Lost Souls/Demons

[Dedicated Mind]

just had a dream. can lost souls haunt the earth as Demons seeking to possess a body in order to escape hell fire? why would a demon from heaven/fallen angel seek to possess a body?

[houston]

Idk, don't think so. :) Some teach that demons are souls of men that inhabited the earth before the Adam and Eve saga.

[Aquila]

just had a dream. can lost souls haunt the earth as Demons seeking to possess a body in order to escape hell fire? why would a demon from heaven/fallen angel seek to possess a body?

You’ve asked some very interesting questions. There are a number of different theories. Let’s look at your questions.


can lost souls haunt the earth as Demons seeking to possess a body in order to escape hell fire?

The standard answer is “no”. Souls either reside in Heaven or Hell after death. However, some believe that the afterlife is more dynamic. The Bible states that it is appointed unto man once to die and then the judgment. But the Bible doesn’t say what happens between now and the judgment in all cases. It is possible that a spirit may linger, but we have no Biblical precedent for the notion. No lost soul will escape the final judgment and Hell (the lake of fire). I believe that it was traditional belief that the spirit of the deceased doesn’t pass entirely into the afterlife until after three days. Clearly the early church believed that it was possible to be visited by the spirit of a dead person:



Acts 12:14-16
King James Version (KJV)
14 And when she knew Peter's voice, she opened not the gate for gladness, but ran in, and told how Peter stood before the gate.
15 And they said unto her, Thou art mad. But she constantly affirmed that it was even so. Then said they, It is his angel.
16 But Peter continued knocking: and when they had opened the door, and saw him, they were astonished.

The phrase “his angel” is an endearing term for the spirit of a deceased saint. Many myths grew out of this that the saved become angels. Saints don’t become angels; they are simply angel-like.

Can the spirit of a lost soul “come back” to haunt on the earth??? Maybe. We see an interesting event in 1 Samuel. Saul beseeches the witch of Endor to call up the spirit of the deceased Samuel. Look closely at what happened:

1 Samuel 28:11-14
King James Version (KJV)
11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.
12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.
13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

Notice that the witch “saw gods ascending out of the earth”. The realm of the dead was believed to be beneath the surface of the earth in ancient times. As she called up Samuel… she also saw “gods”. The word here is, “'elohiym”. This word was not only used for the pagan “gods” of peoples surrounding the Israelites, but it was often used for angels, demons, and… ghosts. It is possible that when a witch opens a “doorway” into the realm of the dead to contact a dead person’s spirit that this “doorway” is opened for any spirit seeking escape back into our world. It therefore could be possible that those “ghosts” that are “haunting” an earthly home or location “escaped” from their confinement on account of a witch’s efforts to contact the dead. Consider it a “spiritual jail break”. This would explain why God so strongly forbids such efforts. Also, the text does say that it was indeed Samuel who finally did come forth. So… we know that the spirits of the deceased can be reached and brought forth into our world.

The most “biblical” theory I’ve read is that “ghosts” are actually “familiar spirits”. There is some debate over what a familiar spirit is. It is commonly connected to a medium (or psychic) that consults the dead. Familiar spirits might be spirits of the deceased, but most likely they are demons who assume the identity of the dead to lie to and mislead mankind. If Satan (and by implication his demons) can appear as angels of light… they can appear as one’s departed grandmother. This would mean that “ghosts” are a demonic deception, not the spirits of departed people.

Lastly, there is ONE theory that incorporates the notion that the spirits of beings that were once alive may have become demons. In Genesis we read about how the “sons of God”, or “bene-ha-elohim” (a Hebrew term used for angels in the OT), saw the daughters of men and took them as they pleased. Their children were called “giants”, or “Nephilim”. Here’s the text:

Genesis 6
King James Version (KJV)
6 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

The ancient Jews, as testified by Josephus, believed that fallen angels manifested in physical bodies capable of reproduction and reproduced with mankind. This grave sin produced “giants” (the Nephilim). These half demon/half human offspring are thought to have been alienated from God at birth and absolutely immoral, vile, and violent. Evidently, they were larger than the average human being. The ancients believed that when God sent the flood upon the earth the “sons of God” were bound in chains of darkness for their sin to await the day of judgment (2 Peter 2:4; Jude 1:6). But the demon/human spirits of the Nephilim were neither purely demon or human. Therefore they were not bound as demons, nor did they pass into the afterlife as humans. Instead, the spirits of these abominations were left to roam the earth as “unclean spirits”. Much of this is also written about in the Book of Enoch, which the Ethiopian church regards as sacred to this day. In demonology these spirits are regarded as a lower class of demon today.

I believe the Genesis 6 theory is intriguing. But my vote is that “ghosts” are “familiar spirits” (demons) taking on the personas of the dead. Perhaps “unclean spirits” are the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim. Both are entirely demonic.

why would a demon from heaven/fallen angel seek to possess a body

Good question. Obviously demons desire to destroy mankind and desecrate the image of God, which man bears. This is one motive for possession. However, there is another possible motive. Jesus said something very interesting…


Matthew 12:43-45
King James Version (KJV)
43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

Here Jesus describes what happens when an unclean spirit is cast out of a man. The spirit evidently wonders the earthly plane seeking “rest”. The word in the Greek is, “anapausis”. The Strong’s defines this as follows:

372 // anapausiv // anapausis // an-ap'-ow-sis //

from 373 ; TDNT - 1:350,56; n f

AV - rest 4, rest + 2192 1; 5

1) intermission, cessation of any motion, business or labour
2) rest, recreation

The root of “anapausis” is “anapauo” meaning to “rest, cease from movement, recover, refresh” Now, in context the spirit is seeking “rest, recreation, refreshment” from the “dry places”. The implication is that a spirit wonders the “dry places” seeking “refreshment”… a thirst. Many believe that unclean spirits have a thirst for sin. This is one more reason why sin can be so dangerous in the life of a person. It attracts sin thirsty spirits. But these spirits have a problem… they don’t have bodies to sin with. Therefore, to quench their thirst for sin… they must possess a body. An unclean spirit will seek to alienated a person’s soul (psyche, mind) from the holy. Once this is done the spirit can enter in and take control through “whispering”. As they whisper encouragement to sin and the sinner indulges the spirit’s thirst for sin is satisfied. This is why so many who are bound in sin find their sinful tendency a compulsion even though they hate it. A demon is driving their behaviors. The demon spirit will use and abuse their host as desired. Often plunging them deeper and deeper into gratuitous sin until they either kill the host or the host becomes no longer useful. It’s important to note that thousands of demons can inhabit a single person. Demons also have a “corporate” sense of self while in this mode. The more demons a person has… the stronger hold they have on the person. Also, the harder it can be to remove them. This is the kind that typically needs prayer and fasting for them to be adequately removed.

All of the above are just my thoughts and the theories I’ve heard. Just thought I’d share.

May God keep you and yours,

Psalm 91:4-6
King James Version (KJV)
4 He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.
5 Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;
6 Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.

[mfblume]

just had a dream. can lost souls haunt the earth as Demons seeking to possess a body in order to escape hell fire? why would a demon from heaven/fallen angel seek to possess a body?

There are various theories about demon's origins. The most common is they are fallen angels. Some even believe they fell and became disembodied spirits. The only way they can satisfy their cravings to manifest evil and thereby FEED, so to speak, is to inhabit a body and use it's faculties.

But a demon does crave to enter a body in order to manifest. Whether it is because it once had a body and lost it, is a huge question that is not answered in the bible. So the body issue is a theory. But they do crave to enter bodies and "feed" by ,manifesting their desires.

[bbyrd009]

"Souls either reside in Heaven or Hell after death."

I'd be interested in your doc for this, Aquila;
While it is alluded to, and assumed, I have never actually
read a verse of Scripture to this effect? Ty

[Aquila]

"Souls either reside in Heaven or Hell after death."

I'd be interested in your doc for this, Aquila;
While it is alluded to, and assumed, I have never actually
read a verse of Scripture to this effect? Ty

Ummm... you plucked a single statement out of that entire post. And that wasn't even what I was saying. Here it is in it's entirety...


The standard answer is “no”. Souls either reside in Heaven or Hell after death. However, some believe that the afterlife is more dynamic. The Bible states that it is appointed unto man once to die and then the judgment. But the Bible doesn’t say what happens between now and the judgment in all cases. It is possible that a spirit may linger, but we have no Biblical precedent for the notion. No lost soul will escape the final judgment and Hell (the lake of fire). I believe that it was traditional belief that the spirit of the deceased doesn’t pass entirely into the afterlife until after three days.

[Praxeas]

just had a dream. can lost souls haunt the earth as Demons seeking to possess a body in order to escape hell fire? why would a demon from heaven/fallen angel seek to possess a body?
Hell Fire is a catholic myth. The only "hell fire" is the lake of fire which death and the grave will be cast into

The word translated hell in your KJV is actually hades, the place of the dead or the grave, not a place of torment

[Dedicated Mind]

good thoughts aquila, a lot to ponder. just wondering why demons are free to roam but departed souls are not? since evil demons are chained, god must be controlling the amount of evil in world to some extent.

[Michael The Disciple]

Hell Fire is a catholic myth. The only "hell fire" is the lake of fire which death and the grave will be cast into

The word translated hell in your KJV is actually hades, the place of the dead or the grave, not a place of torment

Sound doctrine:highfive

[Aquila]

good thoughts aquila, a lot to ponder. just wondering why demons are free to roam but departed souls are not? since evil demons are chained, god must be controlling the amount of evil in world to some extent.

Great question. It's like the question I've asked since I was about 14 years old. I've yet to find but one answer to the question. I'd like to know if anyone here can shed any additional light on the topic.

The Bible states that "angels that sinned" are currently bound:


2 Peter 2:4
King James Version (KJV)
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jude 1:6
King James Version (KJV)
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Both Peter and Jude wrote these statements in a way that appears to presuppose that their readers would know what they were talking about... because they offer no explanation. Here's my question...

What did "sin" did these angels commit that warrants them being "bound" and "reserved" unto judgment... while Satan himself and the rest of the fallen angels are allowed to roam free???

Any takers?

[Aquila]

Hell Fire is a catholic myth. The only "hell fire" is the lake of fire which death and the grave will be cast into

The word translated hell in your KJV is actually hades, the place of the dead or the grave, not a place of torment


Luke 16:23-25
King James Version (KJV)
23 And in hell (HADES) he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

Sound doctrine. :happydance

[bbyrd009]

Hmm, I thought that was "Sheol," there...

[Praxeas]

Luke 16:23-25
King James Version (KJV)
23 And in hell (HADES) he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.Sound doctrine. :happydance
Luk 16:19 "There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day.
Luk 16:20 And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores,
Luk 16:21 who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores.
Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,
Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
Luk 16:24 And he called out, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.'
Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish.
Luk 16:26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.'
Luk 16:27 And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father's house--
Luk 16:28 for I have five brothers--so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.'
Luk 16:29 But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.'
Luk 16:30 And he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'
Luk 16:31 He said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.'"

The is a parable. Let's examine for a second some facts.
These men are dead. Their bodies are buried and decayed so if they exist they exist in spirit form.

So where ever they exist it must not be a physical world with physical needs

The poor man was nor buried but carried by angels to be with Abraham, contrary to what happens when everyone dies, they are buried.

The rich man was just buried

In Hades the rich man now has super vision for he can see all the way to where Abraham is

There is water, for some odd reason, in this spirit place.

The rich man specifically asks for Lazarus to dip his finger thus extending the antagonist and protagonist of the story even to the grave.

The rich man is thirsty and believes the water where Lazarus is will satisfy him. Apparently it would be possible for lazarus to dip his finger in water, take a drop of it over to where the rich man is in torment, and drip that one drop of water into his mouth.

BUT then mentioned later, the reason he can't is there is a huge chasm between them, as if the Rich man could not see that yet he can see Abraham over there

Then they, the dead, continue this conversation now about sending Lazarus of all people, back. No mention that this is impossible to do.

Solomon says the dead know nothing.

I ask, does it make sense to take people OUT of a fiery torment and then toss them into a NEW place of fiery torment? When they are already being tormented?

And why if they have not been judged yet? Punishment is a legal sentence upon being judged.

No this is a parable to teach a greater truth as all parables are

[Aquila]

The is a parable. Let's examine for a second some facts.
These men are dead. Their bodies are buried and decayed so if they exist they exist in spirit form.
Amen.

So where ever they exist it must not be a physical world with physical needs

Correct. They exist in a spiritual reality.

The poor man was not buried but carried by angels to be with Abraham, contrary to what happens when everyone dies, they are buried.

*ALERT* The poor man DIED. In the ancient Jewish culture the listeners would have been aghast at what deplorable state the man died in seeing that his burial isn’t even mentioned. The poor man was most likely not even buried because he was poor. The poor and unclaimed often had their bodies cast into Gehinnom to be burned. The text then states that the poor man was carried by angels to be with Abraham. Angels are spiritual beings without natural bodies. Therefore, we can safely say that the angels are carrying the poor man’s spirit to be with Abraham.

The rich man was just buried

With regards to his body, yes.

In Hades the rich man now has super vision for he can see all the way to where Abraham is.

No supervision needed. Abraham was far off, but obviously close enough to communicate with. A gulf can be much like a cleft in the rock dividing regions. For example,

http://www.rccggpselpaso.org/cleft.jpg


There is water, for some odd reason, in this spirit place.

The passage doesn’t tell us that there is water in this place. It only states that the rich man being in torments requests that Lazarus be allowed to dip his finger in water (something the rich man remembers from earth that would satisfy this sense of burning) and cool his tongue.

The rich man specifically asks for Lazarus to dip his finger thus extending the antagonist and protagonist of the story even to the grave.

True.

The rich man is thirsty and believes the water where Lazarus is will satisfy him.

The rich man is in fiery torments. Any chance of relief no matter how small is being pleaded for. He’s not just “thirsty”.

Apparently it would be possible for lazarus to dip his finger in water, take a drop of it over to where the rich man is in torment, and drip that one drop of water into his mouth.

How so? My son pleaded for me to make the pain go away when he busted up his elbow. Just because someone pleads for something… it doesn’t mean it’s possible.

BUT then mentioned later, the reason he can't is there is a huge chasm between them, as if the Rich man could not see that yet he can see Abraham over there

If we were camping on the edge of a cliff and awakened to being trapped and surrounded by a forest fire, we might see comrades who camped on an opposing cliff and scream for them to help us… even though we are aware of the chasm. We’d be essentially screaming for our lives, hoping THEY might find a way to help. It’s not rocket science.

Then they, the dead, continue this conversation now about sending Lazarus of all people, back. No mention that this is impossible to do.

Desperate people in agony often plead for the impossible. Abraham wasn’t going to get into a debate regarding what was possible or impossible. Abraham explained that the rich man’s brothers have the OT, let them heed the OT warnings. Because if they will not believe Moses and the Prophets… they’ll not believe even if one arose from the dead.

Solomon says the dead know nothing.

I assume you’re talking about this verse:

Ecclesiastes 9:10
Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

All this means is that we are to do all we can in this life… because there is no work, planning, things to learn, or wisdom regarding this life to be gained in Hell (Hades).

I ask, does it make sense to take people OUT of a fiery torment and then toss them into a NEW place of fiery torment? When they are already being tormented?

Yes. For example, we arrest people and place them in jail until trial. After their trail they face their prison sentence. Everyone will await their “day in court” wherein they will face judgment and sentencing; the wicked wait that day in torments, the righteous in spiritual bliss, resting in the presence of God.

And why if they have not been judged yet? Punishment is a legal sentence upon being judged.

Again: incarceration, trial, sentencing, sentence.

No this is a parable to teach a greater truth as all parables are.

We agree here. I do see a greater truth here. I see this as being about the spiritually impoverished Gentile Elect vs. the Jews who had a rich spiritual heritage. The Jews will one day find themselves in torments, being cut off from God, praying that someone return to warn their brethren of the Hell that awaits them. Yet, they have Moses and the Prophets… and they will not believe them. And in truth, they will not believe even should one rise from the dead and warn them (which Jesus essentially proved).

However, a parable is only true in its truth. The truth of only needing faith the size of a mustard seed is only true because the mustard seed is truly one of the smallest of seeds. Jesus is essentially warning an entire nation about Hell’s reality and where they will stand.

I would also like to illustrate the common belief regarding Hades in Christ’s day to underscore my point. In the writings of Josephus we see an example of what was traditionally believed about Hades among the Jews:

"...Hades is a place in the world not regularly finished; a subterraneous region, wherein the light of this world does not shine; from which circumstance, that in this region the light does not shine, it cannot be but there must be in it perpetual darkness. This region is allotted as a place of custody for souls, in which angels are appointed as guardians to them, who distribute to them temporary punishments, agreeable to every one's behavior and manners". ~ Josephus's Discourse To The Greeks Concerning Hades, paragraph 1". Retrieved 2007-07-11

Christ’s parable is a warning to an entire nation regarding Hell’s reality. Their rich spiritual heritage will not save them.

Now… I’m going to wax a bit literalist here. The spirit is essentially “energy”. A spirit can affect the environment and even materialize (as seen in the OT angels repeatedly). In more modern research a spiritual presence is believed to even affect electromagnetic fields and change the temperature in rooms. Energy is also subject to the environment. Therefore, so are spirits. Christ’s teaching regarding unclean spirits walking through “dry places” seeking “rest” illustrates this. Now, let’s take this even further. Imagine the spirits of the damned being condemned to a subterraneous region deep beneath the earth’s surface… perhaps so deep… they are subject to the great heat, fire, and magma. The ancients had no idea that the core of our world was molten hot iron and nickel. Yet they believed in a hellish reality beneath earth’s surface. Also, many who are not skilled with the supernatural don’t realize that spiritual realities overlap, especially on the material plane. Heaven and Hell can coexist in the same spatial location (the same way thousands of spirits can be in one person). Each reality, Heaven and/or Hell, can exist essentially in the same spatial location oblivious of one another… or even aware of one another given attunement. We see this in the Revelation (Revelation 14:10).

The fundamental philosophy of the position you’re espousing here, Prax, is essentially a materialistic Christian Humanist position. There are non-material realities. God is a living and conscious non-material reality. Angels and demons are living and conscious non-material realties. Even Satan himself is a non-material living and conscious reality. Evidently in your view, man is no higher than the animals, having no non-material reality to his nature. (The non-material reality of animals can be debated also.) However, the human “soul” (mind) is indeed a non-material reality that produces thoughts, more non-material realities. You’re theory assumes that without the material part of man… the non-material reality of the mind ceases to exist upon death… until reawakened. Congratulations, that’s one step away from materialistic atheism. Death = Lights out. Wrong. Near death experiences where in people have been consciously aware of their surroundings, individuals, decorations, clothing and jewelry medics were wearing testifies that a very real and conscious reality does exist apart from the material body. Testimonies of seeing angels, demons, God (the Light), fields, dead loved ones, etc. also testify against this notion of theistic-materialism. I categorically reject it as false doctrine.

Now, you’re a great guy Prax on a personal level. But this teaching isn’t something I can buy given my own experiences and what I see in the testimony of Scripture. You can believe it if you wish… but I don’t buy it.

[Aquila]

As I said before...

Luke 16:23-25
King James Version (KJV)
23 And in hell (HADES) he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

Sound doctrine. :happydance

[Arphaxad]

Rev 20:14-Death and Hades(hell) cast into the lake of fire.

obviously no one is burning yet.


:doggyrun

[Aquila]

Rev 20:14-Death and Hades(hell) cast into the lake of fire.

obviously no one is burning yet.


:doggyrun

Luke 16:23-25
King James Version (KJV)
23 And in hell (HADES) he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

In today's world people are arrested, placed in jail, await trial, are tried, found guilty, sentenced, and sent to prison.

Same deal.

All Rev 20:14 is saying is that those in Hades are going to be cast into the Lake of Fire after their judgment.

[Arphaxad]

Luke 16:23-25
King James Version (KJV)
23 And in hell (HADES) he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

In today's world people are arrested, placed in jail, await trial, are tried, found guilty, sentenced, and sent to prison.

Same deal.

All Rev 20:14 is saying is that those in Hades are going to be cast into the Lake of Fire after their judgment.

so todays world is the same as bible days? btw there are some places in todays world where a person is arrested and sent straight to prison, no trial, nothing.
The US is vastly different than Israel of Bible days.

anyways what you are saying is "out of the frying pan, into the fire"?

:doggyrun

[Michael The Disciple]

Isnt it a bit odd that God is not mentioned in Abrahams Bosom? And that the rich man PRAYED TO ABRAHAM?

I wonder where souls went before Abraham died and took the supervision of his bosom? Where did Noah and the rest go?

Comparing this section of scripture with the foundation of truth about death that had been laid in the writings of the Prophets already this seems to be a parable.

[Michael The Disciple]

Do we realize that at the last trumpet when Jesus comes to raise the dead that it is THEN that believers are set free from Hades?

51 Behold , I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep , but we shall all be changed , 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound , and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed . 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written , Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 1 Cor. 15:51-55

Note in verse 55 where we see o grave where is your victory? The real greek word there is HADES. Check it out in the New King James.

On the day of the resurrection of the dead THEN Hades no longer has the victory.

In other words all Christians that have ever died are still in Hades awaiting the second coming when the dead are raised.

The typical doctrine of Catholics and Protestants is that when Christians die they go to Heaven in concious bless to their reward in Heaven.

Paul collapses that doctrine here in 1 Cor. 15:55

[bbyrd009]

Hmm, quite a bit of mixing
"the grave" with "hades..."

And I might point out that
a vast gulf, chasm, can separate
two people who are standing right
next to each other.

I still have not..."heard" why the rich man
would ask Lazarus, of all people, for relief;
my understanding has always been that that "water"
was a proxy for "living water,"
and should not be taken to mean
literal water.

[bbyrd009]

This doesn't really answer the Q,
except obliquely. An informed take
on "demons."

Not even Paul's Guardian Angel was able to deal with Paul's demon because God sent the demon and only God in His Grace could remove it.

Paul was one of the few people in history who caught on to Grace Orientation for dealing with scar tissue of the soul and demons. Those who recommend anything other than Church Age doctrine from the epistles for dealing with demons are deceived. The woods are full of worldly proposals for removing demons. Among the false solutions are pleading the blood, invoking the name of Jesus, exorcism, commanding the demons, binding Satan, talking to demons, or quoting scripture. Using a crucifix, holy water, or a paper Bible are equally ludicrous. These things are not sacred. These methods simply play into the hands of the demons, who thrive on attention.

The one practicing these things is the dupe. If a person can be frightened, angered, or intimidated by the demon, he has already lost the battle. There are two methods for Christians to deal with demons: (1) Resist the devil, and (2) Grace Orientation. The unbeliever needs the Gospel - not exorcism. See Mystery Babylon the Great, Solution to Demon Attacks for more details.

Therefore, I find contentment in weaknesses, in insults, in distresses, in persecutions, in straits for Christ's sake; for you see, when I am weak, then am I strong. (2 Corinthians 12:10)
Paul saw that all the stresses in his life were Stress Tests...

http://www.biblenews1.com/scartis/scartis1.htm#Reversionism