PDA

View Full Version : Time For Gun Laws To Get Some Teeth?


Hoovie
03-28-2012, 04:19 PM
What do you think? Given the tragic shooting in Flordia, should we work to have fewer guns in America? Is it time to repeal those experimental carry laws?

houston
03-28-2012, 05:00 PM
No. Enforce the laws that are on the books.

crakjak
03-28-2012, 05:36 PM
What do you think? Given the tragic shooting in Flordia, should we work to have fewer guns in America? Is it time to repeal those experimental carry laws?

No, are you turning liberal? I don't have a handgun, but I want the right to have one if I want one. Have many friends and family in Texas that has them.

houston
03-28-2012, 05:42 PM
Let's ignore that most gun crimes are committed by people that obtained guns illegaly.

canam
03-28-2012, 06:37 PM
What do you think? Given the tragic shooting in Flordia, should we work to have fewer guns in America? Is it time to repeal those experimental carry laws?

No this kid initiated the fight, unfortuantley for him he picked the wrong guy to mess with,all evidence points to this being justified.but you wont hear that from the msmnor will you hear about the two black kids who burned the white kid up in kansas and said you deserve it white boy

AreYouReady?
03-28-2012, 06:39 PM
And while law abiding citizens give up their guns, should the government decide to pass laws against guns in the hands of the citizenry, the criminals will not give their guns up.

Titus2woman
03-28-2012, 06:45 PM
Where it is criminal to have guns only criminals have guns. I love living somewhere that I know that while I am eating lunch in Luby's if someone goes on a shooting spree there will probably be at least 10 of us ready to drop him the first chance we get.

When I'm coming home late at night and have to stop at the corner store to get fuel and there are thugs hanging out looking scary and dangerous I like knowing that my .38 is neatly tucked in my bra holster and can be reached in 0.002 seconds.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Should we make knives, machetes, poison, baseball bats, crowbars, and every other thing that can kill a human illegal?... NO.

I think that every mentally stable, morally upright person should have a gun. There would be a lot less chance of someone sticking up the local convenience store if the would be robber knew that the granny behind him was going to put a frangable round in his back.

Give me guns and more guns.

AreYouReady?
03-28-2012, 07:39 PM
Where it is criminal to have guns only criminals have guns. I love living somewhere that I know that while I am eating lunch in Luby's if someone goes on a shooting spree there will probably be at least 10 of us ready to drop him the first chance we get.

When I'm coming home late at night and have to stop at the corner store to get fuel and there are thugs hanging out looking scary and dangerous I like knowing that my .38 is neatly tucked in my bra holster and can be reached in 0.002 seconds.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Should we make knives, machetes, poison, baseball bats, crowbars, and every other thing that can kill a human illegal?... NO.

I think that every mentally stable, morally upright person should have a gun. There would be a lot less chance of someone sticking up the local convenience store if the would be robber knew that the granny behind him was going to put a frangable round in his back.

Give me guns and more guns.

It's not criminal to have guns. Switzerland requires every man to own a gun and they go through continuous gun training. There are virtually no gun crimes in that country.

Hoovie
03-28-2012, 08:27 PM
What do you think? Given the tragic shooting in Flordia, should we work to have fewer guns in America? Is it time to repeal those experimental carry laws?

I was actually going to let this thread roll a bit before putting in my 2 cents...
But I can't do it. There really are political, anti-gun opportunists using the Florida tragedy to call for a return to the anti-gun stances of the 90's.

My personal view is that John Lott was and still is right. He is the author of More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun Control Laws (Studies in Law and Economics)

I personally worked hard to pass our Missouri RTC, and even organized pro RTC rallies for the public. This, in spite of the fact that I lean pacifist personally. Right to Carry Laws have had tremendous impact in lowering Violent Crime and has resulted in less, not more, deaths.

It is a shame some politicians and community leaders are using Trayvon's death to vie for an upper hand in the gun debate - not to mention they are wrong.

Titus2woman
03-28-2012, 09:06 PM
This, in spite of the fact that I lean pacifist personally.


Ironically I also consider myself to have a pacifist lean. I hate war and I hate killing or really violence of any kind. I do not even like violent games or sports. People beating each other up in the name of sport is beyond sick to me.

But if Mr. Criminal comes creeping around here at night when I am the only adult on the property or commits an act of violence against an innocent with a weapon in my presence, I am going to plug him with a hollow point or worse. I will deal with how I feel about it afterward. And regardless of how I feel, Mr. Criminal will still be dead, even if I need therapy to get over it.

I am too old to run or fight, therefore I shoot.

commonsense
03-28-2012, 09:45 PM
Let's ignore that most gun crimes are committed by people that obtained guns illegaly.

:thumbsup

RandyWayne
03-28-2012, 09:46 PM
"When guns are outlawed, the only ones who will have them are Outlaws."

Austin
03-29-2012, 05:35 AM
I have a gun that's been in and out of my holster for 36 years and it has not killed anyone yet.
People are the problem.

Austin
03-29-2012, 05:37 AM
"When guns are outlawed, the only ones who will have them are Outlaws."

And that is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth :nod!!!

Esther
03-29-2012, 10:24 AM
What do you think? Given the tragic shooting in Flordia, should we work to have fewer guns in America? Is it time to repeal those experimental carry laws?

Absolutely NOT!!!!

Should we outlaw cars so drunk drivers can't kill?

Hoovie
03-29-2012, 10:39 AM
I was actually going to let this thread roll a bit before putting in my 2 cents...
But I can't do it. There really are political, anti-gun opportunists using the Florida tragedy to call for a return to the anti-gun stances of the 90's.

My personal view is that John Lott was and still is right. He is the author of More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun Control Laws (Studies in Law and Economics)

I personally worked hard to pass our Missouri RTC, and even organized pro RTC rallies for the public. This, in spite of the fact that I lean pacifist personally. Right to Carry Laws have had tremendous impact in lowering Violent Crime and has resulted in less, not more, deaths.

It is a shame some politicians and community leaders are using Trayvon's death to vie for an upper hand in the gun debate - not to mention they are wrong.

Repost! LOL!

KWSS1976
03-29-2012, 10:51 AM
Where is Uncle Ted when you need him...lol

http://bradfordschmidt.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/ted-nugent-wild-hunting-adventure.jpg

Jay
03-29-2012, 06:06 PM
I am in favor of enforcing the present laws. There is no need to enact more laws that are merely vain repetitions of those already in place.

AreYouReady?
03-29-2012, 07:20 PM
Absolutely NOT!!!!

Should we outlaw cars so drunk drivers can't kill?

Yep. Even prohibition did not work.

AreYouReady?
03-29-2012, 07:23 PM
I am in favor of enforcing the present laws. There is no need to enact more laws that are merely vain repetitions of those already in place.

Wow! What a concept. Enforce laws already on the books. Who'da guessed?

Seriously though, there is another agenda for the reason why certain laws are not already enforced...such as gun laws and immigration laws. They just aren't going to tell us why they won't enforce them.

Jay
03-29-2012, 07:59 PM
I find it interesting that Zimmerman is a Democrat.

Hoovie
03-29-2012, 08:14 PM
I find it interesting that Zimmerman is a Democrat.

It's underreported along with the fact that he is Hispanic, that he sustained injuries prior to defending himself, the he mentors black children.

Jermyn Davidson
03-30-2012, 11:56 PM
Guns don't kill people. People kill people.

Some people shouldn't be allowed to own guns, but most Americans are peaceful and responsible.

Esther
03-31-2012, 08:22 AM
People that are against citizens owning guns needs to read their history of the countries that took away gun rights of the citizens and next all their rights and communism took over.

That is the reason the framers gave citizens the right to bear arms, to keep the government in line.

Barb
03-31-2012, 10:30 AM
People that are against citizens owning guns needs to read their history of the countries that took away gun rights of the citizens and next all their rights and communism took over.

That is the reason the framers gave citizens the right to bear arms, to keep the government in line.

Not so, Esther.

The framers gave citizens the right to bear arms for their own preservation...food, fighting Indians, and the British.

They could not have foreseen a day like today...

Hoovie
03-31-2012, 10:41 AM
British... Or in the general sense, government tyranny.

CC1
03-31-2012, 11:45 AM
Where it is criminal to have guns only criminals have guns. I love living somewhere that I know that while I am eating lunch in Luby's if someone goes on a shooting spree there will probably be at least 10 of us ready to drop him the first chance we get.

When I'm coming home late at night and have to stop at the corner store to get fuel and there are thugs hanging out looking scary and dangerous I like knowing that my .38 is neatly tucked in my bra holster and can be reached in 0.002 seconds.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Should we make knives, machetes, poison, baseball bats, crowbars, and every other thing that can kill a human illegal?... NO.

I think that every mentally stable, morally upright person should have a gun. There would be a lot less chance of someone sticking up the local convenience store if the would be robber knew that the granny behind him was going to put a frangable round in his back.

Give me guns and more guns.

Ditto me on this post except I don't keep a gun in a bra holster!:thumbsup

bbyrd009
03-31-2012, 11:58 AM
Not so, Esther.

The framers gave citizens the right to bear arms for their own preservation...food, fighting Indians, and the British.

They could not have foreseen a day like today...


Mmm, I don't know; "A republic, if you can hang on to it" seems pretty prescient to me; and i think I could dig up some other quotes that indicate that our own Gov's future tyranny was precisely why guns allowed...

bbyrd009
03-31-2012, 12:12 PM
Where it is criminal to have guns only criminals have guns. I love living somewhere that I know that while I am eating lunch in Luby's if someone goes on a shooting spree there will probably be at least 10 of us ready to drop him the first chance we get.

When I'm coming home late at night and have to stop at the corner store to get fuel and there are thugs hanging out looking scary and dangerous I like knowing that my .38 is neatly tucked in my bra holster and can be reached in 0.002 seconds.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Should we make knives, machetes, poison, baseball bats, crowbars, and every other thing that can kill a human illegal?... NO.

I think that every mentally stable, morally upright person should have a gun. There would be a lot less chance of someone sticking up the local convenience store if the would be robber knew that the granny behind him was going to put a frangable round in his back.

Give me guns and more guns.

I don't think guns should exist; unlike your other examples, handguns have no purpose but to kill other people. Since they do, I agree with you, and find any law to the contrary completely irrelevant. Sadly, even the Swedish model is apparently insufficient, as recent events illuminate.

I also think "WWJS," what would Jesus shoot, is irrelevant here, but I'm having a minor problem justifying why. Because Grace is not immediately effective in a Luby's shooting spree scenario, maybe? I don't know--

Weird, the end here for me is Life--that everyone own a gun, and no one gets shot, lol. No issues there? Quite revealing of our pov v God's.

Hoovie
03-31-2012, 01:03 PM
Ditto me on this post except I don't keep a gun in a bra holster!:thumbsup

Cmon CC1! you can tell us - we are your friends.

Barb
03-31-2012, 04:28 PM
British... Or in the general sense, government tyranny.

Mmm, I don't know; "A republic, if you can hang on to it" seems pretty prescient to me; and i think I could dig up some other quotes that indicate that our own Gov's future tyranny was precisely why guns allowed...

You may quote anyone or anything you choose. The point is, that was then and this is now.

They were forming a new and more perfect union.

What in the world does that have to do with handguns for Joe Q. Public in 20012? :foottap

Hoovie
03-31-2012, 05:21 PM
You may quote anyone or anything you choose. The point is, that was then and this is now.

They were forming a new and more perfect union.

What in the world does that have to do with handguns for Joe Q. Public in 20012? :foottap

Not sure what you are getting at Barb. Are you questioning the entirety of the second ammendment, or some thing else in particular?

bbyrd009
03-31-2012, 07:16 PM
You may quote anyone or anything you choose. The point is, that was then and this is now.

They were forming a new and more perfect union.

What in the world does that have to do with handguns for Joe Q. Public in 20012? :foottap

Oh, I agree, I think...the reality is that now bad guys, mostly, have guns.
Typically, I think, something that existed for a good (human) reason then,
now can not have an inspired solution, imo.

Hoovie
03-31-2012, 08:18 PM
Lucky for us it does work. While it's not a perfect system, the second amendment guarantees the right of good people to protect themselves. More guns in the hands of law abiding citizens = less crime. This is particularly true for handguns and right to carry laws.

Titus2woman
03-31-2012, 09:01 PM
Ditto me on this post except I don't keep a gun in a bra holster!:thumbsup

Have you seen Thunderwear?

Hoovie
03-31-2012, 09:56 PM
Have you seen Thunderwear?

Uh,... I have heard of thunder thighs...

Barb
03-31-2012, 10:25 PM
Oh, I agree, I think...the reality is that now bad guys, mostly, have guns.
Typically, I think, something that existed for a good (human) reason then,
now can not have an inspired solution, imo.

:thumbsup

Barb
03-31-2012, 10:30 PM
Lucky for us it does work. While it's not a perfect system, the second amendment guarantees the right of good people to protect themselves. More guns in the hands of law abiding citizens = less crime. This is particularly true for handguns and right to carry laws.

I totally disagree...don't even like it when little kids have toy guns, but that is just my opinion.

As I know this is a subject people strongly about, including myself, and as we are not going to change each others view, I will bow out.

I don't normally jump in on topics much any more anyway, but this is something, as I said, I feel strongly about.

Hoovie
04-01-2012, 12:17 AM
I totally disagree...don't even like it when little kids have toy guns, but that is just my opinion.

As I know this is a subject people strongly about, including myself, and as we are not going to change each others view, I will bow out.

I don't normally jump in on topics much any more anyway, but this is something, as I said, I feel strongly about.

My background is pacifist, so perhaps I can relate more than you think.

For example, I agree that children should never point guns at each other. Killing is not some thing to play around with, and my children are taught against that.

The facts however, are clear. The states that adopted RTC laws have seen a marked decrease in violent crime and murder.

RandyWayne
04-05-2012, 04:16 PM
My background is pacifist, so perhaps I can relate more than you think.

For example, I agree that children should never point guns at each other. Killing is not some thing to play around with, and my children are taught against that.

The facts however, are clear. The states that adopted RTC laws have seen a marked decrease in violent crime and murder.

Arizona is one of the top states for respecting 2nd Amendment rights. We are near the BOTTOM when it comes to gun violence as it relates to "normal" crimes such as robberies, general assaults, muggings, etc. Now we do have this tiny issue as it relates to Mexican drug cartels (thank you AG Holder!) which can skew the statistics but it has nothing to do with the type of general crime you would see in a place like, oh, DC or Chicago -places with the strictest hand gun laws in the states.

Jay
04-06-2012, 01:12 PM
My background is pacifist, so perhaps I can relate more than you think.

For example, I agree that children should never point guns at each other. Killing is not some thing to play around with, and my children are taught against that.

The facts however, are clear. The states that adopted RTC laws have seen a marked decrease in violent crime and murder.




My mom issued that decree once, but it did not stick. I have seen other parents attempt to enforce this rule, but it mainly made them look foolish as we took our play to another area where we could play as we liked. We pointed those cap guns at one another constantly. None of us who grew up playing with those toys and pointing them at each other have ever harmed another person via gun violence and would only do so the protect life, liberty, or property. Further, I have never known of another kid who did that who used guns violently either (statement made with limited knowledge). There is far more evidence for violent movies and video games leading to violent behavior than there is for kids who point toy guns at one another.

We were also taught the difference between the toy and a truly functional gun. As we became old enough to handle them, we were given pellet guns to shoot. However, we were told that these were never to be pointed at one another for any reason, and sitting would have been beyond our capacity had we ever dared to break this restriction. However, we were allowed to shoot at soda bottles and target animals. I also remember shoot bbs at mud puddles, an old abandoned car (we were chastised for that), the Wyoming state bird (my younger brother did that and then had to promplty bury it), the very steep side of a hill in Wyoming that was home to an incredible swarm of wasps (we were not stung as it was late October or early November so the wasps were very sluggish making them easy to kill, we also were rebuked for doing this).

Hoovie
04-06-2012, 01:36 PM
My mom issued that decree once, but it did not stick. I have seen other parents attempt to enforce this rule, but it mainly made them look foolish as we took our play to another area where we could play as we liked. We pointed those cap guns at one another constantly. None of us who grew up playing with those toys and pointing them at each other have ever harmed another person via gun violence and would only do so the protect life, liberty, or property. Further, I have never known of another kid who did that who used guns violently either (statement made with limited knowledge). There is far more evidence for violent movies and video games leading to violent behavior than there is for kids who point toy guns at one another.

We were also taught the difference between the toy and a truly functional gun. As we became old enough to handle them, we were given pellet guns to shoot. However, we were told that these were never to be pointed at one another for any reason, and sitting would have been beyond our capacity had we ever dared to break this restriction. However, we were allowed to shoot at soda bottles and target animals. I also remember shoot bbs at mud puddles, an old abandoned car (we were chastised for that), the Wyoming state bird (my younger brother did that and then had to promplty bury it), the very steep side of a hill in Wyoming that was home to an incredible swarm of wasps (we were not stung as it was late October or early November so the wasps were very sluggish making them easy to kill, we also were rebuked for doing this).

ALL the children I grew up with were not permitted to "kill" each other. However, I really did not mean to say it leads to actual violence... just that killing people is serious adult discussion. We do not allow the kids to simulate sex acts either.

Jay
04-06-2012, 01:53 PM
I am not attempting to be critical of all parents who forbid the practice, however we were not given a pacifistic upbringing. My maternal grandfather was a Marine sniper who had served in Vietnam (I also believe in Korea but need to verify first). Dad, his father, my brother, various cousins, my mother's father, and her brother were hunters. So we were raised from the time we were small children with proper gun safety and ettiquette.

If our play was a bit more agressive in some forms than what others were, perhaps it was because that is a good part of the way a boy is made. It was certainly less dangerous than what my father and grandfathers did when they were our ages.

My view of tthe situation is that life is tough, and a boy especially is going to need to let out a good bit of the steam that builds in them. as long as the play is not truly violent or dangerous, then there is no need to interfere. This of course is likely a product of my own raising.

RandyWayne
04-06-2012, 01:56 PM
I've fired many weapon-like devices at other people starting with the ever present squirt gun in many of its forms, followed by the ORIGINAL lazer tag from the 80's, leading to the ultimate sport, paintball.

Paintball was instrumental in disproving every kids fantasy about standing out in the open pegging bad guys all the while they are shooting at you and not being able to hit. The opponent/enemy IS able to hit you and hit you often!

Hoovie
04-06-2012, 01:58 PM
I am not attempting to be critical of all parents who forbid the practice, however we were not given a pacifistic upbringing. My maternal grandfather was a Marine sniper who had served in Vietnam (I also believe in Korea but need to verify first). Dad, his father, my brother, various cousins, my mother's father, and her brother were hunters. So we were raised from the time we were small children with proper gun safety and ettiquette.

If our play was a bit more agressive in some forms than what others were, perhaps it was because that is a good part of the way a boy is made. It was certainly less dangerous than what my father and grandfathers did when they were our ages.

My view of tthe situation is that life is tough, and a boy especially is going to need to let out a good bit of the steam that builds in them. as long as the play is not truly violent or dangerous, then there is no need to interfere. This of course is likely a product of my own raising.

With the exception of the marine sniper we were alike - and I agree with your sentiments.

Edit: I should have said in my earlier post that our "pacifism" did not prevent us from playing rough, nor were we anti-gun in any respect aside from the taking of human life.

Jay
04-06-2012, 03:21 PM
I've fired many weapon-like devices at other people starting with the ever present squirt gun in many of its forms, followed by the ORIGINAL lazer tag from the 80's, leading to the ultimate sport, paintball.

Paintball was instrumental in disproving every kids fantasy about standing out in the open pegging bad guys all the while they are shooting at you and not being able to hit. The opponent/enemy IS able to hit you and hit you often!


I never cared much to get hit by a flying fusilade of paint.

forgivenson
04-07-2012, 11:59 AM
I think the intent of the 2nd amendment was to be the 'back-up plan' when the founding fathers realized that the 1st Amendment was being corrupted and manipulated.

Hoovie
04-08-2012, 11:40 PM
NAACP does not question why the police shot 16 yr old that pointed a shotgun at police, but it's the NRA's fault that the kid had a gun...

http://video.foxnews.com/v/1552746528001/missouri-teens-death-calls-for-plea-to-end-gun-violence/?playlist_id=87937

Pilgrum
04-09-2012, 08:40 AM
The problem is not gun violence. The problem is violence.

jfrog
04-11-2012, 07:52 AM
People that are against citizens owning guns needs to read their history of the countries that took away gun rights of the citizens and next all their rights and communism took over.

That is the reason the framers gave citizens the right to bear arms, to keep the government in line.

10000 men with hand guns and deer rifles are just goina end up being 10000 corpses against a modern day army.

jfrog
04-11-2012, 07:58 AM
Guns don't kill people. People kill people.

Some people shouldn't be allowed to own guns, but most Americans are peaceful and responsible.

I don't have a problem with guns but some people become crazy sometime later in life and done own guns and are familiar with how to use them. Those people are scary. Of course they could use other methods to hurt people but i don't imagine any being quite as successful at killing people as a bullet to the head.

Just making the point that its a complex issue and that it isn't a cut and dried issue that gun ownership deters more crime than it allows.

Ferd
04-11-2012, 12:28 PM
Mmm, I don't know; "A republic, if you can hang on to it" seems pretty prescient to me; and i think I could dig up some other quotes that indicate that our own Gov's future tyranny was precisely why guns allowed...

agreed. anyone reading Thomas Jeffersons "watering the tree of Liberty with the blood of patriots and tyrants" quote clearly understand that Jefferson was big on individual and very much afraid of the growth of government power and its natural inclination to limit liberty.