Personal conviction inlight of pastoral authority

[Broseanrichard]

I was wondering what the bible might say about personal convictions and daily devotions inlight of pastoral authority?When we are told in the bible to follow the guidance of the under sherpards(home pastor) how is devotions and convictions applyed to our life inlight of pastoral authority?

[Nitehawk013]

You would first have to show where scripture explicitly tell sone WHAT a Pastor's authority is. That would be a great place to start.

[Austin]

Pastoral positions were respected in the day when the common man could not read the bible. Most people depended on the pastor because he was an educated man when most in the church only had a fifth grade education if that much.

As time pressed on Pastoral positioning became popular by degree of educational status and also by popular attraction to personality.
The preachers who could preach the best entertaining sermons were the most famous to be followed. In other areas the pastor if he had a masters degree in all the social necessities of life then again he was followed by many.

As this process progressed people then became more attracted to the man instead of Jesus. As a result they followed a teaching instead of seeking the truth.

Now let me clarify, I do believe in the pastoral position in the assemblies of God.

During the time of this pastoral movement not all pastors fell into this category of men. Some of the pastors were called out by the Holy Spirit to be ministers unto the people and lead them in the truths of the Lord as well as direct them into the ways that Jesus would have us go.

As time now has moved on and there are so many educated people and also so many people who are segregated in their thoughts and ideas on Christianity and the bible we are now seeing movements and groups different from what the normal way has been for many years.

As a result of this new movement/ which is not anything new/ we are noticing that some people don't respect the position of the pastor in the assembly[ church]. Numerous comments to this have been made here in this forum as well as others on this subject matter, expressing freedom from control and reflection on independence from the guidance of the pastor position.

In the bible it clearly tells us in the book of Corinthians of the appointments of God in the assemblies of God in this earth. Since Jesus is the head of the assemblies and he does not change, then one may assume that the appointments have not changed.

[Nitehawk013]

I don't think anyone would realistically argue that the position of a Pastor isn't "appointed" or biblical. The issue as always is simply WHERE is that position outlined? Where is the job description? Without a clear description of what a Pastor is really supposed to do, you get everything from the wishy washy to the control hungry dictators.

If Chrsitianity and it's scholars could actually DEFINE what a Pastor is and is supposed ot do scripturally then it woul eliminate a lot of these issues. Unfortunately, I fear many don't actually want it to be defined because a definition is also a limitation and some ENJOY being able to do whatever they want and hide behind the title of Pastor.

[Amanah]

We are to follow men as they follow God.
We are to study and pray and find conviction in our own hearts, and be assured in our own hearts of the leading of the Spirit.

[Broseanrichard]

Explain this example. Brother or sister Y gets convicted on _________ but pastor does not see it the same way. Are we to except the pastors guidance or agree to disagree and pray that they see the light too? Also should the church always line up to the pastor or is it possible that the saint could get insite that the pastor is not taking into account leadership that is staying in the word and not following after doctrines of mammon

[RandyWayne]

Explain this example. Brother or sister Y gets convicted on _________ but pastor does not see it the same way. Are we to except the pastors guidance or agree to disagree and pray that they see the light too? Also should the church always line up to the pastor or is it possible that the saint could get insite that the pastor is not taking into account leadership that is staying in the word and not following after doctrines of mammon

Well, is the issue that the saints conviction goes above and beyond what the pastor has set forth in the rule book or the other way around? In the first case, I cannot think of a situation where the pastor didn't tell someone to keep doing what they think is right IF it is stricter then he himself would make it. On the other hand if a saints are NOT convicted in the same way that the pastor says he is, then they (the saints) are usually made to line up.

Now in rare cases they CAN butt heads. As you know there are some pastors who are dead set against wedding rings and push that view point. I on the other hand simply will not take it off since I consider it a representation of our marriage and view marriage as a deeper institution (MUCH deeper) that any sort of relationship between a pastor and saint.

[TGBTG]

Explain this example. Brother or sister Y gets convicted on _________ but pastor does not see it the same way. Are we to except the pastors guidance or agree to disagree and pray that they see the light too? Also should the church always line up to the pastor or is it possible that the saint could get insite that the pastor is not taking into account leadership that is staying in the word and not following after doctrines of mammon

Get a second opinion from another pastor...lol

On a serious note though, pastors do not fall down from heaven. The pastor was not born a pastor. He was and is still a regular brother. The day he is ordained as a pastor does not mean from that day, he is infallible.

I believe a real pastor should be able to agree to disagree with other brethren in love.

1 Peter 5
2 Be shepherds of God's flock that is under your care, serving as overseers— not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not greedy for money, but eager to serve;
3 not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock.

[Broseanrichard]

So I guess we are to follow the stand of the pastor and keep anything above the stand the pastor makes personal and not to force the idea to other. Just explain the stand the church has made and that on a personal level you felt to go higher then expected by the pastor.

[TGBTG]

So I guess we are to follow the stand of the pastor and keep anything above the stand the pastor makes personal and not to force the idea to other.
We should follow the stance of the bible...
The pastor should teach the stance of the bible and not his own personal opinion

Just explain the stand the church has made and that on a personal level you felt to go higher then expected by the pastor.
What do you mean by going higher?

[Broseanrichard]

Example pastor x says short sleeves are ok but saint y feels long sleeves are better or pastor x says you can control tv but saint y feels not to even own one. Just examples here dont need a debate on holiness to start

[TGBTG]

Example pastor x says short sleeves are ok but saint y feels long sleeves are better or pastor x says you can control tv but saint y feels not to even own one. Just examples here dont need a debate on holiness to start

oh i see...definitely, if a person wants to do that, sure...as long as they're not imposing those convictions on others in the church.

[Broseanrichard]

Ok thanks

[AreYouReady?]

oh i see...definitely, if a person wants to do that, sure...as long as they're not imposing those convictions on others in the church.

:thumbsup

[Austin]

The pastoral position has always been a difficult one due to the many secular opinions and ideas that come down the road of life.
My pastor once told me when I spoke to him about the call of God on my life, he said, "If you ever feel the call to pastor a church, then go out and get your own sheep and start one." I asked him why? He said, " that way they won't get a belly ace when you feed them, if you have someones elses they will complain all the time."




This is why so many churches have such strong doctrines within the structure of their church organization. Even though in some cases they many vary a little from those doctrines they still will vocally claim and maintain them if questioned.

A man should follow Jesus, but he should make very sure that he is on the right path and not some personal path.
If a person has been brought up in another church setting and has had some experiences in the Lord that are different and sets out to find others that are similar in belief and experience then that person will have problems as they go to various churches.

The best policies is to be with people who you are basically in agreement with and persons whom you know are real and you enjoy their fellowship. The rest of your inner personal beliefs may be shared, but I would not try to impose them on the entire church body, unless you want to meet with rejection.

The more intelligent you become in the word the more you will meet with adversity.

[The Lemon]

Interesting thread...l remember going to a karate seminar and the teacher was a 9th degree black belt and made a profound yet simple statement. He explained that there will ALWAYS be somebody faster and stronger then you, no matter how hard you train.

What does that have to do with this? Simple, there will always be those both on the pew and perhaps the pulpit who hold either a more strict stance on something (or many things), and conversely there will be those who are more liberal in a given area(s).

The bottom line is walk it out and work it out for you, it is YOUR relationshiop with God and YOUR responsibility. All to often folks want black and white answers for everything and a checklist to be sure they line up...oftentimes, however, this same checklist is used to measure everybody else by, weather it be a fellow saint or leadership.

In my opinion when convictions become a means whereby we judge the spirituality of anybody we then show how immature we are and truly that we are in fact not spiritual at all. If you stay in the Word and communicate with Jesus He will not leave you in the dark concerning your life and purpose in Him - weather it is ministry, church, family, ect.

[Falla39]

:highfiveinteresting thread...l remember going to a karate seminar and the teacher was a 9th degree black belt and made a profound yet simple statement. He explained that there will always be somebody faster and stronger then you, no matter how hard you train.

What does that have to do with this? Simple, there will always be those both on the pew and perhaps the pulpit who hold either a more strict stance on something (or many things), and conversely there will be those who are more liberal in a given area(s).

The bottom line is walk it out and work it out for you, it is your relationshiop with god and your responsibility. All to often folks want black and white answers for everything and a checklist to be sure they line up...oftentimes, however, this same checklist is used to measure everybody else by, weather it be a fellow saint or leadership.

In my opinion when convictions become a means whereby we judge the spirituality of anybody we then show how immature we are and truly that we are in fact not spiritual at all. if you stay in the word and communicate with jesus he will not leave you in the dark concerning your life and purpose in him - weather it is ministry, church, family, ect.

Profound statement!:thumbsup

[Godsdrummer]

Ah the question arises as to what is the authority of the pastor. Along with that is where in scripture are the outline for or description of what a Pastor is. I say this is a very good question, that should raise a red flag in the minds of everyone. If there is not a scritural description of a Pastor then why do we have them? For that matter we only have one place in NT where the word Pastor is used in Ephesians 4 and that word is acctualy from the greek word that means Shephard. And by definition on a shephard of that day they were not figures a authority, rather they had the relationship of a owner of a pet rather than a position of authority. They led the sheep to pastures, and clear water, they bound wounds, they stood between the sheep and the wolf, they went out and found the lost lamb. They did not drive the sheep, they did not set fences around the sheep to keep them in rather they got out in front of the sheep and led them.

Paul teaches us in Ephessians 4 that those given to the body of Christ as gifts were set to equip the rest for their own ministry, to edify the body of Christ, Till we ALL come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Notice it say till we all come, that does not mean that some stay saints and some stay elders or leaders, it says till we ALL become into the place God meant for each and every one of us.