View Full Version : MegaFest 2013
Jason B
08-28-2013, 05:59 PM
I can't for the life of me understand why Oprah Winfrey would be invited to speak at a "Christian" conference. What does a promoted of New Age spirituality who denies that salvation is exclusively through Jesus Christ have to offer the church?
I suppose that would depend of what definition we are using by the church, it is obvious by the lineup that this is pseudo-Christianity at its finest. The whole event is put on by TD Jakes, and in addition to featuring Oprah Winfrey and her new age anti-Christian "Life class", other speakers include Creflo Dollar and Joel Osteen.
I sickened. I'm disgusted. I'm offended. This garbage isn't Christian nor Christianity. This is the church worshipping celebrities and men who are supposed to preach the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, CHRIST AND HIM CRUCIFIED, who have bowed the knee to Oprah and are just like her. Both Jakes and Osteen have become close in recent years, and both have been on Oprah's "Life class" show. Which I confess I haven't seen Jakes episode, but what I have seen are parts of Joel's along with other "spiritual leaders" and it is outright satanic deception.
Do we really have no discernment? Are there NO prophets amongst us?
n david
08-28-2013, 06:20 PM
I've come to expect as much from Jakes. His Megafest is more about making Megamoney than it is about the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
seekerman
08-28-2013, 06:47 PM
I can't for the life of me understand why Oprah Winfrey would be invited to speak at a "Christian" conference. What does a promoted of New Age spirituality who denies that salvation is exclusively through Jesus Christ have to offer the church?
I suppose that would depend of what definition we are using by the church, it is obvious by the lineup that this is pseudo-Christianity at its finest. The whole event is put on by TD Jakes, and in addition to featuring Oprah Winfrey and her new age anti-Christian "Life class", other speakers include Creflo Dollar and Joel Osteen.
I sickened. I'm disgusted. I'm offended. This garbage isn't Christian nor Christianity. This is the church worshipping celebrities and men who are supposed to preach the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, CHRIST AND HIM CRUCIFIED, who have bowed the knee to Oprah and are just like her. Both Jakes and Osteen have become close in recent years, and both have been on Oprah's "Life class" show. Which I confess I haven't seen Jakes episode, but what I have seen are parts of Joel's along with other "spiritual leaders" and it is outright satanic deception.
Do we really have no discernment? Are there NO prophets amongst us?
I'm surprised that Jakes included Oprah as a speaker. I can understand Dollar and Osteen, at least they're promoters of Jesus Christ as Lord and savior. Oprah on the other hand doesn't proclaim Him as such, I don't think.
Until God raises someone who has signs and wonders following their ministry, the message of Jesus Christ will not be very effective I'm afraid. Until then, it's just another philosophy competing with the various new age and anti-christian philosophies.
RandyWayne
08-28-2013, 07:20 PM
This "Christian" conference being discusses sounds an awful lot like nothing more then the type of place someone goes to when they want to feel like a "winner". . . .
. . . . . before waking up on a park bench in Vegas after having sold all your hair to a wig shop.
KWSS1976
08-28-2013, 07:24 PM
Love that commercial Randy too funny
Jason B
08-28-2013, 11:17 PM
This "Christian" conference being discusses sounds an awful lot like nothing more then the type of place someone goes to when they want to feel like a "winner". . . .
. . . . . before waking up on a park bench in Vegas after having sold all your hair to a wig shop.
Choose your words carefully Randy, if you speak out against it you'll be accused of being sour and having a bad spirit. Just go with the flow man. Don't rock the boat.
Jason B
08-28-2013, 11:18 PM
I've come to expect as much from Jakes. His Megafest is more about making Megamoney than it is about the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Its not about money. Tickets only range from $63 to $253 per person.
I guess it is a little ironic that the event is being held in the Dallas Mavs arena, and it costs more to go to a church conference than a Mavs game, but hey, What Would Jesus Do, right?
Jason B
08-28-2013, 11:24 PM
I saw a YouTube video slamming Steve Furtick for his ignite conference, which was only $700 per person (non refundable for any reason). But it was only $500per person if you registered early. So by comparison I guess $250 isn't that bad. I guess they say its all relative.
RandyWayne
08-28-2013, 11:29 PM
I saw a YouTube video slamming Steve Furtick for his ignite conference, which was only $700 per person (non refundable for any reason). But it was only $500per person if you registered early. So by comparison I guess $250 isn't that bad. I guess they say its all relative.
Man, $700. . . . I could buy a nice Glock 26 WITH a (nice) holster and a few hundred rounds of ammo for that price.
Jason B
08-28-2013, 11:35 PM
Man, $700. . . . I could buy a nice Glock 26 WITH a (nice) holster and a few hundred rounds of ammo for that price.
Or get a "Word from God"*
*no refunds if you discern the word did not actually come from God.
Sister Alvear
08-29-2013, 06:12 AM
too bad so many have wandered so far from Him that said....Freely give....Yes, I do know things cost however Jakes has lost the "REAL" sound.....Of course that is my opinion.
too bad so many have wandered so far from Him that said....Freely give....Yes, I do know things cost however Jakes has lost the "REAL" sound.....Of course that is my opinion.
Yes, Sis. A...we can't turn on the church lights with a word of prophecy and an unknown tongue.
And I agree that Jakes has lost the 'real' sound.
The fact of the matter is this...there is a certain sound to everything, good and bad, right and wrong.
After many years of watching the rise of TD Jakes, and at one time buying his videos and tapes, I can say that he is as far from a godly spiritual leader as one can get.
His alignment with OW, who clearly is not Christian in her beliefs...JO, who believes...just what does he believe?
This and more has caused me to believe the bishop has lost the ability to hear the sound of the hammer ringing as they nailed our Lord to the Cross.
In it's place can be heard the cheering crowd and the clang of the coins hitting the money box.
It's tragic...
renee819
08-29-2013, 08:26 AM
Yes Barb, It is tragic. But it shows their true colors more than before.
It's too bad that the world links those false prophets with Pentecost.
n david
08-29-2013, 08:47 AM
I've watched VHS of Jakes preaching before Potters House and before he became famous. It's sad to see how money and fame have turned him into a fraud.
IMO, he'll be very influential in turning people away from God and towards the anti-Christ. His close association with Winfrey and her ilk is just another step towards that direction.
houston
08-29-2013, 06:42 PM
This is streaming now...
But I'm watching the Texans game
Jason B
08-29-2013, 09:15 PM
This is streaming now...
But I'm watching the Texans game
Pre season football or MegaFest......not sure which one is the bigger waste of time.
houston
08-30-2013, 01:19 AM
Pre season football or MegaFest......not sure which one is the bigger waste of time.
Nothing else on worth watching. I mostly twidled my thumbs. It's funny how serious people are about football... Almost as if they'd die for their favorite team.
#TexansNation
Jack Shephard
08-30-2013, 04:07 PM
Did anyone listen to what Oprah had to say? I am prertty sure that she was there to talk about the inner city, a business mindset, and other leadership points? Megafest doesn't have to have every session about "having a church service." I remember John Maxwell being at BOTT...I am sure that his session wasn't all about God, "the gospel" or "the truth."
Be offended if you want to be, but if you are that offended then don't go to it. Don't give it your attention. Shake it off and don't worry about it.
Jason B
08-30-2013, 05:49 PM
Did anyone listen to what Oprah had to say? I am prertty sure that she was there to talk about the inner city, a business mindset, and other leadership points?
Be offended if you want to be, but if you are that offended then don't go to it. Don't give it your attention. Shake it off and don't worry about it.
Famous last words of the compromising and deceived.
houston
08-30-2013, 07:40 PM
Well now...
Did anyone listen to what Oprah had to say? I am prertty sure that she was there to talk about the inner city, a business mindset, and other leadership points? Megafest doesn't have to have every session about "having a church service." I remember John Maxwell being at BOTT...I am sure that his session wasn't all about God, "the gospel" or "the truth."
Be offended if you want to be, but if you are that offended then don't go to it. Don't give it your attention. Shake it off and don't worry about it.
From the Miami Herald: On Thursday, Oprah Winfrey will be joined by Jakes as she films a new episode of her television series "Oprah's Lifeclass." Jakes said their discussion will include the issue of children who are growing up without fathers in their lives.
Jason B
08-31-2013, 07:56 AM
From the Miami Herald: On Thursday, Oprah Winfrey will be joined by Jakes as she films a new episode of her television series "Oprah's Lifeclass." Jakes said their discussion will include the issue of children who are growing up without fathers in their lives.
Does anyone else find it ironic and hypocritical that Oprah (who pushes the gay agenda) is talking about the family?
Isn't this speaking out of both sides of your mouth? Destroy the family by championing gay marriage then come to a Christian conference (as a New Ager) and talk about the role of the father. Oprah supports 2 women being married and adopting or birthing a child by artificial insemination, where's the role of the father in that?
I stand amazed and really saddened by how gullible and naive a lot of Christians are. It shouldn't bother me. I should just blow it off and I try not to care. But it grieves me, I can't help it. Makes nearly feel like weeping.
houston
08-31-2013, 09:09 AM
Oprah who will not marry Stedman because she doesn't know if she is going to love him a year from now.
n david
08-31-2013, 10:30 AM
Did anyone listen to what Oprah had to say? I am prertty sure that she was there to talk about the inner city, a business mindset, and other leadership points? Megafest doesn't have to have every session about "having a church service." I remember John Maxwell being at BOTT...I am sure that his session wasn't all about God, "the gospel" or "the truth."
Be offended if you want to be, but if you are that offended then don't go to it. Don't give it your attention. Shake it off and don't worry about it.
Are you seriously trying to compare Winfrey with John Maxwell?!? Maxwell is a Pastor and Christian; Winfrey is completely against Christianity.
There's no comparison!
Does anyone else find it ironic and hypocritical that Oprah (who pushes the gay agenda) is talking about the family?
Isn't this speaking out of both sides of your mouth? Destroy the family by championing gay marriage then come to a Christian conference (as a New Ager) and talk about the role of the father. Oprah supports 2 women being married and adopting or birthing a child by artificial insemination, where's the role of the father in that?
I stand amazed and really saddened by how gullible and naive a lot of Christians are. It shouldn't bother me. I should just blow it off and I try not to care. But it grieves me, I can't help it. Makes nearly feel like weeping.
It grieves me as well...
Jason B
08-31-2013, 11:06 AM
Did anyone listen to what Oprah had to say? I am prertty sure that she was there to talk about the inner city, a business mindset, and other leadership points? Megafest doesn't have to have every session about "having a church service." I remember John Maxwell being at BOTT...I am sure that his session wasn't all about God, "the gospel" or "the truth."
Be offended if you want to be, but if you are that offended then don't go to it. Don't give it your attention. Shake it off and don't worry about it.
What else would she talk about?
Jesus as the Savior of mankind, the Majesty of the Holy One? Righteousness? Thankfulness to God? Obviously none of the above or anything else in that category.
Is she going to spew blatant New Ageism? Doubtful.
So of course shes going to speak about some general life lessons. The awkward thing isn't that she spoke on that but the fact that she has no credibility in that area. Has she ever had a successful marriage? Raised children in that context? She won't marry the man she's with (we old fashion folks call that fornication, used not to let known open unrepentant fornicators address the assembly, but its obviously a"new day"). And she pushes the gay agenda which destroys traditional (and more importantly Biblical) values and breaks down the family unit. Then she comes to speak to 30,000 Christians about "the family?!"
One more thing....why is Bill O Reilly a racist for making a big deal about the
traditional family, but when Oprah says the same thing its celebrated? Double standard.
And in this context (O Reilly) would have more credibility, at least he believes Jesus is the Savior. (I'm not suggestion BOR should have spoke instead of OW).
Oprah's "Life Class" inst a life class at all. She incorporates some basic truths we all now are good in our lives, weaves in New Age philosophy and religion, and basically tells people they can find completeness and wholeness apart from God even the Savior Jesus Christ. Its a damnable lie, and therefore what is said to bring life brings death and damnation. Its not a "Life Class" its a "Death Class".
Why would ANY pastor, any true shepherd who Cates for the sheep risk allow that prophet of death to speak to their people? I know she amongst the east people I'd suggest the people in my church go listen to. Especially under the auspices and authority of a Christian conference.
Jason B
08-31-2013, 11:11 AM
I'm reading through my posts and seeing lots of typos and words that don't make sense. I just got a new phone and apparently equipped with auto correct. Now I see why people get frustrated with it. I'll have to figure out how to turn it off.
n david
08-31-2013, 11:20 AM
Oprah's "Life Class" inst a life class at all. She incorporates some basic truths we all now are good in our lives, weaves in New Age philosophy and religion, and basically tells people they can find completeness and wholeness apart from God even the Savior Jesus Christ. Its a damnable lie, and therefore what is said to bring life brings death and damnation. Its not a "Life Class" its a "Death Class". Absolutely! Awesome post.
Why would ANY pastor, any true shepherd who Cates for the sheep risk allow that prophet of death to speak to their people? I know she amongst the east people I'd suggest the people in my church go listen to. Especially under the auspices and authority of a Christian conference.
Spot on!
Dedicated Mind
09-02-2013, 01:39 PM
this forum is pathetic. let the haters hate. td jakes is doing more to spread the gospel and help the poor than any man alive. you need resources to do that. narrow minded fundamentalists don't have an impact and do not reflect the true spirit of christ.
Whole Hearted
09-02-2013, 01:43 PM
T D Fakes isn't doing anything for the kingdom of God. He is just building his own little kingdom.
seekerman
09-02-2013, 01:47 PM
T D Fakes isn't doing anything for the kingdom of God. He is just building his own little kingdom.
You're talking about 99% of romanist christianity.
houston
09-02-2013, 01:57 PM
T D Fakes isn't doing anything for the kingdom of God. He is just building his own little kingdom.
How many people do YOU reach on a weekly basis?
At the end of the service Jakes spoke about Jesus and against sin.
n david
09-02-2013, 02:20 PM
At the end of the service Jakes spoke about Jesus and against sin.
So does Fred Phelps and Westboro...
houston
09-02-2013, 02:56 PM
So does Fred Phelps and Westboro...
Relevance?
n david
09-02-2013, 03:32 PM
Relevance?
You wrote it like it meant something. Point is, there are a lot of people who do that....doesn't mean they're right.
houston
09-02-2013, 04:19 PM
You wrote it like it meant something. Point is, there are a lot of people who do that....doesn't mean they're right.
We're discussing Jakes.
Jason B
09-02-2013, 08:04 PM
this forum is pathetic. let the haters hate. td jakes is doing more to spread the gospel and help the poor than any man alive. you need resources to do that. narrow minded fundamentalists don't have an impact and do not reflect the true spirit of christ.
1. TD Jakes isn't spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ. He is building his own kingdom.
2. Helping the poor is a noble thing for anyone to do. Christians have traditionally lead the way, and most of them would fall in the category "fundamentalist". Those nasty fundies built orphanages, hospitals, fed the poor,
and did the majority of social related work in Christian history. Really liberals never leave any lasting legacy in Christianity except destruction and decay of the faith generally within a couple generations. What long lasting (200+ years) positive legacy has liberalism ever left the church?
3. You don't have a clue what you're talking about if you think conservatives don't reach put to the poor, the imprisoned, the homeless, the oppressed.
Jason B
09-02-2013, 08:32 PM
How many people do YOU reach on a weekly basis?
At the end of the service Jakes spoke about Jesus and against sin.
I didn't hear Jakes speak and so cannot comment. But I question how serious he is about denouncing sin since he allows Deion Sanders and Micheal Irvin in his pulpit, choose to bring Creflo Dollar (he who runs through money on the altar and says pay tithes or get shot), Joel Osteen (who says he doesn't speak about sin in his ministry, which I'm still trying to figure out how that's compatible with a Spirit anointed ministry as per John 16:8), and since Jakes himself implied that Muslims and homosexuals could be the "other sheep" Jesus spoke about . (Ummm, actually that's pretty simple, the other sheep were Gentiles not Muslims who deny Christ was crucified and homosexuals of whom Paul says "do NOT be deceived.....homosexuals...shall not inherit the Kingdom of God.").
So for these reasons and more I don't have any confidence in Jakes. I think he's a wolf sheep's clothing. I think he's the type of false teacher Jesus warned about in Matt 7 and we are told to judge by their fruit.
We tend to equivocate fruit with success or size. But the test of a true man of God is faithfulness to God and His Word, not #s of followers.
It is easy to talk about sin in vague general terms. Everyone knows they've sinned. Sin isn't a bad word or dangerous. It won't even stir people up to say turn away from your sins. But start defining sin then tell people to repent and its a whole nother story. That is the place of the man of God. To make a distinction between the holy and unholy, to cry out against sin, to cause people to hear God's Words (which always includes turning from sin,per Jeremiah14 & 23). And to then to bring healing and reconciliation. There can be no healing unless sin is honestly dealt with.
houston
09-02-2013, 08:51 PM
Agreed
n david
09-02-2013, 10:12 PM
We're discussing Jakes.
Doesn't matter, the statement still applies.
houston
09-02-2013, 11:17 PM
Doesn't matter, the statement still applies.
Please stay on topic.
n david
09-03-2013, 06:44 AM
This is streaming now...
But I'm watching the Texans game
Nothing else on worth watching. I mostly twidled my thumbs. It's funny how serious people are about football... Almost as if they'd die for their favorite team.
#TexansNation
Oprah who will not marry Stedman because she doesn't know if she is going to love him a year from now.
Please stay on topic.
Ha! Says the guy posting about football and OW's love life.
You just can't give a solid argument against what I posted, so you obfuscate and demand I stay on topic. I am on topic. It was a direct response to your post.
At the end of the service Jakes spoke about Jesus and against sin.
So does Fred Phelps and Westboro...
Relevance?
You wrote it like it meant something. Point is, there are a lot of people who do that....doesn't mean they're right.
We're discussing Jakes.
Doesn't matter, the statement still applies.
Please stay on topic.
"At the end of the service Jakes spoke about Jesus and against sin." So does Westboro. So do a lot of people, but it doesn't mean they're right.
houston
09-03-2013, 10:04 AM
Has nothing to do with the convo that you killed.
n david
09-03-2013, 10:30 AM
Has nothing to do with the convo that you killed.
Whatever, houston. You talked about football and Oprah's love life. At least I stayed in the context of the conversation.
If you can't argue the point, just say so; don't play dumb and whine about going off topic, especially when you did so yourself.
Hi pot, this is the kettle...
houston
09-03-2013, 10:33 AM
Whatever, houston. You talked about football and Oprah's love life. At least I stayed in the context of the conversation.
If you can't argue the point, just say so; don't play dumb and whine about going off topic, especially when you did so yourself.
Hi pot, this is the kettle...
Oprah was at Mega Fest. Was Phelps there?
Why do you keep carrying on? Do you want a scooby snack? Maybe Prax could pat you on the back.
n david
09-03-2013, 11:13 AM
Oprah was at Mega Fest. Was Phelps there?
Why do you keep carrying on? Do you want a scooby snack? Maybe Prax could pat you on the back.
I bet the "#TexansNation?" was there signing autographs, right? Doubt they were, but hey, Joe, Babyface, Brandy, Tamara Braxton, and Jennifer Hudson were there for a MegaFest concert.
Bottom line, it doesn't matter if Phelps was or wasn't there. The statement you made, "Jakes talked about Jesus and against sin," doesn't depend on location or whether or not someone was at MegaFest.
Why can't you simply admit I'm right. Who cares that Jakes talked about Jesus and against sin at the end of a service. Half the lineup of MegaFest were secular, and his promotion of them negated the effectiveness of trying to talk about Jesus or against sin.
It's almost laughable... "Don't sin! Better live godly! Oh btw, right after this service we're having a concert featuring secular R&B artists Joe, Babyface, Brandy, Tamara Braxton and Jennifer Hudson. Gonna get our grind on, praise the Lord."
Jason B
09-03-2013, 06:54 PM
It's almost laughable... "Don't sin! Better live godly! Oh btw, right after this service we're having a concert featuring secular R&B artists Joe, Babyface, Brandy, Tamara Braxton and Jennifer Hudson. Gonna get our grind on, praise the Lord."
Never heard of these people except maybe Brandy. So they had a concert featuring secular artists?
n david
09-03-2013, 09:35 PM
Never heard of these people except maybe Brandy. So they had a concert featuring secular artists?
Yes, it was for the "Women Thou Art Loosed" line of MegaFest.
houston
09-03-2013, 10:47 PM
Do you know what they sang?
Truthseeker
09-04-2013, 07:01 AM
Just the fact Oprah participated is enough, but a list of secular singers says a lot.
Nitehawk013
09-04-2013, 07:35 AM
Mega fest is tailored towrads a certain group of people clearly. Within the african american culture today, somehow they can seamlessly mix the holy and profane without any sense of disgust. Hence the popularity of Tyler Perry movies. A hint of spirituality and traditional values sprinkled over trash. Comedians like Steve Harvey, who talks smut and cusses liek a sailor at times...but then turns on the "Jesus" when he spoke at Mega-Fest a few years back. Artists like Kirk Franklin inviting all sorts of black R&B singers, who clearly don't show any Christ to the world in their music, to sing gospel with him back in the day.
Somehow the idea of holiness is dead and buried within much of their church culture. Either that, or they simply choose to celebrate the carnal nature instead of trying to crucify it and walk in the spirit. Either way, you can't be surprised that Mega Fest has so much non-Christian nonsense spread throughout it. Jakes knows his "customers" and gives them what they want.
Jack Shephard
09-04-2013, 07:50 AM
Are you seriously trying to compare Winfrey with John Maxwell?!? Maxwell is a Pastor and Christian; Winfrey is completely against Christianity.
There's no comparison!
No. All I am saying is that Maxwell wasn't apart of the Ark, UPCI, when he spoke at BOTT. Likewise, Oprah isn't apart of the or any Ark. She does however have a lot of knowledge and info that can help people that come to one of these events like Megafest. It is all to serve a purpose. Maxwell was there to teach about finance & leadership... Oprah was there in a similar fashion. That is all I was comparing.
n david
09-04-2013, 08:00 AM
No. All I am saying is that Maxwell wasn't apart of the Ark, UPCI, when he spoke at BOTT. Likewise, Oprah isn't apart of the or any Ark. She does however have a lot of knowledge and info that can help people that come to one of these events like Megafest. It is all to serve a purpose. Maxwell was there to teach about finance & leadership... Oprah was there in a similar fashion. That is all I was comparing.
What knowledge does Oprah have about raising kids? She has none. Maxwell is a proven business leader; Oprah is a talk show host with no husband and no kids.
Again, the comparison/non-comparison you're giving doesn't work.
Jack Shephard
09-04-2013, 08:10 AM
What else would she talk about?
Jesus as the Savior of mankind, the Majesty of the Holy One? Righteousness? Thankfulness to God? Obviously none of the above or anything else in that category.
Is she going to spew blatant New Ageism? Doubtful.
So of course shes going to speak about some general life lessons. The awkward thing isn't that she spoke on that but the fact that she has no credibility in that area. Has she ever had a successful marriage? Raised children in that context? She won't marry the man she's with (we old fashion folks call that fornication, used not to let known open unrepentant fornicators address the assembly, but its obviously a"new day"). And she pushes the gay agenda which destroys traditional (and more importantly Biblical) values and breaks down the family unit. Then she comes to speak to 30,000 Christians about "the family?!"
One more thing....why is Bill O Reilly a racist for making a big deal about the
traditional family, but when Oprah says the same thing its celebrated? Double standard.
And in this context (O Reilly) would have more credibility, at least he believes Jesus is the Savior. (I'm not suggestion BOR should have spoke instead of OW).
Oprah's "Life Class" inst a life class at all. She incorporates some basic truths we all now are good in our lives, weaves in New Age philosophy and religion, and basically tells people they can find completeness and wholeness apart from God even the Savior Jesus Christ. Its a damnable lie, and therefore what is said to bring life brings death and damnation. Its not a "Life Class" its a "Death Class".
Why would ANY pastor, any true shepherd who Cates for the sheep risk allow that prophet of death to speak to their people? I know she amongst the east people I'd suggest the people in my church go listen to. Especially under the auspices and authority of a Christian conference.
Jason, consider the audience that goes to these events. I am not referring to the race of the people there, but the social & economical situations of those that go. I have wathced several sessions in prior years and many of the individuals there are single women & single men. Single in that they aren't married, but many of them may have children. This was never more evideny than when Jakes preached the message, "Woman Thou Art Loosed" at one of the first MF conferences. It was such a revolutionary to the women that were there that night that it launched a movement, and new conference from it. Oprah doesn't have a lot of knowledge of the "traditional" family as you have described. But you know what...she does have A LOT of knowledge of being raised by a single, teenage mother. She was born in MS, lived in the inner city in Milwaukee, was sent to Nashville to live with the person she now considers her father while she was in high school. Man, to her, the "family" that she is speaking to is something that is right up her alley. So reagardless of what you feel the "family" should look like it isn't the reality to MOST of the crowd there. So her being there was for a purpose & because she has knowledge in the areas needed to speak to THAT SPECIFIC crowd.
Jack Shephard
09-04-2013, 08:15 AM
What knowledge does Oprah have about raising kids? She has none. Maxwell is a proven business leader; Oprah is a talk show host with no husband and no kids.
Again, the comparison/non-comparison you're giving doesn't work.
You are missing the point - totally. Teaching on the FAMILY isn't teaching about KIDS only. You have zero idea to whether she spoke about having kids or how to deal with the emotions of having been raised by a single mother/father that was affectionate, but absent a lot because he/she was trying to care for the kids financially. Remember, N David, that family isn't a linear thing. It is something that has many branches. Everyone is someone's child, everyone has the potential to also be a parent, husband, wife, etc... Oprah has knowledge can help a lot of people. If her knowledge isn't something that would have helped you or fit whatever agenda you feel should have been pushed at MF then I think it was a good thing you didn't attend then.
:throwrock
Jack Shephard
09-04-2013, 08:26 AM
Mega fest is tailored towrads a certain group of people clearly. Within the african american culture today, somehow they can seamlessly mix the holy and profane without any sense of disgust. Hence the popularity of Tyler Perry movies. A hint of spirituality and traditional values sprinkled over trash. Comedians like Steve Harvey, who talks smut and cusses liek a sailor at times...but then turns on the "Jesus" when he spoke at Mega-Fest a few years back. Artists like Kirk Franklin inviting all sorts of black R&B singers, who clearly don't show any Christ to the world in their music, to sing gospel with him back in the day.
Somehow the idea of holiness is dead and buried within much of their church culture. Either that, or they simply choose to celebrate the carnal nature instead of trying to crucify it and walk in the spirit. Either way, you can't be surprised that Mega Fest has so much non-Christian nonsense spread throughout it. Jakes knows his "customers" and gives them what they want.
Steve Harvey has stated at some of his events that he is trying to not cuss, but states there are cuss appropriate moments. My mother was the most Godly women I have ever seen. She had a saying, "Sometimes there is no word that fits a situation like the word sh!t..." Please do not act as if cussing is a sinful thing. It isn't. It is however sinful to people that want to use it as a method of "control." The people that you have mentioned here are people that have accomplished a lot financially as well as helped people, changed lives for the better.
People on this forum should know that there is a place where flesh meets the spiritual. Not everyone in this world are way on the spiritual side. Many are in the middle. I am quite certain that Jakes and others aren't having these events for the charter saints from every movement. The target is the group in the middle.
n david
09-04-2013, 09:03 AM
You are missing the point - totally. Teaching on the FAMILY isn't teaching about KIDS only. You have zero idea to whether she spoke about having kids or how to deal with the emotions of having been raised by a single mother/father that was affectionate, but absent a lot because he/she was trying to care for the kids financially. Remember, N David, that family isn't a linear thing. It is something that has many branches. Everyone is someone's child, everyone has the potential to also be a parent, husband, wife, etc... Oprah has knowledge can help a lot of people. If her knowledge isn't something that would have helped you or fit whatever agenda you feel should have been pushed at MF then I think it was a good thing you didn't attend then.
:throwrock
No need to throw rocks. :) I'll agree I wasn't there and don't know what she spoke about. However, as has been mentioned, her lifestyle and her belief is (hopefully) 100% against what a Christian leader like Jakes should promote. Maxwell was a Pastor and is a Christian, regardless of not being UPC, he was a Christian and believes in many of the same principles which POA believes in. Winfrey is not a Christian, and doesn't not believe in Biblical values. She promotes LGBT lifestyle and has been very dishonest in her role as a talk show host.
But at the end of the day, it's as Nitehawk013 said: the AA community doesn't care about her beliefs or lies. She's one of them and somehow has become very successful in spite of her lies. They have no qualms mixing the holy and profane, which is why MegaFest included OW and had a concert lineup of secular R&B artists.
n david
09-04-2013, 09:10 AM
Steve Harvey has stated at some of his events that he is trying to not cuss, but states there are cuss appropriate moments. My mother was the most Godly women I have ever seen. She had a saying, "Sometimes there is no word that fits a situation like the word (expletive deleted)..." Please do not act as if cussing is a sinful thing. It isn't.
There are never cuss appropriate moments for Christians. Sorry, there aren't. To use an oft-quoted saying, "that's a lie from the pit." It's simply not true. The Bible says blessings and cursing cannot come from the same mouth. Read James 3, it contradicts your statement; as does Ps 19:14.
Jason B
09-04-2013, 09:18 AM
Jason, consider the audience that goes to these events. I am not referring to the race of the people there, but the social & economical situations of those that go. I have wathced several sessions in prior years and many of the individuals there are single women & single men. Single in that they aren't married, but many of them may have children. This was never more evideny than when Jakes preached the message, "Woman Thou Art Loosed" at one of the first MF conferences. It was such a revolutionary to the women that were there that night that it launched a movement, and new conference from it. Oprah doesn't have a lot of knowledge of the "traditional" family as you have described. But you know what...she does have A LOT of knowledge of being raised by a single, teenage mother. She was born in MS, lived in the inner city in Milwaukee, was sent to Nashville to live with the person she now considers her father while she was in high school. Man, to her, the "family" that she is speaking to is something that is right up her alley. So reagardless of what you feel the "family" should look like it isn't the reality to MOST of the crowd there. So her being there was for a purpose & because she has knowledge in the areas needed to speak to THAT SPECIFIC crowd.
Big deal. I should tell you about my "family" life growing up. Those circumstances aren't unique to Oprah as is evident by the crowd you cited. Is there not one single redeemed individual they could have to speak about overcoming a broken family life and the resulting struggles, bondage, and even addictions through Christ? To say nothing of how that type of life tends to repeat itself in the people who experienced it as children when they become adults, and again the answer is Christ. Not verbal homage to Him but a surrendered life.
It is my view and experience that a lot of those people transition from failed relationship to failed relationship never really figuring out that if they will concentrate on strengthening their relationship with Christ their human relationships would improve. There's a lot of passing the buck and blame game in that culture. Women blame men (hence Jakes popularity) men say they can't find a good woman (biblical submission is a concept non grata) and since even amongst the church folk they are so intertwined with pop culture their values, ambitions, and beliefs about social life tend to reflect the lyrics of hip hop artists rather than the inspired scripture.
There are answers for all such people, and they are found only in Jesus Christ. They can listen to Oprah but her advice won't help much in the long run, perhaps a nugget here and there. They can listen to Creflo Dollar, but his prosperity gospel just feeds the covetous nature of people and causes confusion about the real nature of God and certainly destroys the biblical teaching of grace. Joel Osteen may help them think positively, and there's no doubt we all need to do that, but when the pressures of life come, when your in a bad fight and another relationship is spiraling out of control, positive thinking won't be a rock or of much encouragement, people need to know that Jesus is their Rock and the one who will never forsake them. Pop culture preachers need to talk about the dangers and sin of shacking up. To avoid fornication, babies out of wedlock, babies without fathers, the emotional pain and scars that does to a person when the relationship fails, the confusion it causes for the kids who are bounced from home shack up to the next, and then how the cycle repeats itself in the lives of the children who've been brought up to think such behavior is normal.
The people at MegaFest that you describe who "needed to hear" Oprah, actually need to hear the full gospel preached. Sin condemned by name. Repentance defined and explained the importance of walking with God by faith. That salvation is by grace (a lot of these people have ael mentality that easily fails into believing they need to learn approval, whether it be from a man or from God, and Creflo's teaching on tithing and prosperity just feeds that mentality). They need to be taught about the biblical responsibilities and roles of mother's, fathers, children, older women, older men, young women, young men, etc.
What they need is the life giving anointed Word of God, not celebrities posing as phycologists who can fix their problems with good advice.
Jack Shephard
09-04-2013, 09:19 AM
No need to throw rocks. :) I'll agree I wasn't there and don't know what she spoke about. However, as has been mentioned, her lifestyle and her belief is (hopefully) 100% against what a Christian leader like Jakes should promote. Maxwell was a Pastor and is a Christian, regardless of not being UPC, he was a Christian and believes in many of the same principles which POA believes in. Winfrey is not a Christian, and doesn't not believe in Biblical values. She promotes LGBT lifestyle and has been very dishonest in her role as a talk show host.
But at the end of the day, it's as Nitehawk013 said: the AA community doesn't care about her beliefs or lies. She's one of them and somehow has become very successful in spite of her lies. They have no qualms mixing the holy and profane, which is why MegaFest included OW and had a concert lineup of secular R&B artists.
Truth and proper life teachings can come from someone that doesn't have the morals that you or I agree with. A true statement is a true statement regardless of the mouth that speaks it. Hitler said, "As a Christian
I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice." Consider the source here. Hitler was horrible, but what he said here is true... as a christian we have a duty to for truth and justice.
Jack Shephard
09-04-2013, 09:20 AM
There are never cuss appropriate moments for Christians. Sorry, there aren't. To use an oft-quoted saying, "that's a lie from the pit." It's simply not true. The Bible says blessings and cursing cannot come from the same mouth. Read James 3, it contradicts your statement; as does Ps 19:14.
The cursings talked about here aren't what is considered "curse words" here in America. Seriously... that is like saying that the term "blessings" iin that verse is talking about when someone says, "bless you" when someone sneezes... Your statement above is dumb.
houston
09-04-2013, 09:22 AM
Wow, Jason.
Jason B
09-04-2013, 09:29 AM
You are missing the point - totally. Teaching on the FAMILY isn't teaching about KIDS only. You have zero idea to whether she spoke about having kids or how to deal with the emotions of having been raised by a single mother/father that was affectionate, but absent a lot because he/she was trying to care for the kids financially. Remember, N David, that family isn't a linear thing. It is something that has many branches. Everyone is someone's child, everyone has the potential to also be a parent, husband, wife, etc... Oprah has knowledge can help a lot of people. If her knowledge isn't something that would have helped you or fit whatever agenda you feel should have been pushed at MF then I think it was a good thing you didn't attend then.
:throwrock
I bet the Dhali Lama had some knowledge that could help people. I bet Richard Dawkins has some knowledge that can help people. I bet even Brittany Spears had some knowledge that could help people. We all learn life lessons and most anyone could help someone else by simply relating their experiences. I guess what determines the validity of your experience is whether you are a celebrity or not.
Remember MegaFest is supposed to be (and promoted as) a Christian gathering. The fact is American Christianity is so foreign to Biblical Christianity that the masses are not bothered by the mixing of Christianity and worldliness. Just like when Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire. It exploded numerically but it was spiritual suicide. So is what goes on today in America in the name of Christianity. Oh but look at the numbers. Big deal, anywhere in history Christianity has bowed the knee to ungodly culture the numbers were always there.
n david
09-04-2013, 09:43 AM
The cursings talked about here aren't what is considered "curse words" here in America. Seriously... that is like saying that the term "blessings" in that verse is talking about when someone says, "bless you" when someone sneezes... Your statement above is dumb.
So when you use your expletive, you're really meaning it in a good way, right; you mean as a term of affection or endearment? When someone angers you and you use curse words, you're just relating good will and encouragement?
And you state my comment is dumb? I disagree that the root of the word cursing is all that different from the curse words you utter. It's not done out of good will. It's done with malice, anger, hatred...none of which are examples of a Christian. You cannot, as the passage says, have both sweet and bitter waters.
This acceptance of Christians using curse words is more of the watering down of Christianity. Anything goes. No need for any kind of separation from the world.
Jack Shephard
09-04-2013, 09:53 AM
Big deal. I should tell you about my "family" life growing up. Those circumstances aren't unique to Oprah as is evident by the crowd you cited. Is there not one single redeemed individual they could have to speak about overcoming a broken family life and the resulting struggles, bandage, and even addictions through Christ? To say nothing of how that type of life tends to repeat itself in the people who experienced it as children when they become adults, and again the answer is Christ. Not verbal homage to Him but a surrendered life.
It is my view and experience that a lot of those people transition from failed relationship to failed relationship never really figuring out that if they will concentrate on strengthening their relationship with Christ their human relationships would improve. There's a lot of passing the buck and blame game in that culture. Women blame men (hence Jakes popularity) men say they can't find a good woman (biblical submission is a concept non grata) and since even amongst the church folk they are so intertwined with pop culture their values, ambitions, and beliefs about social life tend to reflect the lyrics of hip hop artists rather than the inspired scripture.
There are answers for all such people, and they are found only in Jesus Christ. They can listen to Oprah but her advice won't help much in the long run, perhaps a nugget here and there. They can listen to Creflo Dollar, but his prosperity gospel just feeds the covetous nature of people and causes confusion about the real nature of God and certainly destroys the biblical teaching of grace. Joel Osteen may help them think positively, and there's no doubt we all need to do that, but when the pressures of life come, when your in a bad fight and another relationship is spiraling out of control, positive thinking won't be a rock or of much encouragement, people need to know that Jesus is their Rock and the one who will never forsake them. Pop culture preachers need to talk about the dangers and din of shacking up. To avoid fornication, babies out of wedlock, babies without fathers, the emotional pain and scars that does to a person when the relationship fails, the confusion it causes for the kids who are bounced from home shack up to the next, and then how the cycle repeats itself in the lives of the children who've been brought up to think such behavior is normal.
The people at MegaFest that you describe who "needed to hear" Oprah, actually need to hear the full gospel preached. Sin condemned by name. Repentance defined and explained the importance of walking with God by faith. That salvation is by grace (a lot of these people have ael mentality that easily fails into believing they need to learn approval, whether it be from a man or from God, and Creflo's teaching on tithing and prosperity just feeds that mentality). They need to be taught about the biblical responsibilities and roles of mother's, fathers, children, older women, older men, young women, young men, etc.
What they need is the life giving anointed Word of God, not celebrities posing as phycologists who can fix their problems with good advice.
You have a very myopic view of what the Kingdom of God is about. It is not all about a large altar call. The people have to get in the door first. How can they be drawn in? With many different things and ideas. So for you to speak things like this about Oprah, Jakes, Osteen... it shows that you aren't happy with God speaking to people where they are at and attempting to change them you want God to ONLY speak to saved people with saved people and be a ............, unhappy saved group of people. Salvation is important, but it is not the end of the road. It is a stop along the way. Life has to be lived and it is my experience that where religion falls way short is when it teaches salvation is or as a end result of something. Salvation isn't the end of the road, but most denominations teach salvation, standards of dress or whatever as an end all be all to salvation. Salvation is a pit stop on the way from beginning of life to the end of our lives. There are stops and breakdowns all along the way man. We don't pull off the highway at Salvation Way and leave our cars idling the rest of our lives.
Jack Shephard
09-04-2013, 09:56 AM
I bet the Dhali Lama had some knowledge that could help people. I bet Richard Dawkins has some knowledge that can help people. I bet even Brittany Spears had some knowledge that could help people. We all learn life lessons and most anyone could help someone else by simply relating their experiences. I guess what determines the validity of your experience is whether you are a celebrity or not.
Remember MegaFest is supposed to be (and promoted as) a Christian gathering. The fact is American Christianity is so foreign to Biblical Christianity that the masses are not bothered by the mixing of Christianity and worldliness. Just like when Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire. It exploded numerically but it was spiritual suicide. So is what goes on today in America in the name of Christianity. Oh but look at the numbers. Big deal, anywhere in history Christianity has bowed the knee to ungodly culture the numbers were always there.
You are right! Everyone has something to say. Everyone has good info to give. If you don't want to listen to what Dhali Lama, Hawkins, or Spears has to say then close your ears and listen to noboy but Stoneking and Arnold.
Jack Shephard
09-04-2013, 10:02 AM
So when you use your expletive, you're really meaning it in a good way, right; you mean as a term of affection or endearment? When someone angers you and you use curse words, you're just relating good will and encouragement?
And you state my comment is dumb? I disagree that the root of the word cursing is all that different from the curse words you utter. It's not done out of good will. It's done with malice, anger, hatred...none of which are examples of a Christian. You cannot, as the passage says, have both sweet and bitter waters.
This acceptance of Christians using curse words is more of the watering down of Christianity. Anything goes. No need for any kind of separation from the world.
I appreciate your opinions here, but you are like a nerd that knows very little about video games, but can at least turn their Playstation on. You are talking about swear words as if it is placing a curse on someone which is ridiculous.
I actually tell some of my friends "F - you" and flip them the bird and it has become a literal term of endearment between us. But to you it woudn't be valid because it is between myself and my gay friends. So that is a double whammy on way I will spilt hell wide over. I use these words frequently. I had a conversation recently where I used these words and talked about Jesus too and guess what... people were moved to tears laughing as well as they had a legit God moment then too. So you keep your mindset the way that it is and I will keep mine the way that it is too. :heeheehee
Jason B
09-04-2013, 10:03 AM
Steve Harvey has stated at some of his events that he is trying to not cuss, but states there are cuss appropriate moments. My mother was the most Godly women I have ever seen. She had a saying, "Sometimes there is no word that fits a situation like the word sh!t..." Please do not act as if cussing is a sinful thing. It isn't. It is however sinful to people that want to use it as a method of "control." The people that you have mentioned here are people that have accomplished a lot financially as well as helped people, changed lives for the better.
There are never cuss appropriate moments for Christians. Sorry, there aren't. To use an oft-quoted saying, "that's a lie from the pit." It's simply not true. The Bible says blessings and cursing cannot come from the same mouth. Read James 3, it contradicts your statement; as does Ps 19:14.
Please don't act as if cussing is a righteous thing. Brother do you believe the Lord Jesus Christ used the equivalent of modern profanity in his culture? Whose is the example, who do we want to be like, Steve Harvey, Oprah Winfrey, or Jesus Christ? Perhaps that as big a part of the problem as anything else, is who are we pointing people to? Celebrities or Jesus Christ? Point people to Christ, preach His righteousness. Do that and NONE of us measure up, but at least we know what the standard is, and thus when we experience failure (and we ALL will) we won't accept our failure, because its the same failure of Steve Harvey, Oprah Winfrey, or even "yo mama".
As for the question of cussing, (or really how a godly person should talk in general, not just the words used, but the intent) lets consider a couple of scriptures in addition to N David's post:
Put away from thee a froward mouth, and perverse lips put far from thee.
Prov 4:24 (KJV)
If we are told to put it away from us, it would seem we should strive to do that very thing. Doesn't mean one cuss word sends us to hell, God forbid. I don't cuss, haven't since I received the Holy Ghost, but still fail at times to express myself in ways that are absolutely inline with godliness. I failed just yesterday when admonishing a store manager who works under me, in that I used the phrase "pissed off". Not a big deal to most people, not a "cuss" word by most peoples definition (including mine), but it wasn't the way a Christian should speak. I apologized to him later in the day, even though I am his superior. I fail, Steve Harvey fails, everyone fails. But when we do fail, we can't accept that failure and sanctify it, we need to own up to it, so that Christ can change us. If we say that there are "cuss appropriate moments" then I have real doubts people who subscribe to that view will ever really see total deliverance from that way of speaking in their life, because they've made it acceptable. Its OK to fail Christ at times, even "appropriate". It is NEVER appropriate to fail Christ. It happens. We should never be content to live with it.
8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. 9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; 10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Col 3:8-10 (KJV)
Would "cuss appropriate situations" including giving place to anger, wrath, malice, and filthy communication out of your mouth? I think most would agree it would. So why do we try to act like cussing isn't a big deal, and get all offended when someone suggests it is a sin. Are not these things in Colossians 3:8 "sins"? If not why warn against them, especially in the context of Colossians 3 where Paul is telling the Colossians to put off all the sinful ways of their unredeemed life.
5 Walk in wisdom toward them that are without, redeeming the time. 6 Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.
Col 4:5-6 (KJV)
Here Paul tells believers they ought always to walk with wisdom toward them that are without (outside the body of Christ) in particular Paul talks about how we as Christians talk. I wonder how cussing is consistent with "graceful speech". I'm going to go out on a limb and say cussing is never graceful, nor appropriate, no matter what anyone's mama says.
29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. 30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
Eph 4:29-31 (KJV)
It just seems so self explanatory to me. I don't understand how this is even a debated topic amongst Christians, except for to pander to the carnal nature, and to make a provision for the flesh.
Truthseeker
09-04-2013, 10:24 AM
I appreciate your opinions here, but you are like a nerd that knows very little about video games, but can at least turn their Playstation on. You are talking about swear words as if it is placing a curse on someone which is ridiculous.
I actually tell some of my friends "F - you" and flip them the bird and it has become a literal term of endearment between us. But to you it woudn't be valid because it is between myself and my gay friends. So that is a double whammy on way I will spilt hell wide over. I use these words frequently. I had a conversation recently where I used these words and talked about Jesus too and guess what... people were moved to tears laughing as well as they had a legit God moment then too. So you keep your mindset the way that it is and I will keep mine the way that it is too. :heeheehee
You are fooling yourself.
n david
09-04-2013, 10:24 AM
I appreciate your opinions here, but you are like a nerd that knows very little about video games, but can at least turn their Playstation on. You are talking about swear words as if it is placing a curse on someone which is ridiculous.
You're blinded. If you really believe James is only talking about someone placing a hex or voodoo curse on someone, you're wrong. The passage speaks of offending in word, of the tongue being full of deadly poison, and of sweet and bitter water not being able to come from the same spring. That is not speaking of a hex.
BTW the nerd analogy is lame. #fail
I actually tell some of my friends "F - you" and flip them the bird and it has become a literal term of endearment between us. But to you it woudn't be valid because it is between myself and my gay friends. So that is a double whammy on way I will spilt hell wide over. I use these words frequently. I had a conversation recently where I used these words and talked about Jesus too and guess what... people were moved to tears laughing as well as they had a legit God moment then too. So you keep your mindset the way that it is and I will keep mine the way that it is too. :heeheehee
Sad.
Truthseeker
09-04-2013, 10:26 AM
I notice it's the "liberated by grace" group that cuss, listen to ungodly music etc...all the while thinking it's grace. Some make grace look bad.
Jason B
09-04-2013, 10:29 AM
You have a very myopic view of what the Kingdom of God is about. It is not all about a large altar call. The people have to get in the door first. How can they be drawn in? With many different things and ideas.
So for you to speak things like this about Oprah, Jakes, Osteen... it shows that you aren't happy with God speaking to people where they are at and attempting to change them you want God to ONLY speak to saved people with saved people and be a ............, unhappy saved group of people.
Well you just proved you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
1)The Kingdom of God is about reconciling men to Christ, in submission to Christ, for God's will to be done in the earth as it is in heaven. The angels rejoice over one sinner who comes to repentance, not over masses of people who just came in the doors.
2)If you believe that I think God should only speak to saved people, again, you show yourself completely uninformed. I speak to unsaved people all the time. I do ministry in a place most likely to find the "most" unsaved of all people. I'm not going to talk about what I do, because its doesn't need to be discussed publically and secondly, it doesn't matter. I can't do anything without Christ.
3)Whatever you draw people with, and win them with, is what you keep them with. If you draw people through carnality, through gimmicks, through celebrities, through contest, through secular music, through provoking sermon series that push the envelope, through surveys about what they want to hear preached, through prosperity, through feeling good about themselves and positive self image, then that's how you keep them. Really you haven't helped people, you've crippled their potential for spiritual growth and given them a crutch to prop themselves up.
Salvation is important, but it is not the end of the road. It is a stop along the way.
Salvation is more than important, if we bypass salvation and try to get people to feel good about themselves in their current state without Jesus, then all we've done in solidify them in their unbelief, and make them feel sufficient and satisfied without Christ. So in theory we say we're bringing them to the Savior, but in practice we are compounding their lostness.
If someone doesn't receive Bible salvation, their not even on the road. I've never said salvation was it, that's another misunderstanding on your part, and again, I've got 4,000 posts on AFF you can look through before you make accusations and misrepresentations of my position. I think this is a common strawman thrown out that "conservatives" don't care about reaching the lost, or ministering to hurting people where they are at, it is totally false and deceitful. And I for one get sick of having it thrown at me simply because I'm biblically conservative. I'm not saying you made the charge, but your post seems to indicate this familiar strawman.
Life has to be lived and it is my experience that where religion falls way short is when it teaches salvation is or as a end result of something. Salvation isn't the end of the road, but most denominations teach salvation, standards of dress or whatever as an end all be all to salvation. Salvation is a pit stop on the way from beginning of life to the end of our lives. There are stops and breakdowns all along the way man. We don't pull off the highway at Salvation Way and leave our cars idling the rest of our lives.
Life DOES have to be lived. How is that life lived without Christ. Salvation must come FIRST not LAST. We don't draw people out on a long road where we try to minister to all their life problems, then at the end say "now that your family life is in order, now that you feel good about yourself, now that you are prospering, THIS is what it really means to be a disciple of Christ" and then teach them the gospel. NO. We start with "Except a man take up deny Himself and come after me, He cannot be my disciple." "Except a man hate his father, mother, brothers, sisters, wives, children he cannot be my disciple" "If you seek to save your life you will lose is, but if you seek to lose your life you will save it", "verily you are only here for the fishes and the loaves, but whosever will not eat my flesh and drink my blood hath no life in them" See that how Jesus did evangelism, perhaps the liberal commentator William Barclay said it best in his commentary on Mark 8:34-35
(I paraphrase from memory)
"It can never be said of Jesus that he got men to follow Him under false pretenses. He always told them to count the cost, and that it could cost them their life."
What a great statement. Jesus himself NEVER tried to get people to follow Him through false pretenses or empty promises. Look how he reacted to the crowds, by teaching them about commitment (and they all left him every time), or in Mark 1 when the crowd comes seeking Jesus after all the healings at Peter's moms house , and Jesus says "lets go to another place", and how would these Mega pastors respond to the rich young ruler? Surely he would find a prominent place of acceptance in their churches, not only was he rich but also moral. But not Jesus.
We can't use the seeker sensitive movement as our guide for evangelism, Jesus set the example. Reach out to everyone, regardless of if they are poor, afflicted, abused, addicted, dishonest, immoral, religious, etc. But always teach them what true conversion is. Always make sure they count the cost. Always make sure they understand what is involved in following Jesus. He's not interested in numbers and masses, he's interested in reconciliation of God and man.
Nitehawk013
09-04-2013, 10:30 AM
I'm not one who thinks cussing is a sin, but I do thinkit reveals a lot about the character and respect of a person who uses it. If you are a person of character, morals and have respect for yourself and others, you don't go around cussing like trashy people. I have a hard time believing one really loves God if they can't speak without popping off a bunch of cuss words.
Jason B
09-04-2013, 10:31 AM
You are right! Everyone has something to say. Everyone has good info to give. If you don't want to listen to what Dhali Lama, Hawkins, or Spears has to say then close your ears and listen to noboy but Stoneking and Arnold.
Oh this is rich. Stoneking and Arnold.
Bro. I like Paul Washer, Leonard, Ravenhill, David Wilkerson, John MacArthur, to name a few. Perhaps you should acquaint yourself with some of those men, rather than Jakes, Winfrey, Dollar.
n david
09-04-2013, 10:33 AM
Salvation is important, but it is not the end of the road. It is a stop along the way. Life has to be lived and it is my experience that where religion falls way short is when it teaches salvation is or as a end result of something. Salvation isn't the end of the road, but most denominations teach salvation, standards of dress or whatever as an end all be all to salvation. Salvation is a pit stop on the way from beginning of life to the end of our lives. There are stops and breakdowns all along the way man. We don't pull off the highway at Salvation Way and leave our cars idling the rest of our lives.
That explains a lot. "Salvation is important..." Not "salvation is essential," or "salvation is a necessity." Nah, it's "important." Just "a stop along the way."
Jason B
09-04-2013, 10:35 AM
I actually tell some of my friends "F - you" and flip them the bird and it has become a literal term of endearment between us. But to you it woudn't be valid because it is between myself and my gay friends. So that is a double whammy on way I will spilt hell wide over. I use these words frequently. I had a conversation recently where I used these words and talked about Jesus too and guess what... people were moved to tears laughing as well as they had a legit God moment then too. So you keep your mindset the way that it is and I will keep mine the way that it is too. :heeheehee
This is the definition of STRONG DELUSION.
Jack Shephard
09-04-2013, 10:58 AM
You're blinded. If you really believe James is only talking about someone placing a hex or voodoo curse on someone, you're wrong. The passage speaks of offending in word, of the tongue being full of deadly poison, and of sweet and bitter water not being able to come from the same spring. That is not speaking of a hex.
BTW the nerd analogy is lame. #fail
Sad.
Nah... nerd is more tame than the words I wanna use, but since using swear words are forbidden here and aparently in all the world too... I use the word Nerd. A curse in scripture isn't the same as saying what is considered as "cursing" today. Context convey the true meaning of a thing. Check the facts...
Jack Shephard
09-04-2013, 11:00 AM
Oh this is rich. Stoneking and Arnold.
Bro. I like Paul Washer, Leonard, Ravenhill, David Wilkerson, John MacArthur, to name a few. Perhaps you should acquaint yourself with some of those men, rather than Jakes, Winfrey, Dollar.
I know of these men. I like them. FTR, I am not a fan of Jakes, Oprah or Dollar, at all. But just because I am not a fan doesn't mean they are not vaild to some others.
Jack Shephard
09-04-2013, 11:01 AM
Please don't act as if cussing is a righteous thing. Brother do you believe the Lord Jesus Christ used the equivalent of modern profanity in his culture? Whose is the example, who do we want to be like, Steve Harvey, Oprah Winfrey, or Jesus Christ? Perhaps that as big a part of the problem as anything else, is who are we pointing people to? Celebrities or Jesus Christ? Point people to Christ, preach His righteousness. Do that and NONE of us measure up, but at least we know what the standard is, and thus when we experience failure (and we ALL will) we won't accept our failure, because its the same failure of Steve Harvey, Oprah Winfrey, or even "yo mama".
As for the question of cussing, (or really how a godly person should talk in general, not just the words used, but the intent) lets consider a couple of scriptures in addition to N David's post:
Put away from thee a froward mouth, and perverse lips put far from thee.
Prov 4:24 (KJV)
If we are told to put it away from us, it would seem we should strive to do that very thing. Doesn't mean one cuss word sends us to hell, God forbid. I don't cuss, haven't since I received the Holy Ghost, but still fail at times to express myself in ways that are absolutely inline with godliness. I failed just yesterday when admonishing a store manager who works under me, in that I used the phrase "pissed off". Not a big deal to most people, not a "cuss" word by most peoples definition (including mine), but it wasn't the way a Christian should speak. I apologized to him later in the day, even though I am his superior. I fail, Steve Harvey fails, everyone fails. But when we do fail, we can't accept that failure and sanctify it, we need to own up to it, so that Christ can change us. If we say that there are "cuss appropriate moments" then I have real doubts people who subscribe to that view will ever really see total deliverance from that way of speaking in their life, because they've made it acceptable. Its OK to fail Christ at times, even "appropriate". It is NEVER appropriate to fail Christ. It happens. We should never be content to live with it.
8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. 9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; 10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Col 3:8-10 (KJV)
Would "cuss appropriate situations" including giving place to anger, wrath, malice, and filthy communication out of your mouth? I think most would agree it would. So why do we try to act like cussing isn't a big deal, and get all offended when someone suggests it is a sin. Are not these things in Colossians 3:8 "sins"? If not why warn against them, especially in the context of Colossians 3 where Paul is telling the Colossians to put off all the sinful ways of their unredeemed life.
5 Walk in wisdom toward them that are without, redeeming the time. 6 Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.
Col 4:5-6 (KJV)
Here Paul tells believers they ought always to walk with wisdom toward them that are without (outside the body of Christ) in particular Paul talks about how we as Christians talk. I wonder how cussing is consistent with "graceful speech". I'm going to go out on a limb and say cussing is never graceful, nor appropriate, no matter what anyone's mama says.
29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. 30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
Eph 4:29-31 (KJV)
It just seems so self explanatory to me. I don't understand how this is even a debated topic amongst Christians, except for to pander to the carnal nature, and to make a provision for the flesh.
I am pretty sure Christ was pissed at the temple and there is a strong chance that He would have used words that in the day He lived weren't too... shall we say, righteous.
Jack Shephard
09-04-2013, 11:03 AM
You are fooling yourself.
Nah... pretty sure I am not fooled. I understand what I am saying.
Jack Shephard
09-04-2013, 11:03 AM
I notice it's the "liberated by grace" group that cuss, listen to ungodly music etc...all the while thinking it's grace. Some make grace look bad.
Some make grace look like it is merited favor and not unmerited favor.
n david
09-04-2013, 11:05 AM
Nah... nerd is more tame than the words I wanna use, but since using swear words are forbidden here and aparently in all the world too... I use the word Nerd. A curse in scripture isn't the same as saying what is considered as "cursing" today. Context convey the true meaning of a thing. Check the facts...
You're blind. The whole context of the first half of James 3 covers modern cursing as well. That's why it talks about offending in word, of the tongue being full of deadly poison, and of sweet and bitter water not being able to come from the same spring.
I am pretty sure Christ was ****** at the temple and there is a strong chance that He would have used words that in the day He lived weren't too... shall we say, righteous.
Oh good grief.
Truthseeker
09-04-2013, 11:12 AM
Nah... pretty sure I am not fooled. I understand what I am saying.
A fooled person doesn't know they are fooled, that is why they are called fooled. :smack
Truthseeker
09-04-2013, 11:16 AM
I am pretty sure Christ was pissed at the temple and there is a strong chance that He would have used words that in the day He lived weren't too... shall we say, righteous.
That is projecting what you want into that scenario. Maybe your self created image of the savior is a cussing one but the true one had no guile or wickedness in him.
Jack Shephard
09-04-2013, 11:20 AM
Well you just proved you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
1)The Kingdom of God is about reconciling men to Christ, in submission to Christ, for God's will to be done in the earth as it is in heaven. The angels rejoice over one sinner who comes to repentance, not over masses of people who just came in the doors.
2)If you believe that I think God should only speak to saved people, again, you show yourself completely uninformed. I speak to unsaved people all the time. I do ministry in a place most likely to find the "most" unsaved of all people. I'm not going to talk about what I do, because its doesn't need to be discussed publically and secondly, it doesn't matter. I can't do anything without Christ.
3)Whatever you draw people with, and win them with, is what you keep them with. If you draw people through carnality, through gimmicks, through celebrities, through contest, through secular music, through provoking sermon series that push the envelope, through surveys about what they want to hear preached, through prosperity, through feeling good about themselves and positive self image, then that's how you keep them. Really you haven't helped people, you've crippled their potential for spiritual growth and given them a crutch to prop themselves up.
Salvation is more than important, if we bypass salvation and try to get people to feel good about themselves in their current state without Jesus, then all we've done in solidify them in their unbelief, and make them feel sufficient and satisfied without Christ. So in theory we say we're bringing them to the Savior, but in practice we are compounding their lostness.
If someone doesn't receive Bible salvation, their not even on the road. I've never said salvation was it, that's another misunderstanding on your part, and again, I've got 4,000 posts on AFF you can look through before you make accusations and misrepresentations of my position. I think this is a common strawman thrown out that "conservatives" don't care about reaching the lost, or ministering to hurting people where they are at, it is totally false and deceitful. And I for one get sick of having it thrown at me simply because I'm biblically conservative. I'm not saying you made the charge, but your post seems to indicate this familiar strawman.
Life DOES have to be lived. How is that life lived without Christ. Salvation must come FIRST not LAST. We don't draw people out on a long road where we try to minister to all their life problems, then at the end say "now that your family life is in order, now that you feel good about yourself, now that you are prospering, THIS is what it really means to be a disciple of Christ" and then teach them the gospel. NO. We start with "Except a man take up deny Himself and come after me, He cannot be my disciple." "Except a man hate his father, mother, brothers, sisters, wives, children he cannot be my disciple" "If you seek to save your life you will lose is, but if you seek to lose your life you will save it", "verily you are only here for the fishes and the loaves, but whosever will not eat my flesh and drink my blood hath no life in them" See that how Jesus did evangelism, perhaps the liberal commentator William Barclay said it best in his commentary on Mark 8:34-35
(I paraphrase from memory)
"It can never be said of Jesus that he got men to follow Him under false pretenses. He always told them to count the cost, and that it could cost them their life."
What a great statement. Jesus himself NEVER tried to get people to follow Him through false pretenses or empty promises. Look how he reacted to the crowds, by teaching them about commitment (and they all left him every time), or in Mark 1 when the crowd comes seeking Jesus after all the healings at Peter's moms house , and Jesus says "lets go to another place", and how would these Mega pastors respond to the rich young ruler? Surely he would find a prominent place of acceptance in their churches, not only was he rich but also moral. But not Jesus.
We can't use the seeker sensitive movement as our guide for evangelism, Jesus set the example. Reach out to everyone, regardless of if they are poor, afflicted, abused, addicted, dishonest, immoral, religious, etc. But always teach them what true conversion is. Always make sure they count the cost. Always make sure they understand what is involved in following Jesus. He's not interested in numbers and masses, he's interested in reconciliation of God and man.
First, the Kindgom of God is a thing we are to bring here to earth. That is our job. Jesus came to seek those that were lost. That is not why we came.
Second, I am not saying you don't talk to unsaved people. All I am saying is that if we refuse to do life that includes people we do not agree with there is no variety and life, spirituality becomes insanely stagnant.
Third, I don't think you keep people with the same things you draw them with. Not all people. If you draw people to church because you give away Starbucks giftcards I doubt the only reason people come back is for the cards. I don't drink coffee so it wouldn't mean "beans" to me. :heeheehee However, if there is a place that cultivates love, faith, family and fellowship I will go to that place. We need more fellowship, less organizations.
Strawman; Nah... I didn't make that arguement. Thank you for not assuming I had and only saying it seemed as if I might have meant that.
A person doesn't start with salvation. They start at the faith in believing that God is real and He created it all. That is the starting place. You cannot honestly think that someone can only start at salvation if they haven't had any prior knowledge of Christ. I have a...an acquaintance that was not raised around anything to do with God that was presented in a positive way. However, after being friends with me and with working around me he told me that he believes in God and knows that He is a real being, while previously he held to the belief that God didn't exist. It took me well over a year of discussioning God for him to get to that point. Having said that for Joe his journey didn't start at salvation and if I understand your position here the year or so I took talking with him was worthless and his current position is of no real importance. I am sorry to tell you but it is important.
We can acutally use a seeker sensitive model because it has been shown to work. However, there must be substance in there too or else it won't work. For too long humanity has been leaving churches in large number because of the bait-and-switch that happens. It happens at every pentescostal church I have attended. They preach about God's love and mercy and people get saved, but after that they are quickly taught that God's love and grace is conditional. But it isn't.
Jack Shephard
09-04-2013, 11:22 AM
You're blind. The whole context of the first half of James 3 covers modern cursing as well. That's why it talks about offending in word, of the tongue being full of deadly poison, and of sweet and bitter water not being able to come from the same spring.
Oh good grief.
The whole context of a book from thousands of years ago is still in context today...hmmmmmm okay. So I guess all historical books from way back when are still in context today. Nice theology you have there!
Jack Shephard
09-04-2013, 11:25 AM
A fooled person doesn't know they are fooled, that is why they are called fooled. :smack
Well no kidding Captain Obvious... I am glad you have your cape unhidden now so we all know you are here to save us and set us straight. You are a super man.
Jack Shephard
09-04-2013, 11:26 AM
That is projecting what you want into that scenario. Maybe your self created image of the savior is a cussing one but the true one had no guile or wickedness in him.
True, Christ didn't, but you are really making it a stretch and assumption that saying **** ****, and others to be vile and wicked. But they ain't (Country Grammar)
n david
09-04-2013, 11:31 AM
The whole context of a book from thousands of years ago is still in context today...hmmmmmm okay. So I guess all historical books from way back when are still in context today. Nice theology you have there!
And now the Bible is just a "book from thousands of years ago;" just a historical book which isn't applicable today?
Picture is becoming clearer...
houston
09-04-2013, 11:32 AM
Y'all givin me a headche. Adios.
n david
09-04-2013, 11:33 AM
True, Christ didn't, but you are really making it a stretch and assumption that saying ****, ****, and others to be vile and wicked. But they ain't (Country Grammar)
You may feel it's okay to curse, but please refrain from posting the words on the forum. Thank you.
so the thread has turned into an "is it ok to cuss thread"
really? isnt this a christian message board?
n david
09-04-2013, 12:06 PM
so the thread has turned into an "is it ok to cuss thread"
really? isnt this a christian message board?
Ferd, dontcha know...Christian's can cuss! It's 2013, catch up to the times, man.
Ferd, dontcha know...Christian's can cuss! It's 2013, catch up to the times, man.
well.... i spent time in the navy with some fellers who believed they were saved because they "believed in god"
Please note, I spent time with them I knew I wasnt saved and I certainly knew they werent...
Just because a cow calls itself a duck does not mean it is a pig.
Jack Shephard
09-04-2013, 01:03 PM
You may feel it's okay to curse, but please refrain from posting the words on the forum. Thank you.
If you are an admin and wish for me to stop then PM me... we can discuss the issue rationally and move on. If you aren't then ask admin to address me via a PM to them (seems you have) otherwise you can choose to ignore them. Thank you!
Jack Shephard
09-04-2013, 01:05 PM
so the thread has turned into an "is it ok to cuss thread"
really? isnt this a christian message board?
Yup - it is a Christian message board.
Jack Shephard
09-04-2013, 01:08 PM
well.... i spent time in the navy with some fellers who believed they were saved because they "believed in god"
Please note, I spent time with them I knew I wasnt saved and I certainly knew they werent...
Just because a cow calls itself a duck does not mean it is a pig.
Thank you for your service in the Navy! Thank you for your comment about a cow calling itself a duck too. I was so confused prior to your clarification. :happydance
When you knew you weren't saved that is good, but you aren't God so what you feel is "saved" may not be what God feels is "saved." Why must religious people insist on judging people and not letting God do that?
navygoat1998
09-04-2013, 01:08 PM
well.... i spent time in the navy with some fellers who believed they were saved because they "believed in god"
Please note, I spent time with them I knew I wasnt saved and I certainly knew they werent...
Just because a cow calls itself a duck does not mean it is a pig.
Poor Squids!!!! :happydance
n david
09-04-2013, 01:18 PM
If you are an admin and wish for me to stop then PM me... we can discuss the issue rationally and move on. If you aren't then ask admin to address me via a PM to them (seems you have) otherwise you can choose to ignore them. Thank you!
I did use the report button because it's unacceptable to have curse words typed out in posts. It's also against the forum rules: "Content that is unseemly, using bad language, or any form of insinuating bad language (i.e. one letter and ****), or offensive slang, is not permitted."
I don't need to ignore them, you just need to stop posting them. :nod
Jack Shephard
09-04-2013, 01:20 PM
I did use the report button because it's unacceptable to have curse words typed out in posts. It's also against the forum rules: "Content that is unseemly, using bad language, or any form of insinuating bad language (i.e. one letter and ****), or offensive slang, is not permitted."
I don't need to ignore them, you just need to stop posting them. :nod
Yes, unacceptable is the word that comes to mind...
Yup - it is a Christian message board.
then act like it.
Jack Shephard
09-04-2013, 02:20 PM
then act like it.
No acting needed. I am living it homie.
No acting needed. I am living it homie.
not if you are saying the things that you are typing here.
Jack Shephard
09-04-2013, 03:12 PM
not if you are saying the things that you are typing here.
Yup... and I still get to say the things I typed here. I am more Apostolic than you! (Quoting DA here)
Yup... and I still get to say the things I typed here. I am more Apostolic than you! (Quoting DA here)
Jack, have you ever suggested or stated that a tube top shirt is appropriate attire for praise singers?
Jack Shephard
09-04-2013, 07:09 PM
Jack, have you ever suggested or stated that a tube top shirt is appropriate attire for praise singers?
Not sure... hallelujah anyhow...
Colossians 3:8 ESV
But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth.
Ephesians 4:29 ESV
Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.
Matthew 15:10-11 ESV
And he called the people to him and said to them, “Hear and understand: it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person.”
James 3:10 ESV
From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers, these things ought not to be so.
Matthew 12:36-37 ESV
I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak, for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”
Ephesians 5:4 ESV
Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving.
James 3:6-8 ESV
And the tongue is a fire, a world of unrighteousness. The tongue is set among our members, staining the whole body, setting on fire the entire course of life, and set on fire by hell. For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and sea creature, can be tamed and has been tamed by mankind, but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison.
2 Timothy 2:16 ESV
But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness,
Proverbs 21:23 ESV
Whoever keeps his mouth and his tongue keeps himself out of trouble.
Psalm 19:14 ESV
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in your sight, O Lord, my rock and my redeemer.
Matthew 5:37 ESV
Let what you say be simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything more than this comes from evil.
Romans 12:2 ESV
Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.
Luke 6:45 ESV
The good person out of the good treasure of his heart produces good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure produces evil, for out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.
James 3:11-13 ESV
Does a spring pour forth from the same opening both fresh and salt water? Can a fig tree, my brothers, bear olives, or a grapevine produce figs? Neither can a salt pond yield fresh water. Who is wise and understanding among you? By his good conduct let him show his works in the meekness of wisdom.
Proverbs 4:24 ESV
Put away from you crooked speech, and put devious talk far from you.
Psalm 141:3 ESV
Set a guard, O Lord, over my mouth; keep watch over the door of my lips!
James 1:26 ESV
If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless.
Colossians 4:6 ESV
Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person.
Proverbs 6:12 ESV
A worthless person, a wicked man, goes about with crooked speech,
1 Timothy 4:12 ESV
Let no one despise you for your youth, but set the believers an example in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity.
Proverbs 10:31-32 ESV
The mouth of the righteous brings forth wisdom, but the perverse tongue will be cut off. The lips of the righteous know what is acceptable, but the mouth of the wicked, what is perverse.
Psalm 34:13-14 ESV
Keep your tongue from evil and your lips from speaking deceit. Turn away from evil and do good; seek peace and pursue it.
1 Corinthians 10:13 ESV
No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.
Romans 12:21 ESV
Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
Proverbs 8:13 ESV
The fear of the Lord is hatred of evil. Pride and arrogance and the way of evil and perverted speech I hate.
Psalm 10:7 ESV
His mouth is filled with cursing and deceit and oppression; under his tongue are mischief and iniquity.
James 4:7 ESV
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Ecclesiastes 5:6 ESV
Let not your mouth lead you into sin, and do not say before the messenger that it was a mistake. Why should God be angry at your voice and destroy the work of your hands?
Titus 2:6-8 ESV
Likewise, urge the younger men to be self-controlled. Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, dignity, and sound speech that cannot be condemned, so that an opponent may be put to shame, having nothing evil to say about us.
Philippians 4:8 ESV
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.
Exodus 20:7 ESV
“You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.
Matthew 5:22 ESV
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.
Proverbs 31:26 ESV
She opens her mouth with wisdom, and the teaching of kindness is on her tongue.
Jack, read thru all these, and tell me how in the world u ever plan on moving on into Perfection(heb. 6), walking in the Spirit(Gal. 5), if your hung up on the obvious, elementary things of Christ, like not cursing.
Jack Shephard
09-04-2013, 08:47 PM
Colossians 3:8 ESV
But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth.
Ephesians 4:29 ESV
Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.
Matthew 15:10-11 ESV
And he called the people to him and said to them, “Hear and understand: it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person.”
James 3:10 ESV
From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers, these things ought not to be so.
Matthew 12:36-37 ESV
I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak, for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”
Ephesians 5:4 ESV
Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving.
James 3:6-8 ESV
And the tongue is a fire, a world of unrighteousness. The tongue is set among our members, staining the whole body, setting on fire the entire course of life, and set on fire by hell. For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and sea creature, can be tamed and has been tamed by mankind, but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison.
2 Timothy 2:16 ESV
But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness,
Proverbs 21:23 ESV
Whoever keeps his mouth and his tongue keeps himself out of trouble.
Psalm 19:14 ESV
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in your sight, O Lord, my rock and my redeemer.
Matthew 5:37 ESV
Let what you say be simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything more than this comes from evil.
Romans 12:2 ESV
Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.
Luke 6:45 ESV
The good person out of the good treasure of his heart produces good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure produces evil, for out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.
James 3:11-13 ESV
Does a spring pour forth from the same opening both fresh and salt water? Can a fig tree, my brothers, bear olives, or a grapevine produce figs? Neither can a salt pond yield fresh water. Who is wise and understanding among you? By his good conduct let him show his works in the meekness of wisdom.
Proverbs 4:24 ESV
Put away from you crooked speech, and put devious talk far from you.
Psalm 141:3 ESV
Set a guard, O Lord, over my mouth; keep watch over the door of my lips!
James 1:26 ESV
If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless.
Colossians 4:6 ESV
Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person.
Proverbs 6:12 ESV
A worthless person, a wicked man, goes about with crooked speech,
1 Timothy 4:12 ESV
Let no one despise you for your youth, but set the believers an example in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity.
Proverbs 10:31-32 ESV
The mouth of the righteous brings forth wisdom, but the perverse tongue will be cut off. The lips of the righteous know what is acceptable, but the mouth of the wicked, what is perverse.
Psalm 34:13-14 ESV
Keep your tongue from evil and your lips from speaking deceit. Turn away from evil and do good; seek peace and pursue it.
1 Corinthians 10:13 ESV
No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.
Romans 12:21 ESV
Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
Proverbs 8:13 ESV
The fear of the Lord is hatred of evil. Pride and arrogance and the way of evil and perverted speech I hate.
Psalm 10:7 ESV
His mouth is filled with cursing and deceit and oppression; under his tongue are mischief and iniquity.
James 4:7 ESV
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Ecclesiastes 5:6 ESV
Let not your mouth lead you into sin, and do not say before the messenger that it was a mistake. Why should God be angry at your voice and destroy the work of your hands?
Titus 2:6-8 ESV
Likewise, urge the younger men to be self-controlled. Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, dignity, and sound speech that cannot be condemned, so that an opponent may be put to shame, having nothing evil to say about us.
Philippians 4:8 ESV
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.
Exodus 20:7 ESV
“You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.
Matthew 5:22 ESV
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.
Proverbs 31:26 ESV
She opens her mouth with wisdom, and the teaching of kindness is on her tongue.
Jack, read thru all these, and tell me how in the world u ever plan on moving on into
Perfection(heb. 6), if your hung up on the obvious, elementary things of Christ, like not cursing.
'You're" right.
I am not worried that a swear word will keep me from heaven... not worried even a little.
Amanah
09-05-2013, 05:06 AM
a humble attitude of repentance and godly sorrow, a daily altar and a desire to walk closely with the Lord and to be led by His Spirit so that we don't fulfill the lust of the flesh and of the eye, and the pride of life, and so that we can be a vessel of honor for the master's use . . .
to not be conformed by this world, but to be transformed, to be conformed to His word so to be a vessel that He can use to bring healing to the nations
where are we and where are we going? How long before God's judgement falls.
if God judged His beloved for her sins, are our sins any less?
oh that my head were waters and eye a fountain of tears that I might weep day and night for the destruction of my people.
renee819
09-05-2013, 07:27 AM
Jason, I really like the sermons that you have put on this thread. You are telling it like it is.
Jason wrote,
The people at MegaFest that you describe who "needed to hear" Oprah, actually need to hear the full gospel preached. Sin condemned by name. Repentance defined and explained the importance of walking with God by faith. That salvation is by grace (a lot of these people have ael mentality that easily fails into believing they need to learn approval, whether it be from a man or from God, and Creflo's teaching on tithing and prosperity just feeds that mentality). They need to be taught about the biblical responsibilities and roles of mother's, fathers, children, older women, older men, young women, young men, etc.
What they need is the life giving anointed Word of God, not celebrities posing as phycologists who can fix their problems with good advice
The impression they will get is, make Mega-bucks, help the poor, (Humanist's do the same) and it don't matter what sins you commit. You can be 'gay, commit adultery, about anything and if you put on a good face, thru positive thinking, YOU WILL BE ACCEPTED.
Accepted by whom? The world.
Oh, by the way, accept Jesus as your Saviour, and you will make it to heaven. But do they teach that Jesus might not accept them, as long as they hang onto their sins?
Isaiah 59:1 Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
renee819
09-05-2013, 07:33 AM
a humble attitude of repentance and godly sorrow, a daily altar and a desire to walk closely with the Lord and to be led by His Spirit so that we don't fulfill the lust of the flesh and of the eye, and the pride of life, and so that we can be a vessel of honor for the master's use . . .
to not be conformed by this world, but to be transformed, to be conformed to His word so to be a vessel that He can use to bring healing to the nations
where are we and where are we going? How long before God's judgement falls.
if God judged His beloved for her sins, are our sins any less?
oh that my head were waters and eye a fountain of tears that I might weep day and night for the destruction of my people.
Amanah, I feel the same. In fact, this Forum is good for me. It makes me pray and YES weep, for the condition of the Church. The condition of OUR PEOPLE, that are or supposed to be born again, and trying to live just as close to the world as they possibly can, and still feel like they are not backslid.
Many are sitting on the fence, and a slight breeze will blow them over.
kclee4jc
09-05-2013, 08:02 AM
I appreciate your opinions here, but you are like a nerd that knows very little about video games, but can at least turn their Playstation on. You are talking about swear words as if it is placing a curse on someone which is ridiculous.
I actually tell some of my friends "F - you" and flip them the bird and it has become a literal term of endearment between us. But to you it woudn't be valid because it is between myself and my gay friends. So that is a double whammy on way I will spilt hell wide over. I use these words frequently. I had a conversation recently where I used these words and talked about Jesus too and guess what... people were moved to tears laughing as well as they had a legit God moment then too. So you keep your mindset the way that it is and I will keep mine the way that it is too. :heeheehee
a lewd reference to fornication between yourself and your "gay friends" would be considered unholy and profane speech.
kclee4jc
09-05-2013, 08:03 AM
Nah... pretty sure I am not fooled. I understand what I am saying.
probably not fooled...but willfully ignorant
kclee4jc
09-05-2013, 08:33 AM
Ichabod
very sad
houston
09-05-2013, 09:33 AM
Ichabod
A woman named her son Ichabod. What does that have to do with anything?
A woman named her son Ichabod. What does that have to do with anything?
The name means the glory hath departed...fitting I think...
houston
09-05-2013, 10:53 AM
The name means the glory hath departed...fitting I think...
The WOMAN named the child.
GOD did not "pronounce" ICHABOD.
The WOMAN named the child.
GOD did not "pronounce" ICHABOD.
LOL. who said God pronounced anything?
I didnt even say I did. I just offered an observation. and a sound one at that.
The WOMAN named the child.
GOD did not "pronounce" ICHABOD.
And names meant something back in the day...she, too, called it like she saw it.
LOL. who said God pronounced anything?
I didnt even say I did. I just offered an observation. and a sound one at that.
:thumbsup
Jack Shephard
09-05-2013, 12:50 PM
a lewd reference to fornication between yourself and your "gay friends" would be considered unholy and profane speech.
Thank you for the input. You are a breath of fresh air....
:yourock
TIC
Jack Shephard
09-05-2013, 12:52 PM
probably not fooled...but willfully ignorant
I am willingly searching for truth. Truth is not a place though... it is a constant search.
Nitehawk013
09-05-2013, 01:05 PM
Blah. You aren't searching for truth. You are searching for a feel good, everybody is just great as they are, numb conscience, message that makes everyone feel warm and fuzzy no matter what perverse life they live.
Congrats. There are plenty of preachers of that sort of fake truth out there so you should find one to appease your hunger pretty easily.
Jack Shephard
09-05-2013, 01:51 PM
Blah. You aren't searching for truth. You are searching for a feel good, everybody is just great as they are, numb conscience, message that makes everyone feel warm and fuzzy no matter what perverse life they live.
Congrats. There are plenty of preachers of that sort of fake truth out there so you should find one to appease your hunger pretty easily.
Thank you, LateFlyer. But you aren't correct. You do not know me. I am very much searching for truth, His truth. But I am glad you are now an expert on me. Maybe you can write a novel about me because I am pretty darn awesome!
houston
09-05-2013, 02:00 PM
And names meant something back in the day...she, too, called it like she saw it.
The ark was stolen. That is not the same as God turning people over to a reprobate mind.
JS is searching for truth. I am afraid that he is searching in all the wrong places.
The ark was stolen. That is not the same as God turning people over to a reprobate mind.
JS is searching for truth. I am afraid that he is searching in all the wrong places.
Yes, I know the story...
Her husband and brother in law were scoundrels and dead. Her do-nothing father in law was dead. And the presence of the Lord was stolen from the camp.
I know the story.
I also have been around long enough to believe that 'Ichabod' can be pronounced over the life of an individual.
There was a time it could have been said of me, for surely the glory of the Lord had departed.
That doesn't make one reprobate.
It just means what it says.
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