Is Modern Christianity Too Institutional?

[Dante]

As a student of religious sociology I have been considering how far in terms of ritualism that modern Christianity is as an institution. What I mean is that we do things without giving thought to what we are doing. We have become acclimated to the ritual of being faithful attendants to church, and even speaking in tongues (to some degree) is ritualized.

Pentecostals in particular are a communal faith, and we often do things in an effort to conform to the community as a whole. For example, when one person speaks in tongues it often sets off a chain reaction of others speaking in tongues. But is it really the Holy Spirit in action, or is it a social demand for conformity within the group? That's just a tiny example. I could highlight others, but that will do.

To what degree is modern Christianity "institutionalized" and to what degree do we do things out of ritual instead of genuine reaction to the presence of the Holy Spirit?

[Praxeas]

As a student of religious sociology I have been considering how far in terms of ritualism that modern Christianity is as an institution. What I mean is that we do things without giving thought to what we are doing. We have become acclimated to the ritual of being faithful attendants to church, and even speaking in tongues (to some degree) is ritualized.

Pentecostals in particular are a communal faith, and we often do things in an effort to conform to the community as a whole. For example, when one person speaks in tongues it often sets off a chain reaction of others speaking in tongues. But is it really the Holy Spirit in action, or is it a social demand for conformity within the group? That's just a tiny example. I could highlight others, but that will do.

To what degree is modern Christianity "institutionalized" and to what degree do we do things out of ritual instead of genuine reaction to the presence of the Holy Spirit?
Have you ever considered that when that One person is speaking in tongues they are feeling something spiritual that the others can also feel?

[Dante]

Have you ever considered that when that One person is speaking in tongues they are feeling something spiritual that the others can also feel?

Often times that is not the case.

[Praxeas]

Often times that is not the case.
And you know this how? You have the new ACME spiritual tongues detecto device?

And you go around from church to church testing it?

incredible...just incredible

[Praxeas]

I just turned on my ACME "Ignorant Detecto" device so be careful. :throwrock

[Dante]

And you know this how? You have the new ACME spiritual tongues detecto device?

And you go around from church to church testing it?

incredible...just incredible

There's enough empirical evidence from other noted scholars who have studied Pentecostal groups to indict the Pentecostals as being a religion that relies on communal conformity. I don't have to exhaust myself traveling the nation, when sociologists have already published works from various parts of the country (and the world) that argue my initial point. So...there ya go!

So, in a way, yes, I do have the new ACME spiritual tongues detecto device! Good job, Mr. Watson. :)

[navygoat1998]

I just turned on my ACME "Ignorant Detecto" device so be careful. :throwrock

Did you call :nutso

[RandyWayne]

As a student of religious sociology I have been considering how far in terms of ritualism that modern Christianity is as an institution. What I mean is that we do things without giving thought to what we are doing. We have become acclimated to the ritual of being faithful attendants to church, and even speaking in tongues (to some degree) is ritualized.

Pentecostals in particular are a communal faith, and we often do things in an effort to conform to the community as a whole. For example, when one person speaks in tongues it often sets off a chain reaction of others speaking in tongues. But is it really the Holy Spirit in action, or is it a social demand for conformity within the group? That's just a tiny example. I could highlight others, but that will do.

To what degree is modern Christianity "institutionalized" and to what degree do we do things out of ritual instead of genuine reaction to the presence of the Holy Spirit?

Yes. This is why when you are in a large congregation such a conference or camp service, "moves of the spirit" moving like waves. The people react to those around them talking in tongues and getting jiggy with it. In fact, the dynamic is exactly LIKE the classic "wave" you see moving around a stadium at a football game.

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/11/14/1321272572471/Mexican-wave-at-a-footbal-007.jpg

Every true move of God I've seen (and Yes, I've seen many) effect the whole congregation -large or small, at the exact same time, and there was/is no doubt of its origin, even for a natural skeptic like me.

[Ferd]

Often times that is not the case.

LOL.

at least you are funny. I give you that.

[Praxeas]

There's enough empirical evidence from other noted scholars who have studied Pentecostal groups to indict the Pentecostals as being a religion that relies on communal conformity. I don't have to exhaust myself traveling the nation, when sociologists have already published works from various parts of the country (and the world) that argue my initial point. So...there ya go!

So, in a way, yes, I do have the new ACME spiritual tongues detecto device! Good job, Mr. Watson. :)
The issue was not 'communal conformity'. It was your assertion of one particular example of it and you know it. All anyone can do is observe that it happens and not why.

So there YOU go. Those people have no way of detecting these actions are spiritually affected. All they can do is observe it happens and make theories as to why.

[Praxeas]

Yes. This is why when you are in a large congregation such a conference or camp service, "moves of the spirit" moving like waves. The people react to those around them talking in tongues and getting jiggy with it. In fact, the dynamic is exactly LIKE the classic "wave" you see moving around a stadium at a football game.

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/11/14/1321272572471/Mexican-wave-at-a-footbal-007.jpg

Every true move of God I've seen (and Yes, I've seen many) effect the whole congregation -large or small, at the exact same time, and there was/is no doubt of its origin, even for a natural skeptic like me.

Another fallacy based on what you presumed was a 'true move of God' is a circular argument not to mention a form of the no true Scotsman fallacy

[Scott Hutchinson]

http://www.preparehisway.com/weekly_blog/view/587/institutional_christianity/

[Scott Hutchinson]

http://biblicalawakening.blogspot.com/2012/06/institutional-vs-non-institutional.html

[RandyWayne]

Another fallacy based on what you presumed was a 'true move of God' is a circular argument not to mention a form of the no true Scotsman fallacy

I knew you would bring up some sort of "fallacy!" statement. That once-a-week late night class in logic you took 5 years ago at the local tech is really paying off! LOL

[Praxeas]

I knew you would bring up some sort of "fallacy!" statement. That once-a-week late night class in logic you took 5 years ago at the local tech is really paying off! LOL
One does not have to take a class in logic to recognize one. Just use your brain :laffatu

[OneEyedFatMan]

Institutional to the point of necrosis. Irrelevant. Meaningless. It is dead. The message of Jesus Christ is totally lost among the trappings of stupid religion.

It is why I could no longer bear to be a party to the idiocy of it I wish I had a solution. I don't.

[trialedbyfire]

As a student of religious sociology I have been considering how far in terms of ritualism that modern Christianity is as an institution. What I mean is that we do things without giving thought to what we are doing. We have become acclimated to the ritual of being faithful attendants to church, and even speaking in tongues (to some degree) is ritualized.

Pentecostals in particular are a communal faith, and we often do things in an effort to conform to the community as a whole. For example, when one person speaks in tongues it often sets off a chain reaction of others speaking in tongues. But is it really the Holy Spirit in action, or is it a social demand for conformity within the group? That's just a tiny example. I could highlight others, but that will do.

To what degree is modern Christianity "institutionalized" and to what degree do we do things out of ritual instead of genuine reaction to the presence of the Holy Spirit?

It was institutionalized enough to bring a 16 year old child with a drug addict mother and nearly absent father out of sin. That's all that matters to me.:thumbsup

[Cindy]

It was institutionalized enough to bring a 16 year old child with a drug addict mother and nearly absent father out of sin. That's all that matters to me.:thumbsup

:nod

[RandyWayne]

It was institutionalized enough to bring a 16 year old child with a drug addict mother and nearly absent father out of sin. That's all that matters to me.:thumbsup

To be fair to GOD, I think it had more to do with Him than with the particular religion was at the time, which is sort of the point of the thread. :)

[Cindy]

To be fair to GOD, I think it had more to do with Him than with the particular religion was at the time, which is sort of the point of the thread. :)

But, I think he is saying someone reached out in this case. As in many others.

[trialedbyfire]

To be fair to GOD, I think it had more to do with Him than with the particular religion was at the time, which is sort of the point of the thread. :)

I'm sure. All I'm saying is I can't sit around and bash the organized and/or institutional church if it was in fact in the institutional church that I was delivered. I've seen to many people set free from bondage, seen God move to may times, to many miracles. People come against organized church all the time, I don't bother arguing, I know where God saved me, and I choose simply to stay here, in the church, with all it's problems and issues. I'll deal with them, I'm just grateful to be saved.:happydance

[Truthseeker]

Yes. This is why when you are in a large congregation such a conference or camp service, "moves of the spirit" moving like waves. The people react to those around them talking in tongues and getting jiggy with it. In fact, the dynamic is exactly LIKE the classic "wave" you see moving around a stadium at a football game.

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/11/14/1321272572471/Mexican-wave-at-a-footbal-007.jpg

Every true move of God I've seen (and Yes, I've seen many) effect the whole congregation -large or small, at the exact same time, and there was/is no doubt of its origin, even for a natural skeptic like me.

Amen!!!!

[Truthseeker]

I'm sure. All I'm saying is I can't sit around and bash the organized and/or institutional church if it was in fact in the institutional church that I was delivered. I've seen to many people set free from bondage, seen God move to may times, to many miracles. People come against organized church all the time, I don't bother arguing, I know where God saved me, and I choose simply to stay here, in the church, with all it's problems and issues. I'll deal with them, I'm just grateful to be saved.:happydance

God is so gracious. He moves even when in messed up situations or systems.