Messages in tongues down among Pentecostals

[Rose]

AP NEWS: Messages in tongues down among Pentecostals

http://www.capitalgazette.com/wire/nation/messages-in-tongues-down-among-pentecostals/article_fdbfb1f2-8321-5a19-85c4-63d2c1eec772.html

[houston]

Ah, more Pentecostals are doing things orderly. I am pleased that they are following the Apotle Paul's instruction.

[Timmy]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-a_au5jXIopg/Tid0ZIVT7GI/AAAAAAAAAx8/VzlWNP1l7O8/s400/Declining-chart-300x156.jpg

[Praxeas]

Ah, more Pentecostals are doing things orderly. I am pleased that they are following the Apotle Paul's instruction.
That isn't the case. They are actively eliminating speaking in tongues. Paul did not teach that. He said to speak in tongues and he said to do it, the other gifts and all other things "in order"

1Co 14:39 So then, brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid anyone from speaking in tongues.
1Co 14:40 And do everything in a decent and orderly manner.

[MarcBee]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-a_au5jXIopg/Tid0ZIVT7GI/AAAAAAAAAx8/VzlWNP1l7O8/s400/Declining-chart-300x156.jpg

A tongue depression?

From the article,
<<It's a shift that has unsettled some more traditional Pentecostals who say the practice is at the heart of a movement that evolved out of an interracial revival and remains a spontaneous way for the poor and dispossessed to have a direct line to God. >>

So, to maintain the "direct line to god", best to stay poor or dispossessed. M'kay.
:icecream

[Timmy]

A tongue depression?


:spit

[Praxeas]

http://unimaxsupply.com/md/md1386z400x400.jpg

[Oneness&Unity]

1 Corinthians 12:8-10

8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues.



From this passage it is obvious that not all Christians will speak in tongues.

[renee819]

LORD, Have mercy on us, and forgive us of our PRIDE and WORLDLINESS. I'M NOT ASKING THAT YOU SAVE US, IN OUR PRIDE AND WORLDLINESS, but that you open our eyes, and show us our sins. And put a hunger in the hearts of the Ministers, as well as the back sliding Christians, that will supersede anything that the world has to offer. AMEN

The 40-member church is among many nationwide that are reducing or cutting out speaking in tongues as they become more popular and move to the mainstream. It's a shift that has unsettled some more traditional Pentecostals who say the practice is at the heart of a movement that evolved out of an interracial revival and remains a spontaneous way for the poor and dispossessed to have a direct line to God.

Then I suppose, if you have a little money, you don't need “ a direct line to God?” Do they think their money will save them?

As the religion becomes more widely accepted, Walters said, there has been a tendency for large Pentecostal churches to downplay the differences between Pentecostalism and other well-known Christian denominations.
“as they become more popular and move to the mainstream”

Do you remember the OT story?
God told the Israelites to keep Judges for their leaders. They looked around and said, “all the other nations have Kings. We want a King. God tried to tell them what would happen if they had a King. They would not listen, they said, “Give us a King so that we can be like other nations,”

That is the way that Pentecost is going. We, (larger churches) want to be accepted by the world, at least by other Denominations, so they have decided and will quit talking in tongues.

If they don't know the difference, in Other Tongues and Unknown Tongues, to refuse Other Tongues, destroys all hope of being born again. They are destroying the foundation of their salvation. And YES, they will become like other Denominations, dead, dried and plucked up by the roots. (Some Pentecostals are already like that) placing programs in the place of the Spirit, the music is a disaster. (Christian Rock, or Modern Music accepted, to be more like the world) In many Pentecostal churches, using music to rev up the emotions.
Amos 8:3 And the songs of the temple shall be howlings in that day, saith the Lord GOD: there shall be many dead bodies in every place; they shall cast them forth with silence.

[Michael The Disciple]

No wonder that they are forsaking tongues. Tares now make up most of the ministry as well as the assemblies. Tongues are now ridiculed among Pentecostals. There are people on this forum that attack it as well as other foundation issues. No wonder many are leaving the faith.

[Rose]

"I’m still standing
I’m still trusting
I’m still holding on to what I believe"

[renee819]

GOD, instituted the speaking in Other Tongues as the evidence of the Holy Ghost. If you are ashamed of Tongues, then you are ashamed of God.

And IN THAT DAY---He will be ashamed of you. Whoever you are that is ashamed of tongues.

[houston]

Are you drunk again?

[Jason B]

GOD, instituted the speaking in Other Tongues as the evidence of the Holy Ghost. If you are ashamed of Tongues, then you are ashamed of God.

And IN THAT DAY---He will be ashamed of you. Whoever you are that is ashamed of tongues.

Renee you seem like a sincere person and I certainly like what you bring to this forum, but I think you make a huge leap to say if one is ashamed of tongues Jesus will be ashamed of them. Big difference between believing in Jesus and believing in tongues.

[houston]

GOD, instituted the speaking in Other Tongues as the evidence of the Holy Ghost. If you are ashamed of Tongues, then you are ashamed of God.

And IN THAT DAY---He will be ashamed of you. Whoever you are that is ashamed of tongues.

I am sorry to ask if you are drunk. My blood sugar was low. Your statement is... I, I don't know how you extrapolated that. Ok, well, I do know.

In your mind you equate a gift of the Spirit as the Spirit, as.... Okay, this is harder to explain than I thought. See below.

glossolalia--> holy ghost= Jesus

I think that is what you think.

Jesus said "If you deny ME before men..." That is probably what prompted your post. Am I right?

[renee819]

Originally Posted by renee819
GOD, instituted the speaking in Other Tongues as the evidence of the Holy Ghost. If you are ashamed of Tongues, then you are ashamed of God.

And IN THAT DAY---He will be ashamed of you. Whoever you are that is ashamed of tongues.

Renee you seem like a sincere person and I certainly like what you bring to this forum, but I think you make a huge leap to say if one is ashamed of tongues Jesus will be ashamed of them. Big difference between believing in Jesus and believing in tongues.


No Jason, if a person believes in Jesus, they are a believer. Still not born again.
Like our example in Acts 19. They were believers, but Paul didn't leave them, until they were baptized right--in Jesus name, and received the Holy Ghost.

The Samaritans were believers, until Peter and John prayed for them, and then they received the Holy Ghost. If the Bible is not our example, then what are we to believe??? MAN??? That wants an easy way? Man? That tries to find another way to climb up???

It would be the same as an Israelite saying, “God said that one of the signs of an Israelite is to be circumcised, but I'm not going to circumcise my sons, I don't see how that is important.”

God says to cast that person out from among them. God is exact.

First, it's a matter of obedience.
Next, a person is not 'born again' until they receive the Holy Ghost. And we have several examples of people being born again, receiving the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in Other Tongues.

With two or three witness's let every word be established.

Do you find ANYWHERE, where people are receiving the Holy Ghost, and it says, they didn't speak in tongues? Or that it was not important to speak in tongues?

It's not worth the risk of trying to climb up some other way. And to teach that it's not important, may be causing some one else to be lost.

[renee819]

Originally Posted by renee819
GOD, instituted the speaking in Other Tongues as the evidence of the Holy Ghost. If you are ashamed of Tongues, then you are ashamed of God.

And IN THAT DAY---He will be ashamed of you. Whoever you are that is ashamed of tongues.

Houston wrote,
I am sorry to ask if you are drunk. My blood sugar was low. Your statement is... I, I don't know how you extrapolated that. Ok, well, I do know.

In your mind you equate a gift of the Spirit as the Spirit, as.... Okay, this is harder to explain than I thought. See below.

glossolalia--> holy ghost= Jesus

I think that is what you think.

Jesus said "If you deny ME before men..." That is probably what prompted your post. Am I right?

I equate receiving the Holy Ghost as receiving the Spirit of God—Jesus.

If you deny what Jesus has told us in His Word, aren't you denying Jesus?

It is the WORLD, those that will not repent, that can not, will not receive the Holy Ghost. In other words, a believer should.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

“ If ye love me, keep my commandments”

Jesus gave Peter the Keys to the Kingdom, and taught the Apostles, how to set up the Church. Not only taught them but gave them COMMANDMENTS, and told us in John 14-15-16, and John 7:37-39, that after He was glorified, that He would send the Holy Ghost down. And the results, the culmination, the mystery hidden from former generations, the peak of the Old Testament as well as the New took place in Acts 2, and explained in Acts 2:38.

Notice the COMMANDMENTS, not suggestions.

Acts 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Did they speak in tongues, when the Holy Ghost came?
Did the Samaritans speak in tongues when the Holy Ghost came?
Did Paul. We know he did,
Did the Ephesians speak in tongues when the Holy Ghost came?
Does history tell us that they continued strong for about 200 yrs. In the early Church?

Did Paul tell us, that anyone that taught another Gospel, was cursed?

[Timmy]

...

If the Bible is not our example, then what are we to believe??? MAN???

...

To believe the Bible is to believe man. You are believing the men who wrote it, and the men who chose the canon.

[n david]

No Jason, if a person believes in Jesus, they are a believer. Still not born again.
Like our example in Acts 19. They were believers, but Paul didn't leave them, until they were baptized right--in Jesus name, and received the Holy Ghost.

The Samaritans were believers, until Peter and John prayed for them, and then they received the Holy Ghost. If the Bible is not our example, then what are we to believe??? MAN??? That wants an easy way? Man? That tries to find another way to climb up???

It would be the same as an Israelite saying, “God said that one of the signs of an Israelite is to be circumcised, but I'm not going to circumcise my sons, I don't see how that is important.”

God says to cast that person out from among them. God is exact.

First, it's a matter of obedience.
Next, a person is not 'born again' until they receive the Holy Ghost. And we have several examples of people being born again, receiving the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in Other Tongues.

With two or three witness's let every word be established.

Do you find ANYWHERE, where people are receiving the Holy Ghost, and it says, they didn't speak in tongues? Or that it was not important to speak in tongues?

It's not worth the risk of trying to climb up some other way. And to teach that it's not important, may be causing some one else to be lost.
:thumbsup

[obriencp]

it's not tongues that are being attacked, but how we use tongues as a spiritual dip-stick regarding one's salvational status and spirituallity. Many of us that seem to be on the other side of the aisle still speak in tongues.

[MawMaw]

LORD, Have mercy on us, and forgive us of our PRIDE and WORLDLINESS. I'M NOT ASKING THAT YOU SAVE US, IN OUR PRIDE AND WORLDLINESS, but that you open our eyes, and show us our sins. And put a hunger in the hearts of the Ministers, as well as the back sliding Christians, that will supersede anything that the world has to offer. AMEN



Then I suppose, if you have a little money, you don't need “ a direct line to God?” Do they think their money will save them?

.


Do you remember the OT story?
God told the Israelites to keep Judges for their leaders. They looked around and said, “all the other nations have Kings. We want a King. God tried to tell them what would happen if they had a King. They would not listen, they said, “Give us a King so that we can be like other nations,”

That is the way that Pentecost is going. We, (larger churches) want to be accepted by the world, at least by other Denominations, so they have decided and will quit talking in tongues.

If they don't know the difference, in Other Tongues and Unknown Tongues, to refuse Other Tongues, destroys all hope of being born again. They are destroying the foundation of their salvation. And YES, they will become like other Denominations, dead, dried and plucked up by the roots. (Some Pentecostals are already like that) placing programs in the place of the Spirit, the music is a disaster. (Christian Rock, or Modern Music accepted, to be more like the world) In many Pentecostal churches, using music to rev up the emotions.
Amos 8:3 And the songs of the temple shall be howlings in that day, saith the Lord GOD: there shall be many dead bodies in every place; they shall cast them forth with silence.

GOD, instituted the speaking in Other Tongues as the evidence of the Holy Ghost. If you are ashamed of Tongues, then you are ashamed of God.

And IN THAT DAY---He will be ashamed of you. Whoever you are that is ashamed of tongues.

Preach Sistah Preach! :nod

[TGBTG]

GOD, instituted the speaking in Other Tongues as the evidence of the Holy Ghost. If you are ashamed of Tongues, then you are ashamed of God.

And IN THAT DAY---He will be ashamed of you. Whoever you are that is ashamed of tongues.

I am sorry to ask if you are drunk. My blood sugar was low. Your statement is... I, I don't know how you extrapolated that. Ok, well, I do know.

In your mind you equate a gift of the Spirit as the Spirit, as.... Okay, this is harder to explain than I thought. See below.

glossolalia--> holy ghost= Jesus

I think that is what you think.

Jesus said "If you deny ME before men..." That is probably what prompted your post. Am I right?

I'll be honest, I was laughing so hard when I read the emboldened...

[houston]

I'll be honest, I was laughing so hard when I read the emboldened...As was I.

[shazeep]

i would actually agree with Renee, for the period that the passage was written; although i do not believe that it holds true now. this comes from the widely held perception that we have the same Church now that we did when the Apostles walked the earth, which is demonstrably false.

[Abiding Now]

Originally Posted by renee819
.

.

No Jason, if a person believes in Jesus, they are a believer. Still not born again.
Like our example in Acts 19. They were believers, but Paul didn't leave them, until they were baptized right--in Jesus name, and received the Holy Ghost.

The Samaritans were believers, until Peter and John prayed for them, and then they received the Holy Ghost. If the Bible is not our example, then what are we to believe??? MAN??? That wants an easy way? Man? That tries to find another way to climb up???

It would be the same as an Israelite saying, “God said that one of the signs of an Israelite is to be circumcised, but I'm not going to circumcise my sons, I don't see how that is important.”

God says to cast that person out from among them. God is exact.

First, it's a matter of obedience.
Next, a person is not 'born again' until they receive the Holy Ghost. And we have several examples of people being born again, receiving the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in Other Tongues.

With two or three witness's let every word be established.

Do you find ANYWHERE, where people are receiving the Holy Ghost, and it says, they didn't speak in tongues? Or that it was not important to speak in tongues?

It's not worth the risk of trying to climb up some other way. And to teach that it's not important, may be causing some one else to be lost.

Amen.

[Abiding Now]

Well obviously they don't attend the same Pentecostal churches that I attend.

[Jason B]

It's not worth the risk of trying to climb up some other way. And to teach that it's not important, may be causing some one else to be lost.

Wait. Seriously? You are interpreting Jesus' statement on salvation exclusively through Him to the initial evidence doctrine? I'm pretty sure the meaning of the text is to show that all those who refuse to believe in JESUS CHRIST can not be saved. NOT that whoever denies the initial evidence doctrine can't be saved. Wow. That is quite a leap.

[houston]

Wait. Seriously? You are interpreting Jesus' statement on salvation exclusively through Him to the initial evidence doctrine? I'm pretty sure the meaning of the text is to show that all those who refuse to believe in JESUS CHRIST can not be saved. NOT that whoever denies the initial evidence doctrine can't be saved. Wow. That is quite a leap. Yep

[Norman]

Real "speaking in other tongues" is not glossolalia - it is xenoglossia.
I am concerned about fake speaking in tongues, and also that many people might not actually realize that what they are doing is not speaking in tongues. Not to be mocking anybody, but as an example, la la la la la la la is not speaking in tongues.

[shazeep]

yes, i am convinced that both occur now, and even entertain that genuine tongues may be needed for a filling of the Holy Spirit, as a gift, that many may not experience; but i don't believe that excludes one being indwelt by the Holy Spirit as long as 1John1:9 is practiced. it also appears that there will be a resurgence of genuine tongues 'in that day,' and also counterfeits for that, after an initial genuine example that is impactful, hard to dismiss, but then the counterfeits flood while the people are still deciding--which does not preclude more genuine experiences, but they will exist side by side with the counterfeits. Um, you define 'in that day.' :D

[Timmy]

Real "speaking in other tongues" is not glossolalia - it is xenoglossia.
I am concerned about fake speaking in tongues, and also that many people might not actually realize that what they are doing is not speaking in tongues. Not to be mocking anybody, but as an example, la la la la la la la is not speaking in tongues.

I think the NT talks about both. 1 Cor 14, e.g., seems to be talking about "heavenly" languages (speaking not to men but to God) and Acts 2 has earthly languages that were not learned by the speakers in the normal way.

Just saying.

[Abiding Now]

This morning during prayer time and then again during worship, I spoke in tongues. :hanky

[houston]

we don't care

[shazeep]

Well, yikes?
I think the NT talks about both. 1 Cor 14, e.g., seems to be talking about "heavenly" languages (speaking not to men but to God) and Acts 2 has earthly languages that were not learned by the speakers in the normal way.

Just saying.Good point. I guess there is our evidence of glossololia, hmm. Then there's the prayerful 'groanings' thing. Wow.

[houston]

Well, yikes? Good point. I guess there is our evidence of glossololia, hmm. Then there's the prayerful 'groanings' thing. Wow.how do you groan groanings that can not be uttered?

[Timmy]

how do you groan groanings that can not be uttered?

Even before I left pentecostalism, I had my doubts about applying that scripture to tongues. It says the Spirit prays. It's not you praying, and it's not the Spirit praying "through you". And it is groanings that cannot be uttered.

It's about untongues. :lol

[houston]

Even before I left pentecostalism, I had my doubts about applying that scripture to tongues. It says the Spirit prays. It's not you praying, and it's not the Spirit praying "through you". And it is groanings that cannot be uttered. It's about untongues. :lolRight

[shazeep]

Well, i resonate with you guys; but then, we live a very sheltered...'life.'

[Abiding Now]

we don't care
:laffatu

[shazeep]

:lol

[shazeep]

Even before I left pentecostalism, I had my doubts about applying that scripture to tongues. It says the Spirit prays. It's not you praying, and it's not the Spirit praying "through you". And it is groanings that cannot be uttered.

It's about untongues. :lolreally, it all kind of gets overthought, when the realities are seen in practice, at least in an active prayer life.