View Full Version : Balance
The Lemon
04-23-2012, 07:11 AM
O.K. - I usually try very hard to write at least semi-intelligentely on this forum, as well as try to be as objective and open as I can be with regards to the diversity here. With that said, I wanted to bounce a scenario and some questions around the forum and would be glad to read the responses.
First, let me say that I have been a part of the UPCI for nearly 20yrs, 14 of which have been in pretty much every ministry in the church. Having said that, I have been part and parcel to the church structure and have seen many noble and good things, but conversely, I have also seen alot of "busyness" as well.
SOOOOO - the question is, in your opinion, what is balance in regards to church, involvement in church, as well as various ministries (be that Sunday School, mowing, cleaning...etc.) The point of view that this question is from is that of balancing with regards to family, work responsibility and etc.
I am asking this for a number of reasons, but I suppose the greatest reason is that in my experience I have seen chock full calendars, programs, fund-raisers and etc. and in the day we live it just seems difficult at best to spread the time out efficientely and effectively - but maybe I am missing something??
I know the goal is relationship with Jesus and of course hearing the words "well done". It just seems that with regards to relationship to Him as well as brothers and sisters in Christ, we are very much performanced based. I hear alot about grace and mercy as well as patience, but I also hear alot about the "work of God" and especially with regards to ones salvation (or lack thereof) based on the activity level in the "church".
What is your take on this...I am interested in reading the responses....
bbyrd009
04-23-2012, 07:18 AM
We call it "balance," a good word, that sometimes can make it easy to forget
that the words "pendulum," and "ebb and flow" are also involved here...
Aquila
04-23-2012, 07:51 AM
O.K. - I usually try very hard to write at least semi-intelligentely on this forum, as well as try to be as objective and open as I can be with regards to the diversity here. With that said, I wanted to bounce a scenario and some questions around the forum and would be glad to read the responses.
First, let me say that I have been a part of the UPCI for nearly 20yrs, 14 of which have been in pretty much every ministry in the church. Having said that, I have been part and parcel to the church structure and have seen many noble and good things, but conversely, I have also seen alot of "busyness" as well.
SOOOOO - the question is, in your opinion, what is balance in regards to church, involvement in church, as well as various ministries (be that Sunday School, mowing, cleaning...etc.) The point of view that this question is from is that of balancing with regards to family, work responsibility and etc.
I am asking this for a number of reasons, but I suppose the greatest reason is that in my experience I have seen chock full calendars, programs, fund-raisers and etc. and in the day we live it just seems difficult at best to spread the time out efficientely and effectively - but maybe I am missing something??
I know the goal is relationship with Jesus and of course hearing the words "well done". It just seems that with regards to relationship to Him as well as brothers and sisters in Christ, we are very much performanced based. I hear alot about grace and mercy as well as patience, but I also hear alot about the "work of God" and especially with regards to ones salvation (or lack thereof) based on the activity level in the "church".
What is your take on this...I am interested in reading the responses....
Lemon,
Excellent question.
The Kingdom of God isn't an organization, a "licensed minister", a church building, church programs, Sunday school, fundraisers, yadda, yadda, yadda.
The Kingdom of God is a oneness with Jesus, being a living disciple of Jesus. Along the path there are spiritual mothers and fathers who serve as mentors. These are "elders". Please review this video. You might see that the "business" you speak of is systemic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvJR_SIiPl4
The Lemon
04-23-2012, 08:19 AM
Just a little more background....after 14yrs under the same Pastor, he left, backslid and left me and one other minister holding the bag so to speak. I had always questioned the hectic church schedule in regards to the calendar and trying to have some sense of normalcy in my home - but obviously, during this particular time, the subject of balance became a greater issue of importance...I know, go figure!
At any rate, we left that assembly, totally burned out and began attending a different UPC church - which honestly we loved since it was much more relaxed and guess what? NO CALENDAR! We were slowly healing from years of burn out and abuse and were so happy to find this refuge. Well, the Pastor of this church retired and someone else took the assembly and now....it is becoming the busy church that we had left 4+ years ago.
Naturally, we are scratching our heads as to how much we are able and willing to do in this assembly. I am not against church, nor am I against an assembly being "organized" per se, but I am very wary of how quickly a few programs and structure can turn into the all consuming time eating monster that we are more then a little familier with.
At any rate, times like these are good times for reflecting on ones own motives and relationships, both in the church and with Jesus. Again, i may be totally missing the "mark" here so that is why I appreciate the feedback. I naturally have my own opinion, but am more then open to the fact that I may be off and wrong in my perception.
Alot of times hurt and burnout can distort ones vision and purpose, so for me, altough I do not like the schedule, the calendar, etc. - I am by no means blasting that out of the water and being critical of the leadership. It may be, however, just the wrong timing for me and my family and we will need to pray about some major decisions up and coming...
BTW...thanks Aquilla!
aegsm76
04-23-2012, 09:10 AM
Balance is hard to find, sometimes.
I really believe that most churches and the people in them, are too busy being in church instead of being salt and light to the world.
I think some pastors believe that they have to keep people busy to keep them saved.
I will confess that I have probably been too busy at every church I have attended.
However, the one thing that I did do right was to make sure that my family was busy with me.
And that we did church things together.
AreYouReady?
04-23-2012, 11:17 AM
At any rate, we left that assembly, totally burned out and began attending a different UPC church - which honestly we loved since it was much more relaxed and guess what? NO CALENDAR! We were slowly healing from years of burn out and abuse and were so happy to find this refuge. Well, the Pastor of this church retired and someone else took the assembly and now....it is becoming the busy church that we had left 4+ years ago.
Sometimes we have to question the motives of the church leaders as to why the pace of the church is what it is.
Some leaders and congregation love to live a busy pace and have to be doing something all the time. That's not always a good thing and that's not always a bad thing.
I like what aegsm said: "I really believe that most churches and the people in them, are too busy being in church instead of being salt and light to the world".
Then again, some churches like to sit at Jesus feet and learn what God wants us to know.
Not everybody who leaves a church family is because they have an issue with that church. Sometimes a person just doesn't fit in with the style of that church and the church should not take it as a personal insult if a family leaves for a setting that they feel more comfortable to be in.
TGBTG
04-23-2012, 11:20 AM
Sometimes we have to question the motives of the church leaders as to why the pace of the church is what it is.
Some leaders and congregation love to live a busy pace and have to be doing something all the time. That's not always a good thing and that's not always a bad thing.
I like what aegsm said: "I really believe that most churches and the people in them, are too busy being in church instead of being salt and light to the world".
Then again, some churches like to sit at Jesus feet and learn what God wants us to know.
Not everybody who leaves a church family is because they have an issue with that church. Sometimes a person just doesn't fit in with the style of that church and the church should not take it as a personal insult if a family leaves for a setting that they feel more comfortable to be in.
:nod
bbyrd009
04-23-2012, 11:55 AM
"Right Pastor."
MissBrattified
04-23-2012, 12:54 PM
O.K. - I usually try very hard to write at least semi-intelligentely on this forum, as well as try to be as objective and open as I can be with regards to the diversity here. With that said, I wanted to bounce a scenario and some questions around the forum and would be glad to read the responses.
First, let me say that I have been a part of the UPCI for nearly 20yrs, 14 of which have been in pretty much every ministry in the church. Having said that, I have been part and parcel to the church structure and have seen many noble and good things, but conversely, I have also seen alot of "busyness" as well.
SOOOOO - the question is, in your opinion, what is balance in regards to church, involvement in church, as well as various ministries (be that Sunday School, mowing, cleaning...etc.) The point of view that this question is from is that of balancing with regards to family, work responsibility and etc. We have to be willing to brutally edit our schedules and commitments when necessary.
I am asking this for a number of reasons, but I suppose the greatest reason is that in my experience I have seen chock full calendars, programs, fund-raisers and etc. and in the day we live it just seems difficult at best to spread the time out efficientely and effectively - but maybe I am missing something??
I know the goal is relationship with Jesus and of course hearing the words "well done". It just seems that with regards to relationship to Him as well as brothers and sisters in Christ, we are very much performanced based. I hear alot about grace and mercy as well as patience, but I also hear alot about the "work of God" and especially with regards to ones salvation (or lack thereof) based on the activity level in the "church".
What is your take on this...I am interested in reading the responses....
Balance varies by the person. Some people are able to take on more because of their personalities, their organizational skills, their time management skills and their energy levels. A good way to evaluate it is to jot down your priorities in order. Usually for me they go something like this:
God (personal relationship)
Personal (my own health and wellbeing)
Family (basic responsibilities + quality time)
Church (basic responsibilities + ministry responsibilities)
Extended Family (staying in contact + occasional visits)
Friends (quality time)
Community (involvement & outreach)
Everything else
It really boils down to how much YOU can handle without neglecting a higher priority. I don't neglect my family in favor of church and I don't neglect church in favor of community involvement. I don't neglect God in favor of family and so on and so forth. Of course, in reality, I DO neglect my responsibilities sometimes, because we do tend to have to struggle for balance. In order to be sane and balanced, we have to re-evaluate every so often and make sure we haven't overloaded ourselves and moved something important out of the way for something less important.
I feel that my personal relationship with God involves attending the church for corporate worship and the Word, and giving my tithes and offering. IMO, that is the extent of the crossover between my personal relationship with God and my obligations to the church. I also believe that my personal relationship with God and being a part of His kingdom requires me to be *reaching out* evangelistically as a Christian. However, the latter doesn't have to be accomplished through a church program. That is accomplished by taking Christmas gifts to neighbors and striking up conversations with strangers at the grocery store. For ME, church obligations or ministries that exceed what I have outlined as my personal obligations to God fall into a category that is less important than God, Personal and Family priorities. I don't accept church responsibilities that I can't fulfill without keeping those first responsibilities going effectively.
My personal rule of thumb is that my commitments are good for one year. At the end of every year, I look at my schedule again and decide whether or not I can recommit to music department, teaching, various outreaches, music camp, etc. These are decisions that I make with my husband's input, and then I inform other people of those decisions. The reason for the 1-year commitment is that it inconveniences other people and departments to lose key people or leaders in the middle of the [fiscal] year. It's a way to be considerate. It's also a way to make sure you are really certain you want to commit to a department for a full year before you say yes.
Bottom Line: It's okay to say no. :) And no one's salvation is dependent on their involvement in church programs, fundraisers, etc. Ever.
Michael Phelps
04-23-2012, 01:28 PM
O.K. - I usually try very hard to write at least semi-intelligentely on this forum, as well as try to be as objective and open as I can be with regards to the diversity here. With that said, I wanted to bounce a scenario and some questions around the forum and would be glad to read the responses.
First, let me say that I have been a part of the UPCI for nearly 20yrs, 14 of which have been in pretty much every ministry in the church. Having said that, I have been part and parcel to the church structure and have seen many noble and good things, but conversely, I have also seen alot of "busyness" as well.
SOOOOO - the question is, in your opinion, what is balance in regards to church, involvement in church, as well as various ministries (be that Sunday School, mowing, cleaning...etc.) The point of view that this question is from is that of balancing with regards to family, work responsibility and etc.
I am asking this for a number of reasons, but I suppose the greatest reason is that in my experience I have seen chock full calendars, programs, fund-raisers and etc. and in the day we live it just seems difficult at best to spread the time out efficientely and effectively - but maybe I am missing something??
I know the goal is relationship with Jesus and of course hearing the words "well done". It just seems that with regards to relationship to Him as well as brothers and sisters in Christ, we are very much performanced based. I hear alot about grace and mercy as well as patience, but I also hear alot about the "work of God" and especially with regards to ones salvation (or lack thereof) based on the activity level in the "church".
What is your take on this...I am interested in reading the responses....
Absolutely excellent question! Thanks for bringing this topic up, unfortunately, this is a tough one to discuss for the simple reason that whenever one begins to talk about "dialing back" church activities, they feel guilty, and the assumption is that one is "backsliding".
I remember as a kid going to church twice on Sunday, Tuesday night for Youth Service, Thursday night for Bible Study, Saturday for door knocking, and during the winter, at least one, quite often two nights a week making peanut brittle. Add church remodeling and maintenance to that, and it was almost a 7 day per week venture. That's not counting revival, which was every night except for Monday.
But, back then, we didn't have TV, couldn't play sports in school, couldn't go to movies, couldn't do anything remotely associated with wordly entertainment, so church was not only our religious center, it was our social center.
Nowadays, in most places, I don't see that working. Many bemoan the loss of "commitment", but life in general is so much busier now than it was back then, and with the outside interests that are broadly accepted now, the whole "church as the center of my world" has changed dramatically, in my opinion.
I'd say that church activities, in and of themselves, that take you away from your family, your job, your rest, anything like that, can be excessive. And for each person, that threshold is different.
Hoovie
04-23-2012, 01:53 PM
Yes I agree. The threshold is different for individuals.
Personally, I don't find religious systems overly enticing in it'self. Therefore, I really can't get too excited about my own "activity level" in the same.
The Lemon
04-24-2012, 06:40 AM
Thank you all for your input...it is most valuable to me! I realize this topic can be sticky, if for no other reason then the fact that we are all individuals and as Miss Bratt and Michael pointed out, each person has a different tolerance level. In light of those comments, let me say that this objective outlook makes total sense, as long as any one individual has the freedom to make such choices concerning commitment(s).
I don't want this to veer off into a negative tangent, but there are times where folks are required to be involved in certain things, and this is especially true in cases where someone holds a ministerial position. So, while there certainly is a freedom to choose, there can be obvious concequences for choosing "no'. IMHO it is wrong for any pastor / leader to limit / restrict / silence the influence of other leaders in the assembly simply because they do not meet the personal requirements of the "Cheif". Now, I am not advocating this in light of doctrine, but simply personal preference, or time allocation...at any rate.
These conversations can tend to be circular since there is much opinion as well as background and as has been said, personality that is involved in decision making processes. I do appreciate the great input and spirit that has been demonstrated in this thread!
bbyrd009
04-24-2012, 07:17 AM
Ordering Your Private World, Gordon MacDonald, will speak to this. A pastor, connected with Man in the Mirror, I've just started it, but right up this alley.
Michael Phelps
04-24-2012, 08:10 AM
Thank you all for your input...it is most valuable to me! I realize this topic can be sticky, if for no other reason then the fact that we are all individuals and as Miss Bratt and Michael pointed out, each person has a different tolerance level. In light of those comments, let me say that this objective outlook makes total sense, as long as any one individual has the freedom to make such choices concerning commitment(s).
I don't want this to veer off into a negative tangent, but there are times where folks are required to be involved in certain things, and this is especially true in cases where someone holds a ministerial position. So, while there certainly is a freedom to choose, there can be obvious concequences for choosing "no'. IMHO it is wrong for any pastor / leader to limit / restrict / silence the influence of other leaders in the assembly simply because they do not meet the personal requirements of the "Cheif". Now, I am not advocating this in light of doctrine, but simply personal preference, or time allocation...at any rate.
These conversations can tend to be circular since there is much opinion as well as background and as has been said, personality that is involved in decision making processes. I do appreciate the great input and spirit that has been demonstrated in this thread!
Great point, Lemon........and, to play Devil's Advocate for a minute, having been a pastor in a past life, there is an expectation that people be faithful to their commitments. You can't build a church/program/outreach strategy/music department/fill in the blank, with people who show up sporadically.
So, I get that there will be some type of consequence if a person in leadership is consistently inconsistent! Part of the expectation of my employer is that I will show up to work every single day, unless I have scheduled vacation time, or if I'm sick - and then my boss expects early communication to let him know my status.
However, having said that, when a person says to the leader UP FRONT, "I'm sorry, I cannot be involved in this activity due to other commitments" the leader needs to honor that honesty and not "black ball" that member. I've seen that happen too many times. Then what happens is that the member will go ahead and accept the position out of guilt, but they will be resentful the entire time.
So, to the original point of the thread, there must be balance. And there must be complete and total honesty on the behalf of both parties up front, and hopefully any guilt issues, misunderstandings, etc. can be headed off at the pass.
The Lemon
04-24-2012, 09:21 AM
Michael,
I get what you are saying in terms of specific ministries requiring faithfullness in order to be effective, no problem there...which is one reason I loved Miss. Bratts post on the yearly commitment and then evaluating afterward.
The issue which to me is the central part of much of the teaching and theology, at least in Apostolic Pentecostal circles is that often times levels of involvement are used in much the same way as dress standards, as a way to measure ones spirituality, relationship with Christ, and in extreme cases, someones very salvation.
The other side issue is that someone may have a musical talent, but scheduling conflicts at home or work etc. prohibit making alot of practices etc. - should that person not be "allowed" to use the talent God gave them because of the perception of the leadership that they can't be "faithful" to enough practices??
We are living is a VERY busy world, and how much restriction should be put on folks before we will let them minister to the Lord and others? I can't tell you how many times I have looked at the "To Do" list in church, with all the ministries trying to be built, sustained, and seucessful and asked two huge questions:
1. What are we REALLY trying to build?
2. Is this ALL that living for God consists of? Program afer program, event after event and so on.
Oftentimes when vision is cast and the frenzy begins as excitement builds, sooner or later it crashes, then we need a revival, and the cycle begins all over again, and for what? Is this really what living and worshipping God is all about?? I can't help but feel like it is like a caged bird who should just be happy that I walk over and feed him and talk to him each day, even though his world consists of restriction and bars that I am trying to convince the bird are for his safety and best interest.
Anyway, let me get off my soapbox...
Michael Phelps
04-24-2012, 09:41 AM
Michael,
I get what you are saying in terms of specific ministries requiring faithfullness in order to be effective, no problem there...which is one reason I loved Miss. Bratts post on the yearly commitment and then evaluating afterward.
The issue which to me is the central part of much of the teaching and theology, at least in Apostolic Pentecostal circles is that often times levels of involvement are used in much the same way as dress standards, as a way to measure ones spirituality, relationship with Christ, and in extreme cases, someones very salvation.
The other side issue is that someone may have a musical talent, but scheduling conflicts at home or work etc. prohibit making alot of practices etc. - should that person not be "allowed" to use the talent God gave them because of the perception of the leadership that they can't be "faithful" to enough practices??
We are living is a VERY busy world, and how much restriction should be put on folks before we will let them minister to the Lord and others? I can't tell you how many times I have looked at the "To Do" list in church, with all the ministries trying to be built, sustained, and seucessful and asked two huge questions:
1. What are we REALLY trying to build?
2. Is this ALL that living for God consists of? Program afer program, event after event and so on.
Oftentimes when vision is cast and the frenzy begins as excitement builds, sooner or later it crashes, then we need a revival, and the cycle begins all over again, and for what? Is this really what living and worshipping God is all about?? I can't help but feel like it is like a caged bird who should just be happy that I walk over and feed him and talk to him each day, even though his world consists of restriction and bars that I am trying to convince the bird are for his safety and best interest.
Anyway, let me get off my soapbox...
Excellent points, and excellent dialogue!
You are preaching to the choir here, my friend, no pun intended, lol!
My earlier post was more centered around the level of commitment once a person agrees to support a particular ministry or cause, but you've gotten even closer to the pin with this question - what are we really trying to build??? Is it of God? Is it in line with the vision of the Bible?
And your description of the "cycle" is dead on! Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.
I do understand what you're saying about the music, as well, and I suppose that since I'm a musician, I may see it slightly differently......I'm a huge advocate of rehearsals, in fact, in the blues band I'm in right now, we rehearse twice a week, for three hours each time. And we play at least twice a month on weekends, sometimes three....so, it's a huge commitment. And what makes it work is the dedication of all the members.
I wouldn't take it to that extreme in a church, but I guess I still feel like there should be some pursuit of excellence, even in a church setting, and oftentimes when people just show up to play music, with no prior rehearsal, there is an unstructured mess that tends to make people nervous, or distracted, instead of aiding and abetting the flow of worship. But, again, that's from a musician's standpoint, I am probably biased!
Either way, I laud you for taking on this tough topic and allowing me to participate!
The Lemon
04-24-2012, 09:54 AM
Michael,
This has been awesome!! And just so you know, I too am a musician - I play drums as well as piano. And I totally understand the need for the pursuance of excellence, and this should always be the goal. Life does happen however, and in those seasons it may not be possible for a variety of reasons to be at the amount of rehersals one should - that said, I don't believe it is my job or anyone else's to take the talent away, bury it in the sand and not allow for some leeway, but instead sit them down until they can be "committed".
At any rate, I think that the ideas that are birthed from zeal and from a love for God and people are great, but can very easily become unrealistic when trying to apply them in all cases and in all scenario's. Afterall, Salvation and God are eternity issues, my career and hobbies are not. I must work in order to eat, my job is not my refuge, nor is it who I am as a human being...it is what I do and what I contribute to survive and provide for my family.
To me, church should be a sanctuary from the pressure and not a steam pressure cooker itself. Most of my practice time musically is done on my own, simply because my current church is almost an hour away from my home. Anyway, I just observe, not
saying any of these discussions are a matter of right or wrong or salvation, just observing what I have not only seen, but experienced over a 20-year span.
I loveto get the input of others in these area's. I get to see it differently then from the pirch I sit on in my "cage".
Michael Phelps
04-24-2012, 10:12 AM
Michael,
This has been awesome!! And just so you know, I too am a musician - I play drums as well as piano. And I totally understand the need for the pursuance of excellence, and this should always be the goal. Life does happen however, and in those seasons it may not be possible for a variety of reasons to be at the amount of rehersals one should - that said, I don't believe it is my job or anyone else's to take the talent away, bury it in the sand and not allow for some leeway, but instead sit them down until they can be "committed".
At any rate, I think that the ideas that are birthed from zeal and from a love for God and people are great, but can very easily become unrealistic when trying to apply them in all cases and in all scenario's. Afterall, Salvation and God are eternity issues, my career and hobbies are not. I must work in order to eat, my job is not my refuge, nor is it who I am as a human being...it is what I do and what I contribute to survive and provide for my family.
To me, church should be a sanctuary from the pressure and not a steam pressure cooker itself. Most of my practice time musically is done on my own, simply because my current church is almost an hour away from my home. Anyway, I just observe, not
saying any of these discussions are a matter of right or wrong or salvation, just observing what I have not only seen, but experienced over a 20-year span.
I loveto get the input of others in these area's. I get to see it differently then from the pirch I sit on in my "cage".
You are right on target, all very valid points.
I spent most of my life in this scenario, and must admit, as a pastor I probably held unrealistic expecations of people. One of the things that many full time pastors forget, present company included, is that while the "church" is their job, it's not everyone else's. So, it's easy for the leader to have a great vision, and expect that everyone else will support it full-time, and put as much time and effort as the pastor does - and in reality, that's just not possible.
It doesn't make it any easier when you go to conferences, and see large churches with multiple full time staff members, and all the awesome things those churches are doing....and come home and try and replicate it in the local assembly.
Bottom line - do what you know in your heart is right, and what you can commit to, and NEVER let it get in the way of your family.
God created the family LONG before He created the church!
Nitehawk013
04-24-2012, 10:16 AM
I am an elder, I run our new converts program, I teach one Sunday morning a onth usually, I sing in the choir once a month and I play softball. I also clean the church once a month. That is really all I desire to be involved in my church to be honest. Some people feel that unless they are involved in everythign and at every single event, then they are backsliden.
Unfortunately, many Pastors reinforce that idea with statements about how a real Christian will be at church whenever the doors are open and that they ought to put the church ahead of everything else in their life.
Im nearly 35. I understand that for those who are not grounded in the faith...they probably do need to be involved in everythign under the sun in order to stay in church. I am mature enough that I don't need to be in everything in order to remain in church. I won't be backsliding if I choose not to do VBS or a choir trip. I won't lose my soul by saying it is more important to spend time with my family than to get involved in yet another program or event.
Balance is great. Th ependulum is a reality too. IMO the priority should always be FAMILY over church though. If I lose my family due to neglect by being too involved in church...then it wasn't worth it.
bbyrd009
04-24-2012, 10:17 AM
The last line is troubling to me (in both of the above posts), but not in this context, I guess.
Just read about the Pastor's "cage," in the book above, hmm.
bbyrd009
04-24-2012, 10:18 AM
Depends upon one's def of "church" here. Mine is not the same as yours for this.
Michael Phelps
04-24-2012, 10:19 AM
The last line is troubling to me (in both of the above posts), but not in this context, I guess.
Just read about the Pastor's "cage," in the book above, hmm.
What is troubling about it, BB?
Aquila
04-24-2012, 10:37 AM
I think we need to ask ourselves an important question. Is all of this “biblical”? We have:
Programs:
New Converts
Sunday School
Children’s Church
Outreach
Softball
Baseball
Music
Choir
… and the list could go on and on
We have these massive buildings requiring massive amounts of money (nearly 80% of all revenues brought into a church). We have massive building funds to expand the buildings.
It’s obviously more of a business than anything else.
In the NT we see believers primarily gathering in homes around elders (spiritual fathers/mentors) and discussing Scripture. These smaller meetings were primarily discussion based wherein all prophesied, or shared a word. Questions were often asked and lives were shared. They didn’t have church buildings. They didn’t have “programs”. They functioned as a spiritual family. They didn’t function like a religious corporation. They shared their lives and their belongings, including money, to see to it that the needs within the family (church) were met. Today we have dozens of men in most churches who are more than qualified to serve as elders. But they sit on a pew and spend time burning out in programs. They are just being kept busy with the illusion that one day the “pastor” will see all their effort and allow them to follow their dreams. However, that’s only an illusion. Because the more necessary and useful they become both in time and finances…the LESS likely their pastor is to release them to follow their call or their dreams. I had a pastor tell me frankly, “I know I have men in this church who feel called to pastor. But what would I do if I released them? They are the most faithful volunteers and givers that we have. It would hurt the church to release them. Now, if God sent families like them to replace them, I’d feel better about releasing them. But until that happens, I can’t endanger the work of God.”
bbyrd009
04-24-2012, 11:56 AM
What is troubling about it, BB?
Ya, mostly that. Church>Family>church
Michael Phelps
04-24-2012, 11:59 AM
Ya, mostly that. Church>Family>church
Confused..........
RandyWayne
04-24-2012, 02:49 PM
Confused..........
Surprised? LOL
bbyrd009
04-24-2012, 05:02 PM
. = "is greater than?"
and the Church takes precedence over family;
but the church doesn't, necessarily.
Michael Phelps
04-24-2012, 05:24 PM
. = "is greater than?"
and the Church takes precedence over family;
but the church doesn't, necessarily.
Ah, ok, missed the capitalization.
rgcraig
04-24-2012, 05:26 PM
Balance varies by the person. Some people are able to take on more because of their personalities, their organizational skills, their time management skills and their energy levels. A good way to evaluate it is to jot down your priorities in order. Usually for me they go something like this:
God (personal relationship)
Personal (my own health and wellbeing)
Family (basic responsibilities + quality time)
Church (basic responsibilities + ministry responsibilities)
Extended Family (staying in contact + occasional visits)
Friends (quality time)
Community (involvement & outreach)
Everything else
It really boils down to how much YOU can handle without neglecting a higher priority. I don't neglect my family in favor of church and I don't neglect church in favor of community involvement. I don't neglect God in favor of family and so on and so forth. Of course, in reality, I DO neglect my responsibilities sometimes, because we do tend to have to struggle for balance. In order to be sane and balanced, we have to re-evaluate every so often and make sure we haven't overloaded ourselves and moved something important out of the way for something less important.
I feel that my personal relationship with God involves attending the church for corporate worship and the Word, and giving my tithes and offering. IMO, that is the extent of the crossover between my personal relationship with God and my obligations to the church. I also believe that my personal relationship with God and being a part of His kingdom requires me to be *reaching out* evangelistically as a Christian. However, the latter doesn't have to be accomplished through a church program. That is accomplished by taking Christmas gifts to neighbors and striking up conversations with strangers at the grocery store. For ME, church obligations or ministries that exceed what I have outlined as my personal obligations to God fall into a category that is less important than God, Personal and Family priorities. I don't accept church responsibilities that I can't fulfill without keeping those first responsibilities going effectively.
My personal rule of thumb is that my commitments are good for one year. At the end of every year, I look at my schedule again and decide whether or not I can recommit to music department, teaching, various outreaches, music camp, etc. These are decisions that I make with my husband's input, and then I inform other people of those decisions. The reason for the 1-year commitment is that it inconveniences other people and departments to lose key people or leaders in the middle of the [fiscal] year. It's a way to be considerate. It's also a way to make sure you are really certain you want to commit to a department for a full year before you say yes.
Bottom Line: It's okay to say no. :) And no one's salvation is dependent on their involvement in church programs, fundraisers, etc. Ever.
Short answer and I agree!!!
Timmy
04-24-2012, 05:27 PM
Careful. You don't want to have too much balance. :lol
bbyrd009
04-24-2012, 07:38 PM
Ha I agree.
Balance varies by the person. Some people are able to take on more because of their personalities, their organizational skills, their time management skills and their energy levels. A good way to evaluate it is to jot down your priorities in order. Usually for me they go something like this:
God (personal relationship)
Personal (my own health and wellbeing)
Family (basic responsibilities + quality time)
Church (basic responsibilities + ministry responsibilities)
Extended Family (staying in contact + occasional visits)
Friends (quality time)
Community (involvement & outreach)
Everything else
It really boils down to how much YOU can handle without neglecting a higher priority. I don't neglect my family in favor of church and I don't neglect church in favor of community involvement. I don't neglect God in favor of family and so on and so forth. Of course, in reality, I DO neglect my responsibilities sometimes, because we do tend to have to struggle for balance. In order to be sane and balanced, we have to re-evaluate every so often and make sure we haven't overloaded ourselves and moved something important out of the way for something less important.
I feel that my personal relationship with God involves attending the church for corporate worship and the Word, and giving my tithes and offering. IMO, that is the extent of the crossover between my personal relationship with God and my obligations to the church. I also believe that my personal relationship with God and being a part of His kingdom requires me to be *reaching out* evangelistically as a Christian. However, the latter doesn't have to be accomplished through a church program. That is accomplished by taking Christmas gifts to neighbors and striking up conversations with strangers at the grocery store. For ME, church obligations or ministries that exceed what I have outlined as my personal obligations to God fall into a category that is less important than God, Personal and Family priorities. I don't accept church responsibilities that I can't fulfill without keeping those first responsibilities going effectively.
My personal rule of thumb is that my commitments are good for one year. At the end of every year, I look at my schedule again and decide whether or not I can recommit to music department, teaching, various outreaches, music camp, etc. These are decisions that I make with my husband's input, and then I inform other people of those decisions. The reason for the 1-year commitment is that it inconveniences other people and departments to lose key people or leaders in the middle of the [fiscal] year. It's a way to be considerate. It's also a way to make sure you are really certain you want to commit to a department for a full year before you say yes.
Bottom Line: It's okay to say no. :) And no one's salvation is dependent on their involvement in church programs, fundraisers, etc. Ever.
Excellent post from the Brat here. Ditto me on this. Good advice. In fact this should be a mandatory lesson for all church members!
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