Gay Children

[Dedicated Mind]

How should we as christians treat effeminate boys or "butch" girls? Does anyone agree with this pastor?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTiBv99MYDk

[Jay]

I believe that he is using exageration to make a point. Parents should be teaching their children proper means and methods of behavior. While I would not necessarily agree with every remedy, I do believe that his basic point is effective. One of the keys though is to not overreact so that the incident is engraved on the childs mind. Thus tlc must also be used when dealing with this issue. However, I do not believe that he went far enough, which should have been a warning for parents to pay close attention to their children's influences. Hollywood, romance novels, ungodly music, and other such things must be eliminated. While none of these will guarantee success, it would go a long way to raising children in the fear and honor of the Lord.

[AreYouReady?]

I cannot view this you tube because of my living in an unfortunate area that no company will bring fast access internet to us.

I can see that he is telling the congregation to beat the gay away?

What's he scared of?

[AreYouReady?]

Better yet...can somebody give me a synopsis of what the u tube is all about?

[Hoovie]

Yep I am pretty much in agreement with the preacher, understanding He was indeed exaggerating a bit.

[Jay]

The description is deceptive. It is a short clip telling fathers to teach their children to walk, talk, and act like the gender God made them. He uses some exagerated statements that could be taken to extremes, but should be kept in balance with the rest of Scripture concerning the raising of children. There is actually nothing here to get excited about.

[AreYouReady?]

So...the preacher is not telling children to "beat" on gay children?

[bbyrd009]

No, but what he is saying will nonetheless be as ineffective as telling a frog not to hop; I have met 4 year old gays. And speaking of frogs, there is that little thing about androgynous frogs caused by, what was it, something in the water from humans...forgot. He should go preach this to frogs, to equal effect, sorry.

This may twist a couple kids, naturally gay now--deal with it you made it--into some semblance of straightness, but it will just leak out other, more nefarious ways. These are not the gays in Sodom, forcing themselves on the unwilling. I pray he succeeds wildly, cause I have no better idea. They are God's children too, and thankfully He understands this better than us; but His idea is "don't make gay people."

[Jay]

So...the preacher is not telling children to "beat" on gay children?


No. It is simply people choosing to be reactionary. This will become more common. I do believe that preachers should be sometimes be a little more judicious. The Bible did say not to let our good be evil spoken of. He could have made his point in a less incendiary manner. However, in the end I do not criticize as that is unproductive.

[bbyrd009]

^edit^

[AreYouReady?]

I'll have to take my laptop somewhere to view this.

I realize the media has no shame when it comes to descriptions of religious sermons.

[deacon blues]

The best thing a father can do to with an effeminate son is SPEND TIME with him. Teach him what a man does. Affirm him as his son. Love on him, hug him, be affectionate with his son so that one day he won't long to be in the arms of a man because his daddy showed him love when he yearned for it. Hunt, fish, play ball, wrestle, play video games, work, cut grass, garden, trim bushes and trees, go to ballgames together, talk about women, heterosexuality, puberty, nocturnal emissions, the dangers of porn, Biblical morality, etc. Masculinity is taught and caught---BE A DAD and your son won't struggle with effeminacy or homosexuality.

[bbyrd009]

The best thing a father can do to with an effeminate son is SPEND TIME with him. Teach him what a man does. Affirm him as his son. Love on him, hug him, be affectionate with his son so that one day he won't long to be in the arms of a man because his daddy showed him love when he yearned for it. Hunt, fish, play ball, wrestle, play video games, work, cut grass, garden, trim bushes and trees, go to ballgames together, talk about women, heterosexuality, puberty, nocturnal emissions, the dangers of porn, Biblical morality, etc. Masculinity is taught and caught---BE A DAD and your son won't struggle with effeminacy or homosexuality.

I have to believe this would work; a healing, basically. The 4 year old male homosexual in my experience, a family friend growing up, did not get this. Mom wore the pants, btw.

[Bro. Robbins]

FYI... this particular clip has been edited in a couple of places... this was being discussed this morning on the morning news here in Nashville. Even the "beat the gay away" part is an editorial note from the person who was posting the clip. So, the clip has had a few places edited out.

Pastor Harris posted a response that should also be read, since we don't know the full intent of what he was saying, and he was in the middle of being wound up and used some words that might paint different "mind pictures" than what we would have used.

http://www.fayobserver.com/articles/2012/05/02/1174936?sac=fo.home

[Aquila]

The best thing a father can do to with an effeminate son is SPEND TIME with him. Teach him what a man does. Affirm him as his son. Love on him, hug him, be affectionate with his son so that one day he won't long to be in the arms of a man because his daddy showed him love when he yearned for it. Hunt, fish, play ball, wrestle, play video games, work, cut grass, garden, trim bushes and trees, go to ballgames together, talk about women, heterosexuality, puberty, nocturnal emissions, the dangers of porn, Biblical morality, etc. Masculinity is taught and caught---BE A DAD and your son won't struggle with effeminacy or homosexuality.

I know two excellent apostolic fathers (one a preacher) whose sons still expressed being gay. When one son came out the dad disowned him and kicked him out of the house. The kid moved in with his "boyfriend" and another room-mate.

It's really sad. This kid had such a good relationship with his dad he thought he could come out and still be loved. Nope. Sad.

[bbyrd009]

My four year old friend has the same story; I really liked his dad, too, called him "uncle," but I took the kid's side, in my usual tactless way...and that was pretty much the end of that.

[deacon blues]

I have to believe this would work; a healing, basically. The 4 year old male homosexual in my experience, a family friend growing up, did not get this. Mom wore the pants, btw.

I have a great passion for helping homosexuals. I feel the church, at least the ones I have been connected with, treated the issue with very little to no love. In 25 years of ministry I have had the opportunity to minister to 40 or so homosexuals, mostly males, to one degree or another. I don't sidestep the clear commands of Scripture concerning the sin, but I do have compassion and I believe Jesus can deliver the homosexual of the deep seated lies that consume the mind of the person struggling with same sex attractions.

In every case that I have dealt with, all 40 individuals did not have a normal, healthy relationship with their fathers. Either the father was physically absent from their lives, he was emotionally distant or he was physically or sexually abusive. I talked once about 20 years ago with Dr. Joseph Nicolosi in between sessions at a seminar and he confirmed my suspicions about the origins of homosexuality. He said in his practice that exclusively focused on the "reparative therapy" of male homosexuality that he never dealt with a single client that had a right relationship with their father. Its not the only contributor, but it's a huge factor.

Some homosexuals are adamant they have no desire to change. I have counseled with those and there is nothing you can do but release them to God and pray. Others I have counseled with could admit they struggled with same sex attractions but did not embrace a gay identity. Nicolosi calls these types of individuals as "non-gay homosexuals." One young man came to me years ago, a teenager, who admitted he had struggled with homosexual thoughts, that he had observed gay porn and he had a couple of homosexual encounters, one with another young man and one with a stranger in a park. He was mortified by his struggle. He was effeminate and had a dad who was clueless about emotional attachment and affection with his kids. He also had a strong mother who was definitely a matriarch type, more so out of necessity than desire, because of the apathy of the dad. This is also a reoccurring theme in a homosexual's homelife: a dominant mother, in many cases a smothering, overprotective, controlling figure that helps to encourage identifying with all things feminine rather than encouraging masculinity.

This young man communicated that he didn't want to be gay. He wanted to grow up, marry have kids and lead a normal life. We met for many weeks after school, praying, talking, doing Bible studies and being friends. That was 15 years ago and today he is happily married with children. When I see him I ask about how's doing and he knows what I mean and he'll communicate how he's doing in relationship to the temptations. I believe for him it will a lifetime challenge to overcome that sin, just like all of us who must deal with certain weaknesses that are against God's intended plan for our lives. The victory is that he came to me before he was too far into the lie and was able to focus on his desire to live for Jesus more than anything. He is living according to the truth and God continues to empower him to live victoriously.

As a side note, he called me one day to tell me he was getting engaged. He asked me if I thought he should share with her his past. I told him I thought was only fair tom tell her now than for her to learn about after marriage. He told her, she forgave him and said she loved him even more for his honesty. He is the best case of dealing with homosexuality that I personally know of, although there are thousands of "ex-gays" who are living proof that homosexuality can be overcome like any other sin.

[deacon blues]

Dr. Joseph Nicolosi is the head of NARTH the leading authority on helping homosexuals out of the gay lifestyle. They are some of the few psychiatrists and psychologists who treat homosexuality as a mental disorder, what they call a "gender deficit disorder". They have some wonderful resources that can be found at www.narth.org

[bbyrd009]

Dr. Joseph Nicolosi is the head of NARTH the leading authority on helping homosexuals out of the gay lifestyle. They are some of the few psychiatrists and psychologists who treat homosexuality as a mental disorder, what they call a "gender deficit disorder". They have some wonderful resources that can be found at www.narth.org

Well, the testimony above is awesome, don't hear too many of those.
Of course all one hears about Narth is the horror stories.

[MissBrattified]

The best thing a father can do to with an effeminate son is SPEND TIME with him. Teach him what a man does. Affirm him as his son. Love on him, hug him, be affectionate with his son so that one day he won't long to be in the arms of a man because his daddy showed him love when he yearned for it. Hunt, fish, play ball, wrestle, play video games, work, cut grass, garden, trim bushes and trees, go to ballgames together, talk about women, heterosexuality, puberty, nocturnal emissions, the dangers of porn, Biblical morality, etc. Masculinity is taught and caught---BE A DAD and your son won't struggle with effeminacy or homosexuality.

I completely agree! I also think that obsessing over occasional "crossover" is not only ridiculous, but potentially harmful. I wouldn't punish my kids for behaving "butch"(aka, tomboys) or "feminine"(aka, the sensitive boy). Punishment is the wrong, wrong, WRONG approach and that's what scares me a little about the sermon--that someone might take it the wrong way and think they need to punish their kids for not being typically masculine or feminine.

My oldest daughter has loved horses her whole life, went through a phase when she refused to wear pink anything, and has always loved to fish, dig up worms and be in nature. Yes, along the way I had to encourage her to embrace her femininity along with her tomboy side, but I didn't berate her for liking "boy" things or make it a big deal that she'd rather fish than shop. Now, here she is at 16.5 and she's feminine and beautiful, embraces pink (finally!!!) and still loves her cowboy boots. The idea that I would have steered her away from her natural affinity for nature, horses and *dirt* for fear that she would be gay is appalling to me.

IMO, a father overreacting to his son liking something traditionally feminine would be a traumatic event. What if a boy loves to cook and learns to make pastry and cakes? So what? Maybe he will grow up to be a chef? How about if he DOESN'T like to hunt or kill animals? My husband HATES to hunt and when he went with my brother-in-law, he would scare the animals (rabbits, deer, whatever) away and then my BIL would angrily chase him through the woods. :D That doesn't make him less of a man! I love that he has stepped in and told our kids that we are to respect God's creation and that my son isn't allowed to squash frogs or torture animals just for the pleasure of it--something a lot of parents see as "typically male behavior."

Your post is fantastic. I recall reading something a LONG time ago that brought out statistics about the number of men who were gay relative to the number who had either bad relationships with their father--or no relationship at all. Interesting concept.

I wish parents would look at their kids through naked eyes, without the lens of our culture, and see them as coming into this world with God-given gifts--evidenced in their own unique personalities. Our job isn't to limit those gifts, but to discover their gifts and help them develop them.

[Timmy]

Exaggeration? He says, "Can I make it any clearer? Dads, the second you see your son dropping the limp wrist, you walk over there and crack that wrist. Man up. Give him a good punch."

[Hoovie]

Exaggeration? He says, "Can I make it any clearer? Dads, the second you see your son dropping the limp wrist, you walk over there and crack that wrist. Man up. Give him a good punch."

Exactly. I simply don't believe he was endorsing breaking wrists and knocking your kid out.

I don't believe we should tolerate or encourage homosexual behavior in children anymore than we tolerate acting out other sinful behavior.

Having said that, I agree with the Deac as well, - the relationship and positive interaction of the father being key.

[deacon blues]

I completely agree! I also think that obsessing over occasional "crossover" is not only ridiculous, but potentially harmful. I wouldn't punish my kids for behaving "butch"(aka, tomboys) or "feminine"(aka, the sensitive boy). Punishment is the wrong, wrong, WRONG approach and that's what scares me a little about the sermon--that someone might take it the wrong way and think they need to punish their kids for not being typically masculine or feminine.

My oldest daughter has loved horses her whole life, went through a phase when she refused to wear pink anything, and has always loved to fish, dig up worms and be in nature. Yes, along the way I had to encourage her to embrace her femininity along with her tomboy side, but I didn't berate her for liking "boy" things or make it a big deal that she'd rather fish than shop. Now, here she is at 16.5 and she's feminine and beautiful, embraces pink (finally!!!) and still loves her cowboy boots. The idea that I would have steered her away from her natural affinity for nature, horses and *dirt* for fear that she would be gay is appalling to me.

IMO, a father overreacting to his son liking something traditionally feminine would be a traumatic event. What if a boy loves to cook and learns to make pastry and cakes? So what? Maybe he will grow up to be a chef? How about if he DOESN'T like to hunt or kill animals? My husband HATES to hunt and when he went with my brother-in-law, he would scare the animals (rabbits, deer, whatever) away and then my BIL would angrily chase him through the woods. :D That doesn't make him less of a man! I love that he has stepped in and told our kids that we are to respect God's creation and that my son isn't allowed to squash frogs or torture animals just for the pleasure of it--something a lot of parents see as "typically male behavior."

Your post is fantastic. I recall reading something a LONG time ago that brought out statistics about the number of men who were gay relative to the number who had either bad relationships with their father--or no relationship at all. Interesting concept.

I wish parents would look at their kids through naked eyes, without the lens of our culture, and see them as coming into this world with God-given gifts--evidenced in their own unique personalities. Our job isn't to limit those gifts, but to discover their gifts and help them develop them.

Our sexuality is heterosexual by nature, our understanding about our sexuality is defined by our nurturing. If I am loved, given time and attention, made to feel special and affirmed and accepted and celebrated, if my self image is secure and stable, then who I am is defined by the love and nurturing I grew up with. I understand intimacy is relationship, not sexuality. Sexuality is understood as a gift from God to be shared with my spouse in the bonds of the intimacy that occurs in the marriage relationship. If I have a deficit in my mind about who I am and what I am, if I go through childhood without important intimate connections with father and/or mother, if there are yearnings for acceptance first from the most important people in my life and there is rejection and hurt and maybe abuse, and then secondly I experience rejection from my peers as I grow older, then when I am changing from head to toe, and my sexuality kicks in, it's possible I will vulnerable to believe that sexual intercourse with someone will make me "whole" and will secure the acceptance and love and intimacy I'm longing for. It may manifest itself in homosexuality, it may manifest itself in promiscuous heterosexuality. Statistics show that kids that have heterosexual sex before marriage also have similar issues at home where there is a missing component most typically with their fathers, but sometimes the mother also.

[bbyrd009]

Exaggeration? He says, "Can I make it any clearer? Dads, the second you see your son dropping the limp wrist, you walk over there and crack that wrist. Man up. Give him a good punch."

Seriously? Oh, well then we're talking about counseling the wrong party, lol.
He'll straighten up--around you, and double it up everywhere else, hello.
Seriously? (Can't watch anything now).

[bbyrd009]

Our sexuality is heterosexual by nature, our understanding about our sexuality is defined by our nurturing. If I am loved, given time and attention, made to feel special and affirmed and accepted and celebrated, if my self image is secure and stable, then who I am is defined by the love and nurturing I grew up with. I understand intimacy is relationship, not sexuality. Sexuality is understood as a gift from God to be shared with my spouse in the bonds of the intimacy that occurs in the marriage relationship. If I have a deficit in my mind about who I am and what I am, if I go through childhood without important intimate connections with father and/or mother, if there are yearnings for acceptance first from the most important people in my life and there is rejection and hurt and maybe abuse, and then secondly I experience rejection from my peers as I grow older, then when I am changing from head to toe, and my sexuality kicks in, it's possible I will vulnerable to believe that sexual intercourse with someone will make me "whole" and will secure the acceptance and love and intimacy I'm longing for. It may manifest itself in homosexuality, it may manifest itself in promiscuous heterosexuality. Statistics show that kids that have heterosexual sex before marriage also have similar issues at home where there is a missing component most typically with their fathers, but sometimes the mother also.

yup.

[Jay]

I completely agree! I also think that obsessing over occasional "crossover" is not only ridiculous, but potentially harmful. I wouldn't punish my kids for behaving "butch"(aka, tomboys) or "feminine"(aka, the sensitive boy). Punishment is the wrong, wrong, WRONG approach and that's what scares me a little about the sermon--that someone might take it the wrong way and think they need to punish their kids for not being typically masculine or feminine.

My oldest daughter has loved horses her whole life, went through a phase when she refused to wear pink anything, and has always loved to fish, dig up worms and be in nature. Yes, along the way I had to encourage her to embrace her femininity along with her tomboy side, but I didn't berate her for liking "boy" things or make it a big deal that she'd rather fish than shop. Now, here she is at 16.5 and she's feminine and beautiful, embraces pink (finally!!!) and still loves her cowboy boots. The idea that I would have steered her away from her natural affinity for nature, horses and *dirt* for fear that she would be gay is appalling to me.

IMO, a father overreacting to his son liking something traditionally feminine would be a traumatic event. What if a boy loves to cook and learns to make pastry and cakes? So what? Maybe he will grow up to be a chef? How about if he DOESN'T like to hunt or kill animals? My husband HATES to hunt and when he went with my brother-in-law, he would scare the animals (rabbits, deer, whatever) away and then my BIL would angrily chase him through the woods. :D That doesn't make him less of a man! I love that he has stepped in and told our kids that we are to respect God's creation and that my son isn't allowed to squash frogs or torture animals just for the pleasure of it--something a lot of parents see as "typically male behavior."

Your post is fantastic. I recall reading something a LONG time ago that brought out statistics about the number of men who were gay relative to the number who had either bad relationships with their father--or no relationship at all. Interesting concept.

I wish parents would look at their kids through naked eyes, without the lens of our culture, and see them as coming into this world with God-given gifts--evidenced in their own unique personalities. Our job isn't to limit those gifts, but to discover their gifts and help them develop them.


I have to agree with much of the above statements. My youngest brother and I are not hunters, although he will fish, and are more introverted. Both of us might be labeled as 'emotional', although I think it fits him more than myself.

I am given to reading, study, and thinking. I do not do things well with my hands, and my father and I only share a few strong similarities namely tastes in food, music, standards, and the preaching of the Word.

However, even with the differences, my Dad never made us feel like we were any less for being different than what the popular concept of 'masculinity' is. So we went camping, traveling, and doing things as a family, and always enjoyed our time together.


Our sexuality is heterosexual by nature, our understanding about our sexuality is defined by our nurturing. If I am loved, given time and attention, made to feel special and affirmed and accepted and celebrated, if my self image is secure and stable, then who I am is defined by the love and nurturing I grew up with. I understand intimacy is relationship, not sexuality. Sexuality is understood as a gift from God to be shared with my spouse in the bonds of the intimacy that occurs in the marriage relationship. If I have a deficit in my mind about who I am and what I am, if I go through childhood without important intimate connections with father and/or mother, if there are yearnings for acceptance first from the most important people in my life and there is rejection and hurt and maybe abuse, and then secondly I experience rejection from my peers as I grow older, then when I am changing from head to toe, and my sexuality kicks in, it's possible I will vulnerable to believe that sexual intercourse with someone will make me "whole" and will secure the acceptance and love and intimacy I'm longing for. It may manifest itself in homosexuality, it may manifest itself in promiscuous heterosexuality. Statistics show that kids that have heterosexual sex before marriage also have similar issues at home where there is a missing component most typically with their fathers, but sometimes the mother also.


This is all true, however there are also those cases when a boy or youth is molested by a man and then has to deal with the thoughts and desires that have been brought on by the sexual activity. Also, with our schools actively promoting the gay lifestyle and encouraging students to participate in such things, it will occur that we will have to deal with those who have chosen to be gay as a willful lifestyle.

[Timmy]

Seriously? Oh, well then we're talking about counseling the wrong party, lol.
He'll straighten up--around you, and double it up everywhere else, hello.
Seriously? (Can't watch anything now).

Verbatim. He "apologized", by the way. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/03/pastor-sean-harris-beat-gay-children-sermon_n_1474510.html?&ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009

[scotty]

Verbatim. He "apologized", by the way. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/03/pastor-sean-harris-beat-gay-children-sermon_n_1474510.html?&ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009


On his blog ?

[Timmy]

On his blog ?

:lol

[Dedicated Mind]

deacon, your spiritual contributions are much more insightful and beneficial than your politics. kudos.

[AreYouReady?]

IMO, a father overreacting to his son liking something traditionally feminine would be a traumatic event. What if a boy loves to cook and learns to make pastry and cakes? So what? Maybe he will grow up to be a chef? How about if he DOESN'T like to hunt or kill animals? My husband HATES to hunt and when he went with my brother-in-law, he would scare the animals (rabbits, deer, whatever) away and then my BIL would angrily chase him through the woods. :D That doesn't make him less of a man! I love that he has stepped in and told our kids that we are to respect God's creation and that my son isn't allowed to squash frogs or torture animals just for the pleasure of it--something a lot of parents see as "typically male behavior."

Most men can really cook! Whether it is BBQing outside or baking. I never considered that to be a sole task assigned to women.

Gives us a break sometimes.

[aegsm76]

deacon, your spiritual contributions are much more insightful and beneficial than your politics. kudos.

DM, DM, you've got it backwards again...
His political contributions are much more insightful and beneficial than his spiritual ones.

The above was somewhat TIC...

[bbyrd009]

Verbatim. He "apologized", by the way. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/03/pastor-sean-harris-beat-gay-children-sermon_n_1474510.html?&ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009

Can you really just apologize for something like that?
And yes, I know pretty much all those verses, too.

[Timmy]

Can you really just apologize for something like that?
And yes, I know pretty much all those verses, too.

I see it as a cop-out, backpedaling non-apology. But that's just IMO. ;)

[Cindy]

Maybe HE needs a smack upside his head!! :smack

[scotty]

Maybe HE needs a smack upside his head!! :smack

You think he's gay?

[Cindy]

You think he's gay?

I don't know, I am just in a good mood today. :D

[scotty]

I don't know, I am just in a good mood today. :D

:yourock

[Jay]

Is who gay?

[scotty]

Is who gay?

Let me walk you through this.

pastor says to smack gay kids

Timmy says pastor is didnt apologize.

Cindy said he needs a smack.

I ask why, did she think he was gay


Caught up ?

[Jay]

I see. I was a little lost there for a second. Hazards of a guy attempting to do multiple things at once.

[Cindy]

Let me walk you through this.

pastor says to smack gay kids

Timmy says pastor is didnt apologize.

Cindy said he needs a smack.

I ask why, did she think he was gay


Caught up ?

He's never been on our bus. :heeheehee

[Jay]

He's never been on our bus. :heeheehee



Was that an inside joke?

[scotty]

Was that an inside joke?

You seem to have pretty dry humor so it may not appeal to you, but here is the link anyway.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=13865&highlight=nutty

[Jay]

Now why was I never informed that there was a bus, and that I could get on it? You were holding out on me! Now I am hurt and am going to go play with my pet rattlesnake.

[Cindy]

Now why was I never informed that there was a bus, and that I could get on it? You were holding out on me! Now I am hurt and am going to go play with my pet rattlesnake.

You're on of US....:happydance :happydance

[Hoovie]

That chemical is really no biggie. We kept that stuff in the church back home.

[Cindy]

That chemical is really no biggie. We kept that stuff in the church back home.

???

[Jay]

???


I think he posted that comment on the wrong thread. He meant to post it on your other thread.

[AreYouReady?]

OOOoooo! A nutty bus! Just what I've been looking for. :evilglee :heeheehee

[AreYouReady?]

Now why was I never informed that there was a bus, and that I could get on it? You were holding out on me! Now I am hurt and am going to go play with my pet rattlesnake.

Aww now Jay...just go and crash the party on the bus. :nobodycares It's a nutty bus!

[deacon blues]

deacon, your spiritual contributions are much more insightful and beneficial than your politics. kudos.

Lol

[bbyrd009]

There talking about the long bus Jay;
(v the short bus)
and AYR is just taking advantage of your, um,
special knowledge here. :toofunny

[Cindy]

OOOoooo! A nutty bus! Just what I've been looking for. :evilglee :heeheehee

:happydance :happydance

[AreYouReady?]

There talking about the long bus Jay;
(v the short bus)
and AYR is just taking advantage of your, um,
special knowledge here. :toofunny

bbyrd, :didimiss

I'm going to have to sleep on this one here for the significance of the diff between long bus vs short bus. :heeheehee

Jay, do you have special knowledge that you are not sharing here? That might get you disqualified for the bus.

[AreYouReady?]

:happydance :happydance

:happydance :happydance :highfive :happydance

[bbyrd009]

Ok, yur totally making me give it away, but here
They're talking about the long bus Jay;
(v the short bus)
and AYR is just taking advantage of your, um,
"special" knowledge here. :toofunny

[Aquila]

I have a great passion for helping homosexuals. I feel the church, at least the ones I have been connected with, treated the issue with very little to no love. In 25 years of ministry I have had the opportunity to minister to 40 or so homosexuals, mostly males, to one degree or another. I don't sidestep the clear commands of Scripture concerning the sin, but I do have compassion and I believe Jesus can deliver the homosexual of the deep seated lies that consume the mind of the person struggling with same sex attractions.

In every case that I have dealt with, all 40 individuals did not have a normal, healthy relationship with their fathers. Either the father was physically absent from their lives, he was emotionally distant or he was physically or sexually abusive. I talked once about 20 years ago with Dr. Joseph Nicolosi in between sessions at a seminar and he confirmed my suspicions about the origins of homosexuality. He said in his practice that exclusively focused on the "reparative therapy" of male homosexuality that he never dealt with a single client that had a right relationship with their father. Its not the only contributor, but it's a huge factor.

Some homosexuals are adamant they have no desire to change. I have counseled with those and there is nothing you can do but release them to God and pray. Others I have counseled with could admit they struggled with same sex attractions but did not embrace a gay identity. Nicolosi calls these types of individuals as "non-gay homosexuals." One young man came to me years ago, a teenager, who admitted he had struggled with homosexual thoughts, that he had observed gay porn and he had a couple of homosexual encounters, one with another young man and one with a stranger in a park. He was mortified by his struggle. He was effeminate and had a dad who was clueless about emotional attachment and affection with his kids. He also had a strong mother who was definitely a matriarch type, more so out of necessity than desire, because of the apathy of the dad. This is also a reoccurring theme in a homosexual's homelife: a dominant mother, in many cases a smothering, overprotective, controlling figure that helps to encourage identifying with all things feminine rather than encouraging masculinity.

This young man communicated that he didn't want to be gay. He wanted to grow up, marry have kids and lead a normal life. We met for many weeks after school, praying, talking, doing Bible studies and being friends. That was 15 years ago and today he is happily married with children. When I see him I ask about how's doing and he knows what I mean and he'll communicate how he's doing in relationship to the temptations. I believe for him it will a lifetime challenge to overcome that sin, just like all of us who must deal with certain weaknesses that are against God's intended plan for our lives. The victory is that he came to me before he was too far into the lie and was able to focus on his desire to live for Jesus more than anything. He is living according to the truth and God continues to empower him to live victoriously.

As a side note, he called me one day to tell me he was getting engaged. He asked me if I thought he should share with her his past. I told him I thought was only fair tom tell her now than for her to learn about after marriage. He told her, she forgave him and said she loved him even more for his honesty. He is the best case of dealing with homosexuality that I personally know of, although there are thousands of "ex-gays" who are living proof that homosexuality can be overcome like any other sin.

Awesome post! :yourock

[Aquila]

I'm concerned with being too hard on a soft boy or a Tom-girl. Sometimes when we punish kids for things they begin to obsess over them. In the end it could cause a kid to question their identity and convince them that they are gay. For example, with potty training it appears that the bigger of an issue you make it... the more trouble many have with it.

Just a thought.

I always try to remember, Esau was a hunter. Jacob was a dweller in tents who cooked the pottage and venison with mom.

[Hoovie]

I'm concerned with being too hard on a soft boy or a Tom-girl. Sometimes when we punish kids for things they begin to obsess over them. In the end it could cause a kid to question their identity and convince them that they are gay. For example, with potty training it appears that the bigger of an issue you make it... the more trouble many have with it.

Just a thought.

I always try to remember, Esau was a hunter. Jacob was a dweller in tents who cooked the pottage and venison with mom.

I pretty much agree with this post. I would not consider cooking and housework homosexual behavior at all.

PS I hate camping when that means sleeping on a surface harder than a mattress.

[bbyrd009]

Amen to both of you. As a cooker of pottage with mom, so to speak,
growing up, I can witness that the wrist slap or whatever was exactly what I needed
to insure that I would never, ever be like him. Not sure why I'm not gay;
I guess it just manifests diff for diff people.

"I hate ______ when that means ______..."
Oh, I get the point there now,
but two weeks is all it takes for that hate
to be overcome. yes?

[Ferd]

What if a boy loves to cook and learns to make pastry and cakes?

Hey now!!!!!

[Aquila]

I would like to say... I think that there is no sure formula. Some are gay in spite of any efforts on behalf of their parents to "straighten them out". I'd like to tell these parents not to blame themselves. I'd also like to tell others not to judge these parents as though they could have prevented it. I've seen this personally. It's ugly.

I think it's a normal human reaction to try to find a formula in which one can trust to bring a desired result. The randomness and unknown variables of life can be disturbing for many.

I still think that sin has marred us body, mind, and spirit. The roots of a sinful inclination can therefore found in the flesh (biology), the soul (psychology), or the spirit (spirituality). Often our sinful nature has left its mark on all three aspects of our being. We must be patient and open to healing the whole person. As religious people we often focus on the spiritual and insist on a spiritual solution (ignoring the psychological and biological). Some go as far as to include a psychological course of action with a spiritual course of action. However, there is also the biology of the flesh to contend with... here we can either treat medically or pray for healing depending on the situation.

For example:

Excessive anger, wrath, and bitterness is a sin. Many have focused on the spiritual demanding repentance and will power to overcome. But the person still struggles with mood swings, wrath, bursts of anger and rage. Then we begin looking at the psychology behind it and admonish counseling. Often the problem continues. Then we consider biology and discover chemical/hormonal imbalances. These require medical treatment and/or divine healing. So here we see that for some, the sinful work of the flesh (anger, wrath, bursts of rage, bitterness) is linked to a biological issue. This bological issue doesn't minimize the sin. It only goes on to prove another dimension of what Paul meant when he wrote that there was no good thing in the flesh. The Bible explains that we are all born sinners by nature. It proves that even the flesh is often marred by sin. Sin is often found at work in every aspect of our being. We'd be a people most hopeless if not for grace.

Sometimes you can do all that you know to do and still undesirable things happen. Always remember, sin has warped every aspect of our being and there is nothing we can do to prevent some things. Just keep these things in mind.

[bbyrd009]

Yup-

"I think it's a normal human reaction to try to find a formula"

sweet. Oh, snap.
Maybe that is what Christ means @ "Be ye perfect," hmm...yup,
I think so. Yes, He means do do that, mmmkay? It's bad.
The..."formula" will become apparent when it is needed;
and you won't see it if you are embarked upon your own formula.

[Aquila]

Yup-

"I think it's a normal human reaction to try to find a formula"

sweet. Oh, snap.
Maybe that is what Christ means @ "Be ye perfect," hmm...yup,
I think so. Yes, He means do do that, mmmkay? It's bad.
The..."formula" will become apparent when it is needed;
and you won't see it if you are embarked upon your own formula.

WE can't be perfect. However, we can partake in His perfection. Christ IS our righteousness. We are being perfect in as much as we are abiding in Christ.

[bbyrd009]

Well, but we can, just not perfect as we are defining it?
Yup-

"I think it's a normal human reaction to try to find a formula"

sweet. Oh, snap.
Maybe that is what Christ means @ "Be ye perfect,"

The context even seems to support this; always seemed like
such a strange reply, at that...juncture.

[bbyrd009]

Yes; surely this won't track immediately, and I'm out the door, but--

See the sense in which Hitler was perfect, in the context of
"I created evil;"
Not pretty to us, not desired by the whole; not conforming to a higher nature--
none of those things. Perfectly manifesting. Hmm.

[bbyrd009]

:chirp

[bbyrd009]

a scorpion and a...fluffy bunny are both manifesting perfectly.
They result from the conditions extant at the time of their manifesting.
someday we won't have scorpions anymore, at least ones with
poison--when those conditions obtain.

the manifest mechanism is not broken.
those who think that other women
should not cut their hair...sorry, wrong thread--
gay people will stop manifesting when the
conditions that make gay people manifest
change, and they will manifest perfectly
until then.

[bbyrd009]

You are going to want to see the place where the New Age guys are right--
whether you go through Scripture, "can a hand be a foot?" Can hair be a tongue?
or its interpretation, "Iam he andyouare he andweare me...."
What connects Epley (mouth) with...AYR (hair)
the Body.

[Hoovie]

bbyrd, I must tell you...

Everytime I open a post from you it's like walking into a curiosity shop! It's interesting to be sure, but I'm often left to wonder what I'm looking at... Between the parsing and scattered quips there are treasures many, no doubt.

Not saying anything should change. Au contraire, it's fascinating in more ways than one, and I wanted you to know!

[bbyrd009]

supercalifragilistic...

[crakjak]

Exaggeration? He says, "Can I make it any clearer? Dads, the second you see your son dropping the limp wrist, you walk over there and crack that wrist. Man up. Give him a good punch."

Nutty, the very attitude that pushes a "Jacob" away!!

The Deacon Blues has some great stuff on the subject, right on!!!

We live in a broken world, it is how we respond to it, of which our works will be judged. One of my best friend's son recently, completely out of the blue, came out. I can tell you your attutide becomes much more objective when it is someone you love.

Why is it that we almost universially consider "same sex sins" worst than most other sin? Why are "crooked straight's sins" considered more natural???

Our pastor has mentored seven "gays" over the last twenty years, five of which he has performed their weddings, and all these five are still married to the same ladies and have children. Two are still in "church" and living celibate lives, and loving Jesus. Pastor Jim has written a book of this journey, and with input from these men, called, "Lepers Among Us". The title was chosen by the seven, explaining how they were treated by the culture and also by many in the church. This whole subject is about the church, as much as it is about the victims of this particular sin.

[ILG]

How should we as christians treat effeminate boys or "butch" girls? Does anyone agree with this pastor?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTiBv99MYDk

Sometimes people try to beat the gay out of their kids and it only causes resentment and distance. If my kids were gay, I would not be happy about it but I would hope that I would not burn the bridge between us.

[AreYouReady?]

Why is it that we almost universially consider "same sex sins" worst than most other sin? Why are "crooked straight's sins" considered more natural???


Good point.

[bbyrd009]

Good point.
Yup. I hear a reflection in the way child molesters are treated by
murderers and rapists in prison; and see a reflection in the way
my dog helps me scold the cat.

(ah; here, at least, is something I am superior to)

this is so their premises can be revealed.

[bbyrd009]

bbyrd, I must tell you...

Everytime I open a post from you it's like walking into a curiosity shop! It's interesting to be sure, but I'm often left to wonder what I'm looking at... Between the parsing and scattered quips there are treasures many, no doubt.

Not saying anything should change. Au contraire, it's fascinating in more ways than one, and I wanted you to know!

Rare to find someone who respects their own pov; ty, Hoovie.
Sorry I can mostly only reflect a "curious" pov about the mundane,
at this point...

[deacon blues]

The pastor apologizes:

http://www.churchleaders.com/mobile/pastors/pastor-articles/160788-pastor-apologizes-for-remarks-encouraging-parents-to-punch-their-gay-kids.html?utm_source=SermonCentral&utm_medium=banner&utm_content=300x600_RichMedia_NEW20120127&utm_campaign=YahooPipesFeed