Are APOSTLIC WOMEN DOUR?

[SDG]

I know it's a blanket statement ... and of course it does not apply to all [and dourness applies to men as well]

I even remember my dad saying that many Apostolics looked like they were baptized in lemon juice.

... but from personal observation I've seen a particular dourness that prevails in some of the women in our movement.

I have made some personal observations from being an Apostolic my whole life .... and even from some the statements of vibrant Apostolic women ... including some from this forum ... Sister Alvear, Rhoni, in particular.

I think some of it may be attributed to the high demands we place on them.

They include:

1. An unbalanced demand on them to be the benchmarks of separation and holiness.

2. The 1950's model of the ideal family. Men work ... women stay in the home, cook, clean and raise the kids. Those that do work ... often come home to work a second shift. Not to forget the added responsibilities church can place on some of them.

3. Our separation has caused some to be very apathetic to those that don't fit the "mold".

Are these pressures affecting their joy???

Just thinking out loud .... let the games begin!!!!!!!

[Felicity]

My opinion is that apostolic women are no more dour and in fact many are less so than many Christian women I see, meet and speak to on a daily basis.

[Pragmatist]

I would have to disagree. There might be a few, and they are probably the ones that don't believe in standards but are in some way obligated to follow them.

[Kutless]

I think PP started a thread similar to this some time back.

I may be mistaken but I thought he used the term Feminist Nazi.

[QueenEsther]

Where I work, there are only 2 apostolic - in fact we are probably the only two "christians" here and I have to say we are the most friendly!! Everyone else is rude and hateful.

[QueenEsther]

I would have to disagree. There might be a few, and they are probably the ones that don't believe in standards but are in some way obligated to follow them.

I agree and I think it is sad. If I truly did not believe in something I wouldn't do it. WHy live unhappy?

[Pragmatist]

I don't see the 1950's model in effect in churches I've attended. Regional, perhaps?

[Theresa]

dour?

dour (dʊr, dour) pronunciation
adj., dour·er, dour·est.

1. Marked by sternness or harshness; forbidding: a dour, self-sacrificing life.
2. Silently ill-humored; gloomy: the proverbially dour New England Puritan.
3. Sternly obstinate; unyielding: a dour determination.

no - but I know of which you speak - and it's ignorance, plain and simple.

[SDG]

Sister Alvear commenting on why their are more women that complain about spiritual abuse:

and the reason would be some men ( I am not down on men) are so overbearing and hard on their wife she ends up with such hidden anger and hurt...
Have you noticed there are so many divorces and people that are not happy (ministers and their wives)
Lots of God's ladies talk to me...We really need help in Pentecostal circles. We need lots of counsel from the wise...

[SDG]

Other thoughts from Mother Alvear:

Some things I would not say on this forum but ladies need strong UNDERSTANDING husbands... How can some be kind to everybody in church and be so hurtful to the one that loves them the most? It happens...I know I counsel lots of women. There is an unheard cry in our mists...

Dan, some men are so hard on their wives they turn them against standards. Some men are kind to everyone except their wife and she becomes his slave. Whether we want to admit it or not there are a lot of issues that need to be dealt with in our Pentecostal world. Lots of ladies talk to me in meetings some of my closest friends have walked away from it all...I just feel our homes are so important to the Lord...

[chaotic_resolve]

I haven't noticed too many where I go to church. There's one or two I know of, but their dour'ness is mostly a personal grudge against me. :lol

[Ferd]

my apostolic woman wife is a hotie.

[Ferd]

mabe this is a good reason for liberal churchs. that way your apostolic women can look dour without looking apostolic and thereby not causing reproach upon the Lords Church?

[SDG]

mabe this is a good reason for liberal churchs. that way your apostolic women can look dour without looking apostolic and thereby not causing reproach upon the Lords Church?

You seem to be just focusing on the outward on this issue ... standards is part of the equation .... but do some of our male-dominant conservative views on the home add to the consternation some are feeling????

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Definitions of dour on the Web:
s. A foray, or a hasty expedition of any kind. H. daur, ‘a run.’ Also to dour, ‘to run,’ or ‘to make such an expedition.’
www.bibliomania.com/2/3/260/1271/19991/1.html

(http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=0&oi=define&q=http://www.bibliomania.com/2/3/260/1271/19991/1.html&usg=AFQjCNF6blNbsZ06VxZMQ4qQkUHrsjvFwQ)dogged: stubbornly unyielding; "dogged persistence"; "dour determination"; "the most vocal and pertinacious of all the critics"; "a mind not gifted to discover truth but tenacious to hold it"- T.S.Eliot; "men tenacious of opinion"


harshly uninviting or formidable in manner or appearance; "a dour, self-sacrificing life"; "a forbidding scowl"; "a grim man loving duty more than humanity"; "undoubtedly the grimmest part of him was his iron claw"- J.M.Barrie


dark: showing a brooding ill humor; "a dark scowl"; "the proverbially dour New England Puritan"; "a glum, hopeless shrug"; "he sat in moody silence"; "a morose and unsociable manner"; "a saturnine, almost misanthropic young genius"- Bruce Bliven; "a sour temper"; "a sullen crowd"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=1&oi=define&q=http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn%3Fs%3Ddour&usg=AFQjCNH6SBXzVzp89Srje-DYOgz4VESNZg)

[Ronzo]

mabe this is a good reason for liberal churchs. that way your apostolic women can look dour without looking apostolic and thereby not causing reproach upon the Lords Church?


Medicine talking again, Ferd?

Or did you not read his initial post where he said SOME apostolic women and not ALL? ...and even included quotes form a REAL Apostolic woman, Sis Alvear, where she made the same observations?

[SDG]

Definitions of dour on the Web:
s. A foray, or a hasty expedition of any kind. H. daur, ‘a run.’ Also to dour, ‘to run,’ or ‘to make such an expedition.’
www.bibliomania.com/2/3/260/1271/19991/1.html

(http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=0&oi=define&q=http://www.bibliomania.com/2/3/260/1271/19991/1.html&usg=AFQjCNF6blNbsZ06VxZMQ4qQkUHrsjvFwQ)dogged: stubbornly unyielding; "dogged persistence"; "dour determination"; "the most vocal and pertinacious of all the critics"; "a mind not gifted to discover truth but tenacious to hold it"- T.S.Eliot; "men tenacious of opinion"


harshly uninviting or formidable in manner or appearance; "a dour, self-sacrificing life"; "a forbidding scowl"; "a grim man loving duty more than humanity"; "undoubtedly the grimmest part of him was his iron claw"- J.M.Barrie


dark: showing a brooding ill humor; "a dark scowl"; "the proverbially dour New England Puritan"; "a glum, hopeless shrug"; "he sat in moody silence"; "a morose and unsociable manner"; "a saturnine, almost misanthropic young genius"- Bruce Bliven; "a sour temper"; "a sullen crowd"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=1&oi=define&q=http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn%3Fs%3Ddour&usg=AFQjCNH6SBXzVzp89Srje-DYOgz4VESNZg)


This image comes to mind:

http://www.ozdachs.com/enews/images/puritanWoman.jpg

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

This image comes to mind:

http://www.ozdachs.com/enews/images/puritanWoman.jpg

Maybe Emma can help us here next time she is at the neighbors house who have electricity and a computer. :heeheehee

[Felicity]

Medicine talking again, Ferd?

Or did you not read his initial post where he said SOME apostolic women and not ALL? ...and even included quotes form a REAL Apostolic woman, Sis Alvear, where she made the same observations?Some are dour looking but I don't see why they're singled out when many other women - Christian or not - are also dour looking. I've served a few of them already today and they're NOT apostolic.

So what's the point really?

[rgcraig]

dour?

dour (dʊr, dour) pronunciation
adj., dour·er, dour·est.

1. Marked by sternness or harshness; forbidding: a dour, self-sacrificing life.
2. Silently ill-humored; gloomy: the proverbially dour New England Puritan.
3. Sternly obstinate; unyielding: a dour determination.

no - but I know of which you speak - and it's ignorance, plain and simple.

Sometimes, the look is one of self-righteousness.

[SDG]

Sometimes, the look is one of self-righteousness.

I would tend to agree ... by placing them on the holiness pedestal ... some think they've got it cornered.

[rgcraig]

Some are dour looking but I don't see why they're singled out when many other women - Christian or not - are also dour looking. I've served a few of them already today and they're NOT apostolic.

So what's the point really?
I think the point is if we have the Holy Ghost living inside of us which equates to the "joy of the Lord", then we should show it.

I don't think we are addressing times when folks are sad due to circumstances, or just having a bad day either.

The ones that I've had the most contact with are just sour people that most the time have a chip on their shoulder or are self-righteous and we can fuss about this all day long, but those folks are out there.

I just had an encounter with one a few weeks back and it was UNREAL. She was just down right MEAN looking and stared at me like I was satan himself and this was in a UPC church. The problem was I didn't "look" the part yet I knew the whole church and everyone was greeting me and she didn't like it.

I made it a point to smile at her and say hello and the woman looked at me and turned around and walked the other way down the aisle. I even told her she sang beautifully and she grunted in my general direction.

Later that evening I asked what the deal was and they said she was always like that, so I didn't take it personal. Found out she was a preacher's wife and that REALLY floored me.

[Ferd]

You seem to be just focusing on the outward on this issue ... standards is part of the equation .... but do some of our male-dominant conservative views on the home add to the consternation some are feeling????

well. Daniel, I am at a loss. I suppose that in some parts of the OP movement there is a male-dominant conservitive view....buuuuut

My mom owns her own business
Sister 1 is the traffic manager responsible for all adds her company airs across the nation on all forms of meida. she is single and the Sunday School superintendant at my church.
Sister 2 is VP of human resources and a senior director for the company company she works for and the secretary at our church and is in all the board meetings and such.

Sister 3 doesnt go to church so she doent count in this particular discussion but if you pulled some kind of "male dominant" what ever on her you just might get kicked.

My wife works a full time job and I cook... I will not wash clothes or dust but she doent often fold clothes and NEVER washes the dishes...so, I am not personally familiar with what you speak of.

I do however lament the feminization of the American man (i may cook but I aint no girl).

[SDG]

well. Daniel, I am at a loss. I suppose that in some parts of the OP movement there is a male-dominant conservitive view....buuuuut

My mom owns her own business
Sister 1 is the traffic manager responsible for all adds her company airs across the nation on all forms of meida. she is single and the Sunday School superintendant at my church.
Sister 2 is VP of human resources and a senior director for the company company she works for and the secretary at our church and is in all the board meetings and such.

Sister 3 doesnt go to church so she doent count in this particular discussion but if you pulled some kind of "male dominant" what ever on her you just might get kicked.

My wife works a full time job and I cook... I will not wash clothes or dust but she doent often fold clothes and NEVER washes the dishes...so, I am not personally familiar with what you speak of.

I do however lament the feminization of the American man (i may cook but I aint no girl).

How does cooking make you less masculine ... Ferd ... LOL .. Please enlighten us ...:laffatu

[Theresa]

I didn't "look" the part yet

you keep trying sister, you'll come around :D









:lol:lol:lol:killinme:killinme:heeheehee:heeheehee

[Ferd]

How does cooking make you less masculine ... Ferd ... LOL .. Please enlighten us ...:laffatu

it doesnt....is that all you got out of that post? good grief.

[Nahum]

I categorically reject the notion that Apostolics are male-dominated. In fact, I see the opposite as truth. More and more, I see Apostolic women who want to rule the world and their husbands, and the pastor, and their entire church. Their goal is not equality, it is superiority. Are these women dour? I suppose so. Stepping outside of God's plan for the family normally leads to unhappiness.

The thing I notice is a move toward flashing skin, dominance, and male bashing. Very few women act lady-like nowadays.

[ManOfWord]

I know it's a blanket statement ... and of course it does not apply to all [and dourness applies to men as well]

I even remember my dad saying that many Apostolics looked like they were baptized in lemon juice.

... but from personal observation I've seen a particular dourness that prevails in some of the women in our movement.

I have made some personal observations from being an Apostolic my whole life .... and even from some the statements of vibrant Apostolic women ... including some from this forum ... Sister Alvear, Rhoni, in particular.

I think some of it may be attributed to the high demands we place on them.

They include:

1. An unbalanced demand on them to be the benchmarks of separation and holiness.

2. The 1950's model of the ideal family. Men work ... women stay in the home, cook, clean and raise the kids. Those that do work ... often come home to work a second shift. Not to forget the added responsibilities church can place on some of them.

3. Our separation has caused some to be very apathetic to those that don't fit the "mold".

Are these pressures affecting their joy???

Just thinking out loud .... let the games begin!!!!!!!


Some sure are. But so are some men for that matter!!!

[Ferd]

I categorically reject the notion that Apostolics are male-dominated. In fact, I see the opposite as truth. More and more, I see Apostolic women who want to rule the world and their husbands, and the pastor, and their entire church. Their goal is not equality, it is superiority. Are these women dour? I suppose so. Stepping outside of God's plan for the family normally leads to unhappiness.

The thing I notice is a move toward flashing skin, dominance, and male bashing. Very few women act lady-like nowadays.

Now that you bring up this subject.... the sister in law of one of the UPCIs greatest prince's was both the most dour woman I ever knew AND the most domineering woman I ever knew.

her only son will have nothing to do with her.

she nearly single handedly split a church in half

she sued in court so she could get control of the finances of a church

all this while looking like she was sucking on a bitter lemon.

[Ferd]

Some sure are. But so are some men for that matter!!!

I just walked thru my office area. (not a church by the way) looked at several women. there were some dour faces up here....they wuz all wearing pants but they wuznt boys.

[Ronzo]

Some are dour looking but I don't see why they're singled out when many other women - Christian or not - are also dour looking. I've served a few of them already today and they're NOT apostolic.

So what's the point really?
I didn't write the post or start the thread, so maybe Dannyboy can answer that.

I was just pointing out some facts. Not giving any insight into the thought process behind the thread being started to begin with.

:)

[Ferd]

Felicity isnt the point that the UPCI is evil?

[Hoovie]

I know it's a blanket statement ... and of course it does not apply to all [and dourness applies to men as well]

I even remember my dad saying that many Apostolics looked like they were baptized in lemon juice.

... but from personal observation I've seen a particular dourness that prevails in some of the women in our movement.

I have made some personal observations from being an Apostolic my whole life .... and even from some the statements of vibrant Apostolic women ... including some from this forum ... Sister Alvear, Rhoni, in particular.

I think some of it may be attributed to the high demands we place on them.

They include:

1. An unbalanced demand on them to be the benchmarks of separation and holiness.

2. The 1950's model of the ideal family. Men work ... women stay in the home, cook, clean and raise the kids. Those that do work ... often come home to work a second shift. Not to forget the added responsibilities church can place on some of them.

3. Our separation has caused some to be very apathetic to those that don't fit the "mold".

Are these pressures affecting their joy???

Just thinking out loud .... let the games begin!!!!!!!

I have not read the thread.... but, my conservative Pentecostal wife is one of the most fun and happy people I have known. While we do have some disagreements and I am sure she has her days... I think she is far above average as an optimistic woman.

[rgcraig]

well. Daniel, I am at a loss. I suppose that in some parts of the OP movement there is a male-dominant conservitive view....buuuuut

My mom owns her own business
Sister 1 is the traffic manager responsible for all adds her company airs across the nation on all forms of meida. she is single and the Sunday School superintendant at my church.
Sister 2 is VP of human resources and a senior director for the company company she works for and the secretary at our church and is in all the board meetings and such.

Sister 3 doesnt go to church so she doent count in this particular discussion but if you pulled some kind of "male dominant" what ever on her you just might get kicked.

My wife works a full time job and I cook... I will not wash clothes or dust but she doent often fold clothes and NEVER washes the dishes...so, I am not personally familiar with what you speak of.

I do however lament the feminization of the American man (i may cook but I aint no girl).

Well, there's the difference - - - she has ever right to SMILE!!!! Plus, you adore here and she knows that!

I do not feel that there are that many icky people, but there's no doubt in my mind either that they are there and most choose to be that way.

Your family and your sweet little wife choose NOT to be that way!!!!!

[rgcraig]

you keep trying sister, you'll come around :D









:lol:lol:lol:killinme:killinme:heeheehee:heeheehee

My SHOES do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sherri]

Yes, there are some dour, unhappy Pentecostal women. But there are some unhappy Catholic women too, or just heathen women. Some people are just not happy campers. But I know a lot of Apostolic women and most of them are very happy people. In fact, some of them are a hoot! Lots of fun!

[rgcraig]

I just walked thru my office area. (not a church by the way) looked at several women. there were some dour faces up here....they wuz all wearing pants but they wuznt boys.
LOL....you are too funny!

[Felicity]

I waited on a couple VERY dour looking women a few minutes ago. I tried my best to get them to smile but .......... no deal! :heeheehee

(They weren't apostolic by the way ;))

[Felicity]

I didn't write the post or start the thread, so maybe Dannyboy can answer that.

I was just pointing out some facts. Not giving any insight into the thought process behind the thread being started to begin with.

:) I know! :lol I quoted you because I was going to ask you something in relation to what you said but then I got sidetracked and now I can't remember what it was unless I go back and look and I don't want to take the time to do that because I'm starved, going on break and expecting a phone call in a few.

:)

[Hegavmelif]

I categorically reject the notion that Apostolics are male-dominated. In fact, I see the opposite as truth. More and more, I see Apostolic women who want to rule the world and their husbands, and the pastor, and their entire church. Their goal is not equality, it is superiority. Are these women dour? I suppose so. Stepping outside of God's plan for the family normally leads to unhappiness.

The thing I notice is a move toward flashing skin, dominance, and male bashing. Very few women act lady-like nowadays.

TRUE... TRUE... TRUE... My wife and I were discussing the very context of you post recently. She said to me, "She felt that women had just become to weak and were not praying like they ought to." She went on to say that so many of the women that she talks to do not pray and that the first person they attack is their husband. We all have faults and shortcoming. WE must learn to pray and love and forgive... all of which begin in the home!! I know you agree.

[rgcraig]

Felicity isnt the point that the UPCI is evil?

No, that's not the point, I don't think at all.

My point, which could be completely different than Daniel's is that there are some very sour people (not just ladies) out there and the ones that I have come in contact with or usually the ones that are self-righteous and think they are better than you.

They choose to be that way and it has nothing to do with them not wearing makeup or pants.

The lady you described sueing for the finances in the church is the kind I'm talking about and anyone trying to say they aren't there are just fooling themselves.

I do not think it's a male-dominated world either (UPC). I DO believe women are bolder in the church now than they ever have been and I have seen some very "weak" men in the church tool.

Wow......not sure where all that came from or that you all wanted to hear it, but I said it.

[philjones]

I know it's a blanket statement ... and of course it does not apply to all [and dourness applies to men as well]

I even remember my dad saying that many Apostolics looked like they were baptized in lemon juice.

... but from personal observation I've seen a particular dourness that prevails in some of the women in our movement.

I have made some personal observations from being an Apostolic my whole life .... and even from some the statements of vibrant Apostolic women ... including some from this forum ... Sister Alvear, Rhoni, in particular.

I think some of it may be attributed to the high demands we place on them.

They include:

1. An unbalanced demand on them to be the benchmarks of separation and holiness.

2. The 1950's model of the ideal family. Men work ... women stay in the home, cook, clean and raise the kids. Those that do work ... often come home to work a second shift. Not to forget the added responsibilities church can place on some of them.

3. Our separation has caused some to be very apathetic to those that don't fit the "mold".

Are these pressures affecting their joy???

Just thinking out loud .... let the games begin!!!!!!!

Dan,

I will only comment on number two and your assertion that our model is a 1950's model.... I believe it is much older than that and the flaw is in the post 1950's model not the pre-1950 God instituted model of divine order.

Just my 2 cents!:haloplug

[Theresa]

TRUE... TRUE... TRUE... My wife and I were discussing the very context of you post recently. She said to me, "She felt that women had just become to weak and were not praying like they ought to." She went on to say that so many of the women that she talks to do not pray and that the first person they attack is their husband. We all have faults and shortcoming. WE must learn to pray and love and forgive... all of which begin in the home!! I know you agree.

and why not?

I'm sure he deserves it



ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:heeheehee:lol:lol:killin me:killinme

[rgcraig]

Dan,

I will only comment on number two and your assertion that our model is a 1950's model.... I believe it is much older than that and the flaw is in the post 1950's model not the pre-1950 God instituted model of divine order.

Just my 2 cents!:haloplug

So glad I was born in the '50's!

[rgcraig]

and why not?

I'm sure he deserves it



ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:heeheehee:lol:lol:killin me:killinmeOh lord, we've got Ferd and Theresa in the same thread talking about this!!!!!

Watch OUT!!!!

[philjones]

You seem to be just focusing on the outward on this issue ... standards is part of the equation .... but do some of our male-dominant conservative views on the home add to the consternation some are feeling????

hogwash and hooey! Most women will tell you that there is nothing better than being taken care of by a loving Godly husband. The perfect place for a woman is under the protection and provision of her husband who loves her as Christ loved the church, just like the perfect place for a Christian is under the protection and provision of Jesus. The problem in our society is that the "empowerment of women" (whether as the result of incompetent men, social peer pressure, or a rebellious spirit among the ladies) has been the disemboweling of our social structure and has resulted in this dourness you speak of.

Now let the fun begin!:lol

[Hegavmelif]

and why not?

I'm sure he deserves it



ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:heeheehee:lol:lol:killin me:killinme

No one deserves to be attacked Sister - especially by their spouse. The devil throws enough darts at us like it is. We should work toward understanding each other and praying together - not attacking each. Even if you meant that in humor, it is obvious you would not have found the humor if the shoe had been on the other foot.

[philjones]

So glad I was born in the '50's!

Read my last post and tell me that if you had a man who was willing to love you and provide for you in the same completeness that Jesus has provided for your soul that you would not flourish and relish that kind of a covering!

[rgcraig]

hogwash and hooey! Most women will tell you that there is nothing better than being taken care of by a loving Godly husband. The perfect place for a woman is under the protection and provision of her husband who loves her as Christ loved the church, just like the perfect place for a Christian is under the protection and provision of Jesus. The problem in our society is that the "empowerment of women" (whether as the result of incompetent men, social peer pressure, or a rebellious spirit among the ladies) has been the disemboweling of our social structure and has resulted in this dourness you speak of.

Now let the fun begin!:lol
Couldn't agree with you more!

[philjones]

Couldn't agree with you more!

your answer beat my post!:killinme:killinme

[Hegavmelif]

Read my last post and tell me that if you had a man who was willing to love you and provide for you in the same completeness that Jesus has provided for your soul that you would not flourish and relish that kind of a covering!

I couldn't agree more!!

[rgcraig]

Read my last post and tell me that if you had a man who was willing to love you and provide for you in the same completeness that Jesus has provided for your soul that you would not flourish and relish that kind of a covering!
I read the post before I read this!

I so absolutely agree!!!!! Nothing I wanted more in my life and thought I had - it all just changed the day after the wedding.

I am the (strive to be) perfect submissive wife and thank God I was or I wouldn't have made it as far as I did. I wouldn't know what it was like to be looked at and adored and I would love to experience that before I die.

I must have sip a bit of truth gas today - I'm just spouting out my deepest darkest secrets!!!! :sing

[SDG]

Felicity isn't the point that the UPCI is evil?

I challenge you to find any mention of the UPCI ... in my original post ... the world does not revolve around you're circle .... Ferd ... sorry ....

[Sherri]

I read the post before I read this!

I so absolutely agree!!!!! Nothing I wanted more in my life and thought I had - it all just changed the day after the wedding.

I am the perfect submissive wife and thank God I was or I wouldn't have made it as far as I did. I wouldn't know what it was like to be looked at and adored and I would love to experience that before I die.
I must have sip a bit of truth gas today - I'm just spouting out my deepest darkest secrets!!!! :sing
Praying for this, my friend!

[rgcraig]

Praying for this, my friend!

Crying now, my friend.

[SDG]

Crying now, my friend.

You deserve happiness Renda ..... Hoping w/ you ....

[philjones]

I read the post before I read this!

I so absolutely agree!!!!! Nothing I wanted more in my life and thought I had - it all just changed the day after the wedding.

I am the (strive to be) perfect submissive wife and thank God I was or I wouldn't have made it as far as I did. I wouldn't know what it was like to be looked at and adored and I would love to experience that before I die.

I must have sip a bit of truth gas today - I'm just spouting out my deepest darkest secrets!!!! :sing

Certainly there is a man out there with wisdom who will see the you that is and react in wisdom to let you know how special you are to him.

Lord, you know where this dude is at.. please hook he and Renda up in the next few weeks before she kicks the bucket.. and Lord, I am serious about this in spite of my attempt to be humorous and light! I know it IS YOUR WILL AND PLAN, JESUS!

[rgcraig]

You deserve happiness Renda ..... Hoping w/ you ....
Everyone does - thanks!

[rgcraig]

Certainly there is a man out there with wisdom who will see the you that is and react in wisdom to let you know how special you are to him.

Lord, you know where this dude is at.. please hook he and Renda up in the next few weeks before she kicks the bucket.. and Lord, I am serious about this in spite of my attempt to be humorous and light! I know it IS YOUR WILL AND PLAN, JESUS!

LOL! I want better than a dude......

I hate when I get honest for all to see.

[SDG]

LOL!

I hate when I get honest for all to see.

If we were all little bit more transparent .....

[philjones]

LOL! I want better than a dude......

I hate when I get honest for all to see.

Why would you feel that way? You are a fave on this board and everyone is interested in your heart as much as your head!

I, for one, appreciate your restraint and wisdom in most cases. In this case I appreciate your openness and honesty! It helps one to know how to pray!:highfive

[rgcraig]

Why would you feel that way? You are a fave on this board and everyone is interested in your heart as much as your head!

I, for one, appreciate your restraint and wisdom in most cases. In this case I appreciate your openness and honesty! It helps one to know how to pray!:highfive

Thanks.....:highfive

[CupCake]

I know it's a blanket statement ... and of course it does not apply to all [and dourness applies to men as well]

I even remember my dad saying that many Apostolics looked like they were baptized in lemon juice.

... but from personal observation I've seen a particular dourness that prevails in some of the women in our movement.

I have made some personal observations from being an Apostolic my whole life .... and even from some the statements of vibrant Apostolic women ... including some from this forum ... Sister Alvear, Rhoni, in particular.

I think some of it may be attributed to the high demands we place on them.

They include:

1. An unbalanced demand on them to be the benchmarks of separation and holiness.

2. The 1950's model of the ideal family. Men work ... women stay in the home, cook, clean and raise the kids. Those that do work ... often come home to work a second shift. Not to forget the added responsibilities church can place on some of them.

3. Our separation has caused some to be very apathetic to those that don't fit the "mold".

Are these pressures affecting their joy???

Just thinking out loud .... let the games begin!!!!!!!

Well as they say, the inward will show on the outward...;)

But overall I agree with you, I have many pic of me during them days, and I look wipe out and sad, no joy. In fact the whole family look dead,,,, :bubble

[Ferd]

I challenge you to find any mention of the UPCI ... in my original post ... the world does not revolve around you're circle .... Ferd ... sorry ....

right! if i were to edit, i would say "OP" Movement.


actually Dan, i was just sharp sticking you. it wasnt a valid argument on my part....


but I do wonder if you have not been feminized by the social progressives (as bill o'riley likes to call them)

[SDG]

right! if i were to edit, i would say "OP" Movement.


actually Dan, i was just sharp sticking you. it wasnt a valid argument on my part....


but I do wonder if you have not been feminized by the social progressives (as bill o'riley likes to call them)

I'd love to see you in an apron ....

[Ferd]

Praying for this, my friend!

me too. :(

[Ferd]

I'd love to see you in an apron ....

I DONT WEAR ONE! LOL!

[Ferd]

No, that's not the point, I don't think at all.

My point, which could be completely different than Daniel's is that there are some very sour people (not just ladies) out there and the ones that I have come in contact with or usually the ones that are self-righteous and think they are better than you.

They choose to be that way and it has nothing to do with them not wearing makeup or pants.

The lady you described sueing for the finances in the church is the kind I'm talking about and anyone trying to say they aren't there are just fooling themselves.

I do not think it's a male-dominated world either (UPC). I DO believe women are bolder in the church now than they ever have been and I have seen some very "weak" men in the church tool.

Wow......not sure where all that came from or that you all wanted to hear it, but I said it.
we agree for the most part. i was just poking daniel to see if he would yelp. (I need to be better)

[Thumper]

Another example of the high quality thinking that goes on around here

[Ferd]

Another example of the high quality thinking that goes on around here

what? you want to see me in an apron too?


you wanna fight or something?

[SDG]

Another example of the high quality thinking that goes on around here

Another example of the condescension and pretentiousness of another compassionate hit and run post.

[Thumper]

what? you want to see me in an apron too?


you wanna fight or something?


Sorry bro,

I meant the whole premise of this thread. Your apron wearing not withstanding

[Nahum]

Renda, I can tell you that you are an awesome person, and highly valued in the eyes of the Lord. He's not gonna leave you alone! Bank on it!

[Coonskinner]

mabe this is a good reason for liberal churchs. that way your apostolic women can look dour without looking apostolic and thereby not causing reproach upon the Lords Church?

Other than taking a little license with some terminology, this one gets two thumbs up.:)

[SDG]

This is the part when the GOOD OL' BOYZ NETWORK comes and saves the day ....

[Thumper]

Another example of the condescension and pretentiousness of another compassionate hit and run post.

Maybe I should start a thread about...

Are all mexican americans are lazy

or

Are all chinese americans bad drivers

or

Are all liberal apostolics from houston actually reprobates

You ask a question with the sole intent of starting course of discussion that will provide you and other like you with opportunity to mock and make fun of Godly people.

You really need to find a new hobby cause the one you got is pitiful

[Coonskinner]

Medicine talking again, Ferd?

Or did you not read his initial post where he said SOME apostolic women and not ALL? ...and even included quotes form a REAL Apostolic woman, Sis Alvear, where she made the same observations?

Some?

Some of all women from every walk of life are dour.

Some lady lawyers are.

Some housewives are.

Some Baptists are.

Some Catholics are.

The point our hero is attempting to make is that our doctrine and practice has created a higher than average ratio of dour women in our ranks.

This is a pure load of organic material.

In fact, I am tempted to issue the first El Toro I have given in a long while.

[SDG]

Maybe I should start a thread about...

Are all mexican americans are lazy

or

Are all chinese americans bad drivers

or

Are all liberal apostolics from houston actually reprobates

You ask a question with the sole intent of starting course of discussion that will provide you and other like you with opportunity to mock and make fun of Godly people.

You really need to find a new hobby cause the one you got is pitiful

Son,

Read my original thread .... It was intentionally made to be a tautology .... and later clarified ....

What you can't stand like the rest of the Sanhedrin is divergent thought ....

[SDG]

This portion of the thread is brought to you by:

http://respiracreative.com/cops.jpg

[Thumper]

Son,

Read my original thread .... It was intentionally made to be an tautology .... and later clarified ....

What you can't stand like the rest of the Sanhedrin is divergent thought ....

I'm not your son. I read your original thread starter. Pitiful is about all I can say discussion with you is probably the most unprofitable thing I con imagine

I'm out

[SDG]

I'm not your son. I read your original thread starter. Pitiful is about all I can say discussion with you is probably the most unprofitable thing I con imagine

I'm out

See ya ... wouldn't like to be ya!

http://carryabigsticker.com/images/peace_symbol_rwb_300.gif

[Hoovie]

Some?

Some of all women from every walk of life are dour.

Some lady lawyers are.

Some housewives are.

Some Baptists are.

Some Catholics are.

The point our hero is attempting to make is that our doctrine and practice has created a higher than average ratio of dour women in our ranks.

This is a pure load of organic material.In fact, I am tempted to issue the first El Toro I have given in a long while.




:killinme:killinme:killinme:killinme:killinme:kill inme:killinme ROTFLOL!!

[SDG]

:killinme:killinme:killinme:killinme:killinme:kill inme:killinme ROTFLOL!!

The amount of euphemisms used by PREACHERS on this forum is amazing ... I think I'll start a thread.

[ILG]

I know it's a blanket statement ... and of course it does not apply to all [and dourness applies to men as well]

I even remember my dad saying that many Apostolics looked like they were baptized in lemon juice.

... but from personal observation I've seen a particular dourness that prevails in some of the women in our movement.

I have made some personal observations from being an Apostolic my whole life .... and even from some the statements of vibrant Apostolic women ... including some from this forum ... Sister Alvear, Rhoni, in particular.

I think some of it may be attributed to the high demands we place on them.

They include:

1. An unbalanced demand on them to be the benchmarks of separation and holiness.

2. The 1950's model of the ideal family. Men work ... women stay in the home, cook, clean and raise the kids. Those that do work ... often come home to work a second shift. Not to forget the added responsibilities church can place on some of them.

3. Our separation has caused some to be very apathetic to those that don't fit the "mold".

Are these pressures affecting their joy???

Just thinking out loud .... let the games begin!!!!!!!

There are those who are and those who aren't. I do think some of the demands CAN cause depression in some, but not all.

[Coonskinner]

The purpose of this thread was clear from the very first post.

It has zero credibility.

Daniel, your mother was an Apostolic woman. Good job.

[Felicity]

I think that some women are just sad or grumpy people but that description crosses denominational and even Christian/nonChristian lines.

I'm a little defensive because I'm an "apostolic" woman and I just think that the label "dour" can be applied to every segment of the human race pretty much.

I'm certainly not dour - in no way shape or form - but I don't go around with a perennial artificial smile plastered on my face either.

[BrotherEastman]

You know, I think my wife is one nice and lovely gal. I wonder how much nicer she would be if she weren't Apostolic.

[SDG]

The purpose of this thread was clear from the very first post.

It has zero credibility.

Daniel, your mother was an Apostolic woman. Good job.

It has no credibility in your narrow perception .... and ,yes, my mother is AN APOSTOLIC woman ... an AWESOME ONE AT THAT.

Do you want to talk about mothers????

It appears you would rather OBFUSCATE than address any of the issues brought up ... NOT SURPRISED

[Coonskinner]

It has no credibility in your narrow perception .... and ,yes, my mother is AN APOSTOLIC woman ... an AWESOME ONE AT THAT.

Do you want to talk about mothers????

It appears you would rather OBFUSCATE than address any of the issues brought up ... NOT SURPRISED


I have not obfuscated.

I have been around Apostolic women my whole life and it is my opinion that they are far less dour, on the average than the sinner women i know.

Daniel, when a person walks away from truth, they often have to keep finding new ways to reassure themselves and quiet that nagging twinge of conscience that feels like a claw in the back their mind.

You are an easy read. I have seen your kind do this for years.

[SDG]

I have not obfuscated.

I have been around Apostolic women my whole life and it is my opinion that they are far less dour, on the average than the sinner women i know.

Daniel, when a person walks away from truth, they often have to keep finding new ways to reassure themselves and quiet that nagging twinge of conscience that feels like a claw in the back their mind.

You are an easy read. I have seen your kind do this for years.

As your ilk .... usually there's a lot more than meets the eye ....

["GL"]

...Daniel, when a person walks away from truth, they often have to keep finding new ways to reassure themselves and quiet that nagging twinge of conscience that feels like a claw in the back their mind....You are an easy read. I have seen your kind do this for years.

http://www.cde.tennessee.edu/images/projects_hammer.jpg

[Coonskinner]

Pretty much an open book here.

Nothing to hide.

Lots of people here know me.

[MissBrattified]

Well...I've been less than...sanguine lately...but I think its just sheer exhaustion. You know, Apostolic women are also...HUMAN. *gasp* *unbelievable* There are days when I'm so tired that working up a friendly face is an effort. I don't think it has anything to do with me being Apostolic. Probably more like...run ragged, 3 kids underfoot...too many obligations...Jeff being out of town working 4 days a week...*shrug*

Personally, I think you can read too much into things. I've met just as many tired mothers who were Baptist, Assembly of God, Methodist and Just Plain Heathen.

But...I have seen women who looked mean...I really don't think its intentional...and I've seen more secular women like that than Christian (Apostolic or otherwise). I do think we need to try to make an effort to be approachable and friendly, but on the flip side, I'm not super woman either.

[SDG]

Pretty much an open book here.

Nothing to hide.

Lots of people here know me.

So may it be.

[Coonskinner]

So may it be.


What does this mean?

[Sherri]

Well...I've been less than...sanguine lately...but I think its just sheer exhaustion. You know, Apostolic women are also...HUMAN. *gasp* *unbelievable* There are days when I'm so tired that working up a friendly face is an effort. I don't think it has anything to do with me being Apostolic. Probably more like...run ragged, 3 kids underfoot...too many obligations...Jeff being out of town working 4 days a week...*shrug*

Personally, I think you can read too much into things. I've met just as many tired mothers who were Baptist, Assembly of God, Methodist and Just Plain Heathen.

But...I have seen women who looked mean...I really don't think its intentional...and I've seen more secular women like that than Christian (Apostolic or otherwise). I do think we need to try to make an effort to be approachable and friendly, but on the flip side, I'm not super woman either.
Exactly! I love Daniel, and often agree with him, but this thread really has no basis of truth. People are people, regardless of what ilk they are of. Happy Apostolics; not so happy Apostolics; happy non-Apostolics; not so happy non-Apostolics. They're all just people.

[SDG]

What does this mean?

So may it be.

[SDG]

Mother Alvear:

Dan, some men are so hard on their wives they turn them against standards. Some men are kind to everyone except their wife and she becomes his slave. Whether we want to admit it or not there are a lot of issues that need to be dealt with in our Pentecostal world. Lots of ladies talk to me in meetings some of my closest friends have walked away from it all...I just feel our homes are so important to the Lord...

[Hoovie]

D A, In a broader scope I can see you may be right - as in Christians in general.

Pentecostals in general I think are more fun-loving and party oriented than many Christians.

But then I realize I can only see my own surroundings. We go to a great church that is progressive and does not spend much time bemoaning the life we don't live or have.

[Hoovie]

Mother Alvear:

In all fairness I think Sis Alvear is simply reminding us that being a Spirit-Filled Christian does not exempt one from that which is common among humans. I do not think she was saying this is a particular Penetecostal problem.

[Coonskinner]

In all fairness I think Sis Alvear is simply reminding us that being a Spirit-Filled Christian does not exempt one from that which is common among humans. I do not think she was saying this is a particular Penetecostal problem.

And I think she will be very grieved to find out the manner in which her words have been used.

That is a cheap, cheap, cheap shot.

[Hoovie]

Sorry to make reference to the WifeSwap show, but here is a quote from my wife that was used in national press.

"Often, conservative Christians are stereotyped as dull, mindless and weak individuals. I hoped in some
small way I could change this perception and show a traditional lifestyle as fun and rewarding."

[SDG]

Sorry to make reference to the WifeSwap show, but here is a quote from my wife that was used in national press.

"Often, conservative Christians are stereotyped as dull, mindless and weak individuals. I hoped in some
small way I could change this perception and show a traditional lifestyle as fun and rewarding."

I'm glad you guys did just that ....

[SDG]

And I think she will be very grieved to find out the manner in which her words have been used.

That is a cheap, cheap, cheap shot.

Almost akin to bringing in MOTHERS????

Get off the high horse. It's old.

[Coonskinner]

Almost akin to bringing in MOTHERS????

Get off the high horse. It's old.

You are the one who broad brushed an entire group of ladies, of which your mother is one.

Don't blame me for that one.

And you know very well that Sister Alvear is a precious, Holiness loving Apostolic lady who would never want her words twisted and used to slam the way she has given her life for.

[SDG]

You are the one who broad brushed an entire group of ladies, of which your mother is one.

Don't blame me for that one.

And you know very well that Sister Alvear is a precious, Holiness loving Apostolic lady who would never want her words twisted and used to slam the way she has given her life for.

Perhaps we're dealing w/ a literacy problem????

[Rico]

You are the one who broad brushed an entire group of ladies, of which your mother is one.

Don't blame me for that one.

And you know very well that Sister Alvear is a precious, Holiness loving Apostolic lady who would never want her words twisted and used to slam the way she has given her life for.


No, he did not.


I know it's a blanket statement ... and of course it does not apply to all [and dourness applies to men as well]

I even remember my dad saying that many Apostolics looked like they were baptized in lemon juice.

... but from personal observation I've seen a particular dourness that prevails in some of the women in our movement.

[SDG]

No, he did not.


I know it's a blanket statement ... and of course it does not apply to all [and dourness applies to men as well]

I even remember my dad saying that many Apostolics looked like they were baptized in lemon juice.

... but from personal observation I've seen a particular dourness that prevails in some of the women in our movement.

Yep ... a literacy problem indeed.

[Coonskinner]

LOL!

Maybe some day I will be as smart as Daniel and Rico. :)

[SDG]

The broadbrushing my mountain man friend seems to be a part of your bag of tricks .... Not every discussion started by Dan is directed or centered around you're isolated world .... Try objectivity ... it won't hurt.

[SDG]

LOL!

Maybe some day I will be as smart as Daniel and Rico. :)

Strive for Excellence.

[Rico]

LOL!

Maybe some day I will be as smart as Daniel and Rico. :)

Hehehehe. Well, Brother, maybe ya just shoulda read the first post twice before you decided he was broad brushing all apostolic women folk.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Hehehehe. Well, Brother, maybe ya just shoulda read the first post twice before you decided he was broad brushing all apostolic women folk.

They are the same as the other 88 posts on this thread that broadbrush all Apostolic Women.

:bubble

I see Emma never chimed in either.

[Ronzo]

LOL!

Maybe some day I will be as smart as Daniel and Rico. :)
I brought the point up a few pages back that he wasn't including all and you tossed me aside like I was garbage.

I figured I'd just let you go on ahead into the wall and maybe you'd wake up a little smarter after you hit it face first.

Sorry.

[Coonskinner]

I brought the point up a few pages back that he wasn't including all and you tossed me aside like I was garbage.

I figured I'd just let you go on ahead into the wall and maybe you'd wake up a little smarter after you hit it face first.

Sorry.

Tossed you aside like garbage?

Incredible.

And as for hitting the wall...I don't think so.:heeheehee

[SDG]

Tossed you aside like garbage?

Incredible.

And as for hitting the wall...I don't think so.:heeheehee

How's your nose?

[Ronzo]

Some?

Some of all women from every walk of life are dour.

Some lady lawyers are.

Some housewives are.

Some Baptists are.

Some Catholics are.

The point our hero is attempting to make is that our doctrine and practice has created a higher than average ratio of dour women in our ranks.

This is a pure load of organic material.

In fact, I am tempted to issue the first El Toro I have given in a long while.
Ok, maybe not garbage, but you sure made it seem like I was covering for the guy when he acutally said exactly what I claimed he did.

You didn't bother to go back and look at it again.... and kept right on rolling with your rant.


I know it's a blanket statement ... and of course it does not apply to all [and dourness applies to men as well]

I even remember my dad saying that many Apostolics looked like they were baptized in lemon juice.

... but from personal observation I've seen a particular dourness that prevails in some of the women in our movement.

I have made some personal observations from being an Apostolic my whole life .... and even from some the statements of vibrant Apostolic women ... including some from this forum ... Sister Alvear, Rhoni, in particular.

I think some of it may be attributed to the high demands we place on them.

They include:

1. An unbalanced demand on them to be the benchmarks of separation and holiness.

2. The 1950's model of the ideal family. Men work ... women stay in the home, cook, clean and raise the kids. Those that do work ... often come home to work a second shift. Not to forget the added responsibilities church can place on some of them.

3. Our separation has caused some to be very apathetic to those that don't fit the "mold".

Are these pressures affecting their joy???

Just thinking out loud .... let the games begin!!!!!!!

*BANG*
There's the wall....

[SDG]

Ok, maybe not garbage, but you sure made it seem like I was covering for the guy when he acutally said exactly what I claimed he did.

You didn't bother to go back and look at it again.... and kept right on rolling with your rant.


*BANG*
There's the wall....

You don't think banging INTO THE WALL is his agenda do ya???

[CupCake]

This is the part when the GOOD OL' BOYZ NETWORK comes and saves the day ....

Lol~ Agree.......:killinme

http://www.bible-history.com/pharisees/pharisees2.jpg

[Thumper]

The purpose of this thread was clear from the very first post.

It has zero credibility.

Daniel, your mother was an Apostolic woman. Good job.

My point exactly elder, I post very rarely any more. For the most part I simply don't have the inclination to wade through Alicea's constant filth. It is just to wearying.

[Chewy]

I'm not sure why some of you are so defensive about this. It really can't be denied and the boy stated right up front it wasn't all and that included men and I didn't see him say UPC.

I have been following Mother Alvear posts and those quotes he posted were right on too. They aren't misplaced in this thread either. She knows what she is talking about and just because you don't experience this doesn't mean it's not there.

Head in the sand mentality comes to mind here.

It is quite comical to watch some of you get so riled up over something you don't even think exists. If I didn't think it exists, I wouldn't waste my time trying to defend it.

[Nahum]

Can't we just all get along?

You guys know how much I just hate controversy!

[CupCake]

Well...I've been less than...sanguine lately...but I think its just sheer exhaustion. You know, Apostolic women are also...HUMAN. *gasp* *unbelievable* There are days when I'm so tired that working up a friendly face is an effort. I don't think it has anything to do with me being Apostolic. Probably more like...run ragged, 3 kids underfoot...too many obligations...Jeff being out of town working 4 days a week...*shrug*

Personally, I think you can read too much into things. I've met just as many tired mothers who were Baptist, Assembly of God, Methodist and Just Plain Heathen.

But...I have seen women who looked mean...I really don't think its intentional...and I've seen more secular women like that than Christian (Apostolic or otherwise). I do think we need to try to make an effort to be approachable and friendly, but on the flip side, I'm not super woman either.

Very true, having little ones is tiering and work ! I was very blessed to be a a stay at home mom for 23 years while the kids were in school. I went to work outside the home for the first in my life two years ago and I can say working outside the home is a lot easier then taken care of young ones all day long, at least when the clock hits five job is over, being a stay at home mom never ends...... :haloplug


I think with all the demands we were under back then with church and all, it was just to much. The kids looked wiped out, so many hours spent on the road, staying in others homes while being a travailing pastor took a toll, if I could do it over I'd made sure my kids got the rest they needed .

[Ronzo]

It is quite comical to watch some of you get so riled up over something you don't even think exists. If I didn't think it exists, I wouldn't waste my time trying to defend it.
yikes

[rgcraig]

Can't we just all get along?

You guys know how much I just hate controversy!

I blew Cheez-It's all over my screen!!!!! :killinme

[Ronzo]

Can't we just all get along?

You guys know how much I just hate controversy!

:lol



:laffatu



:killinme


:heeheehee

[Nahum]

Can't we just all get along?

You guys know how much I just hate controversy!

I blew Cheez-It's all over my screen!!!!! :killinme


Are you saying my post blows? :heeheehee

[CupCake]

I brought the point up a few pages back that he wasn't including all and you tossed me aside like I was garbage.

I figured I'd just let you go on ahead into the wall and maybe you'd wake up a little smarter after you hit it face first.

Sorry.

LOl~You think.....;)

[SDG]

Can't we just all get along?

You guys know how much I just hate controversy!

In the words of a great preacher .... in this very thread

"That's a load of organic material".

[Ronzo]

In the words of a great preacher .... in this very thread

"That's a load of organic material".
*buys some soap for Dannyboy's potty mouth!*

[CupCake]

The broadbrushing my mountain man friend seems to be a part of your bag of tricks .... Not every discussion started by Dan is directed or centered around you're isolated world .... Try objectivity ... it won't hurt.

It's called a box.....;)

http://tecfa.unige.ch/guides/vrml/vrml97/spec/Images/box.gif

[Nahum]

Can't we just all get along?

You guys know how much I just hate controversy!

I blew Cheez-It's all over my screen!!!!! :killinme

:lol



:laffatu



:killinme


:heeheehee

In the words of a great preacher .... in this very thread

"That's a load of organic material".

My feelings are really, really hurt. :lovesmenot

[Scott Hutchinson]

I guess I'm dumb as I don't know what dour is ?

[rgcraig]

Are you saying my post blows? :heeheehee

No, just my Cheez-It's did!

[SDG]

I guess I'm dumb as I don't know what dour is ?

You're timing is impeccable as always.

[Nahum]

I guess I'm dumb as I don't know what dour is ?

In Spanish it means "Daniel".

[rgcraig]

dour?

dour (dʊr, dour) pronunciation
adj., dour·er, dour·est.

1. Marked by sternness or harshness; forbidding: a dour, self-sacrificing life.
2. Silently ill-humored; gloomy: the proverbially dour New England Puritan.
3. Sternly obstinate; unyielding: a dour determination.

no - but I know of which you speak - and it's ignorance, plain and simple.

Bro. Scott.

[Scott Hutchinson]

How can a woman be a Daniel ?

[CupCake]

I guess I'm dumb as I don't know what dour is ?

Now Scott, didn't you say you were from white trash state???? So don't feel to bad~:heeheehee

dour /dʊər, daʊər, ˈdaʊər/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[door, douuhr, dou-er] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. sullen; gloomy: The captain's dour look depressed us all.
2. severe; stern: His dour criticism made us regret having undertaken the job.
3. Scot. (of land) barren; rocky, infertile, or otherwise difficult or impossible to cultivate.

[SDG]

How can a woman be a Daniel ?

Only at the places PP frequents .... on Friday nights.

[Scott Hutchinson]

Don't all women get stern and harsh at certain times ?

[MissBrattified]

Here's my bit of input...I DO think that in many churches there is a lack of understanding and available counseling and resources for families, and couples and women. ADD to that what is often an irrational fear of any sort of secular counsel (okay, sometimes the avoidance is well-placed....), and you have many women (and men) with problems they need help with, and pastors who either don't have the answers or who aren't really interested in taking the time to give the answers.

I do believe there is a shortage of godly wisdom and counsel, and "Go pray through" isn't always good enough, except as a means to get someone out of your office and put all the burden squarely back on their shoulders. There's also plenty of weirdly placed stigma on familial issues which causes them to be swept under the rug, while everyone plays church and "perfect-Christian-family" every Sunday until the problems boil over, and then everyone is shocked and appalled, and anyone who has things under the rugs takes note and stacks four more rugs on TOP of their problems.

I know of two couples right now whose marriages are on the ROCKS but they would DIE before they told anyone in the church about those issues. (e.g., pastor/pastor's wife and/or staff)

SO...I said that to say...I think there are some women who are overwhelmed, over-burdened, in painful marriages, and the church they are committed to both offers them zero practical solutions, and overtly or covertly condemns them seeking advice or solutions from any other source.

I don't think that it has much, if anything, to do with "self-righteousness", or with unhappiness with their Apostolic lifestyle. (in most cases)

[Chewy]

It reads that many of you have a problem with whatever Daniel posts no matter what the subject matter is.

He could start a thread on the second coming of Christ and some of you would have a problem with it.

[Scott Hutchinson]

My wife don't look gloomy.She looks rather nice.

[Nahum]

Only at the places PP frequents .... on Friday nights.

LOL! AFF?:lol

[CupCake]

Don't all women get stern and harsh at certain times ?

Oh you mean PMS, just wait till you met her bigger and meaner sister Menopause....:sing

[SDG]

It reads that many of you have a problem with whatever Daniel posts no matter what the subject matter is.

He could start a thread on the second coming of Christ and some of you would have a problem with it.

What can I say ??? I have a way w/ words. :killinme

[Nahum]

It reads that many of you have a problem with whatever Daniel posts no matter what the subject matter is.

He could start a thread on the second coming of Christ and some of you would have a problem with it.
Stop being so blue. We all love Daniel. Even when he is totally off base.

[Scott Hutchinson]

Daniel is my friend even though He lacks my theological prowess.

[MissBrattified]

Oh you mean PMS, just wait till you met her bigger and meaner sister Menopause....:sing

:heeheehee :heeheehee

[SDG]

Daniel is my friend even though He lacks my theological prowess.

Scott ... I let you win.

[Scott Hutchinson]

Oh you mean PMS, just wait till you met her bigger and meaner sister Menopause....:sing

I think I have met it.

[CupCake]

Here's my bit of input...I DO think that in many churches there is a lack of understanding and available counseling and resources for families, and couples and women. ADD to that what is often an irrational fear of any sort of secular counsel (okay, sometimes the avoidance is well-placed....), and you have many women (and men) with problems they need help with, and pastors who either don't have the answers or who aren't really interested in taking the time to give the answers.

I do believe there is a shortage of godly wisdom and counsel, and "Go pray through" isn't always good enough, except as a means to get someone out of your office and put all the burden squarely back on their shoulders. There's also plenty of weirdly placed stigma on familial issues which causes them to be swept under the rug, while everyone plays church and "perfect-Christian-family" every Sunday until the problems boil over, and then everyone is shocked and appalled, and anyone who has things under the rugs takes note and stacks four more rugs on TOP of their problems.

I know of two couples right now whose marriages are on the ROCKS but they would DIE before they told anyone in the church about those issues. (e.g., pastor/pastor's wife and/or staff)

SO...I said that to say...I think there are some women who are overwhelmed, over-burdened, in painful marriages, and the church they are committed to both offers them zero practical solutions, and overtly or covertly condemns them seeking advice or solutions from any other source.

I don't think that it has much, if anything, to do with "self-righteousness", or with unhappiness with their Apostolic lifestyle. (in most cases)

The bake sale are down????
















J/K :killinme

Like I said earlier Mother have the hardest job of all~

[SDG]

Here's my bit of input...I DO think that in many churches there is a lack of understanding and available counseling and resources for families, and couples and women. ADD to that what is often an irrational fear of any sort of secular counsel (okay, sometimes the avoidance is well-placed....), and you have many women (and men) with problems they need help with, and pastors who either don't have the answers or who aren't really interested in taking the time to give the answers.

I do believe there is a shortage of godly wisdom and counsel, and "Go pray through" isn't always good enough, except as a means to get someone out of your office and put all the burden squarely back on their shoulders. There's also plenty of weirdly placed stigma on familial issues which causes them to be swept under the rug, while everyone plays church and "perfect-Christian-family" every Sunday until the problems boil over, and then everyone is shocked and appalled, and anyone who has things under the rugs takes note and stacks four more rugs on TOP of their problems.

I know of two couples right now whose marriages are on the ROCKS but they would DIE before they told anyone in the church about those issues. (e.g., pastor/pastor's wife and/or staff)

SO...I said that to say...I think there are some women who are overwhelmed, over-burdened, in painful marriages, and the church they are committed to both offers them zero practical solutions, and overtly or covertly condemns them seeking advice or solutions from any other source.

I don't think that it has much, if anything, to do with "self-righteousness", or with unhappiness with their Apostolic lifestyle. (in most cases)

Well presented ... I agree that counseling needs to play a bigger role ....

[CupCake]

I think I have met it.

You poor, poor dear soul...May God give you sanity .....;)

[SDG]

The bake sale are down????

J/K :killinme

Like I said earlier Mothers have the hardest job of all~

They do indeed ....

[Scott Hutchinson]

Scott ... I let you win.

Daniel has got me beat in the langauge department He speaks proper English.

[rgcraig]

Here's my bit of input...I DO think that in many churches there is a lack of understanding and available counseling and resources for families, and couples and women. ADD to that what is often an irrational fear of any sort of secular counsel (okay, sometimes the avoidance is well-placed....), and you have many women (and men) with problems they need help with, and pastors who either don't have the answers or who aren't really interested in taking the time to give the answers.

I do believe there is a shortage of godly wisdom and counsel, and "Go pray through" isn't always good enough, except as a means to get someone out of your office and put all the burden squarely back on their shoulders. There's also plenty of weirdly placed stigma on familial issues which causes them to be swept under the rug, while everyone plays church and "perfect-Christian-family" every Sunday until the problems boil over, and then everyone is shocked and appalled, and anyone who has things under the rugs takes note and stacks four more rugs on TOP of their problems.

I know of two couples right now whose marriages are on the ROCKS but they would DIE before they told anyone in the church about those issues. (e.g., pastor/pastor's wife and/or staff)

SO...I said that to say...I think there are some women who are overwhelmed, over-burdened, in painful marriages, and the church they are committed to both offers them zero practical solutions, and overtly or covertly condemns them seeking advice or solutions from any other source.

I don't think that it has much, if anything, to do with "self-righteousness", or with unhappiness with their Apostolic lifestyle. (in most cases)

Miss Bratt - once again a great post! I completely agree with it and really wish something could be done about it.

So many times it's the fear of others finding out and their spirituality being questioned and life is real and problems are real and these individuals shouldn't be just patted on the back and say "let's just pray about it."

Self-righteousness is just one aspect of some of these people ( and not in just UPC). I see self-righteous people at work all the time that think they are better than others and they have that haughtly attitude to go along with it.

[SDG]

We are in dire need of practical solutions, indeed.

[Nahum]

C-O-N-T-R-O-V-E-R-S-Y

such a lovely word. Everything else is just absurd.

[Scott Hutchinson]

Boy if my wife reads my posts here my goose is cooked.

[CupCake]

They do indeed ....

The real kicker this, even when they grow up move out on their own you still worry....It never ends, I remember my own mother telling me that~:sshhh

[Sheltiedad]

I think that the reason a lot of Apostolic women look tired and unhappy is because they have too many obligations imposed on them by the church and they are afraid to say no... they are just moving from one task to the next trying to get it all done and do not have time to enjoy life (other than when they are in a service, since most of them state that that is the high point of their day/week/etc.

[Ronzo]

In Spanish it means "Daniel".
Ok, I just laughed out loud!

[rgcraig]

Ok, I just laughed out loud!

That's a good thing and a lot better than spitting out Cheez-It's!!!

[Nahum]

I'm glad I can bring sooooo much joy to your lives. LOL

[Trouvere]

I think I have met it.

Boy the ice is getting thin around lower Alabama.:sshhh

[Ferd]

Sorry bro,

I meant the whole premise of this thread. Your apron wearing not withstanding

hee hee. i was just proving my manhood.

I wish Daniel could have met my grand mother Maw Green.


there was nothing dour about that woman!

[rgcraig]

Renda, I can tell you that you are an awesome person, and highly valued in the eyes of the Lord. He's not gonna leave you alone! Bank on it!

PP - thanks! I missed this earlier.

Well, if you ever get the nerve you can ask LC about me - - I'd probably get a decent review. I feel blessed.

[Nahum]

PP - thanks! I missed this earlier.

Well, if you ever get the nerve you can ask LC about me - - I'd probably get a decent review. I feel blessed.

LC is a great guy, but I don't want my cover blown.

Plus, you are much nicer than he is. He is a lilly-liver. Get it? LOL

[rgcraig]

LC is a great guy, but I don't want my cover blown.

Plus, you are much nicer than he is. He is a lilly-liver. Get it? LOL

Can you believe it's been over a year already!!!!

[Nahum]

Can you believe it's been over a year already!!!!


He's doing great! Never give up on God!

[rgcraig]

He's doing great! Never give up on God!Amen!

[Steve Epley]

Dan I think greasy grace don't believe water is wet liberals are dour!!!!!! How's that.:club

[SDG]

Dan I think greasy grace don't believe water is wet liberals are dour!!!!!! How's that.:club

Unintelligible???

[Sherri]

Dan I think greasy grace don't believe water is wet liberals are dour!!!!!! How's that.:club
This sentence lacks some serious structure!

[Ronzo]

This sentence lacks some serious structure!
Ms Sherri, Please diagram it for the elder.

[SDG]

Why not .... BUMP.

[JaneEyre]

Why not .... BUMP.


Well, "they" certainly don't call you "DA" around here for nuttin'.

[SDG]

Well, "they" certainly don't call you "DA" around here for nuttin'.

DA is better the Plain Jane.

[MrsBOOMM]

I was thinking today as I was at the Mall, there are so many products out there to make women happy, There are more soaps and lotions and rubs and stuff that is suppose to make a woman feel good. Then there are the pedicure, manicure shops, the massage shops....everywhere you look there are products and services that are aimed at woman to supposedly make them feel good. I realize that all these products are not aimed at just women but for the most part they are. Yet, women are so unhappy. As I was shopping I witnessed such harshness with the clerks, with their own children. I saw a mother get so upset at her daughter who had just brought her a white chocolate mocha because it was the wrong kind. I thought the daughter was gonna cry, it was so sad I wanted to go hug her. But in a world where there is so much emphasis put on making the ladies feel better, there are a lot of them that are not happy. And you know the saying, If Mama ain't happy, there's nobody happy. So, I guess, what I am trying to say is that women in general are unhappy. Not all of them, though I must add but a lot of them. I really don't think it makes a lot of difference if they are christian or not, you will find unhappy women in and out of the church. I do think that christian women should be the happiest, kindest, easiest to get a long with people, but somewhere we have failed to teach that and some have failed to learn it.

[Rico]

I was thinking today as I was at the Mall, there are so many products out there to make women happy, There are more soaps and lotions and rubs and stuff that is suppose to make a woman feel good. Then there are the pedicure, manicure shops, the massage shops....everywhere you look there are products and services that are aimed at woman to supposedly make them feel good. I realize that all these products are not aimed at just women but for the most part they are. Yet, women are so unhappy. As I was shopping I witnessed such harshness with the clerks, with their own children. I saw a mother get so upset at her daughter who had just brought her a white chocolate mocha because it was the wrong kind. I thought the daughter was gonna cry, it was so sad I wanted to go hug her. But in a world where there is so much emphasis put on making the ladies feel better, there are a lot of them that are not happy. And you know the saying, If Mama ain't happy, there's nobody happy. So, I guess, what I am trying to say is that women in general are unhappy. Not all of them, though I must add but a lot of them. I really don't think it makes a lot of difference if they are christian or not, you will find unhappy women in and out of the church. I do think that christian women should be the happiest, kindest, easiest to get a long with people, but somewhere we have failed to teach that and some have failed to learn it.

Sister, people are desperate these days. The problem is they don't know what they are desperate for. What they need is more Jesus and less Visa and Mastercard. Help me God, to be a light in such a dark world.

[Sissy]

To get back to the title of this thread - Are Apostolic Women Dour?

Yes, some of them are. Why? Not sure - I do know that when I was younger, some of the older women seemed to be of that nature. Or at least that is what I perceived.

I think women in this generation seemed to be a little more relaxed as far as being able to "let their hair down", whereas in the earlier years women would be criticized for not being prudent. Some of the church pictures that I have seen that were taken in the 50's & 60's - the women rarely smiled. (I'm not sure if I am mixing apples and oranges here)

I do believe they should receive the "Joy of the Lord" when they were filled with Holy Ghost but is it possible that it could be a personality flaw? Or could it be the environment in which one is raised in that would be responsible for such behavior. (I know the Bible states that a person becomes a new creature in Christ)

For an example, my MIL is Dour and has always been, she is a Pastor's wife and has offended many people. I contributed it to her childhood. Her childhood memories consist of hiding when her drunken father got home from work. When she was a young girl, her 13 year old brother died on the living room couch from Leukemia. Her mother was Polish - very staunch and rigid. "I love you" were never told to her or her siblings by either parents nor any kind of affection was shown. They kicked her out of the house at age 15. She, still to this day, has a hard time displaying affection to anyone - regardless of family or friends. However, she does say "I love you" to all of us.:)

Not sure if I really answered this thread the way I wanted to convey it.

[Dantheman1]

I know it's a blanket statement ... and of course it does not apply to all [and dourness applies to men as well]

I even remember my dad saying that many Apostolics looked like they were baptized in lemon juice.

... but from personal observation I've seen a particular dourness that prevails in some of the women in our movement.

I have made some personal observations from being an Apostolic my whole life .... and even from some the statements of vibrant Apostolic women ... including some from this forum ... Sister Alvear, Rhoni, in particular.

I think some of it may be attributed to the high demands we place on them.

They include:

1. An unbalanced demand on them to be the benchmarks of separation and holiness.

2. The 1950's model of the ideal family. Men work ... women stay in the home, cook, clean and raise the kids. Those that do work ... often come home to work a second shift. Not to forget the added responsibilities church can place on some of them.

3. Our separation has caused some to be very apathetic to those that don't fit the "mold".

Are these pressures affecting their joy???

Just thinking out loud .... let the games begin!!!!!!!

I feel for you my brother, the only women you have met in churches are "dour" ones? Perhaps it may be this is all they observe in you. ( ouch). That even hurt me. Sorry, as one who shares the same Apostolic heritage, I would have to say it really is the environment we surround ourselves with. You can't judge a book by it's cover, nor by the post either. Seriously, I enjoy your dry sense of humor and biting intellect. But everyone, including women, have something to offer the Lord and his bride; albeit behind facades they deem necessary to obey protocol. ( some are just shy).:roseglasses

[Trouvere]

I am happy.I get told all the time that whatever it is that I am taking or doing please share.I have had nurses corner me and close the door to say that whatever I have or whatever church I go to they want to come because what I have they want.No problem here Daniel.Must be a judgemental statement about apostolic women.Most I know are smiling.Thank God for that.We are happy when we go to church and work and home.:hypercoffee

[SDG]

I feel for you my brother, the only women you have met in churches are "dour" ones? Perhaps it may be this is all they observe in you. ( ouch). That even hurt me. Sorry, as one who shares the same Apostolic heritage, I would have to say it really is the environment we surround ourselves with. You can't judge a book by it's cover, nor by the post either. Seriously, I enjoy your dry sense of humor and biting intellect. But everyone, including women, have something to offer the Lord and his bride; albeit behind facades they deem necessary to obey protocol. ( some are just shy).:roseglasses

I agree w/ the thrust of your post ... please re-read my original post carefully.

[crazyhomie]

I categorically reject the notion that Apostolics are male-dominated. In fact, I see the opposite as truth. More and more, I see Apostolic women who want to rule the world and their husbands, and the pastor, and their entire church. Their goal is not equality, it is superiority. Are these women dour? I suppose so. Stepping outside of God's plan for the family normally leads to unhappiness.

The thing I notice is a move toward flashing skin, dominance, and male bashing. Very few women act lady-like nowadays.

What exactly is your definition of ladylike? Walking 30 steps behind you and calling you Lord?

My wife thinks I'm her Lord, shes always offering me burnt offerings for breakfast.:killinme

[crazyhomie]

Boy if my wife reads my posts here my goose is cooked.

You're one of those spineless men the ladies are dominating aren't you!!!:hypercoffee

[Coonskinner]

What exactly is your definition of ladylike? Walking 30 steps behind you and calling you Lord?

My wife thinks I'm her Lord, shes always offering me burnt offerings for breakfast.:killinme


In his epistle(should it be in the canon?), Peter said that a meek and quiet spirit were of great price in the sight of God.

Last night during leadership class, I explained that ladies can have a vivacious, outgoing personality and not be in violation of this Scripture. My wife is more outgoing and has a more aggressive personality than I do; but she knows how o remain in submission.

It is a meek and quiet spirit that God values.

As for meekness in general, that is a part of the fruit of the Spirit, so that one is good for men and women.

Meekness and submission don't equate to being a doormat.

[Rachel]

In his epistle(should it be in the canon?), Peter said that a meek and quiet spirit were of great price in the sight of God.

Last night during leadership class, I explained that ladies can have a vivacious, outgoing personality and not be in violation of this Scripture. My wife is more outgoing and has a more aggressive personality than I do; but she knows how o remain in submission.

It is a meek and quiet spirit that God values.

As for meekness in general, that is a part of the fruit of the Spirit, so that one is good for men and women.

Meekness and submission don't equate to being a doormat.

Great points.

[DividedThigh]

i think that apostolic women who have christ in there hearts are the most beautiful women in the world, Natural beauty and the glow of christ, are breathtaking, dt:hypercoffee:poloroid

[DAII]

I know it's a blanket statement ... and of course it does not apply to all [and dourness applies to men as well]

I even remember my dad saying that many Apostolics looked like they were baptized in lemon juice.

... but from personal observation I've seen a particular dourness that prevails in some of the women in our movement.

I have made some personal observations from being an Apostolic my whole life .... and even from some the statements of vibrant Apostolic women ... including some from this forum ... Sister Alvear, Rhoni, in particular.

I think some of it may be attributed to the high demands we place on them.

They include:

1. An unbalanced demand on them to be the benchmarks of separation and holiness.

2. The 1950's model of the ideal family. Men work ... women stay in the home, cook, clean and raise the kids. Those that do work ... often come home to work a second shift. Not to forget the added responsibilities church can place on some of them.

3. Our separation has caused some to be very apathetic to those that don't fit the "mold".

Are these pressures affecting their joy???

Just thinking out loud .... let the games begin!!!!!!!

Bumperooski.

[notofworks]

Bumperooski.



I just saw the title of this thread and completely fell outta my chair laughing. I have tears.:ursofunny

You and your negative threads.:lol

[notofworks]

I just saw the title of this thread and completely fell outta my chair laughing. I have tears.:ursofunny

You and your negative threads.:lol


I just tried to read the title to my wife and I couldn't. She said, "Breathe" and I can't hardly do it. She had to come over and read it.

[Hoovie]

I have not read the thread.... but, my conservative Pentecostal wife is one of the most fun and happy people I have known. While we do have some disagreements and I am sure she has her days... I think she is far above average as an optimistic woman.

Bumperooski!!

[Timmy]

http://whalen.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/churchlady1.jpg

[Sam]

Are Apostolic women dour?

yeah, some of them are and some aren't.
Apostolic women are women and therefore like women from any other group.

[Praxeas]

I think it's time to purge some older threads,sheeeesh

[Sweet Pea]

Are Apostolic women dour?

yeah, some of them are and some aren't.
Apostolic women are women and therefore like women from any other group.

Wise words, Sam! :thumbsup

[pelathais]

[/B]

Wise words, Sam! :thumbsup

Dour old Sam proves this condition reaches beyond gender distinctions as well.

:ursofunny

[Sweet Pea]

I think it's time to purge some older threads,sheeeesh

Wiser words, Prax!

In all seriousness, could the threads be archived for reading purposes only? I'm thinking maybe a two year max (Even that is pushing it...) The current thread is coming up on three years old.... :girlytantrum

Just "bumping" old threads for the sake of bumping them ...... :pullhair

and I know, I know - by replying to it, I put it back at the top of page one - but I wanted to express my opinion regarding "bumping" old threads. LOl

[deadeye]

Stupid thread.

[Sam]

Not all Apostolic women are dour and dowdy and frumpy

some fall into one or more of the following categories:
stylish
modest
warm and friendly
sensuous
regal
sexy
neat
HOT!!

[notofworks]

Stupid thread.



:ursofunny:ursofunny:ursofunny


That's what's so funny about this thread...it irritates some of you so badly!!!:lol

[deadeye]

Not all Apostolic women are dour and dowdy and frumpy

some fall into one or more of the following categories:
stylish
modest
warm and friendly
sensuous
regal
sexy
neat
HOT!!

You been hanging around my wife???!!!