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Sheila
06-28-2012, 09:56 AM
Why would we have to die first to become immortal? Why can't we be transformed now? It says in the last days that we will be changed in the twinkling of an eye. If were allowed to be changed physically then--then could we ask to become that new creation/creature now rather than later?
If we've only been baptized with water, then when do we get baptized, cleansed and scourged with fire by God?
Why would we have to leave Earth to find heaven--is Earth a less important part of God?
Is God really all things and all life? (Colossians 1:15-18)Then wouldn't heaven come forth from within?
Is God far away and somewhere else or is He within as He said? Don't we believe Him? Who else would hear our prayers?
Why would you need guardian angels when Jesus is whithin? God is the one who is all knowing and all powerful and warns not to worship angels. He also said that nothing comes between God and man. Angels were used in the old testament--not the new after God revealed the truth.
Shouldn't we beware of angels since a hoard of fallen are on Earth? God says we need nothing and no one but Him.

Amanah
06-28-2012, 10:49 AM
Question -Why would we have to die first to become immortal?

Answer: In a way we are already immortal because we will all live somewhere for eternity.

Question - Why can't we be transformed now? It says in the last days that we will be changed in the twinkling of an eye. If were allowed to be changed physically then--then could we ask to become that new creation/creature now rather than later?

Answer: The Bible says we can be born again of water and spirit, so we can be transformed right now

Question - If we've only been baptized with water, then when do we get baptized, cleansed and scourged with fire by God?

Answer: Um, not sure, maybe when we go thru fiery trials to purge us?

Question - Why would we have to leave Earth to find heaven--is Earth a less important part of God?

Answer – Earth is God’s creation, and he is going to make a new heaven and earth for us too.

Question - Is God really all things and all life? (Colossians 1:15-18)Then wouldn't heaven come forth from within?

Answer - The Kingdom of God is within when God rules in our hearts.

Question - Is God far away and somewhere else or is He within as He said? Don't we believe Him? Who else would hear our prayers?

Answer – God is everywhere, but he doesn’t violate our free will. We have to surrender to him to allow him to rule in our hearts. And yes, he hears our prayers.

Esaias
07-07-2012, 09:55 AM
Why would we have to die first to become immortal?

Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. - john 12:24

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. - romans 8:29

But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 1 corinthians 15:20-23

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. - 1 cor 15:45-49

Why can't we be transformed now? It says in the last days that we will be changed in the twinkling of an eye.

See above.

If were allowed to be changed physically then--then could we ask to become that new creation/creature now rather than later?

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. - 2 cor 5:17


more in a minute....

bbyrd009
07-07-2012, 10:30 AM
Hmm, a good "quote" answer, for sure.
A powerful witness for Unitarianism, too.

One's children might be said to grow up
in the twinkling of an eye...

Esaias
07-07-2012, 10:53 AM
Hmm, a good "quote" answer, for sure.
A powerful witness for Unitarianism, too.

One's children might be said to grow up
in the twinkling of an eye...

What's wrong with quoting Scripture that deals specifically with the subject at hand?

As for Unitarianism... the posted scriptures don't say anything about how many persons are or may be in the godhead.

Did you mean Universalism? If so, then I don't see those verses as a witness for Universalism at all. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Anyway...

:dogpat

Esaias
07-07-2012, 11:10 AM
If we've only been baptized with water, then when do we get baptized, cleansed and scourged with fire by God?

hmmm.... an entire denomination got built up around the answer to that very question, called the 'Fire Baptised Holiness Church'. They concluded that after the Baptism with the Holy Ghost, there was a 'Baptism with Fire' that was promised to believers.

Anyway, this whole 'baptised with fire' concept comes from John the Baptist (leave it to the baptists to preach about fire and scourging, lol) -

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire. Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire. matthew 3:11-12

John was baptising the people of Israel with a water baptism. But One was coming, he said, who would baptise the people with the Spirit. Obviously this refers at least in part to Pentecost. But there is a further reference in Matthew's account to being baptised 'with fire' and it is joined with the idea of harvesting the crop and burning up the chaff. This of course, as evidenced elsewhere in Scripture, refers to Judgement. Thus, the idea is that christ will purge Israel, saving the 'wheat' but destroying the 'tares' or 'chaff' with a permanent, unavoidable destruction.

So I would suggest the 'baptism with fire' is primarily referring to Judgement and separation, one of Christ's functions.

Others of course have taken it to be a metaphor for any type of trial that is used by God to purge the individual of whatever He wants to get rid of. Although I do not believe that is the PRIMARY intent of John's words, it certainly functions as a figurative reference to the individual's growth in Christ. And no wonder... Christ in effect re-enacted Israel's history, and we are to be conformed to His image, so it would make sense that what was to take place in Israel by God's decree would be reflected somewhat in the individual Christian life.

Esaias
07-07-2012, 11:21 AM
Why would we have to leave Earth to find heaven--is Earth a less important part of God?


'To find Heaven'??

The bible teaches the righteous shall dwell forever on the earth.

Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. matthew 5:5

But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever. - daniel 7:18

A word from the Geneva Study Bible margin notes:

Because Abraham was appointed heir of all the world, Ro 4:13, and in him all the faithful, therefore the kingdom of him is theirs by right, which these four beasts or tyrants would invade, and usurp until the world were restored by Christ. And this was to strengthen and encourage those that were in troubles, that their afflictions would eventually have an end.

From Barnes' Notes:

But the saints of the Most High shall take the kingdom - That is, they shall ultimately take possession of the rule over all the world, and shall control it from that time onward to the end.

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. - revelation 21:1-3

Esaias
07-07-2012, 11:26 AM
Is God really all things and all life? (Colossians 1:15-18)Then wouldn't heaven come forth from within?


That passage does not say 'God is all things and all life'. It says this:

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Is says Christ is the Supreme Authority of the church, that He is beginning (the source), the firstborn from the dead (first of the Resurrected Ones), so that in all things He (Christ) would be Numero Uno. It also says that all things were created by Him, that He is the visible representation of the invisible God, the 'firstborn' (ie the one with right of inheritance and position of supremacy).

Esaias
07-07-2012, 11:31 AM
Is God far away and somewhere else or is He within as He said? Don't we believe Him? Who else would hear our prayers?

God is neither 'here nor there' as far as physical location is concerned. He is 'omnipresent, meaning everywhere at once and at all times.

God being 'within' is a figure meant to describe the person controlled by the will and spirit of God. A person who doesn't have God inside would be a person who is in rebellion to the Divine Will.

It has little or nothing to do with physical locations in space, since God is the omnipresent Spirit.

God can of course appear at a particular point in space, and the Incarnation is the ultimate example of that, but that does not mean He is not also omnipresent.

If God is 'far away' that is a figure, a metaphor, an 'anthropomorphism' that really means we either do not understand what God is doing ("where are you, God? I need you!") or that we are separated from God by our sin, in a moral or spiritual sense (not a geo-spatial sense).

Esaias
07-07-2012, 11:39 AM
Why would you need guardian angels when Jesus is whithin? God is the one who is all knowing and all powerful and warns not to worship angels.

I don't see 'guardian angels' assigned to each individual in Scripture. I believe that is a pagan idea incorporated into Catholic folk-lore.


He also said that nothing comes between God and man.

Actually, the bible says sin separates us from God. It also says nothing can separate US (the saints, those who abide in Christ) from the LOVE of God. One can walk away from God, apostasize, fall away, whatever. And ultimately be damned. And yet still be loved by God. God's love does not set aside His Justice willy-nilly.

And there is someONE between God and man - the man Christ Jesus.

Angels were used in the old testament--not the new after God revealed the truth.

An angel broke Peter out of jail. Angels ministered to Christ. The book of Hebrews tells us to entertain strangers, for some have thereby entertained angels. The New Testament clearly shows angels still active even in this new covenant era - see the book of Revelation, which is chock full of angels doing things on God's behalf... including delivering the bulk of the message of Revelation to the apostle John.


Shouldn't we beware of angels since a hoard of fallen are on Earth? God says we need nothing and no one but Him.

We should beware of a false humility and worshipping of angels. I don't know about a 'horde of fallen angels on Earth'. Seems Jude said the angels which fell are chained up.

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. -jude 6

bbyrd009
07-07-2012, 11:48 AM
^Ha, I try to make the same point about Heaven. You are never going to "see" it, or be any "closer" to it than you are right now; it does not "exist" in that sense, etcetc.
1) What's wrong with quoting Scripture that deals specifically with the subject at hand?

As for Unitarianism... the posted scriptures don't say anything about how many persons are or may be in the godhead.

2) Did you mean Universalism? If so, then I don't see those verses as a witness for Universalism at all. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Anyway...

:dogpat1) Nothing at all! While it might be misused,
and construed as providing a rote answer, I wouldn't say that here.

I do see a real sense in which the legion of insincere quoters
that precede us have stolen that language, so to speak,
and render it ineffective in conversation with someone secular,
but that isn't the case here.

2) Ah,maybe I did mean Universalism...thot they were the same thing, lol.

Esaias
07-07-2012, 11:53 AM
^Ha, I try to make the same point about Heaven. You are never going to "see" it, or be any "closer" to it than you are right now; it does not "exist" in that sense, etcetc.
1) Nothing at all! While it might be misused,
and construed as providing a rote answer, I wouldn't say that here.

I do see a real sense in which the legion of insincere quoters
that precede us have stolen that language, so to speak,
and render it ineffective in conversation with someone secular,
but that isn't the case here.

2) Ah,maybe I did mean Universalism...thot they were the same thing, lol.

Gotcha.

:thumbsup

Praxeas
07-07-2012, 04:34 PM
Why would we have to die first to become immortal? Why can't we be transformed now? It says in the last days that we will be changed in the twinkling of an eye. If were allowed to be changed physically then--then could we ask to become that new creation/creature now rather than later?

Because God's plan is for 1 rapture not millions?

If we've only been baptized with water, then when do we get baptized, cleansed and scourged with fire by God?
When you receive the Holy Spirit.

Why would we have to leave Earth to find heaven--is Earth a less important part of God?
You don't find heaven. Heaven is not a state of consciousness but a plane of existence that is not the same as earth. Therefore you have to leave California to get to Arizona and you have to leave Earth to get to Heaven.

Earth is not a part of God. The bible God is not pantheism. God is Spirit.

Is God really all things and all life? (Colossians 1:15-18)Then wouldn't heaven come forth from within?
No the bible God is NOT a pantheistic God. God is a living intelligent being whose state of being is transcendent. All this verse states is He created all things

Is God far away and somewhere else or is He within as He said?
God's spiritual domain is Heaven. His Spirit presence is said to be inside each believer

Don't we believe Him?
We who? I do

Who else would hear our prayers?
Nobody

Why would you need guardian angels when Jesus is within?
I don't believe in Guardian angels but the truth is God chooses to interact with the created world through mediators. God is not an invisible force like Star Wars that we can tap into and do super stuff

God is the one who is all knowing and all powerful and warns not to worship angels.
Who is worshiping angels?

He also said that nothing comes between God and man. Angels were used in the old testament--not the new after God revealed the truth.
False!

Mat 28:5 But the angel said to the women, "Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified.

Act 5:19 But during the night an angel of the Lord opened the prison doors and brought them out, and said,

Act 8:26 Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, "Rise and go toward the south to the road that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza." This is a desert place.

Act 10:3 About the ninth hour of the day he saw clearly in a vision an angel of God come in and say to him, "Cornelius."

Act 12:7 And behold, an angel of the Lord stood next to him, and a light shone in the cell. He struck Peter on the side and woke him, saying, "Get up quickly." And the chains fell off his hands.

Act 12:23 Immediately an angel of the Lord struck him down, because he did not give God the glory, and he was eaten by worms and breathed his last.

Act 27:23 For this very night there stood before me an angel of the God to whom I belong and whom I worship,

Shouldn't we beware of angels since a hoard of fallen are on Earth? God says we need nothing and no one but Him.

No

fireofGod1996
08-14-2012, 03:31 PM
Why would we have to die first to become immortal? Why can't we be transformed now? It says in the last days that we will be changed in the twinkling of an eye. If were allowed to be changed physically then--then could we ask to become that new creation/creature now rather than later?
If we've only been baptized with water, then when do we get baptized, cleansed and scourged with fire by God?
Why would we have to leave Earth to find heaven--is Earth a less important part of God?
Is God really all things and all life? (Colossians 1:15-18)Then wouldn't heaven come forth from within?
Is God far away and somewhere else or is He within as He said? Don't we believe Him? Who else would hear our prayers?
Why would you need guardian angels when Jesus is whithin? God is the one who is all knowing and all powerful and warns not to worship angels. He also said that nothing comes between God and man. Angels were used in the old testament--not the new after God revealed the truth.
Shouldn't we beware of angels since a hoard of fallen are on Earth? God says we need nothing and no one but Him.

I agree with the above about Universalism, but not Unitarianism. I can prove, Scripturally, that there is only One God and is one, undivisable person. But this is not the time for that arguement. As for the questions about the angels, Angels are the handmaidens of God. He uses them just as much as He uses Himself. If you have the true Holy Spirit, then you become aware of the deep Spiritual things. It's hard for me to explain. And yes Angels are used in the New Testament. The thing about Angels is that they look like you. God sent an Angel to tell Cornelius in Acts ch.10, that his prayers were just a memorial before God. In Acts ch 12, an Angel was sent to Peter to release him from prison. When Peter cam to Mary's house, Rhoda cried that Peter was at the Gate of the house. Mary and John said that it was his Angel in Acts 12:15. Angels are all around us, but we don't recognize it because many people do not have the Truth of the Fullness of the Gospel.

bbyrd009
08-14-2012, 08:23 PM
"Quote:
If we've only been baptized with water, then when do we get baptized, cleansed and scourged with fire by God?
When you receive the Holy Spirit."

Hmm.

"Quote:
Why would we have to leave Earth to find heaven--is Earth a less important part of God?
You don't find heaven. Heaven is not a state of consciousness but a plane of existence that is not the same as earth. Therefore you have to leave California to get to Arizona and you have to leave Earth to get to Heaven."

Ah, sorry. This is a total fail.
"The Kingdom of Heaven is beside you." That's right now,
and we are assured "...on earth, as it is in Heaven." Sooo...

And ya, the first one, too.
When I received the Spirit
is not when I started getting scourged, anyway,
although I guess it is possible.
The scourging is voluntary, really, in a sense;
I know many, prolly most Christians never really
advance to the scourging part.

Took me a long time, anyway,
and I'm prolly still being recalcitrant about it.

You started getting scourged right away, Prax?

bbyrd009
08-14-2012, 08:24 PM
"Because God's plan is for 1 rapture not millions?'

How do you know?

(shredding cont'd momentarily;
please stand by)

bbyrd009
08-14-2012, 08:37 PM
"Quote:
Is God really all things and all life? (Colossians 1:15-18)Then wouldn't heaven come forth from within?
No the bible God is NOT a pantheistic God."

Amen, amen, amen. I got Scripture for all that.

bbyrd009
08-14-2012, 08:38 PM
"I don't believe in Guardian angels..."

Well, I think you will.

bbyrd009
08-14-2012, 08:40 PM
(Dual shred begins here)
"The thing about Angels is that they look like you..."
Well, they are Spirit; they can, yes.
But they may not. i got scripture for that, too.
(Dual shred ends here)
Cont'd...

bbyrd009
08-14-2012, 08:46 PM
"God is not an invisible force like Star Wars that we can tap into and do super stuff..."

Um, although I maybe get your point,
as God is not Santa Claus, I plan on
doin some tappin'.
Walking on water will be boring.

bbyrd009
08-14-2012, 08:50 PM
Man, I'm tappin' right now.
Oh, but you mean miracles.
They are for unbelievers.

bbyrd009
08-14-2012, 08:59 PM
"Quote:
Shouldn't we beware of angels since a hoard of fallen are on Earth? God says we need nothing and no one but Him.
No"

Hmm, Discernment was
a difficult lesson for me,
but perhaps not Prax.

I would say yes, beware.
Any Spirit that does not agree that Christ
has come in the flesh is a bad spirit.
This all happens in your head,
or as you query this spirit out loud, whatever.
And nevermind what anyone in the room thinks,
who does not hear the same "yea" or "nay"
that you do.

I got Script for that, too, but you may search
"testing spirits" in any Bible engine online,
and Prax knows these verses; so maybe I
heard the Q wrong?
(Prax?)

(Shred ends here)

Timmy
08-15-2012, 06:53 AM
:popcorn2

bbyrd009
08-15-2012, 08:33 AM
I don't doubt that Prax might be able
to defend his words; it is the impression
that I, at least, was left with that I object to.
So I hope to learn from his reply,
although frankly these views as I read them
are...disturbing. Surely I mistook some Q or A.

Timmy
08-15-2012, 08:36 AM
I don't doubt that Prax might be able
to defend his words; ....

Always! :lol

bbyrd009
08-16-2012, 07:42 AM
:crickets

bbyrd009
08-16-2012, 08:19 AM
I mean, "one needn't beware
of evil spirits?"
???

Timmy
08-16-2012, 08:59 AM
I mean, "one needn't beware
of evil spirits?"
???

What power do they have over, e.g., you?

bbyrd009
08-16-2012, 10:05 AM
What power do they have over, e.g., you?Ask Job.

Timmy
08-16-2012, 10:14 AM
Ask Job.

Oh. My. G-word. You are kidding, right? Job? You can't be serious. You are comparing yourself with Job? Really?

"Has thou considered my servant bbyrd?" :toofunny

bbyrd009
08-16-2012, 12:34 PM
Oh. My. G-word. You are kidding, right? Job? You can't be serious. You are comparing yourself with Job? Really?

"Has thou considered my servant bbyrd?" :toofunnyYes, but we aren't comparing my sanctity with Job's, you obtuse little man; we are examining what an evil spirit may do with a person--one with discernment, I might add. Get a clue.

Timmy
08-16-2012, 12:46 PM
Yes, but we aren't comparing my sanctity with Job's, you obtuse little man; we are examining what an evil spirit may do with a person--one with discernment, I might add. Get a clue.

OK, sorry. Guess I read too much into it.

So, you are saying that demons do have power over people. They can harm them. Even someone with discernment, apparently.

And are you also saying that this kind of thing (demons giving people boils, etc.) can happen today? Does it happen today?

bbyrd009
08-16-2012, 02:19 PM
OK, sorry. Guess I read too much into it.

So, you are saying that demons do have power over people. They can harm them. Even someone with discernment, apparently.

And are you also saying that this kind of thing (demons giving people boils, etc.) can happen today? Does it happen today?Well, I dislike this immediate descent into the physical, when they act spiritually. The physical manifestation results from actions taken in the spiritual plane. While I don't see why what happened to Job might not be possible with anyone, admittedly he was a special case, having earned special testing.

And obviously, he graduated. For most of us, however, the lessons are much more mundane, although still relative to Job. Do you ever lose your temper? Trust that whatever brought you to that point was a test that you failed, and demons were allowed to administer it. I get them all the time, from you even, and I either pass or fail them.

Your Q amounts to "are we in Heaven yet?" to me,
so i suspect you are either being disingenuous again,
or have followed Prax off the rails. What kind of Q is this, anyway?

"Do we need to beware of evil spirits anymore?"
duh. the Q is, can you recognize, discern an evil spirit
when it offers you an evil choice, in your next decision.
An evil spirit is what one gets in the sin unto death,
which is essentially refusing to be taught the next lesson.

bbyrd009
08-16-2012, 02:20 PM
They only have what power we give them.

Timmy
08-16-2012, 02:40 PM
Well, I dislike this immediate descent into the physical, when they act spiritually. The physical manifestation results from actions taken in the spiritual plane. While I don't see why what happened to Job might not be possible with anyone, admittedly he was a special case, having earned special testing.
That reminds me. I owe someone a book report on "Job". ;)

And obviously, he graduated. For most of us, however, the lessons are much more mundane, although still relative to Job. Do you ever lose your temper? Trust that whatever brought you to that point was a test that you failed, and demons were allowed to administer it.
Sigh.
I get them all the time, from you even,
:lol
and I either pass or fail them.

Your Q amounts to "are we in Heaven yet?" to me,
so i suspect you are either being disingenuous again,
:blink

or have followed Prax off the rails.
:toofunny
What kind of Q is this, anyway?
:blink

"Do we need to beware of evil spirits anymore?"
duh. the Q is, can you recognize, discern an evil spirit
when it offers you an evil choice, in your next decision.
An evil spirit is what one gets in the sin unto death,
which is essentially refusing to be taught the next lesson.
:blink

bbyrd009
08-16-2012, 05:01 PM
Ok, those are all imo; but
"does one need to beware evil spirits"
answers itself, from Scripture
or common sense.

God does not tempt anyone to sin.

bbyrd009
08-16-2012, 05:03 PM
And, the clueless, gratuitous smilies,
coming from a heretic, just somehow
lose their punch, sorry.

Timmy
08-17-2012, 12:48 PM
And, the clueless, gratuitous smilies,
coming from a heretic, just somehow
lose their punch, sorry.

:barbell::situps::statbike::bigweightlift::karate:

bbyrd009
08-17-2012, 04:06 PM
Really, this whole approach is off;
we, even Christians, are much more
comfortable with satan than with Christ;
it is what we come from.

I could provide endless examples,
that would all surely just rate another smilie from you,
because we have been raised with them;
they are a part of us.

Either I am possessed of certain evil spirits,
or I am perfect.
We follow a path that will rid us of our possessions.
Of course, no Christian wants to admit this.

Dalton
08-19-2012, 09:34 AM
I was under the impression that all forms of sickness were spirits.

Mark 9:25
When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.

Also I don't see why someone aspiring to be christian would deny having spirits in them. Mary had seven in her herself.

I kind of look at it like a craving for food. Everynow and then I will be sitting around and bam I want pizza. I know I didn't just think that up out of the blue but the body and spirit are two seperate things and the flesh wanted a pizza.

Same way with a demonic spirit. Like when asked a question and someone lies about it off the top of their head. It just comes to you, we've all been there. Or when your all alone driving down the street and a beautiful woman or man crosses the street and for some reason you have a lustful thought. It's not that you wanted to or that it came from yourself its just it popped in there. I believe that is demonic. That's why my turning to christianity from asatru was so baffling to me. Those thoughts that I were having just seemed to simply vanish for a while (when I was all pumped up and ready to go for the lord, but as I slacked, the thoughts came back and I can notice how I'm affected mentally whether I am going to church or not.) Like a car battery.

I believe demonic possession and things of that sort are something we as christians should be very very aware of and vigilant not to get tricked into believing otherwise.

Matthew 24:24
"For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were possible."

So if man as a false christ or prophet could decieve the elect if it were possible. How much more so could a couple of thousand year old spirits decieve and twist our thoughts. Simply by making suggestions that we percieve to be our own?

bbyrd009
08-19-2012, 10:33 AM
yup.

Dalton
08-19-2012, 03:14 PM
I figured I'd go ahead and give my input to these questions sheila asked.

Why would we have to die first to become immortal?

To shed the vessel we were given charge over.

Why can't we be transformed now?

We are in the middle of a trial, the purpose of the trial being can we govern the earthly vessel/temple that we are given through the events we experience and how we deal with them here on earth.

2 Timothy 2:15
"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

1 Peter 1:7
"That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:"

It says in the last days that we will be changed in the twinkling of an eye. If were allowed to be changed physically then--then could we ask to become that new creation/creature now rather than later?

No, that would negate the purpose of living here in satans kingdom.. we are supposed to be an example, and use the flesh that we are given unto god and prove that what we are doing is the perfect will of god. If we cannot perform the tasks we are given here on earth, how will we perform the tasks that lay after this?

1 Corinthians 6:3
"Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?"

1 timothy 4:16
"Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee."

Acts 2:40
"And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation."


If we've only been baptized with water, then when do we get baptized, cleansed and scourged with fire by God?

Upon recieving the holy spirit.

Acts 19:2-6
" He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied."


Why would we have to leave Earth to find heaven--is Earth a less important part of God?

Satan is the god of this world.

2 corinthians 4:4

"In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."


Is God really all things and all life? (Colossians 1:15-18)

Christ is the source of all life. All is done to show his glory however...

John 8:44
"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

If he is the father of lies, how could God be the father as well? God is not the only being that creates. We were created in his image and given the ability to think, create what we think, and destroy it all the same and according to the verse above satan can too. Yes god plays a role in all of it by allowing or not allowing it, but free will and things of that sort play into that as well.

Then wouldn't heaven come forth from within?

How would that even be possible unless you were referring to heaven as a mental state... even at that

1 corinthians 2:9

"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him."

How can it come from within us if we can't even begin to imagine it?


Is God far away and somewhere else or is He within as He said?
Don't we believe Him? Who else would hear our prayers? Why would you need guardian angels when Jesus is whithin?

Where is the biblical proof for guardian angels? I've never heard any such thing. If jesus was already within why would we need the holy spirit. Back to john 8:44, if we are of our father devil before the indwelling of the spirit how could Jesus be within a product of the devil?

God is the one who is all knowing and all powerful and warns not to worship angels. He also said that nothing comes between God and man.

Sin seperates us from god, if thats not true then there is no need for hell or half of the bible.

Angels were used in the old testament--not the new after God revealed the truth.
Shouldn't we beware of angels since a hoard of fallen are on Earth? God says we need nothing and no one but Him.

1 John 4:1 states

"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."

So yes I would be wary, but not all spirits are evil.

Dalton
08-20-2012, 07:31 AM
Further more to go on the God is within statement.

Ephesians 1:4-6
"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved."

It uses the word adoption, to be adopted we must belong to something else before hand. That's why using the authority of the name is so important. It is our lineage our direct line to the father, he has given us his name. We hold more power than we know, Jesus himself said this

John 14:12
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father."

Greater works than him.... to most that would seem blasphemous... but everything Jesus done appeared blasphemous to the world during his time, and so it would appear to be now, but that also fulfills him saying

John 15:18-27
"If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also. But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me. If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin. He that hateth me hateth my Father also. If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father. But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause. But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning."