View Full Version : Mental Illness Revisited...
Jermyn Davidson
09-12-2013, 10:54 AM
I am really having a difficult time rationalizing how a person who is filled with the Holy Ghost AND living a life of holiness can be diagnosed with Major Depression, have suicidal thoughts, sadness that seems to re-occur repeatedly... how can I be witnessing this in a person who I KNOW is saved?
Really-- how is it possible?
Is this person maybe not even saved?
How do you reach someone seemingly trapped in this cycle?
Aquila
09-12-2013, 10:59 AM
The body is a biological machine. Sin has effected this machine and as a result it is fallen and doesn't work properly. It is still subject to sinful desires, aging, disease, atrophy, and death. Although one receives the Holy Ghost into their "spirit", it doesn't "change" the body. The body can still have various genetic and hormonal issues. Some of these affect the chemical levels in the brain causing depression, suicidal thoughts, sadness, etc.
We tend to think that it is purely emotional and immaterial. But fluctuating or insufficient chemical levels in the brain can bring on these symptoms. It's an infirmity of the flesh.
endtimer
09-12-2013, 11:06 AM
The body is a biological machine. Sin has effected this machine and as a result it is fallen and doesn't work properly. It is still subject to sinful desires, aging, disease, atrophy, and death. Although one receives the Holy Ghost into their "spirit", it doesn't "change" the body. The body can still have various genetic and hormonal issues. Some of these affect the chemical levels in the brain causing depression, suicidal thoughts, sadness, etc.
We tend to think that it is purely emotional and immaterial. But fluctuating or insufficient chemical levels in the brain can bring on these symptoms. It's an infirmity of the flesh.
Right on.:thumbsup
navygoat1998
09-12-2013, 11:16 AM
I am really having a difficult time rationalizing how a person who is filled with the Holy Ghost AND living a life of holiness can be diagnosed with Major Depression, have suicidal thoughts, sadness that seems to re-occur repeatedly... how can I be witnessing this in a person who I KNOW is saved?
Really-- how is it possible?
Is this person maybe not even saved?
How do you reach someone seemingly trapped in this cycle?
JD how is it that you still sin and yet you are filled with the Holy Ghost??
We live in a broken world and we are broken people and our only hope is in Christ. People break, people sin and people die.
We will never be complete this side of Heaven.
Funny Baptist and Pentecostals suffer from the same things.
Healing comes quickly and other times not. They need help and I mean Christian professional help not doing the the funky chicken at the altar while speaking in tongues.
The same way people with the Holy Ghost get a broken leg or cancer or diabetes.
BeenThinkin
09-12-2013, 11:36 AM
The same way people with the Holy Ghost get a broken leg or cancer or diabetes.
Wouldn't it be wonderful if we were all so "super spiritual" that none of the things in this world would effect us. Somewhere it said it rains on the just and unjust a like!
BT
i dont understand why most of humanity sees sickness that affects the brain differently than they do sickness that affects the rest of the body.
depression is most often sickeness that affects the brain. if you had cancer you would agressively treat it.
if it is the brain, people run and hide and dont want anyone to know.
As far as them being trapped in that cycle, you wouldn't tell someone with cancer or diabetes to just get over it or just pray harder......but that often happens with depression and makes matters worse.
Aquila
09-12-2013, 11:59 AM
i dont understand why most of humanity sees sickness that affects the brain differently than they do sickness that affects the rest of the body.
depression is most often sickeness that affects the brain. if you had cancer you would agressively treat it.
if it is the brain, people run and hide and dont want anyone to know.
So true. It has a stigma. Many are told to "just get over it" or to "just cheer up". Some are told "be positive". Or, "your problem is your attitude".
Clinical depression is more than a passing emotion or feeling blue. It's a disease that affects the brain. It often requires medication or change of diet to be remedied.
Aquila
09-12-2013, 11:59 AM
As far as them being trapped in that cycle, you wouldn't tell someone with cancer or diabetes to just get over it or just pray harder......but that often happens with depression and makes matters worse.
Amen.
Aquila
09-12-2013, 12:04 PM
Some emotional experiences can alter brain chemistry and/or function. I have a mild PTSD that can get out of hand if I'm not careful to recognize the symptoms when they are coming on.
Here's a little about this condition...
http://krillco.hubpages.com/hub/The-Brain--Brain-Chemistry--And-PTSD
Yes, I was in the military. However, the majority of my PTSD came from childhood abuse. My counselor helped bring to light that even my highly emotional and traumatic experiences in church are contributing factors. He has seen people come out of various churches and religions with PTSD.
My counselor has assisted me with Rapid Eye Movement Therapy. It helps.
RandyWayne
09-12-2013, 12:08 PM
Some emotional experiences can alter brain chemistry and/or function. I have a mild PTSD that can get out of hand if I'm not careful to recognize the symptoms when they are coming on.
Here's a little about this condition...
http://krillco.hubpages.com/hub/The-Brain--Brain-Chemistry--And-PTSD
Yes, I was in the military. However, the majority of my PTSD came from childhood abuse. My counselor helped bring to light that even my highly emotional and traumatic experiences in church are contributing factors. He has seen people come out of various churches and religions with PTSD.
My counselor has assisted me with Rapid Eye Movement Therapy. It helps.
I know some here have poo poo'ed church experiences causing PTSD, but let me assure you that they can and do. To this day, I can react to a song service like a vietnam vet hearing a type writer in the background -with sudden shaking and cold sweats along with a desire to run in a random direction as far and fast as I can. My reaction to apostolic holiness religion from 30 years ago has forever shaped my view on things.
Aquila
09-12-2013, 12:15 PM
I know some here have poo poo'ed church experiences causing PTSD, but let me assure you that they can and do. To this day, I can react to a song service like a vietnam vet hearing a type writer in the background -with sudden shaking and cold sweats along with a desire to run in a random direction as far and fast as I can. My reaction to apostolic holiness religion from 30 years ago has forever shaped my view on things.
I know. I start to freak out. It's like the walls are closing in on me, I can break into a cold sweat, and I feel shaky. Sometimes I feel physically ill after attending. Just last year I attended a drama at a church I used to attend. For the rest of the night it was like my mind was racing. I couldn't focus. I felt sick to my stomach. I was very irritable. I'll be honest... I prayed, poured some wine, put on some soft jazz, and practiced my breathing and positive memory focus. I fell asleep... I was TOTALLY drained the next day.
It's terrible. That "preacher voice" with the deep phony "vibrato" makes me so tense and shaky I can't listen to it long at all.
I also can't take loud noises. I've dealt with two very intense moments involving being fired upon. However, my therapist thinks that much of my reaction to loud noises is related to my childhood and the experiences I had.
In another thread I was trying to find something on Lee Stoneking on Youtube. I began watching one video and within minutes I felt the muscles in my neck tightening and I had to turn it off. And honestly, analytically speaking, it was a video of LS that is really really good.
I have PTSD from my church experience. Just saying.
I am reading The Last Best Cure right now. It talks about childhood experiences in trauma literally changing your brain. The higher the ACE score the worse your health as an adult is likely to be. Interesting stuff.
There is nothing like having traumatic childhood experiences, developing depression and then being blamed for it by your pastor. I speak from personal experience. Thank God I climbed out.
Aquila
09-12-2013, 12:27 PM
I have PTSD from my church experience. Just saying.
I think many people suffer from PTSD as a result of their church experiences. Authoritarian spiritual and emotional abuse damages people more than many realize. In addition, being dangled over Hell three or more times a week without ever achieving a place in God wherein you feel He loves you and is entirely pleased with you can also lead to PTSD.
Yes, we all need to be warned about sin and it's consequences. But many times it's delivered time and time and time again. If one truly believes in God and Hell... and only experiences fear of going to Hell over and over again... it can psychologically damage them.
I think many people suffer from PTSD as a result of their church experiences. Authoritarian spiritual and emotional abuse damages people more than many realize. In addition, being dangled over Hell three or more times a week without ever achieving a place in God wherein you feel He loves you and is entirely pleased with you can also lead to PTSD.
Yes, we all need to be warned about sin and it's consequences. But many times it's delivered time and time and time again. If one truly believes in God and Hell... and only experiences fear of going to Hell over and over again... it can psychologically damage them.
You can read about my experience in A Wrecked Church thread. I told the story that one time in that one thread and my back and neck ached for days afterwards. I don't care to repeat it. ;)
Timmy
09-12-2013, 01:20 PM
I am really having a difficult time rationalizing how a person who is filled with the Holy Ghost AND living a life of holiness can be diagnosed with Major Depression, have suicidal thoughts, sadness that seems to re-occur repeatedly... how can I be witnessing this in a person who I KNOW is saved?
Really-- how is it possible? ...
Can't happen. 2 Timothy 1:7.
KWSS1976
09-12-2013, 01:57 PM
Timmy, we all know that scripture really does not mean what it clearly says....:kickcan
Aquila
09-12-2013, 02:07 PM
Can't happen. 2 Timothy 1:7.
I don't believe that Scripture means what many claim it means. I believe that it's talking about serving God out of fear.
Evang.Benincasa
09-12-2013, 02:14 PM
I don't believe that Scripture means what many claim it means. I believe that it's talking about serving God out of fear.
2 Timothy 1:7 sound mind means sound mind.
Now please forgive me in advanced, but I think the problem is that most of you people believe that personal experience validates the Bible. Therefore if you are bipolar and believe you have the Holy Ghost and still continue being bipolar, then the Bible needs to be modified for your personal experience? Because evidently the scripture has to be interpreted a different way because obviously Joe Foofoofnick has to have the Holy Ghost? How about Joe doesn't have the Holy Ghost, how about if his lack of soundness of mind is do to Joe not even being saved? Just saying.
;)
KWSS1976
09-12-2013, 02:18 PM
Yup, its pretty cut and dry..
Well the Bible also says the prayer of faith shall save the sick. If you are sick and you are not healed it's your own fault (says so right there!). But cancer is okay but depression is not???
Someone wrote me personally and asked about how to find my posts in A Wrecked Church. You will have to sift through that thread by Still Standing in order to find my posts within it if you are interested.
Evang.Benincasa
09-12-2013, 02:48 PM
Well the Bible also says the prayer of faith shall save the sick. If you are sick and you are not healed it's your own fault (says so right there!). But cancer is okay but depression is not???
Yes, it says the prayer of faith shall heal the sick. So, if you aren't healed then the scripture is wrong?
Aquila
09-12-2013, 02:51 PM
2 Timothy 1:7 sound mind means sound mind.
Now please forgive me in advanced, but I think the problem is that most of you people believe that personal experience validates the Bible. Therefore if you are bipolar and believe you have the Holy Ghost and still continue being bipolar, then the Bible needs to be modified for your personal experience? Because evidently the scripture has to be interpreted a different way because obviously Joe Foofoofnick has to have the Holy Ghost? How about Joe doesn't have the Holy Ghost, how about if his lack of soundness of mind is do to Joe not even being saved? Just saying.
;)
Bro... there are studies that show chemical levels and activity in the brain. Those with clinical depression and PTSD actually show "physiological changes" in the brain. It can be measured, charted, and studied. It's not just "in one's head". Honestly, I'm shocked that you'd imply that. It's a proven fact that various therapies, medications, or changes in diet are necessary to heal and stabilize the brain.
I'd submit to you that Paul was writing to Timothy about keeping the faith... and most likely Timothy didn't face a serious mental illness.
I doubt Paul would flippantly dismiss the trauma of a soldier reliving combat or an abused child reliving the abuse if he were writing to them.
llambert
09-12-2013, 02:55 PM
This is such an interesting and meaningful subject to me.
I believe that some of us have been gifted by God with great sensitivities that other people simply don't have. Some people can be very damaged by things that other people just shrug off. If I had a dollar for every time I have heard someone say, "Just get over it...."
I know people who get very emotionally upset at just the mention of any of the following words:
-Religion
- organized religion
- church
-Jesus Christ
-hell
-Pentecostal
Those people in the church world who just say "Get over it" may never become sensitive to why others have strong reactions and honestly, I think waiting for them to become sensitized isn't the way to go. That's like relying on other people to save or deliver us.
I could really see how being in a loud church environment could not be a good fit for some of us, so I want to ask this question:
Has anyone been in Oneness of God in Jesus Christ fellowship services where people receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit with speaking in tongues as the initial evidence and there wasn't a kind of mass hysteria, emotional contagion sort of atmosphere (people yelling, screaming, hollering, running the aisles)?
I was filled in an InterVarsity prayer meeting in my HS at age 17 and come to think of it now, that meeting wasn't your typical "Pentecostal" service.
What happened was that we would have prayer and bible study every Wed after school. On one Wed, as we were getting ready to pray out, two of the club members came in late. One said that he had gone to the other's church the Sun before and had received the Holy Ghost baptism and that it felt like electricity running all through his body. I didn't think that much of it. As we were praying out, the prayer became fervent. I opened my eyes to see my classmate on his knees praying intently. I asked the club member whose church the electricity guy had gone to
"What's happening to him?"
and he said, "He's getting the Holy Ghost."
So in my mind, I said, "God, give me the Holy Ghost, too."
The next thing you know, I was speaking in a new language.
One other club member began to speak in a new language, as well as my classmate who was on his knees.
None of us fell out, screamed, rolled on the floor, barked like dogs or demonstrated any other dramatic manifestations.
Now when I went to the club member's church (an "apostolic" church, I'd prefer not to say which organization), the normal atmosphere in which people received the Holy Ghost was very, very loud. We would dance on a Sunday night to the point that the floor would shake and the dust would rise from the rugs. Shouting and dancing were very much the norm. The more you "shouted", the more you were cheered on and affirmed as "belonging".
Don't get me wrong, I think free emotional expression has its place in church. I still dance in church when I have the mind to. But I think the danger is when those of us who are more highly sensitive get caught up in the emotional atmosphere of the church world, we can go into the soulish realm and get out from under God's divine protection.
Aquila
09-12-2013, 02:55 PM
Yes, it says the prayer of faith shall heal the sick. So, if you aren't healed then the scripture is wrong?
Sometimes healing is internal. Sometimes the inner healing brings peace between the dying and God.
We must keep in mind that physical healing is dependent upon God's will. If God desires to take one home, and it is there appointed time, we do well to accept God's will for the circumstance.
Even Paul prayed that an infirmity be taken from him. And it wasn't. Instead it taught Paul that God's strength is made perfect in human weakness.
Timothy had issues with his stomach (ulcers?). Paul advised "a little wine". Timothy wasn't in absolutely perfect health either.
Aquila
09-12-2013, 02:57 PM
I roll with house churches. I've seen people receive the Spirit in living rooms wherein people are standing and praying soundly. No music or hysteria.
Please note... I'm not against anything in Pentecostal worship accept carnal excesses for attention.
Yes, it says the prayer of faith shall heal the sick. So, if you aren't healed then the scripture is wrong?
Your interpretation is wrong.
Evang.Benincasa
09-12-2013, 03:17 PM
Your interpretation is wrong.
Hence there lies the whole issue, because people can't imagine that the Bible isn't always going to validate their personal experiences, nor will their personal experiences always line up with the Bible. If they never see miraculous healing of cancer then bless God, it isn't possible for cancer to be healed? If they never see someone healed of bipolar than it just doesn't happen?
Hence there lies the whole issue, because people can't imagine that the Bible isn't always going to validate their personal experiences, nor will their personal experiences always line up with the Bible. If they never see miraculous healing of cancer then bless God, it isn't possible for cancer to be healed? If they never see someone healed of bipolar than it just doesn't happen?
No one said it isn't possible.
Evang.Benincasa
09-12-2013, 03:27 PM
No one said it isn't possible.
Then it isn't possible to be able to have a sound mind through Jesus Christ?
navygoat1998
09-12-2013, 03:30 PM
This is such an interesting and meaningful subject to me.
I believe that some of us have been gifted by God with great sensitivities that other people simply don't have. Some people can be very damaged by things that other people just shrug off. If I had a dollar for every time I have heard someone say, "Just get over it...."
I know people who get very emotionally upset at just the mention of any of the following words:
-Religion
- organized religion
- church
-Jesus Christ
-hell
-Pentecostal
Those people in the church world who just say "Get over it" may never become sensitive to why others have strong reactions and honestly, I think waiting for them to become sensitized isn't the way to go. That's like relying on other people to save or deliver us.
I could really see how being in a loud church environment could not be a good fit for some of us, so I want to ask this question:
Has anyone been in Oneness of God in Jesus Christ fellowship services where people receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit with speaking in tongues as the initial evidence and there wasn't a kind of mass hysteria, emotional contagion sort of atmosphere (people yelling, screaming, hollering, running the aisles)?
I was filled in an InterVarsity prayer meeting in my HS at age 17 and come to think of it now, that meeting wasn't your typical "Pentecostal" service.
What happened was that we would have prayer and bible study every Wed after school. On one Wed, as we were getting ready to pray out, two of the club members came in late. One said that he had gone to the other's church the Sun before and had received the Holy Ghost baptism and that it felt like electricity running all through his body. I didn't think that much of it. As we were praying out, the prayer became fervent. I opened my eyes to see my classmate on his knees praying intently. I asked the club member whose church the electricity guy had gone to
"What's happening to him?"
and he said, "He's getting the Holy Ghost."
So in my mind, I said, "God, give me the Holy Ghost, too."
The next thing you know, I was speaking in a new language.
One other club member began to speak in a new language, as well as my classmate who was on his knees.
None of us fell out, screamed, rolled on the floor, barked like dogs or demonstrated any other dramatic manifestations.
Now when I went to the club member's church (an "apostolic" church, I'd prefer not to say which organization), the normal atmosphere in which people received the Holy Ghost was very, very loud. We would dance on a Sunday night to the point that the floor would shake and the dust would rise from the rugs. Shouting and dancing were very much the norm. The more you "shouted", the more you were cheered on and affirmed as "belonging".
Don't get me wrong, I think free emotional expression has its place in church. I still dance in church when I have the mind to. But I think the danger is when those of us who are more highly sensitive get caught up in the emotional atmosphere of the church world, we can go into the soulish realm and get out from under God's divine protection.
That's funny now that you mention that, when I received the Baptism of the Holy Ghost in the Church of God the pastor told us to lineup in the front and tonight that we were going to receive the Holy Ghost.
Honestly up to that point I had never heard about the Baptism of the Holy Ghost. So all of us youth right down the line received the Baptism but there was no hooping and hollering not even any music in the background. But yet there were tongues aflame.
After we left UPC and started attending AG churches,I noticed that the Baptism of the Holy Ghost was much like my Church of God experience. In fairness I have seen some very wild AG services and they will open the altars and the get flooded with those seeking the Holy Ghost. I think the last one I saw was on Pentecost Sunday.
Evang.Benincasa
09-12-2013, 03:33 PM
That's funny now that you mention that, when I received the Baptism of the Holy Ghost in the Church of God the pastor told us to lineup in the front and tonight that we were going to receive the Holy Ghost.
Honestly up to that point I had never heard about the Baptism of the Holy Ghost. So all of us youth right down the line received the Baptism but there was no hooping and hollering not even any music in the background. But yet there were tongues aflame.
After we left UPC and started attending AG churches,I noticed that the Baptism of the Holy Ghost was much like my Church of God experience. In fairness I have seen some very wild AG services and they will open the altars and the get flooded with those seeking the Holy Ghost. I think the last one I saw was on Pentecost Sunday.
The Industrial Church Complex
Then it isn't possible to be able to have a sound mind through Jesus Christ?
Of course it is possible. That doesn't mean that everyone who knows God will have a sounds mind or they are not right with God. Big difference.
Evang.Benincasa
09-12-2013, 03:41 PM
Of course it is possible. That doesn't mean that everyone who knows God will have a sounds mind or they are not right with God. Big difference.
Is it also possible that they don't know God?
I mean for Jesus to be ousting individuals who were doing MIRACLES in His name, then telling them He NEVER knew them, is a pretty strong indicator that there are those who will be surprised to know that they NEVER knew God.
Is it also possible that they don't know God?
I mean for Jesus to be ousting individuals who were doing MIRACLES in His name, then telling them He NEVER knew them, is a pretty strong indicator that there are those who will be surprised to know that they NEVER knew God.
It's possible.
Is it possible for someone who knows God to be majorly depressed?
Comfort ye.....comfort ye, my people.
This means YOU comfort the people. You tell them things will be okay. You support them and love them.
Sweet Pea
09-12-2013, 07:10 PM
Evang.Benincasa
Yes, I put your name big and bold - I want you to know that I'm talking to you. :nod
I have been in Oneness Pentecost all my life (and that's quite a few years). The first place my mother took me after my birth was to church. I have SEEN with my own eyes miraculous healings! I personally have been healed - on many one occasions.
I have also seen friends and relatives that God did not heal of cancer and other terminal diseases. It in NO way discredits God or causes me to lose faith in Him. Sometimes I question and wonder - but I stand on the fact that I personally believe God does ALL things well. I also DO NOT believe that when someone isn't healed that it is a lack of faith on their part (or anyone else's)! Having said all of that....
Until you have sat with, cried with, prayed with and hurt with someone who suffers from a mental "illness", you cannot understand the depth of despair that comments like your cause. I am close to someone who most definitely has a physiological cause of mental distress. I'm talking about severe and debilitating anxiety, depression and fear - almost to the point of suicide. The fear mostly due to their spiritual well-being - ALL because some "good hearted" person told them to fast, pray and "get over it".
They can't "get over it" any more that they can "get over cancer". Either God performs a miraculous healing - OR He uses medical science. HE gave the knowledge and I believe we are to use it.
Having said all that, I personally believe that a born-again, Holy Ghost Christian should not suffer from the day to day "depression" and "blues" that affect a lot of people in our culture today. I believe that we are to live a victorious and overcoming life. But sometimes in the living, there are those who suffer untold misery and pain because people don't have any empathy for a very real and true illness of the mind!!!! These people need our support and prayer and furthermore, their families need more support and prayer than you could ever imagine. There are CHRISTIAN - HOLY GHOST filled medical doctors who can counsel and help someone get through this.
For too long the church has ignored this issue and stated that "you don't need zoloft, prozac, anxiety medication, Bless God, you just need a good dose of the Holy Ghost!" I personally know someone who IS Holy Ghost filled and portrays a more Christ-like spirit than most people in church; however, this person deals with major depression and anxiety on a day to day basis - just praying and waiting for the miraculous healing!!! In the meantime, this person cannot make it through life without the aid of medication prescribed by a medical doctor and don't you (or anyone else) even begin to insinuate that this person doesn't "know" God.
I will climb down off my soapbox now and go quietly on my way - but please stop and think before you speak in this manner again. I pray that you or someone close to you is never afflicted by any type of mental illness! It can be hell on earth and only knowing Jesus has helped this person I know survive!
RandyWayne
09-12-2013, 07:22 PM
Like I have said on many occasions, I too suffer from major depression. God has never healed me of it, but He HAS helped me tremendously to deal with it.
Sweet Pea
09-12-2013, 07:27 PM
Randy, my heart breaks for those who suffer from major depression and anxiety. May the Lord continue to help you - and believing with you for a complete and total healing - in God's time!
endtimer
09-12-2013, 07:34 PM
Like I have said on many occasions, I too suffer from major depression. God has never healed me of it, but He HAS helped me tremendously to deal with it.
I suffered with it for a few years during my pastorate and for about a year after. It took me a long time to recognize and admit I was dealing with it. I even argued with the Dr. over it because I didnt believe HG filled believers got depressed. The Dr won that argument. God did help me with it for a few years and eventually miraculously healed me. Havent dealt with it since. It's been at least 5-6 years. praise God! BTW the dirty secret is... many preachers deal with depression but don't say anything because of the stigma. Very few of my friends know about my situation.
Jermyn Davidson
09-12-2013, 08:33 PM
Someone very close has been dx'd with TBI, PTSD, Major Depression w/ psychotic features, Anxiety Disorder and has had at least four occasions where this person was very sad and suicidal (with a plan, and clearly expressed it).
At times, I believe this someone to be a genuine Christian, but honestly, I just don't know how it is possible for this person to have the dramatic highs and the traumatic lows like so.
When this person is down, this person is really, really down-- saying and maybe even believing things like God hates him, there isn't a God or else He wouldn't have allowed X, Y, and Q (because X, Y, and Z would be logical but this person isn't logical when they are sad).
It's frustrating to realize the sickness, realize what's happening, but be absolutely unable to do anything about it for this person.
Sometimes, I wonder if the person will ever go all the way one day.
navygoat1998
09-12-2013, 08:38 PM
Like I have said on many occasions, I too suffer from major depression. God has never healed me of it, but He HAS helped me tremendously to deal with it.
Randy I row the boat as well. It is not fun and some days it just sucks to me.
I have screamed at the top of my lungs during my prayer time than I care to tell, to just to ask God if he does not see what I am going through. The ceiling is quiet most times and other time I have felt a peace come over me.
Randy I pray allot and I run so I keep balance.
Through it all God has been good to me!
Evang.Benincasa
09-12-2013, 09:07 PM
Evang.Benincasa
Yes, I put your name big and bold - I want you to know that I'm talking to you. :nod
I have been in Oneness Pentecost all my life (and that's quite a few years). The first place my mother took me after my birth was to church. I have SEEN with my own eyes miraculous healings! I personally have been healed - on many one occasions.
I have also seen friends and relatives that God did not heal of cancer and other terminal diseases. It in NO way discredits God or causes me to lose faith in Him. Sometimes I question and wonder - but I stand on the fact that I personally believe God does ALL things well. I also DO NOT believe that when someone isn't healed that it is a lack of faith on their part (or anyone else's)! Having said all of that....
Until you have sat with, cried with, prayed with and hurt with someone who suffers from a mental "illness", you cannot understand the depth of despair that comments like your cause. I am close to someone who most definitely has a physiological cause of mental distress. I'm talking about severe and debilitating anxiety, depression and fear - almost to the point of suicide. The fear mostly due to their spiritual well-being - ALL because some "good hearted" person told them to fast, pray and "get over it".
They can't "get over it" any more that they can "get over cancer". Either God performs a miraculous healing - OR He uses medical science. HE gave the knowledge and I believe we are to use it.
Having said all that, I personally believe that a born-again, Holy Ghost Christian should not suffer from the day to day "depression" and "blues" that affect a lot of people in our culture today. I believe that we are to live a victorious and overcoming life. But sometimes in the living, there are those who suffer untold misery and pain because people don't have any empathy for a very real and true illness of the mind!!!! These people need our support and prayer and furthermore, their families need more support and prayer than you could ever imagine. There are CHRISTIAN - HOLY GHOST filled medical doctors who can counsel and help someone get through this.
For too long the church has ignored this issue and stated that "you don't need zoloft, prozac, anxiety medication, Bless God, you just need a good dose of the Holy Ghost!" I personally know someone who IS Holy Ghost filled and portrays a more Christ-like spirit than most people in church; however, this person deals with major depression and anxiety on a day to day basis - just praying and waiting for the miraculous healing!!! In the meantime, this person cannot make it through life without the aid of medication prescribed by a medical doctor and don't you (or anyone else) even begin to insinuate that this person doesn't "know" God.
I will climb down off my soapbox now and go quietly on my way - but please stop and think before you speak in this manner again. I pray that you or someone close to you is never afflicted by any type of mental illness! It can be hell on earth and only knowing Jesus has helped this person I know survive!
SWEET PEA
I return the favor with the large font.
Because I want you to know that you don't know me.
You know nothing about my life, what I have been through in my past, and in my present. :)
Depression? Not since I have been in the Apostolic Faith, and believe me if anyone can tell horror stories it can be me. Please forgive me, but I feel I need to say this, maybe being in the Oneness Pentecostal movement since birth might of been more of deficient then a plus, especially in this area.
Mental illness is not an illness. Scarlet fever is an illness, Spring fever is a feeling.
Psychotropic medications are worse than the cure, because the side effects need more meds to counteract the bad side effects. I work with people who are suffering (not from their supposed illness) but from the psychotropics they take. Which isn't medicine, but are hard mind medication. Look through the DSM-IV read through all the so-called mental illnesses. That's madness.
I know people who have broken free from the quagmire called psychiatry.
Evang.Benincasa
09-12-2013, 09:10 PM
It's possible.
Is it possible for someone who knows God to be majorly depressed?
Why? Why saddle someone with the least, instead of giving them the hope that they can break free?
Evang.Benincasa
09-12-2013, 09:21 PM
Someone very close has been dx'd with TBI, PTSD, Major Depression w/ psychotic features, Anxiety Disorder and has had at least four occasions where this person was very sad and suicidal (with a plan, and clearly expressed it).
At times, I believe this someone to be a genuine Christian, but honestly, I just don't know how it is possible for this person to have the dramatic highs and the traumatic lows like so.
When this person is down, this person is really, really down-- saying and maybe even believing things like God hates him, there isn't a God or else He wouldn't have allowed X, Y, and Q (because X, Y, and Z would be logical but this person isn't logical when they are sad).
It's frustrating to realize the sickness, realize what's happening, but be absolutely unable to do anything about it for this person.
Sometimes, I wonder if the person will ever go all the way one day.
You are talking about bipolar, that is what my wife suffered with her entire life. She had a really bad situation which had her go to a UPCI church which was pastored by Brother Wayne Rooks, and Brother Bobby Stewart. When she received the Holy Ghost with evidence of speaking in other tongues she was healed and never had another episode. Never, we have two beautiful girls and my wife has been through a lot since she as (an evangelist's wife) has been in the church, but NEVER has had an episode with the issues of bipolar. I will be praying for your friend, keep praying with him, and telling him he can do it through the power of Jesus Christ.
RandyWayne
09-12-2013, 09:24 PM
Randy I row the boat as well. It is not fun and some days it just sucks to me.
I have screamed at the top of my lungs during my prayer time than I care to tell, to just to ask God if he does not see what I am going through. The ceiling is quiet most times and other time I have felt a peace come over me.
Randy I pray allot and I run so I keep balance.
Through it all God has been good to me!
I pray as well, but I have also learned to pray sight unseen a long time ago. The reason? All of those who say "Just give it to God and claim the victory!" and "You just need a good prayin through!" don't need to see me pray. Most of those are like Job's friends and wife who, once he wasn't instantly delivered from his trials, just told him to curse God and die because obviously he (Job) was at fault somehow and should just give in.
RandyWayne
09-12-2013, 09:25 PM
You are talking about bipolar, that is what my wife suffered with her entire life. She had a really bad situation which had her go to a UPCI church which was pastored by Brother Wayne Rooks, and Brother Bobby Stewart. When she received the Holy Ghost with evidence of speaking in other tongues she was healed and never had another episode. Never, we have two beautiful girls and my wife has been through a lot since she as (an evangelist's wife) has been in the church, but NEVER has had an episode with the issues of bipolar. I will be praying for your friend, keep praying with him, and telling him he can do it through the power of Jesus Christ.
If she did complain about "feeling down" or depression, would you listen? Or slap her on the forehead with a loud "In JESUS name!" rebuke and shove her on her merry way? MANY won't admit to depression because of the latter response from people they know.
Evang.Benincasa
09-12-2013, 09:36 PM
If she did complain about "feeling down" or depression, would you listen? Or slap her on the forehead with a loud "In JESUS name!" rebuke and shove her on her marry way? MANY won't admit to depression because of the latter response from people they know.
Shove her on her marry way?
Hitting the scotch tonight? :heeheehee
Evang.Benincasa
09-12-2013, 09:39 PM
If she did complain about "feeling down" or depression, would you listen? Or slap her on the forehead with a loud "In JESUS name!" rebuke and shove her on her marry way? MANY won't admit to depression because of the latter response from people they know.
No, Randy, she has never had an episode and unless you have experienced severe bipolar then you know it can't be hidden. Hey, doesn't your wife have an uncle with bipolar? Then if it's a severe situation you know it can't be masked.
:nod
Sweet Pea
09-12-2013, 10:04 PM
EB
Yes, I would agree that sometimes being raised in Oneness Pentecostalism can be a detriment in some areas. Especially when you have been taught only the judgement of God and didn't get a real revelation of the GRACE of God until later in life.
I'm sorry if I came across judgmental to you. No, I don't know you and what you have been through in your life. I am very thankful and praise the Lord with you for your wife's miraculous healing of her bipolar issues. And yes.... I personally know of others who have been miraculously healed of mental issues. But I'm sorry, we will just have to agree to disagree on this point. I have medical personnel in whom I have a lot of confidence that are, in fact, filled with the Holy Ghost who will differ with you as well.
Personally, until God sees fit to miraculously heal this particular person that I am close to, I will continue to encourage them to take the meds (and vitamins) that have been prescribed. I would much rather that than have to help plan a funeral!
RandyWayne
09-12-2013, 10:18 PM
Shove her on her marry way?
Hitting the scotch tonight? :heeheehee
Naw, I would have far more misspellings if that was the case. And yes, that was one. But THAT is called dyslexia. Probably just another demon needing to be rebuked. . .
RandyWayne
09-12-2013, 10:20 PM
No, Randy, she has never had an episode and unless you have experienced severe bipolar then you know it can't be hidden. Hey, doesn't your wife have an uncle with bipolar? Then if it's a severe situation you know it can't be masked.
:nod.
No. Other issues yes, but not bipolar. Of course she has so many uncles and aunts (and cousins) that if anyone came along with a "word of knowledge" and said "and you have a relative suffering from <fill in the blank>" they would probably get it right.
Evang.Benincasa
09-12-2013, 10:45 PM
Naw, I would have far more misspellings if that was the case. And yes, that was one. But THAT is called dyslexia. Probably just another demon needing to be rebuked. . .
Demon?
More like you're drinking a little too much Rockstar with Red Bull chasers. :nod
Evang.Benincasa
09-12-2013, 10:46 PM
.
No. Other issues yes, but not bipolar. Of course she has so many uncles and aunts (and cousins) that if anyone came along with a "word of knowledge" and said "and you have a relative suffering from <fill in the blank>" they would probably get it right.
I PMed you the information you once gave me. :)
Evang.Benincasa
09-12-2013, 11:01 PM
EB
Yes, I would agree that sometimes being raised in Oneness Pentecostalism can be a detriment in some areas. Especially when you have been taught only the judgement of God and didn't get a real revelation of the GRACE of God until later in life.
I'm sorry if I came across judgmental to you. No, I don't know you and what you have been through in your life. I am very thankful and praise the Lord with you for your wife's miraculous healing of her bipolar issues. And yes.... I personally know of others who have been miraculously healed of mental issues. But I'm sorry, we will just have to agree to disagree on this point. I have medical personnel in whom I have a lot of confidence that are, in fact, filled with the Holy Ghost who will differ with you as well.
Personally, until God sees fit to miraculously heal this particular person that I am close to, I will continue to encourage them to take the meds (and vitamins) that have been prescribed. I would much rather that than have to help plan a funeral!
Well, I guess I will have to firmly disagree.
With all due respect you obviously clearly don't know how powerful and dangerous those drugs are that your friend is taking. The vitamins mixed with the psychotropics is like mixing spring water with scotch, and thinking you are doing something healthy. Ask your friend, for the list of their meds, and go on line and search their side effects. The problem is this, the cure is worst than the curse. Encourage your friend to seek Jesus Christ, but if they are being taken care of by the state, they are condemned to be on their meds forever. Because they are told there is no cure, but only to keep the illness under control. That is a living hell. One young man who lives on the streets here in Fort Lauderdale (we have a large population on homeless on psychotropics in my city) is on 10 different psychotropics, and why does he take so many? Mainly because of side effects. When they try to wean themselves off their meds they start to hear voices, and other bizarre issues. Suicide is the most common when they try to come off the meds, or having to be Baker acted and locked up in the county psych ward for observation. It is horrible.
Yet I believe as the Lord Jesus Christ healed Sister Benincasa, He can and has healed many others.
The Lord Jesus Christ touch your friend.
Sweet Pea
09-12-2013, 11:12 PM
EB - I have done a lot of research regarding the meds that have been prescribed. Frankly, the side effects from medications for high blood pressure and high trigylcerides scare me more. This individual is not getting any help from the state. In fact, all payment has been out of pocket - This person is not a "street person" - but, a well respected member of the community and local church.
"Encourage your friend to seek Jesus Christ..." - your words brought tears of frustration to my eyes. If you could only understand - seeking Jesus for 18 months - fasting and prayer - this has been done not only by my friend but all the family as well. By prayer warriors at the church. The day we realized that suicide was just around the corner because there was no miraculous healing, was the day we found a CHRISTIAN - BORN AGAIN doctor who could help. Meds are closely monitored by the doctor and the basis for the counseling at each visit is scripture based.
All I ask - is please don't judge Christians who face these issues. That only compounds their problems.
RandyWayne
09-12-2013, 11:26 PM
I PMed you the information you once gave me. :)
I got it, thanks. I offered a slight clarification about his condition, which is probably so close, at least in appearance to bi-polar, that there may not be enough difference to count.
Evang.Benincasa
09-12-2013, 11:27 PM
EB - I have done a lot of research regarding the meds that have been prescribed. Frankly, the side effects from medications for high blood pressure and high trigylcerides scare me more. This individual is not getting any help from the state. In fact, all payment has been out of pocket - This person is not a "street person" - but, a well respected member of the community and local church.
"Encourage your friend to seek Jesus Christ..." - your words brought tears of frustration to my eyes. If you could only understand - seeking Jesus for 18 months - fasting and prayer - this has been done not only by my friend but all the family as well. By prayer warriors at the church. The day we realized that suicide was just around the corner because there was no miraculous healing, was the day we found a CHRISTIAN - BORN AGAIN doctor who could help. Meds are closely monitored by the doctor and the basis for the counseling at each visit is scripture based.
All I ask - is please don't judge Christians who face these issues. That only compounds their problems.
Listen, I'll stick to issues that I'm dealing with and I pray you will be strengthened in the ones you are dealing with. I don't know your situation, ad at this point think it imprudent to guess.
Yet, how could anyone be frustrated with hearing the blessing of encouragement? Jesus will take care of your friend and also get him off the drugs. High blood pressure? High blood pressure might be one side effect, but Suicidal ideation can be another. What is the list of your friends meds?
RandyWayne
09-12-2013, 11:32 PM
EB - I have done a lot of research regarding the meds that have been prescribed. Frankly, the side effects from medications for high blood pressure and high trigylcerides scare me more. This individual is not getting any help from the state. In fact, all payment has been out of pocket - This person is not a "street person" - but, a well respected member of the community and local church.
"Encourage your friend to seek Jesus Christ..." - your words brought tears of frustration to my eyes. If you could only understand - seeking Jesus for 18 months - fasting and prayer - this has been done not only by my friend but all the family as well. By prayer warriors at the church. The day we realized that suicide was just around the corner because there was no miraculous healing, was the day we found a CHRISTIAN - BORN AGAIN doctor who could help. Meds are closely monitored by the doctor and the basis for the counseling at each visit is scripture based.
All I ask - is please don't judge Christians who face these issues. That only compounds their problems.
My wifes pharmacy is right next to a hospital so she gets a ton of psych patients a day. These drugs ARE incredibly strong but most of her patients need them. And need them bad. At least 2-3 times a week, the cops are called to remove someone who starts raging in line.
Evang.Benincasa
09-12-2013, 11:42 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDlH9sV0lHU
Why? Why saddle someone with the least, instead of giving them the hope that they can break free?
Because in your intention to help them break free, you saddle them with more weight. You are doing the opposite of what they need. You THINK you are encouraging them to stay a victim if you validate their depression but you are making them a victim, sadly.
You are talking about bipolar, that is what my wife suffered with her entire life. She had a really bad situation which had her go to a UPCI church which was pastored by Brother Wayne Rooks, and Brother Bobby Stewart. When she received the Holy Ghost with evidence of speaking in other tongues she was healed and never had another episode. Never, we have two beautiful girls and my wife has been through a lot since she as (an evangelist's wife) has been in the church, but NEVER has had an episode with the issues of bipolar. I will be praying for your friend, keep praying with him, and telling him he can do it through the power of Jesus Christ.
So your wife was healed so everyone who isn't is wrong with God?
If she did complain about "feeling down" or depression, would you listen? Or slap her on the forehead with a loud "In JESUS name!" rebuke and shove her on her merry way? MANY won't admit to depression because of the latter response from people they know.
Very true.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDlH9sV0lHU
We all know that the pharma company is making a killing with drugs. That doesn't mean depression doesn't exist.
Aquila
09-13-2013, 07:13 AM
I can't believe we still have Christian elders who don't believe in clinical depression or PTSD...
I was in the Army for 8 years and I know this stuff is real. No wonder 22 vets shoot themselves every day... those commissioned to carry a message of healing are denying the very existence of the conditions that need to be healed.
Absolutely pathetic.
llambert
09-13-2013, 07:41 AM
This is all very interesting. I want to encourage us to agree to disagree AGREEABLY since this forum is public and whether we want to admit it or not, every single word we type here is a witnessing tool (even if we delete our post).
Has anyone googled "apostolic friends forum"? What comes up in the search box as an anticipated query is "apostolic friends forum a wrecked church" and "apostolic friends forum terry black"
Truth is, that Satan is the prince of the power of the air, so it's good for fellowship to post on here and share our thoughts, but ultimately we need to be intimate in prayer with Christ.
Evang.Benincasa
09-13-2013, 08:38 AM
I can't believe we still have Christian elders who don't believe in clinical depression or PTSD...
I was in the Army for 8 years and I know this stuff is real. No wonder 22 vets shoot themselves every day... those commissioned to carry a message of healing are denying the very existence of the conditions that need to be healed.
Absolutely pathetic.
So are you saying that Jesus cannot heal someone who is depressed?
Someone with bipolar?
I have read posts of those who say yes it is possible that Jesus can heal these issues....but?
I'll just stay on the side of prayer, and committing to give people hope, rather than Sigmund Freud and Paroxetine. :)
Evang.Benincasa
09-13-2013, 08:44 AM
We all know that the pharma company is making a killing with drugs. That doesn't mean depression doesn't exist.
So you discounted the whole documentary, and just want to focus on the money issue? Instead of its main point which is powerful drugs which take normal people and drives them to commit suicide?
Hey, there are none so blind as those who will not see.
;)
So you discounted the whole documentary, and just want to focus on the money issue? Instead of its main point which is powerful drugs which take normal people and drives them to commit suicide?
Hey, there are none so blind as those who will not see.
;)
No, I have watched many documentaries on pharmaceuticals and I agree very much that the money overrides common sense in many situations.
We are saying God CAN heal depression and mental illness. Are you saying he can't NOT heal it? Meaning, if God so chooses someone can't love Him and live for Him AND be mentally ill? That's what I see you as saying. Either you love God AND are healed or, you just plain don't love God.
Evang.Benincasa
09-13-2013, 09:28 AM
If she did complain about "feeling down" or depression, would you listen? Or slap her on the forehead with a loud "In JESUS name!" rebuke and shove her on her merry way? MANY won't admit to depression because of the latter response from people they know.
Very true.
So your wife was healed so everyone who isn't is wrong with God?
The problem is sister, you don't want to believe that my wife (or anyone else for that matter) has been healed of these issues by the power of the Holy Ghost. You would rather believe that some jerk is blowing off his wife's issues and allowing her to hide in the closet while the jerk is shouting and running pews.
PTSD from your church experience? Do you ever consider that the church might have PTSD from experiencing you? Not for anything, but ever since the days of Emma, you have showed vehement disdain for anything that is remotely close to what you have left behind. Hey, your bitter, it doesn't make you a bad person, it just makes you a mad person. Jesus loves you very much, and wants only the best for you. Whatever happened to you in your past is gone, but sadly not forgotten, also seemingly not forgiven. That is sad, but is it my fault? You claim PTSD from your church experience? Well, if that was true it means that anything remotely close to your bad experience triggers a reaction, a bad reaction, and you act out. So, when you see a post that reminds you of your past in Pentecost you go postal, you want to hurt others? Sister, all I am saying is that healing these issues are not only possible but they are possible for everyone outside of taking strong powerful deadly medications. It is hope, most of the individuals who I know that are on strong meds are on at least 9 different meds. It isn't healthy for them. So, what do you tell them? Keep going to the headshrinker and allow him to keep changing your medication, or adding new ones? There has to be a way out of all that insanity, but it seems that you refuse to believe that?
Hey, Jesus said, as YOUR faith be it unto you?
The problem is sister, you don't want to believe that my wife (or anyone else for that matter) has been healed of these issues by the power of the Holy Ghost. You would rather believe that some jerk is blowing off his wife's issues and allowing her to hide in the closet while the jerk is shouting and running pews.
Wow, is that ever putting words in my mouth! If your wife was healed, she was healed. As a matter of fact, I was largely healed from depression and not by medication.
PTSD from your church experience? Do you ever consider that the church might have PTSD from experiencing you? Not for anything, but ever since the days of Emma, you have showed vehement disdain for anything that is remotely close to what you have left behind. Hey, your bitter, it doesn't make you a bad person, it just makes you a mad person. Jesus loves you very much, and wants only the best for you. Whatever happened to you in your past is gone, but sadly not forgotten, also seemingly not forgiven. That is sad, but is it my fault? You claim PTSD from your church experience? Well, if that was true it means that anything remotely close to your bad experience triggers a reaction, a bad reaction, and you act out. So, when you see a post that reminds you of your past in Pentecost you go postal, you want to hurt others? Sister, all I am saying is that healing these issues are not only possible but they are possible for everyone outside of taking strong powerful deadly medications. It is hope, most of the individuals who I know that are on strong meds are on at least 9 different meds. It isn't healthy for them. So, what do you tell them? Keep going to the headshrinker and allow him to keep changing your medication, or adding new ones? There has to be a way out of all that insanity, but it seems that you refuse to believe that?
Wow, reading this is triggering the PTSD right now as we speak. Because it is full of false accusation and misunderstanding. So, I pretty much just walk away, because I can't change anybody but myself.
Hey, Jesus said, as YOUR faith be it unto you?
I believe this, and the Rx from God is.....just walk away.
Evang.Benincasa
09-13-2013, 09:36 AM
No, I have watched many documentaries on pharmaceuticals and I agree very much that the money overrides common sense in many situations.
We are saying God CAN heal depression and mental illness. Are you saying he can't NOT heal it? Meaning, if God so chooses someone can't love Him and live for Him AND be mentally ill? That's what I see you as saying. Either you love God AND are healed or, you just plain don't love God.
Jesus didn't say love was the problem, Jesus tells individuals who healed and did many mighty works in his name to depart from Him because He NEVER knew them. Jesus puts people out of the room who were faithless, and couldn't do many miracles in his own home town due to THEIR unbelief. Faith is a powerful thing, belief can move a whole lot more than mountains. Jesus put the unbeliever out of the room, therefore He set the precedence not me.
I know a lot of people who love God but are faithless, doesn't make them bad people, but they just don't have the faith. You encourage them to go forward and continue to see the smallest miracles, so they would some day see the bigger ones. :)
Aquila
09-13-2013, 09:37 AM
This is all very interesting. I want to encourage us to agree to disagree AGREEABLY since this forum is public and whether we want to admit it or not, every single word we type here is a witnessing tool (even if we delete our post).
Has anyone googled "apostolic friends forum"? What comes up in the search box as an anticipated query is "apostolic friends forum a wrecked church" and "apostolic friends forum terry black"
Truth is, that Satan is the prince of the power of the air, so it's good for fellowship to post on here and share our thoughts, but ultimately we need to be intimate in prayer with Christ.
Look... No one asked you to come in here and be all spiritual and make sense.... Got it??? :karate:
:heeheehee
Evang.Benincasa
09-13-2013, 09:39 AM
Wow, is that ever putting words in my mouth! If your wife was healed, she was healed. As a matter of fact, I was largely healed from depression and not by medication.
Wow, reading this is triggering the PTSD right now as we speak. Because it is full of false accusation and misunderstanding. So, I pretty much just walk away, because I can't change anybody but myself.
I believe this, and the Rx from God is.....just walk away.
Sorry, I'm truly sorry, but posting with you over the years gave me this conclusion. So, you were healed of being depressed through the Holy Ghost, then why isn't that accessible to all others?
Aquila
09-13-2013, 09:39 AM
So are you saying that Jesus cannot heal someone who is depressed?
Someone with bipolar?
I have read posts of those who say yes it is possible that Jesus can heal these issues....but?
I'll just stay on the side of prayer, and committing to give people hope, rather than Sigmund Freud and Paroxetine. :)
Yes, I believe that Jesus can heal anything. However, He doesn't always choose to. Sometimes, we pray for our infirmities to be healed... and God doesn't take them away. Sometimes, as Paul described, His strength is made perfect in our weakness.
Evang.Benincasa
09-13-2013, 09:42 AM
Yes, I believe that Jesus can heal anything. However, He doesn't always choose to. Sometimes, we pray for our infirmities to be healed... and God doesn't take them away. Sometimes, as Paul described, His strength is made perfect in our weakness.
Wait, Jesus tells the blind man that it was the blind man's faith which was going to do the healing? Are we dealing with Christianity of the Bible, or the Fate doctrine of Hinduism?
Aquila
09-13-2013, 09:43 AM
To say that God intends to heal everyone is to misunderstand the purpose of healing in the Bible and to reduce God to a cosmic Santa Clause.
Remember, healing has a divine purpose beyond the health of the individual being prayed for. When the fullness of this reality is grasped healing is seen in it's proper light.
Sorry, I'm truly sorry, but posting with you over the years gave me this conclusion. So, you were healed of being depressed through the Holy Ghost, then why isn't that accessible to all others?
It is. But that doesn't mean I didn't struggle and suffer with it for 10 years AS A CHRISTIAN until that happened. If you had met me during that time, you could have depressed me further and made me feel worse with your "encouraging" words of "faith" which, no disrespect meant, but are simply false accusations to the hearer. You are saying "If you just have faith, you would be healed". But the truth is, that sometimes people have faith and just don't get healed on your timetable. Sometimes people are doing all they can do.
endtimer
09-13-2013, 09:45 AM
So are you saying that Jesus cannot heal someone who is depressed?
Someone with bipolar?
I have read posts of those who say yes it is possible that Jesus can heal these issues....but?
I'll just stay on the side of prayer, and committing to give people hope, rather than Sigmund Freud and Paroxetine. :)
Bro. B, I think I get your point. You believe that depression exists, Christians can "get it" but dont have to live with it and be on meds the rest of their lives. Am I right? If this is your position, I agree. I dont necessarily have a problem with the right meds prescribed on a temp basis but too many settle for them as the fix when we serve a Healer. By His stripes we are healed just the same and just as easily as our sins are blotted out. I think we miss out in a lot of promises of God because we settle for less or have not learned to submit those broken areas and diseases unto God. We learn to repent and let God forgive but fail all too often to let Him heal. Im not saying this to bash godly and ungodly people that struggle with this. Ive been there, been healed of that.
Evang.Benincasa
09-13-2013, 09:46 AM
To say that God intends to heal everyone is to misunderstand the purpose of healing in the Bible and to reduce God to a cosmic Satan Clause.
Remember, healing has a divine purpose beyond the health of the individual being prayed for. When the fullness of this reality is grasped healing is seen in it's proper light.
Whoa, the Satan Clause only heals those who chooses to heal. Like Vishnu dealing with his devotees who must go through hard strenuous meditations in order to appease their god. Brother Chris, Jesus wants us to believe, to have faith, to continue to trust. He heals, everyday He heals.
Aquila
09-13-2013, 09:49 AM
Wait, Jesus tells the blind man that it was the blind man's faith which was going to do the healing? Are we dealing with Christianity of the Bible, or the Fate doctrine of Hinduism?
Apples and oranges Bro. Benincasa.
If the miracles and the distinct moves of God found in the Bible are charted, you will see that they come in waves and seasons. Some theologians have explained them as coming in "bursts". Some bursts of miracles are separated by many decades, yet others are separated by centuries. The most miracle saturated period of time was the during the life of Christ. What is most interesting is that scholars typically note that bursts of healing, miracles, and the raising of the dead normally come in the wake of a prophetic message for a generation... not always upon request. In a very real sense the healings and miracles serve to confirm a message from God... not just to make one feel better. Thus, during every change of dispensational covenant, or during the most powerful prophetic proclamations of Scripture... you'll see an abundance of miracles and healings.
However, if the entire time line of the Bible is examined... bursts of miracles were actually very few and rather targeted.
There's far more on this, I'll have to dig up what resources I have to give you something to examine that's more in depth on this.
Evang.Benincasa
09-13-2013, 09:52 AM
Bro. B, I think I get your point. You believe that depression exists, Christians can "get it" but dont have to live with it and be on meds the rest of their lives. Am I right? If this is your position, I agree. I dont necessarily have a problem with the right meds prescribed on a temp basis but too many settle for them as the fix when we serve a Healer. By His stripes we are healed just the same and just as easily as our sins are blotted out. I think we miss out in a lot of promises of God because we settle for lessor have not learned to submit those broken areas and diseases unto God. We learn to repent and let God forgive but fail all too often to let Him heal. Im not saying this to bash godly and ungodly people that struggle with this. Ive been there, been healed of that.
Yes, if a person gets depressed, He has Jesus Christ to get him or her out of the situation. Some psychiatrists aren't focused on the healing process, because they believe it isn't possible. Also some Christians don't think it is possible outside of Medical field, chemo is used way before prayer, or prayer coupled with chemo. I didn't go for chemo, I didn't go for the colostomy bag, but was healed through the Holy Ghost. My thoughts are if Jesus did all these things in the Bible, and it happened to others including myself, then why can't people be healed? It isn't His fault, He isn't Vishnu choosing to heal one and kill the other?
I don't think it is a black and white EITHER you get healed OR you don't have faith. Sometimes life is a bit gray and fuzzy.
Evang.Benincasa
09-13-2013, 09:57 AM
Apples and oranges Bro. Benincasa.
If the miracles and the distinct moves of God found in the Bible are charted, you will see that they come in waves and seasons. Some theologians have explained them as coming in "bursts". Some bursts of miracles are separated by many decades, yet others are separated by centuries. The most miracle saturated period of time was the during the life of Christ. What is most interesting is that scholars typically note that bursts of healing, miracles, and the raising of the dead normally come in the wake of a prophetic message for a generation... not always upon request. In a very real sense the healings and miracles serve to confirm a message from God... not just to make one feel better. Thus, during every change of dispensational covenant, or during the most powerful prophetic proclamations of Scripture... you'll see an abundance of miracles and healings.
However, if the entire time line of the Bible is examined... bursts of miracles were actually very few and rather targeted.
There's far more on this, I'll have to dig up what resources I have to give you something to examine that's more in depth on this.
Luke 7:11-17 speaks about the widow woman whose ONLY son had died, and Jesus healed him of death. There was no prophetic message preached prior to this outcome, but a need of a widow of her only support. You need to cool out on theologians I think they're killing your faith. :)
Aquila
09-13-2013, 09:58 AM
Whoa, the Satan Clause only heals those who chooses to heal. Like Vishnu dealing with his devotees who must go through hard strenuous meditations in order to appease their god. Brother Chris, Jesus wants us to believe, to have faith, to continue to trust. He heals, everyday He heals.
You really don't understand what the implications are of what you're saying...
My mother had a very serious heart attack six years ago. I prayed and prayed like I had never prayed before. I had faith. I even testified that my mother would be with us in a week. Then... to my absolute dismay... I had to make the call and finally disconnect my mother from life support because God chose not to heal. I preached her funeral and conducted the internment. I had come to peace with accepting that it wasn't God's will to heal her. Why do religious fundamentalists always have a knack for finding old healed wounds, just to rip them open again?
You have no idea how much your words hurt. You see... you're implying that my mother should have been healed... and that evidently I screwed up or just didn't have the faith. My fault she died.
Thank you for your version of the "good news" there Bro. Benincasa. But honestly, I could have lived without it.
I'm done on this thread. And please... don't talk to me for a while. I'm trying to keep my Christianity about this.
I think I'm going to step away from the computer for a few.
Evang.Benincasa
09-13-2013, 09:58 AM
I don't think it is a black and white EITHER you get healed OR you don't have faith. Sometimes life is a bit gray and fuzzy.
Sister it is about faith. That's what atheists don't understand and that is why the Rabbis see Jesus as a magician. Sadly most Christians see Jesus as a magician. Your faith has made you whole?
Aquila
09-13-2013, 10:01 AM
Luke 7:11-17 speaks about the widow woman whose ONLY son had died, and Jesus healed him of death. There was no prophetic message preached prior to this outcome, but a need of a widow of her only support. You need to cool out on theologians I think they're killing your faith. :)
Listen... I'm trying to keep my cool here.
Every miracle that Christ performed was in the wake of His entire message. Every miracle performed validated His message and identity. We also see this with the disciples...
Mark 16:20
And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
This is why we saw a burst of fantastic miracles in the early 1900's during the Pentecostal outpourings. This is also why more miracles and healings are reported on mission fields.
If you can't see this, so be it.
Please don't respond to me.
Thanks.
Rx: Just gotta walk away.
Sweet Pea
09-13-2013, 10:09 AM
EB
God CAN and DOES heal people with mental issues . I know that!!! I'm not doubting your wife's healing; however, I do have a question....
I have seen God miraculously deliver someone from drugs, alcohol and cigarettes. However, have you ever worked with someone - got them to the altar and they had a marvelous experience with God - spoke in tongues and they were changed - with the exception that they still battled one or all of the above addictions mentioned? You saw them, you see the change in other parts of the lives, you heard them speak in a heavenly language. What on earth do YOU tell that person? That they didn't really receive the Holy Ghost?
Evang.Benincasa
09-13-2013, 10:10 AM
You really have no clue do you?
Why, because I don't agree with your rhetoric? :heeheehee
My mother had a very serious heart attack six years ago. I prayed and prayed like I had never prayed before. I had faith. Then... I had to make the call and finally disconnect my mother from life support because God chose not to heal. I preached her funeral and conducted the internment. I had come to peace with accepting that it wasn't God's will to heal her. Why do you religious fundamentalists always have a knack for finding old healed wounds, just to rip them open again?
Whoa! You prayed. Brother you prayed.
Brother Lazarus couldn't come forth if Lazarus didn't believe that Jesus was the resurrection and the life. Brother those Judeans in the first century had to have faith even if they were dead, therefore they could be raised to eternal life.
You have no idea how much your words hurt. You see... you're implying that my mother should have been healed... and that evidently I screwed up or just didn't have the faith. My fault she died.
Once a Guru told me this after I said I would pray for him due to his illness, and he replied, "what if I'm praying against your prayers?" he had a point. Not saying that your mother was praying against your prayers, but your prayers alone don't raise, don't heal, those who won't believe. Not saying any of these things about your mother and pretty much reluctant to do so, because I don't know her, you do. So, Jesus said it was according to our faith. He said it, if you would like to talmud around His words feel free.
Thank you for your version of the "good news" there Bro. Benincasa.
Excuse me?
I'm done on this thread. And please... don't talk to me for a while. I'm trying to keep my Christianity about this.
I think I'm going to step away from the computer for a few.
Ok.
Evang.Benincasa
09-13-2013, 10:15 AM
EB
God CAN and DOES heal people with mental issues . I know that!!! I'm not doubting your wife's healing; however, I do have a question....
I have seen God miraculously deliver someone from drugs, alcohol and cigarettes. However, have you ever worked with someone - got them to the altar and they had a marvelous experience with God - spoke in tongues and they were changed - with the exception that they still battled one or all of the above addictions mentioned? You saw them, you see the change in other parts of the lives, you heard them speak in a heavenly language. What on earth do YOU tell that person? That they didn't really receive the Holy Ghost?
Please please, read my posts carefully, I can speak for myself, I will tell you my experience. I haven't wanted to smoke a cigarette since I was filled with the Holy Ghost. Now, I know others who aren't Christians or Apostolic Pentecostals and they have never touched a cigarette or drank a drink.
No tongues, no altar, just making a decision not to do it anymore.
But, what does your question have to do with what we were discussing?
Sweet Pea
09-13-2013, 10:33 AM
EB
It has a lot to do with it. You indicated that you didn't think someone who was full of the Holy Ghost and a real Christian would battle depression, anxiety, etc. That it was all in their heads and they could get over it.
If someone can't "get over" their addiction immediately do you indicate that they didn't really receive the Holy Ghost? Yes, I've known people who quit with no experience with God - I've seen people miraculously delivered and I've seen people struggle and be delivered after a long period of time ....
I guess that we are going to go round and round the merry-go-round - I do believe that God can and does heal mental issues, cancer, asthma, the common cold, MS, diabetes, high blood pressure, heart issues, etc etc - but the bottom line is that he doesn't always heal. Why? I don't know, but don't tell me it is a lack of faith - I just don't buy that. But just as I wouldn't deny medication to any of those with what we consider a "medical / physical" problem, I cannot deny those who need assistance from professionals for their "physical / mental" issues.
Your mind is set - my mind is set - so there is no need for me to be in this conversation any more.
God bless you, EB and the ministry that you are doing. May He give you wisdom and direction for each situation / person you face. (and I mean this sincerely!)
For those who may be interested, when I was in the throes of deep depression, I heard a story. It was about a person in a deep hole. This person prayed for God to help them and whenever he prayed, someone from above would throw a pile of dirt on him. He would get mad and stomp his feet sometimes feeling God wasn't helping at all. He heard the criticism of those who would look down and make fun. Those who made fun often threw more dirt. After years of this, one day, he realized he was able to step out of the hole, using the very dirt thrown upon him to step out.
Faith doesn't mean you will be able to take a flying leap from 50 ft down out of a hole. It just means that you keep on stamping your feet day after day.
One day, I stepped out.:yahoo
llambert
09-13-2013, 10:54 AM
EB
God CAN and DOES heal people with mental issues . I know that!!! I'm not doubting your wife's healing; however, I do have a question....
I have seen God miraculously deliver someone from drugs, alcohol and cigarettes. However, have you ever worked with someone - got them to the altar and they had a marvelous experience with God - spoke in tongues and they were changed - with the exception that they still battled one or all of the above addictions mentioned? You saw them, you see the change in other parts of the lives, you heard them speak in a heavenly language. What on earth do YOU tell that person? That they didn't really receive the Holy Ghost?
I know a bunch of people who got the real Holy Spirit baptism and still had addictions and manifest mental health issues.
Everyone isn't willing or able to be delivered of everything right away. I'm not a big fan of psychotropic drugs, but I've never had any severe mental or emotional health issues that have impaired my ability to function, so I don't want to type anything on here that's not going to be edifying.
As for cigarettes:
- practically every person I know who battled smoking and got delivered from it had at some level a deep rooted self-hatred or some sort of vengeance/wanting to get back at someone for something that was done to them. Usually it was subconscious (its not that they said, "Oh, I was abused, so I'm going to go out and smoke).
- people have told me that sucking on the cigarette has a soothing effect (similar to thumb sucking). Plus all the chemicals in the cigarettes are addictive to the brain.
-from what I've seen, this cigarette addiction, its root causes and brain chemistry disorientation are very similar to addiction to high sugar foods, foods with heavy chemical preservatives, alcohol, street drugs and pornography. Different substance, but the root causes and the effects to me are generally all the same.
What do you say to them? Sometimes its best to say nothing at first. Just show up and show that the Lord Jesus Christ is willing to listen through you.
Job's 3 friends sat with him a whole 7 days and 7 nights and didn't say a word. I'd say we should do a step more, though (be prayerful while we're showing up- watch and pray, learn from history and speak when God moves us to.
Job's 3 friends ultimately didn't get it, and essentially ignored his pain and just told him to repent without giving a proper answer for any of Job's questions about his unexplained sufferings.
Evang.Benincasa
09-13-2013, 11:00 AM
For those who may be interested, when I was in the throes of deep depression, I heard a story. It was about a person in a deep hole. This person prayed for God to help them and whenever he prayed, someone from above would throw a pile of dirt on him. He would get mad and stomp his feet sometimes feeling God wasn't helping at all. He heard the criticism of those who would look down and make fun. Those who made fun often threw more dirt. After years of this, one day, he realized he was able to step out of the hole, using the very dirt thrown upon him to step out.
Faith doesn't mean you will be able to take a flying leap from 50 ft down out of a hole. It just means that you keep on stamping your feet day after day.
One day, I stepped out.:yahoo
One day you stepped out?
Praise Jesus!
Now I'm going to ask you a question, not accusing you, do you think I am throwing dirt?
Evang.Benincasa
09-13-2013, 11:01 AM
I know a bunch of people who got the real Holy Spirit baptism and still had addictions and manifest mental health issues.
Everyone isn't willing or able to be delivered of everything right away. I'm not a big fan of psychotropic drugs, but I've never had any severe mental or emotional health issues that have impaired my ability to function, so I don't want to type anything on here that's not going to be edifying.
As for cigarettes:
- practically every person I know who battled smoking and got delivered from it had at some level a deep rooted self-hatred or some sort of vengeance/wanting to get back at someone for something that was done to them. Usually it was subconscious (its not that they said, "Oh, I was abused, so I'm going to go out and smoke).
- people have told me that sucking on the cigarette has a soothing effect (similar to thumb sucking). Plus all the chemicals in the cigarettes are addictive to the brain.
-from what I've seen, this cigarette addiction, its root causes and brain chemistry disorientation are very similar to addiction to high sugar foods, foods with heavy chemical preservatives, alcohol, street drugs and pornography. Different substance, but the root causes and the effects to me are generally all the same.
What do you say to them? Sometimes its best to say nothing at first. Just show up and show that the Lord Jesus Christ is willing to listen through you.
Job's 3 friends sat with him a whole 7 days and 7 nights and didn't say a word. I'd say we should do a step more, though (be prayerful while we're showing up- watch and pray, learn from history and speak when God moves us to.
Job's 3 friends ultimately didn't get it, and essentially ignored his pain and just told him to repent without giving a proper answer for any of Job's questions about his unexplained sufferings.
Job's friends were accusing Job of something he wasn't guilty of doing.
Job had faith yes?
Evang.Benincasa
09-13-2013, 11:02 AM
God bless you, EB and the ministry that you are doing. May He give you wisdom and direction for each situation / person you face. (and I mean this sincerely!)
Thank you.
One day you stepped out?
Praise Jesus!
Now I'm going to ask you a question, not accusing you, do you think I am throwing dirt?
Yep.
Evang.Benincasa
09-13-2013, 11:06 AM
You know what I'm reading? I am reading a lot of God doesn't always heal, but my question is, why do you all believe that he doesn't always heal?
Is it His fault?
Is it your fault?
Is it just your fate?
Any answers? :highfive
Evang.Benincasa
09-13-2013, 11:07 AM
Yep.
Well, I'm not.
Jesus did say as YOUR faith be it unto you?
Aquila
09-13-2013, 11:49 AM
I stepped away to pray and gather my thoughts. And I did something that I don’t do that often, I prayed for “a Word”. However, not just a Word to comfort and strengthen me, but a Word that I could share with others. And I received it. The power of God came down on me and several things were impressed upon my heart and I want to share them here.
As I prayed the Spirit brought this passage to my mind…
1 And it came to pass, when Jesus had made an end of commanding his twelve disciples, he departed thence to teach and to preach in their cities. 2 Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples, 3 And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another? 4 Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see: 5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them. 6 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me. ~ Matthew 11:1-6
This passage is an enigma for some. Many don’t realize what is happening here. We see Jesus and the disciples out preaching the Gospel. While they are doing this, John (who is languishing in prison) sends two disciples to ask Jesus a question. The question was, “Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?” This question is very troubling. If anyone knew who Jesus was, it would have been John the Baptist. John stood in the waters of the Jordan and baptized Jesus, and when he did John heard the voice from Heaven declaring that Jesus was the Son of God in whom the Father was well pleased. John saw the Spirit descend upon Jesus as a dove, confirming the anointing and Messianic mission that Jesus was to perform. Why was John expressing doubt???
It’s easy to understand really. You see John was in prison and facing a death sentence for preaching the truth… and it wasn’t looking good. No doubt John had believed that Jesus the Messiah would send an earthquake to crack the prison open and an angel to escort him home. However, with the scheduled execution near… there had been no earthquake. No angel awakening John in the night to walk him home. This feeling of being abandoned by God no doubt left John disillusioned and frustrated in his faith. When the messengers return, they bring a message from Jesus. Christ had answered John’s question by saying,
“The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them. 6 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.”
The words are powerful and revealing. While John languishes in prison Jesus joyously expressed to the messengers that many are receiving healing and deliverance. The blind are receiving their sight, the lame are walking, lepers are being cleansed, the deaf hear, and the dead are raised to life! And the poor… the Gospel is being preached unto them. However, in all of this powerful and positive testimony, nowhere does Jesus promise John deliverance. Instead, the words of Jesus seem to break from the joyous testimony to say, “Blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.” When John heard these words, I believe he understood the implications and for a moment his heart stopped. Jesus was saying,
“John, you know who I am. John, mighty miracles and deliverances are breaking out among the people as I demonstrate my power. Yes, they are being healed, delivered, and encouraged. But John, hold fast to your faith. Because it saddens me to have to tell you this. I’m not sending an earthquake. I’m not sending an angel for you. John, I know you’ve prayed to be delivered on account of your faithfulness… but John… the answer is,‘No.’ John, you’ll be blessed if you can hold fast to your faith and accept my will for you. You’ll be blessed if… you are not offended by what I’m going to do with your life.”
John felt the sting of Jesus saying, “No, John. While I am delivering others… I’m choosing not to deliver you. Hold fast and do not be offended at this. I know what I’m doing.”
I am also reminded of Paul and his prayers to be set free from his “thorn in the flesh”. This thorn in the flesh was a messenger of Satan that challenged Paul significantly. Many believe that it might have been an eye disease. Or perhaps some other disability incurred as a result of the beatings he had taken for preaching the Gospel. Many have postulated that perhaps it was a spirit or infirmity that tempted Paul to sin against God. Others have said that perhaps it was a discouraging spirit reminding Paul how so many slandered his name and were refusing to hear the Gospel entrusted to him. The truth is… we don’t know what it was. It may have been one of these things or perhaps a combination of all of these things. Nevertheless we know that Paul tells us that he prayed three times to be set free… to be delivered… to be healed. And God’s answer was…
“7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. 8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. 9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong. ~ II Corinthians 12:7-10
God’s answer to Paul’s prayers were, “No Paul, I’m not going to deliver you from this affliction. Because through this, I will keep you humble. And you shall see how my power is made perfect in your weakness.”
Perhaps you’re in the prison of disease, depression, bipolar disorder, PTSD, or some other infirmity. Perhaps you’re in the prison of some situation or circumstance that you can’t change. Maybe someone you dearly love is facing any of these things and you've been praying and believing and you're not seeing God's hand move in their circumstance. You see so many around you being delivered… yet your prayers have gone unanswered for weeks, months, or even years. Perhaps as a result of this…you, like John, are wondering… “Is this Jesus and His delivering power for real? Why isn’t God setting me free???”
Please note, Paul only prayed three times and then committed the situation to the Lord. Release yourself from the notion that you need to “build up enough faith”. Some are telling you that you just don’t have enough faith. That isn’t true. It only takes a little faith to receive a miracle. Faith the size of a mustard seed, according to Jesus. In fact, I can prove to you that you have the faith. How? If you don’t know who Jesus is or you don’t believe He has the power to deliver… then why are you so discouraged and confused??? Clearly, your discouragement, confusion, and disillusionment are signs that you do in fact know beyond a doubt who He is… and you do know beyond a doubt that He can deliver you! If you didn’t have this faith beyond a doubt… you’d not feel so discouraged or disillusioned! So stop believing people who say that you simply don’t have the faith. Instead… put your faith and trust in God. Do not allow yourself to become offended in Him when He says “Not now.”… or… “No. I have a better plan.”
Blessed are you if you are not offended at what God is doing in your life or the life of someone you love.
Aquila
09-13-2013, 11:51 AM
For those who may be interested, when I was in the throes of deep depression, I heard a story. It was about a person in a deep hole. This person prayed for God to help them and whenever he prayed, someone from above would throw a pile of dirt on him. He would get mad and stomp his feet sometimes feeling God wasn't helping at all. He heard the criticism of those who would look down and make fun. Those who made fun often threw more dirt. After years of this, one day, he realized he was able to step out of the hole, using the very dirt thrown upon him to step out.
Faith doesn't mean you will be able to take a flying leap from 50 ft down out of a hole. It just means that you keep on stamping your feet day after day.
One day, I stepped out.:yahoo
:thumbsup
Aquila
09-13-2013, 11:58 AM
God can deliver and heal. And it doesn't take goosebumps, Pentecostal "bang clang" music, or jumping, clapping, running, or anything else. As a result of prayer, it can settle on you as you're sleeping. You can wake up one day and discover to your dismay... that you're healed. You're delivered.
However, at the same time... do not be offended at God should God have a better plan.
I prayed for my mother's healing and to my dismay I had to let her go. Yet, while preaching her funeral... I looked out over the crowd... and I saw nearly my entire family sitting on pews feeling the power of God. It's been years now... and nearly half of them are now in different churches serving God in accordance to their conscience. Before, none of them were in any church.
Sometimes... God says no to a certain prayer... so that He can say yes to other prayers.
Aquila
09-13-2013, 12:00 PM
And if you're suffering from some infirmity, sickness, disease, or condition and God hasn't delivered yet... just give it to Him and move forward in your faith and serve Him. He will demonstrate how His strength is made perfect in your weakness. Through you, God can demonstrate how He can make people whole... through a broken vessel.
n david
09-13-2013, 12:47 PM
I stepped away to pray and gather my thoughts. And I did something that I don’t do that often, I prayed for “a Word”. However, not just a Word to comfort and strengthen me, but a Word that I could share with others. And I received it. The power of God came down on me and several things were impressed upon my heart and I want to share them here.
As I prayed the Spirit brought this passage to my mind…
1 And it came to pass, when Jesus had made an end of commanding his twelve disciples, he departed thence to teach and to preach in their cities. 2 Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples, 3 And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another? 4 Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see: 5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them. 6 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me. ~ Matthew 11:1-6
This passage is an enigma for some. Many don’t realize what is happening here. We see Jesus and the disciples out preaching the Gospel. While they are doing this, John (who is languishing in prison) sends two disciples to ask Jesus a question. The question was, “Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?” This question is very troubling. If anyone knew who Jesus was, it would have been John the Baptist. John stood in the waters of the Jordan and baptized Jesus, and when he did John heard the voice from Heaven declaring that Jesus was the Son of God in whom the Father was well pleased. John saw the Spirit descend upon Jesus as a dove, confirming the anointing and Messianic mission that Jesus was to perform. Why was John expressing doubt???
It’s easy to understand really. You see John was in prison and facing a death sentence for preaching the truth… and it wasn’t looking good. No doubt John had believed that Jesus the Messiah would send an earthquake to crack the prison open and an angel to escort him home. However, with the scheduled execution near… there had been no earthquake. No angel awakening John in the night to walk him home. This feeling of being abandoned by God no doubt left John disillusioned and frustrated in his faith. When the messengers return, they bring a message from Jesus. Christ had answered John’s question by saying,
“The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them. 6 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.”
The words are powerful and revealing. While John languishes in prison Jesus joyously expressed to the messengers that many are receiving healing and deliverance. The blind are receiving their sight, the lame are walking, lepers are being cleansed, the deaf hear, and the dead are raised to life! And the poor… the Gospel is being preached unto them. However, in all of this powerful and positive testimony, nowhere does Jesus promise John deliverance. Instead, the words of Jesus seem to break from the joyous testimony to say, “Blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.” When John heard these words, I believe he understood the implications and for a moment his heart stopped. Jesus was saying,
“John, you know who I am. John, mighty miracles and deliverances are breaking out among the people as I demonstrate my power. Yes, they are being healed, delivered, and encouraged. But John, hold fast to your faith. Because it saddens me to have to tell you this. I’m not sending an earthquake. I’m not sending an angel for you. John, I know you’ve prayed to be delivered on account of your faithfulness… but John… the answer is,‘No.’ John, you’ll be blessed if you can hold fast to your faith and accept my will for you. You’ll be blessed if… you are not offended by what I’m going to do with your life.”
John felt the sting of Jesus saying, “No, John. While I am delivering others… I’m choosing not to deliver you. Hold fast and do not be offended at this. I know what I’m doing.”
I am also reminded of Paul and his prayers to be set free from his “thorn in the flesh”. This thorn in the flesh was a messenger of Satan that challenged Paul significantly. Many believe that it might have been an eye disease. Or perhaps some other disability incurred as a result of the beatings he had taken for preaching the Gospel. Many have postulated that perhaps it was a spirit or infirmity that tempted Paul to sin against God. Others have said that perhaps it was a discouraging spirit reminding Paul how so many slandered his name and were refusing to hear the Gospel entrusted to him. The truth is… we don’t know what it was. It may have been one of these things or perhaps a combination of all of these things. Nevertheless we know that Paul tells us that he prayed three times to be set free… to be delivered… to be healed. And God’s answer was…
“7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. 8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. 9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong. ~ II Corinthians 12:7-10
God’s answer to Paul’s prayers were, “No Paul, I’m not going to deliver you from this affliction. Because through this, I will keep you humble. And you shall see how my power is made perfect in your weakness.”
Perhaps you’re in the prison of disease, depression, bipolar disorder, PTSD, or some other infirmity. Perhaps you’re in the prison of some situation or circumstance that you can’t change. Maybe someone you dearly love is facing any of these things and you've been praying and believing and you're not seeing God's hand move in their circumstance. You see so many around you being delivered… yet your prayers have gone unanswered for weeks, months, or even years. Perhaps as a result of this…you, like John, are wondering… “Is this Jesus and His delivering power for real? Why isn’t God setting me free???”
Please note, Paul only prayed three times and then committed the situation to the Lord. Release yourself from the notion that you need to “build up enough faith”. Some are telling you that you just don’t have enough faith. That isn’t true. It only takes a little faith to receive a miracle. Faith the size of a mustard seed, according to Jesus. In fact, I can prove to you that you have the faith. How? If you don’t know who Jesus is or you don’t believe He has the power to deliver… then why are you so discouraged and confused??? Clearly, your discouragement, confusion, and disillusionment are signs that you do in fact know beyond a doubt who He is… and you do know beyond a doubt that He can deliver you! If you didn’t have this faith beyond a doubt… you’d not feel so discouraged or disillusioned! So stop believing people who say that you simply don’t have the faith. Instead… put your faith and trust in God. Do not allow yourself to become offended in Him when He says “Not now.”… or… “No. I have a better plan.”
Blessed are you if you are not offended at what God is doing in your life or the life of someone you love.
:thumbsup
MarieA27
09-13-2013, 01:19 PM
And if you're suffering from some infirmity, sickness, disease, or condition and God hasn't delivered yet... just give it to Him and move forward in your faith and serve Him. He will demonstrate how His strength is made perfect in your weakness. Through you, God can demonstrate how He can make people whole... through a broken vessel.
I'm trying to stay away from this thread as I see it's heated enough as it is, but I just wanted to comment, as I have a problem this above statement. But the problem that I have with this above statement is that it seems like you're saying, (without trying to say it), if you're praying for a certain length of time for healing and if it doesn't come about in that time, then you're to give it to God (give up, be disheartened, stop believing that God will heal and deliver you) and go about your way.
In my experience I know that God doesn't heal you from everything, and He has his reasons for not doing so. When God heals and delivers, it's done unto the glory of Him, to show forth His mighty acts, to show forth his works, and He wants you to have faith, to believe in Him, so he can work through you. From myself, and dealing with others, there are times when you're healed right away, others it takes a little longer, and some times it takes years. There are people who have been suffering with an infirmity for 20+ years before God delivered.
What I feel that that scripture means, regarding Paul's thorn, I don't see that he just gave up. He prayed until God let him know that He wasn't going to deliver him, before he was able to move on. I know that a lot of people just pray, and pray fervently for a while, then one month pass, then 6 months, then a year, then farther yet, then they see it as God doesn't will to deliver them, then they just settle into whatever infirmities that they are contending with, oftentimes seeking help from other alternatives then God.
In my experience also, God usually has a set, appointed time, whether it'll be a quick deliverance or a longer one, and He's oftentimes testing us, waiting and seeing if we'll be faithful, and continue to believe and hold onto Him through this.
I hope that this doesn't sound like I'm berating anyone for not having faith in God, because I'm not trying to do that at all, and I hate it when people do that, as I know that everyone are at different places in God, and that He deals with everyone differently. I just didn't like that which sounded like "give up, God's not going to deliver through this, and you deal with it another way"
Aquila
09-13-2013, 01:29 PM
I'm trying to stay away from this thread as I see it's heated enough as it is, but I just wanted to comment, as I have a problem this above statement. But the problem that I have with this above statement is that it seems like you're saying, (without trying to say it), if you're praying for a certain length of time for healing and if it doesn't come about in that time, then you're to give it to God (give up, be disheartened, stop believing that God will heal and deliver you) and go about your way.
In my experience I know that God doesn't heal you from everything, and He has his reasons for not doing so. When God heals and delivers, it's done unto the glory of Him, to show forth His mighty acts, to show forth his works, and He wants you to have faith, to believe in Him, so he can work through you. From myself, and dealing with others, there are times when you're healed right away, others it takes a little longer, and some times it takes years. There are people who have been suffering with an infirmity for 20+ years before God delivered.
What I feel that that scripture means, regarding Paul's thorn, I don't see that he just gave up. He prayed until God let him know that He wasn't going to deliver him, before he was able to move on. I know that a lot of people just pray, and pray fervently for a while, then one month pass, then 6 months, then a year, then farther yet, then they see it as God doesn't will to deliver them, then they just settle into whatever infirmities that they are contending with, oftentimes seeking help from other alternatives then God.
In my experience also, God usually has a set, appointed time, whether it'll be a quick deliverance or a longer one, and He's oftentimes testing us, waiting and seeing if we'll be faithful, and continue to believe and hold onto Him through this.
I hope that this doesn't sound like I'm berating anyone for not having faith in God, because I'm not trying to do that at all, and I hate it when people do that, as I know that everyone are at different places in God, and that He deals with everyone differently. I just didn't like that which sounded like "give up, God's not going to deliver through this, and you deal with it another way"
My point was that after a certain time, simply stop begging. Don't be disheartened or give up. Just commit it to God in His timing. Trust that if it doesn't come immediately... or in this life... God has a purpose for the affliction and that God can still use you.
I hope that helps to clarify.
Evang.Benincasa
09-13-2013, 03:48 PM
“John, you know who I am. John, mighty miracles and deliverances are breaking out among the people as I demonstrate my power. Yes, they are being healed, delivered, and encouraged. But John, hold fast to your faith. Because it saddens me to have to tell you this. I’m not sending an earthquake. I’m not sending an angel for you. John, I know you’ve prayed to be delivered on account of your faithfulness… but John… the answer is,‘No.’ John, you’ll be blessed if you can hold fast to your faith and accept my will for you. You’ll be blessed if… you are not offended by what I’m going to do with your life.”
Brother Chris, I thought you would throw a little Talmudic highlights and some waxing philosophically about all this. But John had already told the Judean leadership that he was decreasing and Jesus would increase, I really don't know why you would choose John's martyrdom to prove a point about Jesus being able to deliverer someone from being depressed or having extremes highs and lows "bipolar." Jesus actually tells John that the Gospel was healings and preaching the good news to the low level of society. Yet, you sort of ditch that and go off on a soliloquising? I have always said this, people will actually make the word of God of none effect for the sole reason to prove that they themselves are right and protect some thought a spirit has given them.
Evang.Benincasa
09-13-2013, 03:57 PM
I am also reminded of Paul and his prayers to be set free from his “thorn in the flesh”. This thorn in the flesh was a messenger of Satan that challenged Paul significantly. Many believe that it might have been an eye disease. Or perhaps some other disability incurred as a result of the beatings he had taken for preaching the Gospel. Many have postulated that perhaps it was a spirit or infirmity that tempted Paul to sin against God. Others have said that perhaps it was a discouraging spirit reminding Paul how so many slandered his name and were refusing to hear the Gospel entrusted to him. The truth is… we don’t know what it was. It may have been one of these things or perhaps a combination of all of these things. Nevertheless we know that Paul tells us that he prayed three times to be set free… to be delivered… to be healed. And God’s answer was…
“7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. 8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. 9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong. ~ II Corinthians 12:7-10
Brother Chris, if you read what Paul is talking about in the 11th chapter he explains who the messenger of Satan was, it was those were tearing up his churches in Asia Minor. Paul goes into explaining that there were false apostles who were seeking occasion among his churches, and that he shows how since Satan transforms himself into an angel of illumination, then it is easy for his ministers to transform themselves into ministers of righteousness.
Nothing eluding to Paul being a pygmy with a club foot, withered hand, toothless, near sighted, or having a bad case of acne. Allow the scripture to tell its own story.
Evang.Benincasa
09-13-2013, 04:08 PM
Perhaps you’re in the prison of disease, depression, bipolar disorder, PTSD, or some other infirmity. Perhaps you’re in the prison of some situation or circumstance that you can’t change. Maybe someone you dearly love is facing any of these things and you've been praying and believing and you're not seeing God's hand move in their circumstance. You see so many around you being delivered… yet your prayers have gone unanswered for weeks, months, or even years. Perhaps as a result of this…you, like John, are wondering… “Is this Jesus and His delivering power for real? Why isn’t God setting me free???”
Or maybe it is because the individual believes that God should be moving the way HE believes that God should?
It sounds like the Buddhist who says that life is suffering and that through stages you must ascend the suffering. Why does God forgo answering prayers? Because we pray a miss of God's will, but Jesus praying in the garden prayed not His will but thine will be done. We need to stop making excuses for ourselves and trying to make God out like He is a Greek pagan deity, who rolls the dice whether to help the individual or not. Does Jesus want to help us? We are not Buddhists or Hindus who are stuck in a wheel of suffering fate waiting for nirvana. Jesus promises peace to those who want it. That is what I was promised by the Apostolics who came to me, and I received what they promised. In 2nd Corinthians 11 Paul warns of another gospel, another Jesus, and another spirit, and it seems that people always want the other, instead of what God has for us through Jesus Christ. You can be set free, and who the Son makes free is free indeed!
Evang.Benincasa
09-13-2013, 04:25 PM
Please note, Paul only prayed three times and then committed the situation to the Lord. Release yourself from the notion that you need to “build up enough faith”.
Well, Jude was encouraging to those he had written to during the first century A.D. when he said "But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." They were told to εποικοδομουντες which means to build up what they already had. The minister isn't telling them that they have to struggle and play with the hand they are dealt (even though there are times we get a bad hand, we can come out of it). Jude tells the church that they are able to pray in the Holy Ghost which is building upon their faith. Brother Chris, you are telling people that they don't have to seek and pray for the optimum? A need to build their faith through God leading them in the Holy Ghost?
Some are telling you that you just don’t have enough faith. That isn’t true.
Peter sank because he had NO FAITH. Brother Chris, Jesus didn't commend Peter for Peter's lack of faith. As a minister you are to build faith, not to tell people that faith doesn't matter so they struggle like a gasping fish out of water.
It only takes a little faith to receive a miracle. Faith the size of a mustard seed, according to Jesus.
Go read the scripture again, Jesus is telling them IF they had. Brother Chris Jesus isn't telling them microscopic faith was the optimum, or even the goal, but that if they even had that little.
Evang.Benincasa
09-13-2013, 04:27 PM
In fact, I can prove to you that you have the faith. How? If you don’t know who Jesus is or you don’t believe He has the power to deliver… then why are you so discouraged and confused??? Clearly, your discouragement, confusion, and disillusionment are signs that you do in fact know beyond a doubt who He is… and you do know beyond a doubt that He can deliver you! If you didn’t have this faith beyond a doubt… you’d not feel so discouraged or disillusioned! So stop believing people who say that you simply don’t have the faith. Instead… put your faith and trust in God. Do not allow yourself to become offended in Him when He says “Not now.”… or… “No. I have a better plan.”
Blessed are you if you are not offended at what God is doing in your life or the life of someone you love.
Wow, the kiddie pool's water is toxic and your diaper is jammed packed.
I'm sorry, Brother Chris what happened?
Evang.Benincasa
09-13-2013, 04:32 PM
My point was that after a certain time, simply stop begging. Don't be disheartened or give up. Just commit it to God in His timing. Trust that if it doesn't come immediately... or in this life... God has a purpose for the affliction and that God can still use you.
I hope that helps to clarify.
Brother Chris there are those who were healed immediately, and those like Epaphroditus who took some time. Yet, God healed and delivered, I would encourage people to shoot for the best possible target and hit the bull's eye, then telling them that however the dice rolls it rolls, and the hand you are dealt you must live with. That is straight up Hinduism, and Calvinism.
Evang.Benincasa
09-13-2013, 04:34 PM
And if you're suffering from some infirmity, sickness, disease, or condition and God hasn't delivered yet... just give it to Him and move forward in your faith and serve Him. He will demonstrate how His strength is made perfect in your weakness. Through you, God can demonstrate how He can make people whole... through a broken vessel.
I can agree with this. :highfive
Evang.Benincasa
09-13-2013, 04:37 PM
God can deliver and heal. And it doesn't take goosebumps, Pentecostal "bang clang" music, or jumping, clapping, running, or anything else. As a result of prayer, it can settle on you as you're sleeping. You can wake up one day and discover to your dismay... that you're healed. You're delivered.
However, at the same time... do not be offended at God should God have a better plan.
I prayed for my mother's healing and to my dismay I had to let her go. Yet, while preaching her funeral... I looked out over the crowd... and I saw nearly my entire family sitting on pews feeling the power of God. It's been years now... and nearly half of them are now in different churches serving God in accordance to their conscience. Before, none of them were in any church.
Sometimes... God says no to a certain prayer... so that He can say yes to other prayers.
Sorry to hear about your mother, truly sorry.
Are you saying that God's better plan was for you to be able to preach her funeral, and then through the funeral have family members to become ministers in church?
MarieA27
09-13-2013, 04:42 PM
My point was that after a certain time, simply stop begging. Don't be disheartened or give up. Just commit it to God in His timing. Trust that if it doesn't come immediately... or in this life... God has a purpose for the affliction and that God can still use you.
I hope that helps to clarify.
You mean, stop asking God to deliver you, let Him heal you if He wants, don't heal you if He doesn't want to? That...sounds like giving up to me, losing your patience and not truly believing He'll deliver you, like you did in the beginning. And when you lose your patience, you'll end up losing your confidence and then your faith... The bible says that God is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him. Also that He'll avenge His own elect who cry unto Him day and night. You might not pray as earnestly in the latter time of your sickness, as you did in the beginning, but you still keep praying till something is revealed to you one way or the other...
Evang.Benincasa
09-13-2013, 04:47 PM
You mean, stop asking God to deliver you, let Him heal you if He wants, don't heal you if He doesn't want to? That...sounds like giving up to me, losing your patience and not truly believing He'll deliver you, like you did in the beginning. And when you lose your patience, you'll end up losing your confidence and then your faith... The bible says that God is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him. Also that He'll avenge His own elect who cry unto Him day and night. You might not pray as earnestly in the latter time of your sickness, as you did in the beginning, but you still keep praying till something is revealed to you one way or the other...
Thank God Almighty! :highfive
Jermyn Davidson
09-13-2013, 10:25 PM
You mean, stop asking God to deliver you, let Him heal you if He wants, don't heal you if He doesn't want to? That...sounds like giving up to me, losing your patience and not truly believing He'll deliver you, like you did in the beginning. And when you lose your patience, you'll end up losing your confidence and then your faith... The bible says that God is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him. Also that He'll avenge His own elect who cry unto Him day and night. You might not pray as earnestly in the latter time of your sickness, as you did in the beginning, but you still keep praying till something is revealed to you one way or the other...
Is there anything that you have ever prayed for that God didn't say yes, didn't say no, didn't say anything at all, but to date, the thing you have prayed for remains un-delivered, un-healed, simply not done?
Anyone can answer this, but want Marie to answer this for sure-- in light of her post.
Praxeas
09-14-2013, 01:51 AM
I am really having a difficult time rationalizing how a person who is filled with the Holy Ghost AND living a life of holiness can be diagnosed with Major Depression, have suicidal thoughts, sadness that seems to re-occur repeatedly... how can I be witnessing this in a person who I KNOW is saved?
Really-- how is it possible?
Is this person maybe not even saved?
How do you reach someone seemingly trapped in this cycle?
chemical
Amanah
09-14-2013, 05:10 AM
I know a woman who God uses often to minister in the gifts of the Spirit, and yet she suffers from anxiety attacks and takes meds for anxiety. When I was younger I was judgemental towards the weaknesses of others. I have since learned to be compassionate and to realize that we are becoming and have not yet arrived.
MarieA27
09-14-2013, 07:57 AM
Is there anything that you have ever prayed for that God didn't say yes, didn't say no, didn't say anything at all, but to date, the thing you have prayed for remains un-delivered, un-healed, simply not done?
Anyone can answer this, but want Marie to answer this for sure-- in light of her post.
I was about to say yes, about the various things that I'm praying for and have prayed for that haven't yet been answered, until I remembered some things... The answer to this would be yes and no. For the times that my prayers weren't answered one way or the other, were always the times that I've been praying for something and have slacked off in asking and let whatever come, what may, so I know where the failure lied, the failure is on me, and my lack of diligently going after Him, not God. I won't sit there and make excuses for myself, so I can feel justified in not going after Him, saying that maybe He just didn't want me to have it, or it wasn't meant to be...
There are other times, when I have been praying for things for awhile, and they have yet to be fulfilled completely, but along the way, there will be encouragement given, God would give me a scripture, work through someone, give me small victories along the way and many other things, enough to know that He's with me, and that He'll bless me, if I'll stay faithful. And by me being diligent, faithful, and taking the bible at its word, believing in God's promises, blessings have came to past, so I know from experience...
And I have enough experience from this, to know that if I continue, God would bring me out every time. It's like the scriptures said in Romans 5:1-5, that tribulation brings forth patience, patience, experience, and experience, hope.
MarieA27
09-14-2013, 08:03 AM
When it comes to this issue, there always seems to be two extremes on both sides, where one is jumping on and berating the other, and putting them down for not having enough faith, or not having as much faith as they think they should have, not having compassion, not considering that everyone is different, and at different walks with God, and the other is just telling you to stop asking God, and just let God deliver you if He wants to, whenever He wants to, (if he wants too) and in the mean time, I'll get deliverance from somewhere else, while jumping on the other who wants to have faith, and acting as if they're stupid or dumb for wanting to believe in God, instead of taking the easy deliverance route that they just took...
Evang.Benincasa
09-14-2013, 09:39 AM
When it comes to this issue, there always seems to be two extremes on both sides, where one is jumping on and berating the other, and putting them down for not having enough faith, or not having as much faith as they think they should have, not having compassion, not considering that everyone is different, and at different walks with God, and the other is just telling you to stop asking God, and just let God deliver you if He wants to, whenever He wants to, (if he wants too) and in the mean time, I'll get deliverance from somewhere else, while jumping on the other who wants to have faith, and acting as if they're stupid or dumb for wanting to believe in God, instead of taking the easy deliverance route that they just took...
:highfive
Evang.Benincasa
09-14-2013, 09:51 AM
I know a woman who God uses often to minister in the gifts of the Spirit, and yet she suffers from anxiety attacks and takes meds for anxiety. When I was younger I was judgemental towards the weaknesses of others. I have since learned to be compassionate and to realize that we are becoming and have not yet arrived.
Now, before I say anything I want you to know I'm not coming against your friend, or making a comparison with what I'm going to say and your friend.
What I find interesting is that in ancient cultures shamans, gurus, sadhus, and in voodoo, drugs were used to predict the future, present, and tell people of their past. Oracle of Delphi sat on top of a natural gas spring of ethylene gas, some scholars believe this is what induced her into a trance. Marie Sabina also know as the Saint Mother of the Sacred Mushrooms. She was visited by the CIA because they wanted to learn more about how she extracted her knowledge. Adulos Huxley had written a book which he titled "Doors of Perception" this book would have its name borrowed for a rock band called the "Doors." What is interesting is that men like Huxley, Leary, and Richard Alpert (now known as Ram Dass) first looked at the religious aspects of Lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD). Huxley was on to something when he presented the idea of opening doors of perception. Opening up doors to allow spirits to enter in, whether you like it or not.
Amanah
09-14-2013, 12:20 PM
Now, before I say anything I want you to know I'm not coming against your friend, or making a comparison with what I'm going to say and your friend.
What I find interesting is that in ancient cultures shamans, gurus, sadhus, and in voodoo, drugs were used to predict the future, present, and tell people of their past. Oracle of Delphi sat on top of a natural gas spring of ethylene gas, some scholars believe this is what induced her into a trance. Marie Sabina also know as the Saint Mother of the Sacred Mushrooms. She was visited by the CIA because they wanted to learn more about how she extracted her knowledge. Adulos Huxley had written a book which he titled "Doors of Perception" this book would have its name borrowed for a rock band called the "Doors." What is interesting is that men like Huxley, Leary, and Richard Alpert (now known as Ram Dass) first looked at the religious aspects of Lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD). Huxley was on to something when he presented the idea of opening doors of perception. Opening up doors to allow spirits to enter in, whether you like it or not.
I believe this is true with hallucinogens, not sure it applies to all meds
Evang.Benincasa
09-14-2013, 01:18 PM
I believe this is true with hallucinogens, not sure it applies to all meds
Digoxin is used to treat certain heart rhythm problems (atrial fibrillation). Also used to treat heart failure. Yet, Digoxin can cause delirium and other psychotropic side effects (eg, depression, visual hallucinations) even at therapeutic levels in older persons. This is just one medication which isn't a psychotropic medication, but has psychotropic side effects. If you research all the side effects of these powerful medications, and add them all up if the patient is talking three to nine different ones, you could just imagine what these people are having to live through who are under the bondage to take these meds.
Sasha
09-14-2013, 03:06 PM
2 Timothy 1:7 sound mind means sound mind.
Now please forgive me in advanced, but I think the problem is that most of you people believe that personal experience validates the Bible. Therefore if you are bipolar and believe you have the Holy Ghost and still continue being bipolar, then the Bible needs to be modified for your personal experience? Because evidently the scripture has to be interpreted a different way because obviously Joe Foofoofnick has to have the Holy Ghost? How about Joe doesn't have the Holy Ghost, how about if his lack of soundness of mind is do to Joe not even being saved? Just saying.
;)
Well, then all the mentally retarded folks are just outta luck right?
Alzheimer's disease and Huntington's....nope, not spirit filled folks!
Traumatic brain injuries and strokes? Can't have a sound mind with those either!
Sound mind means a sound mind...
RandyWayne
09-14-2013, 03:09 PM
Well, then all the mentally retarded folks are just outta luck right?
Alzheimer's disease and Huntington's....nope, not spirit filled folks!
Traumatic brain injuries and strokes? Can't have a sound mind with those either!
Sound mind means a sound mind...
Obviously there are side effects to most (all?) of these drugs but EB has probably never been around a line of patients who STOPPED taking them. My wife has anywhere from one to several arrested a week (and often daily) in her store when they go on rampages.
Evang.Benincasa
09-14-2013, 03:20 PM
Obviously there are side effects to most (all?) of these drugs but EB has probably never been around a line of patients who STOPPED taking them. My wife has anywhere from one to several arrested a week (and often daily) in her store when they go on rampages.
I know people who are no longer on their psychotropics, from children, to adults. Children who have parents who weren't even Christians, but just going through the information that I steered them towards. They changed their child's diet, and have great results. Weaning people off of psychotropic is like getting someone off of any hard drug. You don't think crack (freebase) and heroin are strong drugs, yet I have seen men, and women get delivered from these drugs in the church and out of the church. It happens, and I think someone should give these people a high five. Unless you are getting a kickback from Pfizer.
Sasha
09-14-2013, 03:21 PM
The brain is an organ which can fail us. Since our personality, consciousness, and central nervous system is stored there, when it's sick, it affects our mood, behaviors, memory, and even our physical body.
I have heard Holy Ghost filled people swear until my ears were on fire. I have seen them hit their loved ones. I have seen them cry about imaginary things. It's heartbreaking when someone's mind is the target of illness, but like any other organ that is sick, meds often can help along with prayer.
Evang.Benincasa
09-14-2013, 03:24 PM
The brain is an organ which can fail us. Since our personality, consciousness, and central nervous system is stored there, when it's sick, it affects our mood, behaviors, memory, and even our physical body.
I have heard Holy Ghost filled people swear until my ears were on fire. I have seen them hit their loved ones. I have seen them cry about imaginary things. It's heartbreaking when someone's mind is the target of illness, but like any other organ that is sick, meds often can help along with prayer.
I thought Jesus said that a good tree cannot produce bad fruit?
Whatever. :)
Sasha
09-14-2013, 04:01 PM
I thought Jesus said that a good tree cannot produce bad fruit?
Whatever. :)
I don't think that verse has anything to do with what I said. If it did, it would mean that Christians cannot have sickness in their bodies ever.
Do you understand that our emotions are sourced from chemicals?
Evang.Benincasa
09-14-2013, 07:04 PM
I don't think that verse has anything to do with what I said. If it did, it would mean that Christians cannot have sickness in their bodies ever.
Do you understand that our emotions are sourced from chemicals?
Yes, I totally understand, but do you also know that the idea of a chemical imbalance needing medication to correct it is a myth? Please by all means please post the test which measures the perfect chemical balance that an adult must have, the chemical balance a young child must have. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10qCZATR4PQ
Abiding Now
09-14-2013, 08:03 PM
SOMETIMES, when I don't get my morning coffee, :hypercoffeeI become chemically unbalanced.:tantrum
At least, that's what I have been told.
:happydance
Evang.Benincasa
09-14-2013, 08:07 PM
SOMETIMES, when I don't get my morning coffee, :hypercoffeeI become chemically unbalanced.:tantrum
At least, that's what I have been told.
:happydance
That's called withdrawal. :heeheehee
Abiding Now
09-14-2013, 08:16 PM
That's called withdrawal. :heeheehee
See, the thing is, as long as I have my morning dose of the drug caffeine, I don't suffer from withdrawal and folks around me have a happy day.
:heeheehee
Evang.Benincasa
09-14-2013, 08:17 PM
See, the thing is, as long as I have my morning dose of the drug caffeine, I don't suffer from withdrawal and folks around me have a happy day.
:heeheehee
But of course.
Well, then all the mentally retarded folks are just outta luck right?
Alzheimer's disease and Huntington's....nope, not spirit filled folks!
Traumatic brain injuries and strokes? Can't have a sound mind with those either!
Sound mind means a sound mind...
Good points!
Evang.Benincasa
09-14-2013, 08:33 PM
Good points!
So when Paul told the Evangelist Timothy that the Spirit of God wasn't a spirit of fear, but miraculous power, love, to have self control over your mind he was wrong?
So when Paul told the Evangelist Timothy that the Spirit of God wasn't a spirit of fear, but miraculous power, love, to have self control over your mind he was wrong?
Yes! Duh. :heeheehee
EB, you are impossible!
houston
09-14-2013, 08:38 PM
So when Paul told the Evangelist Timothy that the Spirit of God wasn't a spirit of fear, but miraculous power, love, to have self control over your mind he was wrong?
Stick with KJV!
POOOOWER!!!! LOOOOOOOVE-AHHHH!!! and a SOOOOUND MIND!!
Evang.Benincasa
09-14-2013, 08:41 PM
Stick with KJV!
POOOOWER!!!! LOOOOOOOVE-AHHHH!!! and a SOOOOUND MIND!!
Just like Jesus used. :thumbsup
Evang.Benincasa
09-14-2013, 08:42 PM
Yes! Duh. :heeheehee
EB, you are impossible!
:heeheehee
:heeheehee
I just told you what you were begging to hear. Now you can go your way.
Evang.Benincasa
09-14-2013, 09:10 PM
I just told you what you were begging to hear. Now you can go your way.
http://images.wikia.com/thebiglebowski/images/7/7a/The-big-lebowski-reunion-animated-gifs-15.gif
Evang.Benincasa
09-14-2013, 09:25 PM
Hey, imagine if instead of advocating dangerous mind medications we were advocating electroshock treatment and lobotomy. Oh, can't forget snake pits, throwing the hysterical into a pit filled with snakes. A man by the name of Howard Dully (http://www.npr.org/2005/11/16/5014080/my-lobotomy-howard-dullys-journey) has a book about his childhood and how his stepmother had him get a lobotomy, stepmother needed help with the young man's discilpline. If you all have the time (which I know you do) please look at this http://www.ssristories.com/index.php
Evang.Benincasa
09-14-2013, 10:25 PM
http://psychrights.org/articles/081130JanneLarssonpsychiatricdrugssuicide.pdf
allstate1
09-14-2013, 11:25 PM
I think EB should have his license revoked and banned from preaching, teaching, evangelising or whatever it is he calls himself doing!
houston
09-15-2013, 06:35 AM
I think EB should have his license revoked and banned from preaching, teaching, evangelising or whatever it is he calls himself doing!
With 447 posts... Are you even relevant to this site?
allstate1
09-15-2013, 07:11 AM
Well with a bipolar wife and a bipolar 13 year old son I think I have more insight on this topic than others!
allstate1
09-15-2013, 07:17 AM
Not to mention 41 years in the UPC and 6 immediate family members who are currently pastors maybe more than you realize Houston. You do know God gave us two ears and one mouth for a reason?
jediwill83
09-15-2013, 07:41 AM
Look I have held off publicly posting on this topic cause I know its a sensitive issue to alot of people and even to me.I will say this....there is no one size fits all solution to mental illness and I have found that His grace is sufficient....whenever He doesnt take problems out of my life thats what I have learned....He holds me close and walks through those troubling times with me and I wouldnt take anything for it.
houston
09-15-2013, 07:43 AM
Well with a bipolar wife and a bipolar 13 year old son I think I have more insight on this topic than others!
Without quoting EB there was no idea to what you were responding to.
Sasha
09-15-2013, 04:46 PM
Yes, I totally understand, but do you also know that the idea of a chemical imbalance needing medication to correct it is a myth? Please by all means please post the test which measures the perfect chemical balance that an adult must have, the chemical balance a young child must have. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10qCZATR4PQ
I didn't watch that video but I didn't have to. I'm not sure why you think chemical imbalances are myths, but if that's the case, then diabetes and Parkinson's are made up diseases, just to name a couple that are major illnesses that happen to take people's lives.
There are over 1000 chemicals and hormones in our bodies. I didn't put them there, God did. If any of them are off, it can cause major problems.
For instance, if you don't have enough potassium or you have way too much, your heart will stop. Ammonia in the brain can cause you to act strange and have memory problems. Too much creatinine means your kidneys are failing. If your glucose is low, you risk going into a coma.
As for tests for chemicals, haven't you ever had bloodwork? There are 'norms' listed for each test. I can't believe you didn't know that.
Sasha
09-15-2013, 04:47 PM
So when Paul told the Evangelist Timothy that the Spirit of God wasn't a spirit of fear, but miraculous power, love, to have self control over your mind he was wrong?
Are you denying that people suffer from dementia and diseases that cause dementia? Do you think they are faking it?
jediwill83
09-15-2013, 04:51 PM
Ok that which is flesh is flesh but that which is spirit is spirit....dont confuse the two....there are all kinds of imbalances that can happen with hormones and chemicals in the body that have a MAJOR effect on behavior feelings and moods.
Sasha
09-15-2013, 05:58 PM
Ok that which is flesh is flesh but that which is spirit is spirit....dont confuse the two....there are all kinds of imbalances that can happen with hormones and chemicals in the body that have a MAJOR effect on behavior feelings and moods.
Correct. Every emotion we have is based on chemicals. That's why we can't CHOOSE to be happy or sad or angry. There is usually a trigger mechanism.
In order to sleep, certain chemicals have to be present. Often times, people who have chronic sleeplessness have a chemical imbalance that prevents sleep or good enough sleep.
The chemicals in our bodies are directly responsible for how it behaves, from monitoring our hearts, movements of our extremities, digestion, and even pain.
When we are sick, doctors perform routine bloodwork because there are chemicals that, if too low or too high, indicate what is wrong or they are causing what is wrong. Ignore those numbers and you could die or wish you had.
Myths. People don't need to have a three digit IQ to understand what I just said above. If someone doesn't like that we have chemicals in our bodies, talk to God about it. He should have made us more perfect.
The body is a biological machine. Sin has effected this machine and as a result it is fallen and doesn't work properly. It is still subject to sinful desires, aging, disease, atrophy, and death. Although one receives the Holy Ghost into their "spirit", it doesn't "change" the body. The body can still have various genetic and hormonal issues. Some of these affect the chemical levels in the brain causing depression, suicidal thoughts, sadness, etc.
We tend to think that it is purely emotional and immaterial. But fluctuating or insufficient chemical levels in the brain can bring on these symptoms. It's an infirmity of the flesh.
Excellent post.
Evang.Benincasa
11-26-2013, 07:27 PM
I think EB should have his license revoked and banned from preaching, teaching, evangelising or whatever it is he calls himself doing!
Well with a bipolar wife and a bipolar 13 year old son I think I have more insight on this topic than others!
Not to mention 41 years in the UPC and 6 immediate family members who are currently pastors maybe more than you realize Houston. You do know God gave us two ears and one mouth for a reason?
God also gave us two eyes to read what has already been posted in a forum before we make a comment?
You think?
If you had taken the time to read what was already posted you would of seen that I am married to someone who had dealt with the same issues you are currently dealing with. I hope you try in the future to respond to posts instead of reacting to them.
May the Lord Jesus bless you and your family in a mighty way. :)
You are talking about bipolar, that is what my wife suffered with her entire life. She had a really bad situation which had her go to a UPCI church which was pastored by Brother Wayne Rooks, and Brother Bobby Stewart. When she received the Holy Ghost with evidence of speaking in other tongues she was healed and never had another episode. Never, we have two beautiful girls and my wife has been through a lot since she as (an evangelist's wife) has been in the church, but NEVER has had an episode with the issues of bipolar. I will be praying for your friend, keep praying with him, and telling him he can do it through the power of Jesus Christ.
Evang.Benincasa
11-26-2013, 08:08 PM
I didn't watch that video but I didn't have to. I'm not sure why you think chemical imbalances are myths, but if that's the case, then diabetes and Parkinson's are made up diseases, just to name a couple that are major illnesses that happen to take people's lives.
There are over 1000 chemicals and hormones in our bodies. I didn't put them there, God did. If any of them are off, it can cause major problems.
For instance, if you don't have enough potassium or you have way too much, your heart will stop. Ammonia in the brain can cause you to act strange and have memory problems. Too much creatinine means your kidneys are failing. If your glucose is low, you risk going into a coma.
As for tests for chemicals, haven't you ever had bloodwork? There are 'norms' listed for each test. I can't believe you didn't know that.
I understand all the tests you mentioned in your above posts yet in psychiatry there are no tests for a chemical imbalance of the brain, and none are given. Yet, what psychiatry does do is observe the patient, and through observation is the diagnosis made.
Parkinson's and diabetes are not diagnosed through mere questions and answers of how "do you feel about yourself" but real objective science. A patient may have blood or urine samples taken, but they're not taken to see if you have a chemical imbalance of the brain, but if other medical problems are the cause of the patients issues. Psychological evaluation, and mood charting, then going to Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, is what will make the final determination for how the patient is dealt with, not objective medicine but with subjective observation. if a person is all the issues you stated above too much or too little potassium, ammonia in the blood, high levels of creatinine, or low glucose, you aren't prescribed Antipsychotic drugs. There's a big difference in having hypokalemia and someone having a major depressive disorder.
obriencp
11-26-2013, 08:13 PM
i'd like to thank Aquila and others for sharing very personal details. Aquila, Sasha, and others obviously get it and are able to show compassion even in disagreement. However, it saddens me to see how 'evang' Benincasa and a few others are so very cold and hurtful in their responses.
I don't doubt God can heal.
I don't doubt that He healed E.Bs wife
There is no doubt to anyone who has read this thread that God Can heal. But it seems we're trying to deal with this question... what if He doesn't? We cannot fully understand God's will, His Mind, or His timing. If God doesn't heal it isn't always because of a lack of faith.
Yes, i'm new and have few posts so I may not even "be relevant" to this site, but shame on those have blasted others without even really understanding what is being said.
Evang.Benincasa
11-26-2013, 08:14 PM
talk to God about it. He should have made us more perfect.
So, if you talk to God (I would assume by praying) can He correct the imbalance?
If you drink a Red Bull and chase it down with a Mountain Dew you will have a chemical imbalance, if you smoke a cigarette you will have a chemical imbalance, if a child drinks a Red Bull chased down with a Mountain Dew they will have to be peeled off the ceiling, but not treated with Antipsychotic drugs.
Evang.Benincasa
11-26-2013, 08:19 PM
i'd like to thank Aquila and others for sharing very personal details. Aquila, Sasha, and others obviously get it and are able to show compassion even in disagreement. However, it saddens me to see how 'evang' Benincasa and a few others are so very cold and hurtful in their responses.
I don't doubt God can heal.
I don't doubt that He healed E.Bs wife
There is no doubt to anyone who has read this thread that God Can heal. But it seems we're trying to deal with this question... what if He doesn't? We cannot fully understand God's will, His Mind, or His timing. If God doesn't heal it isn't always because of a lack of faith.
Yes, i'm new and have few posts so I may not even "be relevant" to this site, but shame on those have blasted others without even really understanding what is being said.
Does that also go for you too?
You see, blasting can be done in many ways, one can be passive about their blasting like singling out someone as the bad machine, stick in the wheel, or as you posted "hurtful in their response." I'm not trying to hurt anyone, yet I'm not trying to water down what I'm trying to post either. My focus is on that God can and will heal, yet why give up, and why give up on those who want to be free from the torment of Antipsychotic drugs?
You are relevant and thank you for your thoughts. :)
obriencp
11-26-2013, 08:55 PM
Very pleasant, thank you.
Many of us want to focus on God healing us, but in light of those trying to answer the "what if He doesn't" question, you, as well as others, were very hurtful. I read/understood a very negative tone coming out in many of the responses toward those who acknowledge that mental illnesses are an illness of the brain (chemical or otherwise).
It seems that you were implying that if God didn't heal someone that somehow man was at fault. Is this true? If that is not what you meant, then surely you need to learn how to better explain yourself.
There may be instances when God can't move because of unbelief, but there are certainly instances when God chooses not to heal and it is NOT because of our unbelief. Different people will react differently if God chooses not to heal. Some will try to place blame, some will pray harder, and some may even turn to medication. We shouldn't judge peoples faith as weak simply because they opt for alternative means to cope; IE medication, counselling, meditation, etc.
Just because people opt for these alternative means does not mean they have lost faith or given up on God. It simply means they have accepted the fact that they cannot understand God's will and are coping in the meanwhile.
Evang.Benincasa
11-26-2013, 09:56 PM
Very pleasant, thank you.
Many of us want to focus on God healing us, but in light of those trying to answer the "what if He doesn't" question, you, as well as others, were very hurtful. I read/understood a very negative tone coming out in many of the responses toward those who acknowledge that mental illnesses are an illness of the brain (chemical or otherwise).
It seems that you were implying that if God didn't heal someone that somehow man was at fault. Is this true? If that is not what you meant, then surely you need to learn how to better explain yourself.
There may be instances when God can't move because of unbelief, but there are certainly instances when God chooses not to heal and it is NOT because of our unbelief. Different people will react differently if God chooses not to heal. Some will try to place blame, some will pray harder, and some may even turn to medication. We shouldn't judge peoples faith as weak simply because they opt for alternative means to cope; IE medication, counselling, meditation, etc.
Just because people opt for these alternative means does not mean they have lost faith or given up on God. It simply means they have accepted the fact that they cannot understand God's will and are coping in the meanwhile.
With all due respect, it is either I posted the way you claim, or I didn't, "seeming" to be this, or that, doesn't mean anything to the poster. That is your perception, and observations of the postings which causes you to say it "seems" that a poster was "implying?" That all in itself doesn't mean the poster wasn't clear, or needed to be any clearer than he or she already was, but it usually ends up being that the perception of the other poster is viewed through, either A the need to be right, or B, an offence due to the contents of the post.
Yet it could even not be either A or B but that the other poster is just a jerk. :heeheehee
Not saying you are mind you, yet to be clear in what I am trying to post, I must say that I do believe God can heal, didn't know I posted that people just need to pray harder if they are not healed (if you can find the post please direct me to it) also I'd rather not view God through some philosophical lens where He is a last resort, or that He is as useful as digging a basement for a house with a Dixie cup spoon. Not saying you posted that way, but just trying to make myself clear on what I believe concerning God's healing ability.
God can heal.
Yet, I'm just leaning towards not focusing on Him not healing, I usually get better results that way, also it tends to encourage the people you are praying for if you happen to build their faith as you are dealing with their situation. I don't walk into a hospital room telling individuals to make themselves comfortable with their loved one dying, that's usually not why they called me in the first place. I tell them let's pray for the optimum outcome.
The whole issue of mental illness is one that most times doesn't have to be prayed over. Now is that what you are calling a harsh statement? That's my opinion, and therefore I'm entitled to my opinion just like you are entitled to your's. The mental illness situation in this country is unprecedented, and Eli Lilly and Company are benefiting, more than the patients.
Now I have had cases of individuals who have gone off their psychotropics with the help of their doctor, and have NEVER had another episode. Some of these are people who aren't even Christians, but they went off their psychotropics, with no problems. My wife had an experience with Jesus Christ at a UPCI altar, and was filled with the Holy Ghost with not one recurrence of her issues.
So, with all that, what I am trying to say is that you can be freed from the dependency of strong antipsychotic drugs. That's what I'm trying to say.
Thank you for your comments. :)
Esaias
11-27-2013, 06:24 AM
With all due respect, it is either I posted the way you claim, or I didn't, "seeming" to be this, or that, doesn't mean anything to the poster. That is your perception, and observations of the postings which causes you to say it "seems" that a poster was "implying?" That all in itself doesn't mean the poster wasn't clear, or needed to be any clearer than he or she already was, but it usually ends up being that the perception of the other poster is viewed through, either A the need to be right, or B, an offence due to the contents of the post.
Yet it could even not be either A or B but that the other poster is just a jerk. :heeheehee
Not saying you are mind you, yet to be clear in what I am trying to post, I must say that I do believe God can heal, didn't know I posted that people just need to pray harder if they are not healed (if you can find the post please direct me to it) also I'd rather not view God through some philosophical lens where He is a last resort, or that He is as useful as digging a basement for a house with a Dixie cup spoon. Not saying you posted that way, but just trying to make myself clear on what I believe concerning God's healing ability.
God can heal.
Yet, I'm just leaning towards not focusing on Him not healing, I usually get better results that way, also it tends to encourage the people you are praying for if you happen to build their faith as you are dealing with their situation. I don't walk into a hospital room telling individuals to make themselves comfortable with their loved one dying, that's usually not why they called me in the first place. I tell them let's pray for the optimum outcome.
The whole issue of mental illness is one that most times doesn't have to be prayed over. Now is that what you are calling a harsh statement? That's my opinion, and therefore I'm entitled to my opinion just like you are entitled to your's. The mental illness situation in this country is unprecedented, and Eli Lilly and Company are benefiting, more than the patients.
Now I have had cases of individuals who have gone off their psychotropics with the help of their doctor, and have NEVER had another episode. Some of these are people who aren't even Christians, but they went off their psychotropics, with no problems. My wife had an experience with Jesus Christ at a UPCI altar, and was filled with the Holy Ghost with not one recurrence of her issues.
So, with all that, what I am trying to say is that you can be freed from the dependency of strong antipsychotic drugs. That's what I'm trying to say.
Thank you for your comments. :)
I find most believe 'God can heal'. The question of faith however is to determine that 'God WILL heal'.
And that often seems to require 'the gift of faith' (1 Cor 12) to believe for a healing in a specific instance.
jmo.
Evang.Benincasa
11-27-2013, 06:48 AM
I find most believe 'God can heal'. The question of faith however is to determine that 'God WILL heal'.
And that often seems to require 'the gift of faith' (1 Cor 12) to believe for a healing in a specific instance.
jmo.
Agreed. :)
MarieA27
11-27-2013, 07:22 AM
I find most believe 'God can heal'. The question of faith however is to determine that 'God WILL heal'.
And that often seems to require 'the gift of faith' (1 Cor 12) to believe for a healing in a specific instance.
jmo.
So you need to have the gift of faith to be able to believe that God will heal you in certain, or even dire situations?
Sasha
11-27-2013, 08:30 AM
While I don't agree that drugs are the answer to anything and everything, some need them while others seek them.
I have a son who has a high probability of becoming schizophrenic due to his genetic disorder. He is currently not on medication and we won't claim it, however, we can't help but watch his behaviors and hope for the best in his future.
Aquila
11-27-2013, 08:35 AM
I believe that we are tri-part beings. We have a body (biological form), soul (mind/psyche), and spirit (living essence). Problems can exist in any one of these parts and thereby affect the others. For example, someone with a genetic or chemical imbalance in the brain has a problem in the "body". However, this also affects the "soul" (or mind). Fixing this can be an issue of diet, medication, or divine healing. Problems rooted in the "soul" (mind) can be resolved through counseling and renewing the mind in accordance to Scripture. Divine healing is also affective for the mind when employed. The disposition of the body and/or the soul can greatly affect the wellbeing of the spirit, though it doesn't alter or change the spirit.
That's my take on it.
obriencp
11-27-2013, 10:47 AM
EB, thanks for clarifying your position and replying as you did.
Evang.Benincasa
11-27-2013, 03:15 PM
While I don't agree that drugs are the answer to anything and everything, some need them while others seek them.
I have a son who has a high probability of becoming schizophrenic due to his genetic disorder. He is currently not on medication and we won't claim it, however, we can't help but watch his behaviors and hope for the best in his future.
Sister please forgive me, but are you referring to the enzyme COMT gene?
Sasha
11-27-2013, 03:24 PM
Sister please forgive me, but are you referring to the enzyme COMT gene?
No sir. My son has a rare genetic condition that's only recorded in about 100 individuals. I will PM you with the info if you like.
Sasha
11-27-2013, 03:25 PM
I believe that we are tri-part beings. We have a body (biological form), soul (mind/psyche), and spirit (living essence). Problems can exist in any one of these parts and thereby affect the others. For example, someone with a genetic or chemical imbalance in the brain has a problem in the "body". However, this also affects the "soul" (or mind). Fixing this can be an issue of diet, medication, or divine healing. Problems rooted in the "soul" (mind) can be resolved through counseling and renewing the mind in accordance to Scripture. Divine healing is also affective for the mind when employed. The disposition of the body and/or the soul can greatly affect the wellbeing of the spirit, though it doesn't alter or change the spirit.
That's my take on it.
Aquila, that's a great take!
Esaias
11-27-2013, 03:57 PM
So you need to have the gift of faith to be able to believe that God will heal you in certain, or even dire situations?
Not what I said. I said 'and that often requires' etc etc.
Not 'and that always requires' etc etc.
Evang.Benincasa
11-27-2013, 06:44 PM
No sir. My son has a rare genetic condition that's only recorded in about 100 individuals. I will PM you with the info if you like.
Please
diakonos
04-20-2023, 06:48 AM
you know what i'm reading? I am reading a lot of god doesn't always heal, but my question is, why do you all believe that he doesn't always heal?
Is it his fault?
Is it your fault?
Is it just your fate?
Any answers? :highfive
🔥🔥🔥
Evang.Benincasa
05-22-2023, 09:32 PM
2013?
Good grief :lol
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