View Full Version : Threats to Kill, Legal?
Hoovie
04-23-2012, 09:25 AM
This was prompted by the new public threats on Zimmerman's life. It appears to have broadened beyond just an official bounty from the New Black Panthers.
I don't want to limit the thread or question to Zimmerman - hence a new thread. I suppose I was under the impression that death threats were not protected speech and were actually a crime.
Right or wrong?
I know in domestic violence cases there is often a lot of hearsay to obtain restraining orders etc. But where a threat is published fact - I did not think that was even legal...
http://twitchy.com/2012/04/23/twitter-lynch-mob-now-that-george-zimmerman-is-out-on-bail-lets-kill-him/
Timmy
04-23-2012, 09:38 AM
My thoughts exactly. The facts of the case are fuzzy, and in dispute, and Zimmerman may (or may not) be a racist jerk, may even be guilty of murder, but it's not right to incite people to kill him on the streets.
Cindy
04-23-2012, 09:53 AM
Wow
James Griffin
04-23-2012, 10:32 AM
Moral? Of course not. Legal? It depends.
Hoovie
04-23-2012, 10:42 AM
Moral? Of course not. Legal? It depends.
LOL!
Well, I did not mean to ask whether it was moral with my "right or wrong".
Does it depend on who you are, what state you are in when make the threat or what?
Hoovie
04-23-2012, 10:59 AM
Now the calls for murder are extended to judge. Surely this can't be legal!
But it's not just Zimmerman who is at risk. In fact, there's already been a call on Twitter for the murder of the judge, Circuit Judge Kenneth Lester, who agreed to release Zimmerman on bail.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/someone-kill-judge_640598.html
tstew
04-23-2012, 11:06 AM
Good question. I wish Griffin would give more legal info here (since Baron has forsaken us). I would imagine that there might have to be a little more demonstrable intent than a tweet or post. Unfortunately, I read stuff like this quite a bit. I think this is potentially dangerous, though, in that so much is directed at one man.
Hoovie
04-23-2012, 11:12 AM
If someone causally or even affectionately exclaims "I'll kill you for that!" I understand it's not likely illegal.
But if it includes intent to perform or even incite I would think that they should be investigated.
I know if I were Zim or the Judge, I would take it very seriously about now.
tstew
04-23-2012, 11:16 AM
If someone causally or even affectionately exclaims "I'll kill you for that!" I understand it's not likely illegal.
But if it includes intent to perform or even incite I would think that they would be investigated.
I think that is where it gets murky pretty quickly. I know they can't argue affection here, but I'm not sure that everybody who says what they would do if they saw someone is going to get charged for it.
Hoovie
04-23-2012, 11:22 AM
I think that is where it gets murky pretty quickly. I know they can't argue affection here, but I'm not sure that everybody who says what they would do if they saw someone is going to get charged for it.
Maybe it depends on who the threat is made against? If made against the president on twitter, I would expect the FBI at my door within 24 hrs... :nod
AreYouReady?
04-23-2012, 11:23 AM
The law of the land is that everybody is entitled to his day in court, to face their accuser, and to be tried by a jury of their peers.
Seems to me that this could be considered to be a modern day call for lynching.
Cindy
04-23-2012, 11:45 AM
It is probably illegal against the Judge, not sure about Zimmerman. I am sure a lot of judges get these kinds of threats.
bbyrd009
04-23-2012, 11:52 AM
Interesting to see the diff in this and the Norwegian response.
James Griffin
04-23-2012, 12:23 PM
Sorry. Will have time to post tonight.
berkeley
04-23-2012, 12:26 PM
Sorry. Will have time to post tonight.
:missing
James Griffin
04-23-2012, 08:16 PM
There are exceptions to the general rules- such as making an improbable threat against the president would probably earn you an extended stay at hotel Gitmo. Kinda same principle as don't make jokes about bombs at the airport...
But generally speaking- Inciting to riot is pretty much impossible to charge unless in the wake of a riot...
Also generally speaking the most difficult element to prove in an assault like terroristic threat ( as it's called in Texas) is immediacy. For example someone SHOULD kill him does not qualify and would be protected first amendment speech...
If there is violence and it can be directly attributed to a quote (very unlikely) it might be possible for a tort action.
To be criminal it would pretty much need to be a direct immediate reasonably believable threat. Or offer to pay bounty to injure or kill. Etc...
In other words very high and difficult standard for public speech to reach criminal level...
Hoovie
04-23-2012, 09:20 PM
So, at face value, the Zimmerman threats on twitter and the New Black Panther signs are legal?
James Griffin
04-23-2012, 09:59 PM
See that's the problem you can't look at them at face value, it's a balancing test.
The only silver lining of the Obama justice department ignoring he death threats of the New Black Panther Party towards Zimmerman is it is one more demonstration of how racist the Obama administration is and hopefully people will take note before voting in November.
There is a clear pattern or ignoring Black on white crime and Black extremist crimes like this one and the 2008 New Black Panther voter intimidation that the Obama / Holder justice department did not prosecute.
the KKK and New Black Panther party are both morons and both should be prosecuted for death threats and attempts to incite violence when it happens. Apparently the Obama admin thinks things like this are only a crime when white idiots do it.
It is sickening how Black on White crime is ignored in situations like this. This is a perversion of our justice system. The whole weight of the justice system should have been brought to bear on the NBPP and erased it and its atrocities from the record. If the Feds will not act, then the states should respond to eliminate the threat, just as they did the KKK.
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