The Evangelical Error of Billy Graham

[Enow]

His altar call is being largely ignored by many believers in Jesus Christ.

Billy Graham would preach the Gospel: but not fully.

He would say: "It is not going to church every Sunday that is going to save you. It is not by keeping the Ten commandments that is going to save you. It is all those that call upon the name of the Lord."

Pretty much the gist of it in the quote above:

But... this is where he stops preaching the Gospel fully and that is at the altar call.

"If you are not sure you are saved..."

One really has to think about this as most of those that responded are believers in Jesus Christ already.

"If you are not sure you are saved... come forward and make a commitment to follow Christ."

Now you all ask Jesus for discernment if you cannot see the error of that altar call.

Why didn't Billy Graham say this? :

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"If you are not sure you are saved.... if you had called on the name of the Lord, know that you are saved!"

"For those that want to be saved, call on the name of the Lord now and rest in the promise of God that you are saved for believing in Jesus Christ as Your Saviour for that is why Jesus came.. to save sinners from their sins so that they will no longer live in them."

"Now for those that are new believers and for those that had been unsure about your salvation, come forward, and we will give you a packet in how to be a disciple of Jesus Christ for this packet contains all the promises of God by which your love for Jesus will grow more and more in the knowledge of Him as you place your trust in Him as Your Good Shepherd to help you live the christian life as you do as Your Saviour for eternal life."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

But.. no. That is what Billy Graham should have said so that he has fully preached the Gospel, but he did not.

He preached a commitment to follow Christ and by keeping it is the means for the assurance of salvation... making the believers obedient by word and deed which Paul would never do by placing a yoke of bondage on a believer... for God has received him by faith in Jesus Christ.

Romans 15: 15Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God, 16That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 17I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God. 18For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed, 19Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

By the grace of God only, we are called to disciple believers by having them continue in the word in the KJV to edify them in the faith to keep which is the good fight. We do so by the preaching of the scriptures as we look to God to cause the increase.

Believers should not look to a religious calling to place on a believer to "get them to follow Jesus" and thereby get out of discipling and edifying one another in the faith.

No one can deny that many mighty men and nobles would respond to religious callings of that nature... therefore that altar call is not the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ and it causes the believers to labour in unbelief if they think that by keeping it assures their salvation when no one can finsih by the flesh what Christ began by the Spirit.... and that is why the just shall live by faith... and not by the commitment to follow Christ for by the commitment to follow Christ which testifies of the man that speaks to his glory as a man keeping it... is the knowledge of sin and no one will be justified by it.

Those under the yoke of bondage can ask Jesus to set them free and never entangle themselves in any religious yoke of bondages again. We are to rest in Jesus when we came to Him as all the promises of God are yes in Christ Jesus.

This is how we get to know Him and the power of His resurrection when we see ourselves living by faith in the Son of God to live as His as well as for eternal life.

Galatians 2: 20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Galatians 3: 14That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

So it is unfortunate that brother Billy Graham has gone astray and has even voiced uncertainity about being received by Christ in His kingdom in an interview at one time and why not? He is judging himself by that commitment to follow Christ: He needs to remember this and be set free.

Colossians 1: 20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. 21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

[houston]

O.o

[Dordrecht]

Didn't Billy say a few controversial things when he visited the "Glass Cathedral"?
If I remember well he and Robert Schuller made a comment about "there are many different ways to God".....or something to that effect.
Anyhow....I'm not a baptist, so I would disagree with a few other things as well.

One thing I DO know is, that many became Christians through his ministry, so, that's a good thing.

[Enow]

Didn't Billy say a few controversial things when he visited the "Glass Cathedral"?
If I remember well he and Robert Schuller made a comment about "there are many different ways to God".....or something to that effect.

This ministry covers the comrpomises done by Billy Graham.

http://www.wayoflife.org/database/grahamandrome.html

There is a youtube on the both of those men mentioned in your quote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axxlXy6bLH0

Anyhow....I'm not a baptist, so I would disagree with a few other things as well.

One thing I DO know is, that many became Christians through his ministry, so, that's a good thing.

Then you need to lean on the Lord to discern more because it is christians that are being led astray rather than calling non-believers to the altar.

[Dordrecht]

Then you need to lean on the Lord to discern more...



I guess you are the authority on discernment?

I know one fellow who came to Christ at one of Billy Grahams crusades in the 1950's when he was having meetings in Europe.
That man is right now still involved in eastern Europe preaching the full gospel message.....

Be careful what you say, God can do anything.

[Enow]

I guess you are the authority on discernment?

I know one fellow who came to Christ at one of Billy Grahams crusades in the 1950's when he was having meetings in Europe.
That man is right now still involved in eastern Europe preaching the full gospel message.....

Be careful what you say, God can do anything.

God will not operate outside of His will.

Are they saved?

Everyone that believes in Jesus Christ: even in His name are saved.

Are they following Him by faith? No. Keeping their commitment to follow Him is a conifidence placed in man or in themselves: that is not the same thing as living by faith in the Son of God of Whom our confidence rests in that He will finish what He has begun in us.

I have walked that doubleminded road of the religious flesh long enough. Even though He was and still is with me always, I had followed Him in vain and in misery, but no more.

Having been delivered, I will not compromise the faith in Jesus Christ to give partiality to anyone testifying of their commitment when scriptures plainly states it is a false witness:

John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

And a false witness is what defiles a man:

Matthew 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20 These are the things which defile a man:

So how about every believer be careful about what they say in how they bear witness?

Matthew 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. 35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. 36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

John 2:24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men, 25 And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.

So what are we testifying of: the believer's commitment or our faith in Jesus Christ, because they are not the same thing. His words plainly says so and warns against false witnessing.

So when will believer be careful about what they say in that regards?

[Dordrecht]

God will not operate outside of His will.

How do YOU know if this fellow is out of God's will?
You don't even know the guy.

[Acts238Prechr]

His altar call is being largely ignored by many believers in Jesus Christ.

Billy Graham would preach the Gospel: but not fully.

He would say: "It is not going to church every Sunday that is going to save you. It is not by keeping the Ten commandments that is going to save you. It is all those that call upon the name of the Lord."

Pretty much the gist of it in the quote above:

But... this is where he stops preaching the Gospel fully and that is at the altar call.

"If you are not sure you are saved..."

One really has to think about this as most of those that responded are believers in Jesus Christ already.

"If you are not sure you are saved... come forward and make a commitment to follow Christ."

Now you all ask Jesus for discernment if you cannot see the error of that altar call.

Why didn't Billy Graham say this? :

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


This post appears to be a little old, and while I usually hate to drag up old threads I am going to use the excuse that I am new here as the culprit.

Although I agree that there is Error in Billy Grahams message I think it is more than what you posted. I agree with the Scriptures you wrote from Galatians and Romans. But before we can look at those books and understand them fully, we have to understand and obey Acts first. All the Churches that Paul wrote too were all created in the book of Acts.

You asked a good question 'Why stop there?' and I can say that about the things you had mentioned that he should of said.

Why stop at just believing when Scripture tells us they must be baptized after you believe? We must be born of water and Spirit in order to enter the kingdom of Heaven. Despite what some pastors want to teach and majority of trinity believing folk were taught. Scriptures are adament that those that 'believe and are baptized are saved'. We must follow the Apostles doctrine and how they did things. For they know more about what God's salvation plan is better than anyone living today.

So why stop at just asking Jesus into your heart? Thats not even Scriptural, bring them to the water, baptize them in Jesus Name and they shall receive the Holy Spirit. This and only this fulfills Matthew 28:19 and more importantly John 3 by being born again of water and Spirit. I tell you that merely calling upon the name of the Lord will profit you nothing if you have not been born again in this manner first. Jesus even said those that say Lord Lord will not enter the kingdom of Heaven. Didn't the goats in the last days say they cast out demons in His Name and prophesied in His Name? Yet Jesus didn't know them. Could be because they believed in a 3 person god instead of the One True God that manifested Himself into flesh and dwelt among us? Regardless of why, the goats apparently believed and had faith in Jesus and called upon His Name.

So although I agree that there is Error in bro Graham, God will have Mercy on who He has Mercy on. But there is a lot of false security being preached these days. Paul tells us, Follow me as I follow Christ! What did Paul do when he ran across a believer baptized a different way? You must be baptized in the Name of Jesus and you will receive this Holy Ghost (Acts 10).

When Paul and Silas were in prison, the earth shook and all the gates were opened. The guard was going to kill himself but Paul spoke up, the guard was shaken and asked Paul the same question people ask us as believers: (Acts 16) "30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house."

As we see here Paul didn't stop at just believing in Jesus or asking Jesus into your heart. After they believed, he preached to them the Word of God, then baptized them in Jesus Name. This is the pattern the Apostles laid down for us to follow.

After Peter preached to the crowd they were pricked at their heart and asked the same question 'What must we do to be saved?'

Peter could of said anything.
Peter could of said:
'Say a sinners prayer and you will be saved!' or
'Ask Jesus to come into your heart and you will be saved!' or
'Join my church and you will be saved!' or
'Just shake my hand and tithe my church and you will be saved!' or
'Just be baptized in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost and you will be saved!'

He could of said any of that, had it been true. But he was just filled with the Holy Ghost with evidence by speaking in tongues and it wasn't him talking at this point. It was God speaking through him because he was anointed. He said 'Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the Name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost'

So this is how we are to do things, this is the heart of soul winning.

Dont stop at just the believing part - get them baptized in Jesus Name for the remission of Sins so that they shall receive the Holy Ghost which is the earnest of our inheritance in Heaven. Without it, they are not saved.

Lord bless.

[Sam]

10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
1 john 5:10-13

[Acts238Prechr]

I fully agree with you Sam. But again, 1 John was written to the Church founded in Acts of the Apostles. We can see after Pentecost that it is more than just believing. Sure believing is important, but that is Part A of Step 1. Now that ye believe, you need to Repent, be baptized in the Name of Jesus so you shall receive the Holy Ghost.

This is exactly why Paul asked in Acts 10 - Have ye received the Holy Ghost since you believed? Because God revealed to him that after you believe you must be baptized and most importantly will receive the Holy Ghost.

When you are born again, then you can rely on faith and knowing that your faith in Christ will save you.

If there is no death to our flesh, how can we say we have been crucified with Christ?

How can the blood of Christ be poured on us if there is no submersion in baptism to signify the death of Christ.

Paul wrote in Romans 6: "3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God."

By baptism we 'put on Christ' and become Christ-like. When we receive the Holy Ghost we recieve Power. The same Power the Apostles had, the same Power Jesus had but with less measure. Because Scripture tells us that Jesus had the Holy Ghost without measure. We only become heirs to the Kingdom of God after you receive the Holy Ghost. The Spirit is our earnest inheritance, the Promise that was spoken of by God since Isaiah that He will speak to His with through Stammering Lips and a foreign tongue. The Spirit can only give you utterance after you receive the Holy Ghost.

The Apostles taught that once you believe the Gospel of Jesus you then Repent and are baptized. This is shown at least 4 times in Acts of the Apostles alone and preached by Paul in the Letter to the Churches. There are no Scriptures that can be posted that would take away with what this says, it only adds to it. Yes you have to have faith, yes you have to believe..this is all done before you are baptized, this is a requirement before you are baptized and given the Holy Ghost.

It is through the faith of Jesus Christ that we are saved. We have faith that His life, death and resurrection destroys death and reconciled us to God. At the same time, Jesus plainly said that you must be born of water and Spirit in order to even see the kingdom of Heaven. the only way we can be born again is to follow Acts 2:38. Again, this isn't an opinion, this is the Word of God. Scripture clearly tells us that 'Let the Word of God be true, and every man a liar'. If its in the Bible, it should be followed.

Lord bless.

[samuelofisrael]

It is through the faith of Jesus Christ that we are saved. We have faith that His life, death and resurrection destroys death and reconciled us to God. At the same time, Jesus plainly said that you must be born of water and Spirit in order to even see the kingdom of Heaven. the only way we can be born again is to follow Acts 2:38. Again, this isn't an opinion, this is the Word of God. Scripture clearly tells us that 'Let the Word of God be true, and every man a liar'. If its in the Bible, it should be followed

Yes, precisely the truth, that is, by FAITH.

Yes, precisely the truth, that is, by water AND the SPRIT.

Yes, precisely the truth, that is, one MUST be BORN AGAIN.


The New Birth PRECEEDS Acts 2:38. Immersion in water in the NAME of the Lord [in Apostolic days, the NAME J E S U S was unknown, that was much later as a result of translations, transliteration], thus the act of immersion without the New Birth is meaningless. The act of obedience to the Commandment brings inclusion into the fellowship of saints but never does it in itself procure the New Birth.

If it is by FAITH [and it is] then there is no act, devotion, ordinance, principle, work, humbling of oneself that can award the New Birth to a lost and dying sinner.

One begins at the beginning then entire valley of promises and training awaits him/her.

The Apostolic converts were NEVER baptised in the NAME of J E S U S. One could be immersed today in the NAME YESHUA and be obedient to the Command to be baptised in the NAME of the LORD.

But I undestand the principle. The greater point being immersion does not bring new life. A "work" can never ingratiate one to God in terms of eternal salvation otherwise it is NOT by FAITH ALONE but by FAITH AND WORKS. In fact, one will never follow, believe, obey [in truth] the LORD apart from the sovereign GRACE of God in election to LIFE. A mystic, a religionist or others who adopt apparent spiritual principles in life [philosophy] can never enter the Kingdom of God. True Apostolic Doctrine everywhere trumpets the teaching of GRACE, GRACE, GRACE. That being so, man is revealed in his true condition, lost and powerless to save himself, to believe, to please God, to enter the Kingdom.

Peter, no doubt somewhat frustrated declared, "who then can be saved?"

You know the answer, "With men this is IMPOSSIBLE but with GOD all things are possible."

The more "man" one is, the less GOD becomes in man's own imagination.

Who then can be saved? With you and me it is IMPOSSIBLE.


"But I was immersed in the NAME of J E S U S."

Apart from the New Birth all you accomplised was the need for a dry towel.

New Birth ---->>> Immersion --->>> Life of continuing sanctification and spiritual growth.

[ground000]

I call to mind what my pastor always says, and that is: "Never take a man's word over God's word. Always check it against God's word."

Doesn't matter who the man is, every great man has positives in his life. And the majority have negatives as well.

[larrylyates]

Much of this discussion simply serves to highlight the tremendous deception that has crept into the church. It is unfortunate to read posts such as this in an "Apostolic" forum. Have we strayed so far from the Gospel? "The modern Church’s teaching of salvation by the “Roman Road” and “Sinner’s Prayer,” is like the Fire Department coming to your house and unplugging your smoke detector when your house is on fire! Find True Biblical Salvation the way the original Church did on the Day of Pentecost: Obey Acts 2:38! Simple profession of faith means nothing. Even the devils believe. He only gives His Holy Spirit to those who obey Him (Acts 5:32; Heb. 5:9)." At least one apostolic tried to point this out! You should go back and re-read his posts. The gospel of Billy Graham and the modern evangelical movement is NOT the Gospel of Christ. WAKE UP CHURCH!
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 7:13-15 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

[Dordrecht]

It is unfortunate to read posts such as this in an "Apostolic" forum.

........I've seen a lot worse on this forum....

[Godzchild]

........I've seen a lot worse on this forum....

:nod

[larrylyates]

It is through the faith of Jesus Christ that we are saved. We have faith that His life, death and resurrection destroys death and reconciled us to God. At the same time, Jesus plainly said that you must be born of water and Spirit in order to even see the kingdom of Heaven. the only way we can be born again is to follow Acts 2:38. Again, this isn't an opinion, this is the Word of God. Scripture clearly tells us that 'Let the Word of God be true, and every man a liar'. If its in the Bible, it should be followed

Yes, precisely the truth, that is, by FAITH.

Yes, precisely the truth, that is, by water AND the SPRIT.

Yes, precisely the truth, that is, one MUST be BORN AGAIN.


The New Birth PRECEEDS Acts 2:38. Immersion in water in the NAME of the Lord [in Apostolic days, the NAME J E S U S was unknown, that was much later as a result of translations, transliteration], thus the act of immersion without the New Birth is meaningless. The act of obedience to the Commandment brings inclusion into the fellowship of saints but never does it in itself procure the New Birth.

If it is by FAITH [and it is] then there is no act, devotion, ordinance, principle, work, humbling of oneself that can award the New Birth to a lost and dying sinner.

One begins at the beginning then entire valley of promises and training awaits him/her.

The Apostolic converts were NEVER baptised in the NAME of J E S U S. One could be immersed today in the NAME YESHUA and be obedient to the Command to be baptised in the NAME of the LORD.

But I undestand the principle. The greater point being immersion does not bring new life. A "work" can never ingratiate one to God in terms of eternal salvation otherwise it is NOT by FAITH ALONE but by FAITH AND WORKS. In fact, one will never follow, believe, obey [in truth] the LORD apart from the sovereign GRACE of God in election to LIFE. A mystic, a religionist or others who adopt apparent spiritual principles in life [philosophy] can never enter the Kingdom of God. True Apostolic Doctrine everywhere trumpets the teaching of GRACE, GRACE, GRACE. That being so, man is revealed in his true condition, lost and powerless to save himself, to believe, to please God, to enter the Kingdom.

Peter, no doubt somewhat frustrated declared, "who then can be saved?"

You know the answer, "With men this is IMPOSSIBLE but with GOD all things are possible."

The more "man" one is, the less GOD becomes in man's own imagination.

Who then can be saved? With you and me it is IMPOSSIBLE.


"But I was immersed in the NAME of J E S U S."

Apart from the New Birth all you accomplised was the need for a dry towel.

New Birth ---->>> Immersion --->>> Life of continuing sanctification and spiritual growth.

Water Baptism is not a work of man by which he somehow earns or merits Salvation. it is a work of God, by which He remits our sins and is an essential component of Biblical Salvation. It is only one of three components described in Acts as necessary for the New Birth. None can be taken in isolation for Salvation is a process not an event.

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

If believing alone saved one, this verse makes no sense and Jesus never wasted words.

1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Salvation is by grace through faith. But it is only obedient faith that is ever discussed in the Bible, not the mere mental assent and empty belief that is taught today.

Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Obedience to God is not "works." These verses are in your Bible for a reason. John 3:5 and Acts 2:38 are not verses we can choose to explain away by the misapplication of Romans 10:9. That's just another mistake of the Reformation along with the doctrine of unconditional eternal security.

[A.W. Bowman]

Larry - excellent post.

Here are three verses that I simply love, they each point to a different aspect of salvation:

Rev. 12:17, 14:12 & 22:14 (Note: There are alternate translations for this verse that state "wash their robes", vice "do his commandments").

Of course there are the more popular ones: John 14:15, 21, 24, 15:10; Heb 5:9, etc.

So now the question becomes, "What are the commandments of Christ that we are to obey?"I might just post a thread on this subject. It just might interest a few to discover what Jesus expects of His disciples. What do you think?

[A.W. Bowman]

Another interesting study: How many 'gospels' are there identified in the New Testament writings?

Answer: 12

Question: How do they relate to one another?

[larrylyates]

Larry - excellent post.

Here are three verses that I simply love, they each point to a different aspect of salvation:

Rev. 12:17, 14:12 & 22:14 (Note: There are alternate translations for this verse that state "wash their robes", vice "do his commandments").

Of course there are the more popular ones: John 14:15, 21, 24, 15:10; Heb 5:9, etc.

So now the question becomes, "What are the commandments of Christ that we are to obey?"I might just post a thread on this subject. It just might interest a few to discover what Jesus expects of His disciples. What do you think?

Excellent idea! it is time for the Sons of God to arise, and learn what it really means to be New Creation's. We have a long way to go in order ti be the manifested sons we are called to be.

[Aquila]

Larry - excellent post.

Here are three verses that I simply love, they each point to a different aspect of salvation:

Rev. 12:17, 14:12 & 22:14 (Note: There are alternate translations for this verse that state "wash their robes", vice "do his commandments").

Of course there are the more popular ones: John 14:15, 21, 24, 15:10; Heb 5:9, etc.

So now the question becomes, "What are the commandments of Christ that we are to obey?"I might just post a thread on this subject. It just might interest a few to discover what Jesus expects of His disciples. What do you think?

I believe that the born again Christian is called to obey the Law of Christ. The Law of Christ is summed up as follows:

1.) Love the LORD your God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength.
2.) Demonstrate your love for the LORD your God by loving your neighbor as yourself.

Beyond these two commandments, the rest is just circumstantial commentary.

Matthew 22:38-40
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Romans 13:9-10
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Galatians 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

James 2:8
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

The essence of biblical Christianity is love. Love for God and love for others. Everything else is dispensational commentary or cultural mores. In any action we must ask ourselves, "Is it loving?" If it isn't loving it will most likely be selfish or malicious. If something isn't loving it is sin.

[Lafon]

I believe that the born again Christian is called to obey the Law of Christ. The Law of Christ is summed up as follows:

1.) Love the LORD your God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength.
2.) Demonstrate your love for the LORD your God by loving your neighbor as yourself.

Beyond these two commandments, the rest is just circumstantial commentary.

Matthew 22:38-40
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Romans 13:9-10
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Galatians 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

James 2:8
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

The essence of biblical Christianity is love. Love for God and love for others. Everything else is dispensational commentary or cultural mores. In any action we must ask ourselves, "Is it loving?" If it isn't loving it will most likely be selfish or malicious. If something isn't loving it is sin.

:thumbsup

[A.W. Bowman]

Actually, Jesus gave over seventy general (universal) 'commands/instructions' that He expected to be followed (observed to do) by His disciples.

Even so, Aquila, you are right. Love is the foundational command. The rest of the commands, however, demonstrate how that love is expected by Jesus to be expressed, and can be summed up with, "... If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me."

How many of the 70 or so instructions can any of us list? How well do any of us understand them and actually "do" them? Or, in other words, how close do we come to being Christ-like in our daily walk? Whom do we obey, Jesus our our own ideas of what a godliness lifestyle should look like?

I submit that most of us (yes, that includes me also) give more mental assent to the concept of being a disciple of Christ than we do in being a true disciple of Christ. Why? Because most professing Christians have not been taught to obey The Master, most do not know what He said He wants us to do! But rather, we have been taught to obey men instead. In most churches I have visited I have found that the pastor gets more love, honor and respect than Jesus does. Yes, that is an indictment.

I recommend that more pastors, preachers and teachers get back to teaching the Bible for what it really says, and leave church dogma and personal agendas out of their sermons.

:gpagripes

[A.W. Bowman]

Here is an example of what I am alluding to:

SUPREME LOVE TO GOD

1. "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, soul, mind, and strength" Mark 12:30
2. "God, and Him only shalt thou serve" Matt. 4:10
3. "Worship the Father in spirit and in truth" John 4:23-24
4. "Call no man your father upon the Earth" Matt. 23:9
5. "Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God" Matt. 4:7
6. "Fear Him (God) which hath power to cast into hell" Luke 12:5
7. "All men should honor the Son" John 5:22-23

In the first instruction we have how we to love God. But, the real question is this: What does this verse actually mean and how does one ‘do’ it?

In number two, what is the acceptable ‘service’ that God requires, and how do you do it?

In number three, what does this mean and how does one accomplish such worship? The answer may be a little harder to come up with than first meets the eye.

Now, number four is really a hard one, for Greek thinkers. For example, Paul himself refers to himself as Timothy’s father in the faith. Or, does this mean that one is not to call their biological father, father? So, what does this verse really mean?

Next we have number five. How does one ‘tempt’ God? Might have to dig a little for this one.

What are the expected results of ‘fearing’ God?

In number seven we have a rather disquieting note. Why are we to honor the son rather than worshiping Him? Why did Jesus say this, and what was He expecting to see in return? Note: The only other time the phrase “honor God” is found in the bible is Judges 9:9, and honor me (God) in Isa 29:13; 43:20, so this is not a new concept.

Loving God is a verb, not a noun. It requires action on our part – what is it?

:grampa

[Aquila]

A.W. Bowman,

Many want a codified law that goes beyond love. It's human instinct. However, when we review the teachings of Jesus we must remember that He was born under the Law. And that on most occasions, He was answering questions relating to the Law to a specific audience. While answering questions relating to the Law or interpreting the Law Jesus often expanded upon the Law, bringing all under condemnation. For example...


Matthew 5:27-28
King James Version (KJV)
27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Notice, Jesus is interpreting the Law for the people... while the Law was still in effect. He's getting into the condition of the heart while under the Law. Also notice...

Matthew 5:21-22
King James Version (KJV)
21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Same thing. In both of these examples Jesus takes the Law that is currently in effect and expands upon it. The purpose wasn't entirely to inspire... it was to condemn. As Jesus spoke, any person who was honest with themselves would have realized how desperate and helpless they are before God. Who hasn't lusted? Who hasn't been angry with their brother without a real cause? The teachings of Jesus were the spiritual depths and realities of the Law of Moses. These teachings cornered the entire nation and placed them in absolute desperation, needing a Saviour.

So, as we evaluate what many assume are applicable laws of Jesus... we have to keep in mind the context and purpose of Christ's words.

Now, this doesn't mean that we may freely lust or be angry with people. However, the higher Law of Christ (Love) would ask... Is lusting loving? Is anger without a real reason loving? Is being envious and wanting your neighbor's sports car loving? Seeing that none of these things are loving, these acts are sin.

I remember a paper I read on the commandments of Jesus. Most are amazed when they realize how many of those commandments were intended for a Jewish audience under the Law. This isn't to say that all of Christ's teachings are not applicable. However, we must use discernment.

[Aquila]

Let's look at some of these:

1. "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, soul, mind, and strength" Mark 12:30 (Eternal Law of Love)
2. "God, and Him only shalt thou serve" Matt. 4:10 (Confrontation with Satan affirming Christ's loyalty to the Father)
3. "Worship the Father in spirit and in truth" John 4:23-24 (Prophecy of the New Covenant)
4. "Call no man your father upon the Earth" Matt. 23:9 (Relating to corrupt Pharisaical hierarchy, Paul was Timothy's father in the Gospel)
5. "Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God" Matt. 4:7 (Rebuke to Satan for tempting the very Son of God)
6. "Fear Him (God) which hath power to cast into hell" Luke 12:5 (Warning not to fear the Pharisaical powers that be)
7. "All men should honor the Son" John 5:22-23 (Admonition in light of prophecy)

We make it so difficult. When truly, it's so simplistic and universal. Love God. Love others. Love.

Out of the above listing, I walk away with numbers 1 and 7 as still being applicable. And we honor God through our love for Him and our love for others.

[Aquila]

What we run into is that every time I've seen this listing of commandments... in the end... everyone has a different list. lol

And when trials and temptations come our way... how do we remember all 70 some odd commandments? For example, I remember being asked if I wanted to have a sandwhich at work (they were having a cook out). I smiled and said, "No, thank you. I'm fasting." Later I read,

Matthew 6:17-19
English Standard Version (ESV)
17 But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, 18 that your fasting may not be seen by others but by your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

Oh no!!! I broke a commandment!!!

I just can't keep all these things straight in my head all the time. lol

[A.W. Bowman]

Yes! I also recommend the reading of all of Matthew chapters five through seven. This sermon provides the foundation for understanding the Law of God and the approach to implementing it.

"Many want a codified law that goes beyond love. It's human instinct. However, when we review the teachings of Jesus we must remember that He was born under the Law. And that on most occasions, He was answering questions relating to the Law to a specific audience. While answering questions relating to the Law or interpreting the Law Jesus often expanded upon the Law, bringing all under condemnation."

A most excellent observation!

Yet, of the seven commands that I listed above, given under the law, are there any that we can disregard "as not being applicable to us today"? The questions I added to each 'command' were given expressly given to assist in understanding both the commands themselves, and to address the very observation you made.

Side note: I indicated that there were over 70 universal commands given by Jesus, I omitted to to say that He gave over 145, but not all were universal.

[TGBTG]

Rom 13:9
For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

I am interested in the 70 (or 145) to be listed...

[A.W. Bowman]

I just can't keep all these things straight in my head all the time. lol

LOLOL Right On! The object is not to be made over in a day, but to work on just a few at a time - internalize, so as to create a new lifestyle, a new world view.

If teachers would just start teaching on these, and if folks would embrace the precepts, perhaps we would see some maturity among the saints - and even the teachers!

[Aquila]

You guys don't get it. If when we get down to where the rubber meets the road everyone has a slightly different list... we're on an arbitrary sea of subjective reasoning.

Some will have 70 commandments we have to remember, some will have 145. Some will draw from the Law of Moses, some won't. Some will strictly draw from Christ... some will draw from Christ and the teachings of the Apostles. It will be a chaotic mess proving that we are absolutely ignorant of what the Christian faith is truly about.

However, God IS love. Love is the very essence of His being. Therefore, the Law of Christ (love God and love others) exemplifies God's own nature more perfectly than any "law". A person can abide by a law... and not love. However, if a person loves, they will fulfill the spirit of the law.

Besides, law keeping isn't our standard. Jesus is. We are called to be fashioned into the image and likeness of Jesus... not the image and likeness of a one person and his take on how many laws to obey, not a pastor, not a church denomination with their standards, etc. Jesus is the standard... not the standard giver. We are to "image" Jesus to a lost world. We are to become so full of Jesus we become living extentions of Him, branches of the Vine.

It's all about loving... and our very identity becoming lost in... Jesus.

You see, to the legalist, my professing about my fasting was a violation of Matthew 6:17-19 and therefore, it was a sin. However, to the grace keeper, I meant no ill, malice, or harm. I was indeed being loving, kind, and gentle in declining food. Therefore, I did not sin. Now, if I was bragging and making a to do about how "spiritual" I was, it would have been sin.

Thus, the question is... does my lifestyle image Jesus? Do I display love towards God and others (fruit of the Spirit). It doesn't really matter how many little laws, rules, or commandments someone wishes to extrapolate from the Bible. The biggie is love. And interestingly enough, the flesh cries out for a law. It wants to fulfill a standard... to boast, even if one doesn't originally intend it that way. It's the nature of flesh.

The Sermon on the Mount interprets the Law of Moses to all the people gathered around Jesus (while yet still under the law). It gives great teachings, great precepts, kinda like case law from which to base a conclusion. But we are not bound by it. For example, if I have something against a brother and I wish to give a gift... I must set it by the altar and go reconcile with my brother. Frankly, I've never set my gift down in church or aside in house church to go make up with my brother. However, I do see the principle of making up with a brother before offering anything to God in the way of finances or service.

So... if someone were to ask me what a Christian was called to do... I'd answer... a Christian is called to become like Jesus, in actuality, a living extension of Jesus Himself. And we are to love God with all our being and show that love for God by loving others as ourselves. No holy days, dress codes, dietary codes, blah, blah, blah, blah. Now, we do approach our family traditions with love. Does it offend? We approach our dress with love. Does it offend? We approach what we eat with love. Does it offend? Love covers it all. And in putting love into practice... we properly display the fruit of the Spirit.

Oh, how great is our freedom in Jesus! Praise Him. For where the Spirit of the Lord is... there is liberty. We are liberated from laws and rules to do one thing... love.

[Aquila]

LOLOL Right On! The object is not to be made over in a day, but to work on just a few at a time - internalize, so as to create a new lifestyle, a new world view.

If teachers would just start teaching on these, and if folks would embrace the precepts, perhaps we would see some maturity among the saints - and even the teachers!

If if if if if. If teachers this... if teachers that. I disagree. If we'd but catch the deepest essence of what it means to "love"... we'd revolutionize the Christian faith. Frankly, we can't get to love while debating over who's list of rules is right. ;) Legalism is always the most subtle of traps.

[Aquila]

Rom 13:9
For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

I am interested in the 70 (or 145) to be listed...

:thumbsup

Amen.

Thou shalt love they neighbour as thyself. Case closed. Funny thing is... this is so simple... it's also the most difficult thing to do. Our carnal mind and human flesh wants to add to it... and that is only because we have failed to grasp what love truly is. lol If we knew what love obligated us to... we'd probably rather have a list of laws. It would be much much easier. lol

[Aquila]

The Law of Christ, the Law of Love... two commandments. Love God. Love others. That's the program. We just can't get that through our carnal reasoning that desires a list. lol

[A.W. Bowman]

TGBTG -

I will add them below, as an attachment. But be advised before hand - there a number of major tyhpeinges problems and a fe grameatical problems. In other words - it is unedited.

I had posted these on another forum as a daily offering. Hope you find them to be of some value.

[Aquila]

TGBTG -

I will add them below, as an attachment. But be advised before hand - there a number of major tyhpeinges problems and a fe grameatical problems. In other words - it is unedited.

I had posted these on another forum as a daily offering. Hope you find them to be of some value.

I'm just curious... what makes your list different from another brother's list? :confused:

[A.W. Bowman]

Try this.

Well,it seems like the word file will not attach! Hmmmm

Okay, the file is too long, so I'll have to (1) submit it in parts, and also change the format.

I can't seem to get the document split up enough to make the max file length. I will have to "play" with it a little and generate a series of smaller files. It might take a while, but I'll get it up by this evening.

Sorry for the delay!

[Aquila]

Hmmm... a list that can't be communicated? lol

Love.

That was easy. ;)

[A.W. Bowman]

Hmmm... a list that can't be communicated? lol

Love.

That was easy. ;)

Perhaps there is a message hidden in there somewhere? LOLOL

Wrong format and much too long of a file. /sigh/

[A.W. Bowman]

Okay, I am limited to 19.5 kb for a text file. That is less than one page. The file is 24 pages long.:foottap

I guess I will have to go to posting the list as a series on the forum. So I do not completely ruin this thread (having already damaged it - hijack), I'll start another thread on these boards.

Perhaps in the process I can clean up some of the tyepiings. No promises!

[A.W. Bowman]

The new thread is located here:

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?p=1241881#post1241881

I'll get started on it shortly.

[A.W. Bowman]

Okay - it's done! /mercy/