Chemical imbalance in brain' myth debunked

[Esaias]

http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pmed.0030318

http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.0020392

http://www.cchr.org/quick-facts/real-disease-vs-mental-disorder.html

http://www.academyanalyticarts.org/fores.htm

Just a few links to articles refuting the idea that mental disorders from ADHD to depression etc are caused by a 'chemical imbalance in the brain'.

[Dordrecht]

It's a spiritual thing.

[RandyWayne]

http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pmed.0030318

http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.0020392

http://www.cchr.org/quick-facts/real-disease-vs-mental-disorder.html

http://www.academyanalyticarts.org/fores.htm

Just a few links to articles refuting the idea that mental disorders from ADHD to depression etc are caused by a 'chemical imbalance in the brain'.

So what advice would YOU give to someone who suffers from extreme depression or has a loved one who is schizophrenic? Or how about Parkinson's? Or Alzheimer's?

[Dordrecht]

Jesus is still doing the Works of the Father!
He is still the healer.
There is no sickness that He cannot heal.
Supernatural miracles and healings are a fact of life.
They are even more prevalent today than during Bible times.
Why? Jesus said, "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me,
the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do,
because I go to My Father." John 14:12 and "But you shall receive power (miraculous power)
when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem,
and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."Acts 1:8

[bbyrd009]

gotta say "AMEN" there...
So what advice would YOU give to someone who suffers from extreme depression or has a loved one who is schizophrenic? Or how about Parkinson's? Or Alzheimer's?
"It's a spiritual thing."

"Face what you are running from, or
get comfy with the chemical lobotomy."

It may not be pleasant, sorry, but these afflictions you mention
are self-inflicted; I won't say "in every case," but Parkinson's and Alzheimer's are known as "brain diabetes." Of course, in these cases, the lobotomy is complete, more or less. I came very close to schizophrenia in my speed days--these are spirits that one makes a home for, I am convinced.

How do you help someone who is running from themselves?
Surely it is painful when it's a loved one,
but how do you save someone else?

Another uncomfortable truth is, whether the sufferer
can admit it or not, these become ways to keep the focus
where they want it (where we all want it, usually)--on themselves,
albeit in a negative way. Maybe now we can start a discussion
about what "witchcraft" really means? Note Matt's confession of late.

[Praxeas]

I read through some of the first link. It seems to mostly deal with childhood issues as ADHD

[RandyWayne]

I read through some of the first link. It seems to mostly deal with childhood issues as ADHD

I actually deal with a pretty severe case of ADHD, but have never taken a prescribed drug for it. Honestly, if I DID say there was a "drug" that helped it would be a vodka gimlet or margarita. Just a small amount of alcohol seems to do more to calm me down, and with far less side effects (and cheaper to boot!) then any strong mind altering drug designed specifically for what I have.

Having said that I always wondered why the largest % of kids with it all seem to live in trailer parks? (Being someone sarcastic in asking.)

Oh, and Parkinson's and Alzheimer's are largely genetic.

[Esaias]

So what advice would YOU give to someone who suffers from extreme depression or has a loved one who is schizophrenic? Or how about Parkinson's? Or Alzheimer's?

I am not a physician nor a pastor. So my advice would be for the individual to pray, to research things for themselves, to seek others who have been through what they are going through (especially those who have overcome those things), to take a more active role in their own recovery/coping/healing, and to be open minded.

Also that I would keep them in my prayers and that I would be available if for nothing else than to just listen to them if they needed to talk, vent, whatever.

As for Parkinson's and Alzheimer's, I believe those are not 'chemical imbalances' nor are they 'psychological' in origin, but have to do with actual cerebral damage/cortical deterioration, and there's probably not much 'treatment' available except to manage symptoms and have a caretaker. Even the bible references what we would call 'alzheimer's or senile dementia, if I am not mistaken, and it seems to be a symptom of the general corruption in the physical world which one day will be cured by the renewing of all things.

Schizophrenia is a different beast altogether, and I am no expert, but from what I have read there seems to be a lot of things that are diagnosed as 'schizophrenia', and then treated almost with a 'one size fits all approach' which often does more long term harm than good. There have been studies which have shown the drugs used to treat schizophrenia may be causing cerebral damage (actual, physical damage to the brain) which in turn exacerbates the problem the patient had in the first place. I don't have any answers, I just posted some links to articles for people to read and draw their own conclusions.

[Esaias]

I actually deal with a pretty severe case of ADHD, but have never taken a prescribed drug for it. Honestly, if I DID say there was a "drug" that helped it would be a vodka gimlet or margarita. Just a small amount of alcohol seems to do more to calm me down, and with far less side effects (and cheaper to boot!) then any strong mind altering drug designed specifically for what I have.

Having said that I always wondered why the largest % of kids with it all seem to live in trailer parks? (Being someone sarcastic in asking.)

Oh, and Parkinson's and Alzheimer's are largely genetic.

I have read several studies which indicate ADHD and similar cases of 'attention deficit/hyperactivity' disorders may be largely caused by diet, in particular, a high carbohydrate/sugar based diet (including corn syrup).

I DO believe that many cases of ADD or ADHD may just be cases where a child has little disciple at home or other family problems and a medical diagnosis with drugs are chosen as an easy way of dealing with the symptoms.

I any event, SSRI's and other mood altering drugs are way over prescribed, in my opinion.

[Esaias]

I read through some of the first link. It seems to mostly deal with childhood issues as ADHD

The others go into 'depression'.

There are many more articles on line (medical articles, not anti-psychiatry activist articles) which deal with more serious mental disorders and problems, which also seem to negate the 'medication treatment' approach so common these days.

[ILG]

Once, at a ladies retreat, I saw a woman "delivered" from her mental issues. She gave the speaker her bottle of meds, which the speaker held up for all to see and the speaker announced that the woman had been delivered and no longer needed her drugs. It made me shudder. If the woman had been delivered, great, but if not, the speaker is partly responsible for whatever outcome a woman with mental issues who gives away her meds might have.

[The Matt]

http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pmed.0030318

http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.0020392

http://www.cchr.org/quick-facts/real-disease-vs-mental-disorder.html

http://www.academyanalyticarts.org/fores.htm

Just a few links to articles refuting the idea that mental disorders from ADHD to depression etc are caused by a 'chemical imbalance in the brain'.

Wow. Simply amazing. You know, I feel so much better now. I realize, everything that's been wrong with me for the last 25 years, all the depression, all the hurt, the inability to cope with things like normal people can, the crushing anxiety, the racing thoughts, the near death experiences, the worry my loved ones have had for me, the physical manifestations of mental disorder in my body....It in fact, never existed. It's completely been debunked by internet articles! Wow, all the science was just...propaganda! Mythology! Of the same level as Zeus, 9/11, and Hitler's death! It's ALL BEEN IN MY HEAD! This is awesome, I guess tomorrow I can just begin my completely normal life, with no problems. Why, maybe I'll even start a new career. I'm thinking....doctor. No, nuclear physicist. A nuclear physicist who performs surgery. Thank you so much for these articles. They truly changed my life! It just blows my mind. The years I completely WASTED by allowing myself to be treated by various medications for chemical disorders that went on to this very day...and all I had to do was just decide there was nothing wrong with my mind. Wow.

[Esaias]

Wow. Simply amazing. You know, I feel so much better now. I realize, everything that's been wrong with me for the last 25 years, all the depression, all the hurt, the inability to cope with things like normal people can, the crushing anxiety, the racing thoughts, the near death experiences, the worry my loved ones have had for me, the physical manifestations of mental disorder in my body....It in fact, never existed. It's completely been debunked by internet articles! Wow, all the science was just...propaganda! Mythology! Of the same level as Zeus, 9/11, and Hitler's death! It's ALL BEEN IN MY HEAD! This is awesome, I guess tomorrow I can just begin my completely normal life, with no problems. Why, maybe I'll even start a new career. I'm thinking....doctor. No, nuclear physicist. A nuclear physicist who performs surgery. Thank you so much for these articles. They truly changed my life! It just blows my mind. The years I completely WASTED by allowing myself to be treated by various medications for chemical disorders that went on to this very day...and all I had to do was just decide there was nothing wrong with my mind. Wow.

The articles do not suggest that depression or other issues aren't real, just that they are not likely to be caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain.

'Just deciding there is nothing wrong' doesn't solve anything and never did. And neither I, nor any poster here, nor the authors of the articles I linked to, suggest any such thing.

[Esaias]

Once, at a ladies retreat, I saw a woman "delivered" from her mental issues. She gave the speaker her bottle of meds, which the speaker held up for all to see and the speaker announced that the woman had been delivered and no longer needed her drugs. It made me shudder. If the woman had been delivered, great, but if not, the speaker is partly responsible for whatever outcome a woman with mental issues who gives away her meds might have.

I have seen people delivered. I have also seen people testify to being delivered and then fall right back into their original condition. Sometimes we mistake zeal for faith. I have myself on occasion.

[The Matt]

I have seen people delivered. I have also seen people testify to being delivered and then fall right back into their original condition. Sometimes we mistake zeal for faith. I have myself on occasion.

You see amazing things that happened to wonderful people with plenty of faith, who didn't really deserve it being sinners, but received it anyway. I see an angry God who has cursed me for being a rotten person, with promises that I can't understand or see as graspable, an impossible standard or goal set for only people much stronger, goodlier, and charitable than me. Subject to change of course. Tomorrow I may see the light. Today, it's a Lot got the bad end of the deal sort of day.

[The Matt]

But then again maybe putting a prayer cloth in my wallet and having some vegetable oil rubbed on my head will make things much more better.

[RandyWayne]

But then again maybe putting a prayer cloth in my wallet and having some vegetable oil rubbed on my head will make things much more better.

Naw, you just need a good woman with long uncut hair.

[RandyWayne]

The articles do not suggest that depression or other issues aren't real, just that they are not likely to be caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain.

'Just deciding there is nothing wrong' doesn't solve anything and never did. And neither I, nor any poster here, nor the authors of the articles I linked to, suggest any such thing.

I have no doubt that what are commonly referred to as "chemical imbalances" (or more likely -bad wiring of the brain) are real and occur in every single person, only the degree to which it happens being the only difference. Deciding how to FIX these imbalances and bad wiring's is where it gets really dicey. In some ways trying to cure mental issues with drugs is still at the stage of "blood letting" from the middle ages. Granted scientists are developing better maps of the mind and know, in general terms, where specific things happen, but it is still like trying to fix a computer program containing millions and millions of lines of code and not being able to look at more than a single screen full of them at a time. You can try to fix some code but will have NO IDEA what it will mess up in other areas of the program.

[ILG]

You see amazing things that happened to wonderful people with plenty of faith, who didn't really deserve it being sinners, but received it anyway. I see an angry God who has cursed me for being a rotten person, with promises that I can't understand or see as graspable, an impossible standard or goal set for only people much stronger, goodlier, and charitable than me. Subject to change of course. Tomorrow I may see the light. Today, it's a Lot got the bad end of the deal sort of day.

Hey, Matt, I understand your anger. Go ahead and be ticked. I don't believe that God has cursed you. I don't understand the injustice in the world either. But don't let anyone tell you you can't be mad about it. Stay the course though and don't do anything regrettable. When you are in that deep hole and people keep on shoveling the dirt onto your head, get mad and stomp your feet. One day, you could step out from all the dirt pressed underneath those feet.

[Esaias]

I have no doubt that what are commonly referred to as "chemical imbalances" (or more likely -bad wiring of the brain) are real and occur in every single person, only the degree to which it happens being the only difference. Deciding how to FIX these imbalances and bad wiring's is where it gets really dicey. In some ways trying to cure mental issues with drugs is still at the stage of "blood letting" from the middle ages. Granted scientists are developing better maps of the mind and know, in general terms, where specific things happen, but it is still like trying to fix a computer program containing millions and millions of lines of code and not being able to look at more than a single screen full of them at a time. You can try to fix some code but will have NO IDEA what it will mess up in other areas of the program.

I prefer trepanning to leeches, my self.

[The Matt]

Naw, you just need a good woman with long uncut hair.

Yeah. A prayer warrior. One who spends the day interceding for lost souls. A prophetess. A great and noble woman, an enriching, caring woman. A goodly woman who loves God before all. Possesses most of the Gifts of the spirit. An evangelizer. She speaks at women's conferences. Because of her, thousands, maybe even more, accepted Christ into their hearts. Then she comes home one night, after baptizing three people, and watching them receive the wonderful gift of the Holy Ghost, she sits down, starts thinking, and realizes that in her 23 years of living for the Lord, she's focused completely on the spiritual. She wonders how much she has missed of the physical world. So, she decides. "Well, let me just...cut the tips of my hair. You know, just to grow it out a little longer. After all, split ends are so unhealthy." Three years later, I'm out of church, and as I'm taking a hit off my hash pipe, I look out the window, and I see my wife jumping into a car with someone. He hands her a crack rock, and they drive away. Hmmph. I feel like we made a mistake somewhere. Oh well. *puff puff puff*

[RandyWayne]

You see amazing things that happened to wonderful people with plenty of faith, who didn't really deserve it being sinners, but received it anyway. I see an angry God who has cursed me for being a rotten person, with promises that I can't understand or see as graspable, an impossible standard or goal set for only people much stronger, goodlier, and charitable than me. Subject to change of course. Tomorrow I may see the light. Today, it's a Lot got the bad end of the deal sort of day.

I have a somewhat similar outlook due to constant depression (except I can honestly look and see where God has done some pretty amazing miracles in my life).

I have to admit that life does feel like this sometimes:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_tONz1gBpS3c/R-TnKgg8gKI/AAAAAAAAAIo/8I6cnyt_c2U/s320/donkey.gif

There is this feeling that no matter how long I last or when I give up completely I will find that things would have been all better had I hung on just one more day. That "day" always being the day AFTER I give up. But I just hang on the words of Rocky Balboa when he told his son "...by going that one extra round when you don't think you can, well, that's a lot like life.".

[Esaias]

Yeah. A prayer warrior. One who spends the day interceding for lost souls. A prophetess. A great and noble woman, an enriching, caring woman. A goodly woman who loves God before all. Possesses most of the Gifts of the spirit. An evangelizer. She speaks at women's conferences. Because of her, thousands, maybe even more, accepted Christ into their hearts. Then she comes home one night, after baptizing three people, and watching them receive the wonderful gift of the Holy Ghost, she sits down, starts thinking, and realizes that in her 23 years of living for the Lord, she's focused completely on the spiritual. She wonders how much she has missed of the physical world. So, she decides. "Well, let me just...cut the tips of my hair. You know, just to grow it out a little longer. After all, split ends are so unhealthy." Three years later, I'm out of church, and as I'm taking a hit off my hash pipe, I look out the window, and I see my wife jumping into a car with someone. He hands her a crack rock, and they drive away. Hmmph. I feel like we made a mistake somewhere. Oh well. *puff puff puff*

Hmmm... should I?

Nah, better not!

[RandyWayne]

Yeah. A prayer warrior. One who spends the day interceding for lost souls. A prophetess. A great and noble woman, an enriching, caring woman. A goodly woman who loves God before all. Possesses most of the Gifts of the spirit. An evangelizer. She speaks at women's conferences. Because of her, thousands, maybe even more, accepted Christ into their hearts. Then she comes home one night, after baptizing three people, and watching them receive the wonderful gift of the Holy Ghost, she sits down, starts thinking, and realizes that in her 23 years of living for the Lord, she's focused completely on the spiritual. She wonders how much she has missed of the physical world. So, she decides. "Well, let me just...cut the tips of my hair. You know, just to grow it out a little longer. After all, split ends are so unhealthy." Three years later, I'm out of church, and as I'm taking a hit off my hash pipe, I look out the window, and I see my wife jumping into a car with someone. He hands her a crack rock, and they drive away. Hmmph. I feel like we made a mistake somewhere. Oh well. *puff puff puff*

"Don't let your wife jump into a car with someone who is smoking crack. Get DirecTV!"

[The Matt]

"Don't let your wife jump into a car with someone who is smoking crack. Get DirecTV!"

She kinda let herself go. It wasn't too hard for me to let her go. Really, all I wanted her for was her long uncut hair. Remember?

[RandyWayne]

She kinda let herself go. It wasn't too hard for me to let her go. Really, all I wanted her for was her long uncut hair. Remember?

Well, it IS the ultimate talisman. If she would indeed cut it, I would say "good riddance you Jezebel!".

[The Matt]

Well, it IS the ultimate talisman. If she would indeed cut it, I would say "good riddance you Jezebel!".

This was the best I could do? Were you trying to bring me up? Jeez.

[AreYouReady?]

Esaias, your four articles did not "debunk" anything.

The only thing I've read out of those articles, save the ADHD is about the neurotransmitters, serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine etc.

These are the transmitters that the pharmaceutical companies focus on when developing and peddling their psychotropic drugs.

Apparently...the American Medical Association does not totally agree on the views of the writers of these articles. I tend to agree with them on the neurotransmitter subject ...to an extent. Sometimes desperate measures are needed to help somebody immediately or in short order...even if it is a pill.

I agree that people who are prescribed Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor drugs (SSRI) most likely do not have a shortage of serotonin, as said so by Dr. Sherry A. Rogers who wrote many books about modern medicine. When these medications first came out, it was recommended that they be given for only a short period of time...6-9 months so that people can work out their problems and come to terms with emotional trauma. Now the doctors are telling patients that they may be on these drugs for life??? What is wrong with this picture eh? Lots of things of which is too numerous to be discussed in this post.

However, I disagree with the premise that there are NO chemical imbalances in the brain. Your articles only touch on the subject. They also do not explain why people today are so fragmented after severe trauma. The articles likewise do not speculate or give any solutions for this emotional medical nightmare.

Your articles do not explain why the body reacts in certain ways to stress causing extreme anxiety attacks, lethargy, mental confusion, apathy and manic episodes. The brain is not separate from the body. If the body lacks vitamins, minerals, and other substances that a good diet replenishes the body with, the brain will likewise suffer.

We are living in an age where they dump toxic fluoride in the drinking water, chlorine, trihalomethane as well many other chemicals and say it is safe to drink.

We are given drugs that stop the liver from producing cholesterol, but our brain and body cells need cholesterol to mend cells and to produce new cells. It is the way our meat is processed (how they feed the cattle) that causes cholesterol build up in our arteries.

Everybody knows, or should know that substances like monosodium glutamate, (MSG) aspartame, preservatives creates chemical imbalances in the body. It tricks your body's senses when to trigger hunger so that you can eat.

**In fact, MSG (which is often disguised by names like "hydrolyzed vegetable protein" or "HVP", "yeast extract" or "autolyzed proteins") is, like aspartame, a member of the group of chemicals known as "excitotoxins" (the clue is in the name!). These toxic compounds are known to interfere with brain chemistry and have been implicated in many neurological diseases, such as brain cancers, MS, fibromyalgia, depression and hyperactivity (ADHD). In fact, they overexcite brain cells to the point of cell damage and even cell death.***

http://www.natural-health-information-centre.com/monosodium-glutamate.html

Some of the effects of aspartame...found in many diet drinks and foods:

In 1997 there was an increase in aspartame users reporting severe toxicity reactions and damage such as seizures, eye damage and vision loss, confusion, severe migraines, tremors, depression, anxiety attacks, insomnia, etc. In the same years, Ralph Walton, MD, Chairman, The Center for Behavioral Medicine showed that the only studies which didn't find problems with aspartame where those funded by the manufacturer (Monsanto). Given the agreement amongst independent scientists about the toxicity of aspartame, the only question was whether the formaldehyde exposure from aspartame caused the toxicity. That question has now been largely answered because of research in the late 1990s.

The following facts shown by recent scientific research:

Aspartame (nutrasweet) breaks down into methanol (wood alcohol).

Methanol quickly converts to formadehyde in the body.

Formaldehyde causes gradual and eventually severe damage to the neurological system, immune system and causes permanent genetic damage at extremely low doses.

Methanol from alcoholic beverages and from fruit and juices does not convert to formaldehyde and cause damage because there are protective chemicals in these traditionally ingested beverages.

The most recent independent research in Europe demonstrates that ingestion of small amounts of aspartame leads to the accumulation of significant levels of formaldehyde (bound to protein) in organs (liver, kidneys, brain) and tissues.

Excitotoxic amino acids such as the one which is immediately released from aspartame likely increases the damage caused by the formaldehyde.

http://www.holisticmed.com/aspartame/embalm.html

Nobody can say that the brain and mental behavior is not caused by chemical imbalances. It may not be caused by neurotransmitter imbalances in all cases. They may not be able to prove it through blood tests or MRI scans or by any other means and they cannot explain the epidemic of human bodies going awry, but I feel sure that somebody...somewhere knows why there is so much anxiety, so much depression, so many children unable to focus. You cannot shoot kids up with vaccines that contain contaminants such as mercury (thimerisol) and formaldehyde and expect them to function like humanity did for milleniums.

Information about Diet Coke on the web:
Health Concern 1. Caffeine

Worry about caffeine in diet sodas revolves around it's addictive effects on the brain, as well as the kidneys. Caffeine has diuretic properties, and is a dehydrating agent - one reason, say health critics, why a person may drink so many cans of soda every day without ever being satisfied. Health critics also believe that high-caffeine diet-beverages, like Diet Coke can lead to a gradual gain in weight from overeating as a result of confusion of thirst and hunger sensations.

Health Concern 2. Artificial Sweeteners

Health critics of diet drinks, such as Diet Coke, state that artificial sweeteners cause the brain to react to sweet taste (cephalic phase response) by preparing the liver to receive a new supply of sugar. And if no sugar appears, the liver signals an urge to eat.

http://www.diet-i.com/diet-coke.htm

I would say this is a good example of chemicals causing the body to become imbalanced. It is a chemical that tricks the liver into sending signals to eat more. This causes obesity.

This is just a small example of what people are ignorantly enduring because they expect our food supply to be clean, but it is not.

If people will try to eat a whole food diet, lay off foods with MSG, aspartame and a host of preservative chemicals in them, they just might see some improvement.

Those articles are only half-truths. They say nothing about what they all know or should know about the enzymes, vitamins and minerals the body is needing to function but is not getting from our modern food supply.

The FDA oks artificial lemon aid drinks with aspartame or loads of sugar.

Why not buy a bag of lemons and squeeze the juice and add natural sweeteners like honey or stevia? You get the benefits of citrus that prevents and heals scurvy and you get the herbal benefits of stevia.

But for researchers to say that a chemical imbalance in the brain is a myth is to me ...gross intellectual dishonesty and neglect.

[KeptByTheWord]

That is a lot of good information you've shared AYR! We have begun to change and modify our diet and watch the things we eat, and we haven't been to the doctor in several years. There is no getting away from the things that are in the air we breathe, water we drink and even the soil we grow our food in from our garden, sadly. But at least we can start by watching what obvious ingredients our food have in them that are harmful to our bodies.

You mentioned in another thread about writing a book... did you ever publish the book?

[llambert]

AYR, thanks for that wonderful refply.

I know of people who were on heavy psychotropic medications and through Christian counseling, repentance and prayers of deliverance they were able to get off of all the meds. There is one woman I know of who was told that she would have to be on chemical imbalance meds for the rest of her life. I will reach out to the people who know her and get her testimony.

I know of a Christian counselor (who has no secular or formal counseling credentials). She said that she had been able to work with 2 or 3 persons and with God's help they were able to get off all meds, but that she was not successful with most. Her belief as reported to me was that the people she was unsuccessful with were sold out to the system of psychology and totally convinced that what their psychology workers had told them about themselves and their conditions. She also said that when she was working with one person in counseling, the person's psychotherapist sent with the person a written document that he was relinquishing all responsibilities for the person (just in case the person came off his meds too soon and flipped out and did harm, the psychotherapist didn't want to be held liable).

I think that those of us who call on the name of Jesus and have the power of his spiritual gifts should be praying for persons who are prone to mental illnesses and addictions. Many of these people are getting gov't funds because of their diagnoses and the thought of them getting delivered can be frightening to them because it means that they will lose their benefits, their publically funded housing, their food subsidies, etc and that they will be called to walk on faith, stand up and grow up and for many, the idea of that can be extremely frightening- even terrifying.

[bbyrd009]

My experience with hormones tells me that
one can def have a chemical imbalance;
and following AYR's advice has helped a lot, imo.

For a depressive, $ says you are deficient in
both Omega 3 and vitamin D (and prolly most
of the B's), and a serum test will confirm this.
I credit these two alone with lifting most of my depression,
and if a shot of "5 hour energy" (a horrible way to get B's,
but an easy way to check) lifts ones depression significantly,
there you go. I maintain that these are spiritual problems,
as I was led to these, and AYR's, remedies. Vitamin D hit me
like a B12 shot. Your body uses Omega 3 (and cholesterol)
to make every cell wall. In their absence, it will use whatever
hydrogenated yack you are consuming, resulting in poor
permeability, reduced oxygenation, and poor mitochondrial
output-a recipe for depression. Add the emotional roller coaster
of smoking dope, and I'm surprised you're still alive.

Don't really know much about Parkinson's or Alzheimer's,
but have read that in A's case, it is brain oxidation,
another dietary indicator. Personally, I am convinced that
a Safeway diet was killing me. You want to get high?
Try "Greens Today."

[ILG]

Very good, AYR!

[KeptByTheWord]

My experience with hormones tells me that
one can def have a chemical imbalance;
and following AYR's advice has helped a lot, imo.

For a depressive, $ says you are deficient in
both Omega 3 and vitamin D (and prolly most
of the B's), and a serum test will confirm this.
I credit these two alone with lifting most of my depression,
and if a shot of "5 hour energy" (a horrible way to get B's,
but an easy way to check) lifts ones depression significantly,
there you go. I maintain that these are spiritual problems,
as I was led to these, and AYR's, remedies. Vitamin D hit me
like a B12 shot. Your body uses Omega 3 (and cholesterol)
to make every cell wall. In their absence, it will use whatever
hydrogenated yack you are consuming, resulting in poor
permeability, reduced oxygenation, and poor mitochondrial
output-a recipe for depression. Add the emotional roller coaster
of smoking dope, and I'm surprised you're still alive.

Don't really know much about Parkinson's or Alzheimer's,
but have read that in A's case, it is brain oxidation,
another dietary indicator. Personally, I am convinced that
a Safeway diet was killing me. You want to get high?
Try "Greens Today."

So you would recommend "Greens Today" as a nutritional supplement?

[bbyrd009]

I just picked one that had worked for me; prolly any whole food vitamin
would provide benefits. "Greens Today" is not cheap; at half-dose it is $20
a week--but it will make one pretty bullet-proof. "Original Formula" tastes like low tide and dead cat...start with "Joint Formula," a bit more palatable.

I returned to mention evacuating, which the "greens" def helped.
If you aren't "going" at least 3 times a day, you are def "chemically imbalancing"
yourself with toxins. I'm back to about 5 times a day now.
I believe that it is physically impossible to be "chronically depressed"
going 5 times a day, and serum test indicating proper levels of O-3 and Vit D.

[bbyrd009]

Ok and for the record, I would recommend
eating a balanced diet to get what the
Organic Frog (Greens Today) would provide...
then reality intrudes, and you go get some greens today.

I'm not currently supplementing, but I had to move
to an organic farm to accomplish this, and will prolly
supplement in the winter.

[ILG]

These are the least expensive greens I could find.

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/SWR009/ItemDetail

I have used these for a few years. Most of the suggestions made in this forum I have used myself to get over PTSD and adrenal fatigue. These greens taste okay if mixed with juice.

[bbyrd009]

Awesome, I'll have to check them out. "GT" is 72
different plants (you haven't had 72 different plants in your whole life),
but they are proud of it...and I'd recommend one ingest the first can of it
full strength.

For me, it came down to priorities;
$20 a day for (hash), or $20 a week
to cure a 20 year suicidal depression.

...this would all be after taking AYR's advice, which I
put under "stop ingesting poisons."
Do you know that stevia was, until quite recently,
illegal in the US? Hmm; who are you
gonna vote for? Lol

[bbyrd009]

^

[bbyrd009]

http://www.motherjones.com/tom-philpott/2012/08/fda-spying-on-scientists

A quick look at where your tax dollars go in the area of policing
chemical imbalances. Lol.

[Esaias]

Esaias, your four articles did not "debunk" anything.

The only thing I've read out of those articles, save the ADHD is about the neurotransmitters, serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine etc.

Which is precisely the point of the articles - there is no such thing as a scientifically demonstrated 'chemical imbalance in the brain'. They debunk that idea - an idea pushed by the pharmaceutical industry

These are the transmitters that the pharmaceutical companies focus on when developing and peddling their psychotropic drugs.

Again, that was the whole point of the articles I linked to. Big Pharma and the psychobabble industry promote an erroneous view of mental disorders, by claiming they are caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain requiring pharmacological treatment with xanax, paxil, ritalin, prozac, etc.

Apparently...the American Medical Association does not totally agree on the views of the writers of these articles.

The AMA supports Obamacare. Nothing more need be said about them, imo. But in case anyone else holds the AMA in esteem, check this out -

http://www.medibid.com/blog/2011/10/physicians-have-spoken-and-the-american-medical-association-ama-represents-their-interests-no-longer/

In a recent survey of physicians conducted by the Atlanta-based physician recruitment firm Jackson & Coker, doctors believe that the AMA no longer represents their views. A whopping 77 percent of physicians reject that premise that the AMA currently reflects their profession.


I agree that people who are prescribed Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor drugs (SSRI) most likely do not have a shortage of serotonin, as said so by Dr. Sherry A. Rogers who wrote many books about modern medicine. When these medications first came out, it was recommended that they be given for only a short period of time...6-9 months so that people can work out their problems and come to terms with emotional trauma. Now the doctors are telling patients that they may be on these drugs for life??? What is wrong with this picture eh? Lots of things of which is too numerous to be discussed in this post.

Again, that is precisely the point of the articles I linked to. Not sure why you said the articles 'debunk nothing'.

However, I disagree with the premise that there are NO chemical imbalances in the brain. Your articles only touch on the subject.

Not quite. Here's a quote from one of the articles:

"No experiment has ever show(n) that anyone has an "imbalance" of any neurotransmitters or any other brain chemicls. Nor could any conceivable experiment demonstrate the existence of a "chemical imbalance," simply because no one, least of all the biopsychiatrists, has the slightest idea what a proper and healthy chemical "balance" would look like. ... Do the varieties of consciousness called mental illnesses have a biochemical substrate? Of course they do, but, as noted above, this is only because every kind of mental state has such a substrate. "

Here's another :

"“No biochemical, neurological, or genetic markers have been found for Attention Deficit Disorder, Oppositional Defiant Disorder, Depression, Schizophrenia, anxiety, compulsive alcohol and drug abuse, overeating, gambling or any other so-called mental illness, disease, or disorder.” —Bruce Levine, Ph.D., psychologist and author of Commonsense Rebellion"

Simply put, no such thing as an 'imbalance in the brain' can be scientifically posited as a cause of any mental disorder, because a)no such imbalance has ever been observed, and b)nobody can say what BALANCE would actually look like.


They also do not explain why people today are so fragmented after severe trauma. The articles likewise do not speculate or give any solutions for this emotional medical nightmare.

That was not the purpose(s) of the articles, so naturally they would not focus on such things.

(cont.)

[Esaias]

Your articles do not explain why the body reacts in certain ways to stress causing extreme anxiety attacks, lethargy, mental confusion, apathy and manic episodes. The brain is not separate from the body. If the body lacks vitamins, minerals, and other substances that a good diet replenishes the body with, the brain will likewise suffer.

The articles were not addressing those points. they did not set out to address those points. They are articles dealing simply with the claim that mental disorders are caused by 'chemical imbalances in the brain', and they deal with that subject alone - except for one of the articles, which springboards from there into an ethical discussion regarding the federal drug policy and medical pharma policies in general.

We are living in an age where they dump toxic fluoride in the drinking water, chlorine, trihalomethane as well many other chemicals and say it is safe to drink.

We are given drugs that stop the liver from producing cholesterol, but our brain and body cells need cholesterol to mend cells and to produce new cells. It is the way our meat is processed (how they feed the cattle) that causes cholesterol build up in our arteries.

Everybody knows, or should know that substances like monosodium glutamate, (MSG) aspartame, preservatives creates chemical imbalances in the body. It tricks your body's senses when to trigger hunger so that you can eat.

**In fact, MSG (which is often disguised by names like "hydrolyzed vegetable protein" or "HVP", "yeast extract" or "autolyzed proteins") is, like aspartame, a member of the group of chemicals known as "excitotoxins" (the clue is in the name!). These toxic compounds are known to interfere with brain chemistry and have been implicated in many neurological diseases, such as brain cancers, MS, fibromyalgia, depression and hyperactivity (ADHD). In fact, they overexcite brain cells to the point of cell damage and even cell death.***

http://www.natural-health-information-centre.com/monosodium-glutamate.html

Some of the effects of aspartame...found in many diet drinks and foods:

In 1997 there was an increase in aspartame users reporting severe toxicity reactions and damage such as seizures, eye damage and vision loss, confusion, severe migraines, tremors, depression, anxiety attacks, insomnia, etc. In the same years, Ralph Walton, MD, Chairman, The Center for Behavioral Medicine showed that the only studies which didn't find problems with aspartame where those funded by the manufacturer (Monsanto). Given the agreement amongst independent scientists about the toxicity of aspartame, the only question was whether the formaldehyde exposure from aspartame caused the toxicity. That question has now been largely answered because of research in the late 1990s.

The following facts shown by recent scientific research:

Aspartame (nutrasweet) breaks down into methanol (wood alcohol).

Methanol quickly converts to formadehyde in the body.

Formaldehyde causes gradual and eventually severe damage to the neurological system, immune system and causes permanent genetic damage at extremely low doses.

Methanol from alcoholic beverages and from fruit and juices does not convert to formaldehyde and cause damage because there are protective chemicals in these traditionally ingested beverages.

The most recent independent research in Europe demonstrates that ingestion of small amounts of aspartame leads to the accumulation of significant levels of formaldehyde (bound to protein) in organs (liver, kidneys, brain) and tissues.

Excitotoxic amino acids such as the one which is immediately released from aspartame likely increases the damage caused by the formaldehyde.

http://www.holisticmed.com/aspartame/embalm.html



I agree with all of that, have known most of it for years, and do not see how that has any bearing on whether or not mental disorders ARE or ARE NOT cause dby 'chemical imbalances in the brain'. All of what you just said is true, and certainly has bearing on mental health in general, but the fact that nutrition has a major impact on mental and physical health does not refute the notion that mental disorders are NOT caused a mythological chemical imbalance in the brain.

:nod



Nobody can say that the brain and mental behavior is not caused by chemical imbalances. It may not be caused by neurotransmitter imbalances in all cases. They may not be able to prove it through blood tests or MRI scans or by any other means and they cannot explain the epidemic of human bodies going awry, but I feel sure that somebody...somewhere knows why there is so much anxiety, so much depression, so many children unable to focus. You cannot shoot kids up with vaccines that contain contaminants such as mercury (thimerisol) and formaldehyde and expect them to function like humanity did for milleniums.

The articles say quite seriously that there are NO CHEMICAL IMBALANCES in the brain, while quite clearly affirming that ALL MENTAL STATES ARE BIOCHEMICAL. The presence of FOREIGN CHEMICALS in the human system, which causes undesirable effects on mental and physical health (which are intertwined), does not equate to 'mental disorders are caused by chemical imbalances in the brain.' A diet full of aspartame and glucose and corn syrup does not equate to a chemical imbalance in the brain, ie unbalanced levels of neurotransmitters. At least not that I am aware of. If you know of a study that has shown that such dietary additives result in measurable decreases in neurotransmitters that in turn can be shown to directly affect mood and mental health, then I would like to see it.


I would say this is a good example of chemicals causing the body to become imbalanced. It is a chemical that tricks the liver into sending signals to eat more. This causes obesity.

Adding chemicals to your body, causing the body to react in negative or unhealthy ways, is not the same as 'mental disorders are caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain'. I understand what you are saying, but I think you misunderstand (somewhat) the premises of the articles I linked.

Also, I would say being poisoned is not a 'chemical imbalance', it is called POISONING!



If people will try to eat a whole food diet, lay off foods with MSG, aspartame and a host of preservative chemicals in them, they just might see some improvement.

Yes, they would.

Those articles are only half-truths. They say nothing about what they all know or should know about the enzymes, vitamins and minerals the body is needing to function but is not getting from our modern food supply.

Nonsense. Your post doesn't say anything about how prayer and holiness can (Biblically) lead to greater health but that doesn't mean your post is 'only a half-truth'. Again, you are wanting them to talk about things outside the scope of their intended purpose.



But for researchers to say that a chemical imbalance in the brain is a myth is to me ...gross intellectual dishonesty and neglect.


Pshaw! Researchers say that a chemical imbalance in the brain is a myth precisly because IT IS A MYTH, an unproven, unscientific, UNTRUTH. And the articles demonstrate that quite clearly.

I think you are mixing definitions here, what you call 'chemical imbalance' would probably more rightly be called POISONING.

Besides, we all know (everyone knows) that hormonal IMBALANCE can definitely affect mental state.

But that is not a 'chemical imbalance in the brain' that needs treatment with SSRI's and other psychotropic drugs.

[Esaias]

By the way, I think in any discussion of sickness etc we should remember the following:

And the LORD will take away from thee all sickness, and will put none of the evil diseases of Egypt, which thou knowest, upon thee; but will lay them upon all them that hate thee. - Deut 7:15

It seems that perhaps there may be correlation between America's health status and her relationship with God. As the nation turns further from God, sickness increases. This is, of course, speaking in general, and not in regard to any specific person in particular. National blessings and curses are general by their nature.

[AreYouReady?]

The articles were not addressing those points. they did not set out to address those points. They are articles dealing simply with the claim that mental disorders are caused by 'chemical imbalances in the brain', and they deal with that subject alone - except for one of the articles, which springboards from there into an ethical discussion regarding the federal drug policy and medical pharma policies in general.

Then IMO the subject is not truly debunked. It is debunked only when all sides are addressed.



I agree with all of that, have known most of it for years, and do not see how that has any bearing on whether or not mental disorders ARE or ARE NOT cause dby 'chemical imbalances in the brain'. All of what you just said is true, and certainly has bearing on mental health in general, but the fact that nutrition has a major impact on mental and physical health does not refute the notion that mental disorders are NOT caused a mythological chemical imbalance in the brain.

:nod

You and I both agree on much of this issue, but...there are many people out there who have not studied this out. They are like I was....having a belief and acceptance of what our "trusted" physician tells us. Not saying our "trusted" physician is deliberately lying to us...they rely on the AMA, Big Pharma and their representatives to tell them the truth about medications.



The articles say quite seriously that there are NO CHEMICAL IMBALANCES in the brain, while quite clearly affirming that ALL MENTAL STATES ARE BIOCHEMICAL. The presence of FOREIGN CHEMICALS in the human system, which causes undesirable effects on mental and physical health (which are intertwined), does not equate to 'mental disorders are caused by chemical imbalances in the brain.' A diet full of aspartame and glucose and corn syrup does not equate to a chemical imbalance in the brain, ie unbalanced levels of neurotransmitters. At least not that I am aware of. If you know of a study that has shown that such dietary additives result in measurable decreases in neurotransmitters that in turn can be shown to directly affect mood and mental health, then I would like to see it.

Here is a simple website that touches on 'artificial substances' and how they affect the brain. I still may not be understanding just what you are getting at so feel free to let me know if this doesn't provide an answer. I am trying to keep it simple because it is a complex problem that many of us find ourselves enveloped in.

http://www.nupathways.com/on-the-road-to-recovery-hellip-what-are-my-options

Aspartame, MSG, HFCS and other chemicals are only a short list of examples. Foreign chemicals actually displace some normal brain chemicals and fills that space in the brain cells. I did an extensive study on my own about chemicals, proteins, amino acids and others on how they affect the brain. It was quite revealing. Amino acids affect our brains more than we think. Some are relaxers while some are excitos. Our brain has a delicate balance.

However, I could not possibly post much of this on this subject thoroughly and effectively in this forum. It took years of study and nobody would read the very long post anyway. I will say this...There is one source I've read in a book written by Eric R. Braverman, M.D. entitled 'The Healing Nutrients Within'. He explains what all the amino acids and other nutrients provide for a healthy body that we are not getting in our diets. I will try to post some of what he says in another post.



Adding chemicals to your body, causing the body to react in negative or unhealthy ways, is not the same as 'mental disorders are caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain'. I understand what you are saying, but I think you misunderstand (somewhat) the premises of the articles I linked.

Also, I would say being poisoned is not a 'chemical imbalance', it is called POISONING!

I agree mostly with you, but although poisoning is not considered a 'chemical imbalance', it is considered just what it is...poisoning. Certain poisonings like aspartame mimmic 'chemical imbalances' when describing symptoms to your doctor. Now it depends on how well your physician takes care of you. Too bad that there are many who are so strapped for time, they do not do the necessary tests needed to actually rule out whether one is ‘poisoned’ or diagnose the symptoms correctly. Remember that modern medicine treats ‘symptoms’ not the disease itself.





Nonsense. Your post doesn't say anything about how prayer and holiness can (Biblically) lead to greater health but that doesn't mean your post is 'only a half-truth'. Again, you are wanting them to talk about things outside the scope of their intended purpose.

Esaias, I don’t think we are too far off in our ideas here.

Let’s see where the possible problem in communication lies here.

Maybe it is the word ‘debunk’. Dictionary and Wiki defines the words ‘debunk’ and ‘debunker’

debunk |diˈbəNGk| verb
expose the falseness or hollowness of (a myth, idea, or belief):
debunker noun ,
debunkery noun

A debunker is a person who attempts to expose or discredit claims believed to be false, exaggerated or pretentious. The term is closely associated with skeptical investigation of controversial topics such as U.F.O.s, claimed paranormal phenomena, cryptids, conspiracy theories, alternative medicine, religion, or exploratory or fringe areas of scientific or pseudoscientific research.

A thorough ‘debunking’ would, imo, include all aspects of information to make a strong case of something being a myth.

So unless the standard of practice by physicians of calling mental illness ‘chemical imbalances’ is stopped and the practice of explaining to the patient that they have a ‘chemical imbalance’ is stopped, it just isn’t a debunk, but merely an opinion. It did not change anything.

A very good opinion I might add, but just their opinion is not going to change the way physicians practice treating depression, bipolar, schizophrenia etc. Big Pharma is making just way too much profit off the backs of the people. And we pay more for medications here in America than any place in the entire world for medications.

I think that by these definitions, I see an attempt made to debunk the ‘chemical imbalance’ as the cause to mental illness to be a myth. Yet, like “conspiracy theories’, the conspiracy theory does not actually debunk the said conspiracy does it? It’s just somebody’s opinion and that somebody is considered to be a ‘nutjob’. Right?


Pshaw! Researchers say that a chemical imbalance in the brain is a myth precisly because IT IS A MYTH, an unproven, unscientific, UNTRUTH. And the articles demonstrate that quite clearly.

I think you are mixing definitions here, what you call 'chemical imbalance' would probably more rightly be called POISONING.

Probably so...but far too many doctors will not look at it that way. Many of them do not investigate with medical lab tests like heavy metal toxicity, MSG toxicity, vitamin/mineral depletion, aspartame poisoning...etc that mimmic mental disorders. Many of them automatically diagnose a mental depression without extensive testing because many of the SSRIs do provide relief from symptoms for awhile.

Besides, we all know (everyone knows) that hormonal IMBALANCE can definitely affect mental state.

But that is not a 'chemical imbalance in the brain' that needs treatment with SSRI's and other psychotropic drugs.

Right indeed! Not disagreeing with you at all on this point. After working in hospitals for 20 years, I’ve seen SSRIs given to people who are not suffering from any type of mental disorder at all. I promise you that I’ve seen people receive prozac for weight loss, stress, high blood pressure and other things. No joke.

But the real issue here for me is that while the articles are correct in their assertion that ‘chemical imbalances’ are a myth, their article does not truly debunk the practice of giving out psychotropic medications until the physicians change that practice by stop telling patients that and stop giving them the medications.

They really need to go back to studying nutrition and do indepth lab tests to check for vitamin/mineral/enzyme levels to see if people are deficient in any of these things before they make diagnoses and label people with mental disorders.

All in all....I think you and I are on the same page. Perhaps it is just the way I scanned/read the articles and I see Matt’s reaction that alarms me.

People in this condition need some kind of hope for their medical nightmare. Physicians need to pony up and call it like it is...not sentence somebody for the ‘rest of your life’ being medicated type illness. But a few months of medication to *work out your problems through therapy and good nutrition and exercise* plan of medical care.


While many physicians feel that the AMA does not speak for them, the government recognizes them to be the leader and spokesmen in this nation’s healthcare system.

And always remember, once a diagnosis is put into your medical record, it will never be removed, rescinded or be labeled as a misdiagnosis.


.

[AreYouReady?]

That is a lot of good information you've shared AYR! We have begun to change and modify our diet and watch the things we eat, and we haven't been to the doctor in several years. There is no getting away from the things that are in the air we breathe, water we drink and even the soil we grow our food in from our garden, sadly. But at least we can start by watching what obvious ingredients our food have in them that are harmful to our bodies.

Ah but there is a way and many practicing physicians will not tell us what it is either. Sherry A Rogers M.D. is a holistic medical physician who says that there is a daily detox cocktail we can take to rid our bodies of toxins and heavy metals. It involves vitamin C, magnesium, alpha lipoic acid glutathione and one more that escapes my mind at the moment. You must get her book to get her full medical advice about it. Glutathione and alpha lipoic acid is very important according to her.

Most people do not know it but there has been and still is a quiet campaign going on to ban supplements in this country like they did in some places in Europe. Some say that the FDA will go about it through a back door. I don't know this to be fact. It's just scuttlebutt right now, but it would behoove the american people to look into it and tell our Congress not to interfere with our healthfood freedom.

You mentioned in another thread about writing a book... did you ever publish the book?

Not exactly. I self published for a few to read and got mostly good reviews. But...if you want to know why I never went further, PM me and i will tell you.

[AreYouReady?]

AYR, thanks for that wonderful refply.

I know of people who were on heavy psychotropic medications and through Christian counseling, repentance and prayers of deliverance they were able to get off of all the meds. There is one woman I know of who was told that she would have to be on chemical imbalance meds for the rest of her life. I will reach out to the people who know her and get her testimony.

Thank you for taking the time to read that lengthy post.

I would love to hear her testimony. Not all regions in America have Christian counseling. Some regions view people as demon possessed and have no contact , prayers of deliverance for the troubled unless it happens to be one of their own family members. I won't go into detail here, but many people left the organized church system because of no Christian counseling and shunning by the people who, incidentally I feel were just plain afraid.

I know of a Christian counselor (who has no secular or formal counseling credentials). She said that she had been able to work with 2 or 3 persons and with God's help they were able to get off all meds, but that she was not successful with most. Her belief as reported to me was that the people she was unsuccessful with were sold out to the system of psychology and totally convinced that what their psychology workers had told them about themselves and their conditions. She also said that when she was working with one person in counseling, the person's psychotherapist sent with the person a written document that he was relinquishing all responsibilities for the person (just in case the person came off his meds too soon and flipped out and did harm, the psychotherapist didn't want to be held liable).

They know these are powerful and sometimes dangerous medications. It takes many, many months to wean. Many people do have out of body experiences during the weaning process. It is a very strange experience. Many people do flip out during weaning, but just the same, there have been documented cases where people flipped out while faithfully taking the required prescribed dose likewise.

I think that those of us who call on the name of Jesus and have the power of his spiritual gifts should be praying for persons who are prone to mental illnesses and addictions. Many of these people are getting gov't funds because of their diagnoses and the thought of them getting delivered can be frightening to them because it means that they will lose their benefits, their publically funded housing, their food subsidies, etc and that they will be called to walk on faith, stand up and grow up and for many, the idea of that can be extremely frightening- even terrifying.

I don't know about them receiving government funds, but I have read about cases where some physicians receive perks and bonuses for prescribing psychiatric medications as well as other types of meds in different categories.

That's a new one for me. I wonder what kind of documentation I can find on the net about this.

[bbyrd009]

MotherJones is on that...
I've read a similar story...
of course, there are many
higher-functioning people trapped too.

[bbyrd009]

Ok, and I looked for the most recent
"depression" thread...so pardon the re-hijack--

As Christians, we are called to "hate your life,"
and so I wonder if your depressions are not just reflecting this?
This may have been covered already, but worth bringing up.

In that vein, this guy, Larry Wood, has an interesting
and fairly unique take on "The Spiritual Walk,"
included in this link:
http://www.biblenews1.com/marriage/marriagh.htm
this link is to page 3 or 4 on "Marriage Grace,"
but if you go to the bottom of the page,
you can get back to page 1...I think
"The Spiritual Walk" section might be page 2.

According to him, if you are a euphoric Christian,
you're prolly not doing it right! Lol,
at least until you have advanced to "Spiritual Rapport."

It can be tough to listen to "prosperity,"
or "milk and honey" sermons when you are being tested;
I provide this link for at least
a better understanding, possibly, of why you might be depressed,
and a possible road map to a way out.

He also allows that after testing, there should come a point
where one returns to "Garden of Eden..."

[AreYouReady?]

I've had a hard "row to hoe" most of my life so it's nothing new to me.

I just didn't understand why Holy Spirit filled people would tell me to lie about my feelings. I was told and was expected to fake my feelings. That would be easy if my feelings were 'just the blues'.

Clinical depression is not just 'the blues' though. Depression tears lives and marriages apart.

God can and does heal...sometimes it's through caring men and women if He chooses us to learn lessons that can only be learned through experiencing them.

And sometimes He chooses to heal people just like that. <snaps fingers>

Going through what I went through makes me feel more compassion towards others. Especially towards the sick, the elderly...the vulnerable.

[bbyrd009]

Well, I've been considering my past posts here
in that light, and realized that maybe much that I had posted might be true,
but not of much use to a depressive.

I have lived the life of Riley, basically;
can't really understand why I have had it so easy.
Never been rich, or anything...

I can say that I often didn't feel privileged at the time;
and purposefully finding things to thank God for every day
has also helped in this area.

[AreYouReady?]

Byrd, you've posted some very excellent information here.

Just know this...the very depressed can barely live through the day doing the bare essentials that they must do. The very depressed so much of the time do not feel rested ..if...they even are able to sleep at all during the night.

God can heal any illness. But sometimes people look at you as if it is your fault you are not healed from every illness...every disease.

[bbyrd009]

And viola', their premises are revealed.
I am so blessed (this is actually a curse)
to have an authority problem...hmm.
Curses turned into blessings, what a trip.
Anyway, this has allowed me to be disconnected
from what other people think, insulating me from this last part;
my response has always been, "Yes; what is your point?"

We do not exactly manifest healing as a body at the moment,
although there are exceptions. There is a time for everything, yes?
And we seem to be in a time of depression. I admit to a certain sense of depression right now; but I have more joy. Thinking about it, any depression I'm feeling comes strictly from the temporal. Ha, cool, I'm not depressed any more...

[Esaias]

All in all....I think you and I are on the same page. Perhaps it is just the way I scanned/read the articles and I see Matt’s reaction that alarms me.


.

No! This is AFF and we must DEBATE and SCREAM and YELL (see my all caps?) because gosh dabnaggit ONE of us is RIGHT and the OTHER is wrong!!!!!!

:spit

Just kidding.

I think we may be arguing over a minor semantic point.

Besides, my mother always told me I should grow up and be a lawyer cause I always argued with her.

:dogpat

[bbyrd009]

Many problems are documented in scripture which are the result of scar tissue of the soul. They include:
The cycles of discipline of a nation: The Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart (Exodus 10:20).
Paranoia (Leviticus 26:16)
Debilitating illness, boils, hemorrhoids, skin diseases (Leviticus 26:16; Deuteronomy 28:27)
Fever (Leviticus 26:16)
Eye problems (Leviticus 26:16)
Psychiatric problems, e.g. depression (Leviticus 26:16)
...
http://www.biblenews1.com/scartis/scartis1.htm#Reversionism

[AreYouReady?]

No! This is AFF and we must DEBATE and SCREAM and YELL (see my all caps?) because gosh dabnaggit ONE of us is RIGHT and the OTHER is wrong!!!!!!

:spit

Just kidding.

I think we may be arguing over a minor semantic point.

Besides, my mother always told me I should grow up and be a lawyer cause I always argued with her.

:dogpat

:thumbsup