Romans 5
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

20Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

21That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

[The Matt]

Well put, that's how I feel as well. All sin can be thought of as disobedience, contrary to the words God commanded.

[Sheila]

Thank you and Jesus Bless You.

[Dedicated Mind]

i think original sin is the carnal nature that was awakened when adam and eve disobeyed and passed to all subsequent humanity. an ego that thinks of self instead of being god conscious.

[bbyrd009]

For what it's worth, Proverbs defines "a tree of life" as "hope fulfilled," which I actually meant to insert into the current thread where "tree of life" was mentioned, but can't find it now.

[bbyrd009]

This is what I think Original sin was (very first sin)---Disobedience
God said DO NOT eat of the tree of knowledge and they did. Everything that is contrary to the will of God is sin, so disobedience has to be what original sin is, doesn't it? Does anyone else think something different?
I believe that this disobedience led to an awareness of self (Genesis 3:11--thought they could chose for themselves, that they knew better than God) that led to self Idolatry (self-worship) with I want--I need, etc that in turn has led to greed, lust, jealousy, and etc of monstrous proportions in the world today. Any opinions?

And, I'll point out here, although I'm going way out on a limb, surely, to people with an evolution dichotomy, which I lack, ty God, that "awareness of self" is the primary difference between us and the animals? If God chose to evolve us from apes, a scenario I find highly likely, you could hardly postulate a better creation story than Genesis (or, maybe the world really is only 6000 years old...).

[The Matt]

And, I'll point out here, although I'm going way out on a limb, surely, to people with an evolution dichotomy, which I lack, ty God, that "awareness of self" is the primary difference between us and the animals? If God chose to evolve us from apes, a scenario I find highly likely, you could hardly postulate a better creation story than Genesis (or, maybe the world really is only 6000 years old...).

I KNEW there was a reason I wanted to look up evolution tonight. :heeheehee

[Austin]

My personal concept of this sin is man in his weak condition unable on his own to fulfill the perfect will of God. He is unable to resist temptation when it comes and he is weak in his abilities to reconize trtuh in a real way which is knowing something instead of just having a knowledge of it.

[bbyrd009]

I KNEW there was a reason I wanted to look up evolution tonight. :heeheehee

Amen; may it lead you into a fuller knowledge of Truth.

[forgivenson]

Ok....this is something I have thought long and hard about.

Gen 2:17 "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

What is this tree and it's fruit? Better yet, what is it's equivalent today?
1. We know that firstly it is the 'act of' disobeying God.
#2......more specifically....I believe it is taking upon ourselves, Gods authority to 'judge'. (the knowledge of good and evil)
I could go on about how this has come into play with my personal ministry, but I would sum up my conclusion....and my salvation from original sin, I obey Revelation 22:17.

[bbyrd009]

I think you nailed it. I see it as an inevitable consequence of self-consciousness, the granting of free will that we took, after being told of the consequences. Now you must face judgement, because now you know judgement, whereas before you did not.

[mfblume]

Romans 5
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

20Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

21That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Amen. Man was good. No flaw in him originally. Sin entered due to disobedience and we were sonce infected from birth. I stress Adam was created good. No flaw.

[Timmy]

Amen. Man was good. No flaw in him originally. Sin entered due to disobedience and we were sonce infected from birth. I stress Adam was created good. No flaw.

Why would someone with "no flaw in him" decide to disobey?

[The Matt]

Why would someone with "no flaw in him" decide to disobey?

Adam and Eve didn't know sin until the devil introduced it to them. She didn't know TO taste the fruit until tempted. When an outside influence is introduced, it sometimes tempts us. The temptation wasn't there until the devil introduced it. So I say they were flawless until the flaw was introduced.

[Timmy]

Adam and Eve didn't know sin until the devil introduced it to them. She didn't know TO taste the fruit until tempted. When an outside influence is introduced, it sometimes tempts us. The temptation wasn't there until the devil introduced it. So I say they were flawless until the flaw was introduced.

So why does everyone blame A&E for bringing sin into the world, when it was the serpent's fault?

[bbyrd009]

Because A&E chose to bite?

[Hoovie]

Why would someone with "no flaw in him" decide to disobey?

...there was a wild card...

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z116/luckysweep/thumbnail.jpg

[The Matt]

So why does everyone blame A&E for bringing sin into the world, when it was the serpent's fault?

Adam and Eve were given free will, just like us. The way I've always looked at life is mankind was God's test. Adam and Eve were the first test takers, they got low grades, and mankind is suffering for it. Desiring a better relationship with Him, getting lost in His word (don't you dare turn my words on me), :heeheehee prayer, having faith, and fasting are some of the ways we can begin to "pass". Does this mean they were flawed? Of course not, free will isn't a flaw, it's like...ugh I'm not good with words. It's just a test to see if we will make the right decisions, given opposing decisions. Does that make any sense?

[Timmy]

...there was a wild card...

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z116/luckysweep/thumbnail.jpg

That reminds me, do you think the serpent in Genesis actually was the devil? I've always thought so, but then someone pointed out that the Bible doesn't say that. It just talks about the serpent, and any inference of who/what that serpent really was is just speculation.

[bbyrd009]

Hmm, well, it asked Eve if she wanted a bite, and she felt guilty enough to cover her privates later...could "serpent" be a euphemism for, um, "snake?"

[Timmy]

Hmm, well, it asked Eve if she wanted a bite, and she felt guilty enough to cover her privates later...could "serpent" be a euphemism for, um, "snake?"

Uhhhhh.....

[bbyrd009]

Ha it's just too elegant for me; answers too many questions. Has to be something.

[TGBTG]

That reminds me, do you think the serpent in Genesis actually was the devil? I've always thought so, but then someone pointed out that the Bible doesn't say that. It just talks about the serpent, and any inference of who/what that serpent really was is just speculation.

Rev 12
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

[Timmy]

Rev 12
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Oh yeah, there's that. ;)

[bbyrd009]

Yup; but we have to translate a spiritual serpent, satan, into what is an actual serpent, at least on first read--we assume the serpent Eve was talking with was physical, right?

[The Matt]

Yup; but we have to translate a spiritual serpent, satan, into what is an actual serpent, at least on first read--we assume the serpent Eve was talking with was physical, right?

God: *Facepalm* I will have to create more luck for myself next go round.

[bbyrd009]

I don't mean I believe that; I mean that is the way the story reads, and we have to find the correct meaning for the fruit.

[mfblume]

Why would someone with "no flaw in him" decide to disobey?

Eve was deceived, Adam was not. Go figure.

[bbyrd009]

Hmm...really?

[J4Truth]

I always wondered if Adam and Eve ever asked for forgiveness, repentance and if they had would things been different? Would God have forgave them then and there and would it have a made a difference in the later outcomes of life concerning the curse? We know now that God wants a repentant people just wondering if it would have made a difference in the beginning.

[forgivenson]

Full-circle. In order to have the 'finale' of the greatest story on earth....it had to have a beginning.....and without the 'flaw'......if everything was perfect....no 'forward movement' would be needed. We tend to see this entire drama as something that took a long, long time....and we are foooled by time. 'This Adam'/me...did not begin a long long time ago.....but by man's clock, it did. In God's clock.....I am just now understanding the same things as Adam......and Jesus the end.

[bbyrd009]

Hmm. I would have characterized Christ as "beginning..." but I get you.

[forgivenson]

Amen. I get you too.. I was thinking of the beginning of man/Adam...but Jesus is the beginning and the end. That sure simplifies it.

[bertcarring]

This is what I think Original sin was (very first sin)---Disobedience
God said DO NOT eat of the tree of knowledge and they did. Everything that is contrary to the will of God is sin, so disobedience has to be what original sin is, doesn't it? Does anyone else think something different?
I believe that this disobedience led to an awareness of self (Genesis 3:11--thought they could chose for themselves, that they knew better than God) that led to self Idolatry (self-worship) with I want--I need, etc that in turn has led to greed, lust, jealousy, and etc of monstrous proportions in the world today. Any opinions?

Unbelief.

Their unbelief came first followed by their disobedience due to their unbelief.

[Amanah]

Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

[Lafon]

Why would someone with "no flaw in him" decide to disobey?

An excellent question, Timothy.

As the Scriptures clearly note, Satan never, no, not even once, attempted to entice Adam into disobeying God by eating the forbidden fruit. One must wonder why. Well, I am persuaded to believe that this was because he was well aware that God had spoken directly to Adam, therefore his chance of success, should he ever endeavor to do anything to entice him to disobey God, would be extremely limited, if not altogether fruitless. I'm confident that even you would never even consider disobeying God should it be that He ever spoke directly to you and commanded that you refrain from doing a certain thing.

So, what took place which caused Adam to willfully disregard God's prohibition concerning the fruit from the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil"? I think it can be attributed to the "natural" lust of the flesh; more specifically the eye. Adam, knowing that God had stated to him that "in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die," and after observing that Eve did not undergo the experience of death in that day in which she ate of this forbidden fruit, his eyes became the source through which he too was deceived - he deceived himself! The words of Ecclesiastes 8:11, I believe, establishes this as a factual truth:

"Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil."

Apparently Adam's failure to seek God's clarification of everything which His commandment encompassed - the length of a "day"; why Eve didn't immediately experience death, etc - but chose to rely upon the "natural" lust of his own flesh (eyes) in determining his course of action, he willingly elected to also partake of the forbidden fruit, and himself and each of his descendants - you and I - have been compelled to suffer the devastating consequences.

More often than not, mankind has continued since that time to rely upon this same "natural" instinct in their efforts to make the critical distinction between what is true or false, right or wrong, and only when one has been privileged to possess the indwelling Spirit as a Counsellor which they are able to seek His guidance in deciding things, they will always be inclined to make the wrong choice.

Again, just my thoughts submitted for your consideration of their merits.

[Lafon]

I always wondered if Adam and Eve ever asked for forgiveness, repentance and if they had would things been different? Would God have forgave them then and there and would it have a made a difference in the later outcomes of life concerning the curse? We know now that God wants a repentant people just wondering if it would have made a difference in the beginning.


Oh, but did not Adam repent of that sin which he had committed? Of course! What is repentance, if it be not the acknowledgment of having sinned, which Adam did in admitting that he had partaken of the forbidden fruit. Evidence of God's forgiveness of the willful sin which Adam (& Eve) had done, I believe, can be seen in the fact that they taught their children - Cain and Abel - concerning that which they must do to gain God's forgiveness for their sins. This is the act of "righteous" individuals, not unrepentant ones, for Jesus Himself has informed us that

"Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so, every good tree bringeth forth good fruit: but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot nring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit." (Matthew 7:16-18)

We know that Abel was "good fruit," for his name is found listed first among the notable persons whose unwavering faith in God is noted in Hebrews chapter 11, thereby providing yet further evidence of the "righteousness" of his godly parents, Adam and Eve.

Just my POV concerning this matter submitted for consideration of its merits.

[Timmy]

An excellent question, Timothy.

As the Scriptures clearly note, Satan never, no, not even once, attempted to entice Adam into disobeying God by eating the forbidden fruit. One must wonder why. Well, I am persuaded to believe that this was because he was well aware that God had spoken directly to Adam, therefore his chance of success, should he ever endeavor to do anything to entice him to disobey God, would be extremely limited, if not altogether fruitless. I'm confident that even you would never even consider disobeying God should it be that He ever spoke directly to you and commanded that you refrain from doing a certain thing.

So, what took place which caused Adam to willfully disregard God's prohibition concerning the fruit from the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil"? I think it can be attributed to the "natural" lust of the flesh; more specifically the eye. Adam, knowing that God had stated to him that "in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die," and after observing that Eve did not undergo the experience of death in that day in which she ate of this forbidden fruit, his eyes became the source through which he too was deceived - he deceived himself! The words of Ecclesiastes 8:11, I believe, establishes this as a factual truth:

"Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil."

Apparently Adam's failure to seek God's clarification of everything which His commandment encompassed - the length of a "day"; why Eve didn't immediately experience death, etc - but chose to rely upon the "natural" lust of his own flesh (eyes) in determining his course of action, he willingly elected to also partake of the forbidden fruit, and himself and each of his descendants - you and I - have been compelled to suffer the devastating consequences.

More often than not, mankind has continued since that time to rely upon this same "natural" instinct in their efforts to make the critical distinction between what is true or false, right or wrong, and only when one has been privileged to possess the indwelling Spirit as a Counsellor which they are able to seek His guidance in deciding things, they will always be inclined to make the wrong choice.

Again, just my thoughts submitted for your consideration of their merits.

Thanks for posting. But.... even I?! :lol

[Timmy]

Oh, but did not Adam repent of that sin which he had committed? Of course! What is repentance, if it be not the acknowledgment of having sinned, which Adam did in admitting that he had partaken of the forbidden fruit. Evidence of God's forgiveness of the willful sin which Adam (& Eve) had done, I believe, can be seen in the fact that they taught their children - Cain and Abel - concerning that which they must do to gain God's forgiveness for their sins. This is the act of "righteous" individuals, not unrepentant ones, for Jesus Himself has informed us that

"Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so, every good tree bringeth forth good fruit: but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot nring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit." (Matthew 7:16-18)

We know that Abel was "good fruit," for his name is found listed first among the notable persons whose unwavering faith in God is noted in Hebrews chapter 11, thereby providing yet further evidence of the "righteousness" of his godly parents, Adam and Eve.

Just my POV concerning this matter submitted for consideration of its merits.

Was Cain also good fruit? "A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit."

[Lafon]

Thanks for posting. But.... even I?! :lol

pun only intended there, Timmy... not an offence :smack :heeheehee

[Lafon]

Was Cain also good fruit? "A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit."

I suppose it might correctly be said that Cain was "good" fruit gone "bad," huh? His beginning was from a "good tree," just as was Abel, you know. :thumbsup

[Timmy]

I suppose it might correctly be said that Cain was "good" fruit gone "bad," huh? His beginning was from a "good tree," just as was Abel, you know. :thumbsup

Kinda weakens your point, though, doesn't it?

[Timmy]

pun only intended there, Timmy... not an offence :smack :heeheehee

:highfive