Gateway's New DVD - shocker

[Sherri]

I just watched Gateway's new choir DVD that was recorded last month in St. Louis. It is AWESOME, by the way. But I was amazed at the way things have changed in the 16 years since we left UPC. The entire choir was dancing (boogeying) to the music, and I don't mean in the Spirit. From someone who has not been around UPC music/artists much in the past 16 years, the change blew me away. Trust me, I thought the music and moves were great, but this is something we used to get criticized for - dancing around, jumping, etc. to the music beat with our eyes open and not doing the shockamoo stuff. When did this all happen???

[rgcraig]

You haven't seen the choreographed dancing in UPC before?

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

You haven't seen the choreographed dancing in UPC before?

The Stick deal that came through was odd also Sherri.

[LaVonne]

The Stick deal that came through was odd also Sherri.

They started doing this back in Oregon awhile back...Not sure I like it all that much myself.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

They started doing this back in Oregon awhile back...Not sure I like it all that much myself.

Incredible - I have only seen it "performed" in UC churches!

[LaVonne]

Incredible - I have only seen it "performed" in UC churches!

Really? Ours was moderate...however, they did let a trinitarian pastor preach there not too long ago...

[Sherri]

You haven't seen the choreographed dancing in UPC before?
A couple of years ago, my brother was preaching at a church not far from here, so my parents and I went to hear him, since we rarely get to. The choir was singing and they were all jumping up and down to the music and that kind of blew me away then. But this DVD, they were absolutely DANCING, and I thought that was totally forbidden.

[Ronzo]

A couple of years ago, my brother was preaching at a church not far from here, so my parents and I went to hear him, since we rarely get to. The choir was singing and they were all jumping up and down to the music and that kind of blew me away then. But this DVD, they were absolutely DANCING, and I thought that was totally forbidden.
Dancing for God is not condemned by the bible. I don't understand that logic.

[Rev Dooley]

This has been going on in some churches for a number of years.
The dowel rods (stick thing) was ignominously called "Stick it" by members of our old church. It was okay to watch at first, but felt like it was more of a show eventually and not terribly inspired IMO.
I enjoy good music, but do feel that when people are just dancing and not doing it for the Lord, then it is plainly carnal.
On a side note, Bro Stoneking once said "We may start out in the flesh, but we can end up in the Spirit" so with that in mind it is certainly possible for it to become towards the Lord. I just would not want to see it degraded to become something that is charismatic and ungodly.

[Sherri]

Dancing for God is not condemned by the bible. I don't understand that logic.
Ok, I don't think it is wrong either, but we were ALWAYS taught in UPC that it was "flesh" if you weren't "dancing in the Spirit". I'm just saying that 16 years ago, this would never have been accepted. If you have been in UPC all this time, you have probably not noticed the gradual progression. Being gone all these years, it was very obvious.

[Sherri]

This has been going on in some churches for a number of years.
The dowel rods (stick thing) was ignominously called "Stick it" by members of our old church. It was okay to watch at first, but felt like it was more of a show eventually and not terribly inspired IMO.
I enjoy good music, but do feel that when people are just dancing and not doing it for the Lord, then it is plainly carnal.
On a side note, Bro Stoneking once said "We may start out in the flesh, but we can end up in the Spirit" so with that in mind it is certainly possible for it to become towards the Lord. I just would not want to see it degraded to become something that is charismatic and ungodly.
I think it's hilarious that these two words automatically go together on this forum. :lol Charismatic just means believing in the supernatural gifts; it is always used on this board almost as a bad word.

[Rev Dooley]

Ok, I don't think it is wrong either, but we were ALWAYS taught in UPC that it was "flesh" if you weren't "dancing in the Spirit". I'm just saying that 16 years ago, this would never have been accepted. If you have been in UPC all this time, you have probably not noticed the gradual progression. Being gone all these years, it was very obvious.While I agree that some of it may be in the flesh (sensual gyrations and the like), I can't honestly say that all of it is.
I've been in the UPC for about 15 years, so I have seen it transition from what it was when we got there to what it is now. Some of the transition has been good.
I have seen where a lady went down front and lay down on the floor and started to lift her legs in the air, exposing herself. The ushers stepped in and stopped this for it was extremely innappropriate for any setting.
Many times I have seen folks start out moving then go into spirit. I see no problem with that whatsoever.

[Rev Dooley]

I think it's hilarious that these two words automatically go together on this forum. :lol Charismatic just means believing in the supernatural gifts; it is always used on this board almost as a bad word.Well, maybe to some, but I was once a charismatic so to me it is a bad term for it speaks of my own personal experience in the charismatic renewal.
I saw much ungodly behaviour there that was called holy. That is why I associate the two words together.

[Sherri]

Well, maybe to some, but I was once a charismatic so to me it is a bad term for it speaks of my own personal experience in the charismatic renewal.
I saw much ungodly behaviour there that was called holy. That is why I associate the two words together.
I DO understand, since I have seen a lot of weird things out there too. My husband always says people can go from glory to goofy in a matter of seconds. I do not consider myself Charismatic in the sense of what group I would associate with. But I do believe in the charisms of the Holy Spirit. I just tell people we are Spirit filled Christians.

[Rev Dooley]

I DO understand, since I have seen a lot of weird things out there too. My husband always says people can go from glory to goofy in a matter of seconds. I do not consider myself Charismatic in the sense of what group I would associate with. But I do believe in the charisms of the Holy Spirit. I just tell people we are Spirit filled Christians.Well, in that sense of the word, I can agree.
Glory to goofy...I might just use that one.:thumbsup

[Monkeyman]

I have danced for many years....grew up black gospel with the swaying choir, sung at a lot of swaying churches, and this was always considered ok by the "white folk" cuz' it was "cultural". Now Hillsong United and others have brought a different angle to it, more jumping then swaying but I see no difference. I always feel so joyful when dancing for God. There have been some times that it has been uncontrolled in my many years but often I am in control and I absolutely LOVE it. I do it not for performance but to dance before Him. Does it look silly? Naw, I got some soul so I can move, but even if it did, I could care LESS what anyone thinks!
Our young people do it, and I'm glad they are in church praising God.
Our church youth also does, stick/sign and are VERY anointed.

[Ron]

How does one "Dance in the spirit" anyways??

All dancing is in the flesh, it is the purpose and attitude with which we do it that counts.

Are we dancing because of the music, the rythim, or because we are so full of Joy and grareful for all that God has d0one for us??

I just don't understand.

I dance when I feel the annointing, I dance when I don't.

I do it for the Lord.:woohoo:shockamoo

[Sister Alvear]

Hebrew

Hallal - to extol; to praise in words or singing; to boast; to celebrate; to make a show; to rave. used 99 times

Gil - to shout; to circle in joy. used 29 times

Tehillah - sing hallals. used 50 times

Saphar - recount; proclaim. used 18 times

Shabach - to shout; to praise the Lord with a loud tone. used 7 times

Ranan - to shout with joy. used 42 times

Zamar - to pluck strings of an instrument; to make music accompanied by the voice. used 40 times

Maha - to clap. used 1 time

Neginah - music; song. used 8 times

Nagan - to play a stringed instrument. used 2 times

Yadah - worship with extended hands; to throw your hands out like you're throwing spears. used 90 times

Barak - kneel; bless; salute; an act of adoration alone or as a group. used 70 times

Todah - lift up hands. used 32 times

Ragad - dance; skip about. used 1 time

Sahag - play; dance. used 4 times

Pazaz - leap. used 1 time

Mahallal - to act as if you have gone mad.

Greek

Ainesis, ainos, aineo - extol; to praise in words or singing; boast; celebrate. used 14 times

Epainos, epaineo - strengthen form of ainos. used 17 times

Exomologeomai - confess forth openly, freely. used 11 times

Humneo, humnos - to sing praises. used 6 times

Psallo - twitch, twang, play musical instrument. used 12 times

Eulogatos, eulogia - kneel; bless; salute. used 21 times

Allomai - leap. used 1 time

Gonupeteo - kneel down. used 4 times

Kampto - to bend the knee. used 2 times

Pipto - to fall to the ground. used 15 times

Proskuneo - to fall down and worship. used 42 times

Skirtao - to leap with joy. used 3 times

[Monkeyman]

How does one "Dance in the spirit" antways??

All dancing is in the flesh, it is the purpose and attitude with which we do it.

Are we dancing because of the music, the rythim, or because we are so full of Joy and grareful for all that God has d0one for us??

I just don't understand.

I dance when I feel the annointing, I dance when I don't.

I do it for the Lord.:woohoo:shockamooGreat post Ron. Folks you should try this....dance when your alone with God.
Speaking of uncontrolled....had a dude once who looked like he was kick-starting a motorcyle, wow, it was pretty, ummm, unusual! Good for him though!

[Ronzo]

How does one "Dance in the spirit" anyways??

All dancing is in the flesh, it is the purpose and attitude with which we do it that counts.

Are we dancing because of the music, the rythim, or because we are so full of Joy and grareful for all that God has d0one for us??

I just don't understand.

I dance when I feel the annointing, I dance when I don't.

I do it for the Lord.:woohoo:shockamoo
Bingo.

The heavens don't have to open and the waters don't have to part.

I'm gonna do it because I want to do it... because he's made me happy.

[Sister Alvear]

The Hebrew Tradition
Dance was an integral part of the celebrations of the ancient Israelites. It was used both in worship in ordinary life and on occasions of triumphant victory and festivity.
The sacred dance mediated between God and humanity, thus bringing the Israelites into a closer relationship with their God, Jehovah.
In many Old Testament biblical allusions to, and descriptions of, dance there is no disapproval, only affirmation of this medium of worship. The people are exhorted to praise God with 'dancing, making melody to him with timbrel and lyre' (Psalm 149:3), and to 'praise him with timbrel and dance' (Psalm 150:4). Dancing is so common that in passages alluding to rejoicing without specific mention of dancing, it can be assumed dance is implied (Gagne 1984:24).
The most frequently used root for the word 'dance' in the Old Testament is hul which refers to the whirl of the dance and implies highly active movement. Of the 44 words in the Hebrew language for dancing, only in one is there a possible reference to secular movement as distinct from religious dancing (Clarke and Crisp 1981:35).
The types of dance used in Israelite society included the circular or ring dance, as well as the processional dance. These were often used to celebrate specific events as when David and the people of Israel danced before the Ark of the Lord, which represented the presence of God (2 Samuel 6:14).
A third type of dance included hopping and whirling movements which were exuberant with joy. At the defeat of Pharaoh's armies following the crossing of the Red Sea, 'Miriam, the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances' (Exodus 15:20). When David slew Goliath, the women sang 'to one another in dance' (1 Samuel 29:5).
Each of these forms of dance found an expression in daily life and at festival times. At the Feast of Tabernacles, for instance, 'pious men danced with torches in their hands and sang songs of joy and praise, while the Levites played all sorts of instruments. The dance drew crowds of spectators ... It did not end until the morning at a given sign' (Gagne 1984:30). The revered tradition of community celebration found its expression through movement.
However, dance is not mentioned formally in the Mosaic code, nor was the movement free of certain prohibitions. A distinction came to be made between the early, holy dances of a sacred nature, and those which resembled pagan ceremonies. This distinction, made by the Israelites, was to be made even more sharply by the Christians in the following centuries.
The Early Christian Church (A.D. 100-500)
In the first five centuries of the Christian church 'dance was still acceptable because it was planted deep in the soil of the Judeo-Christian tradition' (Gagne 1984:43). Christians were accustomed to celebrating, in dance, at worship and festivals because of the Hebrew tradition of dance.
Christianity was also subjected to the prevailing social and political influences of the Roman Empire. Changing circumstances in the 4th century thus led to changes in the importance and meaning of dance as well as in the dance material used in Christian liturgy. In the course of the history of theatre and dance, Christianity shaped and proscribed new developments. Although seemingly restrictive in these early centuries, 'the church actually created a context for new flowerings of social, theatrical and religious dance' (Fallon and Wolbers 1982:9).
The New Testament gives few direct references to dance. 'But even this points to a possible parallel of the Jewish tradition of presuming the presence of dance without the need to mention it explicitly' (Gagne 1984:35). Evidence of the use of dance as an accepted expression of joy is reflected in Jesus' comment, 'We piped to you but you did not dance' (Matthew 11:17). Similarly, in Jesus' parable of the prodigal son there was dancing and rejoicing on the son's return to his home (Luke 15:25).
Paul reminds Christians that their bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit and that they should glorify God with their bodies (1 Corinthians 6:19-20). He further indicates physical movement is an approved part of prayer-like expression when he exhorts Timothy to pray lifting up holy hands (1 Timothy 2:8). The biblical stance for most prayers included raising arms and hands above the head (1 Timothy 2:8). In prayers of confession, kneeling or prostration was common, and in thanksgiving prayers or intercession standing with arms raised was common (Adams 1975:4).

[Monkeyman]

In my office at church, I hear the youth singing (loudly)

Lord I Give You my heart, I give You my soul
I live for You alone
Every breath that I take, every moment I'm awake
Lord have Your way in me

I could dance right now

[Ronzo]

Great post Ron. Folks you should try this....dance when your alone with God.

Been there done that. Love it. Just me and Him...

[crakjak]

Ok, I don't think it is wrong either, but we were ALWAYS taught in UPC that it was "flesh" if you weren't "dancing in the Spirit". I'm just saying that 16 years ago, this would never have been accepted. If you have been in UPC all this time, you have probably not noticed the gradual progression. Being gone all these years, it was very obvious.

Right, and what was the determining factor? I believe it was in the spirit if it was totally out of control, and not in the spirit if it had any flow or control in it? :heeheehee:heeheehee

[IAintMovin]

Some of us are not fans of the dancing that is done to the beat of the music only.......where there is no worship.......just like anything else.....

[Ron]

Bingo.

The heavens don't have to open and the waters don't have to part.

I'm gonna do it because I want to do it... because he's made me happy.

That's the way I see it. Not choregraphed, and heh, heh, not too gracefull,
but I do it for him!

[Sherri]

I am a dancer, and I love it, choreographed or non-choreographed. I love it all and I'm glad that UPC is finally accepting it as valid. I was just surprised; that's all.

[Ron]

Some of us are not fans of the dancing that is done to the beat of the music only.......where there is no worship.......just like anything else.....


True, but how does one make that determination?

I agree that some ""dancing"" is sensual & carnal, but that does not detract in someone so focused on the Lord, breaking into a dance-just because.

JMHO

[IAintMovin]

True, but how does one make that determination?

I agree that some ""dancing"" is sensual & carnal, but that does not detract in someone so focused on the Lord, breaking into a dance-just because.

JMHOI agree... but the opening post made it very clear that it was NOT a work of the spirit..........

[MissBrattified]

I agree... but the opening post made it very clear that it was NOT a work of the spirit..........

I was always under the impression that dancing (unto the Lord) was the work of a human being worshipping God.

[Sherri]

I was always under the impression that dancing (unto the Lord) was the work of a human being worshipping God.
Me too...that's why I never understood the whole "in the Spirit" thing. We are always in the flesh; that's who we are. If we were "in the Spirit", I think we could dance through the walls.

[CC1]

Sherri,

What is the name of this new Gateway DVD and where did you get it?

[Sherri]

Sherri,

What is the name of this new Gateway DVD and where did you get it?
I don't even know; my brother was down and it was recorded at this church. They had not seen it either until we watched it together. When I was at his church dedication in March, the Gateway choir sang there. They are really good! I think Gateway is kind of the "Bible college of Choice" at the present. You know how it kind of goes in cycles.

[MissBrattified]

Personally, I'm glad that we're dropping some of the ignorant ideas about what constitutes worship and what doesn't, and the attitude that you have to be mindless and half-unconscious in order to dance before the Lord or move anything beyond a hand clap.

I would expect those of you who share that sentiment to encourage it and applaud it rather than use it as a point of criticism. :coffee2

P.S. Sherri, I understand your surprise, but honestly, some of you must have grown up in the most fuddy-duddy churches available, because my Daddy taught my entire life that people worshipped in their flesh, and reprimanded folks about not running into others and watching where they were going while they worshipped.

[CC1]

I don't even know; my brother was down and it was recorded at this church. They had not seen it either until we watched it together. When I was at his church dedication in March, the Gateway choir sang there. They are really good! I think Gateway is kind of the "Bible college of Choice" at the present. You know how it kind of goes in cycles.

Hmmmm...last I heard IBC was still THE place to be but you are right that things seem to go in cycles and maybe it is time for another one to ascend.

My youngest son drove through St. Louis for the first time recently and said it looked like a war zone. I think he saw the really bad ghetto part from the interstate of something. He was very unimpressed. But then he grew up in two great cities, Austin, TX and Nashville, TN!!!!

[MissBrattified]

Hmmmm...last I heard IBC was still THE place to be but you are right that things seem to go in cycles and maybe it is time for another one to ascend.

My youngest son drove through St. Louis for the first time recently and said it looked like a war zone. I think he saw the really bad ghetto part from the interstate of something. He was very unimpressed. But then he grew up in two great cities, Austin, TX and Nashville, TN!!!!

I took a wrong turn in St. Louis with a friend of mine (looking for a gas station), and I was not thrilled with where we ended up. DEFINITELY ghetto to the max. It was one of those places where you can't even get a candy bar without a clerk handing it to you from behind bars and bulletproof glass...unnerving, to say the least.

[Sherri]

Personally, I'm glad that we're dropping some of the ignorant ideas about what constitutes worship and what doesn't, and the attitude that you have to be mindless and half-unconscious in order to dance before the Lord or move anything beyond a hand clap.

I would expect those of you who share that sentiment to encourage it and applaud it rather than use it as a point of criticism. :coffee2

P.S. Sherri, I understand your surprise, but honestly, some of you must have grown up in the most fuddy-duddy churches available, because my Daddy taught my entire life that people worshipped in their flesh, and reprimanded folks about not running into others and watching where they were going while they worshipped.
Well, I remember one church I went to some where a good service meant someone had knocked the clock off the back wall, ran into the air conditioner, or knocked the doors off the hinges. Those kinds of things tend to stick in your mind as a young person.

[MissBrattified]

Well, I remember one church I went to some where a good service meant someone had knocked the clock off the back wall, ran into the air conditioner, or knocked the doors off the hinges. Those kinds of things tend to stick in your mind as a young person.

I do remember a guy in Bro. McGruder's church who used to run the backs of the pews. He never hit anyone that I know of...I think CM would've said something to him, if he had.

I'm not saying the all-out-worship-God any way you feel like it is bad...I'm just saying I'm glad that at least a few people are realizing it doesn't have to be like that in order to be a valid form of praising God. I suppose I really dislike the notion that praise and worship must be unplanned and spontaneous. There have been times when I have made up my mind WAY before arriving at church that I was going to raise my hands, stand up and sing and clap and worship God even though I didn't feel like it. I don't see how dancing should be the exception to that.

[CC1]

I took a wrong turn in St. Louis with a friend of mine (looking for a gas station), and I was not thrilled with where we ended up. DEFINITELY ghetto to the max. It was one of those places where you can't even get a candy bar without a clerk handing it to you from behind bars and bulletproof glass...unnerving, to say the least.

That happened to me not long ago staying in Memphis. The first clue should have been when the Mariott hotel had a very tall wrought iron fence around the entire property. Several thousand feet of expensive fencing with only one controlled entrance and exit.

I almost ran out of gas and stopped in a place close to the hotel about 10 pm at night. Two homeless guys I saw out of the corner of my eye while I was pumping the gas spotted me and one wandered over to panhandle me. Then when I went inside the store to get a coke it was exactly as you described. Not only were the clerks behind bulletproof glass but the slot was only big enough to slide money for a credit card through. You just held up what you were buying and they apparently knew the prices by heart and rang it up. I have not been that nervous for a very long time

[CC1]

Well, I remember one church I went to some where a good service meant someone had knocked the clock off the back wall, ran into the air conditioner, or knocked the doors off the hinges. Those kinds of things tend to stick in your mind as a young person.

That is old time Pentecost!

[Ronzo]

That is old time Pentecost!
They must have been real rich back in those days to be able to repair all the damage that 'the Spirit' made people do, eh?

[Sister Alvear]

That is so funny...My kids would love for you to tell them stories like that...I try to stay mostly in the flesh when I worship as it helps to know where you are going at my age. Sure don't want any broke bones.

[Sister Alvear]

I love our worship at our church...

[Sister Alvear]

Been trying to get Sherri to come over and run the aisles with me..ha....

[MissBrattified]

I love our worship at our church...

You know, it always strikes me that the worship in other cultures is so different from what it is here in the states (in many cases). One video our pastor brought home from Ghana shows the women dancing around in a circle (eyes open), waving hankies, completely planned, pretty well choreographed...and no one seems to mind. Do that here in the states, and you're not "in the spirit." In many cases, children are participating and *gasp* laughing, having FUN....that would be frowned upon in many churches. (How dare we have a good time while we worship God...it must be very serious business.)

It really goes to show that our priorities are out of whack, when the best thing we can find to do is pick apart and analyze how others are choosing to worship God. (I'm not referring to you, Sherri...just in general, it seems to be an issue.)

[Ronzo]

It really goes to show that our priorities are out of whack, when the best thing we can find to do is pick apart and analyze how others are choosing to worship God.

Pretty telling...

When societies reach their 'peak' they tend to implode by infighting and nitpicking...

[Sherri]

Been trying to get Sherri to come over and run the aisles with me..ha....Sis. Jan, I'd be right behind you!! Nobody in Brazil would know I was supposed to be the dignified pastor's wife.:killinme

[Sister Alvear]

I just like to tease Sherri...on the serious side I do love worship and worship we do! Sometimes for hours...Sunday we had people over at our church by 3 and it was almost 9 when service got over...the real starting time is 5...We had such a wonderful service and baptized 15 in the precious name of Jesus.

[Sister Alvear]

Got to practice that dance over here! I love it!

[Sherri]

I just like to tease Sherri...on the serious side I do love worship and worship we do! Sometimes for hours...Sunday we had people over at our church by 3 and it was almost 9 when service got over...the real starting time is 5...We had such a wonderful service and baptized 15 in the precious name of Jesus.
That's why I love the mission field! It's the same way in Kenya; they will stay all day, and stand because there are no places to sit down. Our people would never stand for that many hours, especially in a mud church.

[Sister Alvear]

My SS kids practiced their sign language songs tonight...

[tamor]

That's why I love the mission field! It's the same way in Kenya; they will stay all day, and stand because there are no places to sit down. Our people would never stand for that many hours, especially in a mud church.

Our people do good to stnad for 30 minutes in air conditioned churches. Americans are spoiled!

[Sister Alvear]

Why don't you folks just come on over and visit and we will have a time!

[Sister Alvear]

Sadly...that is so true...Americans have so much. They are so blessed and most don't even know it...

[Ronzo]

Our people do good to stnad for 30 minutes in air conditioned churches. Americans are spoiled!
When I went to Panama, I was amazed...

They had church for 3 hours... in 100 degree heat in 100% humidty... no A/C... and it didn't phase them.

It phased me... I was dying. I never sweat so much in my life.

[HeavenlyOne]

I just watched Gateway's new choir DVD that was recorded last month in St. Louis. It is AWESOME, by the way. But I was amazed at the way things have changed in the 16 years since we left UPC. The entire choir was dancing (boogeying) to the music, and I don't mean in the Spirit. From someone who has not been around UPC music/artists much in the past 16 years, the change blew me away. Trust me, I thought the music and moves were great, but this is something we used to get criticized for - dancing around, jumping, etc. to the music beat with our eyes open and not doing the shockamoo stuff. When did this all happen???

I know the choir director personally and I think he's awesome!

I need to get me a copy of that CD.

[HeavenlyOne]

I was raised to believe that if you danced without falling over something, you were in the flesh.

If your eyes opened even once, you were in the flesh.

If you didn't go home with more bruises than you came with, you were in the flesh.

If your dancing steps were timed in any way, you were in the flesh.

Etc.........

[Felicity]

Taking into consideration all that's been said here .........

I've heard older saints talk about people responding to the moving of the Holy Ghost years back and they claim there is a big difference between a lot of what goes on in "apostolic/Pentecostal" worship today compared to back a generation or two.

You'll not convince them that a lot (not all of it of course) of what is happening today isn't a lot of hype and flesh. :)

[Sweet Pea]

You know, it always strikes me that the worship in other cultures is so different from what it is here in the states (in many cases). One video our pastor brought home from Ghana shows the women dancing around in a circle (eyes open), waving hankies, completely planned, pretty well choreographed...and no one seems to mind. Do that here in the states, and you're not "in the spirit." In many cases, children are participating and *gasp* laughing, having FUN....that would be frowned upon in many churches. (How dare we have a good time while we worship God...it must be very serious business.)

It really goes to show that our priorities are out of whack, when the best thing we can find to do is pick apart and analyze how others are choosing to worship God. (I'm not referring to you, Sherri...just in general, it seems to be an issue.)

You should visit CLC sometime.. :clap :clap:shockamoo:shockamoo:shockamoo

:heeheehee

[SoCaliUPC]

I just watched Gateway's new choir DVD that was recorded last month in St. Louis. It is AWESOME, by the way. But I was amazed at the way things have changed in the 16 years since we left UPC. The entire choir was dancing (boogeying) to the music, and I don't mean in the Spirit. From someone who has not been around UPC music/artists much in the past 16 years, the change blew me away. Trust me, I thought the music and moves were great, but this is something we used to get criticized for - dancing around, jumping, etc. to the music beat with our eyes open and not doing the shockamoo stuff. When did this all happen???

"When the Spirit of the Lord....comes upon my heart....I will DANCE like David danced........"

(just be thankful they did not dance in the nude!!!)

[SISTER Murphy]

"When the Spirit of the Lord....comes upon my heart....I will DANCE like David danced........"

(just be thankful they did not dance in the nude!!!)

I have had more than one pastor (here in the formerly 'stuffy' NW) who did not allow that song, nor any others that were sung/played in a minor key. It was some weird traditional thing that I never did hear a good explanation for: the best I ever heard was that they were 'too mournful'. Now, thank God, we can sing and play and worship to these songs!!! As a supplemental musician and a praise singer, I love it!

[Hoovie]

My wife was there at the filming of this DVD and said it was all good and professionally created.

Glad to see you EXers are approving of the UPC! :highfive

I am not much of a dancer myself - but prefer "moving with the music" over uninhibited shockamoooo.:bubble

[tamor]

"When the Spirit of the Lord....comes upon my heart....I will DANCE like David danced........"

(just be thankful they did not dance in the nude!!!)

Amen!! :highfive

[Sister Alvear]

Good point....

[Theresa]

I guess the UPC isnt the only group "progressing"

I attended sunday morning service in a baptist church in Alabama sunday...not only did they clap to a fast song, they STOOD UP - unsolicited.

of course there was no running the aisles or hands in the air, but they clapped and got on their feet...

[Digging4Truth]

My wife was there at the filming of this DVD and said it was all good and professionally created.

Glad to see you EXers are approving of the UPC! :highfive

I am not much of a dancer myself - but prefer "moving with the music" over uninhibited shockamoooo.:bubble

So you think it was better than a good ole barn raisin'? :)

[Hoovie]

So you think it was better than a good ole barn raisin'? :)

Me? I didn't go. Barn raisings are way cool though, and are often a "Spiritual" event too.

[Praxeas]

Was someone trying to suggest David danced in the nude?

[Praxeas]

I just watched Gateway's new choir DVD that was recorded last month in St. Louis. It is AWESOME, by the way. But I was amazed at the way things have changed in the 16 years since we left UPC. The entire choir was dancing (boogeying) to the music, and I don't mean in the Spirit. From someone who has not been around UPC music/artists much in the past 16 years, the change blew me away. Trust me, I thought the music and moves were great, but this is something we used to get criticized for - dancing around, jumping, etc. to the music beat with our eyes open and not doing the shockamoo stuff. When did this all happen???
They do that on TBN too. That Judy chick sings that song "No one like Jehovah" and has a bunch of teen agers all dressed in black standing behind her and all they do is jump up and down and dance from the moment she starts

[Hoovie]

Was someone trying to suggest David danced in the nude?

Some think he was not nude. but there was a prophet that went nude for a period of time right? Whats up with that?

[Praxeas]

Some think he was not nude. but there was a prophet that went nude for a period of time right? Whats up with that?

2Sa 6:14 And David danced before the LORD with all his might. And David was wearing a linen ephod.

[SoCaliUPC]

They do that on TBN too. That Judy chick sings that song "No one like Jehovah" and has a bunch of teen agers all dressed in black standing behind her and all they do is jump up and down and dance from the moment she starts

That group.......I am sure they are sincere....but, I just have a feeling about them.

[MrsMcD]

They do that on TBN too. That Judy chick sings that song "No one like Jehovah" and has a bunch of teen agers all dressed in black standing behind her and all they do is jump up and down and dance from the moment she starts

I think the teen-agers look ridiculous. To me it looks like they are dancing instead of worshiping. jmho

[tamor]

They do that on TBN too. That Judy chick sings that song "No one like Jehovah" and has a bunch of teen agers all dressed in black standing behind her and all they do is jump up and down and dance from the moment she starts

I haven't seen this but I'm going to take a guess. Are you talking about Judy Jacobs and the song "Days of Elijah"?

[berkeley]

I haven't seen this but I'm going to take a guess. Are you talking about Judy Jacobs and the song "Days of Elijah"?

Judy Jacobs.... that is her

[Digging4Truth]

Is someone going to post some of this on youtube or something?

[tamor]

Judy Jacobs.... that is her

Would the teenagers be part of Karen Wheaton's group, Chosen?

[HeavenlyOne]

2Sa 6:14 And David danced before the LORD with all his might. And David was wearing a linen ephod.

Ok, so he was almost naked.

[berkeley]

Would the teenagers be part of Karen Wheaton's group, Chosen?

I believe so. It is so lame.. kinda sad, too. It's not very genuine or inspired.

[Hoovie]

Ok, so he was almost naked.

You don't think the ephod "girded up his loins"? :killinme:killinme

[tamor]

I believe so. It is so lame.. kinda sad, too. It's not very genuine or inspired.


Are you talking about Judy or Chosen?

I love Judy Jacobs. And both my girls have been to Karen Wheaton's youth services in Alabama and they like them. Why do y'all see them as lame?

[berkeley]

Are you talking about Judy or Chosen?

I love Judy Jacobs. And both my girls have been to Karen Wheaton's youth services in Alabama and they like them. Why do y'all see them as lame?

The kids dancing... it's very programmed. They get an A for effort. Maybe I'm too old school. I dunno.

[Sherri]

The kids dancing... it's very programmed. They get an A for effort. Maybe I'm too old school. I dunno.
I was at a UPC church a couple years ago close to me, and the kids from that church all dressed alike and did Karen Wheaton's song and dance, exactly like the DVD she put out. It was powerful, but I was a little surprised.

I can't remember the name of the song. Tamor, it's the one we did in Adamsville a couple times that Lynn and about 40 people did.

[berkeley]

I was at a UPC church a couple years ago close to me, and the kids from that church all dressed alike and did Karen Wheaton's song and dance, exactly like the DVD she put out. It was powerful, but I was a little surprised.

I can't remember the name of the song. Tamor, it's the one we did in Adamsville a couple times that Lynn and about 40 people did.

That's cool. I am kinda old school.. but I'm coming around.. lol

[Sherri]

That's cool. I am kinda old school.. but I'm coming around.. lol
Man, you're way too YOUNG to be old school. I'm 50 and I'm not old school!! I refuse to be anything with the word old in it.

[berkeley]

Man, you're way too YOUNG to be old school. I'm 50 and I'm not old school!! I refuse to be anything with the word old in it.

hey.. hey.. ultra con here.. sorta.. well.. not really so much anymore.. I said I'm coming around.. give a guy a break!!!

[tamor]

I was at a UPC church a couple years ago close to me, and the kids from that church all dressed alike and did Karen Wheaton's song and dance, exactly like the DVD she put out. It was powerful, but I was a little surprised.

I can't remember the name of the song. Tamor, it's the one we did in Adamsville a couple times that Lynn and about 40 people did.


Behold the Lamb? We signed that song. Yeah, I was in that both times. Very powerful. I thought y'all were in Jackson by then. Have you seen us perform that one?

[ABIgrad]

I don't even know; my brother was down and it was recorded at this church. They had not seen it either until we watched it together. When I was at his church dedication in March, the Gateway choir sang there. They are really good! I think Gateway is kind of the "Bible college of Choice" at the present. You know how it kind of goes in cycles.

THE CD/DVD is called "STAND." Most of the songs on the recording were wrote by students. I too was at the recording, and it was awesome. The chorale was truly anointed and at one point the worship wa so strong, that there were no musicians left on their instruments, or anyone left to sing. :happydance I have never witnessed this at any other Bible college recordings...for quite a while...maybe way back in the JCM days. : ) I am impressed with the music program @ Gateway, they rock!

[Cindy]

That's why I love the mission field! It's the same way in Kenya; they will stay all day, and stand because there are no places to sit down. Our people would never stand for that many hours, especially in a mud church.

I have a friend that went to Africa for a month. He said when he went to bed the first night it was quiet. After a little while the man in the next bed started speaking and he couldn't understand most of it but he heard Jesus name spoken. The next day he asked if the man was talking in his sleep, someone told him no. He was praying, praying in his sleep. Pray without ceasing was taken to heart.

[Cindy]

They do that on TBN too. That Judy chick sings that song "No one like Jehovah" and has a bunch of teen agers all dressed in black standing behind her and all they do is jump up and down and dance from the moment she starts

That is kind of scary to me, I don't know why but it just is. They dance like the kids do at the raves or whatever you call them. Down in the mosh pit thingy. Mostly goth I think.

[Cindy]

Would the teenagers be part of Karen Wheaton's group, Chosen?

Yes at The Ramp.

[ogatt]

im not shocked!!! i saw it coming in the 60's electric guitars, drums PA systems. Gettin everybody boiled up.

the key is little or no music!!! that way if anybody shouts and dances it aint to no beat.

BTW what is this sign team stuff. why would they do this in a place with no deaf people, i cant read that stuff anyways.

and dowel rods. The only good they are for is fixin broke pews when sister ogatts gets too excited.

[Rev]

im not shocked!!! i saw it coming in the 60's electric guitars, drums PA systems. Gettin everybody boiled up.

the key is little or no music!!! that way if anybody shouts and dances it aint to no beat.

BTW what is this sign team stuff. why would they do this in a place with no deaf people, i cant read that stuff anyways.

and dowel rods. The only good they are for is fixin broke pews when sister ogatts gets too excited.

10/4 good buddy

[petrol]

I was in Chorale at Gateway when we first started doing Choreography....we got some looks and some churches even told us they didn't want to have us doing this at their churches, however, many more churches were really supportive and it was an amazing to thing to be in UNITY with everyone!!! The first Song we did was Hosanna off of the I am Persuaded CD....thats almost 8 years ago...

[Sister Alvear]

I like choreography if it is spiritual...

[A_PoMo]

Regarding nude David: An ephod is kinda like being in your underwear isn't it? Pretty close to nekked to me. I'm sure that nobody would want me dancing around in church in my Hanes. That much I guarantee ya. :) I guess if you want to see a nude David you could go to Italy. I hear they have a pretty cool one there.

The first time I ever saw a UPC choir to the sway stuff and any sort of choreographed stuff was the CLC Youth Choir back in the early to mid-90's. I'm not saying it never happened before, just the first time I remember seeing it outside of the predominantly black UPC churches I grew up in. Other people I know over the country said it was the first time they'd seen that in a UPC choir too. I remember it because they mentioned it. They thought it was cool too but because it was so novel at the time they mentioned it.

[tv1a]

The upci is usually 4-10 years behind the times. By the time the conservative element accepts a form of worship, it is outdated. Their music conferences are usually 2-3 years behind current trends. I would love to see the upci be the trend setter. Unfortunately in minds of many if the upci were a trendsetter, Hell would split open.

I just watched Gateway's new choir DVD that was recorded last month in St. Louis. It is AWESOME, by the way. But I was amazed at the way things have changed in the 16 years since we left UPC. The entire choir was dancing (boogeying) to the music, and I don't mean in the Spirit. From someone who has not been around UPC music/artists much in the past 16 years, the change blew me away. Trust me, I thought the music and moves were great, but this is something we used to get criticized for - dancing around, jumping, etc. to the music beat with our eyes open and not doing the shockamoo stuff. When did this all happen???

[tv1a]

Paul Baloche in his book God Songs says there was an outrcy amongst church people when a priest proposed everyone sing the song the same way. Before then it was a cacophonic mess. Everyone would sing whatever note they felt, or in some cases they didn't feel.

[TrmptPraise]

I have not had the chance to read through this whole thread so if this has been mentioned, please forgive me.

We must remember that music and dance was created as a way of worship and praise to the Lord. It was what man did with both that usually puts a thorn in our side as Apostolics. So, when I see the dance (yes in the flesh) in all honesty returning, or maybe more appropriately put, coming in full circle back to the church, I rejoice in it. I am not talking about disruptive worship that is not in tune (wow a pun) with the Spirit. I am talking about a sincere form of worship that is (IMO) Spirit lead.

I have been UPC most of my life, and I have never seen this form of dance frowned upon although I am sure it has happened in more structured, conservative circles.

I remember when the song "Turned My Mourning into Dancing" became popular. Our choir sang it and actually "choreographed" us turning in a circle on the line "You have turned..." It was a blessed song and the church responded in kind (even the platform leadership joined in *gasp*). Recently, our youth choir did the song, "I'm Taking it All Back" during Youth Week. I believe it was on the DVD Sherri is speaking of. There was some choreographed motions in that song as well. Again, the church responded. I think its important to mention that we tend to focus on a response as a indication of a response to the music rather than the message. We need to make sure we are responding to the message.....and not just the beat.

[tv1a]

People seemed to forget corporate worship in the O.T was chorerographed. Very few recorded instances of spontaneous worship. Music, dance, etc is designed to facilitate worship.

I have not had the chance to read through this whole thread so if this has been mentioned, please forgive me.

We must remember that music and dance was created as a way of worship and praise to the Lord. It was what man did with both that usually puts a thorn in our side as Apostolics. So, when I see the dance (yes in the flesh) in all honesty returning, or maybe more appropriately put, coming in full circle back to the church, I rejoice in it. I am not talking about disruptive worship that is not in tune (wow a pun) with the Spirit. I am talking about a sincere form of worship that is (IMO) Spirit lead.

I have been UPC most of my life, and I have never seen this form of dance frowned upon although I am sure it has happened in more structured, conservative circles.

I remember when the song "Turned My Mourning into Dancing" became popular. Our choir sang it and actually "choreographed" us turning in a circle on the line "You have turned..." It was a blessed song and the church responded in kind (even the platform leadership joined in *gasp*). Recently, our youth choir did the song, "I'm Taking it All Back" during Youth Week. I believe it was on the DVD Sherri is speaking of. There was some choreographed motions in that song as well. Again, the church responded. I think its important to mention that we tend to focus on a response as a indication of a response to the music rather than the message. We need to make sure we are responding to the message.....and not just the beat.

[Pressing-On]

Personally, I'm glad that we're dropping some of the ignorant ideas about what constitutes worship and what doesn't, and the attitude that you have to be mindless and half-unconscious in order to dance before the Lord or move anything beyond a hand clap.
.
Abigail,
:ursofunny That's the first post that almost made me spit on my computer screen. I am serious! I'm drinking a cup of coffee and I had to put it down!

:ursofunny

You sound like an old lady on the harp!

:ursofunny